Stranger Things, The War Between The Land And The Sea, and Spartacus: House of Ashur

28:21Like what? Right. First of all, the tash. I mean, it's ridiculous. I'm not going to give it an option. Hercules always had, you know, moustachioed... Not that monstrous, you know... Monstrous? Yeah, it was. It is magnificent. No, it was ridiculous. It was, yeah, it made him a figure of fun. She took against the moustache possibly. More than that. Boy, did I win to the screening. We went to the premier. We went to the world premier of the Royal Alba Hall, in fact. And you still complained. That's all I'm saying. Afterwards. But also, right, he looked dishevelled at times. Dishevelled? Yeah, like his...

28:52I've had to part with this nonsense for years. No, that was not... He wasn't neatened, right? Neatened? Yes. Also, he ran. Yeah, it's not. He ran. He ran. Right. Poirot would never run. Because he was a younger, more lithe Poirot, wasn't he? He just wouldn't... This is a famous Suchet thing, isn't it? Where Suchet refused to run because he said Poirot wouldn't run. He wouldn't run. I think a lot of that was maybe David Suchet didn't want to run. Well, indeed. No, I think he had studied the text and realised that he was a dignified character who would not run. What if he was in a rush? And hair around.

29:23That's what Hastings is for. He would do all that running around and being a fool. Is this why you don't run anywhere? Because you just expect me and Boydie to do it for you? Well, as you know, I'm a good runner. I've done two marathons, but you know. You haven't walked them. I haven't walked them. James, don't start. Yeah. anyway lest we go down that rabbit hole again walking marathons with Gabby Logan my Alan Partridge my Alan Partridge for anyone who doesn't subscribe to Pilot Plus someone called Boyd out on his Partridge ways accidental Partridgeism I might give a talk soon on my experiences of walking the marathon with Gabby you should ridiculous and Sue Cook anyway yes that was a great question that was a great question if your question read out then please do send it in pilot.tv at empiremagazine.com is the email address in question time now to move on to this week's news and a few things have happened he says desperately playing for time while I try and bring up my list of news who's got something in the meantime well you know what I'm going to do is this an annual treat I think that I do on this podcast oh god is this where you're going to list every single show on over Christmas yes okay thanks Kate do you want to go tea no I'm not do you know what this is really useful because I've heard well you kind of teased us a few weeks ago saying oh it's not very good guys so yeah tell us well yeah I mean I think remember last year we had Doctor Who we had Gavin and Stacey we had Wallace and Gromit you know there were loads it was chock-a-block I mean Wallace and Gromit and Gavin and Stacey are two of the biggest TV hits in history and I think if you compare it to those this year it's not as exciting the real excitement is New Year's Day to be honest where you've got the Night Manager coming back ooh exciting yeah so these have been confirmed for New Year's Day yeah the return of the Night Manager after what six, seven years or something it's been a while Tom Hiddleston Olivia Colman Olivia Colman's back, and he's kind of like a jobbing spy now, I think, and he goes back and kind of makes some new dodgy people and kind of goes undercover with a couple or something like that.

31:19Anyway, just let me know the fact that the Night Manager's back is big news, and Red Eye is ITV1's big offering, I think, for New Year's Day, with Martin Commerson, we've talked about this before, joining as the male lead in the second season. Yeah, guest star, I was going to bring that up. so I mentioned it before because I was hosting the launch at the same time that Martin Compton the news was breaking that he was going to be in Line of Duty for season 7 and Jing Lucy's reprising a role as is Leslie Sharp and Gemma Cook and I'm excited I've watched all six episodes but I'm not allowed to say anything so yeah I'm in the big pocket I'm getting you to write that preview yeah I'd be happy to oh good there's also Amadeus we've mentioned Amadeus before that's on Sky Atlantic I'm very much very excited about that if anyone's seen the trailers.

32:04Joe Barton, Spurs fan Joe Barton, is going to be feeling low. But we can give him a boost by saying it is one of the best things on over Christmas. I think it's going to be one of the best things on over Christmas. That's going to be on Sky Atlantic and now. And then there's a thing called Dear Father Christmas, which is a one-off starring Lenny Rush as a 16-year-old who still believes in Father Christmas. And that looks quite fun. Well, there's no reason not to, Boyd, for anyone listening. No, exactly. And there's the annual, you know, at the end of Mark Gatiss, A Ghost Story for Christmas. That is back.

32:36And Tobias Menzies, is that how we pronounce his name now? I think, isn't it? And Joe Lumley's in it, one of your favourites, Kay? I love Joe Lumley. Joe Lumley. Apart from that, there is a lot of Call the Midwife, Death in Paradise, Beyond Paradise, all of that kind of stuff that isn't, I would say, entirely thrilling. And there's, yeah, sorry. I'm just being honest, Kay. Listen, you've always got to be honest, please. We've got to be honest. And then in the comedy sphere, that's drama, in the comedy sphere, what I would mention is Amanda Land has a special. Oh, does it? Yes. That's exciting.

33:04That is exciting. And not only is it, of course, the character of the Joanna Lumley's character is back in it. The brilliant Joanna Lumley is that kind of really insane mother figure. But there's a new character who is going to be played by Jennifer Saunders. So it's an ABFAB reunion within the Amanda Land universe. Can't wait. How good is that? Do we know what day did you say? No, the days, the specific days for these shows haven't been confirmed yet the big shows have been confirmed that these are the big offerings coming up not too shabby no there's all this outcry like I saw online of like oh the BBC hasn't got anything good just generally and I also have a couple more to mention I haven't finished yet please this is what James is going on about that I go through every single taking the piss it's a user service thank you here we go the excellent BBC One comedy oh my god I love that Tom Basden of the Ballad of Thingy What's It the Ballad of Thingy What's It Catherine Parkinson.

33:59Yeah, famously. Catherine Parkinson, Alistair Stedman. Yeah, legends. It's a brilliant show. Have you ever watched Here We Go? It's the one with the GoPro, the camera. Do you remember the boy, the son of the house? It's kind of a cringe comedy. I think I have watched, I think we've reviewed it and I think I've watched an episode of it and I think I didn't enjoy it. But then again, that shouldn't be a huge show. No, no, no. If anything, that's an endorsement. Yeah, that's an endorsement. It's not a shock at all. But that's a New Year's, New Year's Eve themed episode so I'm guessing it's going to go out on New Year's Eve as well.

34:25Then there's a special for Mandy, Diane Morgan's Mandy. I think we all love Diane Morgan. James will absolutely hate that. Yeah, I struggle with Mandy. In fact, that's one that you are casting a tree branch, weren't you? When you're on a ladder or painting a ceiling. No, no, no. I was painting the ceiling when we did Kunk on Earth. Oh, that's it. Oh, Kunk, yeah. Kunk is brilliant. Yeah, to be fair. And there's a new sitcom from Brendan O 'Carroll. Who he? Do you know who Brendan O 'Carroll is? Yeah, Mrs. Brown, your favourite. Mrs. Brown's voice, your favourite. James' favourite. Oh, yes. Mrs.

34:56Burns is back for its legally required Christmas Day special. Thank God for that. He's created a new sitcom called Shedites, which is about a gang of eccentric men and their misadventures in a shed in Ireland. Sounds unmissable. And then there's lots of entertainment stuff, which I won't go into because that will annoy James. Yes. But all I'd say is the wheel, Christmas wheel. I mean, that's going to be brilliant. And The Traitors is back, finally, on New Year's Day. Regular traitors. Regular non-celebrity traitors. Civilian traitors, if you like. New Year's Day, BBC One. So New Year's Day, the big day is New Year's Day.

35:33It's the biggest day of the year in theory. New Year's Day was when, you know, the post office scandal drama began. The Tourist was on New Year's Day. The Happy Valley was New Year's Day. Tired, hungover. They reserved their biggest, biggest show, sometimes of the whole year, to go out on the first day of the year. I wouldn't be surprised. of Line of Duty, they keep, which they'll be filming in spring, if they keep that over to next New Year's Day. That's a bold claim. I don't remember it. They've never done it before. No, but they've never done it with Happy Valley before, but they worked pretty well for them when they did do it in the end.

36:06I may be wrong. I may be wrong. I have been known to be wrong. Rarely, Boyd. Every now and then, it happens. I'm saying they'll be tempted, I bet, because it's such a huge night, but we'll see. Boydy, when you walked a marathon, were you doing it in honour of Hercule Poirot because he wouldn't run? No.

36:23also do you know that tells me that he hasn't listened to any of your Christmas list no I tuned out some time ago oh yeah 100 % now an important thing which did actually break last week and we didn't actually talk about and I can't remember if it broke after we recorded was that House of the Dragon has been kind of stealth renewed because they were putting out pictures of the new season of House of the Dragon and they mentioned that there's loads of Game of Thrones action coming our way because next year not only sees the first season of the Night of the Seven Kingdoms the adaptation of The Hedge Knight which I've already seen and of course the next season of House of the Dragon but then 2027 season 2 of A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms which is already sorted and then House of the Dragon another season which was originally going to be the final one is going to be airing in 2028 but we don't know if that's going to be the last one or not it was originally going to be the fifth and final season of House of the Dragon but who knows whether it will continue I'm now more confused than Illuminated frankly Really?

37:21Well, that was my goal. Okay. Over Christmas, I am thinking of like delving into... You're not going to though, are you? No. Delving into what? Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones. I thought you had James' brain. Oh my God. That's a terrifying place to go. Speaking of the upside down, let's... No, but the... You're not going to do it. I don't believe you. James, I mean, that's not... Blame in the league. I'm using reverse psychology. You're never going to do it. You're never going to do it. James, you didn't think I didn't know that's what you were doing. And that makes me then think, oh, I'm not going to watch it.

37:50so stop saying anything so you're doing reverse reverse psychology exactly I see what you did there you know we're both perverse in that way so anyway it's very difficult listen can I tell you some ITV news if you must James so first of all snob still exactly that's one word for it so first of all the red eye news which is exciting New Year's Day but also there's two other dramas that have been communicated to us via email which is Betrayal Pressure Leases of Insanity the words just went from my head so this is a four part drama by David Elridge and it's starring Sean Evans and Romola Garai. And apparently it's about a mid-career MI5 officer, played by Evans, who is navigating a rapidly evolving intelligence landscape.

38:31And he basically kind of meets up with a British Iranian man who has links to a gangland who claimed to have intelligence about an imminent plot in the UK. But things take an unexpected turn. And then John finds himself, and that's Sean Evans' character, under internal investigation, led by, among others, Simone, played by Nikki Amuka Bird. She's everywhere at the moment. You're obsessed. I am. She's fantastic, anyway. With Nikki. Yeah, so she's in it, and Romola's playing John's wife. So that's interesting. Looking forward to that. But more importantly, I'm even more excited about the news that there's a drama called Gone coming out on ITV.

39:12Oh, yeah. So it's a commission. And the name, to be fair, I'm instantly going to forget. it will be gone from my mind because it's not it's not a memorable one however the talent involved are fantastic so we have my favourite Eve Miles David Morrissey fantastic and it's written by James zone back in it's written by Hijack Lupin writer George Kay so I know you're going to be interested in that yes because he is fantastic and he writes really really gripping dramas this is a psychological drama it's a six part series and it's apparently set against the backdrop of a prestigious private school. So, James, you'll relate.

39:50A foreboding forest and the quiet sprawl of Bristol. Oh, I love a foreboding forest. And you love Bristol, so it's all coming together nicely for you. It's a chilling mystery focusing on local headmaster Michael, played by Morrissey, who becomes... Played by Morrissey? That I'd like to see. By the bigger legend, David Morrissey, who becomes the prime suspect in his wife Sarah's disappearance. So, already very intriguing. and Eve Myles is going to play the gutsy detective Annie Cassidy who enters into a game of cat and mouse with Michael and I'm excited about that. So that's another good drama for ITV.

40:28Anything from The Pain of George K is exciting because Lupin is brilliant, genius. Fantastique. Très bien. Très bien. Sorry, I derailed you, Boyd, for my fantastic French. And Hostage. What's hostage in French? Does anyone know? L 'ostage? L 'ostage. I presume. He's obviously brilliant. And George K didn't do, I don't think he worked on this series. Would it not be Lijack? Was it Lijack or Lostage? Lijack. Was it Hostage or Hijack? It was Hijack. It was Hijack. It was Lijack, not Lostage. Thanks for correcting me on that. Bloody hell. I only interviewed Jim Phil Smith, the showrunner, Andrew Ducel, before I had last Friday.

41:02Do try and get the name of the show right. I think I got the name of the show right from to them. Fingers crossed. So, your show Hostage. I'm pretty sure I got it right. Did I tell you the story of that? I interviewed them at the carriages. I haven't spoken to you since you did it. But I know you were going to do it and I remember the situation, the absurd situation where you were going to interview them and you were going to do it over Zoom but you were going to be in the hotel. So you were going to be in like a suite next to theirs but doing it over Zoom. And is this because of the restraining order?

41:33Are they just not allowed to share a space with you? That was for, I did two things. That was for a press conference, an international press conference that I hosted. And I did host it from a long run. From a long run. For Nostarge. Exactly. For hijack. Money well spent, people. For hijack. And they were in a different room. And I was in another room hosting the press conference bit of it. That did happen. Are they germphobic? No, but then I got in the same room as them and fully shook Idris' hand and Jim Fieldsmith's hand, the showrunner. And we were together in the same room. But what happened was that Idris remembered I'm an Arsenal fan.

42:08I think I might be wearing this Arsenal jumper as well, the Arsenal jumper I wear quite a lot. That might be more likely than him just saying, Boy, aren't you an Arsenal fan? No, no. The last I interviewed him, I remember we banged on about Arsenal quite a lot. Anyway, this time, and we had very limited time, so we couldn't bang on about Arsenal, but he was quite late to the junket because he'd been filming an interview with our brilliant player Eze that day at the Arsenal training ground, and that was for Sky, and they showed Idris Elba's interview. So Idris Elba's not only now a brilliant actor who's in one of our favourite shows, he's also interviewing Arsenal players now.

42:40Listen, he's coming for your work. I hope you're going to make him feel as bad as you've made me. He just can do it on the fucking podcast. He'll be hosting your press conferences. He's a fan of the pod, remember. He's a friend of the pod. So I watched it on Sky on Sunday, and it was absolutely brilliant. And not only that, of course, as they scored a hat-trick, became the first player since 1978 to score on a hat-trick for Arsenal against Spurs. So yeah, that was the whole brilliant Arsenal-related incident in my Idris Elba chat. And you'll get to hear my chat with Idris Elba and Jim Phil Smith, the showrunner, in January when Hijack goes out.

43:11Yeah. Hijack. Set on a train this time, of course. Yes, it is. And James and I Which blew James' mind when we tried to explain that to him because he was like, how can it happen? What? A train? What is this madness? Yeah. I thought you were going to highlight in the news, by the way, the capture, the news season of the capture that's been there. They showed a picture of your favourite. He's nodding sagely. I am nodding. I did see the announcement. And when is the date, Boyd? They haven't issued a date but they've just said there's a first look picture of your favourite Holiday Granger. There was a picture, but we knew it was coming.

43:43I know that because Holiday literally said it on this podcast. Yeah, we knew it was coming and it's going to be, I think it's going to be early next year is all I'm saying. But there's a description of the storyline, which is that it's been 12 months since Rachel Carey broadcast a live deepfake of a government minister to the nation, exposing the UK Intelligence Service's clandestine video manipulation program, amidst an inquiry into the unlawful case of correction, Carey has become acting commander of counter-terrorism command, determined to regain the public's trust etc. Then there's a brutal but exceptionally well coordinated act of terror that she has to deal with.

44:16I'm interested to see this, not least of all because since the capture started, this has obviously become incredibly topical but also the technology has moved on to such a point now that reality has surpassed what was depicted in the show. So I'm fascinated to see how they handle that. I know what you mean, yeah. It's true. Yeah, it's interesting. And I think the male lead is Cillian Scott by the way, in that show. coming up. I love the capture. Can't wait. It's great, yeah. Excited. Are we done with news? Yeah. We're done with news. Fantastic. Let's move on, as is our tradition, to this week's reviews.

44:51And first up, we begin with the fifth and final season of Stranger Things, which dropped last Thursday on the Netflix. It's been three years since season four of Stranger Things, if you can believe that. A good old way, I would say, by anyone's standards. And nine years since the show began back in 2016. So this has been going for quite a while. The stars, who were kids when this began, are basically in their late 40s at this point. And this does continue the story of Hawkins in Indiana and the kind of encroachment of a parallel hell dimension called The Upside Down and its dream-invading boogeyman Vecna played by Jamie Campbell Bauer.

45:26Who can save them from his evil clutches, Kay? Obviously, it's Millie Bobby Brown. Now, we should say that this isn't the whole of season five. This is the first four episodes of season five. The second tranche of this final season drops on Christmas Eve, a special advance gift from Father Christmas, and then they've saved the finale for New Year's Eve. This is, by any reckoning... You said Boxing Day in the one. No, Christmas Eve. Oh, Christmas Eve. I think it's Boxing Day. It's Christmas Eve. Well, all I can say to you is that it's Christmas Day in the US, for sure. I can show you on the screen here.

46:00This can't be true. That means it's going to be Boxing Day here. I checked it. It says here. I've made up a little song for you. It's called Egg on Your Face, Egg on Your Face. Are we going to get an apology? It's actually, we're both wrong, it's Christmas Day. It's Christmas Day here, so it's not Christmas Eve and it's not Boxing Day. We were both wrong, it's Christmas Day. Who can we trust anymore? The main thing to remember for everyone is that James was wrong. Hey, there was enough wrongness to go around. And also that I came up with a very jazzy little song. You did come up with a good song, to be fair.

46:25All right, so as I said before, it's Christmas Day, Father Christmas will drop it down the chimney and then the finale will air on New Year's Eve. So if you're looking for an excuse not to go out and socialise, which let's be honest I will be we can stay and watch the finale of Stranger Things look look as I'm sure many of you listening to this will doubtless have realised by this point Boyd may have not been quite as wrong as advertised in talking about the dates for Stranger Things it does in fact air the second part on well Christmas Day in the US but crucially Boxing Day here in the UK and the finale does not in fact air on New Year's Eve in the UK although it does in the US.

47:05It airs on New Year's Day here in the UK. Now, look, was I wrong? It's not the right I've ever been. Was I needlessly smug and while also being, crucially, not entirely correct? Possibly. But look, here's the thing. I know and you know that neither Boyd nor Kay listened to this podcast, so they're never going to know. So this will just be just be our little secret. Okay? Thanks. I will just air my opinion that this is a deranged rollout for this final season and it annoys the hell out of me. But that's only because I'm massively entitled. But I do... And I get kind of why they're doing it, but it's the whole cultural event thing, but it's also kind of stretching it out.

47:49Like, it's just like, oh my God, just give us a series already. Anyway, we've got four episodes. They are with us. It's fine. Now, Boydie saw the first episode and eight minutes at the recent premiere. Yes. I did not get screeners for this, so I had to get up at the crack of dawn and watch it before work this morning. But to try and contain myself and to try and, you know, I didn't want to make you feel bad, Boyd. I mean, you know, I'm good that way. What I watched this morning was the first episode, which is an hour and 11 minutes. 11? Accident? I don't think so. An hour and 11 minutes. And then I watched the first eight episodes of season two so that I would be...

48:21Did I say seconds? That would have been a really short period. The first eight episodes. Yeah. I was the first eight episodes. I'm getting very confused. It was the whole Boxing Day, Christmas Eve, Christmas Day thing it's thrown me. Anyway, I watched the first eight minutes of the second episode, which is the bit before the title sequence, so that I got your premiere experience and then only for you to tell me that you got it this morning and watched the rest of it. No, no, no, I haven't watched the rest of it. I literally watched the half of the rest of the episode, which is barely anything with a lot of upside down stuff going on.

48:49He doesn't sleep. No, I don't sleep. So I've barely watched any more than you have. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay, well, remember it's not competition. Absolutely. You have been completely immune to this cultural phenomenon throughout its nine-year run. No, I like to do that every now and again. I know you do. I just really dip out. Yeah. And I dipped in this morning at 6.30. We're going to find out soon if we're going to follow Kame of Friends with Kameja Things. Where Kameja is straight at things. I'm trying here. It's not your best work. Yeah. But, Boydie, tell us what you thought. I thought that...

49:21So it begins with a flashback to when Will, right at the beginning, was captured in the Upside Down, and by Vecna, the kind of big monster of the whole show, if you like, who seems to run the, as you say, the parallel universe, as we call the Upside Down. And that was a kind of, I thought that was quite a clever thing to remind us of how it all began, and they used a kind of de-youth thing, or you-thing thing, CGI on his face, as we got to see the young Will abducted. And really, some really horrible things being said and done to him in that first scene. but this was like I felt a lot of this episode felt like bringing back a lot of things that happened early on in the whole in the whole inception a little bit of retconning going on a little bit of retconning exactly you could put it that way but with added full on violence gore quite quite adult stuff going on I mean it is 15 15 yeah it is a horror series it's always been quite gnarly and as the stuff it has always been quite gnarly but so I would say this feels even more gnarly than it was at the beginning of when the show started.

50:28To me, it felt more gnarly. It's got gnarly as it's got... I've always said the most recent, the fourth season was the goriest, the first season was the scariest, in my opinion. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. But the Duff Brothers always say, it's a show about teenagers, not for teenagers. Right. And I think that's... Even though all kids basically watch it. 100%. Yeah. So I think that... I really like the way it opened. I thought that was interesting. They reminded you that, you know, this trauma, really, that Will endured has, you know, is still affecting him now. and he's kind of seeing visions, kind of upside down-y type visions.

50:58And I think he is going to be the actual four of this whole, the forefront of the four, to the four, at the forefront of this whole final season. And interestingly as well, there's a lot of speculation all the way through. The actor came out as gay, kind of, I think after the last season went out, and they kind of felt like they were hinting at his sexuality. And I think that's going to be addressed full on, as it is in fact a little bit, at all the end, isn't it, of the first episode, beginning of the second episode. So I think that's going to be an interesting element of the whole show. So I think there's a lot about Will.

51:30And then as the rest of the episode got underway, it was like a reminder of all the main characters quite nicely kind of slotted into place. And what you realised was, it reminded me a little bit of, not of Pluribus specifically, but of that method of showing us what all the different characters are up to and then they're all kind of coming together in the end. I think what they're all trying to do is save Hawkins from the monsters in the Upside Down and you see that certainly becomes clear as we see what they're all doing. Like a lot of the late teenage youngsters are all at the college radio station.

52:07Oh, I enjoyed that bit. Yeah, I think the radio station stuff I really liked. Me too. It's a really good setting. Eleven is doing like an assault course thing to show that she's ready to fight when the battle needs to be fought. her adoptive father Lily Allen's ex-husband by the way I couldn't shake that there's something about it's difficult isn't it as someone who doesn't watch the show who's going into it I was like oh it's Lily Allen's ex yeah I forgot about him yeah it's real I think that will have a real impact on people who watch it it's hard to shake that feeling just because he's such I mean he's a good guy in the show now anyway but yeah except everyone's seeing him and they're hearing Pussy Palace play in their head well I had Madeline playing in my head when I was watching it and then I just listened to the album again and then the kids are kind of brought back as well quite cleverly Dustin is being bullied at school and all that there's always been that kind of high school element to it he is and he isn't I mean he kind of is yes but also like he's become like the new Eddie Munson hasn't he and he's quite he's actually he's got proper attitude because they've grown up a lot and we should say Lucas in particular yes yes in what way you teed him up for something he wasn't saying I don't know what that is Well, no, but like, as in Lucas is like quite a big, sporty jock type.

53:22He's become much more physical in this. Like he's got whole, because it's strange to see, like when we saw him, how old were they when we first saw them? Like 13? 12? He was becoming a jock in the last season. Yeah, but he's very much inhabited. Yeah, the jockification has completed in this particular season. 100%. Anyway, all the characters are quite cleverly, nicely brought back to remind us of who they are. And they're all kind of working together, really, to achieve the same ends, which is fighting Vagner and getting into the upside down, sorting out their lives. And I just think it's a really, I think if you get all the hype and the annoying release schedule, I agree with you about that.

54:00It's still a really brilliantly made, it looks incredible, it really is ultra cinematic. Do you see that there's, I thought of you when the Duffer Brothers, one of the Duffer Brothers, Duffer? Duffer Brothers, did a guide to how your television settings on Insta I think I was on Insta or YouTube or something saying do not turn on all these different things you've just got to watch it you've got to make sure you have the right settings and don't use all the clever stupid ones that you get So turn off motion smoothing which you always do anyway Exactly because it does look so good and again I referred to this in Pilot Plus the other day but there's this whole thing about how all Netflix shows look the same they don't this looks incredible in its own right and it has its own visual feel which obviously is still influenced by Steven Spielberg films and all of that but it just looks incredible.

54:45The characters are so well delineated, so well cast. They've all grown up to be really good actors. I think it's interesting because you could see kids of that age when they start out. I remember the early days of Harry Potter thinking, I'm not sure how good some of these actors are, but they've really come good this lot and they're fantastic, I think, pretty much all of them. And then the ending, which is really gnarly, I thought, I was like, yeah, it's going to go places where it hasn't gone before in the sense of it's going to be really, you know, shocking, thrilling, exciting. And sure enough, I think the ending of episode one and the first eight minutes of episode two are pretty great.

55:23I agree. I was quite surprised by that. Yeah. It's full on. So I'm fully here for it and can't wait to watch the rest of it this weekend. I'll be absolutely glued to my Netflix on my television, Kay. I mean, most people listening to this will have already seen it at this point, I would think. That's true, yeah. Instead of binged it over the weekend. yeah exactly people would be like what the fuck are they talking about why aren't they talking about the whole all four episodes that we can now watch Kay Kay of course professional that she has got up this morning watched all four didn't you Kay so tell us I watched one and yeah okay good thanks very much Kay moving on I nearly killed Boyd he nearly choked in his seat I mean it was kind of a ridiculous endeavour because I don't really know the story or understand much of it but I can tell like visually it's very pleasing did you watch the four minute You had to catch up at the beginning, the previous films, things.

56:13To be fair, it's helpful, but also, you know, I mean, it's still confusing. But yes, I watched all, as you say, one hour and 11 minutes of it, and I did my homework. And I can see the appeal. If I had watched it from the beginning, I would be as excited as you guys. It's a late point to kind of come into it. Did it ever make you want to, or is it just not for you? No, because I think it's too, you know, sci-fi. A bit too much. A bit too much. It's a bit too much. I wondered if the nostalgic 80s-ness of it might get you kind of the amblin-ness of it I know, so that's the thing I kind of say it's too much but when I was watching it the characters, as you say, the period details and I was arming and arming thinking, shall I give this a go?

56:55but I just think it's too far down that train is gone, I think Admittedly, I would have thought by the time you get up to date the cultural conversation will have dissipated a little bit Oh, it's always dissipated for me Now, what would you rather I watch? Game of Thrones or Stranger Things? Game of Thrones Yeah, exactly. Only because there's 70-odd episodes and that amuses me to make you watch that. James, you can't have it all. That's true. Yeah. Anyway, did you like it? Oh, yeah. And do you know what? So I... Don't get me wrong, I was looking forward to this, but I wasn't excited. When you sold this monster.

57:23And I re-watched all four seasons of Stranger Things earlier this year. Oh, my God. Yeah, I forgot about that. Why weren't you excited? Do you know what? And that's a good question. Do you know why? Because he likes to be contrary. That's it. No, I was looking forward to it, but I wasn't excited. and I think it's because I like Stranger Things a lot but I don't love Stranger Things. Like I think it's good. But then why would you binge your full series? Because it's been like 15 years since the last season and I couldn't remember a thing. So I was like, and also the first season of Stranger Things is really, really good.

57:52So I really wanted to watch the first season and I was like, well, in for a penny, in for a pound, I'm just going to keep on going. And it is a really good show. Like I enjoyed it but I don't love it. Like for me, it's good but not great I've always felt. I don't know quite why it hasn't really resonated with me in that way but like I say I've always enjoyed it and then so I would come with this I sat down to watch it this morning and I was like yeah okay you know it's fine do you know what very quickly talking to myself talking to myself I was like oh James you know James you're beyond parody I had my little cup of tea and a little bowl of porridge and I wait a minute wasn't it he has tea with honey is it the honey I do have honey in my tea is it Earl Grey no it's just regular old builder's tea you don't have lemon tea with honey Sainsbury's decaffeinated actually if you really want to know regular tea with honey not a lemon element to it no there's no lemon I do have lemon and ginger tea.

58:35I feel like we're getting sidetracked. We are. Sorry, sorry, that's me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just you were setting the scene of how you're talking to yourself in the morning. And I had my porridge and I had my tea, right? Shoving porridge in the mouth. Yeah, that's what was happening. Okay. And obviously I'm in a state of mild amusement, but not excitement. Okay, that's how I begin this. Mild amusement? Yes. It's not comedy. This is how I'm getting into it. I'm looking forward to it, but I'm not excited. And yet, within about five minutes, I was just like, put it this way, at no point did I pick up my phone.

59:03Like, at no point. Oh, the storytelling is brilliant, yeah. Exactly that. But I don't know why. There was something about this, and maybe it is because they're slightly older, because the dynamics have changed, because it feels that there's progression. Perhaps because there's a real edge to this one from the beginning. Because it picks up, if not in media res, it does pick up off the back of season four, and a lot of shit has gone down. And I found this particular, the first episode, incredibly compelling, and it builds to a climax, which is shocking and graphic and gory, and showcases, first of all, how far the effects have come since season one because, you know, there are Demogorgons in this and they look, you know, very different.

59:40Well, not like super different, but they look certainly more sophisticated than they did in season one. And I was really into this. Like, I really, really enjoyed it. And it made me so excited for the rest of the season. So having now watched the first episode and eight minutes, I am now properly excited for the rest of it. Wait, so are you loving it now? Yes. Okay, so what an emotional rollercoaster has been. Yeah, so I've gone from pleased to see it, but otherwise unmoved to properly excited from having now watched this. So, because I spoke to a lot of people, I say a lot of people, one person, and that person...

1:00:14You're such a doofus. The one person I spoke to said that it gave up. Was that your own reflection, by the way? No, it was a separate human. They said that they had given up on so many things, they got bored during season three, which I think is mad, because season three is great. Season three? Yeah. In the mall and everything? Yeah, that's the mall. Oh, I love that season. I was on set for that season. Of course you were. Yeah, this is partly why I really love the show. It's a Starcourt mall. And it's a really good one. It's the second season I understand people getting bored in. Where's it filmed?

1:00:40Atlanta? Yeah. You jammy sword. Yeah, yeah. That was Terry. That was Terry. Terry White. For Pilot TV print magazine, wasn't it? Yeah, Pilot TV was, people may not know, some people may not know, it was a brilliant print magazine. It was. Because it was so good. And we did one issue. Just one. Well, one on its own, and then it became a little magazine supplement within Empire. Exactly, yeah. So a collector's item I'm hearing. Yes, very much so. Absolute collector's item, yeah. But yeah, no, Terry sent me to Atlanta for the international press trip. And it was fucking amazing. Yeah, and I got to, particularly in the mall, which was an actual re...

1:01:12It was a mall that had become, gone to rack and ruin, basically, been left, as there are loads in America that you often get into tragic small towns with unused malls. And it was one of those. And they completely transformed it into this 80s place. And I got to watch... Now, is that feature available to read anywhere? I don't think we ever put it online. I mean, yeah, it was in the magazine. It was in the magazine. Oh, not online. Not online, no. No, I don't think so, yeah. But I do feel, because I interviewed them all for that feature, pretty much, that, you know, so it's partly my love for the show is definitely...

1:01:42That's fair. ...multiplied by that, yeah. And that was just me, which I thought was great. But this one, again, one person I spoke to, said they'd given up. I was saying, if anyone has given up for whatever reason, definitely go back, because it's worth it. if nothing else you've heard the emotional journey we've been with James on this and he's come around to that point of loving it so you might also be one of those people who changed their opinion definitely yeah yeah People will. People will follow the James Path. Yeah, I think so. I mean, not too closely, hopefully. No, no. Right, okay, that is Stranger Things, which is screaming, it's screaming now on the Netflix.

1:02:20I think it's also going to be in cinemas on New Year's. Oh, is it? The finale's going to be in cinemas. Yeah, I believe, yeah. They said that at the premiere, yeah. And people will flock to see it. They will? Indeed. Next up this week, we have Russell T. Davis' new Hooniverse, Hooniverse spinoff, which is a miniseries on BBC One called The War Between the Land and the Sea. And this stars Russell Tovey and Gugu Mbata Roar and features the return of the Sea Devils. Boydie, sadly, is, of course, in the flipper of Big Sea Devil. So cannot impartially talk about this, being close personal friends with both Russells.

1:02:54In fact, we're all kind of like, we're all in the pocket of Big Russell. We're all butterflies. We are. We're all butterflies in Russells. I don't know. What do they keep butterflies in? Anyway, whatever. But Kay and I are consummate professionals. Yes. So we will attempt to carry this. Said no one. Kay, tell me about the war between the land and the sea. Okay, buckle up. I've got a lot of things to say about this. Okay. Yes. So, as you've said, like James and I, that was my first time meeting Russell, by the way, at the live pod. Oh, was it? Yeah. And what a delightful man he is. So I really like him.

1:03:27So this has coloured, obviously, my opinion, maybe. Because, you know, when you've met someone or you know someone or whatever, like you just naturally um have a propensity to like whatever they produce however right so when i was watching this some of us professionals care but you carry on yeah no i'm not i like i'm not that person i do get i do get influenced by if someone yeah anyways when this when this first like uh was playing out and i was like okay cool i liked it anyway because um russell tovey it's you know he's this character who is an everyman and he finds himself um kind of on this mission that he didn't sign up for, he's unqualified for, and he's very much out of his depth.

1:04:07And it kind of explores, his name's Barkley, and it explores his dynamic with his ex and his child, which I really enjoy, because, you know, I'm very, like, love the relationship elements of dramas. And then when the sea creatures appeared, I was like, okay, one appeared. I was like, okay, I can handle this. And then more, like, there's loads appearing. And I was like, oh, okay, maybe this isn't really for me, my kind of show, right? But Doctor Who is one of your favorite shows, so. I enjoyed the episode we watched James I know you can't believe it yeah anyway so I was like oh maybe like this is just maybe not my kind of show even though I enjoy the Russell Tovey elements and etc as in meaning it might be really super sci-fi and like whatever I don't know what happened right because towards the end of this first episode I mean I was enjoying it for the storytelling of course anyway but I was like I got sucked in in such a way like I texted Boy because I really wanted to talk about it instantly and obviously James you'll be happy to hear he shut me down and said, cannot spoil it.

1:05:00Yes, rightly so. I was like, please, I need to talk to you about it because I don't know what happened, but I was just sucked in by the storytelling, yeah, but it's more than that. Boyd had said to us yesterday, after our record, he said, make sure you watch episode two. Did you watch episode two, James? I did. I was going to watch it anyway because at the end of one, I felt compelled to anyway, but I had Boyd's voice ringing in my ears. Probably that contributed to the tinnitus I was experiencing. Yeah, oh God, sorry. and I'm so happy I did because it is fantastic and it just really grabs the word I would use is I was captivated by the whole thing because not only is it spectacular to look at and there's an element so the humans are meeting with the fish people I'm calling them sea devils or homo aqua and it's done in the way that the meeting is facilitated physically it's just very fascinating to me and I love that, the spectacle of it and all the, James is zoned out by looking at me and it's terrifying just so you know.

1:06:04And, you know, things that happen in that episode, which I won't spoil, it's so extraordinary to look at. The money is on the screen, you can see it. And part of me was like, how does, like, Boyd, you'll know this, and it's a really kind of basic question, I'm sure, but like when Russell's writing this stuff, does he have, like, does he draw images of what these creatures are going to look like? Because how does that all, you know, like... Well, these creatures go back to, in Doctor Who lore. So they were first seen in 1972. Oh, okay. Yeah, so they're old monsters that he has revived. They've been slightly redesigned, but I think he would liaise with the designers to come up with the look, yeah.

1:06:41I didn't know the connection. I mean, the Doctor is mentioned, of course, but I didn't realise it was, you know, throwback apologies. Yeah, so it's set in the Doctor Who universe without the Doctor is kind of the key, yeah. So he uses a lot. So the Sea Devils from Doctor Who unit, you know, led by Gemma Rego's character, Kate, they're from Doctor Who. So those are the elements that are in Doctor Who. So what's interesting is, I could sense the connection, but I didn't, because I hadn't read around it. And actually, what I love about this is, I'm not a Whovian, right? As you know. But this feels like a show for me, because I got stuck into the storytelling and the characters, and I'm going to talk a bit more about that.

1:07:20But I felt I was included, right? Because I'm at the beginning, it felt like I was at the beginning of the journey with this, rather than trying to play catch up or like left behind because I don't have that, you know, I'm not aware of the rich history of Doctor Who. So yeah, the character called Salt, right? Now I'm going to say something that you're going to love because I sound like a massive nincompoop, but I know that Gugu's in this, right? Right. But when I was watching it, because I was watching this character called Salt, who's the leader of the, what do you call them? Sea Devils. The Homo Aqua.

1:07:49And I was looking at this character and I was like, oh my God, they're so mesmerizing. Like they're beautiful. and the connection between the salt and the ambassador I just find really compelling and it's only like all the way through the second episode I was like oh my god it's Gugu what an idiot I didn't she's not a heavy prosthetic to be fair she is and also blue and just mesmerising so yeah I just I really enjoyed it and I think the reason why I loved it particularly is because RTD is delivering a message here it's not subtle it's like this is what humans are doing to our natural environment, to the planet, to the seas, it's got to stop.

1:08:30And he just is so forceful and passionate about it. And I love that because not all storytelling needs to be loaded with those kind of social messages, political messages, etc. But when done well, and he does it with real creativity and flair, it can be really impactful. And I think this is going to be impactful. And I also like the fact, sorry, as you can tell, I've been bottling this all up. I really like the fact that he's gone there he's used his power his storytelling to do this and I really love that there's going to be a section of viewers who get up in arms you know certain types of viewers who are like oh he's woke agenda and shoving it down our throat yes because it should be shoved down our throats and it's done in a really entertaining compelling way so yes I loved it and genuinely I wish I had more on my preview screeners because I could have watched another three or four episodes that's brilliant I think that's so good to hear because part of the whole point of what he was trying to do was create a show where you didn't have to be a Doctor Who.

1:09:28You can watch it if you've never watched Doctor Who at all. You'll get a little bit more out of it if you have watched Doctor Who and you're aware of the history of Sea Devils and all that, but not a tiny little amount. And there's a couple of references to the Doctor made in it. But it's very much its own story. And as you say, he is dramatising the environmental disaster that's happening. One of the main reasons I wanted you to see episode two as well because that final the finale episode two is this they call it the plastic apocalypse where she where um no spoilers yeah don't spoil it no spoilers spoiler honestly we just stopped in there thanks extraordinary it is an unbelievably spectacular sequence brilliantly done and very practical practical effects rather than CGI and it's just beautifully done I think this is the most visually impressive thing of Doctor Who ever.

1:10:24Literally ever. I mean, production values have gone up. James always takes the piss out of it. Is this Disney money? Yeah, this is in from the... There's a lot of Disney. The last bit of Disney money. Yeah, this is the last bit of Disney money. Although, in fact, of course, they filmed this, I don't know, maybe a year ago, I think. Yeah, so this has still got Disney money in it. But it feels like it's got more Disney money in it than, you know, per episode than the regular Doctor Who did. I just think it looks incredible. I visited the set as well. and that huge, big indoor space, you know, where all of the politicians gather.

1:10:55I love that. Yeah, that's all that big. It is huge. Yeah, none of it is CGI. There's no volume. I remember saying to the producer, because James is obsessed with this thing called the volume that is overused by particularly like fantasy sci-fi shows where everything's on a digital screen effectively. Oh, right. Or digital. And Doctor Who's used the volume quite a lot itself, but this doesn't. It's in the tool. So the water element, is that all? well the water CGI yeah there wasn't a gigantic tank of water well you know Disney Dollar does go fast yeah but all those big spaces and the space where the unit team led by General Rego's character Gather and that's also that's within the bigger set it's just spectacular it was just spectacular just walking into it you know how actors often say when they're talking about real sets that are built and they're not just pretending they're looking at a green screen and they bang on about how it helps their prompts I actually believe it because it is so incredible to walk into this huge space.

1:11:51And you get that sense via the character of Russell, Tony's character, who I, by the way, I just, I love him anyway, right? Got a bit of a soft spot for him. And he's so good in this. And he's the, like, he is us. He's the viewer, obviously. He's the everyman. He is the everyman boy, but what I would say is, and I'm going to say something about his physicality to even it up with Goo Goo, because obviously I was like saying how beautiful she is. And Russell is a very handsome gentleman. and he is so hench that's the only aspect of him that is not every man it was actually distracting at times genuinely distracting to me he looked like he should have been in the army he's been hit in the gym hard I mean he's always in the gym anyway he loves the gym good for us it's not new it's paid off and that suit was extremely well tailored yes I thought that let me tell you without spoiling anything you're going to see a lot more of him in future episodes boys do you know what I say to you?

1:12:43bring it on There's a lot of sea action in the sea that he did himself because he loves swimming in the sea. And there's a lot of coming to terms with water, shall we say. But a great character, Barclay. He is a brilliant character. I also think this is one of his best performances ever, if not his best performances ever, because he gets to do everything in this. He gets to emote. He gets to be quite funny, wryly funny. He is literally like the guy, do you remember I made it to on the news when the guy who was like a driver ended up being interviewed on BBC News instead of the person he was driving to the studio.

1:13:15And he just sat there, this guy, and they carried on asking him questions about this news story that he had no idea about because he's just a driver. And in this, he's just the man who books the cars. And it's such a funny, brilliant idea that Russell came up with for that. But also, can I just say one thing? Sorry to interrupt. Something really amusing is the fury of the guy who actually was meant to be. I love that. That name, which is a really complicated name. This was discussed at the Q &A, by the way, that Russell came up, T Davies came up with a really difficult name for Russell Tovey to say whose place he was taking, yeah, in the scheme of things.

1:13:49But I think, yeah, that's such a great idea because it does make you watch the whole thing unfold before your eyes, through his eyes. There's a brilliant shot where she says, I want that guy there to deal with him and the camera honed, there's a massive zoom in on him and that's just a brilliant moment. So I think, but what he has to deal with when he's dealing with his family and he ends up having basically being in the position of saving the world, effectively. It's just brilliantly done. Everyone in it is great. And it just goes places you may well not expect as well in the subsequent three episodes that are fabulous.

1:14:26There's all kinds of genres. You can't narrow it down. It's not just sci-fi. It's got fantasy. It's got romance. That's what surprises me, Boyd, right? James, can you imagine my shock watching this? And like I said, at first it was like, oh, is it because I just love RTD? And I really love the Tovey storyline. But for all that other stuff to happen, which I won't ruin, and me to be even more compelled, I was like, oh my God, get it in my eyeballs. Genuinely, I'm so surprised at my reaction to it. That's why I texted Boyd. And now just to bring us all down, we have to find out what James thinks.

1:14:58Well, Boydy. It's fair to say I have had a mixed history with Doctor Who as a franchise. Very much enjoyed the Shooty Gut one. Oh yeah, you did. Especially the early bottle episodes from the first Shooty Gut one season where like the 73 yards, 74? I can't remember the number. Yes, I think it's 73. Just to say the guy who directed that directed this. Right, okay, Dot and Bubble, all that sort of stuff. Really enjoyed all of those. So I enjoy those kind of standalone ones almost more than the mythology ones, actually, which was true of the X-Files as well. So coming into this, I was apprehensive, especially because I was at war between the land and the sea.

1:15:33I don't know anything about sea devils, whatever. So, you know, and yet, and yet, surprisingly early on in this, I was just like, I'm enjoying this a lot more than I thought I was. Yes, James. And it got to the point where when you get to, I mean, it's not a courtroom drama, but it has a similar vibe to that. When you get to this sort of the, let's call it a summit, when you get to the summit between the land and the sea, these very pointed discussions, I really, really enjoyed that. And I think it's a combination of facts. I think partly it's quite, I like the themes that they're talking about, I love the way that, you know, it's being put together.

1:16:06These are quite, as you say, the environmental agenda, I think is kind of very cogently put together and very powerfully conveyed. But there's something inherently enjoyable about watching someone who feels out of his depth and isn't qualified having to do a thing, but then going off script and just speaking from the heart. And it's quite, there's an elation that you feel every time he goes off script and does his own thing. You're like, God, you fucking tell him, Barkley. And yeah, it's great. And Boydie was like, you must watch the second one as well. Very similar to you, I could not stop watching it.

1:16:36I want more, though. Yeah, I really, really enjoyed this so much more than I thought I would. I think you've identified it. That was the moment in the first episode that I just got sucked in. And it was like what you're describing as, you know, the summit. Yeah. That was the turning point. I was like, oh my God, this is really like interesting. And like, I just love it. The innovative. It's a great setup. But I think also you've got two really compelling performances. And I think both Russell and Gugu are really quite just overwhelmingly charismatic in those roles. And there's a lot of emotional nuance to it.

1:17:08I really, really enjoyed all that stuff. when it moves away from those scenes you know the family stuff it fleshes it out more but for me like the juice what I really wanted was that confrontation between the two of them like any scene where it's Gugu and Russell talking to each other I was like I cannot take my eyes off it last thing because I will stop banging on about it the other detail I love about Gugu and all of the fish people the sea devils the ears you know they're so delicate when they start going back they're like gills yeah little head fins of course the gills not the ears I mean they're more fins they're more fins yeah that's true oh yeah no it's a brilliantly designed prosthetic I'm thrilled that you like it I think it is and there's loads more of them the other thing I was going to say is that this feels now someone told me that Torchwood did this once well like a mini series that feels more adult than mainstream Who and this for me felt pitched slightly older in age or slightly less universal in theme than regular Who and obviously that you know given that I'm quite sneery and superior and all that so genuinely so I I very much appreciate it but it still has that you know Whovian playfulness to it what I have previously described as silly I will admit that but there is a playfulness just the very fact that they call them homo aqua do you know what I mean there's an accessibility and a playfulness to it so that's still familiar like it's not it's not like it doesn't have Who's DNA like you feel the DNA in it but it feels like it's like Who after dark do you know what I mean it's like Baywatch nights like it feels like it's Who but it's that little bit closer to the watershed.

1:18:38But it's still family friendly. No pun intended. Sorry, water joke. Well, no, you're right. It is deliberately. I think the way Russell Tudow's putting it, he wants everyone to enjoy it who may not have thought of watching Doctor Who. But Torchwood was effectively a prime time adult friendly thing set in the universe of Doctor Who. But I think this is, and some of it was great. There was a Miracle Day, I think it was the most recent one, which was in 2011. and they definitely did kind of tackle really interesting ideas and issues and they felt more grounded in reality than regular Who perhaps and this feels like but I think this is a massive step on and step up and step whatever What time is this going out?

1:19:18I was going to mention that so the scheduling is really interesting it's at 8.30 so they're showing two episodes 8.30, 9.15 so it's 8.30 to 10 so it goes into prime time into the watershed after the watershed and they're showing the first two episodes and then the next two the following week and then the finale which is pretty much an hour, I think, on the 21st. I also like those five eps. Yeah, and they're not putting them all out in one go. But you get to see them all just before Christmas if you want to save them. Can we see them earlier, but that's the crucial thing. I think so, yeah. I've seen them all.

1:19:48Of course you have. By the way, it gets better and better and better. And the ending is phenomenal. Bring it on. They're just classic Russell today. He co-wrote it with a guy called Peter McTighe, by the way, you should credit. And he did the second episode. So he did a really good job there. And the director, who I mentioned, Dylan Holmes-Williams, who did 73 Yards, is absolutely brilliant. I mean, what he does, I don't know what... It looks big budget, right? I mean, you of all people, you're very snooty when it comes to things cheap. Snooty and gooty. And I think the whole thing looks really impressive.

1:20:20It's quality all the way through. And I think huge kudos for that should go to the director. I think a huge kudos should go to the money people at Disney for funneling tons of cash into this series. I haven't Russell for getting the money from Disney in the first place. Yeah. But it's brilliant, yeah. I'm delighted that you... It's not just me. Yeah. Yeah. The war between the land and the sea, then. So it starts this Sunday, yeah, the 7th, 8.30 BBC One. Okay. Finally this week, we have Spartacus House of Asher on MGM +, which I can tell from Kay's expression she thoroughly enjoyed. This is a belated part sequel, part reboot of Spartacus Blood and Sand, which aired in 2010.

1:21:02And it actually had a number of different incarnations, so just to give you some background if you're not aware. But Spartacus Blood and Sand started in 2010. The lead who played Spartacus, Andy Whitfield, was diagnosed with stage four cancer while they were making the show. So season two of this became this sort of standalone prequel series called Spartacus Gods of the Arena with different characters. And then, very sadly, Andy Whitfield passed away. And so they recast Liam McIntyre as Spartacus and he continued for the next two seasons, which were Spartacus Vengeance and Spartacus War of the Damned, where he led this sort of slave rebellion against Rome and it was a whole thing.

1:21:32Now, madly, House of Asher, and as Lucy Lawless is kind enough to return from the underworld to explain to us a very helpful prologue, is a weird retcon, and stay with me on this, where Nick E. Taraby's character, Asher, did not, in fact, help Spartacus lead a rebellion, which of course he did, but instead stopped said rebellion by killing him with a spear. so this is like a weird multiversal fever dream alternate history retcon reboot whatever you want to call it where it's altered history and it sees Asher take over the house of Batiatus which was John Hanna's character and become dominus of this gladiator school effectively putting us back where the show very much began in 2010 so it's a really really fucking weird conceit now for those of you who have never seen Aspartacus these are ostensibly Roman period dramas, but really, these are shows that specialize in three Bs.

1:22:32Blood, boobs, and balls. And let me tell you, all three of those things are in a plenty in this particular show. But Boydie, tell us, does this receive from you a thumbs up or a thumbs down? Well, I'm glad you explained the whole history of the show because I remember watching the first season of the first series. I watched, I watched, I didn't watch all of it, I watched the first two seasons. But when, when Spartacus was recast I don't think I ever watched No, I think I'm the same I'm the same but I remember the first season and I remember quite clearly how preposterous it was and how a lot of it was just who's the Scottish actor from season one who you mentioned Yes, which is Andy Whitfield Andy Whitfield and the whole set up of being like this gladiator school and the guy kind of them training them Jai Courtney's in there with his knob out and then after doing some fighting with each other they'd then retire to the shower area or the cleaning area and just be completely naked with all their dicks.

1:23:31This is presented in 3D willy vision. Exactly. And then you'd be random, there'd be random sex scenes between the slave-owning guy and his various female partners and they'd be incredibly gratuitously sexy and full of nudity and there'd be loads of copious amounts. Everyone would be fucking this, fucking that and calling each other C-words left, right and centre. It's like a festival. and because it was on Starz the channel was called Starz with a Z and Starz Play was the British version the European version and the speciality of this channel, Kay was adult-oriented boobs and blood boobs, blood, dicks yeah, you name it full frontal galore violence, gore limbs being hacked off the whole thing is like an exercise in reviving that tone from the original series created by it I have to say the brilliantly known Stephen...

1:24:26E. De Knight. E. De Knight is such a brilliant name. It could only be the creator of this ludicrous show. And now you've got this Nick E. Tarabay playing the character... Who's a returning character. Yeah, a returning character who is completely ridiculous and over-the-top and demented. The whole show is fucking nuts. But this particular thing, it just looks and feels exactly like the very first episode that I remember watching. Well, it's essentially to reset the timeline. Yeah, it's kind of like a remake. It's wild. It's mad. It's a sequel and also a complete remake. It's deranged. It's deranged.

1:24:58And sure enough, but the funniest bit, there's some brilliant bits where he's having sex with, he's having sex with two women in the first five seconds. Yes, Greedy. Greedy. And then there's another sex scene called Velvet Him, and then there is this brilliant bit where all of the fighters... The gladiators gather. They're a big confab in the baths. Which I've renamed Cockfest 2025. I mean, it is. It's peens aplenty. It's trying to outdo the White Lotus, Euphoria. Oh, it succeeded. Articles to be written about the proliferation of penises. Also, you know, credit where credit's due, they are all significantly endowed.

1:25:33Well, except, of course, I think there's a lot of prosthetics going on. And in fact, in the titles, there was prosthetic design. I'm like, I know what he was doing. That's the cock man. The cock man. But it is. The cock man comers. That's right. But it is utterly shit. It's like, you know, the dialogue is terrible. Well, but the thing is, you've hit on something which I had forgotten that Spartacus did when it first saw it. They use, they all speak in English, but they use Latin syntax. So their word order is really weird. But swearing at the same time. Yeah, so they drop in fucks and shits and cocks, literally.

1:26:15but they also they lose the definite article and the indefinite article completely so it's like I come to podcast to spit and so they miss out key words in the sentence yeah there are no thes there are no a's they don't tend to use use they just use the exact kind of like sentence structure that you would have if you were speaking actual Latin and it's really fucking confusing yeah so instead of saying thank you they just go gratitude yeah but then they go no but then they go gratitude then they go but you're all a bunch of fucking cunts that's like that is the confusion No, but you all cunts.

1:26:47Like, they wouldn't actually put in the... No, it would be gratitude caucus. Yes, it would. Yeah, I don't think it's as consistent as that. I think they veer away from it. Well, see, I was trying to work out, and they do, but I think it's class-related. I felt like, as you go up the echelons in class, that the more Roman ones who would be speaking Latin, they're the ones who do it. Whereas the peasant class, who are speaking a fuck-knows-what, they don't seem to do it as much. But it is inconsistent, definitely, but I think it's deliberate. I mean, this thing, my summary is, this is wild. it's wild it's confusing it's like I said Cockfest 2025 I was just like I was sitting there just thinking to myself what am I watching what am I watching well penises Kate you were watching penises but it was just it was just insane it's insanity but I like listen if this is your bag I had to watch this on the Northern Line can I just say that you didn't I literally watched I thought of you because I thought you can't be watching this it was so awkward and also my iPad is massive as well so I was trying to Show off.

1:27:44First of all, his sword, now his iPad. I was having to angle it away from the people next to me. I was thinking I must have been such a pervert. You could get arrested watching this in public. It's so porny. And I was like, oh, good. And genuinely, the second we cut to the bathroom, I was like, oh, fucking hell. And I was like, there's no avoiding this. You're that guy that people go into their office and go, oh my God, this guy on the Northern Line. It's just watching porn. To give it credit, it's a bit, you know, Ryan Murphy in the sense that, you know, it is quite aware of how ridiculous. Yes, it is.

1:28:13It is. It's a way of how ridiculously over the top and stupid and basic and gratuitous. Carry on Spartacus. This is the definition of gratuitous sex violence, gore and swearing. Yeah. It's literally the whole point of it. The whole point of this show is not to recreate a historical time and educate us in the world of The Gladiator. It is to show us tits, arse, knobs and swearing. And lots of blood. My favourite bit that summed up the whole tone of this show was early on when there's a scene where they're publicly gathering, there's thousands gathering, watching them fighting each other and women show their tits and show their boobs.

1:28:49Yeah, it was like a Mexican wave with their toes. Like we kind of fit in gratuitous even into this sequence. It is hilariously stupid. Yeah. There's also a moment where there's a very unsavoury celebration of a victory. I won't go into it, but I was like, okay. Which also involves a prosthetic penis. Yeah, well, I wouldn't want to speculate, but I was just like, why do I have to let this? Quite a show for the statistics. It's full on. I mean, it's just insane. But it's insane for the same many reasons. And it's funny that it's on MGM Plus, by the way. So MGM Plus is now the show that has Robin Hood, remember?

1:29:22Oh, okay, yeah. And what was the one I did? Billy the Kid, which is now finished, to be fair. And now they've got this Spartacus spin-off thing. It's like they're just doing blokes who are famous and mythic from history, and we just throw swearing and nudity and sex into the whole thing. That's their raison d 'etre. I think I'd rather take the prosthetics of the sea devils yeah fair enough yeah well well Spartacus House of Asher then which lands on MGM Plus are you going to ask me I am going to ask you Boyder yes God come on Boyd I've got I've picked up the wrong issue you've got one job oh unbelievable he's got one job he doesn't know what it is fine it is Saturday the 6th of December MGM Plus so yeah oh yeah the show starts on Saturday which is quite unusual in the world of streaming services Yes.

1:30:11Okay, what is our pick of the... Oh, no, we have to go through the other things, don't we? What we've mentioned here, what else is on? Yeah, he's through the copy of his magazine. So, the aforementioned The Abandons, which we know now... That's right, which we're doing on Pilot Plus. On the Flicks. Yeah. The Abandoned Abandons. That's on the Flicks on Thursday. Yeah. Talamasca, which we couldn't get screened as four, that dropped today, Monday, December 1st, on Netflix, which is the next instalment, the Anne Rice-iverse. So, it's connected to Interview the Vampire and the Mayfair Witches. it's about the kind of secret order of supernatal James seems to be the only person watching all of these shows and he's the only person who seems to know that this show was coming to Netflix apparently I am because it's not in any of the Netflix things and it is there today I promise you okay well it's on his kitchen calendar circles yeah even if you've got the dates for the hey let's not go there again I just did it I can show you anyway did anyone watch Mammoth series one did you watch Mammoth no I didn't I watched the first episode of the second series it's a fun show it's on BBC2 today at 10 o 'clock it's like about a guy who comes back he's been frozen in time in the 70s and he comes back documentary is it James would call it silly it's silly it is silly it's unashamedly silly it's gently amusing but Mike Bubbins is in it and he created it and he's very funny I think what else is there sorry I'm flicking through oh A Knock on the Door this is the play for today you were talking about earlier you reviewed that's on 5 on Thursday at 9 o 'clock the one with Alan Davis there's a thing oh Say Nothing do you remember the big IRA Historical Journal which was brilliant.

1:31:40That is getting a Channel 4 screening from today, Monday at 9 o 'clock. They're showing the whole thing over the next few weeks which is a very good thing. Now, The Hunt, I'm looking at here, was supposed to be on Apple TV. No, this is a French TV drama. But they've removed it. They're not letting it go out. Allegiant plagiarism. Because allegations of plagiarism. We should have covered that in news. That was a news story. Meanwhile, the savant still hasn't aired. Savant still, yeah. They should be on savant instead. because that controversy surely oh yeah they hit pause on that yeah they did um uh Portrait Artists the final that's your think that was on Wednesday um and that's about it I think okay picks of the week Sea Devils the war between the land and the sea it's a very long title is all I would say that's my only bit of feedback but yeah that's my pick I loved it it would be between that and Stranger Things for me I plan to put them on a level if I'm honest with you always be honest always be honest yeah probably the same but I'm going to go I'm going to single out the war between as I'm calling it.

1:32:37Good stuff. All right, well, that's it for this week's show. Very exciting stuff. We'll be back in your ears next week, obviously, but before then, please do subscribe to Pilot Plus and buy a subscription for people you love and people you hate. Really, everyone. Buy them for everyone in your life. Indeed. Empire.supportingcast.fm And please leave us a five-star review on whatever platform you so choose. That would be great. If you want to write it as a poem, that is fine, but don't feel that you have to. On next week's show, I don't know what we'll be covering, but it might involve Dark Winds possibly season 3 which comes to you in Alibi Percy Jackson returns to Disney Plus no Kay is shaking her head Man vs Baby comes back to Netflix no I'm shaking my head I mean look I think we can there's lots of stuff Revenge Club comes to Paramount Plus yes I want to watch that Irish Blood comes to Sky Witness but look let's be honest there is a big show this week and we will be covering it because it is the most important thing it airs on Friday the 12th December and it is the first episode of Taylor Swift the end of an era on Disney Plus come on I predict I'm going to be terribly unwell and won't be able to attend the recording I'm sorry it's going to be great we should just dedicate the whole show to it suddenly we're reviewing a documentary maybe it's more than a documentary it's a cultural milestone I'm embarrassed for you saying those words out loud but anyway before we wrap up can we just wish Boyd very good luck for tonight yes thanks you'll know that the Newsmates Statesman guys won but you're our winner as voted for by people yes thank you you'll always be our columnist of the year he's our boy there of the year although having said that if we're talking columnist of the year that guy from House of Asher was probably a contender very good and on that note pilot out

1:34:31Thank you.

1:35:01Thank you.