Sugar and The Agency

27:37I believe in being comprehensive. Yes, he likes to wax lyrical. Go on. Go on. See, Boyd, this must be a tricky question for you. It is. Because everything is your back. Exactly. Exactly. That is the point to be made, is that I am open to all genres of television, and I'm not small-minded or snobbish. There must be something. There must be something. No, I've come up with two. Animation. Do you know what? Animation is a good point. I didn't think of that. I should have thought of that. The mind is still sealed to that, is it? Oh, yeah, completely. Well, no, like, you know, there is some animation I do like and admire.

28:06I mean, The Simpsons is a brilliant show, animated show. You may have heard of it. Topical. It's been going for like 30 years. What a niche reference. It's very niche. It's very obscure. But I was reminded of it recently, how brilliant it can be, because of Cape Fear, because the Cape Fear episode that you talked to Javier Bartem about is absolute masterpiece. Anyway, no, but I forgot about my issues with animation, but that would have been a good suggestion. but I thought of a couple of shows that I wouldn't have necessarily bothered watching or getting that excited about until they then arrived and I watched them properly so Bridgerton I remember when Bridgerton started if there's a genre that I'm not entirely thrilled by in general it's historical period drama like that don't you love Downton Abbey?

28:55yeah but we're both in the same boat on that one Downton Abbey Downton? Downton Abbey is Downton Abbey is an example of a show that I wasn't that excited about either but then you start watching it and oh it's incredibly addictive and fantastically exciting show it wouldn't be the kind of thing I'd normally gravitate towards and similarly with Bridgerton even more really because Bridgerton I don't know I just thought it wasn't going to be for me basically based on a series of romance novels probably basically for reasons of sexism I probably thought you know this is like for women I am a rampant sexist I'm known for it thank you if not a misogynist but I must admit I would have thought oh it's adapted from a series of romantic novels you know am I really bothered by that but anyone not watching the video he's scrunching up his face as he says this but no no no but I watched it and I acknowledged that it was a really good particularly to start with the first couple of seasons were really good and the other one I thought of is I remember when this show came when it was about to arrive this show right and I remember the publicist a couple of publicists emailing me it's BBC publicist this is your clue can you guess what the show is saying I know there's loads of shows in this genre but this is really exceptional and this is really something special you just have to watch it and then you will admit or you will agree with us even though we're BBC TV publicists that this is a special special thing motherland no can you give us the genre if I give you the genre you'll get it put it that way I think you'll get it.

30:29I have absolutely no idea. It's too broad, but yeah. Yeah, okay. It's a terrible clue. I'll give you the genre. Okay. Reality TV. Oh, good God. Traitors, of course. The traitors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, what? Who gives a shit? Now you definitely give a shit. But hang on, but you like reality TV. No, well, you say that. I am open to the best of reality TV. I'm not that into reality TV. I don't watch Love Island. I've hardly ever watched it in my life. so I don't watch I used to watch Towery but you watch Big Brother and you watch Race Across the World but Big Brother's not on anymore I watched yeah but you did back in 1999-2000 when it had the start of heat I watched it for a few years yeah but I haven't watched Big Brother for years so I know you because you're such a snob you regard anyone who even acknowledges that reality TV can be good or worth watching is a reality TV fan but in fact I'm not really and yeah you are a HeyU subscription don't you I know you do I don't have HeyU Don't let him wind you up.

31:26I know. But the thing about the Tracers I found, I don't know if you agree, is that when it first got presented to us, it's not an easy one to explain. Exactly. And it comes across as being very dull, and you just think, oh God, I can't be able to do this. You have to, the watching experience. Some shows you just, whatever the premise is, and whatever the press release says, they're not going to convey the sheer joy of watching that show. And this was, and of course a lot of that's down to Claudia. And I was like, oh, Claudia presents it, yeah. But I'm not a big Strictly fan, for example, you know.

31:53Yeah, I mean, I mean, that's one of your biggest flaws. Right. But the traitors just, they were absolutely right. And I immediately, I remember going, they're going, watch two or three episodes and I'm like, you're absolutely right. This is phenomenal. On paper, not exciting. Yeah. On TV. Extraordinary. Yeah. So I think I've answered the question. Can I give just an addendum to what you were talking about? You know, the period dramas. If anyone is like Boyd, I'm, you know, a bit close-minded to period dramas. I'm not close-minded. I would highly recommend the other Bennet sister. Oh, yeah. I love that.

32:21It was so good. We reviewed that on the podcast, and I loved it, yeah. I'm open to it. It's just an extra recommendation. Boyd's vice-like closed mind can be prized open. Just a touch. Talking of which. Yeah, speaking of which. The animation thing I hadn't thought of, but you're absolutely right, Arcane would be the answer for the animation, because I loved Arcane, and as you know, I never willingly sit down and watch cartoons. Exactly. But that is fantastic. Honestly, so many shows, I don't even know where to start. Actually, to be fair to him, I know I always rag on him for doing like 5 ,000 answers, but he should have 5 ,000 answers.

32:56I mean, genuinely, because there are so many shows that we have done over the years that I, in a million years, would never have sat down and watched voluntarily. Yeah. You know, the one that I've used before is Dominic Savage's I Am series, which again, you never, this kind of verite style, social realist, largely improvised drama, I would never have watched that. And it's quite singular and it's incredible. So that was a big one that kind of opened my eyes to things. I mean even more recent ones like Waiting for the Out from earlier this year which again is not something I would watch Dear England I never in a million years would have voluntarily watched do you remember I was telling you about I was talking on the podcast about how there's a BBC trailer that says that quotes the podcast and it says Empire's Pilot TV podcast and it is for Dear England is it?

33:43yeah that's the trailer which is on constantly at the moment in the football did you just say I didn't hate it James Dyer it says it's really good or whatever by Empire's Pilot TV Podcast it's a strange thing to refer to it's fine that's fine it's good that they recognise that but yeah I never would have watched a football thing I mean weirdly even like I was going to say off campus but actually off campus is weirdly something I 100 % would have watched no not even that I like a romance I like a teen drama so yeah that actually probably is more also he likes not suitable stuff for the Northern Line oh yeah yeah I like that not suitable for the Northern Line I like your valiant an attempt to train with some kind of pervert.

34:21Yeah, always. Do you not remember how many times like last year he was watching stuff and we were like, James, stop watching it on the train. Watching the porn on the train, never a good idea. Honestly, both Tiptoe and Adolescents are probably shows I wouldn't have watched otherwise. But anything with Alice in it, Alice and Steve, Alice and Jack, all of the Alice shows, those are ones that I would never watch. They're just shows that wouldn't have been on my very sci-fi-centric radar. And yeah, I have watched and hugely enjoyed. Still no shrinking, James? Still no shrinking. That is not one I would have watched and frankly isn't one that I am watching.

34:57Okay, I'm going to get Steph to work on you. She'll do it. Yeah, it's been brought up. But yeah, no, it's one of the delights of doing this podcast is that it has opened my eyes to different sort of genres and tones of television that I wouldn't otherwise have done it. Obviously, Kay, on the other hand, remains incredibly close-minded and has not broadened her perspective. No, you're absolutely right. The war between the land and the sea is an example of that. ridiculous human being. I've missed that, you calling James a ridiculous human being. It's say what you see. Roy Walker star. Okay, good.

35:29Old school. Yeah. That's what we reference for the youngsters. Stephen Marlhan, yeah. Catchphrase, yeah. Okay. If you have a question for the podcast or thoughts for Pilot Plus, do send them in. The address, once more, is postbag at pilottvpod.com. And now, if you like, we can move on to news. Oh my god, finally. There we go. What a relief. Ridiculous. No, well, I was just saying that Rivals Series 3 has been great and that's exciting news considering we've still got the second tranche coming in November. In a while. That is tough. I thought it was because of the World Cup but it can't be. No, that's what I said.

36:07Why is it? I need it now. Yeah, I just think they're doing it to spread it out over as a wider period as possible. It seems to be. It is frustrating. Okay, I've got a question and bearing in mind how much I love Rivals, I'm worried that it will have lost its momentum by November because it's a long time. Yeah, it's worrying. I think in the end, the fan base will... I think they probably think that the longer something stays on the streaming service like Disney +, the more people are going to watch it. So by the time there'll be a bigger audience, potentially, by the time it rolls around in November.

36:40But it is... I would say they might as well just call it the third season. That could be the third season. What's the difference? They've got six parts... I mean, I would suggest they just want people to keep their subscriptions, don't they? It's a fairly cynical... Because people do migrate from streaming service to streaming service. They do, yeah. And this is an incentive for them to stick around. God, that's annoying. I think he's right. And I think word of mouth as well, because we'll be very positive about it. So we're going to discuss the midway point finale, episode six, which... God, my list today is terrible.

37:11I've just developed a list in recent times. It's really annoying. Apologies to the listeners. apologies to listeners who have to put up with it I wouldn't but it yeah it's I think the word of mouth will be oh there's an amazing ending to the first tranche of episodes if I can use the word tranche and I have and then so word of mouth might build to over the next few months or even longer so James can catch up yeah so people like James can catch up open their minds to the joys of the world that will definitely happen it's got boobs and bums and all that so I don't understand why you're not opening them oh okay I am not such a simple creature that I'm so easily swayed Oh, please.

37:46Pornographic programming. About to burst into song. Oh, okay. Okay, can't you see?

37:55Very good. Okay. Oh, dear. Yeah, so that was my... Anyway, Rivals is back from history. That's the least, by the way, that is the least surprising news, isn't it? I mean, they have to. Yeah, of course. I know, but still, something to be celebrated. Oh, no, no, no. I'm not going to go at you for saying it. Can I ask a question? Yeah, of course not. Can I ask a question? You can ask whatever you want. Thank you. Rivals is an adaptation of one book, right? Big, long book, though. One book. And so what we're saying is, not only did the first season not cover off the book, the second season, both parts, will also not cover off this fucking book.

38:26No, I don't know about that. I think they will have done. I think they will then have moved on to, you know, other... Was there a sequel? It's part of a series. This sort of Rutshire Chronicle. Do the characters persist through the other books? I think so. Okay. So it's not like they're not freestyling, just there are actually... Okay. And anything would have been with Dame Jilly's, you know, permission. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Listen, I'm going to mention my second bit of big news. Okay. Although I'm sure you have chatted about it extensively in the last couple of weeks, or actually last week when the news broke.

38:57Is it something to do with the Great British Sewing Bee? No, it's not. But close, no. It's about the announcement that Edward Blumel will play Hercule. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Now, what did you say about that? You must have been very excited when you heard her. Or maybe you weren't. Maybe this is blasphemy. Right. Okay, so truth be told, I was like, it doesn't need to get remade or, you know, we don't need any more. Hands off Hercule. Yeah, because David Suchet is the absolute best version of Hercule Poirot. But actually, when I saw this announcement, if it has to be made and a younger version of Poirot, Edward is perfect for it.

39:36Edward? Yeah. You're my Edward. Eddie, yeah. Eddie, Ed. Well, his name is Edward. Well, Mr. Blumore. Mr. Blumore. Be formal and respectful. Let's be a bit more Mr. Bloom-all to you. Mr. Bloom-all. Mr. Bloom-all, yeah. Have you met him? Have you done any Q &As with him? No, but I think I'm allowed to use his first name. No, no, no. I just had an interest. No, I'm not. Are we now not allowed to mention his first name? No, no, no, no. How dare you be so untoward and familiar? I am scandalised. No, no, no. That's crazy. I've moved on. I just thought you might have. I think I have, but I can't remember what for.

40:05I think I have. You see? Okay, so he's been in, we might regret this, My Lady Jane. No, I don't think I have. I thought he was in another Agatha Christie one. I did My Lady Jane, but I think I did Rob Ryden for that. Oh, okay. Anyway, but yeah, he's a... He seems a lovely chap. I think I've met him anyway. Young Ecul. You are the one. We need to know your opinion. Yeah, because you are the Poirot obsessive on the panel. Because young, they don't often go that well. There's the young element. And also, remember, you hated, and I think that's not too strong a word. It's not strong enough. You hated Ken.

40:38and she I went we both attended right the world premiere of was it Murder on the On Express or the first one yeah the first one because he was running in it yeah anyway of course yeah at the Royal Albert Hall and great venue great venue and Kay was like my plus one and she hated right from the word go as soon as he arrived on screen with his elaborate twirly moustache oh my god I've sat upright in my chair the hackles have been raised I'm not going to go through it again long time listeners are going to be bored of this right I don't think long time listeners are going to remember the moment when we talked about Ken Rana.

41:09No, because I always bang on about Poirot, like about Kenny B, but like, honestly, anyone who has read the books who loves that character knows that certain things are true of Poirot, which is that he's a dignified man, he walks very slow, in a very particular way, he's very particular about everything, about his appearance, about the way he... Yeah, he's fastidious, right? Right? What he does not have is a gigantic, ridiculous moustache. He doesn't run, particularly on the top of trains. Doesn't run. I love that it's the running. He would never be dishevelled, have his tie or bow tie askew. It was ridiculous.

41:43It was blasphemous. It was awful. I love recounting this. Don't. It's so annoying. And he brings it up. It's hilarious, though. Did you watch any of the subsequent Ken Poirot films? I think I watched one more. And it makes me now too angry. I did watch one more. Okay. Because I try to be open-minded. But I just think, if you love a character... Funny, no. I watched Death on the Nile. Death on the Nile was on regular TV recently. No, no. I love the use of it. Yeah, it's okay. The Ken Branagh, Death on the Nile. And it's got so many inappropriate cancel people in it. Oh, yeah. That's what you forget.

42:12It's a wash with them. Yeah, Russell Brand's in it. Yeah, Army Hammer. Army Hammer's in it. And you're like, oh my God, what were they doing? This casting is extraordinary. Oh, dear. So that was one interesting. It's also kind of quite a terrible film. It's not the best. Is it Haunting in Venice? Yeah, Haunting in Venice is the best one. Yeah, that's really good. I did not watch that. No. Anyway, so you are pro-Blue Mell in this? Just from the announcement and the pitch, I obviously haven't seen any of the... Does his moustache pass muster? I haven't seen him in character. It was just a hedgehog of him.

42:43Okay, fine. But obviously a lot's riding on the voluminosity of the moustache. And what if he breaks into a light jog? Would that be a deal-breaker? Well, actually, I don't know what a young Poirot was like. Do you think he might have been more energetic in his youth? Well, he was an officer, yes. Also possibly even a sprinter. Well, let's not go too far. I'm going to get in touch with the writers of this young Poirot can you just put a bit of running just throw out I'm going to put it past you and you're so well connected it could happen but listen I am excited to see it because also we're going to be exploring the early friendships with Hastings Ted Hastings extraordinary Captain Hastings and with Inspector Jap so yeah I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out and I will obviously give you a opinion So you're in favour of the project as a Poirot purist I wasn't because I wasn't because there's no need for it.

43:32But if it has to be done... There's no need for it. I mean, you know, any reboot or, you know... Even this podcast. Steady? Accurate. Unbelievable. But, no, if it has to be done, then I was nervous about who it'd be. But just looking at the picture of Edward... Like, I can see it. Yeah. Okay. He's got it around the eye area. He's got it around the eyes. He's got it around the eyes. It's a sign-off from me. Okay. Thank God they've got your sign-off. Kay says yes. Yeah. Okay, in fact. Moving on. Other news? Yes. only murders in the building now I know that I would say that interest in this show as it enters its sixth season has waned a little bit both on this podcast and you know and elsewhere you can say generally but actually it's a massive success for Disney Plus this show and I still really enjoy I enjoy you know it may not be the most urgent watch but can I just say so the next season is based in London I'm excited about that But the cast, have you seen the cast they've got lined up for this thing?

44:32Honestly. Wait, is Ariana Grande in it? No, have I made that up? Hold on, I haven't even got to that bit yet. Sorry, carry on. She's in something recently. They announced something. Can't remember. Right, this is who they've announced so far. Martin Freeman, Jerry Halliwell Horner. That's it. Jamie Dimitriou, Derek Jacoby, Jane Horrocks, Jennifer Saunders, Matthew Beard, Sharon Horgan, Divine Joy Randolph, who's obviously always in there and she's back. And then just recently they've added David Tennant, Nicola Coughlin, Jodie Whittaker. What? Jim Broadbent, Richard Ayoade, Catherine Hunter, and more.

45:14It's unbelievable. It's a who's who. I mean, you have to sit back and go, actually. I will be tuning in. Yeah, that is an exciting cast. And they are investigating... A murder? A murder? In the building? Sucky devil. They venture across the pond to continue their investigation to the death of Cinder Canning as seen in the season five finale. So yeah, it's... I like it when an American drama is London based. Do you remember when you came here? Yes. That was a great season of you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. I think it does add to the excitement. Not only the fact that they're filming here and there are lots of...

45:53If you look at their Instagrams of the various people involved, there's some lovely stuff of them hanging out, going to dinner in London and I'm like, which restaurant is there? Martin Short with, you know, other members of the cast and Meryl Streep having dinner somewhere other. It needed an injection of excitement. Yeah, I think it's a good injection. Let's just say it's a good injection. Did you see there is a trailer for the new series of Vigil and it is Vigil in the Arctic. Yes. Cold Vigil. That's another example of a show that needs to kind of reimagine itself. Well, I mean, the big shift obviously was between series one and two, wasn't it?

46:28Because, you know, it's not set on the vigil anymore. So, it needed rethinking. But now, all bets are off. You know, whether it be drones, you know, do it in the Arctic, whatever you like. Do it underwater. It's fine. So, you were a fan? Yes, I like Vigil. Vigil's great. Yeah. Saran Jones and Rose Leslie, people have forgotten. But it's very good. And she's like, she's an investigator, isn't she? Yeah. Which was first season when she was sent on a submarine. And then there was a whole drone false flag attack thing in the second season. And this one takes them to the snow. That first episode of season two was brilliantly done was it with all the drones attacking suddenly turning around and attacking their own people it was like drone on drone attack never good drone on drone no it's always bad yeah but yeah I mentioned before the the ice hockey romantic drama thing the new one yes I can mention the actual details now get ready I'm going to make a note I'm excited Netflix has found its own sex on ice series is how Variety puts it the stream has ordered a serious version of Hannah Grace's novel Icebreaker Icebreaker is the first of three novels that Grace has published in the Maple Hills series set in the fictional University of California, Maple Hills.

47:34Icebreaker spent 70 consecutive weeks on the bestseller list, which is amazing, considering I've never heard of it, but why would I necessarily? Publishing in 2022. The show is described as, she's the transfer gunning for Olympic gold, he's the campus star chasing the NHL, National Hockey League, but when an accident forces their teams to share one rink, Anastasia Allen and Nate Hawkins collide. Anastasia Allen and Nate Hawkins good names extraordinary names yeah sporty names I thought you said Campist but you said Campus right Campus maybe Campist as well I don't know yeah so but bearing in mind he should rivalry series 2 will arrive I cannot wait next year and that it's hockey mad off campus is coming back as well I'm sure yeah exciting it's a good time to be on the ice a holiday on ice if you will very good anyway any other news No, I've mentioned my most important news.

48:28Okay, and obviously we've already talked about Boydie's book. Was there any other news? No, I think so. There hasn't been loads, to be fair. And that's because the World Cup, Boydie, is a devouring football-playing dragon that has consumed all media, TV, and entertainment in its path. I mean... Listen, a lot of people are watching it, okay? You just have to deal with it. Yeah, that hasn't stopped him before. Hasn't stopped him before. In fact, a lot of people are watching something. No, that's true. By the way, I forgot to ask you, because you didn't cover this in the What You've Been Watching section, how many episodes of House of the Dragon have you watched four the four that we were given yes they've not given me the rest but I've watched the first four right you sounded like you were about to accuse me no I was intrigued because I was wondering whether they'd sent you more or whether no but you know we discussed that because obviously I'd said that I watched them all last week so I did not watch them this week so that would have been that would have been that would have been a lie boy it would have been disingenuous never lie never lie always be truthful okay alright fine well if that's the end of news we shall move on to this week's reviews all two of them And first up this week, we have season two of The Agency, and this is the espionage saga from the Butterworths.

49:30And this is itself an adaptation of the critically adored French political thriller Le Bureau des Légendes, created by Éric Rochon. I apologise on behalf of... And this stars Michael Vassbender as Martian, and he's a CIA asset who has been recalled to a desk, a desk, I tell you, in London after last season's events. Boydie, remind me how we got on with season one of this show. For the life of me, I can't remember what we said about it. If I recall, people were quite mixed on it initially. And I seem to recall it's because there was kind of, it's like it's very serious. And he's, I think he comes across as quite neurodivergent, which I think wasn't necessarily clear from the first episode, but became apparent as you went on, as I recall.

50:16And I also think it was quite talky. It is very talky, yes. There's a lot of talk. There's a lot of chatter in the CIA London office about who the mole is, who the person is. There are a lot of code names in this. A lot of code names. A lot of jargon. So it's quite... But my feeling is you just let all that wash over you. Yeah. And you just kind of enjoy the vibe. I really like... Actually, my favourite thing about the whole show, to go straight in, is old guys sitting around talking about all of this stuff. because especially when those old girls are played by Geoffrey Wright, Michael Fassbender obviously the lead, Catherine Waterston Richard Gere Richard bloody Gere, I was leaving that to last for dramatic effect thanks for winning it and Richard Gere I mean, so and I absolutely do love Richard Gere he's in a lot of my favourite films I'm sure he is so I love that, that's my favourite thing about it is that there's just these long meetings meetings they have where they kind of people shout at each other and accuse each other of being of not working hard enough to find the undercover person in their midst or even inventing the fact there's another undercover person in the midst and then him going to Michael Fassbender going to secret meetings with other MI5 people and having even more long discussions with Hugh Bonneville about what the hell's going on and it's I love all that so it's actually the the whole milieu of it that I think works really well.

51:42And I believe, I remember, a friend of mine told me about Le Bureau, the original French verses, and the thing that he loved about that show was the authenticity of this is what it is actually like. It's people sitting at desks, looking at their computers and trying to work out what's going on in a blurry photo, which you get a lot of. Wait, does your friend work in Le Bureau? Oh, no, no, no, but it feels. It's more the feel of it. There's more Excel in this than in, for example, Spooks. There are spreadsheets in Galore, exactly. And you get to see all the different levels as well of the operatives.

52:16To the people who are just like nerdy guys. Fixing the photocopy. Fixing the photocopy, etc. Who then suddenly have to present to the bigwigs what they've learned. And all of that, I love all of that. So I really like this show. And I think I'm pretty sure I got to the end of season one because I didn't need to remind him what happened at the end. So he was obsessed with this woman played by Jodie Turner-Smith, who you see right at the beginning of this. The first scene in this is an action thriller sequence where she's in the boot of a car and she's been kidnapped because she's been regarded as a traitor, even though she's just a sensible university professor.

52:50So the constant thing driving him is to get her back and to rescue her from her captives. But at the same time, he's given various tasks to allow him to help make that happen. I'm trying not to spoil the detail of it. But every element of it seems to be really, really authentic. and I've no idea if it is it's just it feels that way whether it's that scene in the opening where they're transporting her around and they're you know she's going through this terrible experience or whether it's Michael Fassbender his meticulousness in his home as you say like he feels that he's on the spectrum somehow I really I really love it I think it's a great show and it was one of those shows that you kind of almost forget I know when you were saying what did we think two years ago I think since when we reviewed it and you can't forget how good a show this is like this cast this talent of writing and directing it's just incredible this is not even considered like a major you know show in a way it's like almost slightly flown by the wayside it's a top quality drama absolutely yeah do you agree?

53:51yeah I do I recall us reviewing it originally but do you recall what we thought? I thought we all enjoyed it but I didn't continue that's the difference so I had to do a bit of research and I would say anyone who hasn't watched the first series I mean obviously go back and watch it but if you don't have time just do a quick Google search and then jump straight in, because it is possible, that's the thing. Things, I mean, I would say there's some catching up. Specifically, the code names are quite bamboozling, if you don't know who anyone is. We need code names, by the way. We definitely need code names.

54:22We'll have to think of that for us. You are, of course, Ferret. Well, you two have been reverse Ferret, so actually, I don't know, maybe you've stolen my crown there. That's true. We've reverse Ferreted. The angry Ferret has ceded the crown. Yeah, exactly. But I thought it was great, this first episode, and I didn't find it too discombobulating figuring out all the code names and the background but I had googled and I just thought it was super tense and taught and obviously you've got all the stuff with Sammy the Jodie Turner-Smith character but also the character of Danny who's I think in Iran and the stuff that happens with her and she's put in a very difficult situation I forgot the whole Iranian stuff feels like also torn from the headlines horrific yeah it does doesn't it very you know she's put in it's very hairy over there she's put in a very difficult situation and as you say the Richard Gere and Geoffrey Wright they're cockahoo because they think they've succeeded in getting an asset into Valhalla which you know let's just say it's complicated so yeah the double crossing the treachery I thought was very exciting to watch there's a scene in this where Fassbender is reacting badly to the fact that Sammy something bad might have happened to Sammy right and he's driving at speed all I would say to you is it's so palpitation inducing and also to me had a reminder that that once i mean not to the same level i once had an incident in a in a spiral car park not to the same extent was this quite triggering for you yeah well no it just reminded me that i was very nervous about going up this spiral uh car park um because of hill starts and i was with a friend and what she she like at the time said to me oh my god what's happening because basically when i where i got nervous i just ended up going fast and she was like slow down what's happening you should never be allowed in a car I was like why are you going faster I said oh god I don't know I just might so you were speeding up the spiral concrete because I did not want to go slow and you know I had to stop for any reason so I just my speed was creeping up let's just say he takes it to the end I was going to say now we should say Michael Fassbender here his character has been trained by MI6 and therefore is reasonably confident with his hill starts yes me on the other hand not so much but anyway bottom line is I really enjoyed this and I recommend and everyone watches it.

56:31Do you know what? It's really compelling to the point I'd almost forgotten quite how compelling it is because it does take itself incredibly seriously, but I rather, as you know, enjoy that. Yeah, it has to. But it's like the anti-Mission Impossible in a way, isn't it? Because it's not about spectacle. I mean, in this case, he's literally at a desk. Well, we just mentioned the car park. I mean, it's true. There was a high-octane action sequence where he drove at an unsafe speed in a public car park. No hill starts required. but it's you know I think the writing's really good I think the plotting is quite dense and convoluted and I suppose what it looks at more than anything else is kind of like the cost of espionage work like what it costs them to do this job the human cost yes and that I think is a really interesting spoiler it's high it is high yeah and what they give up to do this job and the reasons that they do it but I mean you love a spy thriller don't you boy like a naughty espionage thriller and this it has lots of twists and turns not just in the car park and yeah it's great do you think you could be a spy?

57:33no I agree I'd be terrible at it you would absolutely terrible at it I would as well I can't lie it requires a level of dissembling that I'm just not capable of do you know on the other hand who I think would be spectacular is it? Boyd yeah they'd be like so Agent Hilton have you or anyone you know written a book in concert with Russell T. Davis no no don't know what you're talking about absolutely and if I did I wouldn't tell you which is how he has been for the last however many months. Oh, yeah. Interesting to point out, by the way, that there are 10 episodes, there's a lot of episodes, and they all seem to be written by the Butterworth.

58:07Really? John Henry, yeah, every single one of them. Do you know what? I'm kind of obsessed at the moment with siblings writing together and how that works. Because you've got Harry and Jack Williams who do Assassin as well. And obviously it's probably no different to any other writing partnership, but, you know, siblings. Oh, I think it is interesting. No, I think it's really, yeah. Harry and Jack, if you talk to them, as I think we both hosted Q &As with them, they're really funny about it, like how different they are as people and how it's an interesting way of working. Butterworths, get in touch, let us know.

58:40Well, I'm sure we can get them on, but it's excellent. The agency which has begun airing now on Paramount +, has it not, Boydie? Yes, I think all episodes are available now, which is, that is a good binge. That is a good binge. That's what I'm saying. A spy binge. They landed on Sunday yesterday, sorry. Next up we have Sugar, and this is the second series of Apple's hard-boiled detective drama. Now, oh God, a word of warning. So season one of this show contains one of the most gonzo twists in the history of television, which drops about, what, halfway through the series, something like that. If you do not know this twist, and you want to watch Sugar, and you've somehow missed hearing it on social media, you may want to skip this review entirely.

59:24Entirely. Still with us? Ready? Okay, so, this is a sci-fi cry show, in fact, in which, thank you, this is a Steph Sealand subcategory, in which Colin Farrell plays a private detective who specialises in missing persons, except, wait for it, he's an alien. Mm-hmm. Banana crackers. Because of course he is. Oh, banana crackers. Which is not something you find out until halfway through the series, and there's nothing that anyone really saw coming. the second season sees an entirely new missing persons case and so you know who could we turn to but our own very own sci-fi cry expert Steph Sealand who has parachuted in to this podcast even though she had the day off to tell us that's professionalism right there that's right would you give Sugar season 2 one lump or two oh that was nice okay firstly I didn't have the day off I just had the day well I had the day off this the day off of us but I'm so excited to see my beloved Gabby right now okay yeah if you didn't i think we were talking about it on plus that there are some you know when you have like a catch-up of a show and like this is what this is what this show is all about that's the word recap well done well done you um this if you haven't watched season one if you haven't watched season one and if you or if you have like me devoured season one you still need a recap because you are going to forget so when we left john sugar okay he has revealed midway through season one, an alien private investigator in this genre-bending series.

1:00:56Okay. Okay. I don't even need to know what I can tell. Kay's vibes. It shows like this. Define banana crackers. Carry on. Okay. So when we left John Sugar, okay, the aliens that were studying the humans on Earth in an under... Yeah, you're right. Okay. But I'm going to try and get through this. Had decided to go back to their planet, okay? he had discovered that some of the aliens were complicit in some bad shit that was going on which again I don't want to spoil for people and he he was like I we need to get to the bottom of who the bad aliens on earth are okay so from his tribe who are the bad aliens his overriding quest is to find his sister Jen right that's the thing he really wants to do he needs to find Jen that's the thing that kind of the heartbeat of the show he really wants to find out what happened to her and the only person that he believed knows what's happened to Jen was Henry who was his alien handler on earth who is now dead right okay all right Henry this this is not a spoiler because it happens within the first five minutes Henry's dead and then you're a bit under under a bit of cloth, Henry's blue alien he returns, I know.

1:02:13Why are they always blue by the way? Do you think it's weird? Like Avatar, they're blue. Oh here we go, Boyd's Avatar bashing back again. Anyway, carry on sorry. I don't know, that is a good point. There's a lot of blue aliens out there. But this is the piercing blue eyes, so when in season one when it's revealed that he's an alien and he looks in the mirror and he gets his, you know, the piercing blue eyes, which is an amazing scene. Like James? Yes, much like me, yes. Wow, it's starting to all fucking make sense now, okay. So yeah, so now he's taken on this news so the first one as you said was a mystery he's a PI and the second one is another mystery there's a boxer whose brother's gone a bit wayward and he needs to find out what this boxer's up to and what he's doing now if you do not do a recap and you decide to start for some unknown reason in season 2 you will be saying this show is fucking nuts I don't know what is happening and the only thing we probably will all agree on is that Colin Farrell is absolutely delicious and he's even more delicious in a suit.

1:03:13Wow, objectifying much? Just saying. Kay, am I wrong? Look, he wears a suit nicely, I'd say that. That's damning with faint praise, I'm saying. Yeah, I don't think, yeah. You're not feeling the Farrell, figuratively. Yeah, don't get any lawsuits. No, he looks good in a suit. I think this is, right, for me, and I've already set up my stool that I love this show, it's classy it's original I love the way he intermixed his like the Bogot references and all those scenes he's a cinephile yeah he's a cinephile and there's a little bit of humour there's a great kind of scene in the first again five minutes which adds the humour where he's with a pack of dogs which obviously is going to appeal to me and he's getting a ball it's a clever scene and if you don't know he's an alien which I don't know how you could have bypassed the fact that he's an alien anyway Unraveling Mystery that's a yes for me I love the music the way it's filmed is just it's sensational to watch I think I also really love I'm not generally a fan of narration but I'll take Colin Farrell narrating anything his narration's really good you need if you're going to do a hard-boiled detective show you need a narrator yeah so yeah I mean this series is about he's all alone he's gone back to California he's all alone and this is about how he's going to navigate Earth without any alien allies.

1:04:38Because it's kind of a reboot, sort of a soft reboot, because essentially the cast has entirely changed except for him. Yeah, and he fell in love at the end. He decided to stay, and it opens with, I've decided to stay. He fell in love with Earth, and you are seeing Earth. This is a journey through John Sugar, the alien PI's eyes. And I know that sounds batshit, but I love it. What's interesting to me about it is that, and I think we reviewed this without knowing the twist. We did. Yeah, we thought it was a fairly standard. No, but I really liked it. I remember I really liked it. It's enough. This series could be absolutely enough.

1:05:14Colin Farrell, as an L.A. detective, who's obsessed with film noir, like, you know, the Bogart films, as you say, and there's Paul Newman's in this one, in The Hustler. There's clips of The Hustler, when he goes to play Paul. That is enough. That's enough of a concept to sustain a really good show, especially one that, as you say, is as well shot and well written and acted as this. The whole alien element of it does not need to be there at all. Now, I'm not criticizing the alien element, but just imagine, this show would work perfectly well as him, as a private detective, investigating crimes in LA in an incredibly stylish way with the additional wryly funny fact that he's obsessed with old crime movies.

1:05:59And he's a subscriber to American Cinematographer. And he's a filmmaker. And Cahiers du Cinema, but not, crucially, Empire Magazine. Well, I'm sure it's only a matter of time. Twat. Only a matter of time. But do you know what I mean? It doesn't need... But, and yet, the alien element of it adds a whole new level of stuff that makes it even more interesting and compelling. But it's such a difficult show to talk about. You cannot talk about it without talking about the twist. and at the same time we were talking about how there's I bet when this goes out on Apple when it arrives there will be a recap at the beginning I guarantee you but the way we never get to see those recaps on the preview websites that we review this stuff it's the same with a lot of Netflix stuff they put recaps at the beginning for their ongoing shows without us seeing them there was a recap at the beginning of the agency oh yeah you're right there was yes that's true but often times they won't we won't see it but they will put one Now, to me, I'm fascinated to know how they negotiate.

1:06:58All the press releases and stuff kind of acknowledge the twist for season two. We've had to warn people about it as well, of course. But there is no official, formal recap that we saw. And yet, it still works. I cannot say often enough, you don't need it. But the fact that it's there does add the other layer and makes it even more satisfying and interesting. Question. if it didn't have the alien element would we all be saying this is great this is just another no no my point being would we be saying this is great but it's just another fantastic crime show it's just another fantastic cop cop centred show would we be saying that I suppose so instead of us saying oh it's and I agree with you I don't think it needs it but it does to use your favourite word elevate it I think I think we would be saying that but we'd be saying what makes it special is this really interesting film obsession he has that's enough but you're right because this has two hooks it has its hook that's on the face of it and then they completely upturn you half of the students and give you another hook a bigger hook where you're just like and this is a proper moment where you're just like what the fuck have I just seen guys I'm going to run against the triangle right okay I'm ready for this can I just say I love you thanks very much love that I knew she didn't Colin Fowler all she would say was no I really loved Colin how Colin Harrell Farrell hater no love Farrell as an actor I think he's great I don't think he's great in this as in I think he's like I think he's going through the motion because he's having to there's too much going on here right they're trying to do too much okay so you've got the I mean the alien twist which is like cuckoo bong then you've got the black and white you know the film inserts it's just too much and the narration it's just too much is it script a bit overload for you a bit no I can handle it it's just like it's just trying to do too many things and not doing them well like I'd say strip back either one of them like get rid of the narration or get rid of the alien twist and just like because I would I would enjoy it as you describe you know when you're like what would you think if it was just like the you know movie loving PI yeah I'd really enjoy it I think yeah I can totally see you enjoying this as a classic a classic cop show do you know what I'm a runner she's not enjoying it No, if it didn't have the alien element, and it stripped out the...

1:09:23Even the narration I find a bit irritating. The narration is very much of that era of Bogart-esque detective films. Films, obviously, not a thing. There is more of it than that, though. That's the interesting thing. Of course, it has got that noir-style narration, but it's almost his entire internal monologue. It's almost Dexter-esque in volume. Bogie doesn't narrate this much. of his stuff you know this is a so I know what you mean I happen to I think his internal monologue is so kind of funny and endearing and interesting that it's fine by me but there is a lot of it I mean it has to be certain so anyway all I'll say is it didn't hit the sweet spot for me oh nice nice appreciate it yeah but you guys loved it did you I absolutely love it and it reminded I forgot what what I loved about it the first time my voice I forgot what I was doing.

1:10:18Maybe I'm an alien. Maybe you're an alien. I'm grounding to a horse. It's your piercing blue eyes, Boylee. That's what gave it away. One of the things I love about it is its use of LA locations is extraordinary. And ones you don't often see normally. So there's like downtown ones. You know, he goes to Koreatown. That scene was really funny when the woman takes his car and everything. And then he's got this fantastic new house in the Hollywood Hills. Boyd, when that scene came on, that property porn scene, I was like, Boyd Boyd and I are going to both love this film it's not Bosch's house it's not Bosch's house Bosch has got a great house listen it's still lush and lavish I love Bosch but you cannot bring Bosch into absolutely everything okay you really don't know me as well as you think but the LA vista is oh yeah the thing that really influences I think the film that this is most heavily influenced by is one of my favourites of all time which is The Longer Byer of course it is it's your favourite film the Robert Walker film The Longer Byer that is massive influence on this in every single way in a good way wow yeah did you like it sorry yeah it's great I mean but obviously you had me at alien detective but but yeah I like I love all the noir tropes I think he's a great character I really enjoy the monologue but I like the sense of humour to it as well which is quite subtle and understated which is how I like my humour yeah I think it's great I think it's fun I think when we first reviewed it I was initially like yeah I quite like the detective stuff but for me the alien thing is obviously it's the opposite of Kate the alien thing has made me ten times more interested than I would be without it.

1:11:48The alien thing is 100 % going to turn loads of people off, I think. But other people on. I think the pilot listeners are going to love it. Do you think so? Yes. I think if you've watched it naturally play out, do you know what I mean? If you watch this week by week in the first season and then you got to the end, I think it was episode six that actually was the big reveal. I think that's not going to put you off at all. I think that must be a fabulous experience to genuinely get a twist. Yeah, because it's not instant alien, isn't it? No, it's not. But also, do you know what, weirdly, actually, if it was just the alien thing and not the other things, I could deal with that.

1:12:23It's just the fact that it's the time to do all of it. I think it's all things I like. So it's aliens, it's film clips, it's a voiceover. I love this shit. It's made for you. It's absolutely made for you. It looks incredible, by the way. It won the Primetime Emmy for Outstanding Cinematography, quite rightly. It looks incredible. Apple, by the way, in terms of just the visuals of Apple shows, Cape Fear, I was banging on about that, how it was most beautiful. this is all equally stunningly well shot. It's amazing. The Apple Sheen. And Sam Catlin has taken over as showrunner who was on Breaking Bad and Preacher.

1:12:51And I think, even from the first episode, you can notice that. So, yeah. Give us some sugar, baby. And it's on Apple TV. At the moment, it started, hasn't it, buddy? It started on the 19th of June, which has already gone pie. What else is out this week? Well, The Bear is back on Friday. The Bear, The Bear, all covered in here, Yeah, but not covered by us because it's embargoed. No, heavily embargoed. We're going to do that on Pilot Plus. I've already started watching it. Have you indeed? Yes. You've got access. I have. Yeah, I haven't started watching it yet. All episodes arrive on Disney Plus on Friday, which is very exciting.

1:13:26Yeah, the final season, of course. We'll see how the finale goes. House of the Dragon is on source today. We reviewed it last week. We reviewed it last week, but yes, that begins today. Slightly cheekily, but we were allowed to because of the nicer... See, can I just say, shout out to HBO Max for allowing us to watch a show in good time and not have an annoying embargo. There was an embargo, but it was one that we perfectly happy dealt with. Yeah, we were able to do it a week early. Yeah, it was fabulous. Now the MVPs of screener. Screener people. Yes, they're our favourites. Yeah. Yes. Then we've got Avatar The Last Airbender.

1:13:57Yeah. Yeah. That's back on Thursday. I mean, I thought you liked it. No, that's on the Netflix. Oh, fine. That's on the Netflix on Thursday the 25th. There's a Rick Mayer documentary on Sky, which I will definitely be watching. McMahon Magnificent Bastard on Sky Documentaries Thursday the 25th at 9 o 'clock there's a Prime Video South Korean rom-com called See You at Work James on Monday out today on Prime Video Sounds like a threat when you say it It does it does sound like a threat Fair enough and that's about it there you go Okay Oh no wait a minute I was about to say you missed out the Larry David one Talk about talk about missing out the main thing Jesus Christ Larry David's new show but the reason I missed it out is because it arrives on Saturday, which is just weird.

1:14:42What? Exactly. What channel? Netflix? HBO Max. Life, Larry, and the Pursuit of Unhappiness is a seven-part sketch show about the history of America on the 250th anniversary of its independence produced by Barack and Michelle Obama. I mean, the front door. It's the dream. That's got something we all like, apart from James. I have inquired as to whether we'll get screenings for this, and hopefully we were at some point, we just haven't got them yet. Boyd takes back his praise of HBO immediately. It's a rollercoaster. This is going to be the test. This is the test, but we're hoping, hopefully we'll get it.

1:15:16But yeah, Life Laring in the Future of Hanab starts on Saturday, this coming Saturday on HBO Max. And it's produced by Barack Obama. The Obamas. The Obamas. Do you remember, Kay, when you were asked consistently to get an interview with Michelle Obama? Oh yeah. This might have actually happened. And was actually said to me seriously. I have hasten to add. Put in a formal request. Yep, yep, yep. I love being a features editor. I tried to get an interview with Bill Clinton once. and I tried to get Al Gore and I got Al Gore but I didn't get Bill Gould. The full year West Wing epic Oh God, we know about this.

1:15:4450 million words thing, yes. We know. But that is a good get. Thank you. Anyway, what was our pick of the week? The Agency. Yeah, actually I like both of them. Really? Interesting. Steph, I'm going to say Sugar. You're in the Sugar Cup. I haven't seen The Agency. So Sugar it is then. Okay. I'm going to go with Steph. Sugar is my pick as well. The Sugar Agency. The Sugar Agency, yes. Yes, we're recommending them both. Okay, we've had a very full house this week, haven't we? This is weird, having us all in one place. I'm not sure I like it. Maybe I love it. I don't know, I can't tell. How rude! You two are off the leash.

1:16:21You're unchained when you're together. It's dangerous. Look, he's able to tell us apart, which is good. Usually he calls me Steph when you're not poor. Hang on, you did that to us! Yes, you called him boy. So don't go... I'm just... Back off, okay? Leave her back the fuck off. my friend alright can I just say it's easier to understand confusing us two since we are both middle aged white bald men listen you said it not us although I'm more middle aged than he is sitting next to you makes me so happy Kay being in your orbit makes me like it fills my cup being in your orbit it does it fills my cup listen to what she's done maybe try and emulate that alright let's keep the sex talk to offer shall we everything comes back to off campus with him it does it really does anyway that was it for this week's show please leave us a five-star rating on whatever platform you should so choose.

1:17:10We'll be back next week with Chex Notes. God, it could be anything. We've got Elle, which is the Legally Blonde prequel series. That's on Prime. Seen it. X-Men 97. We're all very excited about that, obviously. No, no, no. Season two of that. Silo season three, which I may or may not have watched the entirety of. Of course you have. We'll find out that. Very exciting stuff. And please do follow us on whatever social media channels you so choose. Excellent. it's goodbye from I guess everyone Kate bye bye Steph bye this is a new element boys this is a new we've never had this before this is like some naff game show what's going on and it's goodbye from me you're Ronnie Corbett suddenly very much so oh pilot out