Slow Horses, Wayward, and The Hack. With guests Ruth Bradley and Christopher Chung

23:00Christopher Chung:I mean, I think I've been bullied into it. I don't know if I can do this. Yes, so Boyd, he's going to watch it for next week. Come on, pull your finger out, Boyd. It's good. It's good. I really enjoyed it. I mean, I enjoyed... Now, I forget them. It was the... What was the one? So, it was the... So, we had Dexter, and then the one where he came back was... The wintry one was called Dexter... Was there some New Blood? Do you know what? You're absolutely right. New Blood was that one. It was the... That was the wintry sort of like... Sort of sequel, legacy sequel type thing. And then Original Sin was the Paddy Gibson one.

23:27Oh, right. Yeah, of course. That's the one we didn't like. So, New Blood liked. Original Sin didn't like. Resurrection, really good. I thought it was great. Really enjoyed it. How many episodes? Is it in total? it's like 9 or 10 oh please boy that's one evening for you so you know you'll be fine a mere 10 hours says the woman who watched one episode of Bake Off boy oh my god do you know what you're not going to poke this bear shots fired shots fired yes the amount of TV I'm watching every week yeah carry on anyway I enjoyed it a lot I thought it was good Uma Thurman's in it Peter Dinklage's in it it's there's an abundance of serial killers in this one so it takes a slightly different time his eyes lit up there I love an abundance of serial killers in a TV show.

24:07Yeah, it was fun. I had a good time with it. I don't know that I agreed with our listener that it was like the best Dexter ever, but I thought it was... We don't need to do the spoiler special now. You've covered it. Yeah, done. No, no, there are many wonderful things for us to discuss. Tune in to hear them wanging on about it. Yeah, exactly that. That's what else we've been watching. However, however, as much as I enjoyed the finale of Dexter Resurrection, I'll tell you what I didn't enjoy. What? The finale of Star Trek Strange New Worlds. Now, I have extolled the virtues of this particular...

24:32Well, it's finished now. It's done. Well, this particular series is coming back. But I thought this was a disappointing series. It started well, and then it kind of plateaued. And then I felt it just took a few missteps in close succession. And there was this one episode called The Terrarium. It was in succession as well. It was in succession as well. There was one episode called The Terrarium, and I was like, oh my God, this has been done before. And I think, and even the final episode as well, I was like, so many of these things feel very familiar to me. Like, Star Trek has been here before.

25:00like the Terrarium is like an Enemy Mine episode it's like we've seen this shit before and it just it all felt a little bit stale and I just I couldn't really bring myself to care that's not saying I think it's a bad show I just think they had an unfortunate run of quite middling episodes which made up most of this season so I was listening to what you just said but just a correction say I said we're done I meant was done a pleasure okay good I enjoy that level of grammatical pedantry so yeah I'm here for it so yeah Strangely Welles didn't love as much the finale of Foundation aired now we touched on this on Pilot Plus so I'm not going to get too into it I'm still trying to maybe possibly think about doing a spoiler special for Foundation you definitely should which I really should because it's a lot to unpack get Helen on so yeah she'll love it we'll see maybe Boyd Boyd have you seen any more?

25:46no okay fine why not Boyd? why? but look there's the incentive of doing it with Helen so yeah that's it come on you lovely Helen see so now this weekend if you can watch all 10 episodes of Dexter Resurrection and then watch all a Foundation season three and then we'll pick it up next week that's a promise boys committed it's not going to happen no because

26:04Christopher Chung:Auster's playing Man City on Sunday yes that won't take long I know for a fact that you can do both at once no I've seen you do it well go to football watch and watch and watch Foundation do you know what you probably could do that but I've seen you watch two TV shows at once oh yeah I've done that that happens all the time that's crazy that's not good for your brain I'm going to the Auster game I can't take my laptop and sit there in the stands you could actually I probably could I'm sure there'll be boring bits like the bits between the first whistle in the last one so that's quite tedious so you can watch something then Do you sit in a fancy box?

26:30No Alright He can't do that in the stands Club level

26:34Christopher Chung:I'll tell you who I sat very close to last weekend Who? Romeo Beckham He was in front of me in the queue and then Very good His mum's documentary seems to be on Netflix Surely he has a box I think he does have a box yes he was walking up in front of me to his box Then he came to hang out with the riffraff aka Boyd I'm assuming he won't be in his mum's documentary. Oh no, I'm sure he will be. Romeo. You're thinking of Brooklyn. Oh, I'm confused. They're all... You know what? The one moment of him trying to connect with popular culture. I tried so hard. I thought, oh yeah, I know a thing about these people.

27:09Christopher Chung:It's good that you're vaguely engaged with it. Yeah, yeah. You're in the ballpark. I know there's a Beckham rift. Yeah, no, Brooklyn is the one who's the black sheep. Yes, okay. But Romeo is absolutely still fully on board with the Beckhams. Okay. Okay, well, fair enough. Don't come to me for your Beckham knowledge. I think that's what we've learned from that, 100%. Okay, that is what we've been watching. So we're going to skip. I'm so sorry for everyone, but we're going to skip the listener question this week because we have a lot going on runtime-wise. James just said he doesn't care anymore about what you guys are.

27:37So I had to just, you know, agree with what he said. Hey, hey, Pilot Plus exists. I'm just saying, feel free to subscribe and then we'll answer as many questions as you like. But for this week and possibly a couple of weeks, we have an abundance of guests. So you're going to have to bear with us. In fact, let's have this week's first guest. And it is none other than Slow Horse's Roddy Ho, the homeister uh christopher chung himself uh roddy who is the narcissist incel hacker at slough house and he's been generally brilliant since season one he takes center stage in this fifth season which sees him in a kind of hitman's crosshairs and we sent our very own hitman boydy to chat to

28:11Christopher Chung:chris about hot rod hello christopher chung welcome to the pilot tv podcast thanks for having me where do we find you today where are you dialing in from on the zoom i'm in my house in london Oh, nice. A nice little corner of it. A nice little corner. A good contrast with the blue wall. I like it. Yeah, it's very nice. Very good. Now, are you prepared for season five of Slow Horses? I say that because particularly this season, it's all about you, isn't it? It's all about Roddy. There's no getting away from it. It makes me very anxious, actually. Does it? But it's been quite nice, like, you know, the first four seasons to be able to be kind of like within the story, but a little bit on the periphery.

28:58But having Roddy kind of be the first domino to tip in this season and everything, the chain reaction that happens around him has made me feel quite excited for people to see him in a different capacity, but also quite anxious because you get to see a little bit more of him.

29:15Christopher Chung:You do. Yeah, we see a lot more of him. um what when you first to go back to the beginning when when the show was first created and you know you got the role did you go to the books and read what how the books described roddy or did you kind of was that all in the script you took it from there i mean will's done such an excellent job of adapting mick's work and mick's novels are so cinematic in the way that he writes them they're so beautifully descriptive um i definitely went back um to the novels when I first landed Roddy, just to see how Mick had seen him and what he kind of infused him with.

29:53And the thing that was really apparent to me is the way that Mick writes Roddy's character is so defined and different to the other slow horses in that he uses a lot of internal monologue and how Roddy sees the world and everybody else is just living within Roddy's world. and I think what was really difficult with this season or what I kind of assumed would be very difficult this season would be how those internal monologues start to translate into actual dialogue within the series and Will's done a fantastic job with that and hopefully I did them justice, I did Roddy justice.

30:34Christopher Chung:Oh for sure, yeah. How do you think he does see the world then? What is his worldview i think i think he thinks that everybody is just playing around in his world and he's the master puppeteer you know everybody everything that he does is is right and justified and exactly the right call um he does no wrong so anytime that he's kind of called out or you know in season five you see a lot of delusion um but i i kind of see him as just being misunderstood because he marches to the beat of his own drum and everyone else just doesn't fall in line yeah yeah we we interviewed will smith for um a new issue of empire and he talked about how he just just just this whole idea of roddy having a girlfriend was the driving comedic force of this season how is that i don't understand why that's everybody's joke you know and i think that's why me and roddy are quite parallel in that in that uh space but i think he's just misunderstood, you know?

31:39I think Roddy having a girlfriend, a physical girlfriend this series, is an actual, a huge win for him because he learned from his past mistakes with the bot in season four, which I thought Will had done so particularly well to kind of integrate that storyline into season five. So if you kind of pick up the Easter eggs along the way, he's planting stuff the whole way along, which is really nice because I know these things because I have discussions with him going into the next season. But being able to play that was great.

32:13Christopher Chung:And Borgit, I mean, he's variously described. He's described all over the place as, you know, like an idiot and just various insulting, you know, epithets for him. What is that like to play such a character? On the one hand, people love him because he's so funny and he's so entertaining to watch. But on the other hand, he's an absolute, complete doofus. I think he's just a little bit oblivious, you know. It's really, it's, Roddy's like quite a hard line to tread because he, if you play him too obnoxious and too kind of acerbic the way, you know, the way that he could be played, it can come off as like a really unpalatable character on screen, especially by contrast with all the others.

33:02So it's about, for me, like finding the humanity and the empathy that I could imbue him with and being able to carry that through to in a way that also paid respect to what Mick had wrote originally but also whilst making it my own I think the thing that's really interesting about this season is that although the book in itself is more comedic than the others and a lot of that is driven through Roddy's you know do doofusness yeah but i don't think you know a lot of people have kind of uh commented that it's the silly season or that it's a bit you know it's a bit more farcical i would kind of combat that and saying it doesn't undercut the tension in any way i think what it does is really brilliantly balance the comedy and the the drama and all of the elements that we're so used to in slow horses but just levels them up again which every subsequent season that we've had so far

34:05Christopher Chung:has managed to do yeah i agree with that totally yeah it's still the whole genius of the show in a way is to marry that the kind of how funny it is to watch you guys when you're but and yet having incredibly tense proper espionage thriller stuff going on at the same time that perfect example is the opening sequence in in of season five and then moving after credits into to introducing Roddy into the season and I just think you know I when I watched the first edits of it my breath was taken away by like wow we're gonna open the season like that that's incredible and then immediately you flip it on its head and then you have this kind of more um oh this is the world that we that we know as well as an audience member these are the characters that we love so it's a really nice contrast I think Will's balanced it perfectly I think the comedy runs the whole way through it as well as the tension Yeah absolutely and the fact that you are kind of so front and centre in this season means that you get some great scenes I mean you always have great scenes with Gary but I particularly enjoyed when Kristen Scott Thomas and you are together in some of the later episodes I must have enjoyed to film those It was so exciting to me because I've wanted to work with Kristen for the whole time and it just never eventuated.

35:23And I'd already obviously read ahead through the novel, so I knew that this kind of setup would happen if we got to deliver season five, which we did, thankfully. So getting to work with her was a real, you know, it was like a sparring match, like putting those two characters in a room together and just seeing what comes out of it is just, you can see her wheels ticking over, like, what is this? Who is this person? what is he all about yeah is that deluded is he that is he really that ignorant but he is somewhat of a genius and i know this lambs told me um so she's trying to decipher like figure roddy out but if you if you watch roddy as well like he's got the lay of the land or what he thinks is the lay of the land throughout the whole interaction absolutely it's genius because she

36:11Christopher Chung:can't i feel like she's he's such a she's never made anyone like him before she really she's like Even from Slough House, like, she can't quite cope with it. Is he really this seemingly thick, right? I mean, I'm trying to be nice, but, you know, can he really be that in his own world? It's also in that much disbelief that there is someone that's, you know, in the service that is like this as well. Right. I think what was really lovely about working with Kristen was we knew that those scenes in particular we filmed at the end of the season and she came up to me at the unibase and said I'm very much looking forward to doing our scenes together it's going to be great acting and it was you know it was a lot of me like wow that's that's quite amazing that was quite amazing for me yeah fantastic yeah what what I mean we do see some some way into kind of Roddy's life as well.

37:11Christopher Chung:And what did you make of what we learn about him in this season, in terms of his gaming, his wielding of weaponry, his outfits? The whole thing builds a much more vivid picture of him. I think that's what's really nice about every season that we do. There's layers that the characters show to the audience as you get deeper into the show. And that's a real payoff as an audience member if you stuck with a show for so long that you get to really invest and see more of those characters blossom and see the layers throughout. And I don't think a lot of shows do that. What's really beautiful is, you know, our art department, our location, our costume, our makeup and hair.

37:57All of these departments that I get to work with as Roddy get to have conversations. I get to have conversations with them to discuss how we're going to deliver the kind of next level of Roddy for this next season. Me and Guy, who is our costume designer, we had a lot of conversations about the tracksuits that Roddy will wear this season. He had me try on about 20 different types of tracksuits before we finalized my hero tracksuit, which he had the fabric made for it. He had all like the zipper and all the trimmings were very specifically designed so that it looks really incredible in the nightclub sequence.

38:44That was a real joy. And then talking with Lucy Civic, who is our head makeup designer, and continuing to tell the story about Roddy through his hair and what that kind of reflects to him. And I always had it that he had reflected a female that he liked through his hair. Like season three, we had the blonde streaks and he was trying to mimic Louisa. And then four, he had the blue hair and he was trying to mimic this avatar, Kim, that he was in love with on the computer. And this season, he's just straight out peacocking with his like man bun and his purple hair. So everything tells a layered story going forward.

39:23So it was really nice to be able to delve into that a bit more.

39:25Christopher Chung:no that's that's that's that's interesting yeah um the the cast is so is so brilliant but um i guess it all starts from gary doesn't it and his you know his his sense of timing his and a lot of that it comes out in little moments with the two with the two of you where he's so disdainful of you so kind of dismissive it is what's it like being on the other end of his absolutely kind of scathing attitude towards you it's just wonderful which is like you know it's it's funny i don't think there are many people that get to be you know called out by gary oldman but what if you can i would absolutely recommend it yeah um but i you know i've worked with him now for near on four years and every day that i go on set with him i'm learning something new and and seeing how he approaches the work and how he's always looking to just again better it or make it that little bit more detailed so watching him find this scene within the room is is just so captivating and magnetic because i'm picking up all those skills for myself that i'm using that i'm finding that i'm using through other jobs that i'm doing as well and on slow horses too so it's it you know you're getting paid to learn from an oscar-winning actor who's one of the all time greats absolutely yeah yeah i saw you at the baftas um last year and that you were that you know that there was a gang of you there from the show it feels like you genuinely bonded as like a the slough house kind of you know mafia or something you know is that have you become have you become like a bunch of friends as well yeah it's like you know four years we're a very dysfunctional family in so many ways and you've got Gary and Saskia who kind of feel like the parents and you've got Jack and Roz who are like our older siblings and then me and Amy are like laughing away in the corner and then you have like Uncle Hugo Weaving coming in so it's it's wonderful you have and it's not just like you know any old actors every actor wants to be in the show of any kind of high caliber because they know that it's it's brilliantly written it's brilliantly paced you know it's six episodes you're in you're out and you've got a clear storyline so getting these massive players to come in and do guest spots like we have nick muhammad this season and he's absolutely bang on the money um so having them come in to the family and then always having them as part of the slow horses world has been you know mind-blowing yeah it's very exciting i was going to mention nick muhammad just to have him brilliantly cast as this politician kind of running for re-election as Mayor of London.

42:07Christopher Chung:That is an inspired bit of casting, isn't it? Were you a fan of his before he arrived on the show? Oh, yeah. I mean, I didn't get to do any scenes with him and I never crossed paths with him at the Unibates. But when I saw that he was coming in to play Jaffrey, I was like, wow, we've definitely... You always think as well going into a season, like how are they going to level up the casting? Like we've literally got the best of the best. But Melissa Getting-Clark and Nina Gold, who cast the show, always managed to get like the top tier talent to come come in and play with us so it's uh it's a real joy would you like i mean the show's been recommissioned we know that there's you know another series come how many have they confirmed they've confirmed six right not yet seven seven seven as well okay yeah so we're going into production we've finished filming six uh i think at the start of the year maybe and then we're going into film seven right so this show how How has this show changed your life?

43:03Christopher Chung:Like it must have been, you know, can you imagine what might have happened if you hadn't have got the role? And, you know, you've been part of one of the most acclaimed and, you know, one of the best shows of the last, you know, decade really. Can you kind of take that in? I mean, like saying that, it takes my breath away still because I feel like, you know, I've been on this journey as an actor. I moved from Australia to the UK about 14 years ago and I've done various work throughout, but just before I actually booked this job, I had spoken to my agent and I said that I think if this job doesn't come through, I might take a step away.

43:37And at that point in time in my career, a lot of the dreams and goals that I had for myself, like those doors started to close for me in my own mind. And then as I started to do this show and as it became more and more well known and acclaimed, all of those doors have just started to bust right open in a way that i even before i couldn't have dreamed of so it's been a real a real life-changing experience yeah yeah i bet yeah

44:09Christopher Chung:yeah you popped up in doctor who um uh last season was very excited about i'm a very big doctor who fan um how was that and are there any other shows you'd want to go you want to be a guest star in i mean doctor who was great fun i've always wanted to work with russell um i've kind of known him socially for a long time so it's been a real nice kind of uh circle full circle moment to get to do that episode and it was such a fun episode to be a part of um are there shows that i'd like to be a guest star on i mean i don't know a guest star but i'd love a regular role on the white lotus have a full full-sized role in white lotus yeah yeah why not why not i heard they're going to the snow somewhere next season i don't know if that's true but i'd still do it i don't mind if it's not a beach that's big of you yeah yeah yeah you adjust to the cold that's right yeah yeah um i have to say the other thing i was gonna everyone's mentioned this to me is that when you when you see you in the flesh of yourself you are incredibly buff and i know you know like it doesn't it's an interesting version of roddy isn't it it's like is does that was that always okay with everyone that you actually actually you know you're playing this role in your version you the reality of you is you're extremely um ripped young man well i'm trying to cross all the casting brackets you know you can't just be in this industry um yeah i mean i think it was something that for myself that even i thought that roddy should have been should be presented in one way and it and it took will and will smith and and james hawes our first uh season director to kind of bust me out of that mentality because they they really wanted to lean into who i am as a person and bring that to the role and the more that I thought about it, I was like, wow, I've even placed a stereotype upon myself because that's just what I'm so used to seeing.

45:55Being able to bring that version of myself into Roddy just heightens him even more. It's such a juxtaposition of who you think that character is and it's really lovely that James and Will allowed me to challenge the norm in that way and expand my own mindset. So I really appreciate that.

46:18Christopher Chung:And it particularly works in this season, doesn't it? Because his physical presence is kind of – it adds a kind of real impact, I think. Very much so. It's funny as well, though, because, you know, if you go on Instagram and you look through the kind of things that I follow or whatever, there's a lot of, like, people that are considered geeks or tech nerds, whatever it might be, that are absolutely jacked, you know? That's the other hobby that they have. Right. And we haven't seen that version yet. So it's nice to be able to be that. That's interesting, isn't it? Yeah. So would you want, finally, would you like so just to carry on for, you know, a few more years?

46:53Christopher Chung:And, you know, is that, I mean, you must do it really, right? You don't want this adventure to end, I'm assuming. Of course. I mean, I think that the day that I have to hang up the Roddy Ho hat will be a very sad day for me indeed. I don't think I'll ever get to play a character for as long as him or feel as attached to a character as I am with him. Yeah. And as viewer, I mean, we'll miss you and the show so much when it, you know, eventually. Yeah, but we don't need to talk about that. No, no, no, exactly. I'm sure. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I've watched all of season five and it's an absolute joy.

47:25Christopher Chung:So yeah, congratulations. Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Congratulations on a fantastic role and a fantastic show. Cheers, Christopher. Thank you. Cheers, Boyd. Thank you so much. that was Christopher Chung and time now for I guess the news you guessed the news I guess the news I'm going to guess the news and really there's only one place to start and it is with the fact the foundation has been renewed for a four season it is of course the 2025 Primetime Emmy Awards that took place in Los Angeles and I suspect we might hear a little bit more about that from a first-hand witness a little bit later on but let's talk about this were there any surprises?

48:02no

48:03Christopher Chung:Well, you say that. I think you're saying that in hindsight, you know, because basically the... Obviously in hindsight. Yeah, but what I'm saying is, no, no, no, with the benefit of hindsight. Oh, right. Sorry. The keyword benefits there is the one I left out because the pits won everything, right? Well, the big... Great show board, you should watch it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was never a given that it would. I think people are now going, oh, of course it was going to, because it's become a pop culture phenomenon. But let me remind you, it was up against The Last of Us, your favourite, Severance.

48:38Christopher Chung:So many corridors. I think Severance was the favourite. Do you? Yes, I do. See, I don't think it was. Oh, I do. I think it was an underdog. It was against Slow Horses as well. And Slow Horses and The White Lotus. You might even say The White Lotus was possibly more likely. Unless we forget Paradise, which was inexplicably also in the category. Yeah, indeed, it was inexplicable. I'm actually surprised The White Lotus didn't get any awards. And The Diplomat. It was a very strong category. Diplomat was never going to win. Andor should have won but it was never going to win either. Don't be ridiculous.

49:04But what I'm saying is

49:07Christopher Chung:everyone's going oh of course it was going to win all along. No, no, no, no, no. I guarantee you it was not a given that the Pit was going to win. Someone asked me before this what's going to happen to the Emmys and I basically just said the studio and the Pit were going to win everything. That was my whole thing. It's like being in the presence of Mystic Meg. That's right. I'm like Phil the Groundhog. Was that the day after the Emmys? Yeah. A good one for you. Andor did get an award writing for a drama series. Dan Gilroy. Which I think is a surprise in that category. Well, to be fair, Dan Gilroy did an incredible job with that blog.

49:38But Will Smith for Slow Horses and also Mike White. Yes, yes.

49:43Christopher Chung:And Dan Erickson for Severance. I mean, that's a really strong category. So that was an absolute triumph for Dan Gilroy, for Andor, I have to say. And Slow Horses did win for Adam Randall, the director. Yes, it did. And again, he was up against Andor, The Pit, two directors for The Pit, including John Wells who directed all the classic episodes of ER and stuff Legend Steady Severance Ben Stiller for Severance and Mike White for The White Lotus I think that is a surprise think about the strength of that category and Adam Randall we will talk about that obviously imminently and of course Adolescence is just completely sweeping the board I think that wasn't a surprise I've moved on from surprises now I've moved on to just good news.

50:30The good news section, which is that Adolescence rightly got its props.

50:34Christopher Chung:Friend of the pod, Phil Barantini, won for directing a limited anthology series. I mean, I feel like if he hadn't won that, everyone should have just gone home. Yeah. Genuinely. Collectively just stood up and walked out. Literally the whole room just emptied immediately and was like, fuck this. Yeah. No, I agree. Fair enough, yeah. Do we want to go through this category by category or is that just too excruciating? I think it's a little excruciating because, I mean, Adolescence and the Pit just like completely mopped up and we're going to be talking hopefully to someone who was there so that's quite exciting.

51:01Yeah, okay, fine. So let's not overly dwell on the others. No, I mean Shrinking didn't get anything which is not a surprise to me but I felt a bit sad about it, I just got to say.

51:08Christopher Chung:Yeah. I'm still picking on some surprise winners though. Oh, feel free. I mean, Stephen Colbert was always going to win. Oh yeah, sure. Supporting actor in a comedy series, this category included Coleman Domingo for the four seasons, Harrison Ford for your favourite, K, Shrinking, Eben Mosbacherk, also your favourite for the bear, Mike Ullery from Shrinking and it was won by Jeff Hiller from Somebody Somewhere and I guarantee you most people won't have heard of that show but I've mentioned it before a few times on this very podcast it's on Sky Comedy I believe or Sky Max possibly Sky Atlantic it's on one of the fucking Sky channels and it's really sweet he says having gone to the Sky Arts Awards yeah it's really steady unbelievable it's a really sweet moving beautifully done kind of gentle comedy about a community of outsiders who kind of...

51:57Christopher Chung:It's about being an outsider in a way, you know, kind of in terms of your sexuality, your gender. It's a really fantastic show. And yeah, Jeff Hiller, that was one of the heartwarming moments of the whole night that he won for that up against some giants. There were a few winners for... Like Severance, Brit Lowa won lead actress in a drama series for Severance. So, you know, not everything was won by the... And she had a little let me out written on her speech. Yeah, fantastic. It was brilliant. And Christina Miliotti was hilarious because she was like, she'd written the notes for her speech on the back of the piece of paper that she used to take notes in her therapy session.

52:29So she was saying, please don't read the back of this while I'm on camera. Incredible, yeah.

52:34Christopher Chung:Brilliant. Alan Cummings, soon to be in Tiptoe, right? Yes. He picked up the award for... Russell T. Davis' Tiptoe. Yes. Reality Competition Program. He picked up the award for the US Traders. Yeah. Good to see. And Tremel Tillman won for Severance as well. So Severance did win a few. Yeah. Quite rightly, because obviously it's fucking brilliant. Yes. So, the studio, adolescence, and the pit. Tick, tick, tick. Tick, tick, tick. And or should have had more tics. What did you say? And severance. Yeah, sorry, I've got a blind spot. I think it's because I didn't watch it and didn't engage with it.

53:05You hate her. She's a hater. Well, I'm sort of like not engaging with the pit news fully because I'm furious that I cannot join in the conversation because I've watched it. Just take a flight. Okay, are you going to get me a flight? Where's your retreat? Is it like on an island somewhere? Could you watch it on the way there? It's in the UK. but I am up for going to Fiji so okay you can watch it on the way there

53:25Christopher Chung:is it really in the UK oh I thought I imagined like it was like some kind of white lotus style you know you guys don't pay me enough to be on a white lotus retreat do they confiscate your phones yeah like your tech yeah or you just expect it to no yeah you give it you don't you're not like you know because some people wouldn't be able to some people are so addicted can you imagine Boyd giving up his like not looking at tech for a greater length of time than I don't know could you give them like a burner and like keep another one like a phone like stuffed in your sock You're just going on that.

53:52You're just cheating yourself, right? It's an entirely pointless exercise. I'd be like Jason Isaac in the most recent White Lotus. I'd be like, I can't do it. I would have liked a path. Yeah, that's right. Trying to poison everyone. Admittedly, that was poorly chosen. You'd see it would be a nightmare. You wouldn't be able to do it. I would struggle. I would genuinely struggle. Maybe I should try it. You've got no discipline, unlike me. Wow. Okay, so Emmys were fun. Yes, they were fun. What else have we got that is not Emmy-related? Do you know what? Himmel. Himmel? Himmel. Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel.

54:23Yeah.

54:26Christopher Chung:I see what you did there. You can explain yourself, Kay, if you want. No, because actually I don't know. I can't quote. I'll have to look up the quotes. Basically, Jimmy Kimmel was taken off. Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Cricket Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel. No, I shouldn't laugh. Right. No, madam. No. Jimmy Kimmel was taken off air because of comments he made about the assassination of... Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk, yes. Yes, that's right. To be fair, this is an absolutely extraordinary story, yeah. That's why I thought you would instantly talk about it. I mean, I wouldn't go around to it, yeah, but the fact that you queued me up.

55:07Christopher Chung:Yeah, it's stunning. ABC, it's an ABC... Jimmy Kimmel is probably the most... You're talking about the most mainstream, you know, kind of... He hosted the Oscars brilliantly a couple of times. I think he is the best of the current crop of late night talk shows, but he's been indefinitely suspended by ABC because he dared to talk about, you know, people's reactions too. He wasn't really even talking about Charlie Kirk himself. He was talking about the reactions to Charlie Kirk and how, in some people's opinions, what's happened has been weaponized by Donald Trump, etc., and the Republicans. and yeah it's absolutely it's crazy times I would say yeah Well handled.

55:53Yes, there's a video of an American preacher, like a pastor, talking about this particular issue. It's quite an interesting speech if you see it floating around on Instagram. But I think the gist of it is that you can abhor the way a person died without validating the way that person chose to live, which I thought was kind of a balanced response to something.

56:14Christopher Chung:Anyway, this is a downer. Just to say one more thing about it. The thing about it, it throws, there's lots of articles, you know, the whole American media, this is a huge story. Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. But also, what does it say about the future of late night chat shows? Jimmy Kimmel is such a talent and is so respected and admired that I think other outlets would find something for him to do. Oh, yeah. Similar to Stephen Colbert. Oh, yeah, but I don't think these people are going to be persona non grata, but it feels like that particular type of show. I mean specifically, I think there's still a huge attraction.

56:50Christopher Chung:Late night chat shows on American TV still have a huge attraction. They still get a huge amount of reporting is done on them, their comedy monologues, etc. Also, they get great guests. And also, great guests. And also, there's an ecosystem, I was going to say, of promoting a big... The whole Oscar season, for example, is kind of built around doing interviews on these types of shows. So I don't think they're going to disappear. I think that's slightly exaggerated. They're definitely under threat, though. It's definitely on a knife edge, and it's really interesting. Obviously, it seems trivial compared to other issues revolving around the story, but I'm fascinated by how they're going to be affected.

57:29To trivialise it further, guys, if there's an opening for an American slot for us, maybe this is our opportunity to crack America.

57:38Christopher Chung:Yeah, I think... Oh, my God, do you think I'm serious? No, no, no, I didn't. can you imagine you've become that delusional yeah oh it's possible listen I will watch the fucking pit on a flight whatever the destination is no I'd love to see us do like Boydie as a late night host oh great so you're in that film what was it called you know the one famously the film oh it's gone out mad you would do the monologue can you imagine James I mean if he worries about the camera filming this can you imagine guys guys I mean some of us have witnessed James doing a monologue the various life I mean that's true I would say my famous monologues how would you rank them there was the Game of Thrones one which I believe was 13 minutes and then there was the How I Got Taylor Swift tickets which was about 12 minutes oh that was a long one or were you also forgetting the whole quiz based on you oh yeah that's true that went on for about half an hour that went on so long I contemplated leaving I wasn't part of the pod then oh you weren't the only one and I was like I've supported this pod that I'm not part of for long enough in my defence the whole quiz wasn't about me it was only one round yeah but how long was that round it was interminable it's it's been on and on and on I think you even had slides didn't you yeah I had slides yeah there were slides it was demented okay guys I'll take it back we can't crack America we're just cracked oh god I can't even remember when we were so have you two been in any way a part of the summer I turn pretty hive which is it's like a phenomenon like everyone's talking about this love triangle who's belly going to end up with and then obviously summer I turn pretty finished it's final season finale but now it turns out it's going to continue in movie form.

59:11I know that's film news, but it's kind of tangential to a TV show. I mean, like a lot of our news, but I would say I can't, you know, we watched, I think I watched one episode for the podcast. I'm sort of tempted just to see what everyone's going on about, but also I can't endorse a show where the main character's called Belly. Wow, that's your objection. I believe it's short for Isabella. I know, but yeah, anyway, so it seems my kind of show, and so many people have got in touch about it, saying that we should give it another go, so maybe we can do it. What do you think? On Pilot Plus? Well, I think we did it.

59:41I literally think we did it on Pilot Plus. We watched the first episode and reviewed it. Of the most recent season? No, no. I think we went back to the beginning to review the show as a whole. And I think we quite liked it, but none of us were pressed on with it. No. We interrupt the news section. I'm just going to kick off straight off here. Because we have a guest. We have a guest. Ruth Bradley is with us here in the studio. Emma Flight herself. Welcome, Ruth. Thank you. And we've just had, and I'm going to read the slide, a ginger immunity shot, which you've just can you please tell us what this was like I'm about to try one myself it's hot on the eyeballs it's hot is it is it going to be intense but I feel my immunity is shut up I feel like it's the kind of thing that yeah I want to see you drink because it's like oh god he is drinking it oh fucking hell he never lets us drink on a that's quite intense it's going to keep the colds at bay for sure Kay's more of a mow it person but we're you know we like to do ginger shots on this podcast media but we I was just saying as we were coming up we were just discussing the Emmys and the winners and the losers for this.

1:00:40But you were at the show. What was it like? What's it like going to the Emmys? It's wild. It's great. The show was amazing. It was actually very moving in there. It was quite long. Three hours. So many ad breaks. Three hours. Oh, three hours.

1:00:55Christopher Chung:Nothing for an American awards ceremony. I'd say that's quite short. I know. But it was live. So there are ad breaks. And you're just like running out really quickly. Do you get fed and watered in between? Because no. there were no snacks no we had to bring our own snacks and your bags are probably quite small tiny so I couldn't fit any snacks so I had a massive thing of popcorn before I went in that's all they were selling which is very trendy and cool in my ball gown it's a vibe and do you have like a if you have to go up to go to the loo do they put a like a seat filler exactly that there are people all dressed up in beautiful ball gowns who just come in and sit in your place so I didn't leave because I didn't know when our awards were coming up so I was like it would be so bad bad if I was in the bathroom.

1:01:36It'd be pretty awkward, yes. Oh my God, how... Yeah, that would be the worst. Awful. So I just stayed there for three hours, but yeah. This is a side note. Do you get a goodie bag? This is my main thing about the Emmys. Yeah, it's all Kay cares about. Yeah, well, I've heard, like, you know, some of the, what would you say, like the nominees get these glamorous... Do you know, okay, we didn't... I know, and I'm just trying to think. Okay, well, someone needs to have a stern email.

1:02:01Christopher Chung:Sometimes there's like a gifting room, isn't there, where you go and... There was a gifting room. that I didn't have time to go to, which was gutting. Yeah, so maybe that's where I'll have it. Surely. Next time. Next time. See, that would be my only destination if I went to the Emmy's room. Where is the gifting room? How do I get to the gifting room? Who is coming with me to the gifting room? I mean, that says a lot around you. Yeah, I mean, that's probably true. They run a tight ship, though. You'd be hard-pressed to get to the gifting room. They bring you from place to place. But you were part of the whole gang, weren't you, if you went?

1:02:28Christopher Chung:Yeah. That must have been fun. That was brilliant. and like we don't see each other all the time we all live in different places so it was just like really refreshing I'd been out there a few days early and then everybody arrived and it was like a big love in it's nice to see the slow horses in their glad rags as well right I particularly liked Gary's red bow tie wasn't that stylish very cool nice touch yeah he cleans up well and you did win of course Adam Randall director won I mean that must have been fantastic oh it was amazing we really lost it when he won And we got up and screamed. It was like we were teenagers.

1:03:01But we really didn't expect it. You know, it's like we're kind of the little show that's a real cult kind of show. So, yeah, we were so happy, so delighted. He deserved it. You know, he's brilliant. But, yeah. It's interesting you say that, though, because I guess that's technically true. Because Slow Horses is on Apple, which doesn't have the biggest audience for the streaming networks. But, you know, those of us who kind of watch everything, it's very much up there as one of the best shows on TV. And that's kind of how we see it. So we kind of perceive it as this juggernaut. But it's interesting to hear you think of it as a sort of a smaller, almost cult show.

1:03:34Yeah, well, I guess everybody doesn't have it, right? Because it's a fee-paying streaming service. So, yeah, if it were on BBC One, maybe everybody would know more about it. But, yeah, it feels like the little show that's winning, which is great. I mean, it's obviously a big budget show, but still.

1:03:51Christopher Chung:It's definitely become a cultural phenomenon, hasn't it? I think even just you know whatever however many actual people it's people it's become one of the most acclaimed rightly shows of our time really when you first joined it because you weren't there from the beginning well you did were you aware of just how kind of brilliant a show was? No because when I first joined it only season one had aired so it was very I mean it was amazing but not many people knew about it but I could see by the writing how amazing it was and sometimes that doesn't translate but it was pretty clear that it was an incredible piece of writing.

1:04:23What can you tell us about Flight's arc this season? Is there anything that you can... Now when you say this season, which season do you mean crucially? Because it's sometimes hard to tell with Slow Horses because you've done like another 15 which haven't aired yet. Totally, we're banking them up. Are you scared to reveal too much? No, I think I'm safe. Well, it's great. She's got such a great arc. I mean, it's so faithful to the book. So if you read the books it's all in there. But that's what's so great about this show is that I could go back and read the books and like make a big plan, which you usually can't over seasons.

1:04:54So she's far more humble this year. She came in, which was great. I could make strong choices in season four because I knew where it was going. And she was definitely a little bit cockier in season four and thought I've arrived now and her ego was maybe running the show a bit initially. So five, she's far more humble, stripped back to basics and she goes on a very different kind of journey. Season four, it was great to see Flight and Lamb collide. so good I mean even reading that was so fun because you're like this woman has no idea what she's dealing with and it's just like well she certainly learns in episode 3 although she's out of the room because I wanted to talk about episode 3 it's what I watched this morning and I don't know have you seen how much have you seen do you get to see all of it in advance I've seen all of season 5 yeah okay so the episode I mean I'm going to bring it very base to the episode with Lam in the room they're in it's the farting scene it's the farting scene you're talking about I'm just going around here Just get to the point.

1:05:47It is exceptional. It is so good. I'm glad you liked it. Because obviously at acting school we talk about smell the fart acting but this is literally what that scene is. Literally what it is. And far more technical than you'd imagine because obviously we all needed to react at the same time. There was no real sound, you know. So we had to make those kind of... Gary Oldman doesn't do that on, you know... He can't do it on cue as far as I know. As incredible as he is. What I particularly love about that is that it's teed up to precision. and they've obviously judged the speed at which said fart would travel.

1:06:18That's what we discussed. And people react at different points. There's a clear delay between different people.

1:06:23Christopher Chung:Yeah, that was part of the planning. The reaction shots were fantastic. Yeah, yeah. And it was fun to see because we're all doing our own things. Yeah, right. So how many takes did you do? Do you remember? Of that particular scene? Surely it's a one-er, right? Yeah, I mean, I think we did a lot. We were all having way too much fun shooting that scene, which is, here we go again.

1:06:45Christopher Chung:I haven't read the books, but I remember hearing, I think we've interviewed Gary a couple of times on this show about the series. And I think he said that in the books, he's slightly less, he's more horrible to your character than he is in the show. That he's actually, he's quite extreme to flight in various moments. Is that true? Do you recognize that? I'd say that's very fair to say, yeah. I mean, that's what's great. The books are, we're faithful to the books, but definitely it changes and in the playing of it and how we are flight and lamb and how me and Gary are as actors so it has room to change and evolve yeah he's definitely way worse in the books to flight and she's harder and colder in the books as well oh that's interesting did you talk to Mick Herron about this at all have you had that kind of conversation about who he sees her as that's interesting I've never had that chat with Mick generally he's just I don't know if you've met Mick he's the loveliest man so he's obviously written all the books and then him, he and Will and the team kind of work on the scripts and then the scripts are Will's so it's Will who I speak to mostly about flight and yeah I must go back and chat to Mick in lieu of having shot them all She's an interesting character because she's kind of an antagonist isn't he really but she definitely wouldn't see herself that way do you think?

1:08:06Definitely not I think she sees herself as straight as a die and the slow horses are up to no good and everybody else is maybe not as straight as she is. So, no, she thinks she's the protagonist. Yeah. But isn't that the key to all great? I mean, I wouldn't even describe her as a villain, but all antagonists should see themselves as the hero of the story. Totally. No matter what kind of deeds they're doing, you need to think that you're justified in what you're doing. Definitely. It makes for good drama, doesn't it?

1:08:32Christopher Chung:What did you make of this season's emphasis on Roddy? Roddy coming centre stage. It can only be a good thing, right? Yeah. I mean, it's so fantastically entertaining. and Christopher Chung brilliant in that role so brilliant doesn't he there's a lot of room for comedy because that character is so funny and he's so unaware of what he's doing yeah it was really really great fun and even just the idea of having a girlfriend hilarious in and of itself in and of itself exactly yeah and he's so different isn't he I mean we've got an interview with him on this very episode oh do you yes we interviewed him a while ago polar opposite isn't he he's incredible he's hashtag leading man as I always say he's hashtag leading man yeah is this the last series that Will's written or is it the next one five is the one that's on now was there a sense of sadness about that because also he's done all of them and he's such a big part of this oh yeah I love Will it was a big old change but I think like anything things kind of come to an end but we're still great pals and I still have so much love for Will he's a genius he's very very good We try and pin down exactly what we think makes this show great because it is the writing and the performances.

1:09:43You feel like you know these people. You want to spend time with these people. But also, there's the underdog story as well and then McCarran's plotting. So there are so many different aspects to it. And it also has, and we talk about this a lot, the apple sheen, which a lot of these shows have, where they just feel so, well, let's be honest, expensive, but also polished, right? They just look beautiful. I think Apple are really, my experience of working with Apple is that they kind of, give their money towards it and kind of leave you alone really which is amazing and Jay Hunt I think who runs Apple UK has just got a great eye and great taste but essentially you're kind of left to do your thing on set and play with the huge production values which is probably why it's got the Apple Sheet That's the dream isn't it?

1:10:28Just give us all the cash and leave us alone That must be very liberating Yeah totally because it almost feels like you're making an independent film and then you're like oh no we're in St Pancras We're doing six nights in a row. This is not cheap, you know. Something that always interests me is accents. Now, you've talked, I think, in the past, that you tried to ground Emma in very specifically the voice, the accent, the background to like a location. Where did you settle on for her? I would never tell because somebody from here is actually so wrong. I need a postcode. I need a postcode. I could give you an in and around.

1:10:59It's an area in Kent. Okay, whereabouts? Right now. If she tells you, she'll have to take you out, James. But the other thing is, so English accents are fiddly. And in my experience, Americans in particular really struggle with that kind of southeast England accent. And I will say, Jack Loudon, incredible job. You do a fantastic job in this. Martin Compton is another one who does it really, really well. But what do you think makes it so tricky? And specifically, how did you nail it? Was it just like, I'm going to watch two seasons, Downton Abbey, and then just go for it? Like, genuinely? Well, no, because I think Downton is slightly more polished.

1:11:34Yeah, that's true. A bit RP. From Downton and not from Kent. You're somewhere between Downton and EastEnders. You find the middle ground. I don't know what that is. Well, I think that's why you have to be specific because otherwise you're kind of flailing about in the dark. And every accent, you know, there's sometimes Americans say you have an accent, but you're like, well, everybody does. An accent is so specific to the person and it informs you so much about who they are and where they've grown up and what their life has been. So I think specificity is the key. Specificity. So you chose somewhere like three miles west of Dexley Heath and that was exactly where you kind of nailed it.

1:12:04But trying to be posher. Yeah. That's the key. So a little aspirational. Exactly, yeah. In MI5, in Taverner, you know, to kind of... And then it slips sometimes. If you listen carefully, she slips. I was going to say, if you're going to be in a room with Chris and Scott Thomas, you better mind your P's and Q's. Yes. Because she speaks extremely well. Exactly. But sometimes when Flight's speaking to Lamb, it'll go back to her real self. Ah, I see. I mean, you mentioned Lady Di. Obviously, those scenes are also high points. The sort of Flight-Taverner dynamic is wonderful. what are those scenes like to shoot?

1:12:36So fun I mean that's another thing that's not really in the book but I really came at it like Taverner is her favourite woman on earth and she just wants to be her you know and so it kind of sometimes was falling into a mother-daughter dynamic it was kind of dysfunctional family so yeah that was so fun to play She's sort of seeking her approval all the time yeah just desperately hoping for a thumbs up and any old crumbs will do which I thought there was some It's never coming It's never coming She needs to let it go. I know. It's awfully cringey to watch, I think. You know, somebody desperate for something is getting nothing back.

1:13:12As opposed to Lamb, he just doesn't give a shit what she thinks. Exactly. Exactly. I love their dynamic as well, though. I think they make a brilliant couple, the scenes they have together. Oddly, probably a less dysfunctional one, because it's more honest and kind of like they're both being themselves. I'm a huge fan of James Callis, actually. I think Claude Wheatland, again, a genius addition to this show. but he plays that particular type of character very well. I don't know if you ever saw the 2003 Battlestar Galactica. I didn't. And you surprised me. I'm sorry about this. Not many did, apart from James.

1:13:43You've done science fiction. I have, I have. That's right. Humans, Electric Dreams. That's right. I wouldn't diss science fiction, but I missed Battlestar Galactica. You should go back and watch it. He's very good in it. He's very good, isn't he? And also, he's Bridget Jones' best friend. He is indeed. He's fabulous. he's very funny in this season isn't he

1:14:02Christopher Chung:very hilarious he gets to do some proper ridiculous stuff doesn't he he's on the ropes he goes way too far this season particularly is a lot about London as well because you've got Nick Muhammad as the mayor of London kind of standing for re-election etc so did you know Nick's work for Stardust I did I had seen him in Ted Lasso and I remember watching the first episode of Ted Lasso and being like I'd never come across him before I was like who is this guy I just think his style of acting is almost like you're a voyeur that you shouldn't be watching him. It's so naturalistic. You're like, this guy, they've just picked him up the street.

1:14:38And then I looked at him and was like, obviously really accomplished. Actor and comedian. But yeah, he's amazing this season. Yeah. Because you joined Ted Lasso in season two, didn't you? Because at that point, it was already a cultural phenomenon because during the pandemic, I think it became everyone's lifeline. Did you watch it when it aired in the pandemic? Again, I didn't. I kind of got the job. You don't have an Apple subscription, do you? No, I still don't. Someone at Apple needs to hook her up. I do have an Apple subscription. I pay for every month later. But yeah, I watched it again once I was cast and I was totally blown away by him and everybody.

1:15:11But it was out on its own genre-wise, wasn't it? It was like feel good and silly and sad and moving. It was great. And it kind of had an interesting art. The episodes got longer. It got more serious as it went on. And obviously your character, I've completely forgotten her name, but the school teacher who is kind of exactly that brings out a side to Brett's character that we don't see anywhere else so those are lovely scenes lovely just saw Brett at the Emmys actually as well because he now owns Hollywood oh yeah

1:15:40Christopher Chung:a little bit yeah yeah his film comes out on Apple this next week I think yeah very excited to see that and obviously in my favourite Shrinking yeah I'm obsessed oh yeah it's great isn't it fantastic and that's his show that he made like it's amazing yeah I mean, a touch on sci-fi, and I'm obviously joking, but not joking. But I am obsessed with sci-fi. I think this is fairly safe to say. But you've done a few of them, and I wonder, how do you feel about different genres and how you choose things? Do you just look at it purely on the basis of the character? Do I like the character? Do I not like the character?

1:16:12Or does genre and the type of storytelling kind of play into the choices that you make? Genre never does, actually. Really, very rarely. I barely notice it. It's always story first, and then character. But the kind of genre comes afterwards. unless it's a demonic possession horror in which case I'm like

1:16:29Christopher Chung:oh my god I'm too scared to do this yeah really have you not that many horrors no horrors kind of scare me yeah I mean it must be some old subconscious Catholic Irish thing I need to kind of delve deep into but like yeah demonic possession I'm like oh I don't want to touch it avoid at all costs don't mess with it yeah this feels like a demon that needs exercising you should definitely find out when the next exercise film is coming out and just sign on definitely do that I mean they're fairly regular They are, like buses, really. They come along all the time. But when you played Karen Voss in Humans, again, fascinating character because it's a machine pretending to be a person who's also a police officer.

1:17:08A lot of layers to that. From an acting point of view, it's quite a mouthful, isn't it, to get your head around because you don't want to be too robotic because she's trying not to be robotic. So you kind of have to walk this sort of middle path between the two different performances. Yeah, that was so much fun. All those challenges were so much fun. and again deciding how well she's acting essentially depending on who she's around and the little tells like in season one before anybody knew that you know like the eyes move before the head it's just so slight but it's like that's not very natural you know and that was something we all chose the robots did so yeah that was how would you do that what would your life be like and then kind of removing the bag was the big reveal but yeah it was great I loved playing it did you get to make a lot of those decisions for those character moments yourself or is it kind of like are there general guidelines you know or do you do you have a lot of freedom to to play with that idea well the ideas of what the synths did was kind of us and the choreographer dan o 'neill and we came up with it together but it was very much his influence really he's an amazing um choreographer and the other things i mean the bag was in the script but like i i got to decide lots of those things the little tales and yeah and then i was kind of left to my own devices as the series continued which was joyful and what about with slow horses do you do that as well you like you being a robot you get into it for the character i mean that's season seven k the reveal is season seven we can't spoil it at this stage how much do you get to play with that rock you know like or is it just very much what's in the script no totally i get to play with it yeah it's really free and like open and and like in season five obviously i can't speak about much of what happens but like there was a decision I'd made in my research like oh that's how I'm going to play that and then I got to set and I was like oh no not at all totally throw that out the window so

1:18:56Christopher Chung:always evolving always yeah yeah what was it because you was the fact that you were there on set in particular it was the other actor oh yeah yeah how they were playing it was like oh well that changes everything you'll know you'll know okay when you see it we'll keep our eyes peeled yeah so many iconic roles but nothing really can hold a candle to the pink power ranger which of course you voiced when you were 14 and this was now i'm right in saying it's just the it was the irish voice for the pink power ranger so a purely voice acting role what on earth was that like well it was great i mean i was 14 i mean i speak irish so it was like irish language no problem to me and i just pop in on the dart after school and record it for three hours and go home I'd be like, amazing, 150 quid.

1:19:43Great pocket money. Totally. So yeah, I wish I was still doing the Pink Power Ranger. It'd be a good little nixer for me as I go around. Did you watch the show as well? To be honest, I didn't. No, I never watched it in English or Irish. I wasn't a fan. But all I can remember is Turbo Power Anish, which means Turbo Power Now. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's all I can remember. That's incredible. It's good, isn't it? Genuinely amazing. So what's next for you? What are you working on now? I just finished a film, but I don't think I'm allowed to talk to it. It's a secret show. Yeah, it's a secret. And next, I'm just going to have a little relax.

1:20:13Wait for the right thing. Chill out a little bit. You've been to the Amaze. You've had a busy, busy old time. Yeah, I'm going to chill. Season six of... Oh, yeah, that's... Well, that's done, isn't it? That's what I mean.

1:20:23Christopher Chung:And in fact, there's actually a trailer for it. If you watch it on Apple TV +, and it looks incredible. Already, I'm excited about season six. Oh, great. It just looks fantastic. Yeah, obviously, you know exactly. Do your friends and family try to squeeze you for information, or are you very good with that? I don't know. They don't really try and squeeze me for information at all. I think they're probably happy to watch us. Unlike us, who's like, tell us everything. Yeah, tell us all the things. But I guess it would ruin it, wouldn't it? Because what's so great is you get the rug pulled from under the other time.

1:20:53It's unusual, though, isn't it, the way Slow Horses is produced? Because I remember when season one dropped, at the end of season one, the trailer for season two just kind of blew everyone's mind. And then season two dropped the same year as season one.

1:21:03Christopher Chung:If you could make sure that season six arrives soon. Right. I'll do that. Have a word, please. Put in a word to Tim Apple and just, you know. Because we want to see it. But it is incredible that it gets made that far in advance. And I suppose that's the benefit of being kind of pre-renewed and greenlit to go ahead, isn't it? Yeah, and that was the plan to shoot two back-to-back all the time. So the audience, for the audience really, because it's so annoying when you love a show and you're like, I wonder if they'll ever do that again. Will my answers be, my questions be answered? So that was always the plan.

1:21:34It's great, isn't it? It used to be the way. Yeah, but I'd like them very much to go back to two seasons a year. That would be great. I really appreciate that. So if you could put in a word, that would be lovely. Okay. We are very greedy. We are. We are very greedy. Well, Ruth, thank you very much for joining us on the show. You're so welcome, guys. We're going to review the fifth season of Snowball. In front of me. No. If you want to stay there, we're going to get straight into it. True story. Boyd used to actually do this on a radio show. He used to review books in front of the authors. Yeah.

1:22:00It was weird. Yeah. It was bizarre. Simon Mayer shows. That's so weird.

1:22:03Christopher Chung:Yeah. Isn't it awful? he's a terrible person it wasn't my idea but we did do it so you have to watch their faces crumble he was basically the Simon Cowell of books he was like it's a no from me most of the time they were good books so he didn't but once in a while it was excruciating it was ridiculous we're not going to do that to you really spoiler we really enjoyed it yeah exactly you would have nothing to worry about we'd be like yeah it was really good Ruth Bradley though I don't know thank you so much cheers Ruth that was Ruth Bradley That was delightful, wasn't it? Although, I'll be honest, this ginger thing that I had, I'm not feeling it.

1:22:39What is that? I didn't really see what it was. It is a ginger immunity shot. Yeah, they're popular. Which I picked up. Glenish. Yeah. I'm just naming the company. She chose it downstairs in reception and I decided to have one. And let me tell you, it's like, I don't know, it's got a kick to it. Yeah, because it's ginger. It's very good for your immune system. It's quite pungent. Yes. Water away those colds and lurgies. That's right. That's right. No lurgies from you. Okay, we can go back to news now, I guess. Where were we? Yeah. We were discussing news. Well, the big news was that Ruth just came in.

1:23:06Yes, Ruth just came in. That was news. But what else have we got? What else has happened in the world of news?

1:23:11Christopher Chung:Oh, I know what I was going to mention. I think I just said I'm very excited about this thing that arrived today. An email arrived today from the BBC comedy team in which they released the first images and further casting details of 2026. You know what 2026 is, Caitlin? What's next year, isn't it? Yeah, I literally thought you meant the year and I was like, oh, okay. No, this is from the team we gave us 2012. Remember the 1A? Yes. This is Hugh Bonneville as Ian Fletcher, who is the kind of hilarious character who gets to run stuff. He ran the Olympics from the British point of view. Seb Coaster, exactly, yeah.

1:23:50Christopher Chung:And he's brilliantly going to be joined by Hugh Skinner, who was in 2012 with him, as Will Humphreys, who is now, this is from the press release, Will has graduated from hapless intern to the dizzy heights of being Ian's PA which is very exciting because I love Hueskin he's absolutely brilliant in everything and he's hilarious in the show and also coming back is David Tennant who was in W1A in 2012 as the narrator and his narration is really funny it's fantastic and there's all Nicole Sadie Sawyers in it Joe Hewitson etc but I just cannot wait to see we have to wait till next year unfortunately because 2026 will be on in 2026 and it's all about Hugh Bonneville's character having to organise the World Cup it's very exciting there you go sounds it that is exciting not least because I've just confirmed who Hugh Skinner was because I was getting him confused for Hugh Dennis from Outnumbers no it's not the same Hugh Skinner is much younger shall we say any other news any other revelations Boyd any press releases any emails that have kind of popped into your inbox while we've been recording You know, I mean, it's just because you haven't done any work on the news.

1:25:04Christopher Chung:I can neither confirm nor deny. I think we should actually wrap news to go on to reviews because we've already... Yes, because we've had two guests on the show already. We might hit the three-hour mark, which I think it will be pushing it. Okay, all right. No, that's fine. That's fine. Kay's on message. She's being uncharacteristically professional. So let's move on to this week's reviews. Let's leave news behind. We've covered it all off. We've had a guest crash into news in a fantastic way. So let's begin with The Hack on ITVX. And this looks at the News International phone hacking scandal. It's written by Jack Thorne and Annalisa Dinella.

1:25:40And it stars David Tennant as journalist Nick Davis and Toby Jones as his long-suffering editor. Now, I already know what Boyd thinks about the show because I pulled it off his voicemail. But why didn't you tell us anyway, Boydy? Very good. What did you think of The Hack? That's quite clever.

1:25:54Christopher Chung:um i this is a fascinating fascinating project because um it's telling the true stories from the team behind mr bates versus the post office the the production company behind that show and sure enough um uh toby jones of said program pops up as ex-guardian editor alan rushbridger um the focus is on um a guardian journalist called nick davis played by david tennant And Nick Davis was very much the kind of starting point for the whole investigation into phone hacking, which led to the closure of the news of the world, particularly, and also massive allegations in other tabloids, which are still ongoing, by the way.

1:26:34Christopher Chung:The story hasn't finished. There's still legal action going on. I think, you know, the Daily Mail is being sued by Prince Harry still, various other people. And it's a whole, it's a can of worms. It's a huge can of worms. And first of all, what I would say is I think it's really impressive, and Kudos needs to go to ITV for even commissioning this in the first place, because it's not like they're going to get a good review in The Sun, right? For example, just to say, or even The Times. Basically, any of the Murdoch titles, because, you know, it's still a huge area of controversy. And if you read Private Eye, like I do, you will know that it's a densely packed.

1:27:19What's the controversy, though? That they still are denying that they...

1:27:22Christopher Chung:Yeah, that certain tabloid newspapers are still embroiled in litigation with people who accuse them of hacking their phones. And some of them still deny it. And, you know, so the news of the world, it was the only kind of, was regarded, it was claimed at the time, was the rogue newspaper. But since then, there have been accusations of others anyway. Anyway, I'm trying to avoid legal issues myself. Please don't get the podcast sued, Boyd. If you sue anyone, just target Boyd alone because, you know. Yeah, can we make it a personal suit and not like a group suit? Yeah, exactly, a group suit. We should also say, so this drama, it's a seven-parter, and it depicts what happened when Nick Davis unearthed the evidence and how he got the evidence for massive kind of endemic phone hacking going on in these papers, but particularly in the news of the world.

1:28:13Christopher Chung:But it also tells a parallel story of Daniel Morgan, who worked for a company called Southern Investigations, and he was brutally murdered, and his death had implications for the relationship between the police and the press. And do you remember the whole inquiry into phone hacking? There was supposed to be a second part of it, which was going to look at, you know, the kind of dubious, these dubious relationships between law enforcement and the newspapers. And that never happened. That second part of the inquiry never happened. But this drama chooses to tell that story simultaneously, but episode by episode.

1:28:50Christopher Chung:So the first episode sets the scene with David Tennant playing Nick Davis about the journalism involved and the investigation. And then the second episode jumps completely to start telling Daniel Morgan's story. And very different tone and like style, right? Yeah, completely different look and tone. And that's more of a kind of true crime feel to it. And the director, Lewis Arnold, has kind of taken a different approach to the two different... And so the first episode is a bit like all the President's Men, you know, and all those kind of classic stories about films and dramas about journalism and the kind of investigative reporting that happened.

1:29:22Christopher Chung:And then you get the Daniel Morgan story. and these are told episode per episode until you kind of run episode five or six when the connections start being pulled together, if you like. Oh, okay. I wondered about that. Yeah, by these two separate stories. Because it feels very disparate. Yeah, it does a bit. It does. It's a bold decision. I'm using the B word. And I thought we paid off, but I wonder whether people will think it's a bit too weird that it totally, if you like, abandons that first episode story. I think I fell into that camp. Yeah. I think people will. Because I think five's quite long to wait as well for it to, you know.

1:29:57Christopher Chung:Sure. Yeah, I think, by the way, I haven't watched the first two episodes, so I don't know. But I know that David Tennant has talked about in interviews how roughly that's how it kind of, they played out, and that's how they decided to do it. And that's how Jack Thorne decided to write it, particularly I think it was Jack Thorne's idea mainly to do that. But so first of all, I think it's a very brave, bold project. I think that the depiction, I really like the first episode. it has some some strange interesting creative choices one of which is he goes to a hotel to meet this person and lots of different celebrities are seen when he opens the door and he's like no it's not jonathan ross it's not and then you kind of meet the actual person the actual person and that was like so it's kind of like it's quite playful in an interesting way um which may or may not be to various people's tastes and look at k's face now she's shaking her head to listeners so i think we know which way you're gonna go i thought i kind of liked the fact that it wasn't just very straightforward storytelling.

1:30:54Christopher Chung:I like the fact that it was trying to do something a bit different. Yeah, of course, yeah. Because there can be a kind of relentless, if you tell the story all completely in order from beginning to end without any levity or any kind of imagination or, I don't know, playing with the narrative, then it can sometimes come across as a bit kind of, frankly, tedious. So this is doing a good job in making it interesting and coming up with different ways of telling the story. There's also a lot about Nick Davis and his family and, you know, his wife and kids, etc. and you know people may think well do we really need to know you know all about this this this this person's i think there's some way to explain why he's so tenacious and you know he's on that mission to uncover the truth and for justice i rather like the relationship he has with no i did with his ex-wife kathleen kelly uh kathleen kelly popping up yeah absolutely no i agree completely no i thought it was totally valid but i've seen reviews that have um questioned that creative decision you know but for me it's kind of partly about him it's called the hack and it's got that double meaning of you know he's a hack and the story totally central to it and at the same time um it's about phone hacking obviously so it's a clever title bottom line i thought it was very well done and i am fascinated by this story and i think it's interesting that some journalists find it difficult to deal with the reality of this story even now even this time i think they feel personally affronted and attacked by it almost like well because they They feel they're being tarred by the crush.

1:32:16Christopher Chung:I think so. Or they're in denial. I've never been one of those journalists. I've always thought it was totally valid, this investigation into what we want. I thought you were about to say phone hacking. Yeah, it's absolutely valid. How do you think he gets all his scoops? I remember, I remember very, I did this, I remember talking to a quite prominent tabloid journalist when this all broke, this story all broke. And it was constantly in the news for months and months. And in fact, the years on it, it was huge. and I remember she said to me she said the whole thing is a storm in a teacup and I was like is it really because they didn't want to deal with the reality that this was so widespread you know and it was very courageous for Nick Davis because essentially turning on fellow journalists it was an act of bravery both by Alan and Nick exactly 100 % so I don't think they wanted to acknowledge the reality of the situation because it's like I can you know if suddenly you know I mean I went on Newsnight yes I went on Newsnight with Steve Coogan and Alan Partridge and the and yeah it was Alan Partridge slash Steve Coogan it was definitely Steve Coogan and during this whole when that when this whole story was was the big story in the news at the time to talk about um you know journalism and showbiz journalism and how celebrities were being targeted by these phone actors oh my god I never knew yeah yeah yeah it's probably on YouTube someone still what I remember about it I was like apologetic I was like by the way you know in heat we don't do anything we don't come up with these stories we don't invest your honour and he's like oh no I know no it's fine you're fine you're absolutely fine and you know it was a me and my boy team mailing the office burn the evidence burn the evidence shut up James he jokes yes so yeah that was so I kind of like was fascinated by the whole thing and obsessed by what all went on and it's insane that it's still going on now so I'm fully on board with this show I thought it was a very interesting approach and I can't wait to watch the rest of it I have one criticism it's very wiggy I think the hair the wigs that David Tennant and for example Toby Jones wear and it's partly because you're so aware of what their hair's like in reality right I would just say this I don't think we need to have them looking like these people because the average member of the public...

1:34:45Christopher Chung:No one knows what they look like. No one knows what Nick Davis looks like. So did you find it distracting? I found it distracting. I did find it distracting. Can I tell you what I found distracting? Not the wiggy-ness. Not even necessarily the fourth wall breakage. Oh yeah, sorry, I haven't mentioned it. Although there is a lot of that. And some of it serves a narrative purpose. There's a bit where he says, as you can see, we didn't get the rights to use the mask heads on the news of the world or the sun yeah and so they show the kind of mott up with different names on it i can't remember what they actually are the current fun and something like that and it's just like okay so that's a way of explaining that which is nice but there's a lot of direct quite arch to camera some of its exposition some of its humor and some of it i think works and you can actually accept but there was one particular bit where he's going to meet uh adrian lester who is his source and he opens the hotel room door and there's a selection of people that's what I said I said that but Jonathan Ross yes Jonathan Ross a bunch of people and I was just like that joke just goes on too long and I was just like they have what maybe four or five people and I'm like one would have been funny two would have you would have got away with I'm like okay this joke has outstayed its welcome dramatically and weirdly that sequence put me off the fourth wall stuff so right so that's interesting so I find this I agree with the majority of what Boyd said it's fascinating it's important that it's being told, etc.

1:36:05And I think Tennant and Toby Jones are fantastic. I've seen two episodes. I do applaud creativity and bold choices. No, it's not so good. No, but we should be trying to reinvent the wheel and making bold, creative choices, etc. But for me, I found it too distracting, the two-camera stuff. Some of it, as you say, does serve a purpose, especially when stuff gets a bit convoluted or you know you're not in this industry and you're like oh wait what and he's kind of giving shorthanding it or self-correcting and I read like Jack Thorne was talking about why he chose to do it and in part is because to show that you know Nick didn't talk to a lot of people have a lot you know he obviously confided in Alan but the nature of what he did he didn't talk to people so it's kind of like he's forming that connection with the audience and self-correcting when he needs to etc etc which I you know take on board but I just found it it took me out of the story the playfulness of tone I didn't think it was right Tonal shift?

1:37:01Yeah well just you know the sequence that you're referring to that bit just got me because I was like it just felt I don't know it felt off kilter Well the thing is I think you there's room for making a joke but if that joke is painfully unfunny then I think that was my problem

1:37:20Christopher Chung:I don't think we can talk about that but I don't think it was meant to be a a hilarious gag a hilarious gag is making a point about sources and you know that kind of thing it's yeah I mean I don't know for me it's just the lightness of tone and the informality of it I don't know I just because it's a serious story right this is a serious story and I know it's a choice it's a choice you know the tone of this first episode as opposed to for example the second one which is just more plays it straight and it's more like a police procedural yeah I don't know didn't I didn't enjoy it as much as I think you did that aspect of it oh yeah fair enough I mean I enjoyed the whole thing yeah pretty much I mean you know I think there are moments that I might I liked the breaking of the fourth wall talking to Karen because I think it you would have had to have kind of had lots of I don't know clunky exposition and yeah he gets to tell us exactly what's going on at various key moments in his own kind of wryly you know kind of sarcastic self-aware voice so I thought that worked for me I thought that was I kind of liked that part of it it was just the weeks James drifted off into space and then decided we should probably wrap up this review so that's it for the hack I was breaking the fork wall there the fork wall actually I got it oh right I just thought oh my god okay this is it he's having a breakdown this is an episode and we're just like going to have to wrap the actual episode to do all this that's fair I was going for the same level of humour as the show so why you didn't find it funny anyway sorry no offence Jathorne other than that one gag I actually did like it yeah I enjoyed it too but The Hack which is on ITV Wednesday the 24th of September 9 o 'clock 2025 super next up we have Wayward on Netflix and this is a thriller created by Mae Martin and it tackles the troubled teen industrial complex as I have labelled it in the US specifically a school run by Tony Collette Evelyn Wade and the creepy town in which the school is situated and the kind of cult-like environment in which it exists.

1:39:24And speaking of creepy cult leaders, Kay, what did you make of Wayward? So I really enjoyed this because I'm a big fan of May. I think they're brilliant and particularly in this just conveys such a sort of sense of vulnerability and quiet strength. Something very mesmerizing about their performance. And in this they play, right, so in this may plays a man called alex who's married to laura who's pregnant they move to tall pines we find out that laura was originally from this um place which is considered to be very progressive and intentional community he reassures him that you know everything's fine he'll be one of the dudes and there's nothing to worry about but actually there's a lot to worry about because as you say there's this tall pines academy for troubled youth led by evelyn way played by tony collette brilliantly who is on full intense slightly creepy mode terrifying terrifying alex soon runs into a boy who has escaped and as soon as he meets him he knows something's really badly amiss because he says please do not send me back there and everyone tries to cover it up but alex knows something is going on and so he slowly starts to investigate even though uh he's being discouraged you know particularly by tony collette's character evelyn wade who's like no these people you know they they just need a firm hand etc etc it's it's fascinating i think the tension is just completely ramped up throughout this first episode and i was just given every reason to continue watching because i want to know what exactly is going on um at that um school there's another by the way there's another two characters we meet these two girls who are troubled who are almost certainly en route to this place it's like what the fuck is going on there and will Alex be able to stop it or get to the bottom of it.

1:41:10I really enjoyed it.

1:41:12Christopher Chung:It's a really unexpected left turn, isn't it, from Mae Martin? Like, you know, from Feel Good and Stand Up. You know, Mae Martin is still doing loads and loads of stand-up all the time because I follow them on social media. Well, they're really good friends with Brett Goldstein as well, funnily enough. They've done loads of shows together. that so this suddenly enters into like twin peaks slash wayward pines territory and it's a completely surprising move but i love the fact that may martin has just boldly gone there because you kind of expect it to be a bit funny right a bit comedic but it isn't really at all it's just solid it's a solidly as you say sinister dramatic kind of weird twin pixie style thriller mystery thriller effectively yeah we with some drama you know with some you know dramatic stuff there as well but yeah it's it is it is a effectively a mystery thriller comedy it's definitely but bottom line is it's definitely not comedy yeah and i think it's quite rare i was trying to think of other examples of someone so known for their comedy that they then pivot to well they can't be pigeonholed no completely don't get me wrong and i think may martin is fabulous in it and it is a very unusual character.

1:42:29Christopher Chung:It's interesting that Mae Martin is they them now, and is playing a character who is he him, playing a man in the show. Yeah, playing a trans man. Playing a trans man, exactly. And so it's got that element to it, which makes it unusual, let's face it. But I thought it was fascinating, absolutely fascinating. And Toni Collette brilliantly cast. I mean, you know, she's always... She does terrifying very well. She does terrifying so well. Do you think there's something mesmerizing about May? Yeah. Oh, completely. Yeah, and feel good in order. Yeah, absolutely. But it's interesting because May Martin said that this is a story they've been wanting to tell for years.

1:43:07It made me wonder whether they had any kind of, honestly, like, personal experience of this kind of place because the, you know, I referenced it in the introduction in a kind of slightly flippant way, but that kind of troubled teen industry is big business in America. Like, it is a huge thing where, you know, kids who are, quote-unquote, problem kids are shipped off to these places. And there are literal companies like teen transport companies who basically do extraordinary rendition on teenagers where they black bag them in the middle of the night. It's terrifying. Often lead to like permanent psychological trauma and PTSD for these kids and drag them off to these military academies where frankly they're rife with like physical and all kinds of abuse.

1:43:45It's absolutely horrendous that this happens. You know, reform schools are not, you know, I mentioned Steve, which is literally what that film was about earlier in the show. You know, they do exist in this country, but it does appear in America. It is very much like, it is a big business, this. And certainly there are examples in this of, there's a very fine line between a troubled teen and a shitty parent, right? Some of these kids, certainly the ones depicted in this, they're not troubled teens. They are teenagers with shitty parents who aren't prepared to actually parent their kids. And I found it quite upsetting, actually, watching this, the way that's done.

1:44:18But, but... It's mentally. Yeah, of course it is. Absolutely, it succeeds at what it does. Really enjoyed it. I think there's a compelling mystery and it's heart. I think the characters are great and it goes in places that you maybe don't expect as well. So yeah, good. Liked it. Can't wait to watch more. Indeed. Wayward then, not Pines, Tall Pines in Wayward, Wayward on its own. Sorry, I'm having a slight Wayward Pines meltdown. It's another episode. Yeah, it is in fact. I'm having another episode. Wayward then on Netflix. When, Boydie?

1:44:49Christopher Chung:September the 25th, which is, I believe, Thursday, September the 25th, 2025 Fantabulous Right Finally This week We've got season 5 Of Slow Horses On Apple TV Plus Which we've not discussed Or even really touched upon On this episode Of the podcast Which is nice This season does As we've mentioned See Roddy on the run And terrorists attacking London Otherwise known as An average week At Slough House Who wants to tell us About Slow Horses Boydie Why don't you do it And pretend that Ruth's in the room Oh Mayo style Yeah do it Mayo style I'm not doing it Mayo style Well So the listeners will have heard our interview.

1:45:27Christopher Chung:They will. It will have already gone. It's very confusing. And there's Chris Chung interview as well, of course. Roddy Ho himself. Because, and one of the main reasons we wanted to speak to Christopher Chung is because Roddy is front and centre for the first time. Taking his rightful place. And although you're in the pocket of Big Chung, we are all in the pocket of Big Bradley. So, you know, we're all compromised. And we're all in the even bigger pocket of slow horses. Yeah, of big horses. big horses, slow horses, big slow horses. Whatever you want. We're all having an episode at this point. Yeah.

1:45:58It's very confusing. Because we've been in this room for about four years. We really have. And also I've had this ginger shot and frankly it's gone straight to my head. Oh God. Carry on.

1:46:04Christopher Chung:But as Ruth herself mentioned, this is, I think this is the most out and out comedic series so far, arguably. And that's probably because Roddy, the character of Roddy, who is intrinsically funny and one of the most gigantic doofuses in the history of television. That is the word for him. He is doofus. Man-child as well. He's a raging bellend. Yeah, but I think doofus is more, he's a goofball doofus. Delusional moron. Delusional, and yeah, but brilliantly funny creation from everyone involved from the books, but particularly the way Christopher Chan plays him as well. And in this, you see him in more ridiculous outfits that he wears.

1:46:46Christopher Chung:His hair is absurd. he's got like a massive sword thing that he wields oh yeah it's a big sort of like anime type style sword yeah it's amazing obviously he's embroiled in all of that and but and the whole kind of storyline revolves around him getting a new girlfriend and um and you know he meets in this club and then how can this girlfriend possibly not be some kind of suspicious character and the rest of the slow horses um particularly shirley particularly shirley have their doubts and then at the same time this is kind of in classic slow horses style the whole thing begins with a proper thriller um espionage spy story element where um london is being kind of terrorized by various in various incidents and you've got nick mohammed as the mayor campaigning to be elected and that whole and as his campaigning issues of violence in the capital feels very on feels very topical actually in that way that this this happens to be coming out right now Yeah, because it starts with, there's basically a radicalised man who kind of goes on a killing spree in a tax centre.

1:47:52Christopher Chung:Exactly. So, you know, and as ever, I think, in Slow Haltes, what they do brilliantly is the bloody tonal shifts, you know. It's funny. All the stuff with Roddy is hilarious. The scenes where he's interrogated, et cetera, are brilliant. And everyone is at the top of their game. Because we know and love these characters so well now. It's just brilliantly pleasurable being in their company. and it's as funny as ever but at the same time all the stuff about London and the kind of terrorist activities that are going on and all of that works totally as a thriller in its own right running alongside the character development and the funny stuff so it's brilliantly pitched I enjoyed it as much as ever I think I guess the question is where is it ranked if I was ranking all the seasons I don't know I think it's up there it's possibly maybe my second favourite I really liked it it was the first you No, I think the third of the film I had season I loved.

1:48:47Christopher Chung:Then there's this and then I think I might prefer this to the last season. You know, anyway, they're all great. They're all very good. They're all very good. Empire's Nick the Samhain gave this particular season three stars because he is wrong. No, that's ridiculous. Professionally wrong. Nick, if you're listening to this, you're just wrong. That is wrong. That's a big bowl of wrong. I obviously really enjoyed this. I loved it. I think this might be, well, I've only watched three episodes. I'll reserve judgment to see where, you know, sits in my child favourite series. But I will say episode three is an absolute doozy.

1:49:18We're going to do a spoiler special, aren't we? Of course. But the scenes between Roddy and Kristen Scott Thomas are sensational. Yes, they're magnificent. The thing I love most about this is that we're really digging into the psychology of the slow horses in this one. They are all falling apart. I mean, they are just in such a bad state, kind of en route to the Knacker's yard, because we've got River, who's dealing with the fallout from his dad and his grandfather and he's not processing it and he's in denial about it and he's in real twat mode um then you've also got um louisa who needs a mental health break shirley who's on the edge and but she's masking her grief and is sort of slightly manic and no one really knows how to deal with her except for standish who is always just so compassionate because shirley is hellbent on this theory that roddy's being targeted and actually probably people should listen to her and then Lamb is Lamb just marinating in his juices refusing to take he is

1:50:12Christopher Chung:yeah I've just got that image in my head well he's Lamb and is not taking marinated Lamb yes well there's little workings behind that he's doing he's just not taking her seriously and the apathy he's showing is just like it's so hard to watch because this woman is in a state of real turmoil yes I just like the focus on them being in this really distressed state and how they're going to get their way how they're going to get out of it and obviously the tension just ramps up as things progress with roddy i've all just bloody loved it and uh can't wait to i might binge it you know i said i've like you know i'm not binging yes you do because we should record three episodes to go i mean yeah i'm yeah i don't know how you can leave three episodes on watch right genuinely don't understand i just don't want it to be over because the quicker i watch it the bigger the gap i understand that i'm gonna say that obviously there's a trailer for the sixth season at the end of this and it looks even more exciting yeah i said so ruth badly yes uh so yeah anyway uh christopher chung for the win yeah and everyone yeah all of them but i mean how uh for roddy to get his moment in the sunshine i'm with you yeah i i yeah yeah it's not something against roddy who knows maybe it's too close to home oh i didn't think of it that way wow boy that's really hard so rude steady and James gets fired slow horses then season 5 on Apple TV Plus when?

1:51:32Christopher Chung:Wednesday the 24th of September 2025 fabulous and very quickly before we get thrown out of the studio yes what have we missed this week? well Creatures Grain Small is back on 5 your favourite James I know but it is it's actually a lovely show Thursday the 25th of September at 9 o 'clock The Savant The Savant Savant The Savant which is on Apple TV Plus which is on on Friday and we're going to be covering that on Pilot Plus this week. Also heavily embargoed is House of Guinness from the very busy Stephen Knight. Yeah. And that is literally the story of the Guinness family and it also stars James Norton in a very interesting role.

1:52:11Christopher Chung:How about Shakespeare and Hathaway, Private Investigators? Yes, that's also on. Sister Boniface Mysteries as well as on You in Drama if you like that kind of thing. Brassett, Kay's favourite. Brassett. Final season of Brassett. Final season. Back on Sky Max. Max, yes it is Max, not Sky Comedy or Sky Atlantic, Sky Max and now from Thursday the 15th of, Thursday the 25th of September. Tulsa King, the new series just started actually on Sunday 21st. Is that Series 3? I think so. It's already been in Division 3 for a new run. Our favourite, Romesh Ranganathan is in Romesh Can't Knock the Hustle, which is the story behind this latest stand-up show.

1:52:45Christopher Chung:That's on Sky Max and now from Tuesday at 10 o 'clock. Oh, Waterloo Road's back on Tuesday as well on BBC One if you like that kind of thing which intriguingly actually I am genuinely Don't scoff for that I'm not scoffing I watched the first episode I think No I'm not scoffing me we'll leave that to James Yeah that's my job yeah but genuinely interestingly John Richardson Yes is in it He's joined the staff room Exactly so he's acting and that's very exciting indeed I think that's about it Pick of the week Stay Horses Low Horses Yes Unanimous Okay that is it for this week's show we hope you enjoyed it if you did please do leave us a five star rating on whatever podcast platform you so choose and do feel free to follow us at james c dyer on instagram and the talk don't forget that uh at carabarrow at boyd hilton at pilot tv pod you can message us if you want your question read out when we obviously do questions uh pilot tv at empire magazine.com on thursday show as boyd mentioned we'll be talking about the savant and apple tv plus with jessica chastain and next week there are many things happening and shows that we really need to organise but crucially Kay won't be here because she'll be in some kind of sensory isolation tank having some kind of treatment or facial or a massage or I don't know what she's going to be doing.

1:53:58All of the above. All of the above. Bombard her with emails, messages. Feel free to like pick her, light her phone on. You're going to get my out of office. Do you know what? My out of office, I'm actually just going to put both your email addresses in. I bet you will as well. Get in touch with that guys. Get in touch. Well, we'll have stuff next week anyway. so it's all fine an upgrade an upgrade indeed oh no no don't be ridiculous pilot out