The Bear, Silo, and Elle

26:46Oh yeah, he's obsessed with it. He's given it five stars. He has given it a full five stars. He's gone full on. I'm not there yet, but I haven't got to Nightmare on a Gurney yet. So, you know, maybe that'll tell you around. Has Empire reviewed Off Campus yet? I don't think we did a review of Off Campus, no. Maybe it's time to... Rock up a five-star review of Off Campus. Off Campus is a Bunnellian, psychologically, biologically deep show that forefronts the female gaze. It is total joy. That's what I'm going to write. Yeah? Do it. Do it. Go through it. I'll do it. All right, fine. That is what we've been watching this week.

27:20Shall we move on to a listener question? Please, God. Let's do it. Okay. We have a question here from Carmen, and Carmen says, Hi, Podteam. Sorry in advance for the slightly long rambling email. Don't worry. Our whole podcast is slightly long and rambling. Having gotten to the end of a crappy day of surgery and hospitals, I camped out in bed and turned on my go-to, most comforting episode of TV, which is Season 4, Episode 1 of Buffy, The Freshman, now famed as the one with Pedro Pascal true story I won't ask about comfort watches I think we all pretty much know where you three would land so instead I wanted to ask about small characters that you wish had gotten more time for me the character of Summer who appears in The Freshman is such a great foil for Buffy and so much fun to spend time with I feel that she could have made a great big bad and way better than the charisma hole that was Adam so true I also feel like the Supremes from the West Wing almost write their own spin-off show hard agree anyone else you would put forward also just wanted to say a massive thank you I saved up a few episodes to keep me company and distracted through this singularly unfun day and can honestly say that your familiar friendly and funny banter really did help me get through it what's the lady's name this is Carmen oh Carmen I hope you're alright oh poor Carmen I agree very much with both of those because the freshman was the one where Buffy goes to university and the whole point of that first episode is like a metaphor for leaving school and going to college where she feels out of her depth and somehow the vampires are kicking her arse and it's a whole thing and Summer's the vampire who ultimately kicks her arse.

28:53And that is a good character. And the Supremes, that West Wing episode of the Supremes with the mighty Glenn close, Steph, that 100 % feels like it could have been a Supreme Court. I love the way you still talked about West Wing. I did not bring it up. She opened the door, I simply walked through it. To be fair, Carmen did open that door. He's picked the question isn't he? That's true. Fair enough for Carmen to get But I think those are great choices. I've done a K and I've only picked one choice. Lazy. Go on. My head's in a spin because of the football. Heat. And the heat. Oh, football. And yeah, everything.

29:26And Steph's in a spin because of the abs. Exactly, for the abs. We're all in a spin because of off-campus. Not just the abs, guys. Not just the abs. Not just the abs. We're all in an off-campus spin. I'm going to go for Doctor Who the episode Blink which is for many people, the best episode of all time. There's something up there. Great episode. Great episode. And that, not only did the Doctor and Freeman Agamemnon's character, the then companion, not appear at all, hardly except on the video, on the TV screen. But the whole episode is about the character Sally Sparrow played by Carey Mulligan, brilliantly.

30:00This is Carey Mulligan pre-Hollywood fame. Before she was Carey Mulligan. Before she was Carey Mulligan. And she's obviously brilliant and brilliantly cast. And I think, I wasn't alone, I remember when I went out, I was thinking, oh, they've introduced a whole new character, built this entire episode around her, where she's bound to become a new companion. And she just didn't. Never seen her again. Never seen her again. So it's Sally Sparrow for me, because she's absolutely brilliant in an absolutely phenomenal episode. And the character's intriguing. And yet, it's just a one and done. It's absolutely...

30:29And I think Stephen Moffat, I'm pretty sure I remembered him saying that he intended to go back to the character, but she became too famous too quickly. and literally I think within six months of this episode going out was that the same year that An Education came out yes exactly and then she was boom then she was massive yeah because she was so brilliant in it so yeah it's all about Sally Sparrow for me oh is it I think I've got this question wrong because is it about individual episodes because I've just no no just characters characters who we feel should have had more screen time yeah okay well I'm going to say and Boyd you might say oh no I think he was used just the right amount I'm going to say when Jerry Stiller as Frank Costanza in Seinfeld because I love Jerry Stiller.

31:10And I know I say it a lot. King of Queens is one of my favorite sitcoms. And obviously he plays the dad. He plays the dad in King of Queens. But I love him as Frank Costanza in Seinfeld. Oh, yeah. No, I'm banned from talking about Seinfeld. So I couldn't use that example. But you aren't banned and you're right, of course. He's amazing. He's absolutely amazing. He's a comedy genius, is Jerry Stiller. And the other people that I think were really good, I love the character of Laura Montez in Veep. Do you remember? She was like a kind of, she was sort of a bit of an arch nemesis. You don't even remember her, but she's a great character.

31:46Laura Montez. Is that the name of the character or the actor? Yes. Who played her? Do you know the character? Do you know who played her? Sorry. You're asking me a question. I'll find out. I don't remember that character. Anyway, she's a great character, underused. I think that could have been fleshed out a bit more. And then one for you, James. And now this is, yeah, I know. I wonder if you're going to agree with me about this. I think people either think he was used exactly the right amount or they think oh no he should have had more airtime Gunther in Friends I think he was used exactly the right amount I agree with that I love that he got that role simply because he knew how to work a coffee machine he was an extra, he was just in for the day and they just said does anyone know how to work the coffee machine and he was like oh I've got Brewster experience I could do it so he put him behind the counter and then he got a line and then he became a recurring character and then he earned enough money from that.

32:36I think like, he basically made an acting career out of just being able to work a coffee machine. His one regret, he said, was that when he did that extras gig, he had peroxide bleached his hair, which is not naturally that colour. But he then had to keep his hair like that. Oh, God. Because he had then a recurring bit where he appeared on Friends. That's what made Charlie so memorable. Right, yes. But tragically, he did actually die. Not long after the Friends reunion, because he appeared briefly on that. I think he was ill at the time. He appeared on a video screen, like he dialed in and spoke to them at the reunion.

33:06But yeah, unfortunately he died. Oh, that's so sad. His name was James Michael Taylor, was the address now. Obviously, as is my want, I have at least 20 possible options for this. So let's get into them. Okay, on my list I have got... Oh God. Carmen brought up Pedro Pascal, who of course appears in The Freshman in Buffy. But also, I would say his character, Oberyn Martell, the Red Viper of Dawn from Game of Thrones, was a great character has that amazing episode the mountain and the viper but gets spoiler murderized by the mountain necessary to the plot that he dies but there's a part of me that would love to have seen more of him because when he and Indira Varma kind of first turn up they are fantastic in that so I really really like that character he literally like spoiler but like when he literally grapefruits his head yes oh my god it's pretty great it's one of the best it's one of the best episodes of Game of Thrones well because you think he's won as well he's spinning around and you think the little skippy guy's winning, it's going to be amazing.

34:03And then at the last minute, he makes that fatal mistake. It's true. It's true. It's so good, that is. Alfie Solomons from Peaky Blinders is one of the best characters. Tom Hardy's character in Peaky Blinders, who I think is magnificent. You know, Stephen Knight might disagree. I imagine he is not the most easy person to work with. However, he is a delight when he is on screen. So I would love to have seen more from that character. Here's one for the Star Trek fans out there. Garak from Deep Space Nine, I'm the Cardassian tailor and former member of the Obsidian Order, so a spy, literally, I don't know if he's a tinker or a soldier, but he's definitely a tailor and a spy.

34:38And I think he's really, really good. And again, I don't think he got, I mean, he got a few episodes to himself, but I don't think he got anywhere near the screen time that he deserved. So Garrick is up there for me. If I were to pick a West Wing person, it would be Ainsley Hayes, Emily Proctor's character as the Republican legal counsel, who was fantabulous. and ultimately, the West Wing lost her to CSI Miami because Aaron Sorkin never made her a series regular. She was always a guest star and obviously she needed money to live and work. So when she was offered a steady gig on CSI Miami, she took that and it was a real shame.

35:11And when I interviewed Aaron Sorkin for my moosive West Wing piece, he said his biggest regret was not making her a series regular and actually locking her down because he would love to have kept her in the show, but he didn't. So that was on him. Who else have I got in here? I would say, oh, Walton Goggins in Sons of Anarchy. Walton Goggins plays a trans sex worker called Venus Van Damme, which is actually a riff on Cletus Van Damme, which was one of his character in The Shield's aliases. And this came out of a thing where Kurt Sutter, who was the showrunner on Sons of Anarchy, was one of the main writers on The Shield.

35:42And he basically said, because loads of people from The Shield turn up in Sons of Anarchy. And his whole thing was, well, I can have loads of people from The Shield, but I can never have Walton Goggins and I can never have Michael Chiklis because they are so synonymous with their characters, no one would believe them as new people. and so Walton Goggins suggested kind of in jest what if I played a trans character and then a while down the line Kurt Sutton was like were you serious because I've written you this part and he read it and he was like this is amazing like absolutely so he plays this phenomenal character Venus Van Damme is in it for quite a few episodes in fact I spoke to him on set of Sons of Anarchy when he was playing that character as well which is great and Michael Chiklis to be fair does finally appear in the very last episode do you remember this Dev of Sons of Anarchy as the truck driver a very pivotal truck driver but that's Michael Chiklis.

36:25But that's a good character. I would have liked to see more. Michael K. Williams' character, Omar Little in The Wire. Obviously, Michael K. Williams is no longer with us, but that character was one of the best characters in The Wire and had a very small role. So I would have liked to have seen more of that. I had a bunch of other ones, like Saffron from Firefly, which was Christina Hendricks. She's in the Our Mrs. Reynolds episode. She's really, really good in that. She could have had a spin-off. The character of Faith in Buffy, fabulous character. Doesn't get enough screen time. Badger and Skinny Pete from Breaking Bad.

36:54Great characters who we don't see nearly enough of. And so it goes on. But I will stop there because I can feel, even though she's not here, I can feel Kay's eyes boring into my skull as I'm boring everyone else. No, I'm giving you an absolute A star for that homework assignment because that was extensive. That was like James Wikipedia. Thank you. That was incredible. Well done. I try to bring value where I can. Yes, and you have. Well, Carmen, I hope that has answered your question. And in response to your PS, which was a follow-up to my 50... Remember when you did the 50 questions on... Yes.

37:27Oh, yeah, yeah. And you asked me to pick a song and I picked Black by Pearl Jam. And she's asked, would I choose the album version of Black or the MTV Live version, which is the unplugged version? And that's a really good question because they have very different energies, so I would pick both. That's not an answer. You can't... No, pick one. Oh, no, I can't. I can't possibly pick one. I can't possibly pick one. You would have the question. Okay, fine. Well, it would have to be the album one because that's the one that I've listened to the most. But the MTV Unplugged one is singular as well. I pushed him for you, Carmen, there.

37:57I pushed him for you because it was outrageous. He wasn't going to answer. I also really like some of the live stadium versions they've done of that particular song. But anyway, anyway, anyway, that is the song that absolutely destroys you. That's a lay flat on the ground and die song. But anyway. If you would like your question eviscerated such as that on this particular podcast, or you wish to submit your thoughts, fears, and dreams to Pilot Plus, please submit them to us at postbag at pilottvpod.com. And while I have you here, and I mentioned this on Pilot Plus on Thursday, so I'm going to do it in brief here, Empire Spoiler Specials are becoming Empire Plus, which gives you things other than spoilers, new things, but it also is going to give you an ad-free access to the regular podcast, which I know people have been asking for.

38:39There'll be longer cuts of the podcast, so it's a more interesting and varied proposition for spoiler specials as Empire Plus. In addition to that, there will also be, unfortunately, a price rise for Pilot Plus. Pilot Plus listeners already know this, but if you are thinking of signing up to Pilot Plus, and if you're not, then why haven't you? Now is the time to do it, because the prices are going to go up on the 27th of July. So you have until then to lock in a year of Pilot Plus at the lower price, which you can do now. And if you're a Spoiler Specials subscriber, you can lock in a year on Spoiler Specials, or rather Empire Plus as it is now.

39:14You can lock that in now for 12 months as well. When the prices do go up on the 27th, the monthly price goes up, I think, by a pound a month. The annual one only goes up by a small amount, so actually that becomes better value. And there's also going to be a bundle offer, so you can get Pilot Plus and Empire Plus for one single fee as well. Obviously, it's not fun. We don't like to increase prices. We wouldn't do it unless we were basically being forced to, but here we are. But it is hopefully still great value for money, and I would say it is still cheaper than, I don't know, a bumper family pack of Monster Munch.

39:47so well worth your money I'm saying anyway anyway that is our little bit of housekeeping it is time now I think to move on to this week's news and we should probably begin with two cancellations two shows have been cancelled Netflix have axed the boroughs yes so OAP Stranger Things is no more yes which is a surprise I think because it got really good reviews we liked it I already liked it but and it was in I'm sure it was in the top 10 like first week but they're ruthless well they haven't been that ruthless have they recently I think this is the most high profile cancellation for a while I would say especially because it's from the Duffer Brothers and I have seen speculation that it's partly to do with their relationship with the Duffer Brothers I don't know if that's speculation trouble in paradise maybe oh sorry you probably found the word paradise quite triggering because you know I know it's taken you a long time to get through that series so I apologise for that very good yes the other thing that's been cancelled is ponies ponies which got great reviews on Peacock yeah it got really good reviews I thought oh okay I said great I'm now going to check maybe they were middling I don't know I think when we reviewed it we I mean I didn't love it no you didn't I liked it more than both of you 76 on Metacritic so good reviews rather than great but yeah I thought I thought that was definitely going to get a second season so I'm rather surprised that didn't it doesn't surprise me I'm not surprised at all in any way I thought it was mid very mid really yes I didn't think it was mid.

41:15I thought it was low. Wow, this is harsh. I thought it was really fun. I'd been started watching Star City and so that was kind of my... Yeah, it's no Star City, obviously. That's much, much, much better. But okay, fine. Well, I was slightly disappointed that I got cancelled but clearly neither of you care and you are dancing on its grave. Hold on a minute. I think you're compromised because you met Amelia Clarke. Do you think that's the reason? She sat where Boyd is sitting even as we speak. We had a good old chat. Yeah, you are completely... Do you think it was? The glow of Amelia Clarke. You're totally in the pocket.

41:44of Clark. In the pocket of Big Clark. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Maybe that's true. Yeah. Dazzled. Dazzled by her presence. Okay. Fine. I'm compromised. I'm so sorry. Anyway, it's been cancelled. So, you know, is what it is. Absolutely. Okay. You know, Nick Mohammed, this is kind of a kiddie story, but I'm going to tell you in a way. Nick Mohammed as Nathan from Ted Lasso. Okay. So he continuing his redemption arc into the real world, right? He is going to be working with BBC to turn the young, his young magician's books into an animated series. so Nathan is fully back and he's nice and he's doing nice things for children now so it's all good everything's fine okay that is good but Nick Muhammad news nonetheless Nick Muhammad is a legend he is he is a legend well I was going to mention in Netflix good news so you had on the downside they actually well that's one show sorry Ponies was was it Ponies was Peacock Peacock yeah but I want to break the entirely not surprising news but if you're wondering why Harlan Coburn books get turned into Netflix shows so consistently and why there are so many of them I will kind of reveal to you that I will find you the latest which we reviewed last week on Plus or do we do on Plus or the regular It was on Plus on Plus yeah I will find you nabbed 24 million views in four days and it's Netflix's biggest new series debut of the year already and I think it's just people can't get enough of this stuff They can't It is very compelling It's so compelling these stories are so compelling the characters are so recognisable they're just exciting you need to know what happens next they're very addictive it's just so it's not going to stop because this is a success machine do you think that if you were to if you were to harness the the dramatic reveals and mystery and compelling story of a Harlan Coburn and put in you know the detailed emotional characters and willies of off campus you would have the perfect TV show that would bring in all audiences maybe I mean, he's got his own YA strand, so he just needs to maybe, you know, sexify.

43:45Sex it up. Sex it up. Bit of ice hockey. What's his YA strand? What do you mean? What's his YA strand? He did a show for Prime Video called Shelter, which was very YA, young people playing. Young Mickey Bolitar, who's another character. Yeah, because the Mickey Bolitar books are his YA books, which is the son of Myron Bolitar, his detective. And they've been turned into a TV show separately for Netflix, I believe. um but yeah he did do a ya shelter was ya and it was pretty yeah it was fun it was fun but he definitely wasn't full full on um penises like um off campus yes well i the the immersive experience of this particular harlan coben i i will find you right i came downstairs and liam was like he's he's he's not in the back of that car he's not in there he's not in there and i was like what what are you doing and he's literally talking to the tv literally and then i said what are you doing he said they think he's in there but he's definitely not in there he's he's miles away and i was like okay i i don't know what's happening but you you get so immersed in it because this one's really kind of the you know because obviously i don't it's not a spoiler i don't think to say that he breaks out of prison we know that he breaks out of prison because it's kind of yeah it's kind of the premise of the thing and i think that brings a level of excitement that you feel like you can be fully immersed into it immersed into it totally yeah um as much as you As much as you can be with the bodies and body parts of those lovely men and women and off campus, I would say.

45:14Indeed, yes. Steph is slightly obsessed. I'm so hot. You're so hot right now. Hot under the collar, Steph, I believe. You're telling us how hot you are, like the cast of Off Campus. Is that what you're saying? They too are hot. I see what you did there. It's a connection. You're hot and you're hot. has anyone watched the trailer for the Ricky Gervais, the new Ricky Gervais project, Alley Cats, which is an animated series of a bunch of cats chatting shit to each other. And in the trailer, you will see, and it's basically, he uses his cast members from Afterlife, particularly Tom Basden, David Earl, Kerry Godman, Joe Hartley, Diane Morgan, Tony Way.

45:56They're all cast members. You'll recognize their voices from Afterlife. and uses their voices in these characters, these cat characters. We will be talking to Ricky soon for the podcast. So I'm excited. There's so much to discuss. For me, the immediate question is, why do an animated sitcom about cats when you love dogs even more? No. No? He's talked about this so much, right? He loves, loves, loves dogs, but he's got cats, hasn't he? Yes, but the only reason he hasn't got a dog is because he's away so much. Yes. But that doesn't mean he can't do an animated series about them. No, but I think the reason why is because cats, okay, I want all the cat lovers to stand down.

46:39Oh, God. There we go. Oh, God. Steph is on the cusp of cancellation. No, I'm not. I'm just saying I think cats are more crafty, and they're a little bit more, you know, they can get away with saying snarky things in the way that you don't get snarky dogs. Do you know what I mean? But cats, you do, I think. That's a good theory. I like the theory. Yeah? Yeah. That's good. Also, I tell you what. I don't know. Jack Russells are quite snarky. I can tell. Really? Jack Russells? Come on, you've got to think of it. No, no, no. It's a compliment. I'm not dissing Jack Russells. I'm just saying they have an inherent snark.

47:09Yeah, but that's because they're ratters and they're constantly, they're considered as ratters, so they're constantly looking for rats. All right, Mr. Croft. They have a snarky bark. Yeah. I used to have, you know, one that was like half Jack Russell. But yeah, I think that is it. And I just want to say, if there was one famous person whose voice I could listen to, if I could only listen to one famous person's voice for the rest of my life it would be Diane Morgan. I love her voice. I cannot get enough Her new series starts soon in a few weeks. Oh, does it? The one about the robot which looks absolutely hilarious.

47:38Very excited about that. Anything Diane Morgan does is gold. If you two could only listen to one famous person's voice for the rest of your life what voice would that be? Patrick Stewart. I knew you were going to say Patrick Stewart. It's Patrick Stewart. He has a delightful speaking voice. God, I have to think. I don't know. We're going to come back to you. Yeah, we'll come back to yours then. Gary Neville. No, mine's Diane Morgan. I literally just said to you, oh my God, that sentence happened like three seconds ago. No, I was listening. I just forgot that's what queued up this whole topic. I still think you're lying and I think it's Gary Neville.

48:17Anyway, anyway. I do love Gary Neville. Do we have any other news? Not a lot has happened, to be fair, since last week's podcast. When you say that, what you really mean is you haven't looked up what's happened. That is accurate. I've got one funny news story my occasional funny headline stories oh I love this it's a variety headline yeah it's a variety headline here we go House of the Dragon Star Olivia Cooke reveals quotes really bad audition for Rey in Star Wars The Force Awakens colon I was shit oh my god do you know what I didn't know that I found out Star Wars related I don't know if anyone else are you guys all watching Cape Fear still people are loving Cape Fear yes yes yes okay people are loving cape fear obviously amy adams is in cape fear and i didn't realize that she was joining the star wars i know this is not tv but kind of is because star wars is tv now she's in starfighter yeah i didn't know she was in starfighter i was so excited yeah that's exciting yeah well it's kind of mine's kind of half film half tv but yeah so yeah olivia could have been ray if she hadn't have been shit in the audition well given that we've moved on to film news at this point i'm suggesting that news is over no no no can i just make one more point in news okay So there are so many crazy headlines about House of the Dragon.

49:24Right. Somebody pulled me up on this, right? Okay. Because someone pulled me up in the comments where they so loved to pull me up, which was something about me saying the House of the Dragon, House of Dragons and House of the Dragon. Someone was annoyed that I couldn't get it right. That is true. But it is hard when it's this hot. There's been sustained heat. Okay. But I'm just going to start calling it HOD, right? There's been a lot of headlines about HOD. Hod, not to be confused with fam. And the kiss and all of this. People are going wild about this season. Have any of you seen any of these?

49:58Yeah, there have been some absolutely superlative five-star reviews of the new season of House of the Dragon. So our review actually felt quite muted by comparison, even though I loved it. But boy, you are pissing all over House of the Dragon chips a little bit, I think. That's unfair. I love episode two more than episode one. So by the time this goes out, episode two will have gone out and everyone can see how it's even better than episode one. I just don't... We'll repeat ourselves. You got stuck on the Battle of the Gullet. I got so... The gullet did not go down for me, or whatever. I just much prefer the talkier...

50:32And even then, actually, there's amazing sequences in... There's fighting and all sorts, and bloodletting of all kinds in episode two. I just think episode two is even better than episode one. Episode one's absolutely great. And it was all to do with the creator calling it the maddest thing on TV ever. I think he really rubbed you up the wrong way with that, didn't he? It's the maddest episode of TV ever, and Boyddy's like, fuck that. Actually, the maddest episode of TV ever is Life, Larry, and the Unpursuit of Happiness. I think we can all agree. I'll agree with you next week when I've watched it.

51:00Yeah, we should drag it and set that on fire. Anyway, anyway, let's move on to this week's reviews. And first up this week, we have The Bear Season 5, the final season of The Bear, picking up after the surprise episode, Gary, which we got a few weeks ago. and this is the last hurrah for Sid, Kami, Richie and the gang and it has, I think it's fair to say, a slightly different flavour to the previous seasons as this entire eight episode season takes place in real time or close enough to it. It's like 24 meets kitchen stories. You know, this is one afternoon and evening at the Bear, what may in fact be the final evening before they're forced to close.

51:39Now, needless to say, everything that can go wrong pretty much does. There are delicious meals being prepared as you would expect. There are on point needle drops and at least one Fack brother falling through the ceiling. Boydie, how many Michelin stars would you give this final season of The Bear? I should say that we have been issued with seven of the eight episodes. Christopher Storer has kept the eighth final episode under lock and keys. We've not seen the finale. But I, for one, have seen all seven. I'm sensing Steph has seen all seven. Boydie, have you seen all seven or are you lazy? I haven't seen all seven.

52:11Lazy it is. World Cup. World Cup. I've seen four though and it becomes increasingly clear because I hadn't read anywhere about the format of this final season but as you watch it you realise, ah, they're telling this in real time and it's quite extraordinary to watch it play out and the fact that not only has Kami essentially lumbered his poor colleagues and sister with the running of this fucking nightmare Cordon Bleu, Hoot Cuisine eatery that he's created and he's well he's just decided to walk away essentially but still work with them and help them in their hour of need and at the same time they're all trying to get the fucking restaurant back on board considering this is the mother of all storms that attacks Chicago and leads to this drains being blocked there's fags and the drains and there's pipes burst and there's shit everywhere and it's a complete on top of everything they have to face basically I had issues about the sanitation of all that I was like this feels like a health and safety hazard honestly yeah what is that stuff can you still open a restaurant if there are feces spraying out on the wall I'm not sure you can exactly and so while all this is happening they're just carrying on they're carrying on regardless like oh yeah we've just got to deal with we'll just ignore the fact there's yes but it's that is the cinematic visual representation of what is going on in their minds guys that's what that rain is I get it I get the unsubtle I mean you know I think the storm the wild storm which they keep showing the shot of the skyline with the storm happening, is unsubtle and metaphor enough for me to get it.

53:51When they do the cigarettes down the drain, and then they uncover that it's the cigarettes blocking the drain, that's Calmy's cigarettes. Of course. Oh, I know, I know. I feel like you're not saying all the right nice things about it. I'm going to let you carry on. I haven't even got there yet. I'm just explaining the milieu that we're in, the backdrop. I'm going to blame the heat again. Don't get carried away. It's fine. but it is immediately, no, you're completely reminded how brilliant the storytelling in this show is. The characters are also fascinating and three-dimensional, interesting. I love the fact that the sister, Natalie, has dropped her kid off with the mom, Jamie Lee Curtis, but she's monitoring it because she does not trust Jamie Lee Curtis not to be a complete psycho.

54:37And she's like, are you going to be weird or are you not going to be weird? And she's listening to make sure she can monitor that whilst trying to help with this opening, with the opening the restaurant, despite of all the incredible number of things that are in the way, problems that are in their way. I just, to be back with these characters is brilliant. I think it's fantastically well done. The needle drops are amazing as ever. It looks brilliant. Just the attention to detail, the attention to detail of the show itself mirrors the attention to detail that the chefs have when they're making the food.

55:08So there's all these like brilliant moments when the food is being cooked up that you're like, this is truly how it would work in a five-star, two, three-star, how many Michelin stars can you get? Three, I think, is the maximum, isn't it? I think so. We need a number crunch, that. I think it's three stars. Do you think they give the stars to the restaurants after they eat and there is a preview of what they think the restaurant will be like before they eat their... Oh, no, they 100 % are. Steph, that was a snarky in-joke. Oh, about review. Oh, sorry. Star ratings in heat. Yeah, very good. You know this whole book coming out written by my friend Ben G.

55:39Wilson? Ben G. Wilson. about star ratings, the history of star ratings. And it's called Rate This Book. And it literally tells you the whole story of how the whole idea of rating stuff has been... It explores the whole history of it going back like thousands of years, I think, to like Roman times. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's really interesting. So it's a whole subject there, James, that we can address. Noted. At other time. But I know, I loved it. It's fucking brilliant. And it's like, it's, you know, it's just intense. It's the tension of this whole, final season is brilliant because you really want them you're really rooting for everyone involved to kind of somehow pull off this rescue of this fucking restaurant there's an absolute disaster zone um and you just it's just fantastically well done so no i absolutely loved it steph just to to calm me all your fears to calm me all your fears exactly i really set up on you there didn't you did yeah i wasn't going my way but i think i i think like i was like james said you're like what What is happening with this stuff spewing out of the pipes?

56:41And they almost just carry on regardless. Particularly Richie. He's like, Richie's just going to do whatever needs to be done. Richie's going through his zen era. Yeah, exactly. Which in his case involves just ploughing on and just completely ignoring all negative issues that are happening as we speak. Carry on, Steph. Right. I've always loved the bear and I think I was absolutely incensed that we didn't because i watched all seven episodes in one evening as you should as you should because they're not long they're short half of them are like 25 minutes do yourself a favor and watch it in one sitting because i think that experience for me was oh god it was just divine um yeah i was so upset we didn't get but it was okay because it the end of season and the end of episode seven kind of finishes on a we're going to wrap everything up in the next in the next episode so it's okay the shift ends should we say it sets the table for the finale exactly so right things that i love about this apart from absolutely everything cinematography is in these episodes is stunning it is absolutely stunning um i love everybody's come back and they're all questioning themselves because remember when we left in season four they you know we leave them outside at the back of the restaurant he he he tell he tells sid you're the bear you're the bear and then that's the secret they're keeping and they haven't told the rest of the staff um and that unravels in this i love i love them navigating these individual challenges together because even though they're so they're so siloed in their individual personal growth they have to come together in this episode at certain points which is such an interesting dynamic the whole way how um kami is trying to to sit in this new his sit in his new position of like i i don't i don't want to be an asshole anymore i i don't know if this is my passion anymore god it's just so layered i the characters are just incredible um yeah i love ao she's an absolute mvp in this whole thing for me i don't know how i just i don't know her character cannot be bettered she's and she's brilliant in this and obviously she is still very much in love with cooking very much in love with being a chef and but should she take over you know all of these questions and you're just living every minute because it's done so cleverly like this.

58:58You're living every minute with them and I love Richie's character. There's also a really interesting shift in one of the characters, Marcus, and I'm not going to spoil anything, but I think that is something that I didn't see coming, which I thought was... Will Porter is still on hand, which is great. Marcus and Will Porter. What's Will Porter's character called? Luca. Their relationship, their friendship is so amazing. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think Will Porter is the most soulful actor out there. And this role is like everything that's brilliant about him times a thousand.

59:32And the fact that he and Marcus have this relationship is just fabulous. It's just brilliant. So that's actually my favourite thing about The Bear, I have to say. I think that... Ayo Dabiri is incredible. Don't get me wrong. They're all incredible. You know what I mean? Everyone's good. But there's something incredibly profoundly moving about those two together. I mean, I love anything that explores male relationships. Any kind of... We've established that quite early on in this point. podcast not just those relationships but anything that that explores kind of the emotional friendships that between two men and this is this is done to absolute like it really is it's incredible i don't have enough good words for it no can i can i ask a question jeremy allen white uh who you are close personal friends with boyd i know that because you greeted him warmly outside the studio some months ago when he was in for the bruce springsteen film and eba mos bacrat both have eyes that are so blue, it's almost Fremen from Dune.

1:00:22They have the eyes of Ibad. It's absolutely piercing. And I'm watching it, I'm like, have they done something? Do they do something with the saturation? Because I don't believe any non-Fremen person has eyes that blue. It's a real thing, actually. Funny you should mention that, because I think it's the Spielberg film, Disclosure Day, has a lot of intense eye action going on as well. And there's another team, and Cape Fear, I think sparkly blue weird eyes in his case contact lenses in contact lenses it seems to be all the rage there seems to be a whole eye based thing going on in very very well shot film and TV shows so it is a thing it's becoming a thing I think it's particularly salient here because Christopher Stora has a thing for extreme close ups where the camera pretty much resides in the pores on Jeremy Allen White's face like it is so as an actor I'd find it quite disconcerting because it must be right up in there He loves doing that thing where you start the first shot of a sequence and such an intense close-up on something, you don't know what it is.

1:01:26And then he pans back and you're like, oh, it's a thing. It's an item of food or something. And one of the things I loved about this particular show, one of the first lines in the first episode of this, is what I thought is a pretty deep-cut quote. Ritchie, very film-literate, bit of a cinephile, but he quotes Tony Scott's The Last Boy Scout at the beginning of this, of the first episode, which is absolutely fucking mad. This is Shane Black's script. He wrote that for The Last Boy. It's got a great script. Not everyone involved in that film loves it, but I love it. And me and Chris Hewitt quote this film endlessly.

1:02:00Who doesn't love it? I love that film. I've loved that film since it came out. I've seen it so many times. Everyone loves that film, James. When he looks in the mirror and he's like, nobody likes you, everybody hates you, you're going to lose. Smile, you fuck. And I thought, it's such an, like, who knows that fucking quote? Like, genuinely. I just thought that was a lovely touch of really obscure quote from a film that I maintain not a lot of people know or like. But I really enjoyed that. And I loved everything about this series. I loved the food. I loved the character stuff. And I loved the fact that, because some of the criticisms, particularly season two of this, but some of the other seasons have been that the seasons have lacked velocity and lacked focus.

1:02:38And sometimes they've seemed a little bit woolly and a little bit all over the place and not sure where they're going. and I think the shift in this particular season to making it real time, to making it focused on one day, one afternoon, one evening, one service, makes it so laser focused and it gives it such drive that it feels to me like it's almost the best of both worlds where it's the bear meets boiling point because it has that almost real time, it's not a one-up by any stretch, but it has that real time velocity and the stress of being in a kitchen and unwavering and kind of just living through that service, especially when everything's going wrong.

1:03:14There's water coming in the restaurant. People have overbooked. They don't have enough tables. They don't have enough food. They're running out of money. The restaurant might close. There's no electricity. There's no electricity. Everything is going wrong. And the tension and the stress. It is so stressful, but not in an anxiety-inducing way because it's also very funny and touching. I was about to say that. It's so funny. It's so, like, it's so, you know, your heart swells when you watch some of these episodes because they're just lovely and it feels like all of the different threads are coming together in this final season.

1:03:41this might be my favourite season of the bear I think it is I agree spectacular me too I totally agree with absolutely everything you said it's my favourite season of the bear and to talk about comic relief in this in this show the Fack Brothers I mean who doesn't love a Fack how genius how genius and there's a great scene I thought you were talking about Red Nose Day for a minute there no as in comic relief as a you know as a thing like just the fact that those two are they're Laurel and Hardy aren't they They're amazing. There's a scene in the toilet and it's so, so funny. What a brilliant idea, though, on his part, the showrunner, who's not my fedora, thank you, to do it this way, to have it all about one night, one service, and the kind of real-time device.

1:04:29I think that's such a clever idea. And we mustn't forget the great... Definitely is the show with the greatest needle drops of recent years. Yeah. Just to name some of them. Radiohead, Pearl Jam, The Replacements, Genesis R.E.M. Taylor Swift Oasis Taylor Swift Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin by the way they use That's The Way Led Zeppelin is renowned for being incredibly expensive if you want to use a Led Zeppelin song or anything how much money they must have spent on the music rights for this show oh my god I reckon it must be at least half the budget and the way they use all of them is so exciting one of the best things about the whole show for me is the use of music and the use of great songs yeah so it's phenomenal a fabulous season of a fabulous show The Bear Then which lands on Disney Plus well I think it's all there now isn't it it's out there now and all the episodes as well all at once so even though we were denying the finale everyone can see the whole thing including the finale as it has arrived and we will have seen the finale by the time this podcast goes out so we just haven't seen it oh as soon as that drops I'm dropping everything to watch it which is tomorrow morning as we record right fabulous I'll be there at 6am and for everyone who enjoyed the original birth of Chicago land joke from season one, I would say that that makes an encore.

1:05:47It does. Okay, next up, we have Elle on Prime, and this is a spin-off of the 2001 Reese Witherspoon film, Legally Blonde, which takes her character, Elle Woods, played here by Lexi Mintree, back to her origins as a kind of perky pink-clad high schooler who gets transplanted from her home in LA to 90s Seattle. which was the home of grunge and crucially not a pink friendly environment. So Steph, as Russell Crowe once famously said, unleash L. Oh, nice. God, I love Gladiator. Right. Okay. God, I'm really struggling to find anything good to say about this. Okay. Right. I'm just, let's lay our cards on the table.

1:06:32One, not enough. Let's lay our cards on the table. I feel like, you know, there's a lot of kind of teen college age dramas coming at us. Okay. We've talked about this. We're seeing a lot. So it's allowing us to really dig into what separates the good, the bad from the incredibly unfunny, which is what this is. Right. Okay. This is a prequel. It happens before the film Legally Blonde is set. Legally Blonde, obviously, look, you know, Legally Blonde is a fantastic film. Everyone knows that. if it wasn't a fantastic film there wouldn't be a musical about it okay right but okay it's just not good and here's the reasons why right lexi mindtree who plays l is lovely and my god this girl's giving her best right but she's giving her best in what is an absolutely tired plot in that girl who doesn't fit in goes to school and encounters bullies who are no and then overcomes because even though she's really pretty and she loves to wear pink and she doesn't want to change she tries to fit in with them they don't accept her and then ultimately what will happen is she'll overcome they'll accept her and you know that's what's going to happen okay but my god it's dull it's just like I don't the bullying parts of it I thought were way too much and I I thought it was actually, it was so mean.

1:07:55I thought, I don't need to watch this. It made me feel uncomfortable because it was relentless, the bullying. In the first episode, the bullying that she receives and the people not accepting her, it's just, they hammer the point home with every single character she encounters. And it's just not necessary. Every move she makes to try and fit in is rebuffed. And she doesn't make, she makes a tiny bit of headway, but it's not enough to sustain a first episode. people have been saying okay this is this is the point about this is to show that you can be like pretty and lovely you know you know outwardly beautiful but also you can be career driven and it's like a it's a feminist story but it isn't it's just this and if you're going to tell that story there's so many better ways to tell it and my last point right so I think it's basic there's too much bullying I think we're in a world where people are doing these kinds of stories they're doing them better um like in droves um and the other thing that's frustrates me about this is it's not as if we haven't had better before that they could have looked at riverdale dawson's creek oc my so-called life watch any of those if you've never watched them if you're coming of age to watch this kind of thing oh well obviously off campus because but then you know in in the way you know clueless obviously a great film when the one that you might one might confuse some people might confuse the two but they had a spin-off okay they had a they They had a series.

1:09:20And as a stage musical as well. Yeah. The series retained some of the film characters in the series. And it worked. And it wasn't amazing. But it definitely worked. Donald Faison, who was in the original film, was in the series. This retains no one, obviously, because it's a prequel as well. But it's just rubbish. I just really, I honestly really just, I think it's going to, I can't imagine why anyone would watch this over and above any of the other things. even every year after like even things like that which I oh Steph's gone for the jugular she's gone there even that is that is better than this and I like to every year after I think this is better than every year after I'm not sure it is I mean I really didn't like I think you're wrong I think you're wrong but let's see what you think I really didn't like every year after but this isn't good no it's funny because I haven't seen Legally Blonde I don't think since it came out It has a charm.

1:10:19And I think Reese Witherspoon is a large part of that. But she's a fairly one-note character. But Legally Blonde's thing is not, here is girl who doesn't fit in. It's here's girl who seems incredibly ditzy, but is actually incredibly smart and capable. So it's all about underestimating the character. This is so weird. But what I was going to say was, I can't remember, it's literally decades since I saw the film, but is it, I mean, essentially, if you stand back for a minute, this story is about a white, wealthy, upper class spoiled blonde beautiful young woman being ostracized by by by grunge indie kids in Seattle yeah who all listen to Nirvana and Pearl Jam who as you say are bullying her for what reason because she's like blonde and wears a lot of pink and is really rich and wants to fit in and she's and they all hate her because of that somehow why it's such a weird so basic basic concept that for me doesn't work on any level of reality or whatever.

1:11:20And I guess I can't compare it to the film because I just can't remember. But if the film was kind of about that, I was like, oh, okay. That's quite interesting. But it's so weird that everyone's so angry with her. Why? Like, she's a perfectly nice person. It's just an odd premise for me. I think the idea here is that, obviously bearing in mind that she represents everything that that counterculture grunge scene kind of rails against. I know, but come on. So that's the thing. They all wear basically greys and blacks. and she wears exclusively pink. I actually, halfway through, I was thinking, a couple of things raised a smile in me.

1:11:53I quite like the fact that she's taken from her Californian sunny world into like the grey rainy, it's always raining in Seattle and everyone's, literally everyone's wearing Nirvana t-shirts and listening to Pearl Jam. You know, it's like, that is quite a funny idea. This was like my friend group at school, by the way. Exactly. I'm too old. I was in the late 80s, but I kind of recognize because I went through a similar thing in the 80s whereby, you know, feminism and political correctness was all happening in the mid to late 80s and then carried on through the 90s. But I just think this is such, it just struck me as such an odd concept.

1:12:29Yeah, it's fine. I genuinely have less annoyed me about it than every year after, which is the immediate comparison. But obviously, it's not good. Can I just, can I say one thing about it? Of course. So the other thing that really wound me up and I want to know if this, because when we're talking about these kind of school subgroups, right, it really, really wound me up that they took that scene from Clueless, that exact scene where they're walking through, like, they're getting to the door and they're saying, they're identifying all the different subgroups in school and she walks her through the cafeteria and she says, that's where the Microsoft kicks it, that's where, and I was just like, I'll come up with something new, fresh.

1:13:11To be fair, to be fair, that's actually a gag. The whole point is, It's a riff on that, but every single one of them looked the same. Like, that's the gag. Yeah, that's fair. I actually didn't mind that gag. No, I didn't mind. Because it's kind of a riff on that whole 10 things, teens movie thing. For me, what summed up the lame lack of creativity in this show was the meet-cute between her and the hunky... Is he a basketball player or whatever? Is he basketball? It's not ice hockey, I can tell you that. It's not ice hockey. The hunky, handsome basketball player. The ingenious meet-cute they come up with is he rumps into her.

1:13:43He bumps into her. Literally, that is it. I've come up with something better than that. And then they're just looking at each other for about 30 seconds. They know, obviously, he's the love interest. And the other thing I want to say is the British character, Dustin, of whom she said something like, oh, I thought you were all really weird, but you're just British. Just British. Yeah, which is fine. But he is played by someone whose actual name is Zach Looker. I consider that to be one of the greatest names in current youth acting. So all hail Zach Looker, who does his best, by the way, as Dustin, the British guy, and he's kind of the best character for me.

1:14:18And he's just called Zach Looker. But yeah, it's not good. And there's absolutely no one on God's Earth I'm ever going to watch any more of it. No, I think that's fair. This came about, by the way, because Reese Witherspoon was watching Wednesday and it made her think she'd really like to see a young Elle Woods series. Oh, it's her production company. Yeah, so she's behind it. And the person who wrote the book that League of London is based on is an exec producer. So I think lots of people are involved. But as you say, there are so many other shows that just do this better. it's like why and many of them are on Prime it's like why would you why would you watch this yeah 100 % yeah can you did you really not did you hate it James as much as I did I didn't hate it I didn't enjoy it I didn't hate it as much as I hated Life Larry and the Pursuit of Unhappiness for example poor Larry what an indictment oh my god poor Larry but I did not enjoy it and nothing could make me watch another episode of it no nothing nothing at all so you think it was worse than every year after or better than every year after?

1:15:16I would 100 % watch every year after over this. Really? Wow. Without a doubt. Oh, I don't know. Yeah, without a doubt. Okay. Elven, which is on Prime Video when, Boydie? Wednesday, the 1st of July, 2026. Fabulous. Or not, as the case may be. Right, finally this week we have Silo, season three, the penultimate series, I should say, of Apple's post-apocalyptic science fiction series which sees Rebecca Ferguson and 10 ,000 other people, and they are survivors living at the apocalypse in a mile-deep underground bunker. And this is based on Hugh Howey's novels, his Wool series, although this has now moved largely onto the second book, which was Shift.

1:15:56And this introduces an all-new sort of split narrative structure. So you've got Jessica Hennig and Ashley Zuckerman, who you saw at the end of season two. They are looking into the silos' origins before the apocalypse begins, and then you've got Rebecca Ferguson in the kind of present, which is actually the future. Does that make sense? Good, I'm glad. Boydie, is this a hole you would gladly dig for yourself? To call you an a-hole. Yeah, that too. What are you saying?

1:16:24I famously annoyed you when we reviewed episode one of the previous season. Did you? Yes, because I hadn't finished. I didn't realize, were you wrong about season one? No, no, no, no, no. I just hadn't finished season one. And I had to plow one with season two. I didn't have time to catch up. And let me guess, you haven't finished now seasons one or two. I absolutely had not finished season two before I had to embark upon season three for this very podcast. And I'm sure, Steph, because she's so diligent, and I don't believe you're watching as much more cup as I am, if you managed to catch up on all of the episodes of Silo in time for the...

1:16:55No. Okay, good. I did a 30-minute Silo catch-up. If you don't know anything about Silo, watch this. Where did you get that from? Is it online or something? Oh, my God. Do you remember a listener wrote in a while back and said, if you haven't can I recommend you watch because people do these catch-ups and they're absolutely brilliant so now I know listen I can talk about Flame Keepers all day is what I'm saying but what I would say is I had the similar reaction right to the fact that I hadn't managed to finish season one when I watched season two this time around which is that this is an absolutely excellent show I cannot you know I cannot disagree with you that it's a really it's a brilliant concept and it's incredibly well done in terms of the world building of the silos and the floors and the stairs, the corridors, the huge window into the supposedly poisoned world, is it or isn't it poisoned?

1:17:52Well, it's a screen, but I'll let you know. It's a screen. What did I call it? Window? Yeah, screen. And then in season three, to make it even better, you've got this really interesting conspiracy theory storyline, which for me, I love a conspiracy theory storyline in general. It's got a real kind of all the president's men kind of three days of the condor vibe to it, like a 70s, even down to the way it's shot, everything. And as if that wasn't enough, to add to the overall joy of it, who pops up in the middle of this show than Morvan Christie, who is a brilliant British-Scottish actress who you recognize from Grantchester.

1:18:29She was in The Bay, the first season of The Bay. she's a brilliant I've interviewed her many many times and she's she's a fantastic and she's and I think this is she's brilliant I was like I recognise her and I hadn't really thought about the cast or anything before I started watching it and I hadn't properly read the press release etc I was like who is that it's absolutely Morven Christie and so she's in the right in the middle of this of the conspiracy storyline which by the way rests upon the idea the very topical idea that Iran has unleashed a dirty bomb in Washington, D.C. And it's interesting how many Iranian-based storylines there are right now coming out.

1:19:07Clearly, like, the creators have gone, like, years or months ago. So it's in the book. Well, it's actually... Do you know what? I don't know if it's specifically Iran in the book, but Iran is mentioned at the end of season two. So it's set up at the end of... It's interesting how, yeah, Iran has become the go-to kind of, like, villain or just place to set terrorism, et cetera, this kind of thing. So I think it's brilliantly done. I think... I mean, she's fantastic. obviously all the way through Rebecca Ferguson she's an exec producer as well I don't know why I didn't finish the first two seasons lazy unprofessional I don't know it just dropped off my mental watch list but I really feel I should I'm going to 100 % finish this one if it kills me don't fucking go back and finish the first one no what's wrong with you they're over I'm now immersed I'm immersed in season 3 the split storylines you are the actual worst yeah but you know No, no, no, but it is really, really good.

1:20:01I would say that. I think it's an excellent series. But just not good enough for you to watch all the episodes? No, it totally is good enough. It was just, yeah, a packed calendar. You know they still exist. They've not been erased. You can still go back and watch them. They're still there. I know, but I had to review these episodes and I watched three or four of this series. I tell you what, James, when you watch all of Widow's Bay, and Boyd will have watched all of Simon. Whose side are you on? Yeah, exactly. Good point. Well made. um yeah okay Steph gone hit us with it right no you right as I've said many times before like I am very open-minded and I will watch anything but one of the things that I do not like is anything start again shows starting again okay and I think we had a little bit of discussion before James where you said listen I think silo is a bit different because actually that you know there's a world and it's not just this kind of dystopia it's dystopians that landscapes it's like the nothingness of it and people having to literally find water find all of that I can't be doing with it um but that said what I did was I watched the I watched episode three I watched this first episode of season three and I was like well there's absolutely no way I'm gonna have I don't understand anything that's going on this is absolutely insane so then I stopped it 10 minutes and watched the the the catch-up thing and I was like god I'm well into this it's absolutely it's absolutely an amazing concept it's brilliant and what i really like is they limit the nothingness shots that they really do like you only get to see that screen very briefly i didn't realize i mean my god the cast is stellar i didn't realize rashida jones had been in it tim robbins i mean my god the people they've got common who i love as an actor um harriet water yeah i mean there's everyone's yeah harriet water's amazing but when i what so i'm i'm all for this and i'm definitely will continue continue watching this but you know what i'm going to say something you're going to think is really strange this this is a winter show this is for me a winter show no no it is this is you've really broken it i don't even know what to do with that information for me for me right i tell you why okay is el a summer show then l is a l is a never no season yeah right i tell you why because it's it you know the aesthetic is underground the aesthetic is dark and in order for me to fully immerse myself in the show which i want to do because i because i think it's really good and what i've seen so far i've really enjoyed i need to be in a cave-like atmosphere of when it turns dark at three o 'clock and i think for me I couldn't fully invest myself in it because it was very hot.

1:22:50Of all of the mad opinions you've had on this podcast, that is possibly the worst. That is an interesting take. Okay, I bet you, I bet you now, that there are listeners out there who are like, yeah, I'm going to save that for the winter. It feels like a show. It feels like a show you're watching winter. Half the storyline now, is set in quite summery Washington DC in the past. So at least half this season is quite sunny. No, it's about being underground for me. And I think, if I'm going to start this properly, it needs to be, I need to be, it's a winter show. I'm just saying, it's not that mad.

1:23:24It's a winter show. It's deranged, as indeed are you. I cannot even, I cannot even with that. So I was, as you know, on set of this particular season. I went to the silo at Apple Studio, hung out with my close person friend, Tim Cook. Spoke to Graham, we also showrunner, interviewed Rebecca Ferguson. I love this show. Also not a surprise. I think this is the best season so far. I do. Yeah, I would agree. I think it's fantastic. I think the split narrative works really well. I think the stakes when you're in the silo are extremely high. They made a really sensible choice here because the book shift is only focusing on the Ashley Zuckerman, Jessica Hennick timeline.

1:24:02Whereas what they've done here is you've got elements of new stuff in there and then they've pulled some elements from Dust, the third novel, into this as well. And it is so compelling and it is so addictive. I watched this entire season some months ago. Of course you did. But I really, really do love it. I think it is so good. And this is a year where, because it's kind of been a mystery show. It was like a murder mystery in the first series and there's a mystery in the second one. Like a lot of answers get delivered in this particular season and it feels like you make a lot of progress and the kind of rug pull end of this season will knock your socks off.

1:24:38Like it's really, really good. There is a fourth season coming. Don't wait till the winter to watch it, Steph. Don't wait till the winter. It's a perfectly summery show. No, no, no. The fourth season of this show has already been shot. It is in the can. They have wrapped. They presumably disassembled the silo set. So I can't go back there. But the fourth season will come, I presume, next year. How much of the huge big stairs, the main feature of the... How much of that is real on the set? I ran up and down the stairs. It doesn't go a mile beneath the surface. I will tell you that. So they've got two of them, actually.

1:25:10they've got one big one with sort of green screen all around it where they can sort of put in whatever floors they're walking through and then at one point the stairs get blown up so they have a second one which has the blown up section of the staircase and that's in a completely different part of the studio but yes I played on both of them of course you did I mean Rebecca Ferguson is compelling enough as the former engineer she's incredible she can't remember as well the story we should say there's an amnesia story because there's a big twist So the season two ended with a big twist and then it had an extended epilogue, which was the Zuckerman-Henegger introduced to the other timeline.

1:25:47Yeah, right. But it also had a big like, oh my God, what's happened? Oh, by the way, I did watch that episode. Of course you did, because God forbid you watch things in order or properly. Yes, or in the correct season, according to Steph. I can't work out whether you're more offended by me not watching all the episodes or Steph waiting to the winter. I'm absolutely furious with both of you. Honestly, it's utterly unacceptable. But it's wonderful. It's brilliant. If you haven't seen it, for the love of God, go back and watch it from season one as you are supposed to do. And it doesn't matter that it's 37 degrees outside.

1:26:18It's perfectly fine for this weather. You don't need to wait until it's a little bit more autumnal, Steph. Honestly, it's wonderful. Oh, no, you know what? Sort of late autumn. Oh, I see. Fine. Oh, okay. So it's a bi-season show. Give us the exact date to where we should start watching it. I'm thinking kind of around November 10th. so you can go in. November? November. Oh my God, it's like rivals. We have to wait until November for everything all of a sudden. Please never listen to anything Steph says. That's my solemn entreaty to you. Right, Silo, which is available on Apple TV plus when or Apple TV as it's called on Friday.

1:26:54Apple TV, just called Apple TV. Friday the 3rd of July 26th. Fabulous. Okay, I'm just going to say this. A show for all seasons. I'm just going to say this. You know like how days have colours? You know like how Tuesday's blue and Wednesday's green? No! What? I mean, when you say when you say you know how what are you talking about and you then say something insane have you got synesthesia like what is going on what is Sunday's red Saturday's yellow everyone knows this oh my god days like shows are like that I'm just saying oh they know I can't be the only one oh I can't let's move on shall we what else is out this week Boydie whether it can be seen in the summer or the spring or the autumn or the winter there isn't a lot but there is X-Men 97

1:27:40Oh, God. Wow. Okay. Season 2 launches on Disney Plus on Wednesday. You're actually watching that show? No, I didn't. I was obsessed with X-Men the Animated Series when I was at university, and we see I watch it every day. But no, I don't watch this show. X-Men the Animated Series is so good, James. What? But that's what this is, Steph. So why aren't you watching this? Oh, I know, yeah. Steph is a fan of X-Men. Yes, X-Men 97 is unfortunately... I would have got you to write the preview. Unfortunately, it's a spring show. I'm never going to live this down, but I stand by it. I stand by it. From Friday, Channel 4 is streaming Suits LA, which is obviously the latest entry in the Suits franchise.

1:28:19Sounds essential. Stephen M. L. Is in it. But I don't believe that, what's her name, Meghan Markle? Meghan Markle. No, no, no. Fire Country. Do you know about that show? It's a huge phenomenon in America. That's the late season that starts on Sky Witness and now on today, Monday the 29th of June, nine o 'clock. I think that might be, oh, Human Vapor. There's a thing called Human Vapor that starts on Netflix on Thursday, the 2nd of July, which is a Korean TV show about, it sounds very meta because it's about people rebooting a film franchise with a thing called the Human Vapor and then it turns out to be there really is a Human Vapor.

1:29:04That's getting people. I think that's what it's about anyway. But yeah, that starts on Thursday, the 2nd of July. And I think that might be about it. That sounds like the plot of Wonder Man, but that's neither here nor there. It does a bit, actually. Okay, brilliant. What is our pick of the week? It's got to be the bear. I mean, Silo's really good, don't get me wrong. It's 100 % the bear. It's the bear and Silo. The best seasons of both shows. What are them both? James, I don't think I've seen you this level of exasperation. I just can't. Honestly, the pair of you, you've driven me to despair.

1:29:37Wow. Okay, that's it for this podcast. Dear God in heaven. Please do leave us a five-star rating. Please do not cancel your subscription to Pilot Plus, even though the prices are going up. And if you have not already subscribed to Pilot Plus, please do subscribe now and lock in the current price for a year so you don't have to pay any more than absolutely necessary. On next week's podcast, Trying is back on Apple TV. Little House on the Prairie is coming to Netflix. Oh, yes. and the Westies comes to MGM+. We're going to speak to Esther Smith for trying, and we have J.K. Simmons and Tom Brittany for the Westies as well.

1:30:10We'll probably put that on the show the week after, but very exciting. Okay, brilliant. We're it. We're done. Steph, I hope you're having fun at home. Obviously, it's very summer weather, not winter weather, so you'll have some very clear summer viewing. I hope you enjoy it. But you know what, James? Winter is coming. Winter is coming, and thus, with it, silent. Honestly, I don't know why I do this podcast. Pilot out.