The Dark, Human Vapor, and X-Men ‘97. With guest Esther Smith

7:17Pilot TV Hosts:She's not one of Nature's great conversations. So, yeah, it was quite bizarre, the whole thing.

7:24Esther Smith:Because her video for that song that she released is amazing. Incredible people.

7:28Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, you know. And she kind of touches on that briefly, but even then it's not that interesting an answer and stuff. So, yeah, she's got great people in that video. So she's a bit tired.

7:38Esther Smith:I don't know if she's tired. I think she's just not as an artist just generally just like feeling fatigued yeah I think she's a bit like over it and a bit like oh god

7:46Pilot TV Hosts:I don't know I think maybe she's always been a bit like this where she's she's not an anecdotalist that's another way of putting it you know the whole Graham Norton show of course and by the way this is nothing like they're not just sitting there having a chat it's got quite a contrived format whereby you see him on his way to meet her we call it Coco in Camden near our old office and this whole thing about the venue. There's a lot of mucking about. There's a lot of stuff happening before they actually get down to a chat. And even then when they get down to a chat, they're standing there on stage chatting away and it's just a bit awkward.

8:23Pilot TV Hosts:All the way through, it's a bit awkward. And as I say, in Graham Norton's show, if she'd bid on that as a guest, which I think she has done before, then it'd probably be better because everyone's, the whole point of that show is you're all telling your best anecdotes, right? That's literally how it works. in the pre-interview chat with the researchers they get they extract these anecdotes from the guests and he queues them up he pops them up that's what happens in this it's like there are no anecdotes oh god it's just like overall themes but do you think it's because she

8:51Esther Smith:has never she's not met anyone more famous than her and she kind of does so it's just been like a little bit do you know what I mean it's like if you're Madonna who are you going to fangirl over like no I mean if she's met Belmont

9:02Pilot TV Hosts:she's really nice with Kylie the Kylie scene is like is the highlight because she's really she's lovely with her and you know and apart from not having the drink that she hates the drink that's a nice moment but even then she said that's weird as well because she goes Graham goes does this mean you know you've recorded a song together for the album she goes I'm not telling you why do you keep she says something like why do you keep asking me questions or something like that and you're like it's trying to be funny but even then this is a fucking interview I can't watch it

9:31Esther Smith:it sounds too cringy it is quite cringy is it

9:33Pilot TV Hosts:it really is quite cringy but anyway I watched that so you don't have to. Okay, thanks.

9:38Esther Smith:Appreciate it.

9:39Pilot TV Hosts:I can reveal exclusively that I've finished Paradise. Wow. Oh, well done. Yeah, finally.

9:44Esther Smith:Okay, over to you for Widow's Bay.

9:47Pilot TV Hosts:Do you know what? I do need to get on the Widow's Tray wagon. Not least of all, because it is now, as we record, the 1st of July, which means we need to do our half-year review. And so, there are two approaches to this. Either we present four distinct and separate lists, or, or we try and have a combined pilot list. Or, and I've just had an idea. Right, okay, this is what we're going to do. We're going to have blind lists. I've just decided. We're going to have blind lists. You're going to do one. You're going to do one. Kay's going to do one. I'm going to do one. And none of you are going to know what the other people have voted for.

10:23Esther Smith:Except everyone will say off campus.

10:24Pilot TV Hosts:And then I'm going to tally them together using just mathematics and I'm going to create a master list.

10:31Esther Smith:What would the other way of tallying them together be if you didn't use just mathematics. Shut up, Steph.

10:37Pilot TV Hosts:No, it's going to be good because you're not going to know. You're not going to know what it is ahead of time. Yes, that's how we're going to do it.

10:43Esther Smith:There can be no conferring. But you could fix this.

10:47Pilot TV Hosts:I could, but I won't because I'm pathologically honest. And you'll also know because I'll undoubtedly be furious about the list afterwards. But yeah, that's what we're going to do.

10:54Esther Smith:You, me and Kay will get together beforehand and just try and, you know, ruin this life. Okay, and there's going to be two rules.

11:00Pilot TV Hosts:One rule, no conferring. second rule and this is the most important rule and it applies primarily to you no tactical voting which means if you put something at number two it has to be the one that you genuinely think will be at number two not because you think well no one else will vote for it and I want it to be higher up the list it can be no tactical voting it has to represent I like the way he's implying that I usually that's exactly what I'm implying and we will go through this I think you tactically vote more than I do I will not be tactically voting I will not be I will put I'll put it down, call it as I see it.

11:33Esther Smith:I think we can tell you now that Silo's not going to be on it.

11:35Pilot TV Hosts:I think you'll find it might. I actually really like Silo. I like Silo as well. There we go. It might be on the list. Silo's not an issue. There are other issues.

11:44Esther Smith:No, there are other issues. Okay.

11:46Pilot TV Hosts:Well, let's see. All right, that's exciting. I feel like before we do the list, I should watch at least a couple more Widow's Base. You have to get to... You've watched the whole thing yet?

11:54Esther Smith:No, I've got one left because remember I went on to Off Camera.

11:56Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, the former champion here. I know, I know. I think the penultimate one, which is, I would describe, we're spoiling it, the Halloween-y type one, if you're talking about the different genres. It explores various horror genres. And there's one episode, I think it's the penultimate, which is Halloween-y one, is phenomenal. And I think if you watch that one, I watched that one, I thought, oh, this is the one James has got to watch because it's so well done.

12:19Esther Smith:I think even by the second episode with the clown thing, this is not too much of a spoiler, when he's in the crawl space. I think from that point, you're like, oh god this is horror and it's done do you know what I mean

12:30Pilot TV Hosts:sure yeah yeah

12:31Esther Smith:or if I do that yeah

12:33Pilot TV Hosts:yeah I haven't finished one I'm watching it no keep going though thanks man oh yeah so Paradise so we can do a Spoiler Special Paradise at some point we've got so many Spoiler Specials to do now it's ridiculous because Widow's Bay

12:45Esther Smith:we're doing Widow's Bay

12:45Pilot TV Hosts:but I have issues with it as well so we need to discuss it there's a lot to discuss with that show you know what you haven't finished watching no The Pit yeah The Pit which has finished as this podcast goes out I've had an HBO Max disaster. Yeah, what's happening with HBO Max? I feel like this is a relatively easy thing to fix.

13:02Esther Smith:I don't think it is because he would have fixed it. What is it?

13:05Pilot TV Hosts:I couldn't fix it. And then now the thing has gone by. I'm just going to have to pay for it now. It's fine. I will pay for it. I don't care. It's fine. Okay. Yeah. But the statute of limitations, if you like, of when you can sign on for free with HBO Max has gone.

13:20Esther Smith:Oh, with the crossover with the Sky thing. Hang on.

13:22Pilot TV Hosts:I left it too late. Hang on. No, no, no, no. like it's part of the sky package so you can definitely get it no no no of course yeah but no but i can but to get the premium version oh oh right i i wonder are you telling me you want you don't watch the the 4k so just to be clear your issue is not that you can't get hbo max is that you cannot get it in 4k no no no no i could have got it in four i could have got it the premium version of hbo max was offered to me kindly for six months yes and that has and i and i tried to do it and I couldn't get it to work and now it's just gone. Right. Now I have to pay for it and of course I'm not going to pay for the version where you don't get 4K.

14:01Pilot TV Hosts:But that's free. You have that by default because you have Sky. I know that but what I'm saying is yeah I have to pay for the 4K version obviously like you would obviously. Yeah but I'm just saying if you needed to watch the finale of The Pit you could just watch it in 1080p and it wouldn't kill you. Oh right. I'm going to break

14:18Esther Smith:this up. This is boring. No it's not.

14:20Pilot TV Hosts:Your entitlement I think is a fundamentally good talking point. Listen, Castle Boy, if you listen to Pilot Plus,

14:26Esther Smith:you'll know that James has recently been to a party in a castle.

14:28Pilot TV Hosts:We're going to get on to that because it's relevant to the listener question.

14:31Esther Smith:Anyway, I'm with you, Boyd. So, is that all you've been watching, my love? No, I'm finished.

14:35Pilot TV Hosts:No, keep going. Slow Horses. Okay, yes. If any of us, those of us have got it. How many of you have watched? This is the thing that obviously listeners hate, but we kind of have to. Some of them don't mind it. No, that's true. Some of them don't mind it. That is true. I think more of them don't mind it than do mind it. Yeah, well, we got a very exciting email last week from Apple basically saying that all six episodes of the new series of Slow Horses has dropped on the screening site. I haven't got it. For people who aren't deaf. You're my PA.

15:02Esther Smith:Yeah, I'm just going to remind everyone, I'm with you guys because I don't have it because these two, you know, hoity-toity pair, I've got it. I haven't got it. Monsters. We're special.

15:11Pilot TV Hosts:But yes, I did watch them all on the weekend and it was glorious. I knew you were going to watch them all. I've limited my... I watched the first one and I haven't watched the rest yet. Oh, but how did you even do that? Because there's World Cup games every day. And you're a dreamboat. That's why. Thanks. It was a truly magnificent six hours that was a delight. Now I'm going to have to... Anyway, all right. It's a play, but I'm going to mention it. I went to see a play last night. Russell T. Davis. Russell Tovey, not Russell T. Davis. Getting your Russells mixed up. Getting your Russells mixed up.

15:40Pilot TV Hosts:Because apparently I always say Russell T. Davis, according to Pilot Plus.

15:43Esther Smith:That was also on Pilot Plus.

15:44Pilot TV Hosts:Well, this is Russell T. Ovey. This is Russell T. Ovey, exactly. He is in a one-man show at the Donmar Warehouse called The Guilty, which was also a 2021 film starring Jake Gyllenhaal. Do you remember this? The whole thing is him on... He's a policeman on dealing with emergencies. In a call centre. Do you love a call centre? I love a call centre. You know I love a call centre. And this is a whole place set in a call centre where Russell Tovey is dealing with a horrendous call, which seems to me like a case of domestic abuse, etc. Oh, that's fantastic. And he is fantastic. I think it's possibly the greatest thing he's ever done that.

16:21Pilot TV Hosts:Really? Obviously, I am very friendly with him and everything. I'm not friends with him at all

16:25Esther Smith:and I still think he's fantastic.

16:27Pilot TV Hosts:It was so brilliant. So that I strongly recommend the guilty of Don Mar. And finally, let me ask you this question.

16:32Esther Smith:Oh, is it going to be when you do Who Wants a Millionaire question? Because I love it when you do this.

16:35Pilot TV Hosts:No, not really. But it's more of a what happened, what show arrived 25 years ago this Thursday? 25 years ago. So that would be what? 2001? Yeah. Thursday the 9th of July, 2001. 25 years ago. 2001.

16:56Esther Smith:Give us a genre.

16:57Pilot TV Hosts:It's too early. Comedy. A comedy?

17:00Esther Smith:25 years ago.

17:01Pilot TV Hosts:Was it The Office? It's The Office.

17:03Esther Smith:It's The Office. I was about Friends. Friends is much older than that. How old is Friends? That's 90s.

17:06Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah. 25 years ago. So I ritually, knowing this, and there's a Mackenzie Crook and Morgan, Morgan? Martin Freeman. Yeah. Morgan Freeman is a very different one. Morgan Freeman in The Office is I would watch. I'd love to see him talk about The Office. Yeah. The two of them have come together for a special show on BBC Two on the Wednesday, the 8th of July this week, talking about their time. And it's the first time they've seen each other for years. What? They've just not... Yeah, they've just... Busy? Had separate, you know, paths, I guess. So they just have not chatted or spoken, not for any, you know, reason of enmity or anything.

17:39Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah. So it's quite incredible. So those two come together for this special on BBC Two. And then I ritually, I thought, I'm just going to watch the first episode. Yeah, treat yourself. Treat myself. and it's just fucking incredibly good. It's so good. It's unreal. But yeah, so I think we should all watch the whole, maybe at least the first series of The Office.

17:59Esther Smith:Do you like The American Office?

18:00Pilot TV Hosts:I do like The American Office a lot. Yeah, I do too. I find that very comforting, The American Office,

18:05Esther Smith:because it's, right, it's less cringey in an American voice.

18:10Pilot TV Hosts:It is, yeah. Oh. I know.

18:12Esther Smith:I'm not used to you agreeing with me. No, I'm familiar.

18:15Pilot TV Hosts:It's tonally different. And also it evolves, doesn't it? when it kind of moves beyond the shackles of replicating the UK story, it becomes its own thing. Oh, it's fantastic, yeah. Yeah, and lots of people do use it as a comfort show. I have, 25 years on, still never watched The Office. What? I have seen several episodes because we did a comparison on this podcast. We did the first episode of the US and the UK and talked about the distinctions between them. But as you know, I can't deal with the comedy.

18:41Esther Smith:You have to watch The Office. You absolutely have to do it. That is absolutely... I mean you've never watched The Office

18:50Pilot TV Hosts:no I think I'm trying to think I think I've seen maybe three episodes of the UK Office and probably about the same of the US Office and that's it it's a storm machine

18:58Esther Smith:I don't have any words for that

19:00Pilot TV Hosts:no there are no words

19:01Esther Smith:no okay so anyway

19:03Pilot TV Hosts:yeah that is what I've been watching

19:05Esther Smith:okay wow

19:08Pilot TV Hosts:Steph Steph okay

19:09Esther Smith:sorry I was just really taking it

19:11Pilot TV Hosts:these are the shots you have to do every now and then the show comes up that he just has none watch

19:16Esther Smith:It's just, I mean, it's so much worse than Broadchurch, isn't it? Yeah. Okay. Right. So I have to admit that I thought we were doing a show that we're going to be doing next week. Can I say which the show is? Sure. I'll say which the show is. Okay. The Little House on the Prairie. I thought we were doing that, right? So I spent a lot of my time. Even though I made it clear that it was embargoed. Okay, right. And as I said, the word embargo gets bandied around all the time. And I'm never really quite sure.

19:43Pilot TV Hosts:Earlier on in this show, you had to go at me for not reading up in the WhatsApp group messages. Yes. This is a classic of you not reading up in the WhatsApp. Because I'm asked very early, by the way, in the week, to tell you what is and isn't in bargain, and then you just ignore it when I actually find out. It's quite... Anyway.

20:03Esther Smith:Anyway, so I've watched every single episode of Little Hearts on the Prairie. Wow. Shocker.

20:11Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, I've watched the first episode, but...

20:13Esther Smith:Or watched every single episode of that.

20:14Pilot TV Hosts:Is that our duty or desire that you needed to watch all of them?

20:19Esther Smith:I can't because we're going to do it next week and I feel like I can't reveal any of that. Yeah, that's true. Don't spoil it. You know what happens when I've watched all episodes or something. But the other thing I've watched which I'm so excited about, which you two will absolutely not care about at all, is the third season of America's Sweethearts, Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. Right? Now, I know what you're saying. No, no, no. No, no, no. It's a raised eyebrow there from James. Because these women are athletes and it's so amazing and what's brilliant about this show okay is from season one season two season three you're seeing the evolution of these female athletes and they're taking back power in last season it's a documentary series it's a documentary series and they have just become this absolute global sensation so much so that when they're when this season opens they've now got a stage show and these women are becoming you know massive influences in their own right and not in like a tacky shit way like in a you know they're doing good last season was all about them fighting for a you know a pay rise and they get like a 400 % pay rise it's a it's just a great story it's not a kind of run-of-the-mill reality documentary these women are athletes they're incredible dancers it's so it's just in terms of looking at the Dallas Cowboys as a business model and how they make their money it's fascinating and obviously the business model it's really it's really good it's really enjoyable um and it's kind of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders are run by these two amazing women who were themselves Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders.

21:48Esther Smith:And it isn't, I know reality is not your bag, but it's definitely worth a watch. It is, if you, like, just for the fact that these women are just, they're so inspiring. They all have, like, they're lawyers. They, you know, they've all got proper jobs as well as being these Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders. This is not a reality show per se. so I've been watching that and it's brilliant and I'm very happy it's back very happy and Little House on the Prairie

22:14Pilot TV Hosts:Little House on the Prairie all episodes

22:15Esther Smith:yes yeah James

22:18Pilot TV Hosts:you'll be shocked to hear I've not been watching that

22:20Esther Smith:I am shocked

22:21Pilot TV Hosts:you are shocked what have I been watching I mean mainly Slow Horses if I'm honest with you which I can't really talk about obviously the Bear finale did we talk about that last week? I don't think we did but we did on Pilot Plus do an entire spoiler deep dive into the final season of the Bear and the Bear finale so that's what we reviewed on Pilot Plus last week so yes that was something that I watched and I very much enjoyed it I thought it was great the other thing I've been pressing on was Spider Noir I got to the Nightmare on a Gurney episode and it is a good episode I think I've got one and a half episodes left to watch of Spider Noir

22:52Esther Smith:I've given up on Spider Noir

22:54Pilot TV Hosts:I'm still not feeling Alex's five star show there it's good but also that's Alex Godry from Empire yeah and he's great it's possible I'll never think about the show again once I finish watching it yeah

23:06Esther Smith:and I like things to have a bit of a lasting effect and I want this to be good. I wanted this to be better than it was.

23:13Pilot TV Hosts:It's fine.

23:13Esther Smith:It's fine.

23:14Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it's fine. And the other thing I'm doing, I have been immersing myself in the world of The Witcher. Of course you have. Wow. But, crucially, not a re-watch of The Witcher. Instead, I have been replaying the game The Witcher 3 on my PlayStation, which is set after the story of the books and, in fact, the TV series have finished.

23:32Esther Smith:What are PlayStation's up to now?

23:34Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, largely letting me play The Witcher 3.

23:36Esther Smith:But are they, what are they, like PlayStation 4, 5? 5. Oh, I see, yes, it's 5.

23:41Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah.

23:41Esther Smith:Okay. Not in general. What are PlayStation doing in their spare time? What have they been doing? Yeah.

23:45Pilot TV Hosts:Well, you know, hanging out, playing games largely. I mean, yeah. Okay.

23:49Esther Smith:So on your PS5? I've been playing The Witcher 3, yes.

23:52Pilot TV Hosts:Okay.

23:53Esther Smith:Is that a tappy-tappy game? Is it a joystick game?

23:55Pilot TV Hosts:Is it a tappy-tappy game?

23:57Esther Smith:You know. You know the ones where you have to go...

23:58Pilot TV Hosts:It's not some kind of dance simulator, no. Although, frankly, if they haven't made one of those yet, I strongly recommend a Witcher dance game.

24:06Esther Smith:You know what I mean? Or is it, you know, one of those ones?

24:09Pilot TV Hosts:I'm sorry, please explain. What are they called? You're gesticulating in a strange way.

24:13Esther Smith:You know the game?

24:14Pilot TV Hosts:A controller. Controller.

24:16Esther Smith:It's a controller game.

24:17Pilot TV Hosts:You do need to control the character, yes. Okay, fine. Telepathy having not yet been invented.

24:21Esther Smith:What do you... Well, you don't know. What do you do in this game?

24:25Pilot TV Hosts:It is a sprawling open-world fantasy RPG.

24:28Esther Smith:Well, that sounds nice.

24:29Pilot TV Hosts:No, it is. Yeah, it is. Headset? No, no headset. There's no one to talk to. It's single-player. Oh, I'd love to see you on a headset. No, I don't have a headset.

24:39Esther Smith:Oh, you definitely have a headset. No, I don't. I do not believe you.

24:41Pilot TV Hosts:No, I genuinely don't. You know I don't like to speak to other people if I can avoid it. That's true, you don't. What am I saying? So I definitely don't want to hear when I'm playing online games that most of the people I'm playing games with are like children. Yes, I don't want to know that. I like to assume that they are all my age and that's it. Okay, all right. But yeah, I've been playing The Witcher 3, which I have obviously played before since it's like an 11-year-old game.

25:02Esther Smith:When you sit down to start to play on your games console, Yes. How long do you go for?

25:07Pilot TV Hosts:With my clicky, tappy-tappy thing.

25:08Esther Smith:Yeah, with your tappy-tappy. How long do you go for? That would very much depend.

25:12Pilot TV Hosts:I ploughed a good number of hours into it over the weekend, I will say that.

25:16Esther Smith:In one sitting?

25:17Pilot TV Hosts:There was definitely at least one six-hour sitting, yes.

25:22Esther Smith:Six hours? Yeah. You could have watched Widow's Bay.

25:24Pilot TV Hosts:I could have done. And the thing was, I didn't even intend to do it. I just booted it up for whatever reason and then got sucked back into the world of the continent.

25:31Esther Smith:Okay, you need to make sure that you are using eyedrops. because that is a lot of screen time.

25:37Pilot TV Hosts:It was quite a lot.

25:38Esther Smith:Continuous for six hours. Do you have any breaks?

25:40Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, I blinked a few times. Does that count?

25:42Esther Smith:I mean, okay. All right, well, I'm glad you're happy. Well, thank you. That makes me happy.

25:46Pilot TV Hosts:I enjoyed it. So, yeah, that's why I've been watching slash playing this week.

25:50Esther Smith:Nice.

25:51Pilot TV Hosts:Should we have a listener question? Let's do it. Okay. This week's listener question comes from Mark. And Mark says, Greetings, pilot people. As I wait excitedly to board a plane from here in San Jose, California, to Utah, Amir, two and a half hours away, to live all things Yellowstone in the park and on a ranch, I wondered what location would you like to visit to indulge in that show's oeuvre? I mean, this is you two question. Okay.

26:15Esther Smith:I mean...

26:16Pilot TV Hosts:Well, I mean, both of us would like to go to Wyoming, wouldn't we?

26:19Esther Smith:I would absolutely love to do that. Yeah, wouldn't that be amazing? People keep sending me things of like how we can get to Dutton Ranch.

26:25Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, we get like a pilot holiday on the Dutton Ranch.

26:27Esther Smith:Somebody sent me something the other day, which is how you can have a Yellowstone holiday in the UK.

26:31Pilot TV Hosts:Yes, someone sent me that as well. Did they send you that as well?

26:33Esther Smith:Yeah, that was good.

26:34Pilot TV Hosts:I was tempted by that.

26:36Esther Smith:It looks really good, doesn't it? God, this connection we've got over it.

26:40Pilot TV Hosts:Is the actual Yellowstone National Park where Yellowstone is set? Because there is a Yellowstone National Park. Yeah, there's a part of it.

26:49Esther Smith:So if you watch Yellowstone, there's a part that's designated to the park, isn't there, in the show?

26:55Pilot TV Hosts:Because I've been to the park. I've been to Yellowstone.

26:56Esther Smith:Oh, have you? Yeah, yeah. Okay, well then why aren't you watching the show with us?

26:59Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, Boyd. It's too late, I just left it too late. Really? That's because the frontier's now largely gone. Yeah, that's true. I'm sure it has.

27:07Esther Smith:I think I'm banned from saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway. Cabot Cove. Cabot Cove, Maine is where I'd go as well. Murder, She Wrote.

27:14Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, of course so. Boyd's looking at me like... What's a Cabot Cove? Where is it? Is it in Maine?

27:20Esther Smith:Cabot Cove. I think the real one is not in there. I'm going to have to number crunch.

27:24Pilot TV Hosts:It's going to be like in Halifax or something, isn't it?

27:25Esther Smith:No. Cabot Cove real I'm sure Cabot Cove real is

27:36Esther Smith:Mendocino I hope I'm saying that right does that sound right Mendocino in California okay yeah okay well I'd go there

27:43Pilot TV Hosts:California being routinely mistaken for Maine yeah okay

27:47Esther Smith:yeah that's where I'd go oh hang on what's it code oh Perkins Cove yeah I'd go there just a cove any kind of cove and I'm there any cove you like

27:55Pilot TV Hosts:Isn't this just about Yellowstone locations, though? I don't think so. No. He's saying, like, where would you go? Where would you go? So, for example, were I to want to lord over people in a kind of upstairs-downstairs situation, I would go to Hampshire and hang out in Highclere Castle because, obviously, that is Downton Abbey. Oh, I see. Which is somewhere I have always wanted to visit and have yet to do so. Haven't you? No, I do need to go to Highclere Castle.

28:17Esther Smith:Hampshire is not that far.

28:18Pilot TV Hosts:I have visited Highclere Castle. Of course you have. I did. I think it might have been the maybe second or third season of Downton Abbey. I used to do the Richard Bacon show every week on Five Live, and I was the TV reviewer for like six, seven years. One week we did the whole show live from Highclay Castle as they were filming Downton. It was absolutely brilliant, I have to say. So you wandered it. We literally recorded half of it inside the massive room of the castle, and then we'd retreat to the general hanging out area, if you like, and then Hugh Bonneville would come over and have a chat.

28:52Pilot TV Hosts:It was fantastic. It was a brilliant, brilliant day. At Heighton Castle.

28:56Esther Smith:What went wrong that you're slumming it now with us?

28:58Pilot TV Hosts:Well, we should replace me with someone else. Scotty Bryan is fine. I'm not resentful at all. But yeah, no, it was really exciting.

29:07Esther Smith:Okay. But where would be your location to actually visit, if you could, from any TV show?

29:15Pilot TV Hosts:I kind of haven't really thought through it about it because I thought this was the truth for you two. So you just ignored it. You just skimmed the question, misunderstood it and moved on. But you must have more. You must have a whole list of them, surely. Well, I mean, obviously, I spent the weekend reliving my Wolf Hall fantasies because, yes, I stayed at Hever Castle on the weekend, which is where they've got Wolf Hall. One castle after another. Yes, which is former home, Van Berlin. Yeah. And, you know, every day.

29:38Esther Smith:In your bougie, your friend's bougie birthday.

29:40Pilot TV Hosts:Because my friend, yeah, my friend had a bougie birthday there and had hired out Hever Castle, so I got to hang out there after hours. We got a private tour. It was great.

29:47Esther Smith:Did you? Did you have an audio tour, which is my favourite type of tour?

29:50Pilot TV Hosts:No, we had a guide.

29:51Esther Smith:Oh, my gosh, you're so bougie.

29:53Pilot TV Hosts:because it was like a private tour it'd be a bit of shit private tour if they just packed us off with like a Waltman so there you go listen to this

29:58Esther Smith:just so I could do it on my own and just you know

30:01Pilot TV Hosts:void I've thought of an answer good I would go to the Hamptons oh yeah

30:07Esther Smith:well let me just tell you right why would you go to the Hamptons for what show

30:13Pilot TV Hosts:well I'm half first of all I need to cheat because I'm not supposed to mention Seinfeld but there's a hilarious episode of Seinfeld where they go to the Hamptons and George George and his late, his ex-partner who dies, right? Her parents, who are furious with him and blame him for her death, insist on taking him to, he lies to them saying he's got a place in the Hamptons and he hasn't got a place in the Hamptons at all and they go on this journey to this place that he hasn't got and it's like, how far will he go in lying to them? They're like, okay, George, and they know he's lying. It's just hilarious.

30:45Pilot TV Hosts:It's such a, but it is all about him having a fake place, not having a place in the Hamptons at all. But there are loads of those.

30:51Esther Smith:I can't believe you haven't been to the Hamptons.

30:53Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, I can't believe it either. I've been to kind of similar places. I've been to Nantucket, and in fact, we'll be covering Nantucket. There's a show called The Five Star Weekend coming up with Jennifer Garner that's set in Nantucket. Do you remember The Perfect Wife, was it called? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

31:06Esther Smith:Perfect Couple.

31:07Pilot TV Hosts:Perfect Couple. That was from the same author, and that was also set in Nantucket in a very similar kind of huge big house. So Nantucket is another one, but I have been there.

31:15Esther Smith:Okay.

31:16Pilot TV Hosts:So I didn't include that. But there must be loads of those shows.

31:19Esther Smith:One of my best trips ever, so my best friend lives in America, Nicole, she and I went to Montauk where the affair was filmed and we went to the restaurant and it was incredible. And we had like the cray fit. Oh my God, it was just, and they were filming the affair whilst we were there. And it was so exciting because I love, love, love that show. Did you like the affair?

31:44Pilot TV Hosts:I don't believe I've seen the affair. I think I might have watched the first one, but I don't think I've seen it. they're just showing it now aren't they on ITVX they yeah it's an incredible show

31:54Esther Smith:James can you please please watch the effect I have not Dominic West it's fine it's amazing it's absolutely fabulous do you think you'd like it

32:05Pilot TV Hosts:yeah I think so

32:06Esther Smith:yeah definitely you should watch that

32:08Pilot TV Hosts:it's on the sofa list if that's helpful at all yeah

32:10Esther Smith:okay can you please do that yeah so Montauk is amazing that's brilliant yeah

32:14Pilot TV Hosts:also that show Revenge was set in the house oh Revenge that's a great with Emily Van Camp. Yes. Yes. That show is, I see that one, I'm saying, that is deranged.

32:25Esther Smith:In the best way, though.

32:26Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, it's not good, but it's strangely compelling.

32:30Esther Smith:It's totally good. Is it? Yeah. Is it, though? Yeah. You and I are not vibing today. We've really got to get it back together

32:36Pilot TV Hosts:for our Dutton Ranch episode. And there was that show, Sirens, on Netflix, that was in the Hamptons as well. Because a lot of these, because there's the whole genre, I mean, as I say, we'll hopefully review the Five Star Weekend. coming up but that is the latest in this whole genre of rich privileged women gathering in huge big lush porno um property porn places like this let me tell you i went to sag harbour which is in

33:02Esther Smith:the hamptons and in my like you could smell the wealth like i've never everybody had like their their yachts it was just it was like it was like being on a film set where everyone was massively rich but it was actually these people's lives and i just and there was a reality wasn't there

33:20Pilot TV Hosts:about property on on that in the hamptons how difficult it is to buy anywhere well you can't

33:25Esther Smith:insure it because you can't get insurance so you have to be that rich that you don't mind if your house because it's very flat you can't get insurance you can't get house insurance on property in the hamptons because it's so close to seawater right and and it's very flat there so any damage that happens to it no you won't get insurance you just can't get insurance you have to be rich enough to be able to write it's on a flood plain

33:48Pilot TV Hosts:is what you're saying

33:48Esther Smith:you just can't you can't do it so you can get content insurance but not building insurance it's like you're asking me like you're thinking about buying a house in the Hamptons like let's be honest

33:58Pilot TV Hosts:I'm really upset the sales almost gone through I don't know what to do like you're saying I can't get insurance he's in escrow oh my god no I'm not buying a house in the Hamptons

34:05Esther Smith:no so well you can't and yeah you you can't get insurance so there you go

34:10Pilot TV Hosts:you could if you had the money but yeah

34:11Esther Smith:He doesn't have the money.

34:13Pilot TV Hosts:No, no. Nor do I. I think that's fair. Boyd, he can buy me one. I think that's, you know, accurate.

34:18Esther Smith:No one here is on Hamptons money, okay? No one.

34:22Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, God. How do we even get onto this? I don't... Oh, because we're locations. That's right. This is the question.

34:26Esther Smith:Right, so you've got Hamptons. I've got Cabot Cove.

34:30Pilot TV Hosts:Yes.

34:30Esther Smith:You've got... I can't even remember.

34:32Pilot TV Hosts:I was at Highclere Castle. Highclere Castle. But like Northern Ireland has all the Game of Thrones locations. Well, not all of them. You must have been to some of those, surely. No, no, no. I was invited on set of Game of Thrones, but it was when they weren't shooting. So it was like, you basically come on. No, so basically come and do a set visit, but we're not shooting at the moment. So it's like...

34:49Esther Smith:Come on and see nothing. I was like, um...

34:52Pilot TV Hosts:But apparently it was like to basically tour the sets and things like that. And so I probably should have gone, because in reality, I would have got to sit on the Iron Throne, that would have been fun. But I didn't actually do it, because I felt that would make for a challenging feature. Here we are on the set. There's no one about... I was talking to, I was talking to, you could have the local shopkeeper, you know, it could have been anything. Yeah, it would have been, it would have been a very, very weird set of visit. I'm wandering around, I'm the Todd, no one to talk to. It's so funny. When I was at Highclere Castle, here's the thing, we had a tour from the owner.

35:23Pilot TV Hosts:A private tour? A private tour from the owner. Lord Grantham. Of the actual real life owner. Oh, really? Okay. The actual real life owner. And he said, in all seriousness, it's so massive, he's talking about, there's literally hundreds of rooms in it and he pointed to the top of it and there's like loads and loads of floors etc he pointed it up and he said see that room there and we were like you know in between blah blah blah and we go yes he said I've never been in that room he's like I've owned this place for you know however long ten dozens and dozens of years it's been in the family for hundreds of years and I've just never been in that room why haven't you ever been there he said it's just one of these things I just haven't made it there yet I thought he was going to go until now So is that the only room he's not been in?

36:07Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah. So he must now deliberately avoid that room. Kind of, yeah. So that he can say that. Yeah, basically. Right. Seem to be the case, yeah. I was like, that's a great fact.

36:14Esther Smith:Can you imagine having a house that big that you've not been in some of the rooms? Exactly. That's wild.

36:21Pilot TV Hosts:None of you have mentioned the White Lotus, although, of course, I have stayed at the White Lotus. Of course you have. The Thai one.

36:28Esther Smith:That's what I was about to say. Well, I've been to Thailand.

36:29Pilot TV Hosts:You've also stayed at that hotel, haven't you?

36:31Esther Smith:No, I haven't. Which one is it? I think you have.

36:33Pilot TV Hosts:You have stayed at the... It's Nanantara one. Yeah, but it's the one, so they shoot across two. They're shooting the Koh Samui one and there's also the Phuket one. Okay, I stayed at both of those. Well, exactly, so you stayed at both of the, yeah.

36:44Esther Smith:I haven't watched White Lotus, remember?

36:46Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, well, you can tell you.

36:48Esther Smith:I'm being a James. That's worse than him in the office. That is not worse than the office. I think it's worse. You think me having not watched a recent show is worse than him not having watched an absolute comedy classic?

36:58Pilot TV Hosts:I think it's up there. I think it's on a par. Yeah, I do. We're breaking up friends, you and I. next year we're saying you haven't watched Succession you know where does this end oh god

37:08Esther Smith:or the West Wing

37:09Pilot TV Hosts:fucking oh my god Jesus Christ that's a whole thing we need to move on from this I'm going to honourable mentions I'm going to say the Wye Valley in Wales for sex education because Otis lives in Simons Yat which is a place and also while we're talking Valley Happy Valley have you ever either of you been to Calder Valley West

37:28Esther Smith:no but I love Wales and I love all the Welsh people

37:30Pilot TV Hosts:Halifax yeah no no no

37:32Esther Smith:God, we need to get out more.

37:33Pilot TV Hosts:We need to venture up north, I think, slightly more. All right, brilliant. A bit to Slough for the office. That's true. I think you're about to say Slough House. No, well. Which is by the Barbican, isn't it? So actually, we probably have them there. Yes, yes. Yeah. Okay, good. I'm glad we had this chat. That was the listener question. If you want your question answered on this podcast, then the email address is postbag at pilottvpod.com. Should we have this week's guest? Oh, please. I think we should. Okay. It is, in fact, time for Apple's comedy gem trying to return for its fifth season this week.

38:04Pilot TV Hosts:And to celebrate the fact, Esther Smith came on this very podcast to have a chat with Jordan King about the latest season and everything that it means for Nicky and Jason. So this is Esther Smith talking to Jordan. So it is my absolute pleasure to welcome back to the Pilot TV podcast, star and executive producer of Apple TV's Trying, Esther Smith. How are you today?

38:25Esther Smith:I'm really good. Thank you, Jordan. How are you?

38:27Pilot TV Hosts:I'm good. I'm good. congratulations on another just lovely warm hug of a season of this show it is the go-to comfort watch in my household how does it how does it feel to be back now with a fifth season it's almost unprecedented in the modern sort of tv landscape a fifth season and back as an ep this time too

38:45Esther Smith:yeah no it's i mean it's it's incredible really and i'm i'm so chuffed that we get to keep telling the story um initially I kind of assumed that we would be here for like three seasons because that seems to be the like a trend and and then yeah to be gifted a fourth and a fifth is is is amazing and I just think there's I think there's scope for for more just because you know it's just nice to look into this quite ordinary family ordinary people sorry and this family and seeing where they're at and where their lives are taking them because they're just fun people to spend time

39:29Pilot TV Hosts:with I think yeah absolutely and I mean this time around as well you're coming back into this you know you're an executive producer now on the show which is one major life event you're also coming back to this show now as a mother yourself which congratulations for that as well but how do you feel like in any way shape or form trying has kind of being a part of a show like this with such a big heart as did that help prepare you for what it would be like to be a mum as much as anything can ever prepare you for that particular madness yeah I mean that's exactly what

40:00Esther Smith:it is it is absolute madness and I don't think anything can prepare you I think what has been nice is that I feel like I've been around that question of what it means to be a parent and so I've had that luxury of playing a parent and then like dealing with certain subject matters that being a parent throws up so um in a way Andy who's the writer has given me a bit of a blueprint from his scripts in a way but um yeah I'm not sure anything truly prepares you for the

40:40Pilot TV Hosts:tiredness and the sleep deprivation as a as a father of two daughters under five I can

40:46Esther Smith:heavily relate to that particular struggle oh my gosh so you know I know I know but do you feel

40:54Pilot TV Hosts:like do you feel like the way that you look at Nikki's changed at all though now on the other side of all of this because obviously you sort of you know as actors do you were imagining something that you hadn't yet experienced for yourself but now you're you're going on to set and you're bringing with you almost necessarily you're bringing a big part of your own life with you yeah and your time is yeah it's a very realistic depiction of being absolutely knackered but yeah do you feel like nikki's changed a little bit now when we come back for season five

41:23Esther Smith:yeah I do I do and I think I think it's more in that because she's the parent of essentially two teenagers now I think there's with the kind of the parent storyline aside she's in a way being given the opportunity to reconnect with who she is and what she's about so she starts this new job as a manager in this very very trendy travel agency and is meeting people on the terms of not as a parent as as Nikki so that's kind of a nice opportunity for her just to yeah be Nikki not mom Nikki um so that so I think that that has changed yeah she's changed in that essence and also I just think we're constantly accruing information feels like daily like being a parent so inevitably you're kind of constantly evolving and growing so I feel like she's in itself is her toolbox is is is um a bit more packed now it's definitely a very Nikki to the um maybe naive Nikki from series one yeah definitely naïve but it is it is it's

42:54Pilot TV Hosts:really interesting that you mentioned that sort of reconnection element I mean I definitely have feel that as a parent now trying to sort of remember who am I amidst all of this craziness but I think it is it is interesting too because trying like you say it could have been a three seasons and done kind of thing like they could adopt Princess and Tyler and that would be a lovely end to the story. I feel like every season ends in a way that would satisfyingly be an end if it was. But it is interesting that now that you've gone beyond that, all of the characters of the show have become these so rich and lived in people.

43:26Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, I've just been rewatching the first series and Scott, when he's first introduced, is sort of the worst man in the world in many ways. And now I find myself in season five, literally crying at situations that he's in. But it is interesting this sort of the maturation of the series i think it's a testament to andy walton's writing so he obviously does this all by himself but also a testament to you guys as a cast something that i did think was really interesting though that i don't feel like i've seen very much of on screen or at least i can't think of is the approach that you guys take to blended families in season five and the idea of you know what is it like if you've built a family and then a biological parent comes back into the fray and i just wondered like what kind of conversations were you guys having with with Andy with Charlotte Riley who's brilliant as cat about how you were going to handle that kind of you know it's very sensitive subject matter and I feel like you deal

44:17Esther Smith:with it very sensitively yeah oh thank you for saying that yeah I think it's really important that that that it is a portrayal which is which is extremely looked after and thought about and in truth it to be honest it just all comes from Andy's writing and his brain and his words um I feel like also the you know having brilliant Charlotte Riley in it kind of and her sensitivity um coming into this story and the beautiful connection that she has that Kat has with Princess I think it's yeah I it's I think it's all from Andy um all of that work and I think just a collective want to tell the story truthfully with heart and with humor and being aware of what this what this actually story might mean to certain people and and also showing showing people who it doesn't necessarily directly affect what what that might look like and so I feel like there wasn't a lot of conversation around it I feel like it was just all an organic thing that we came to collectively because of Andy's script yeah and I think I think I suppose

45:48Pilot TV Hosts:as well that there's an element of everything in trying right from the very beginning it always you can feel that it's all approached without judgment and it's a show that's very much built with optimism baked into its DNA it struck me just while I was in the waiting room for this that this is sort of the original Apple TV therapeutic comedy like you guys were here right at the start you're five seasons in now but there is no shrinking and there is no Ted Lasso or any of those without what you guys sort of built the foundations for here do you think that's part of why we are still so invested in nikki and jason all these years later i wonder and it's also it's

46:27Esther Smith:so easy i'm glad you mentioned that because it's so easy to forget that actually because that the platform has grown so much and it's funny because i we went to the we were lucky enough to be invited to the the the big what's it called like the presentation day thing yeah in palo alto where the actual playground it's like it's like a playground um with all these incredible stars like hot like the cream of the crop of hollywoods and then and just walking around eating apple pie because they served us these amazing apple like mince pie things um and yeah it was very much in its infancy and that felt really special and I and I think because we had that and because we were one of their first quite early on I think it I think just like within it there's just like that special feeling of not I think not taking it for granted and also not taking the story for granted it still means so much even being five seasons on I personally never take for granted what this story means and what it means to people and it always hits me even talking about it impressing I find it quite emotional talking about it and I think that is a gorgeous mixture of what the story is the people collectively who are involved the audience's response to it that like the fandom that it's generated even if it's something that has been quietly there on the platform it's kind of yeah it's amazing that it's just kind of quietly there and people are getting to it and coming to it and can now binge five seasons of it yeah it is it's the heartbeat of

48:28Pilot TV Hosts:the platform for me it feels like it's set the standard for everything that's followed so yeah congratulations on a on a really lovely season five and here is hoping that season six will be on its way because i would keep watching these uh for many many years to come but yeah thank you so much for your time esther it's lovely speaking to you you too bye that was esther smith

48:48Esther Smith:let's talk news what have we got steph well there's been a real reverse ferret of news has there yeah Yeah, because Tom Hardy, Tom Hardy is back.

48:59Pilot TV Hosts:He's back in Mobland. I always thought this was... He sorted out his differences with the producers.

49:04Esther Smith:That's what it says.

49:05Pilot TV Hosts:Can we just say, he's back in Mobland, a show that, crucially, has not been officially renewed.

49:11Esther Smith:The headline that I've got is, Tom Hardy makes Mobland return after settling spat with producers. What do you know about this, Boyd? I feel like you know something.

49:20Pilot TV Hosts:Well, there was this whole... There was a lot of differing accounts of whether or not he was actually suspended from the show or sacked from the show or neither of those things. And then there was this whole saga about something to do with Helen Mirren.

49:35Esther Smith:Yeah, and it was all a bit political, didn't it?

49:38Pilot TV Hosts:And then I think she completely denied that she had any problem with him at all.

49:42Esther Smith:Yeah, she put out an Instagram post, I think, saying that she loves him and she always has.

49:46Pilot TV Hosts:Exactly. So I never quite thought, oh, they've got rid of him. So, you know, I think it's good to confirm the fact that he's something because he's obviously the best thing about it.

49:57Esther Smith:It just says it appears to be resolved. I really want to know what it was. What have they got? I would like to know.

50:03Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah. Maybe we'll never know.

50:05Esther Smith:Maybe we'll never know.

50:06Pilot TV Hosts:Maybe we'll never know.

50:07Esther Smith:Or maybe we'll know and we can never say. Perhaps. Okay.

50:10Pilot TV Hosts:We've had lots of other things happening this week. It's been quite a busy one. It's been a good week for Reacher heads. Oh yeah. Because not only do we have a Reacher date, the new season of Reacher is going to be landing on, this is season four, on Wednesday, August the 12th on Prime. But we have a new date, a new date, a date, September 16th, for Neegly, the spin-off series. And yes, I know they pronounce it Neely in the show, but that really annoys me because it has a G in it. The G is not silent, so I'm going to call it Neegly. But yes, that is the character of Neegly, and she's getting her own spin-off, and that lands in September.

50:42Pilot TV Hosts:So it's a double reach a year. When you say the G is not silent, when they themselves actually have it as silent, what do you mean you? I disagree.

50:52Esther Smith:Why do you disagree?

50:52Pilot TV Hosts:Because that's not how I read it, and it upsets me.

50:56Esther Smith:Okay.

50:57Pilot TV Hosts:Neely. Not neely.

50:58Esther Smith:That tells you everything about James that you need to know. It really does.

51:01Pilot TV Hosts:It sums it up.

51:01Esther Smith:Say you're a James without saying you're a James.

51:03Pilot TV Hosts:I reject the silent G.

51:05Esther Smith:Okay.

51:06Pilot TV Hosts:I'm going to show you both a photograph of this person. I'm going to ask you if you know who it is. Okay.

51:11Esther Smith:I'm loving this quiz element today.

51:13Pilot TV Hosts:Yes, that's Taylor Sheridan. Taylor Sheridan. Of course we know who Taylor Sheridan is. Don't you think Taylor Sheridan looks exactly as you'd want Taylor Sheridan to look? He's got a kind of like, he's looking angry in this photo, which is basically him doing a podcast, by the way. And this is a story that has just emerged this morning from him doing this podcast interview. And it's got a classic variety, you know, my classic variety headlines. Oh, yes, please do. So he is the classic variety headline of the week.

51:36Esther Smith:Oh, nice. What's it?

51:37Pilot TV Hosts:What's the headline? Taylor Sheridan rips studio execs for knowing nothing and slams his TV critics, colon, I do rage bait them, fuck them honestly.

51:47Esther Smith:Is this about Sons of Anarchy?

51:49Pilot TV Hosts:This is about all of his shows. And basically he talks about how he did it all himself. He refuses to take notes from executives. He doesn't respect any of the executives who can finance his shows. He just plows his own furrow, does what the fuck he wants, and leave him alone. And he will provide you with, as he has done, clearly, dozens and dozens of mega TV hits, including the ones that you two are obsessed with as we speak. He is a genius.

52:13Esther Smith:Let's use the word, he is. We're going to use that word.

52:15Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah.

52:15Esther Smith:He looks, he is, there is no better name for him than Taylor Sheridan, which sounds like a weird thing to say, but he looks like Taylor Sheridan.

52:23Pilot TV Hosts:He's called Taylor Sheridan and he makes shows the Taylor Sheridan you'd want him to make. He says, I knew when I started writing, I wanted to simply not do what everyone else was doing, he says. Everyone else was making shortcuts, breaking all the basic rules of storytelling because they couldn't figure out their story. He knew what he was fucking doing is basically his response. Yeah. And it's a very entertaining piece, and I will be listening to that podcast because it sounds very funny. Yeah, he's rather unfiltered. He is totally unfiltered. It's interesting. He can afford to be.

52:55Esther Smith:Literally afford to be.

52:57Pilot TV Hosts:When you run most of American television, as he does, his empire is now gigantic. He can say what the fuck he wants. Well, he bought the 460s ranch,

53:05Esther Smith:which was an extraordinary amount of money. The horses that they use, I mean, we'll get into this, but the horses they use on Yellowstone are his horses that he has trained, and he lends them. He lends himself.

53:16Pilot TV Hosts:That's a fact I didn't know.

53:17Esther Smith:Yeah.

53:18Pilot TV Hosts:But, so interesting thing is, like we talk about Taylor Sheridan, he famously was Deputy Hale in Sons of Anarchy. Yeah. And he was saying when he did season two of Sons of Anarchy, he was like, I just wasn't earning enough money to live. And he was like, I couldn't do it. But then he goes on to say, I was earning$15 ,000 an episode. You're like, so you kind of were earning enough money to live because that's actually, given that there's what, eight episodes in a season, like you've been doing alright right you're getting 15 grand an episode you're not doing too badly

53:46Esther Smith:I think he's got expensive taste

53:48Pilot TV Hosts:he's not on the breadline is what I'm saying but then horses expensive pets they are expensive but he was saying that he went to the producer and said I want more money and he wanted apparently he wanted 20 20 ,000 an episode and they said no they said 15 is where you're going to get and so he basically jatted it in he was like alright I'm done I mean to be fair I don't think he left in season 2 but he basically he then engineered his exit from the show and he was just like I'm done with acting because he's like I'm just not earning enough as an actor he said and all the power was with storytellers he said fuck it I will tell my own stories and now he's just like dominating the globe so it's worked out quite well Tick that off Yeah

54:21Esther Smith:You know what Dutton Ranch which has got a season 2 I know It's been renewed It's been renewed but they Chad Fian is the showrunner and he's leaving He's leaving We're getting a new one Do you know who we're getting?

54:33Pilot TV Hosts:Who are we getting? Teddy Sheridan

54:35Esther Smith:No Oh no Teddy Sheridan's not involved He's not involved in Dutton Ranch No he's not involved Benjamin Cavill and he has His writing and producing credits include Justified, Yes Please, Homeland, Yes Please, Sneaky Pete, Yes Please, and Godfather of Harlem. So this is going to be great.

54:52Pilot TV Hosts:This bodes well.

54:53Esther Smith:It does really bode well.

54:55Pilot TV Hosts:It's a good bode.

54:56Esther Smith:It's a good bode.

54:58Pilot TV Hosts:So yes, more Dutton Ranch on the way. Very exciting. Did you see Department Q Season 2 has begun production? Yeah. So it's still a ways off. I'm not going to get to see anything. I thought that was surprising. I assumed it started coming ages ago. I thought it had been shot. I was waiting for it to arrive but apparently they literally haven't made it yeah I was surprised by that I have to say but fair enough I guess if it takes a long time to write it doesn't shit it okay they managed to put out like 18 episodes of Slow Horses every five minutes you know what I mean steady don't you have a go I mean it's not 18 it's 6 and it's once a year now but the whole yeah but they still they do that thing where they work on three seasons of Slow Horses at any given time so they are either they'll be like editing one and then shooting one and then writing one which is deranged.

55:42Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, that's true. That is deranged. And presumably the reason why Will Smith is no longer the showrunner because, you know, what has gone a whole day? Yeah, Will Smith the... Not that Will Smith. No, not the slapper person. Not the slapper.

55:55Esther Smith:You know, the person who slapped Chris Rock, not that person.

55:58Pilot TV Hosts:This is a big political story, but I'm going to mention it anyway. Oh God.

56:01Esther Smith:He'll cut it out if he doesn't want to.

56:02Pilot TV Hosts:No, no, I don't mean... No, you won't have to cut it out, but the British government is apparently going to intervene in the paramount proposed 110 billion takeover of Warner Brothers Discovery. What's it got to do with the British government? Why has it got to do with them? Because they have outlets in British, you know.

56:18Esther Smith:But don't they have other stuff to do?

56:20Pilot TV Hosts:Or the government?

56:21Esther Smith:Yes.

56:22Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, but, you know, the Minister for the Arts, I believe it was, Lisa Nandy. Okay. She is the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. She said in a written statement to Parliament on Thursday, following an engagement with the parties and independent research in my department today, written to the current and proposed owners of Warner Brothers Discovery on my behalf to inform them I am minded to intervene.

56:42Esther Smith:I am minded. Yes, she's minded.

56:44Pilot TV Hosts:I'm sure they're going to pay an awful lot of attention to that. That's good, I'm sure. Sure. Lisa Nandy's views will be absolutely taken on board. We can't do this, guys.

56:52Esther Smith:Lisa's been on the phone. Lisa Nandy's just called.

56:54Pilot TV Hosts:I'm so sorry. It's not going ahead now. Wow. Yeah. God. Poor Nandy. Getting both barrels from you two. She's trying her best to, you know. I think it's interesting because that deal is still, still yet to be finally, you know, sorted down.

57:09Esther Smith:I don't think it's going to be crushed by Lisa. Do you know what I mean? I don't. You've made that quite clear.

57:14Pilot TV Hosts:Your analysis of this news story have made that quite apparent. You may not be wrong. I'm pleased. I'm pleased. I'm encouraged that she's doing it because someone's got to fucking intervene because it's an absolute nightmare.

57:28Esther Smith:Okay, just don't get upset. She doesn't prevail.

57:32Pilot TV Hosts:Look, I enjoy David and Goliath's story as much as the next person, but this is very much like the little chihuahua barking at the 747.

57:40Esther Smith:Yes, I agree.

57:42Pilot TV Hosts:Anything else?

57:43Esther Smith:No, I have nothing else. No, we have nothing else, Boyd.

57:45Pilot TV Hosts:Do you have anything else? No. Good, then we can move on from news this week, I think, and move on to this week's reviews. Now, I should probably caveat reviews by saying this is maybe not the creme de la creme of television entertainment this week. Offerings were slim, slim pickings, I think it's fairly safe to say. You know, it's a difficult combination of embargoes and the aforementioned World Cup. That's meant that we struggled a little bit this week to find some shows.

58:09Esther Smith:I had a great time. I watched Little House on the Broward.

58:11Pilot TV Hosts:Which we can't talk about. So, yeah, so just with that caveat out there, bear with us. Okay, so first up, we have The Dark on ITV, which is an adaptation of the novel from The Shadows by G.R. Halliday, which is the first of his D.I. Monica Kennedy series. And this takes us up to Inverness for a ritualistic murder. Yeah, and who better tell us about this than our own ritualistic murder expert, Steph?

58:40Esther Smith:Well, I thought you two were going to be really upset about this because one of the opening scenes is the body in the open and I know you don't like bodies.

58:47Pilot TV Hosts:Well, yes, but actually, I was like, big thumbs up because it was a naked bloke. Yes, and I thought, oh. Yeah, it's all about naked women.

58:53Esther Smith:Okay, I was like, oh, they'll be okay with this because it's a man. No, I'm absolutely fine with it

58:56Pilot TV Hosts:because I get so bored of that trope of just like murdered women all the time and it's just, we're so actually murdered men. Yeah, all right, carry on. Well, since you've mentioned it, I should, because I've just been working on this and in the press pack for the show, they interview the director and she says, the writer, sorry, and she says that was an absolute deliberate thing. She was sick and tired of having women, naked women, corpses in shows.

59:21Esther Smith:Oh, really? Yeah, they're very much specified.

59:23Pilot TV Hosts:Part of her being interested in it was the fact that it was men, male men, who were the victims in this show. Male men, not to be... Male men, yeah, not male men.

59:33Esther Smith:Okay. Oh, okay, that's really interesting. Okay, so we open, this is set in Scotland, you know. You know my heart sort of belongs to Wales at the moment with regional crime dramas. But yeah, I'm really enjoying the rugged Scottish landscape of this. So we're introduced to the detective and she is obviously brilliant. She's got a new partner who is an idiot. Yeah, he is an idiot and they are sent to see. She's got a young child. You immediately know there's a backstory there. there's a mystery I'm not going to spoil this for anyone but this all sort of happens in the first five minutes she's in a cinema a woman comes to talk to her you're unsure if you've read the books you'll know but she's unsure Have you read the books?

1:00:18Esther Smith:No, I haven't read the books no She's unsure Well, if you've read the books you'll know I did do it like that Yeah, you did You really implied that you have read the books If you've read the books you'll know Have you read the books? Yeah, I've read the books Of course I've read the books

1:00:32Pilot TV Hosts:Just edit in that light

1:00:33Esther Smith:Of course I've read the books I haven't read the books. But, yeah, as you know, I told you this before, I don't really like crime fiction. I love, like, crime fact. Yeah, I love, like, true crime. Anyway, that's an... Carry on. Anyway, okay, so we're introduced to the detective. There's a sinister female figure who is something from her past, so all, you know, great, great, great. And then they, with this new partner she gets, they happen upon, they don't happen upon, they've been investigating this body in the field, which is yeah they're not out for a hike that's absolutely not what happens they do not go on a hike and happen upon a naked man do not listen to me what am I talking about okay and they need to find out why this man is but obviously because the detective knows the area she lives in the area she quickly knows who it is I don't want to give too much away because you're introduced to Helen Baxendale she's in it who I was very pleased to see wielding a gun Wielding a gun.

1:01:34Esther Smith:What a sight. But again, it's a bit of a spoiler. It wasn't like that in Cold Feet, was it? It wasn't like that in Cold Feet. Do you know, yeah, she's great though. She is really good in this. And the absolute MVP of this whole thing is an amazing Irish wolfhound. Yes. Oh my God, the Irish wolfhound. Very good. And the dogs are a theme, okay, in this. So I'm not just saying it just because I love dogs. You're also introduced to a young man who gets a mysterious phone and is getting messages potentially from his mum. um again i don't want to spoil this just tell me if you think i'm going too far do you think i'm going too far james i don't know i think you're okay okay right what i would say about this right for me i for the first kind of 30 minutes i thought oh god this is a bit clumsy and predictable it feels a bit pedestrian i'm not really into it and then the last 10 minutes something happens which i'm not going to give away that absolutely ramps this up to a really exciting drama and something completely different but I can't give away what it is the whole first episode there's so many mysterious things going on you kind of can't really it's quite hard to figure like how does she know him and who's that and who's that other woman there's a lot of plots set in motion in this first episode which is quite hard to kind of get to grips with I found anyway but by the last 10 minutes I was really hooked and I thought it was good it's not absolutely amazing you know it's not it's not Apple TV crime drama or anything but for an ITV I thought this was good and it had something a little bit different for me

1:03:06Pilot TV Hosts:for an ITV

1:03:07Esther Smith:well I'm saying it for him hey I didn't say anything

1:03:10Pilot TV Hosts:yeah he didn't say anything

1:03:11Esther Smith:but it does have a whiff of ITV about it doesn't it it's even worse it's soaked in ITV

1:03:18Pilot TV Hosts:yeah

1:03:20Esther Smith:I love ITV by the way

1:03:22Pilot TV Hosts:I think it makes excellent usage though we should say visually of the Scottish Highland where they happen

1:03:29Esther Smith:upon the body where they happen

1:03:30Pilot TV Hosts:Well, some has happened upon the body, though. Yes, they do. To be fair, it's just not the characters you said. They're brought in. They're specifically brought in by those who happened upon the body. It's an appointment viewing. It's an appointment viewing of the body. And I thought that, yeah, that's quite spectacular. The bleak, kind of grey, cold, rocky backdrop of the Highlands, or whatever the hell it is, was really well done. Like, really, really impressive. And I think that she is great. Laura Donnelly. Who was leading the Nevers? Do you remember the Nevers? Joss Whedon's The Nevers? Exactly, yeah.

1:04:04Pilot TV Hosts:I think it's, by the way, I think kudos to ITV because she's not that well known, I think, here. Maybe she's done a bit of stuff in the mirror. The Nevers was obviously banished to the universe. Yeah, that was unfortunate. I hadn't seen her at all. That was unfortunate, yeah. So they've cast someone relatively, not unknown, but relatively unknown in comparison, in this big, chunky lead role. And she's really good, I think. She's quite kind of cold and enigmatic in a way, you know, in her day-to-day. Much like yourself, Boyd. Absolutely. And I think she does that really well. The way she treats her new police partner, who is, as you say, what did you describe him as an idiot?

1:04:41Pilot TV Hosts:He's an idiot. He's an idiot. All these words.

1:04:45Esther Smith:Do you know there's a scene where they're driving back, and this is one of the scenes where I thought, oh, I don't know if I can continue watching this. And for some reason, the writers have decided that she needs to divulge everything that's happened to her, to him in this one cartoon. And she just gives him her whole backstory and her whole history and it just was really, I thought it was really clunky. I didn't like that. But anyway, sorry, carry on.

1:05:05Pilot TV Hosts:Okay. But she's really good.

1:05:08Esther Smith:Yeah, she is good.

1:05:10Pilot TV Hosts:But I agree with you. I was interested, I think there's enough interesting stuff going on because you've got this mysterious woman who pops up in the cinema on the very first scene who's got some backstory with Laura Donnelly's character. You've got this whole other situation going on with Helen Baxter and her husband, Emma and Elliot, who are the parents. And you've got the actual murder itself, the key, the naked men thing. And I think that is really key, that they are men. All the men in this show, spoiler alert, are the victims. And you're tracing another storyline, another set of characters.

1:05:48Pilot TV Hosts:The guy who works in the pub restaurant and his dad who seems quite grumpy. And you've got the dog, as I was actually saying.

1:05:55Esther Smith:The dog is so great.

1:05:56Pilot TV Hosts:Dog is great. And then you've got this absolute nightmare of a finale of the first episode, which really seals the deal. It does. And I think that, because that turns it from fairly, you know, pedestrian drama. I wouldn't say pedestrians are big. It's by the numbers. Nothing feels surprising. Sure. It feels very familiar. Yeah, maybe apart from the male bodies thing, that's an interesting, that's a departure. Oh, I applaud that. But then, in that final five minutes, and the final shot itself, you're like, oh, hold on. This is quite scary, creepy, properly creepy, like almost rural horror kind of thing.

1:06:36Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it has a touch of the folk horror. Yeah, it really does. And then I started watching the second episode and they ratchet that up more and more as it goes on. So it is kind of folk horror meets Detective John. I think it works quite well. So I think there's enough going on in that, whether you think it's progesterone or a bit slow or deliberately paced, as we say. I think it all builds up so well to that final moment, which is horrific. And I thought they pulled that off really well. Because that could have been cheesy and a bit, you know, try hard, but it really works. But it's scary. It's scary.

1:07:09Pilot TV Hosts:It's horrible. So I think that's what makes it a cut above, I think, in the end.

1:07:15Esther Smith:James, ready for you to rip into it, please? No, no, no, it was fine. Oh!

1:07:19Pilot TV Hosts:That's my whole review.

1:07:20Esther Smith:It was just fine.

1:07:21Pilot TV Hosts:No, I liked it. As you say, when it starts off, it's quite dour and a bit boring. No, it is.

1:07:28Esther Smith:If you liked it, it was dour and a bit boring.

1:07:30Pilot TV Hosts:It took me a little while to work out whether or not we had sort of parallel chronologies. Do you know what I mean? Because obviously you see a character who is clearly being groomed by the killer. And I'm like, is that the naked buns out bloke from the beginning of the episode? Are we seeing how he got killed? I don't know. I didn't seem to think that at all. No, obviously he's, you know, the next victim. But I was trying to work out. He's misunderstood the narrative. It's very common. Fucking, you know, Yellowstone does this all the time, where you jump to a different chronology, but you don't signpost it in any way.

1:08:06Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah. And that can be really, I mean, Department Q is a really good example of how that's deployed, and, you know, it's a great sort of twisty effect. But that's what I thought was being done here. And then I was like, oh, no, no, you're the next victim.

1:08:17Esther Smith:I didn't get that at all. All right, so clearly I'm an idiot.

1:08:19Pilot TV Hosts:But anyway, I misunderstood the answer for a while. And then eventually I figured it out. Is it because he's using an old school mobile phone? Did you think that it was that? So, this is interesting. Initially, I was like, when is this set? Because it's got that slightly, almost like 70s lighting thing.

1:08:35Esther Smith:Oh, no, it's a burner.

1:08:36Pilot TV Hosts:No, I know that. It's like an old Nokia, isn't it? But initially I was like, oh, like... I'm just trying to give an excuse for his stupidity.

1:08:41Esther Smith:Oh, you're trying to help him out and he's rejecting it.

1:08:43Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, it wouldn't have been... Bearing in mind that they found his body on the moor the day before, He wouldn't have been killed in the 1970s. Maybe there's a whole time travel element to it. Do we get to make it clear? I didn't think that, but I wondered whether it was like, it was basically, I'd missed a thing that said like three days earlier or something like that. I don't know. But anyway, so we've established I didn't really understand it. And I thought it was fine. Brilliant. Yeah. Great. Will you carry on watching it? Absolutely not. I was in the dark. No, I will not be continuing watching it.

1:09:14Pilot TV Hosts:But I think it was decent. Definitely. I really want to know what it is

1:09:17Esther Smith:because that really got me hooked.

1:09:19Pilot TV Hosts:Because there's a religious cult thing going on which you didn't mention as well. Yes, that is true. And they mentioned at the beginning there's been this sort of cult thing.

1:09:24Esther Smith:Oh, yes, it's the old case, isn't it? Yeah, there's an old case involving a cult.

1:09:27Pilot TV Hosts:There's a lot going on. Yeah, it's interesting. But then part of me is just like, this is interesting, but Under Saltmarsh is still on my sofa list. So I feel like that's definitely one to prioritise.

1:09:36Esther Smith:James, you're absolutely right. That is the benchmark for crime dramas.

1:09:40Pilot TV Hosts:Just because it's got a modern name in it.

1:09:42Esther Smith:No, because I loved it before. I loved you. I said Kelly Riley. Kelly Riley. my best friend.

1:09:46Pilot TV Hosts:It freaks me out when she speaks with a Ratchell accent. I know, it's weird. I don't like it.

1:09:51Esther Smith:Yeah, Undersault Marshall was absolutely, that'll probably be on all of our, will it for you? Maybe not. Was it this year? Was it not? I think it was this year.

1:09:59Pilot TV Hosts:Was it this year? I think so. But that's a good question. Yeah, we need to go back and look. I have no idea if it was this year. Let's not do a live ponder. Was it this year? It might have been this year. I'm not sure. Anyway, anyway, The Dark Then, which airs on every iteration of ITV, ITVX,

1:10:16Pilot TV Hosts:It's on ITV1. And ITVX. Yeah, but everything on ITV1 is automatically on ITVX. It doesn't mean anything. Oh, God. Show me the lie. It's like saying everyone on BBC, and it's on BBC iPlayer. It is. Anyway, all you need to know is it's on ITV1 this Sunday, the 12th of July at 9pm, and carries on on Monday. Ooh, okay. It's on Sunday, Monday for the next three weeks. Fabuloso. Six episodes in all. And I can confirm, by the way, at the same time, because I'm multitasking here, that Undersault Marsh was indeed this year.

1:10:48Esther Smith:Oh, gosh, you're doing some great number-frenching today. Come on.

1:10:51Pilot TV Hosts:That's very helpful. That's another one I've got to watch before we do the show. January of the show. What? You've watched Undersault Marsh? Were you not here for the conversation where I just said, I can't watch this because I have yet to finish Undersault Marsh? Honestly, it doesn't do anything I say. Our second show this week, and this is going to be a completely seamless transition because you would never know that we've literally just evacuated the building because of a fire alarm test. and then went and got lunch. And by lunch, I mean Bimboidy went to Itzu and Steph bought Looks at Desk family packets of Maltesers, Haribo, Minstrels and is there a fourth one?

1:11:26Esther Smith:Werther's Originals.

1:11:27Pilot TV Hosts:Werther's Originals. And this is, and I am not joking, Steph's Lunch. Steph, hold up the lunch. Hold up for the camera. Go on, show them. Show them your lunch. This is Steph's lunch. This is Steph's actual work lunch. Hold it up. Go on. Own it. Yeah, there we go. There we go. All the major food groups there represented and by that I mean Werther's Originals Haribo, Maltesers and Minstrels so yeah nice good I can't believe I've been

1:11:50Esther Smith:publicly shamed you've been publicly shamed

1:11:52Pilot TV Hosts:for your lunch I'm staging an intervention anyway anyway on the subject of Human Vapor we are now turning to our next show which is Human Vapor on Netflix which is a TV reboot of the 1960 sci-fi horror of the same name which you may or may not know it's from Godzilla creator Ishiro Honda and this sees a criminal who can turn himself to fumes and he commits crimes on national television. So Boydie, tell us, is this a gas or a load of hot air? Well, this begins with a very entertaining and kind of shocking sequence in which a top kind of old bald guy scientist, well, you know, you say it as you say it, has been interviewed by a famous reporter, Kyoko Kono.

1:12:46Pilot TV Hosts:They're having a chat and then you see some kind of gaseous, indeed, vapor entering the TV studio where this is going out, being broadcast live. And within seconds, this isn't, by the way, this is the setup of the show. I'm just just making the setup before people will accuse me of spoiling things like they always do. Within seconds, he kind of shoots up into the air. He levitates. He levitates, kind of towards the ceiling, hits the ceiling and then explodes all over. Poor Kiyoko. And the rest of the crew are filming him and there's blood splattered everywhere. And then at the same time we meet this cop who is having a nice lunch in his local noodle bar or whatever and he encounters a young immigrant worker who's being abused by his boss and he kind of intervenes in that situation.

1:13:41Pilot TV Hosts:That's how we're introduced to him. And then the cop goes to investigate the exploding man. The reporter is also investigating the exploding man because she was right in the middle of him exploding all over her. And together they then form the plot of the whole thing, which is that they are investigating the exploding man and the very disappearance of this gaseous matter which arrives in some kind of box sent to a specific guy and he doesn't understand what's happening either. it's very entertaining I think the characters are immediately fun and we're kind of drawn to them and the cop's kind of very effectively played by Shun Oguri who is a model apparently I was reading in Japan and this is his first acting job

1:14:24Esther Smith:the cop guy is? oh he is handsome yeah he's really good

1:14:29Pilot TV Hosts:and it's fun all I want to say is it is shot in a in a quite cinematic way. And it feels like it's quite a, you know, deluxe piece of TV making. Except for the CGI. Some of the CGI effects are quite bad, I thought. Compositing, was it, Boydie? I don't know whether it's the compositing or the LED volume or whatever. But the gas itself, first of all, in that opening scene that I'm describing, is kind of a bit cheesy. Unconvinced by the gas. Cheesy gas.

1:15:00Esther Smith:Cheesy gas. I don't know whether I thought that.

1:15:02Pilot TV Hosts:And then when he starts levitating, But the explosion was quite well done. That was fine. But, yeah, there was definitely moments of it that I felt were dubious. Now, I'm no expert, unlike James, so we'll find out his verdict in a second. But that did stand out to me. Because, obviously, the whole thing's reliant on the special effect of this fucking human fate. See, I thought you were going to take issue with the tailoring of the antagonist's suit. No. He had an ill-fitting, deliberately ill-fitting, tailored suit. Yeah, it was deliberate. An oversized suit. oh yeah sure that was a little bit I mean yeah you could take you could take issue with that but no I thought the effects every now and then weren't great but then you know then when you read it's a remake of the thing made by the Godzilla guy you can feel in a way it's part of the whole fun that it doesn't have to be

1:15:48Esther Smith:it is fun

1:15:49Pilot TV Hosts:yeah but it is I had a good time it's very fast moving and obviously the only reason we're reviewing it is because there's nothing else to review this week we have to be brutally honest about it but in the end I was enjoying the fact that we are reviewing it and I would never have watched it probably.

1:16:05Esther Smith:No.

1:16:05Pilot TV Hosts:Because I don't know anything about the original. No, I don't either. But it was, yeah, it was a whole lot of fun.

1:16:11Esther Smith:I think this had layers. I was, you know, considering it's vapour, it had a lot of layers. Layered vapour? Yeah. The last time I saw anyone explode this well was Bella Hadid in the beauty. Wouldn't you agree? When she exploded in the beauty, it was a great explosion. And this was also a great explosion. I've got to give credit to the opening credits of this show because I thought they were particularly well done.

1:16:37Pilot TV Hosts:Oh yeah, the credits are nice.

1:16:38Esther Smith:Yeah, really, really nice. Yeah, the cop, so you're introduced to the cop who we now know is a model who it's unclear, and again, I don't know the film at all. It's unclear why he's been suspended and he gets reinstated within the first kind of five minutes of this show. And then what I also really enjoyed was there's flashbacks and it becomes clear that there is some kind of romantic entanglement between Kyoko and the cop guy, whose name I can't recall at the moment. Model man. Model man. Let's call him model man. And I like that whole little dynamic that you know is going to play out. Frisant.

1:17:17Esther Smith:Yeah, I kind of liked the reminiscing scenes and I think it's a good mystery and I actually, because I don't know anything about it, when it gets to the kind of end of the first episode and it's not a spoiler because we already know this man is human vapour. I was like, oh, it's a superhero thing. He's human. Like, he's a villain. He's like, he's vapour. He's like human vapour. And then I liked it even more. But yeah, I would never have watched this because as you know, I'm not a big fan of shows you can read. I'm not a big fan of shows you have to read. But, yeah, it was good.

1:17:50Pilot TV Hosts:Can I just correct myself? Please. It's actually the human vapour himself who is the model who's never acted before.

1:17:57Esther Smith:Oh, the cop seemed to be an elderly to be the model. Oh, okay. I was going to say. Sorry. Because I can see that.

1:18:02Pilot TV Hosts:Yes. He's a guy called Uta.

1:18:05Esther Smith:Okay. Right.

1:18:07Pilot TV Hosts:Funny enough, the guy playing the detective, who's made over a hundred different films and TV shows, and is one of the most experienced and prolific actors in all of Japan.

1:18:18Esther Smith:This is my favourite mistake that you have ever made.

1:18:21Pilot TV Hosts:This is what the readers pay for. The listeners pay for. As I said, I was thinking, maybe I've got that the wrong way around.

1:18:27Esther Smith:Yeah, I didn't think he was a bit elderly to be, you know, to be really kind of stomping the catwalk. But yeah, it's kind of got a ring vibe to it, you know, the ring. There's a little bit, you know, with the whole, the video, because the human vapour guy's on the video and giving a warning that people are going to get murdered. I think, yeah, once you're in it, it's good. Is it? Oh, no. I mean, it's okay.

1:18:51Pilot TV Hosts:Come on. It's okay.

1:18:53Esther Smith:Okay, sorry, I'm going to downgrade good. Yeah. In the second mistake from this review, I'm going to tell them very good. It's okay.

1:19:01Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, I didn't feel it offered a great deal. Because I think on the one hand, it's a bit silly. I don't mind silly. It's a bit silly. And it's quite heightened in the way that it's acted. The acting is a little bit sort of like on point. It's very heightened. And also, the story didn't really grip me either. I was a bit like, yeah, okay, Vapor Man, you're going to turn out, you're going to do an interview, and you're blowing people up, and you think that speaking incredibly slowly and opaquely makes you mysterious and scary. It just doesn't make for good television.

1:19:37Esther Smith:Oh, I thought he was quite scary.

1:19:38Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, was he? I mean, the fit of his suit was quite terrifying. Don't you want to know?

1:19:44Esther Smith:Don't you want to know? I mean, because obviously he says the thing of like, oh, you know, this scientist did something wrong, and it reeks of there being people experimented or something. Of course, that's going to be...

1:19:52Pilot TV Hosts:Because that's never been done before. Okay, well, X-Men, yeah.

1:19:54Esther Smith:obviously but I just feel like

1:19:57Pilot TV Hosts:X-Men were children of the atoms yeah oh sorry

1:19:59Esther Smith:but you know what I mean that kind of vibe of like people who you know have special powers because of yeah yeah it's not good is it

1:20:08Pilot TV Hosts:I just like it was okay and it might get more interesting because I accidentally watched the beginning of episode 2 and it's somewhat mad how did you accidentally watch it I forgot to turn it off when the first one finished Ninja and also played the second one but I was just like this is not gripping me and like super villains yes on board for that, people turning into vapor and murderizing people, theoretically on board. It's not very propulsive.

1:20:30Esther Smith:I think it is so propulsive. Really? Yeah, I thought it was propulsive. Oh, it's propulsive. It's just a little bit silly.

1:20:35Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, I agree with you on the silly thing, but I think that was almost part of the whole tone of it and the over-the-top acting, etc. But I thought it was propulsive. I thought it was one of the good characteristics. Well, it propelled me to go and watch something else. Oh, okay. Wow. I think it does. I accidentally you watched a bit more of it as well. Because this is accidental watching happening. Because it does autoplay. Because of Netflix. And unless you literally grab your remote, you're like, it's an autoplay. Oh, do you know what I really hate

1:21:00Esther Smith:about Netflix, right? When it's so judgy, like you've been watching too much television, it goes, are you sure you still want to stay on this? Or are you going to turn off? And it's so judgy, it's like you've been watching too much television. Of course,

1:21:11Pilot TV Hosts:if you want to watch the credits as well, you're absolutely effed. No, it's like, no, no, moving on to the next. I want to know who the third gathers assistant was. That's right. I was confused about who was the model and who was the actor. Anyway, I did also accidentally watch a bit more and there's some influencer characters that come in so it makes it more suddenly up to date and kind of knowing and a bit meta it gets a bit as it goes on which is interesting and a bit more propulsive. Yeah. So yeah. People may well like this maybe it'll be a massive sleeper hit but I just, I don't know.

1:21:42Esther Smith:I could see there being a little bit of a cult following of this. I could feel people be, yeah, I can think people are going to get behind it.

1:21:48Pilot TV Hosts:Well, it's a Toho Studios thing, and obviously they have a large fan base. Well, there you go. Yeah. Okay, well, anyway, that's Human Vapor, Should You Feel So Inclined, and that is available on the Netflix now. Oh, yes. Yeah. Finally this week, finally this week, oh, we have X-Men 97 Season 2, which is, yes, you're right, a cartoon. But despite that, we have put our long-standing antipathy towards all animation, our animation bias, if you will, on hold, to see if 90s throwback animation is something that we can get on board with, especially because it has Marvel superheroes in it.

1:22:22Esther Smith:I have absolutely... Hold on. Don't start grouping me in with you two. I love animation. I have nothing against animation at all. What's your favourite animation, Steph?

1:22:30Pilot TV Hosts:Cities of Gold. Which what?

1:22:33Esther Smith:Cities... Ah, Cities of Gold.

1:22:34Pilot TV Hosts:Someday we will find the Cities of Gold. Yeah. I mean, when I said animation, I thought you might go with something kind of highbrow and adult, but you know you've gone straight for the kids' cartoons.

1:22:42Esther Smith:Okay, of recent times, Flow. I loved Flow.

1:22:45Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, Flow's very good. Oh, thank you. I thought you were about to go back and double down and say, yeah, Bluey. I'd say Bluey is probably my favourite animation.

1:22:53Esther Smith:Don't fucking come for Bluey, James. By all accounts, Bluey is like the gold standard of kids' TV. I will come for you if you come for Bluey.

1:23:00Pilot TV Hosts:It's bold to come to Bluey. Wow.

1:23:03Esther Smith:Bluey is one of the greatest animations of all time. So I've heard. And everyone can watch it.

1:23:08Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it's on my sofa list. You don't send your response to everything now.

1:23:14Esther Smith:Yeah, it is his response to everything. You should watch Bluey. I'm not going to watch Blue. Can you watch an episode of Blue before you watch Widow's Bay?

1:23:19Pilot TV Hosts:No. Okay, fine. I'm not doing it.

1:23:21Esther Smith:Anyway, I'm just saying I love animation.

1:23:23Pilot TV Hosts:Okay, Steph, the animation fiend is on board for this.

1:23:27Esther Smith:Don't get me to describe it because I've got no idea what's going on. Right, okay. No, no, you're taking it now. No, I can't take it because I don't know. It is far too late. No, no, I'm not taking it. That shit has sailed.

1:23:37Pilot TV Hosts:Pilot TV's animation correspondent will 100 % pick up because obviously we pick up from where we left them in season one. As you will, of course, know, Steph, being a massive fan of animation, they were in chronological exile. So we see how they deal with that in an episode here called Days of Past Future, which, of course, as you know, Steph, is a riff on the famous X-Men storyline Days of Future Past and indeed the film of the same name. Isn't that right, Steph? Explain away.

1:24:02Esther Smith:Oh, God, don't make me... I don't know. I have no idea. I can tell you this, that they're scattered throughout different time periods from ancient Egypt to the future, to the far future. And, OK, what they've got to do they've got to find their way back to the 90s. Okay?

1:24:17Pilot TV Hosts:We're all trying to do that stuff.

1:24:18Esther Smith:Listen, I'm doing that all the time. Okay, right. So they need to get together to get rid of Apocalypse, right?

1:24:25Pilot TV Hosts:And Sabanur, the first mutant.

1:24:27Esther Smith:Why is he making me do it when he can do the voices as well? I'm just going to say that I had to watch this really quickly this morning and this is not my preferred way to watch animation because what I really wanted to do is wake up on Saturday morning and get a massive bowl of Cocoa Pops and sit down in my front room and watch it, which is how all animation, and especially this type of animation, should be devoured.

1:24:45Pilot TV Hosts:That's fair.

1:24:46Esther Smith:Isn't it? It's fair. Okay, so I was trying to take it all in, but obviously I hadn't watched the first season of X-Men 90s.

1:24:53Pilot TV Hosts:But did you watch the X-Men, the animated series, in the 90s?

1:24:56Esther Smith:Yeah, I watched it in the 90s,

1:24:57Pilot TV Hosts:but I can't remember it. Yeah, because I've got

1:25:00Esther Smith:an older brother and my brother would watch all of that. So I watched every... That's why I like superheroes and Marvel.

1:25:06Pilot TV Hosts:It was no Jason the Weald Warriors, but you know. Oh, that's great.

1:25:09Esther Smith:No, that's why I love all that kind of stuff because I'm not as forced to watch it because then you end up liking it, don't you? But anyway, right. So we've got to stop Apocalypse from taking over reality, okay? Yeah. Wow. Okay. Meanwhile, back in the home era, you've got Jubilee and Sunspot, and are they trying to save their son?

1:25:28Pilot TV Hosts:Well, you wouldn't know because they're not in the first episode. Okay, I don't know.

1:25:31Esther Smith:Right. I'm very confused.

1:25:32Pilot TV Hosts:But yes, they will tell us they're trailed at the very end of the first episode. We know that they're...

1:25:35Esther Smith:And who's trying to save their son in this first one?

1:25:37Pilot TV Hosts:That would be Cyclops and Jean Grey, their son, of course, being Nathan Summers, who grows up to be Cable in the future. and he is infected with a kind of cybernetic virus which is you know constantly battling with

1:25:47Esther Smith:I'm just going to say I have not watched X-Men for so long I literally can't remember who anyone is Storm is the one who manipulates Storms Halle Berry I know who Storm is like listen everyone knows who Storm is okay everyone knows who Wolverine is I'm talking about maybe the lesser known ones

1:26:02Pilot TV Hosts:Bishop and Forge and the likes of Who's the one with a headband? I think that's are you referring to Forge? Oh I don't know The one who's hopping around in time The guy with the headband looks like John Travolta Oh someone looks like John Travolta

1:26:14Esther Smith:oh yeah he has got yeah I don't know

1:26:16Pilot TV Hosts:I don't remember what I'm looking like John Travolta I haven't watched X-Men

1:26:18Esther Smith:for so long my brother is so obsessed with X-Men he named his first child Xavier and when people try and call him Xavier it's Xavier Charles Xavier that's what he's called his name's not Charles Xavier but he's called Xavier just saying he could have just called his son Charles and been done with it I should have done a rewatch I should have done a rewatch because I'm not up to speed on this I'm sorry oh god he would love that yes so that's all I know about this right I'm just I am just gonna hammer home the point I do think that you have to consume these type of series on a Saturday morning with a bowl of your favorite cereal it's really hard when you're in an office watching it to kind of get it into your eyes all right and in fairness to us we only did get we only did get this in fairness to me I only did get this last night so I'm probably not the best person but what I love about this kind of throwback is the music to me that takes me back to a time and place where I'm very happy and very comfortable and it's a duvet on the sofa on the Saturday morning and yeah this is the kind of thing that I would watch with Gracie and I know that she would really like as a 45 year old woman I'm not sure I'm just going to watch it off my own back is all I'd say but it was good for the cartoon that it is as a throwback

1:27:36Pilot TV Hosts:that was the analysis from Pilot TV's animation correspondent. Return now to TV's Boyd Hilton. I really liked the title sequence. Which is basically the same one that the 90s show had. I wouldn't know because I didn't ever watch the 90s show.

1:27:52Esther Smith:Oh, you never watched it? Okay, so he's less than me. Okay, I feel better now.

1:27:55Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, not only less than me, I never watched the 90s version, not on the slightest of interest. Hardly ever watched any of... I like the X-Men movies, live-action movies. They were good ones. Okay. They vary in quality, obviously, but some of them Some of them are really good, some of them are mediocre. Okay. But this was really fun. Like, I showed you each X person, you know, like a little card of them, and the music was fun. As you say, it was like kind of 80s rock, 80s power rock of some kind. But the rest of it was just completely bewildered, frankly.

1:28:27Esther Smith:But that's because you're not 13.

1:28:29Pilot TV Hosts:I mean, well. Well, this isn't aimed at 13-year-olds, really. This is aimed at people who watched X-Men when they were 13.

1:28:35Esther Smith:Oh, it's aimed at me. Okay. Oh, well, I liked it.

1:28:37Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, it's quite, you know, it's quite adult. Is it-ish? Is it? I don't think it is. Fundamentally here, this is, I think, you've stumbled, frankly, in the dark by absolute fluke onto the crux of this issue. Oh, I love that when that happens. Which is, who is this for? Yes. So, a lot of, the people that I know who watch here are generally people who either watched X-Men the Animated Series in the 90s, and like, oh my god, this is bad, that's so cool, and they've got the same voice actors, by and large, and the same animation style, and it just feels like the same show. or they're people who I guess are just animation nuts, right?

1:29:08Pilot TV Hosts:But it's still the same kind of, and to be fair, I don't think X-Men was generally a Saturday morning cartoon. Certainly that's not when I watched it. But it's still essentially a kid's show. Like, it's not an adult. Like, I say Invincible, right? Invincible uses a similar, shall we say, slightly basic throwback 90s animation style where it looks a bit shit. But it's undeniably adult in tone. It's much more sophisticated in its writing. And Invincible is probably an example of using, really shitty, janky animation, but with very sophisticated storytelling. This uses the same janky animation, but I would argue, and many people who listen to this podcast and who love animation would, I'm sure, disagree, I feel the storytelling is not sophisticated.

1:29:52Pilot TV Hosts:I feel that it is aimed very much at children because it feels a bit basic to me. And I think I had this with X-Men 97, the first season I watched. I'm like, this isn't for me. This is just a kid show, and I am no longer 13. I am now much older than that and I don't care anymore.

1:30:09Esther Smith:It definitely is a kid's cartoon. Yes, this is what I'm saying.

1:30:11Pilot TV Hosts:Okay, fine. So I kind of, I feel like this isn't like adult animated storytelling. This is just a kid's cartoon. But a lot of adults enjoy it and watch it. And I'm sure I will get lots of hate for this because I know there are a lot of people listening to this podcast who love X-Men 97. And Mon Warman, who has contributed to this podcast, I know is a massive fan of X-Men 97. There is nothing wrong.

1:30:28Esther Smith:Yeah, but there's also absolutely nothing wrong with adults loving...

1:30:33Pilot TV Hosts:Yeah, but I know what he means. Because that was the point I was about to make before you launched that monologue. No, no, it's fine because you've summed it up. I was mystified because I thought the whole show was an adult-oriented animation. But the voice acting and the script dialogue is very easy to follow. It's so easy to follow. Just basic. It's so basic. And so I was bewildered because I was like, oh, that was in my mind. I thought there was going to be some quite sophisticated, you know, banter or, I don't know, something or other that would define it as being for adults. But no, there isn't.

1:31:10Pilot TV Hosts:And so, yeah, I felt like I had never, no wish to watch any of it anymore ever again. And I had this with Invincible, and I often do with animation, is what I call animation voice. Yes. Where they put this incredibly high, like, humans don't talk like this. And I get that, you know, when you're doing an animated show like this, you're not really going for naturalism. it's not fucking cinema verite right that's not what they're trying to do definitely not right so I get it but it takes me out of it I can't it takes you out

1:31:38Esther Smith:of the animation it does

1:31:40Pilot TV Hosts:the animated voices take you out of the animation so lest we forget Arcane was an animated show that I really really enjoyed it's really good it's beautiful the animation is stunning the acting is great the storyline is multi-layered and complex and it's really engaging that is what I want from an animation I want it to have great storytelling great acting and looks stunning. This looks dreadful by design. To be fair, no, it is a stylistic choice.

1:32:05Esther Smith:It's comforting.

1:32:06Pilot TV Hosts:It's a stylistic choice, but let's be honest, it's not pushing the boundaries of animation, right? The voice acting is, again, it's very heightened, very kids' cartoony because that's where it evolved from. And I just don't think the storytelling is sophisticated. It just feels quite basic to me. And bear in mind, I really enjoy the X-Men stories. I like the comics. I like the characters. I'm actually already in the tank for a lot of this stuff, but I still can't bring myself to care because the storytelling, just for me, is too basic. And I just, yeah, I can't be dealing with it. I'm so sorry.

1:32:35Esther Smith:Wow, James. Okay. Well.

1:32:38Pilot TV Hosts:We are in agreeance. Yeah, sadly, our animation bias, despite Pilot TV's animation editor being here. The real test, by the way, of my own personal animation bias, which I'm very upfront about, and I know it's bad, but I'm not proud of it.

1:32:52Esther Smith:No, you shouldn't be. My thing is Ali Katz,

1:32:55Pilot TV Hosts:is the Ricky Gervais show.

1:32:57Esther Smith:Oh, God, that's such a good point.

1:32:59Pilot TV Hosts:But, you know, having already seen the trailer, and, you know, I'm like, I think... The trailer is great. I think I'm going to be on board with this one, yeah. But that is, in theory, that should be a test.

1:33:07Esther Smith:Oh, God, I can't wait till we review the next series of Bluey.

1:33:11Pilot TV Hosts:It may happen. It's only a matter of time. It genuinely may happen. Okay, it's been a slightly chaotic podcast. Right, what else is on this week? Well, Little House on the Prairie. Yeah, Steph's seen it. Yeah, I've seen it. By the way, did you like in my character guide piece that he didn't hate that I included the dog. Jack the Dog.

1:33:27Esther Smith:I've got so much to say about Jack the Dog. So I will be saying that all next week. It's all about Jack the Dog. It is all about Jack the Dog.

1:33:33Pilot TV Hosts:Jack the Dog is one of the main five characters. We're going to cover Little House on the Prairie on this week's Pilot Plus.

1:33:38Esther Smith:Oh, are we going to do it at Pilot Plus? Yes. Oh, fun.

1:33:40Pilot TV Hosts:Trying is, as we, obviously we spoke to Esther. Yes, season five. Season five starts on Wednesday, the 8th of July, 2026. James, we're particularly interested in this one. there's a documentary produced by Louis Theroux's production company James on Wednesday Sky Documentaries Katie Price nothing to hide

1:34:05Esther Smith:she's got nothing to hide I know everything well

1:34:08Pilot TV Hosts:you know we'll see there is what is Katie Price's alter ego? Jordan yes okay I do know who she is okay I'm just checking I mean that is a good point yeah and remember seriously of Austin do you remember the the Australian thing with Ben Miller and Sally Phillips and their long lost son that's back on Friday on BBC One they form I mentioned Mackenzie Cook and Marty if you remember The Office that's on Wednesday BBC Two 10 o 'clock and I think that's about The Westies oh The Westies which is on Sunday on MGM Plus which we're going to cover that on the next week's show oh yes yeah okay what is our pick of the week I mean it's going to be the dark office oh god

1:34:49Esther Smith:I didn't mind human vapour. Oh, did I? Oh, God. No, it's the dark, isn't it? Yeah, because the dark was really good at the end. It's probably the dark.

1:34:56Pilot TV Hosts:It's probably the dark.

1:34:58Esther Smith:ITV triumphs. Yes, ITV has won.

1:35:02Pilot TV Hosts:Oh, God. Right, that's it for this week's podcast. Thankfully. We hope you enjoyed it. It's nearly three o 'clock. It's nearly three. Honestly, it's taken us three hours to record this podcast. We've had a fire alarm. We've had, you know, Steph. We've had so much going on. It's been exhausting, which leaves us with literally an hour left to record our Dutton Branch episodes we need to get into that please leave us a review five stars would be lovely please don't leave us abuse that would be awful be nice yeah exactly and we will be back to talk Little House on the Prairie on Thursday and our next week's show J.K.

1:35:35Pilot TV Hosts:Simmons is going to be on which is very exciting not just J.K. Simmons J.K. Simmons and Tom Brittany news to Boyd always and they're going to be talking to Boyd's favourite Helen O 'Hara about the Westies which we'll be reviewing next week as well what else is out next week. Let's see. Oh, Lucky's next week but we're going to be doing that on Pilot Plus. There's a bumper, a load of bumper stuff. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Ride or Die is next week. Oh, Ride or Die.

1:35:57Esther Smith:Are we going to do Ride or Die? Five Star Weekend.

1:35:59Pilot TV Hosts:The Hawk on Netflix. The Hawk, Android. Android, yes. Diane Morgan. Diane Morgan. And Hot Stopper Forever, though that's a film. Well, is it though? Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Is it? Yeah. It is. It's not coming out in cinemas. It's a feature length episode of a TV show. It's a streaming film.

1:36:17Esther Smith:It's a feature length episode. It's a feature-length episode.

1:36:19Pilot TV Hosts:Well, we'll get into that later. Okay, God, I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. I'm not sure we have, but nevertheless, we'll see you on Thursday. Pilot out.