The Terror: Devil In Silver, Dog Park, and Fightland. With guests Aaron Pierre and Kyle Chandler

26:39The thing with Lego is, I don't have the patience for the following of the instructions and the building of the stuff, and I don't want to be told what to do. I like to freestyle. Don't give me your controls, your commands. Don't try and force me to do it your way. I'm having none of that. So I didn't like that. But also, then you built this great thing. where the fucking hell are you going to put it? You've got this great big model of Minas Tirith somewhere and you've got to find somewhere to put the fuck up or break it up again and put it in a box. I don't understand why you, of all people, would not like Lego.

27:06Are you telling me you've got a gigantic Lego set of whatever? Do you know how much fucking Lego is in my house? Oh my God. Oh dear. I have got so much Lego, it is unbelievable. And of specific builds? Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, honestly most of it is kind of Disney related Lego because it's, you know, Gracie and me build stuff together and it's so like, I'm telling you now, building the Moana Lego set is a deep joy. Like yes. Make way, make way. It's fantastic. But also I would just say, you do not have to do what they say. You can just freestyle Lego, which we do all the time. I'll have a lot of the Lego Friends sets and then you can just build whatever you want.

27:45And the aforementioned Murder, She Wrote, I think is just people building what they believe should help. I believe they're called Brickheads. Brickheads, yeah. Have you been to Legoland? No. What? You haven't been to Legoland? I think we're establishing here there's a big Lego divide. There's a line from the film The World's End which I think covers this particular topic. If anyone knows, then of course they know. But no, I just, yeah, I'm just not, I've got a friend who's obsessed with Lego and builds them all the time. I mean, I'm not obsessed with Lego. I'm just like a casual admirer of Lego and I do build quite a lot of Lego in my house but that's because I have a small Lego child person.

28:18I mean, your child is actually flesh and blood, not Lego. But you know what she likes it. I just feel like Lego is inherently exciting because you don't know what you're going to build unless you follow the instructions. Look, much as I would love to drop whatever it is, like 400 quid on a TIE fighter or something to build it out for Lego, I just, yeah, I just don't. However, let's roll with the hypotheticals because we have got a question and we should try and answer it. Like, if I were into Lego, what would it take to get me into Lego? Like, what would I need? And yes, obviously the answer to this, which is deeply tedious, I would like the complete West Wing, West Wing floor plan.

28:53And the reason why I say that is because, and this is true, you know my magnum opus, my big 35 odd thousand word West Wing feature? We all know about your magnum opus. EmpireOnline.com slash West dash wing. We all know about your big opus. I got, I commissioned an artist to do a floor plan, an architectural floor plan of Bartlett's West Wing. Because, no, absolutely serious. And it is an incredible piece of art. And he put it all together for him because there was a DVD, I believe it was a DVD, and in the background on the DVD you could see what looked like the layout of it and we combined that with like careful run-throughs of the shows to create this floor plan and then, wait for it, wait for it I am, I'm waiting I then did I then actually charted out the walk and talks with like different coloured lines for different people and where they joined the walk and talks and I did the blueprint of the walk and talks going through the West Wing James Yeah You have such big Lego energy right?

29:44You really do okay I'm going to put it to you that if Lego said that they were going to make, like they were going to give you the bricks and instructions to make a life-size Lego of yourself, would that entice you to build it? I don't think so, no. I don't know. I think I'd need something more to do with my particular passion. So if it was like the CIC from Battlestar Galactica, I would build that. I'm telling you now, James, if you haven't tried to build a life-size Lego Darth Vader, you really haven't lived. I mean, that's fair. Just Darth Vader. Just Darth Vader. Have you ever seen the life-size Lego Darth Vader?

30:17They're so great. You get them in the shops, don't you? Yeah, they're brilliant. What was the big toy shop in New York since closed down? F.A.R. Schwartz. They used to have a massive one, didn't they? In fact, I think it was a Chewbacca. They had Chewbacca, which was pretty spectacular. I mean, even in the toy shops now, they have big Lego drinks. They do do those amazing... It's really funny, though, because there was a viral thing that went on. I think it was at Comic-Con this year. There was a Lego Star Trek, USS Enterprise, NCC-1701D, which is the Galaxy-class Enterprise, and they put the nacelles on backwards.

30:47And it was just like, what is wrong with this picture? And it was like, if you're a nerd, you know, and you instantly look at it, what fuck are putting the cells on backwards? Honestly. But I like that not included, the attention to detail that they were going to. It was great. But something occurred to me, and so I'm digressing, because we're talking about Star Trek now. So a friend of mine sent me a clip, and it was Jonathan Frakes and Brent Spiner from Star Trek This Generation talking to Alan Tudyk and Nathan Fillion from Firefly. And they were talking about the respective sci-fi shows. And at one point, one of them mentioned, oh, you know, of course, you had carpet on the Enterprise.

31:21And I was like, they fucking did as well. And this has blown my mind. The Enterprise was fully carpeted. First of all, who was fitting that carpet on all the decks of the Enterprise? Who was cleaning that carpet? It is so impractical. Why was the Enterprise fully carpeted? Two words for you. Robot vacuum. Do you think that's what it is? They had a Ludwig and it just went around cleaning all the decks. You know what? That is 100 % the answer. It's yet another reason why OG Star Trek is the best Star Trek. I mean, yeah, we have... Is that carpeting? I'm talking about Next Gen, but sure, they also had carpeting.

31:55I still feel now that kind of feels OG. It feels OG Star Trek. The Enterprise on Strange New Worlds, not carpeted. No upholstery at all. What is the flooring like there? It's shiny. I mean, it's wiped down. It's much more practical. Everything's shiny floor, isn't it, these days? All the spaceships, it's all shiny floor. Yeah. Anyway, this is not about Lego anymore. You totally... But you know what? Ludwig also mops. So actually... Yeah, so does mine. Yeah, so they could use Ludwig even on the new Enterprise. Yeah. Oh, God. God, we have some great discussions. We really do. We really do. Anyway, the question was, what would we want to be made out of Lego, right?

32:29Yes. Okay, so I'm going to say, I'm looking at people who have done Murder, She Wrote, television series Lego ideas, and that is absolutely what I'd want. I want Cabot Cove, which I know... No, I'm sorry, because I'm not technically allowed the West Wing, even though I've already talked about it, so that's not going to be my choice, because it is disavowed. in the same way that Boydie cannot have A, Frasier's apartment or B, anything from Seinfeld and you cannot have anything from Cabot Cove. So you've got to come up with something that's outside of the band criteria. But I feel like that, like you've been on this show for like 8 ,000 years and that band, you've probably had like five good years of talking about that type of stuff.

33:04Yeah, life is unfair, Steph. So come back to me in four years and I will stop talking about Murder She Ray. Okay, I'm going to think of another one. Ooh, what class can I have? Do you need Boydie to do his? You do yours and I'll have a thing. But you know that, can I just say, I know there is actually a Seinfeld set. I know. There is a Seinfeld set. And you can't have it. You can get it now for about 150 quid on the... That's actually quite cheap for later. It's not bad. And I am very delighted by it because I've never... I knew it was around, but the detail of it is brilliant because you've got like cereal boxes and stuff that Jerry...

33:32Oh, yeah. Yeah. That is fun. But I would say... Do you know what? I should have included this in what we've been watching because last night I watched the UK TV show in which the comedians David Earle and the other guy who's also in Ali Katz anyway they go they look explore classic sitcoms and there's an episode all about The Office and they go and they interview Ricky and they go to the locations in Slough where they film the title sequence and everything and the actual and then I ended up watching an episode of The Office afterwards this is last night and Joe Wilkinson he's the co-host of it and it's a really good show actually because they kind of surprise each other with different exciting reminiscences and people involved in the creation of 40 Towers and The Office of Porridge.

34:20Anyway, so I would have the office set in Lego version with a Lego David Brent doing the dance and the kind of photocopier and all of that. I would have the office. Oh, off the back of what you said, I'd quite like a phone shop set because I love that show so much. You're obsessed with phone shop. I just really enjoyed that show. It was funny. It's really, really funny. Question. Yeah. What's phone shop? Okay. I'll see you I'll see you next week what are you talking about? what's Phone Shop? you never watched it it's a comedy you never watched Phone Shop the comedy Phone Shop? no anyone good in it?

34:54yes yes Andrew Brooks in it and he's incredible as Ashley it's amazing Javon Prince Tom Bennett from The House of the Dragon the Alf Alf Alf Alf the White Alf the White and it's a very similar performance frankly so you know Kay Van Novak Martin Treneman Emma Fryer oh it's just it's so It was a very post-office show, wasn't it? It was definitely the style of it. The performances were very much in the kind of David Brent style, which is true for a lot of post-office sitcoms. Yeah. But it had that feel to it, that kind of like... Can you please watch an episode? Oh, no, you hate it. I don't think anybody needs that.

35:31It's so good. I can't believe you've never watched the... Oh, no, about The Phone Shop. And it's not called The Phone Shop, because I don't know why I have to keep putting definite articles in front of... It's a mum thing to do. It is a mum thing. What is it? Yeah. What is wrong with me? I'm going to watch the Coronation Street. Like, adding an S to everything. So Cliff Richards and, you know. That's another mum thing. It's called Phone Shop. No, the. Jesus Christ. Do you know, I've decided what mine will be. Yeah, go on. Okay, good. Go on. If I would have a set, I would want it to be the Downton Abbey.

36:08The whole of Downton Abbey. Oh, they must make a Downton Abbey. No, but if they did that, it'd be like one of their 600 quid things. It'd be like three metres wide, and you'd be able to open it up, and it'd be an upstairs and a downstairs and everything. Yeah, I would like that. Oh my God, do you know what I just realised? I think I called it the Mayor of Easttown. You did, yes. The Mayor of Kingstown. Oh God. Sorry. Mayor of Kingstown. Right, I'm going to look up Downton Abbey. Downton Abbey. Oh, this is a very mum thing as well, isn't it? Downton Abbey Lego sets. Steph is using the internets.

36:41Yeah, very exciting. Okay. No, again, it's on. It's on a lot of people's... Wish list? You know, Lego ideas. But there's not an official... Oh, no. That's not real, though, is it? That's an AI Lego set, isn't it? No, it's got the logo. It's got the logo. Oh, it's got the logo. Scammers just know what's happening when they find me. Yes, I think... Let's all Google it. Google it. No, Boyd, you've got to go on the Google. On the Google. On the Google. Let's go on the Google. Have a look on the Google. Crank up Google. Oh, they're going to make this an official... No, they're not. They're not. They're not.

37:19This is all nonsense. What are you talking about? No, but yes, that's a good one. Yeah. Yes. I always forget you love Downton. I do love Downton. I mean, obviously, my other answer would be the Rocinante from The Expanse, but Downton would be... The what, the thing? The Rocinante. What the fuck is that? It's the ship. Oh, okay. Yeah. What is the ship? It's from Don Quixote. Don Quixote. Don Quixote. Sorry, the Don Quixote. Don Quixotes, yeah. I believe it's the name of his horse. Oh, okay. Interesting. All right, well, call me shop that you don't like Lego, but that is a good answer. There we go.

37:53Did you have one? Did we do that? I can't even remember what happened. Did you have a real one in the end? I don't think you did. I can't remember. It doesn't have to be real. It's possibly you did. It literally just started a whole conversation about phone shop and me calling him on that phone shop. This literally just happened. What is going on? We got sidetracked talking about the phone shop. You both completely forgot what we were just talking about. Yeah, that happens. Is it me? It could be. It could be. I mean, it could be the lingering effects of the Novichok, to be honest with you, because I'm really starting to feel the effects kicking in.

38:24Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Okay, right. Oof, okay. I feel we did. I feel we did. Thank you very much for sending that in to us, Gary. We appreciate that. and, you know, we managed to survive that part. Let's see if we live through the rest of the podcast. Right. Should we have guests? Should we do that? Let's do that. Bring on the ring. Bring on the ring. The double ring. Yes. Oh, God, this is so poorly chosen. Anyway, it is time now for this week's guests and you will recall us reviewing the rather excellent Lanterns or The Lanterns, if you prefer, last week, which has started now on HBO Max and it is a grounded crime thriller that Well, based on, let's be honest, a slightly goofy sci-fi comic, is a proper bit of HBO event television, right?

39:09And it should appeal to everyone, even the most venomous sci-fi hater. Yes, yes, even Kay. She doesn't. She likes it now. Hates it all. Anyway, I sat down with both Aaron Pierre and Carl Chandler, who played Jon Stewart and Hal Jordan, respectively, and we discussed everything from Friday Night Lights to comedy, to leather jackets, and even the meaning of the word bellend. oh did you discuss the meaning of the word that's a great question I thought so I'm going to listen to this interview enjoy well guys thank you very much for talking to me at the end of your London Breast tour how has the whole London thing been obviously for you it's a homecoming which is quite nice it's home home sweet home yeah do you get to come back often and have you guys been out together it's my favourite city in the world it raised me so it's always a joy you get to go out Kyle this is Greg's have a pasty have a sausage roll have a sausage roll quintessential London experience right I mean, if we had more time, that's definitely something we'd give a go for sure.

40:08There was a thing that I read when you guys were talking about doing prep for the show, and you were saying that you'd bought comics with a friend of yours when you were a kid from WH Smith, and I thought that was one of the most English things I'd ever read, and I very much appreciated that. WH Smith, yeah. 100%. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a very special moment in my life. I was maybe primary school source at night nine, and it was my childhood best friend who, as you're aware, because I've said it before, sadly he's no longer with us, rest in peace. But he was very educated on comics way before I was, and he loved the universes and was very educated on it.

40:48And he put me onto it, and eventually I got my first comic from WH Smith. I think it was JLA Avengers. I can't remember exactly which one, but yeah, it was an amazing experience to read that for the first time. And that really led to the rest of my journey of educating myself on that world and those worlds. I love that when you guys, you did loads of research for it, and I believe you kind of flew by the seat of your pants. And I thought in terms of prep for these characters, that seems to sum up their dynamic absolutely perfectly. You know, fly boy, cavalier attitude, completely prepared, super disciplined, right?

41:22Like there couldn't be more chalk and cheese. Yeah, no, I didn't. I didn't. I was unaware of who Green Lantern was the whole deal. So but once I got into this at the initial, you know, it was the show itself. It's it's it's more earthbound, if you will, especially at the beginning. It sort of it sort of grows and changes into a larger aperture as you go along. and um so uh you know all my education of green lantern came from uh you know going online and reading up the history of dc comics and how all that and and then uh of course you've got the guys at work you know you go in the room they they give you the full any question you have you ask and sometimes they're like i don't know about i don't know but then it was really funny because you know i i have a couple friends in the world and i started coming out of the woodworks all these guys how do you know green lantern so i like like they were aficionados of green lantern and filling in me in with information and uh it was really interesting so uh there were a lot of different places to get it but um the most important thing being the relationship between this uh this guy here and and uh what what we did you know on laren well i think it's what's it james gun was talking about this and he was saying he kind of pitched this as as the true detective thing which i'm sure you've heard many many times but and i was like yeah okay sure and then you watch it and it really has that that vibe to it and i think what what makes true detective you know like the first series woody harris and matthew mcconaughey one like what works about that is it's it feels like the actual whodunit the crime is secondary to the emotional journey that these characters go on like you get inside their heads the feel of their relationship is like the heart of that whole show exactly the same with this yeah those two are those two are really good friends and it shows on that screen and uh it's nice that uh he and i we aaron and i really don't like each show we're just that's how good of actors we are i despise him yes yes yeah you know it's funny like the showrunner was saying he was saying that uh like you guys had a chemistry and they're like you can't you can't like manufacture this like it's either there it's not i always wondered like do you think that's true because you guys obviously get on well but obviously as actors like that won't always be the case can can you manufacture chemistry i don't know i've heard a lot of stories about a guy and a gal in a movie who hate each other's guts and it doesn't look it on screen there's a spark there but um this one genuinely as far as i'm concerned i really enjoy this guy's company and and we had fun and we both opened up our hearts to to expose our to expose our inner selves to be able to really make fun of each other and have fun on the set that's and that's that's not hyperbole that that's very accurate and true and i think one of the things I appreciate so much about Kyle and something that we share is we're both very open books.

44:20You know what I mean? That is what led to our dynamic establishing itself at the expedited pace that it did, is because there was no ego. It was just open books and it was like, let's do this, let's make it the best version of itself. And once you get there, then you can just take the mick out of each other and, you know, just have a lot of fun. And it's been a real joy. It's been a real joy. And also, I think it's important to mention that, you know, immediately, we recognized that there was a beautiful, creative collaboration and partnership present. But as Kyle said, it's not a given that that will also be the case just as individuals outside of the context of being actors.

45:10And neither Kyle or I forced that dynamic, that friendship. We allowed it to organically find itself and it became a sincere, dear friendship. And that's where the brotherly chemistry comes in. Sometimes it leaks into uncle and nephew. And I'm almost certain I don't even need to check in with him i know i'm his favorite nephew you know to sum it all up i think you can just say our performances came at the expense of each other he's getting tired needs his nap he hasn't had one yet no that's okay wait till you try to start your car today

45:50you know what like it's like the banter between the two characters especially later on with like you know i'm gonna say like holographic how right the the dynamic between those two is properly funny, like genuinely hilarious. And it has to be said, like... So fun to do. Right, yeah, and it looks so fun. And, you know, absolutely deadpan, Stuart. It's like complete, but also hilarious. Whenever Kyle's not aware of this, but whenever he would come on set as the hologram, me and the crew used to look at each other and be like, oh, we spent a little bit of time in the makeup truck today, looking very sharp, very clean, very handsome.

46:24You've got to shave off a decade, right? got that that perfect car coming down yeah it's perfect superman got nothing on my but like not be funny like you're a really good comic actor like game night one of my favorite comedies genuinely genius i was devastated there was never a sequel to that film but do you look for that because you're really good at this with comic time i'll be quite honest for years i've been telling my agent leslie siebert who i've been with for longer than i've been married that's over 30 years right and uh i don't know when it was but i started telling her i'm funny i want to do i want to do comedy and um i when i was doing interviews that you know you are you guys are you is there anything else you want to say oh yeah i'd say i want people to know i'm funny and when i got that job i got to call her up and say i told you they they see it and uh i was so nervous before i did that damn job really uh but um yeah because it's comedy yeah you know i got the dog caught the car and uh but um i was so so happy to do uh to be able to to play this stuff you know it's great it is a lot of fun but then deadpan comedy is funny like that's a lot of fun too right because you you often is the deadpan guy who's drawing out the laugh yeah i'm no yeah and my guy is absolutely no good without his perfect timing there's nothing no way about that it's it's a lot of fun it's a lot of fun that dynamic and um i think in in life i i don't think i'm funny but my my friends and family tell me i'm funny unintentionally and i think i think and i think because i can be so serious and i think that's what john is as well he's not intentionally trying to be hilarious but sometimes it just has you falling over because he's you know of how he's experiencing a particular moment i laugh at you

48:13i mean you're funny funny how yeah funny funny no you're funny funny you're a good actor but come on do you know i love that their experience and everything their approach to everything is so it differently sorry is that going to translate in written media it's already up it's a podcast you're all good okay you're all good nothing gets lost but like but genuinely because like the whole green lantern thing is about fear right fear is the theme that goes through it and i feel like their experiences of fear are fundamentally very different things you know i feel like with how like fear is a certain bit the legacy of like the loss of his father like is a lot of what shapes his idea of fear and john's idea of fear is is life experience because there's one bit where you're talking about withholding information and the line is like i'm a black man in rural nebraska like of course i didn't fucking tell anyone and they just thought they come at it from very very different backgrounds and that makes for a really interesting character dynamic i think there there there is a beautiful character dynamic and um you know these characters are seemingly diametrically opposed but interestingly enough in equal measure they have just as many similarities as they do things that are complete opposition from one another.

49:36I think part of the magic that we discovered about our dynamic is that there has to be that opposition in order for it to be successful. If they're the same person, it's not entertaining. Yeah, you definitely need the counterpoint without a doubt. I also like a lot of what is not mentioned in this whole script. There's one thing I like to go back to. What is it? And in this, oh, yes, when I have a scene with Kelly McDonald and we're in a hallway and I'm asking her about her childhood. And she just casually real quickly says, well, I'm from Gotham. And that was the first time in the script that that that I was as Kyle, the actor was like, oh, yeah, there's there's a whole world of superheroes flying.

50:20You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But also, you know, we never. And I think this is really important because it changed our dynamic as a friendship in the roles immediately. How great that they never brought up, we never talked about race or anything like that. It's just a given. We're two men, two equal. You could have gone down that line, but they didn't. And I thought that was important too. It didn't need to be said. But it could have been. It could have been another part of the show. You know, just to follow on from what Kyle's saying, I think what the writers did in that writers' room is real brilliance.

51:00Because what they did is they, throughout moments in this series, they highlight undeniably important topics. And they highlight it in a way that doesn't feel didactic. And they highlight it in a way where people whose experience it is, they say, I feel understood, I feel seen, I feel heard. And people whose experience that is not, It's not their direct experience. They made infinite access points for people to empathize and say, I understand that. How can we move forward together and make a solution? I think that writer's room is magic. And it was our job to meet that magic on the page, as Kyle says, you know.

51:35Damn, that's a pretty brilliant explanation of what I was trying to say. I've got to say, you talk the rest of the time. You know what? You're absolutely right, though. Because to your point, that line was one that I bumped on in a big way for exactly what you said. I was like, oh, shit. This is the DC world, like Metropolis, Gotham. And it hadn't even registered with me because the show is incredibly grounded. And that's impressive for a comic book show, but it's especially impressive for a Green Lantern show because Green Lantern is one of the more out there characters, right? Very sci-fi, very kind of separate from our lived experience.

52:09And yet this show is incredibly grounded. These guys knew what they were doing. And apparently they sat out in Chris Monday's backyard to try to spitball this thing to figure out what to do. You know, even even to the point, you know, true detective. But there's also Tom King was saying in an interview that his vision of Rushville, which is where his grandmother lives in real life. He wanted to put it in. He was thinking of Lawrence of Arabia, you know, this little town out in the middle of this great desert. to draw focus to it and make it bigger than what it could be. And just little things like that.

52:49You can see a bunch of guys sitting around. They throw this stuff out, but, boy, does it really make changes. They really know what they're doing. You know, great stuff. Yeah, it's really, really nice. I mean, look, Damon Lindelof, who did Watchmen, which is another just brilliant comic book adaptation, really kind of elevated, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, with Lost, he was telling me that when Comic-Con and everything back in the day when it started, because we went to San Diego, I'd never done anything like this Comic-Con stuff. And he described how he was going there as a kid and stuff.

53:16But Tom King, too, I guess. And a very different start from what it was when I saw it. But the whole comic world, I didn't know it was an international billion-dollar organism. Oh, it's one. You know, I'm still learning about it. Yeah. A lot of people are very possessive of this stuff as well. I guess you have to kind of filter that out a little bit and just do your own thing. Oh, you mean ownership of these are my characters? from an audience viewpoint. And this is what I want it to be. And what you're doing, it's like, if it's not in their head what they want it to be, they can be very, very possessive of it.

53:49Because this is a fucking brilliant show. But it wouldn't surprise me if some DC people were like, well, because obviously the end of the first episode, right? Hal, people are going to freak out a little bit about it. Yeah, I've been warned of exactly what you're talking about. That's why I don't read any press. Don't read any of it. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, Carl and I, we share the same perspective and philosophy when it comes to our work, you know? we don't read anything, we don't listen to anything. You know, you do the work to the best of your ability, you pour yourself into it and the rest is none of your business.

54:19100%, yeah. The rest of the time, we're cowards running from it. Do it. Never go online. But something I wanted to ask you about Hal, is like, Hal is what we in the UK would refer to as a massive bellend, right? A what to? He is a massive bellend. I can't make any kind of comment on that. Listen, man. Explain too much, right? I don't know how to in an appropriate way for a podcast. Yeah, if you're in England. Yeah, it's a pejorative, a sort of a very fond British pejorative. Okay, so I get what you're saying. Absolutely. And what a great character to play. Yeah. I mean, first of all, it's half me.

54:56I admit it. I admit it. Embrace your interbellion. But man alive, what a fun character to play. And that's what I saw in the script, too. So self-deprecating. and also you get to play the fool and yet you've still got the knowledge and everything so you're playing the fool but or is he smarter than what he appears and you get to play off of that stuff too awesome so much fun to go to work i think chris described him as maddening and magnetic in equal measure you just described me as my wife might describe me man i don't know maybe minus the magnetic i wanted to ask you guys i mean this is this is proper event television incredible stuff i'm happy to hear but there is so much great television that is such a beautiful compliment thank you sir i mean but i mean it really is i mean look but i wonder like you guys are obviously aware of the kind of stuff that's out there in tv at the moment how amazing it all is but do you appreciate it just from an acting point of view like in terms of opportunities in terms of jobs or do you actually sit down and think you know what i fucking love this show i love watching this like do you engage with tv on that level as well or is it you know work that's a really interesting question um interestingly i when it comes to media that i access and i engage with majority of what i do is watch documentaries and listen to music that's actually and you know and live my life that's actually the majority of what i draw inspiration from music documentaries and and real life um i do i do love film though and i do love theater you know so i do uh go to you know see plays a lot and I do watch films and when I do watch TV it's it's often event television you know it's often HBO things it's often you know things that have just extraordinary directors attached to it but then I also have my guilty pleasures what would be a guilty pleasure that's for another podcast how about you Carl do you get a lot of time to watch TV I I do yeah Yeah, Catherine and I, we watch a lot of shows.

56:52It's rare that I get caught all five senses when I'm watching something. If I do, I'm in fully, obviously. But I probably watch a lot more movies. I'm sort of like the Criterion Channel, like going into that stuff and going a little deep into the, you know, like Finnish film noir and that kind of stuff. There's some good stuff out there. A lot of great actors from the past to steal from, I can tell you. But, yeah, no, I love watching a lot of different films. And, you know, TV, I love watching TV because, you know, there's TV. There's great TV. There's this TV. There's that TV. But there's plenty at all times to learn from watching any show.

57:34Like I love watching a badly written show and watching an actor come on there and just turn it around. And I learned from watching a guy take bad dialogue, which, you know, we all have it happen. And he elevates somehow, some way. And there's a lot of little tricks out there you can find from these actors. And I'm always amazed at, you know, I don't consider myself a great actor. But, boy, I tell you what, when I see people come on shows that I'm on that are already the train is rolling and they're coming in as a guest star, you know, that's a nervous thing for a fellow to do. That train's moving fast.

58:09You grab on, they kick you off the other side after the first episode, you know, you just get on there for that moment. and some people are just, they just come on there and they just own it just from that get-go. Really great acting and, you know, it's amazing. I mean, you're talking about great TV. I've got to let you guys go, but I cannot let you go without saying it is 20 years since Friday Night Lights started. Have you ever seen Friday Night Lights? One of the greatest TV shows. I've only seen bits and pieces here and there. He'll never watch it after knowing me now. He'll never watch it.

58:39I've heard nothing but phenomenal things and I've seen bits and pieces, but I'd love to. I'd love to engage with it in the future for sure. It's definitely worth your time. Maybe when you're in the hospital for a long stay. That's what I'm saving all your stuff for, pal. Do you see Coach Taylor differently now looking back with this time past? Do you have a different relationship with him now than you did when you were in it? No, no. But when I watch it, you know, there's a young, fresh-faced kid on there that, you know, I certainly didn't feel like a young, fresh-faced kid back then. But, you know, 20 years later, you look back and that's just the joy of getting older.

59:15I mean, it really is. You know, the older I get, the more I just, the more I feel more comfortable in life. And it's a great thing. It's a great thing. I've really enjoyed it so much. And to still be working? I mean, come on. I never expected that. I love hearing Kyle talk about that. I mean, Kyle and I, we're always, always jabbing at each other and messing around. It's the nature of our friendship and we love it. But I do love hearing Kyle talk about stuff like that. And something I shared with Kyle while we were filming is I have this anxiety sometimes that time is moving faster than I want it to.

59:50And I feel like, you know, I'm a young man, but I feel like my youth is running away. Oh, it is. You know, and that's what he'll say on the podcast. But in private, he gives really golden advice and just very reassuring advice. Coach Taylor advice. Exact Coach Taylor about how to be in the present moment and enjoy it while it's here, you know. So it was really great to actually just overhear that. Yeah, clear eyes, full hearts. Can't lose. Hear you. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks, man. That was Aaron Pierre and Carl Chandler and time now for this week's news. We've already talked about the Slow Horses trailer.

1:00:24Yes. Which has been out there, but there have been other things happening, haven't there? So for example, I don't know if you knew this, but It Welcome to Derry had up until this point not been renewed. We all assumed it would come back, but it has only just been given its season 2 renewal so that was literally my one bit of news well I've just ruined news for Steph or sorry the news for Steph but anything else? yeah only murders in the building yes yes which is being filmed in London this series it's only murders in Britain effectively and they've announced Olivia Colman is joining the cast great casting great still won't watch it this cast I think the last time I went through this cast was about a couple of months ago.

1:01:06This cast is astonishing. I'm saying, I'm about to read you the confirmed star members of this cast. They do do this every season. No, no, no, no. This is, honestly. They've had Meryl Streep. She's still in it, isn't she? Yeah, on and off, yeah. That whole story, with her real-life friendship slash relationship, who knows what, with the guy who's in it. Meryl. Martin Short? Meryl and Martin, yeah. Oh, thank you, Martin Short. Marty, as I like to call it. Yeah, but they definitely are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's incredible, isn't it? What a story. No, this line-up, honestly, outshines the previous ones.

1:01:39Okay. Come on, then. Hit me with it. I'll hit you with it. So, Olivia Colman just confirmed. David Tennant, Sharon Horgan, Martin Freeman, Jim Broadbent, Jennifer Saunders, Gerry Halliwell, Nicola Coughlin, Sean Teal, Jodie Whittaker, Richard Ayoade, Matthew Beer, Jamie Dimitriou, and Jana Vassan, Jane Horrocks, Derek Jacoby, what? and Peter Capaldi. That is insane. That is crazy. And by the way, you may, as I went through, there's a lot of Doctor Whos in there. There are three Doctors in there. Peter Capaldi, Jodie Whittaker, and David Tennant are all in this fucking show. So either the casting director or the creators are obsessed with Doctor Who, or they haven't realised, or it's all going to be an in-joke about Doctor Who and the murder will have happened on the TARDIS or something.

1:02:29Can you imagine? Oh, I love that. So, come on, James. James, come on. It's got Peter Capaldi in it. Yeah, great people, boring show. I don't know what to do anymore. It's not a boring show. Evidence to the contrary. Okay, but you know what? You can start, you can, right, you can watch it just for this cast. So you don't have to... No, no, no, no. We did weekly spoiler specials for this and I literally had to bail halfway through it. His experience of the show has been marred by the fact that we foolishly agreed to do it every week. Yeah, they made me watch it. And it was not a great season, especially when it sagged in the middle massively.

1:03:04And that has completely ruined his whole experience of the show. So much so, as I recall, to keep myself amused, I had to do a spoiler special on that while working in as many Taylor Swift song titles as I possibly could into episodes of podcasts without those two noticing. That was the highlight of it for me. Painful, painful. That's the explanation. and he's missed out because the season which was all set in Hollywood with all their different that was fantastic so which season did you do the spoiler specials on? like three maybe oh I don't know the really boring one whatever that was it wasn't really boring but it was not the best it was a difficult third season I think anyway I stand behind my claim that that cast is absolutely that cast is amazing I think you should give it another go but I will take you watching Mayor of Easttown not the Mayor of Easttown because that is not what the show is called right okay There have been other trailers.

1:03:52Go on. There has been a trailer for Vision Quest, the latest Marvel TV series. Oh, I saw that. That's so exciting. I'm quite excited about that one, actually. Because that's going to want WandaVision. Remains the best of all the MCU TV shows. So excited about this. I'm going to agree with that. There was also a trailer for season two of Ahsoka, which is the latest Disney. These all come out of D23, which our Ben Travis was at. And that's the new Star Wars, the second season of that Star Wars show. So the first season was fine, but obviously, tragically, Ray Stevenson has died, so he will not be returning to his role in that.

1:04:28But he has been replaced by The Hound. Who did Ray Stevenson play? He played Balan Skull. Okay. He was kind of like a Sithy character. But he's being replaced by the Hound, as I say. Rory McCann is... And Rory McCann is great. Rory McCann is great. He was in the book group years ago. Oh, he's fantastic at everything. But Ray Stevenson was, I would argue, the best thing in Ahsoka. So that's why it's a blow. Yeah, it was fine. It was fine, wasn't it? I think it was slightly underrated. I remember enjoying it quite a lot because it felt different. It felt inessential, I think. But then so many of these shows are.

1:05:00But it was fine. I didn't dislike it, but it's been a while. What was the most exciting news from that, TV-related news from that old D23? Well, see, what you've done there is caveated with TV-related. Yes. It was exciting news, but most of it was film-related. I know, yeah, that's deliberately. I mean, the Ryan Gosling news was very exciting, the Ghost Rider news. It was exciting that Kit Conner from Heartstopper is going to be playing Cyclops. In a film. In an X-Men film. So that was almost TV-related because he's most famous by far for being in a... I think if they've come from a TV show, you can...

1:05:32Thank you. Really? Thank you for all your support on this matter. But that was exciting. Yeah. But are there any purely TV-related exciting news from... Yeah, what else is there that's purely... I can't think of any super exciting TV-related news that came from it, if I'm honest with you. Oh, there you go. Did you see that Patrick Bramwell trailer for Last Scene? No, I didn't. I missed that. I wanted to watch that, but it didn't. Oh, it's going to be good. So he's like a dispatcher who's... That's a thriller, isn't it? Yes. I think it's like September... Apple. you had Boyd at Dispatcher because he loves a Dispatcher I do his daughter goes missing but he thinks she's still alive and then he gets a call from someone that looks really good can I just be honest with you you don't think Patrick Bramwell don't say it because I'm going to upset go on say it what I'm going to say is I did not I thought he was wildly miscast in The Devil Weights Prada 2 well he didn't have a lot to do like that part was a little bit I just didn't believe that she would her and him it was a mismatch that's a mismatch I'm sorry I can't go along with that and so that slightly marred my view of Patrick.

1:06:28I knew you. Did you know I was going to say it? Yeah, I knew you were going to say it. I like being that predictable. Well, no, I knew you were going to have problems with Patrick Bramall outside of... A little bit. Are you saying that Anne Hathaway was out of his league? Is that what you... It feels like that's the subtext here. That's exactly what I'm saying. But have you seen his real-life wife? Obviously, she's amazing. Yes, because she's in Colin from accounts. Yeah, that's what I mean. She's in Colin from accounts. Okay, maybe. I just... I think that you don't want him out of Colin from accounts.

1:06:52That's what I think. A little bit, but no, no.

1:06:57doing dramatic I'm excited to see him the trailer's really good but he thought I was going to say I don't think he's been he can do pull it off I'm sure he can I'm sure he can okay I won't have any Patrick Bashan because I love him a lot I'm not Bashan no that is fair if we're talking TV news we should mention that for better or worse Nicholas Holt has joined the cast of the second season of the Harry Potter TV show as Gilderoy Lockhart which is a Kenneth Branagh role in the films no controversy there no controversy there whatsoever nothing controversial about that at all I love Nicholas Holt all good yes and the internet does too and in no way set him on fire when he announced that he was going to be doing this I just think we should really have a blanket ban on people being mean yeah I agree just stop it talking of which another news show while we were all because last week we didn't do any news remember because we had lengthy discussion about animation we did yeah fabulous and could we say we've got homework to do we've got things to watch when's our deadline for that soon I've done mine have you yes of course you have of course you have I haven't watched mine yet but yeah we need to do it but we need to do it for when Steph is back from holiday yeah when we're all back from being away so it will be a couple of weeks and then we will we're all away next week yes we are which is going to make for an interesting podcast John who producing my Edinburgh thing next week oh he's with you yeah he'll be with me well he'll be there to nag you about watching the things he asked you to watch I think he's probably more interested in the panel way of doing I doubt it anyway what I was going to say was talking to people getting angry on the internet apparently first of all Peter Drivery announced two major cast members, right, for season two, who are Justice Smith and Charlie Gillespie.

1:08:33And people got annoyed about, the people who'd read the books and stuff, got annoyed, as they do about casting news, when they don't think that the person cast is exactly the person they had in their head. I'm just starting to think people just want to be annoyed. Yeah, it's almost like that. The author of the books, Rachel Reid, had to come publicly and said, she's in favour of this casting, and people stopped complaining about it, which I thought was good and not good of her to do because this stuff gets out of hand very quickly. Yeah. Doesn't it? I haven't read the books or anything but at least they're filming that I think now they're filming it and those are the two main Newcastle members.

1:09:07Okay. Okay. Is there any other TV news that we wish to cover off? I'm going to say one thing just because I meant to say this last week I never wrote a short time mainly because I've got a hard out but I wanted to say that when we reviewed the Shards Yeah. and I explained various things about the genesis of the shards and how it's ended up. And those things turned out to be not entirely correct. And I also addressed, pointed out that I thought there was weirdly chaste and not kind of hot enough. And all these things have been addressed by an interview that Ryan Murphy gave to one of the varieties or Hollywood reporters or whatever.

1:09:45And he basically explained that he doesn't like having raunchy scenes of intimacy in his shows generally now because he's got kids. And to me, that's an inane and stupid reason for not doing what you're kind of most famous for. One of the things that Ryan Murphy, going back to American Horror Story, and what was the nip-tuck? That was the first thing that he was famous for. That was basically porn, yes. That was basically porn. And he's now being all like, oh no, I'm all classy now. But the problem with that is, is when you're adapting a thing like the Shards, and one of the... You want it to be true to source.

1:10:18I'm enjoying the Shards very much. It is great. I'm really enjoying it. But the one thing it's got wrong is that tone needs to be raunchy because that's the whole emphasis of the book is on him being lasciviously lusting after people. And you just don't get that with this version of it. And I think that's a real shame. I think when we talked about this before and I said, oh, is it because kind of balancing out the actual horror of the killing parts? Maybe that was a reason. We didn't know that might be a reason behind it, but now we know the reason. I'm going to slightly defend that. I know I agree with you.

1:10:49I think, right, because that source material already exists and I haven't read the book, I think really you can stay true to that version of your story and probably when you're going to do that, you really should. But there is something about... He obviously feels some kind of obligation to having children and not wanting to make that. Yeah, that's weird. It is in general. Just to be clear, first of all, he doesn't need to let his kids watch it, right? Exactly. It's 18 rated. So you can have American Horror Story, right? You can have gore and murder, you can have monster, but you can't have a little bit of rumpy-pumpy.

1:11:24It's insane. It's a ridiculous explanation for it. And I was really pleased that the journalist brought it up because if you've read the book, it's the most surprising thing about the adaptation, which in every other way is great, but that is a real issue, I think, for those of us who read the book. And people who know Bret Easton Ellis himself, and the other thing I wanted to say quickly, then we can move on, is Bret Easton Ellis talked about the whole creation of the show in depth in his podcast, which is behind a paywall, so people might not have heard him. Do you remember I was saying that he was more heavily involved than I thought when he co-wrote episodes one and two with Ryan Murphy?

1:11:57That's not actually what happened. He wrote those episodes when it was an HBO project. And it was an HBO project for quite a long time with Luca Guadagnino. Great. Attached as director. Extraordinary pronunciation. We carry on. Thank you. Luca Guadagnino's. And he was going to direct the whole thing. And then that collapsed because I think they wouldn't pay him enough or whatever. and so Bret Easton-Eyes wrote those episodes for that version and what happened was Ryan Murphy came along and said I'm going to take it over I'm going to turn it around I'm going to make it into a thing and Bret Easton-Eyes I'll find you have it and then he has adapted Bret Easton-Eyes his original scripts so they didn't collaborate together on them he just took Bret's original scripts and added his stuff to them I think I think I would just say that creators and artists have seasons of their life lives which inform their work and that is acceptable oh no I'm not complaining about that bit by the way I've now moved on to the...

1:12:49Okay, well, I just... I know that you both think it's outrageous now that he's because he doesn't have kids, but I just think sometimes... I don't know, I just... I can kind of... I can kind of understand. He's like, oh, mate, I just don't want... He doesn't want to do that kind of stuff anymore. Yes, it sounds insane because of his back catalogue, but I don't know. It's not that wild. It is. Wild is stupid. That's what it is. If he wants to go back and bring back Glee, then I'm all for it. I'm just saying. That was exactly a season which informed, you know, you know... Although someone does get pregnant.

1:13:17from sitting in a jacuzzi. Okay, fine. I mean, that is a big worry as well as falling down holes. I mean, it definitely is. Look, let Boyd have his porn. Make TV porny again. Yeah, thank you. No, you've... I'm sure the next Ryan Murphy thing that he hasn't been, like, you know, the next Lizzie Borden thing or whatever will probably be Have you seen the trailer for that? Yes. Wow. The trailer's very good, yeah. It is fantastic. Of course, Charlie Hunnam's back in that as well from playing Ed Gein in the absolutely ridiculous... Yes, we all hated that, but I think Lizzie is going to be a redemption.

1:13:49I think it's going to be a redemption. Do you know what? There are two Ryan Murphy shows within a week of each other. The new American Horror Story and then a week later is Lizzie Ball and they're both arriving within a week of each other on American television. I assume they will be here. That good old kid-friendly Ryan Murphy. Yeah, exactly. Can I share some Taylor Sheridan news? Have you seen He's Got a Book Out? No. No. Do you know what it's called? I'm Brilliant and I've Got Lots of Money. You'll never guess. Fuck You, I Can Do What I Want. No. it's called How Not to Die in Prison by Taylor Sheridan.

1:14:19Love it. Okay. And it is exactly what it sounds like. It is a survival guide for people going to prison. Because he was in prison? No. No, because How does he know? Because he because if you watch like I do Mayor of Kingstown not East Town if you watch it you'll understand he knows a lot about this kind of shit. Yeah, and it's actually got a colon in there it's How Not to Die in Prison colon a survival guide. Wow. Wow. So if you, if either of you feel like you're going to get sent down doing time. It's quite a niche. You know, Steph, for example, for your review of The Vampala Stat. If you end up in...

1:14:51I'm just going to... Right, he did the line draw. He did the line draw. Yeah, he has on... I'm going to count them. Five separate occasions. Do you know what it is? It's a fucking disgrace. It is. Look, if you end up in the clink, then you'll be wanting Taylor Sheridan's book. Do you know what, James? I'm going to say something to you now, okay? I never finished The West Wing. Oh my God. This is too lazy to bring this up now. You know, I'm sorry, he hurt me, and now I have to hurt him. Let's park that. That is so upsetting, I can't even be friends with you anymore. But let's move on from that.

1:15:22So, basically, he wrote this, I wrote it with heavy air quotes for this audio podcast, a guy called Tom Nelson who did do time. And my understanding is that he has essentially written the book, and Taylor Sheridan has put his name on it, and he's essentially helping him publish it. So I think he's helping this guy get his book out there, because now it's by Taylor Sheridan, everyone wants to read it, whereas if it was just by Tom Nelson, people wouldn't want to read it. I'm going to take a look at that. Well, I read a review of it, and it was reviewed by a con, by a guy who was in prison, who was saying whether or not he thought it was accurate.

1:15:52Well, I thought that was actually an ingenious bit of reviewing. I can't remember what a magazine is. They got a con to review the book on how to survive in prison. Geoffrey Archer, didn't you? I think they went to different prisons. Oh, okay. Yeah. I think this is more of a supermax type experience rather than whatever country club that Geoffrey Archer ended up in. Well, Mayor of Kingsdown is basically that. It's kind of like all the moving and shaking and how you do keep certain people alive in prison and all the kind of moving of the chess pieces. Oh, you said Mare of Kings Town, didn't you?

1:16:20I heard Mare of East Town. Did you say Mare of East Town? Do you hate me today? Like, what? I was saying, I don't remember that happening in Mare of East Town at all. Did I say Mare of East Town? I don't know. I don't know. I'm just gaslighting you at this point. The Mare of East Town. The Mare of East Town. For the second time, I was... Steph has quit again. Shall we... Okay, before... This is anarchy. Now we're going to have to do a massive tonal shift now. As I say, our final story. We should mention Hayden Panettiere, who did die this week at the age of 36. Absolutely tragic. Most famous for her role as Claire in Heroes, Save the Cheerleaders, Save the World.

1:16:55She was also in Nashville, which was a massive hit as well. She'd been in a bunch of other things. She was in the Scream films, Scream 4, and I want to say 6 as well. She did a TV movie where she played Amanda Knox too. She was really good. she had some you know difficult stuff in her background we don't really know the circumstances around her death and you know there's lots of ghoulish stuff going on there people trying to talk about it and figure it all out I think we should all parkle that I think it's very very sad it's very sad and when you get such a gifted actor that dies young it's just what you're not going to see all the brilliant roles they're never going to do it's just it's so sad and she was brilliant I loved Heroes and yeah it's just It's just desperately sad.

1:17:39Desperately sad situation. Yeah. I mean, 36, I mean, it's unbelievable. 36, yes. It's nothing, isn't it? It's like nothing. Yeah. That is the end of news, and let's move on to this week's reviews, shall we? And first up, we have The Terror, Devil in Silver on Sky Atlantic. It's been a while, actually, since AMC's The Terror, Last Grace, Last Greens. So, lest we forget, this show started in 2018 with the first season, which was like an icy polar expedition. Then it came back in 2019 for that tale of World War II internment camps. And now it's seven years later, well, six and a half, it's come back with this adaptation of Victor LaValle's acclaimed 2012 horror novel, The Devil in Silver.

1:18:22And this has Dan Stevens, and he's sectioned and incarcerated in a 90s New York mental institution that may or may not be under otherworldly influences. And speaking of people under otherworldly influences, to tell us about this is our devil in Pilot TV Yellow, Boyd Hilton. Thank you. This is weird. This is a weird one. I don't know what... Because you're right. So, the previous two terrors... Yes. One of them was set in the icy... Yes. ...landscape of somewhere. Yes. It was very Shackleton. Very Shackleton. That was the second one, wasn't it? That was the first one. That was the first one? What was the second one?

1:18:56The second one was Japanese internment camps and supernatural stuff. So, what's really linking them? there's like three horror stories they seem to have an anchor in history yes but sort of inspired by something historical and this is partly inspired by the defunding of the mental health sector in America specifically here in New York in the 90s that seems to be it but it's also then based on this novel so it's loosely it's tenuous it's very tenuous my point is you could have not been the terror anything you could have just been devil in silver and it would have made perfect sense as a limited series on its own starring Dan Stevens.

1:19:32Now, I think the whole Dan Stevens story is brilliant because he obviously, he most famous is Downton Abbey. And he left Downton Abbey. Cousin Matthew. Cousin Matthew. And he left that show. And he's since gone on to Hollywood stardom and doing some of the most bizarre projects. And there's a famous incident when he was on This Morning. And he kind of said something that was almost rude or laughing. Google it, you'll see it. Dan Stevens This Morning. But he's such an entertaining, fun guy. and he chooses products that are also really entertaining and fun and this is quite a wild premise. Basically, it's one of those stories that I find really frustrating and infuriating but that's the whole point of it.

1:20:13So this poor guy who just wants to buy a drum kit worth four grand. I know, I was like, where is he getting this drum kit from? That's really expensive. Are they? I think drum kit's quite expensive. Four grand? Is it four or three? Much to the fury of his partner anyway. So you fell for the marketing it was three nine nine nine. Oh, that's me all day. You want to get a Lego one for... So anyway, he flies in the face of his partner and buys this fucking drum kit, which is idiotic of him. Fair enough. Yeah, but he's trying to start a new business. In his defence. I feel like the drum kit isn't really essential to the plot.

1:20:45We're getting hung up on the drums. It's kind of essential in a way. Is it? Well, then he goes to see her, and meanwhile she's attacked by her ex. Her abusive ex-husband. Her abusive ex-husband. And he intervenes, and there's this big fighting going on with cops that arrive who aren't dressed as cops. It's all very weird. But the bottom line is he gets arrested and taken to this institution, this psychiatric institution, in the most bizarre set of circumstances. All he did was, you know, try and step in and intervene on behalf of his partner. And then he's then kind of like, suddenly in the middle of this one-foot-over-the-cuckoo's-nest style institution, full of people with major issues, including half the staff as far as I can make out and then it's all about yeah what the weird goings on because it starts off I forgot about the opening scene is a kind of horrendous scene weirdly darkly comic scene yeah exactly where they're wheeling out a corpse and they have to break the bones of the corpse to fit it through the door somehow there was an easier way I'm sure there would have been an easier way of doing it by the way but it's it's deliberately infuriating and frustrating because immediately you're in a the you're in an unjust situation where his poor Dan Stevens character should not be in this institution at all, should be nowhere near it, and yet somehow the police have got some kind of agreement with the dodgy guy who runs the whole place, that they're just going to bring in people for him to institutionalise and claim have mental health issues whether they have or not, so the whole thing has a really infuriating vibe, but deliberately so, and I completely went for it, I was like, oh my god, I'm really praying for Dan Stevens and they very cleverly put in one character one of the cops turns out to have pity for him and has issues and I thought that was really interesting because you'd think all the cops would sit together all the people are kind of like he has to deal with so that added another element a human element to it that I thought was really clever but bottom line is by the end of it I was gripped I think it is kind of really well done and it is quite scary this I thought this opening episode because I go I see all the horror films and you know watch all the horror TV shows I thought this was genuinely more scary than most horror films I see like we took and they're in love yeah I thought the whole I won't give anything away but the last scene I thought was really effective and scary and I thought the psychological element of it was very clever okay but see I didn't find it scary at all I found it rage inducing oh my god oh yeah but deliberately but deliberately because the unfairness of it is so acute where he hasn't I mean yes he has punched a man in the face to be fair the guy was asking for it but that's neither here nor there and he gets in a fight with the police, but to be fair, they're plain clothes, they're undercover, they don't really identify themselves.

1:23:28It's a grey area as to whether or not he's really committed a crime. And then they can't be bothered to book him, so they just drop him off at this institution and have him committed, and then he's forcibly medicated. I think the bit that kind of winds you up is the bit that nobody's listening to him. And they're forcing him to take medication because that's the procedure, and you have to take it, or you're deemed non-compliant and then you can't leave. And so he just has to go along with it and you know that speaks to i mean victorian mental style salams over here you know notorious for this kind of stuff so all of that is is very upsetting and then you've got this is it or is it not supernatural and he has to manage his own inner demons and of course potentially actual demons um but i didn't find it scary oh okay at all okay well i'm i'm surprised i mean i'm gonna give you a list of the scary things after this because i don't want to yeah because there was lots going I you know like along with my biggest fear of falling down an unmarked hole one of my is that your biggest fear one of my biggest fears is falling I've spoken about this before specifically unmarked hole you know a hole you know when you see people that just like walk along and then they fall down a hole because they're on the phone because there's a hole it's unmarked and then you fall down it and then you cut it out what kind of marking are we talking about you know normally when there's a big hole somewhere but like if you're on an island or something and there's a big gaping hole and you don't you don't see it for some reason you fall down that hole so you're saying therefore they wouldn't have access to bollards.

1:24:51Exactly. Where are all these islands with gaping holes? There are so many people who've done holes. We've had this conversation before. It's a real fear of mine. Anyway, one of my other fears is somehow getting into a situation where I'm completely misunderstood. Yeah, that's everyone's fear. Well, I'm living it. Let's not rush. That was a brilliant bit of kind of man, not mansplaining, just mans intervention. I don't know what your issue is with me, but I'm starting to think that half of the I'll give you a clue it rhymes with button lunch except it doesn't because lunch and lunch don't really rhyme but it's neither here nor there what a terrible thing to try and make but you know what I knew what you meant so I'm not going to call the opposite because I'm nice right okay you know getting into that situation specifically in that kind of institution where you're then medicated so you're actually out of your own mind so you can't like oh my god that scares the shit out of me okay right Right, so this kind of, this preyed on, like, my, and apparently everyone's deepest fears of being misunderstood.

1:25:55And, like, you know, the whole idea of, like, you're screaming but no one hears you, which happens in this and is very frightening. The other thing that I liked about this was there was a, I don't want to give away too much, but there's a Widow's Bay-esque element to the institution, which I think, yeah, do you know what I mean? Which I really enjoyed. And the fact that there's a whole other, there's a whole, like, the institution, there's something about the institution that is otherworldly, which is obviously the supernatural element to it. Yeah, Dan Stevens, I think he's kooky and brilliant, and he does make really interesting choices, acting choices, and this is one of them.

1:26:34I'm completely drawn into it, loved it, and I thought it was very scary. And I'm definitely going to watch the rest of it. I liked it. I did like it. I just didn't find it particularly scary. The scene, the final scene. Yes. Which, by the way, has a thing in it that I do have issues with using this way, this thing. No spoilers. I can't spoil it yet. I can't really explain what I mean. But I found it really distressing, that final scene. You know what I mean? I understand what you are saying. There's a lot of corridors. Oh, yeah. God, this really speaks to your corridor hatred. It really does. It is very corridor heavy.

1:27:08Very corridor heavy. So that last scene, which is in a corridor. Yeah. It is great. It is great. Highly stylized. Someone also falls through a hole. Yeah. Oh, my God. Everyone's fear is represented. I found that really scary because it's, you know, I thought that was quite a kind of big leap to make in a show to do what it does in the corridor. And I found it genuinely, yeah, disturbing maybe more than scary, but scary at the same time. I thought it was a bit Twin Peaks-y, which I really enjoyed. Did you do a little bit? A little bit of that influence. It doesn't have the, I mean, it has quirky characters, but it is literally an asylum.

1:27:42So that kind of, it's par for the course, I would say. and there are definitely quirky people in there who have been lots of and the argument of course being that while Dan Stevens' character maybe shouldn't be there a lot of the others look like they probably should or should they or should they well yeah exactly we shall see yes yeah no like I say I enjoyed it and I thought he was really good CCH Pounder obviously brilliant in everything CCH Pounder's on a roll she's been in Lotus obviously CCH Pounder has been on a roll for decades I know I know but she's just always good but will you carry on watching it of course that's the question no just no we should watch it should we watch it oh yeah but crucially I'm not saying it's bad at all I actually you know I thought it was pretty good but not enough to draw me in I thought this episode we're talking about Furious which I need to carry on with even though even though you've doubled down on Furious I only doubled down on the first episode okay oh that is true you did and then you said the second one was better yeah yeah and I need to carry on watching it but I thought this first episode was better than that first episode yeah yeah it's not a bad first episode at all but yeah Yeah, like, you know, like, what was the, you know, the Institute, that one?

1:28:46Yes. That, I don't know, something about that. Yeah, that seized me. Yeah, that was really good. And I really had to see what happened in that. With this, I have not felt seized. Okay. But I'd be interested to hear. I'd like you guys to persevere with it and let me know if you think I should. You can be my canaries in the coal mine. Do you not care about Dan Stevens' character enough? Not massively. I mean, he has an exceptional array of heavy metal T-shirts. But beyond that, no. Okay, I think that's the disconnect here. Yeah. Okay, I'll let you know how he gets on. Okay, do keep me posted. Right, anyway, the terror, Devil in Silver, which is on Sky Atlantic.

1:29:22When, Boydie? Oh, Sunday. It just started yesterday then. Sunday, 23rd of August, nine o 'clock, which means I think the whole thing will be on Sky. Oh, good. Then you can watch your head easily. Yeah. Next up, we have a dog park on you, which I am told is a real channel. Is this the case? So you is the overall, this is boring, but it's useful to explain. You is the overall title for UK TV's streaming service. So it's like they're equivalent of now. Did they run out of ideas? Like, what happened? We discussed this before. So you and then the specific channels became you and Anabai. Yes, you and drama, you and Alibi, all that stuff.

1:29:56But some of their content is not assigned to a specific channel and is just available to stream. And this is an example of it, and it's just on you rather than you and another thing. All right, I'm going to have to stage an intervention at this point, right? Can we not have a situation where you end up with these ridiculous Abbott and Costello kind of conversations where you say, where's it on? Oh, it's on now. No, it's on now. No, it's not on now. It's on now. It's what, now? Now? And it's like, where is it? It's on you. It's on me. No, not you. It's on you. Not on me. But, you know, it's like, please do not have confusing generic terms which make it very difficult to talk about where something is shown because it's just maddening.

1:30:29Do you know what would help with that? If you put a definite article in front of it and just called it The You. Called it The You. Do you know what? That actually would help. When it was Now TV, it wasn't a problem. But when they rebranded it Now, it became maddening. This whole you business has to stop. You mean the you? The you. The you must be stopped. I happen to be hosting the session at the Edinburgh TV Festival in a week's time with the UK TV hierarchy. Fabulous. And I will say, James... On my behalf, lodge an official complaint. Can you tell them I like them? Because I'm just going to say this.

1:30:59They have the most easy screening preview service known to man. Can I also say, by the way, James, I should tell you this. This is absolutely true. Is it a secret? No, no. We are whispering. Just to emphasize, I believe most of the higher-ups at UKTV listen to this podcast. Oh, so you don't need to tell them. Because they've literally already heard. Yeah, but they've already... I'm going to throw them an idea. Right here, right here, right now. A new channel is dedicated to, I don't know, I don't know what it's about, but it's you and me. And that would be... Oh, I mean, yeah. Maybe they'll go for it.

1:31:30Maybe it's like some sort of reality thing and it's just called you and me. Yeah. I think it just stays you are and thanks for having a great preview system. That's all I'd say. Anyway, what we're reviewing is... Had you actually introed the review? I don't know. Anyway, so Dog Pop, which is on you, which is, as we have established, and as we, of course, all knew, a real channel. This is an Australian comedy slash drama, and it is about people walking their dogs, wait for it, in a park. In other words, this is a series that was quite possibly designed in a lab specifically to appeal to Stephanie Seeland.

1:32:04Isn't that right? Designed in a lab, no pun intended.

1:32:10absolutely look you know absolutely it's made for me because there is nothing like watching a dog running it with unbridled joy right there is nothing and this whole this this opens on on basically a lovely long shot of a dog running is it a hush puppy i think it's a hush puppy Yeah, it is a hush puppy. Let's call them that. Yeah, it's a hush puppy. Do they have another name? They have a breed name, but I think it's cute. It's a hush puppy. Okay, so this is an Aussie comedy. I'm very into Aussies at the moment, you know, with all my brilliant career and Colin from McCartney. I'm just very into them.

1:32:50And it's just wonderful. And the reason it's wonderful is because it's not about a dog lover. It's about somebody who doesn't really like his dog, Beattie, right? Who is of doodle origins. It's some kind of doodle shih tzu cross, like a shit doodle or something. Okay, so basically, you know the other thing that I love, and I know that Boyd loves this, I love a disgruntled sort of middle-aged man. I mean, you do a podcast with two of them. Exactly. If I didn't, we wouldn't be here. And Roland is kind of a disgruntled man. He's something, you know, there's problems at home, and he's been left in a situation where he needs to, he's got a daughter at home and he's got a dog, he's got his dog, BT.

1:33:33And he needs to walk this dog, right? You know, his wife has said, you know, make sure you walk the dog. And he's like, yeah. He doesn't have a relationship with his dog. God knows why. So why? Because it's her dog, her and her daughter's dog. Yeah. So he comes at it from a different angle of, yeah, but if your dog is in your house, you just love it, don't you? But anyway, he comes, it's a different angle in that this is a love story. This is a love story about how a man is going to, please God, eventually fall in love with this dog. Now, I've only watched one episode, and the only reason I've only watched one episode is because there weren't any more available.

1:34:06But there were so many great other little details of a disgruntled man in this. There was a great scene where he's standing behind someone in a supermarket and the woman behind him is like, oh, hold on a minute, I've just got to run back at you. I'm that woman. We've all been there. I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry. Can I just go to that thing? She runs back to get something and he's so infuriated and then he slowly puts down all his food and stuff and he's like, oh God, I love those little, anything like that that's drawing on real life, I just, it's great comedy for me. People like that should be forcibly evicted from the supermarket.

1:34:40I am that person. I am literally that person. And I'm like, I'm so sorry, can I just grab that? I'm so sorry. Yeah, there are elements of dog safety and jeopardy in this first episode. So just, you know, dog lovers, just beware. But the key to this is that he meets Sam, who is BT, the dog's auntie, and she wants him to come and join their little community of dog walkers. She has a relationship with his wife and they obviously meet and they get a lot out of. As you do, let me just tell you, if you are feeling anything of like, you want to speak to people, get a dog, go out on a dog walk, it is the best thing.

1:35:23You will get all the local gossip. It's wonderful. And that's what really, the heart of this is really about. it's about community and whether he's having a midlife crisis and what is going to happen and is this dog going to bring him together with some people that he desperately really needs in his life so it's tender it's beautiful and it's got a shit load of dogs in it so I am all in I loved it Can I ask a question? You can ask all the questions What does he do? He's a careers advisor Is that what he is? Yeah I kind of couldn't for some reason it passed me by that exactly he was talking to all these different people Well that's the brilliant irony of his character is that he's a careers advisor in a midlife crisis.

1:35:59Right, okay. I was nearly a careers advisor. Oh God, horrific. I filled out a questionnaire when I left university to find out what career I should have. And you said careers, that's fine. And at the end of it, it gave me two options. Do you know what they were? It said, we think you would either be ideally suited to being a careers advisor. Funeral director. And the other one was a military general. Oh my God. And I was just like, those are quite different career paths. That's quite perceptive by whoever. A military. A military general. A military general. Or, I mean, presumably an army general, because you don't get them in the Navy.

1:36:33An army general or a careers advisor. I don't know quite what the overlap is there. Anyway, carry on. I sound stupid by not being able to understand what he was doing, because he was not based in one specific place. He does people online anyway. He's just in the work from home environment. That's a minor detail. Didn't you find, one of the things that I was most intrigued by the show was, right as you said you're used to you're like a grumpy middle aged man and you work with two of them right now yes please god if I ever come close anywhere near to being as big a twat as this guy is please tell me I hope I never he is he is a massive bellend he is yes he's like the way not forgetting how he treats the fucking dog he's drinking too much and then leaves the back door open the poor dog wander off anywhere and god knows what happened the way he talks to his daughter his teenage daughter the way he talks to his fucking wife he was infuriated he's awful but he's going to be healed I know he is but this is my point this is my point okay go I thought it was fascinating the extent to which they spent this first episode establishing his bellendery and the depths of his bellendery which are vast and on the one hand you're right this annoying woman in front of him in the supermarket deserves everything she got and there's people who slurp their tea oh my god which is all very Ricky Gervais if you talk to him about things that annoy him daily events that annoy him it's classic some of them are literally from a Gervais live show I'm not saying they stole them but they're the kind of observations he makes but the way he deals with nice decent people and normal people that he encounters the people from the fucking dog park for a start it's just grotesque and they really push to the limit is my point for me his bellendery and I guess that the payoff is if he is going to then by the time we get through the rest of this series, he'll have fallen in love with one of the dog park women.

1:38:26That's what they're setting up. Oh, no, I hope not. Oh, I think so, for sure. You think? I think his redemption arc... The relationship between him and his wife is painful. Yeah, it's fractured. But I think the redemption arc is furry. I think it's not... Yeah, I don't know that you can have a redemption arc by having an affair. That doesn't feel like it's a redemption arc. That's what I'm saying. It's not a redemption arc. I think the redemption arc is... Oh, no, the redemption arc bit is dog-based. I'm saying there will be a lot... There's five episodes to go. It's not just going to be him frolicking with dogs.

1:38:49It might be harmless flirting. You don't know. I think there's already harmless flirting between him and the auntie of the dog. And I think that's one of the cruxes of the situation. But I just thought it was very interesting how far they went with his character. I thought his character was almost unbearable. And I never have issues with unrelatable characters. But I think that's the thing that hooks you because I ascribe to the... I ascribe to like you... You literally... I do not trust humans who don't like dogs but I always trust a dog if they don't like a human. right so I live by that I think it's right like if you're a dog and they're like ooh you're like no that's a wrong one right okay if you get a human they're like oh I just don't like dogs you're like ooh no you're a wrong one yeah absolutely and he didn't and he's a wrong one and he is a wrong one and I think they made him peak wrong one and there is a tiny little bit where he does you know where he does let the dog out and stuff like that where you see him starting to break and I think that's going to be the joy of this series I thought it was great because he co-wrote it Leon Ford who plays that character co-wrote it as well and I just thought it was brave to push him that far to push the character that far into unlikeability yeah but now you need to see the art now you need to see him come back yeah still James James oh god weirdly I had exactly the same reaction Boyd did and now it could be because he just hit a little bit too close to home that's entirely possible but his bellendry was excruciating to the point where I just wanted him to get mauled by one of the dogs in the park genuinely I was like just eat him like honestly I cannot bear another minute in his company I want him to die.

1:40:16And that, for me, was a deal-breaker, because I think it is fine to have a bellend with the redemption art, right? Remember, you mentioned Ricky Gervais, but him in Afterlife, he's a massive bellend. But there's something rootable for that character from the get-go, even though he's being a twat. Part of it is because he's grieving, obviously. But in this cast, what you have here, to borrow a phrase from Othello, motiveless bellendery, where he's just a cock, and there's no real reason for it, nothing's really happened to him, this is just who he is. That you know of. Right, sure. But at that point, I said, I don't care about your redemption, because I don't think you deserve redemption.

1:40:53You are awful to your wife, you are awful to your daughter, you are awful to everyone else, and you are crucially awful to the dog. But don't you want to see how the dog saves him? Because this is a story about, as I've said, the healing power of a four-pawed person, right? Yes. Okay? So is that not the motivation? like he's such a shit but nobody can resist a dog. I mean, possibly I'd watch a spin-off about the dog. BT. Right. But I don't think... And there are lots of lovely dogs in this and there are all sorts of different ones. There's a bulldog. Lots of different mates. Lots of different types of dogs.

1:41:30But one specific breed of Bellend. And I cannot sanction this buffoonery. Okay. Yeah, I would have carried on watching if they'd given it... I think actually Kay got a second episode. Did she? Yeah, I think so. She talked about, I remember her saying to me how surprised she was about the horrendous nature of his cat. I think it's, I'm just saying it's brave. I'm in it for the dogs. To go that far with him. Basically, you've got 23 minutes, 24 minutes of absolute, as James says, belendry and horribleness. And then he finally relents and he goes to the dog park with his dog. And even then, it's half-assed.

1:42:05Exactly. So it's just, it's quite a brave thing to do to take his cat that far. I just think I think for me it's nice I want to see how this unfolds and how he is broken and you know by the love of something furry well keep us posted I won't this will be my last podcast so I will not be keeping you posted the dog park that's right the dog parks then did you say the dog park oh yes no it was it was deliberate I don't know about that that was deliberately targeted Moggory the dog parks then on you real channel when boy today arrives today Monday 24th of August it's also on Channel 4's website channel4.com that's confusing just to confuse you there's a lot UK TV has an agreement with Channel 4 so a lot of its content they share a lot of content with this UK TV including this little agreements it's very confusing also something that we kind of touched on here but this is kind of positioned as a comedy it is a comedy by the narrowest of narrow margins there is a little bit of like comedy of awkwardness in it but it's really a drama a short drama I've said this before and I'll say it again.

1:43:11I think they're trying to make a comedy. Do you think? I think it's a comedy. What, I'm just failing? To somebody, in the first episode, it's a bit much, but I think they think the bit muchness is what makes it a comedy. Oh, right. I think it is a comedy. It has a slight tone to it. They just adopted not to go for a joke. You know what that tone is? Comedy. Yeah, absolutely. He's sitting there going, right, I'm going to really ratchet up the nastiness like that. It's going to be really funny and everyone's going to think it's really funny. I'm like, I think actually you've gone too far if I was giving him notes, tone it down a bit.

1:43:36Okay, well, I think you too are too far, frankly. But it's definitely meant to be comedy, bottom line. Okay. Okay, and speaking of comedies, we move on to our next show this week, which is Fightland on Sky Atlantic, which sees a championship boxer locked up after beating someone to death, only to end up on a rip-roaring rampage of revenge. The first rule of Fightland is, unexpectedly, the boy must talk about Fightland. Thank you. This is like Gangs of London, right? but Gangs of London is done in a very cinematic kind of epic way and part of its ongoing kind of success, I think there's another season of it to come actually, is its ambition in the set pieces that it has in it, action set pieces and big shocks and surprises and twists and this feels like a very similar show.

1:44:24Literally there are Gangs of London, Gangs of London in the show and part of it is all about this crime family that uses its boxing promoting activity to actually deal drugs and gambling. Do proper crimes. Do proper crimes. And that is going to be exposed by our, in quotes, hero, who's the former British boxer, Duke Hero, played by Howard Charles, who in the very first scene, we see winning the World Heavyweight Championship. Unfortunately, he's then attacked by representatives of these gangsters and his brother gets killed. This is all in the first five minutes, by the way. It's not a spoiler.

1:45:00it's the premise of the story then he ends up in prison and then seconds later flash forward to the present day when he's out of prison it's unclear how much time he did for the murder I think it's about they say eight years do they? no they do they do make reference to it how long was it? I think it I was going to say six six or whichever early release scheme actually no there's another reason there is another yeah no it is eight I think it's eight eight okay and then he is back in London and he and he swears revenge on those who killed his brother. You know what you needed? Taylor Sheridan's book.

1:45:32It's a new Taylor Sheridan's book. Well, actually, I think he got through it without Taylor Sheridan's book. He could write his own book. It'd be fine. So it's kind of, on the one hand, I was expecting this to be a boxing drama, like the TV equivalent of the myriad boxing-based films that there have been, you know, every other year there's a new, whether it's Creed or Rocky, all of those. But actually, there's not much boxing in it at all. After that opening sequence, which is literally a boxing match, it then becomes the Gangs of London thing. And boxing, the boxing element becomes a very minor kind.

1:46:04It's just the backdrop, really, of the whole thing. So it wasn't what I was expecting. And I think one of the problems with it is, on one level, it's perfectly entertaining. It's got a couple of twists that make it feel vaguely compelling. I'm trying. But it's the comparison with Gangs of London. I can't get it out of my head. it's too similar in the subject matter and not as good as that show. And one of the weirdest elements of why it's not as good as that show, this is all, by the way, produced by Fiddy Cent. Fiddy, yeah. Who has his own gangster, a whole load of gangster shows that he's got on the go that have been going for years now on American TV.

1:46:45I think for Starz, this is the Starz, the kind of channel that specialises in sex and violence. And he's got loads, and this is his big British kind of version of that, I think is the kind of, is where it all comes from. but also weirdly it's not that violent or sexy either no weirdly not what do you mean it's not violent that is just wrong well no it has it has one very violent scene quite early on yeah and then after that it's relatively benign compared to Gangs of London which is super violent yeah it's a whole other level in fact so is the raunch I keep complaining about not enough yeah Boydie you seem to be quite porn star but do you know what I mean in comparison to Gangs of London again it's just it feels less adult, less sophisticated.

1:47:28And my final complaint about it, I didn't hate it, but equally, I'm not going to carry on watching it, is it's got this weird glossy style, which I think is very much in the 50th century from what I've seen of those shows, right? I don't know if you've seen more than a fan. But it's got this quite, and it's got this kind of slick, slightly unreal quality to the lighting and the cinematography. It's a bit like 80s soap, like Dallas dinnership kind of quality to it, if you know what I mean. and that put me off I didn't go for that because it's weirdly uncinematic that style even though the people who directed it that worked on it have worked on Peaky Blinders and really good stuff and Gangs of London I noticed Otto Bathurst Otto Bathurst who is one of the most cinematic of all TV directors of recent times but for some reason he can't escape the way this is shot and filmed and the cinematography I did not like that element of it so I didn't hate it I don't think it's terrible but I didn't love it right strap in people I've got a lot of notes Steph watch it the whole show no no no I've got a lot of notes okay two words for you Hollyoaks special oh my god two words you don't necessarily want to hear if you've spent gazillions of dollars on a TV show I'm going to set on my stool here I love did you either of you watch Power 50 Cent Philly's Power I'm a massive Power fan is it Power book one two three four or five it was absolutely brilliant right so i was primed for this because i i like his shows and i really want to like this and if you watch the trailer you kind of get the feeling oh this like oh this is good this is i thought oh this will be up my street this is good because i like his productions and it's great and oh god okay so i i'm i want it to be good but it's not it's just not slick enough this is not slick enough the production values aren't good enough there's something horrendous and I and I hate to say this because I you know if there wasn't really amazing British gangster dramas the aforementioned then I think oh god is it just that I got this thing about stuff like I feel like it needs to be an American accent to be slicker and be more authentic you know and especially I don't know I it's not that because we can do the we can have British gangsters and it can be really authentic and brilliant and compelling.

1:49:49I found the dialogue really hammy. I just didn't enjoy it. Even like the fight and death scenes, I just was like, there's at one point, you know, literally the blood spurting out of the neck and I just thought, come on. I just, I'm not, I'm not in for that. I love Nicholas Pinnock. He plays Kingsley, who's kind of the promoter guy. and I just I don't love him in this I think he's doing his best in something that I just don't think well he also disappears quite quickly yeah but he's you know we'll see whether he comes back I thought it was ultra I thought the violence was at the beginning it was a lot actually and I didn't really like it the one scene there were also I have to say this and I hope they don't make the final cut there was a couple of racial slurs in it that I didn't I really didn't like and I know obviously we watch a lot of drama but there was just a couple of things and they didn't sit well with me the way that they were put into the script.

1:50:50The other thing is there's a point where he's in prison and it's kind of within the first 10 minutes and a kind of non-specific but some kind of European baddie says, we can sort this all out. And I was like, God, no. This just is like, it's not for me. I didn't enjoy it. Yeah, I don't know. that I have anything really great to say about it. I'm sorry, because I want to like it. I want to like it, but I don't think the script is very good. I think it's very hammy. I think the sheen on it is absolutely off. The lingering looks are horrendous. Yeah, I just, the baddies, the blood squirts, I just really did not like it at all.

1:51:39I didn't like it. And I'm sorry, enough. right I've got I just want to make it clear that I've got absolutely nothing against Hollyoaks okay but this is not positioning itself as a Hollyoaks special but it comes it's bringing big Hollyoaks special energy okay that's all I'm saying I don't think that's I mean it's maybe a bit unfair but it's not that unfair like I know what you mean I was really disappointed I am too I saw the synopsis for that oh yes I'm really looking forward to this it's exactly one like a gritty London gangster drama I got boxings Nicholas Pennington and it great stuff yeah not very good it's not is it no it's not it's not compelling the performances aren't aren't exactly on point and also just the plotting is quite clumsy as well it is it's clunky isn't it yeah it's a bit on the nose it's a bit you know basic and I I got to the end of this first episode I've got to be honest it was a bit of a slog as well I struggled to get to the end of the first episode I didn't watch any more like who knows maybe it turns into some magnificent feast in episode two I doubt it though it's not going to get the production values though is it no it's not got it hasn't got a sheet it's got a like exactly it's strange it is strange it's not a good look literally no it isn't exactly apparently in episode 4 I think I was reading loads of stuff happens there's loads of twists and turns and that's like but I'm not sure about we'll get to episode 4 the set up for the twists is so obvious in the first episode right I mean you must know what I'm thinking like he comes back and meets the woman that he was having you know that scene is so badly done it's so badly done and I was almost cringing to myself and mostly because exactly what you said I'm disappointed because I want to like this I want this to be really good but I don't know whether 50 Cent's ever watched Hollyoaks so I'm just not sure it seems doubtful I think he's a big fan but he doesn't like to talk about it I think he enjoyed Biker Grove back in the day oh but listen Biker Grove's amazing but sorry James I cut you off go on no I had nothing else oh you didn't no nothing at all the first rule of Fightland is unfortunately do not watch Fightland yeah it's a shame it's a real shame anyway it's on Skyland and now from Thursday the 27th of August at 9 o 'clock.

1:53:42Do you know what else is on? Tell us, Boydie, tell us what else is on. You and Alibi. You and Alibi. Me? Me and Alibi? What have I done? Do I need an Alibi? What's happening? Wednesday 26th, 8pm. The Rainmaker, which is the... Grisham. It's about a year old, this show. It's a John Grisham adaptation of that novel, but turned into a kind of procedural, I think, legal procedural. Anyway, it's on ITV1 from Friday, the 28th of August at 9 o 'clock. there is the new series of Adults remember I think we reviewed that that kind of friends-ish sitcom American sitcom we don't think we really like that much but Series 2 is on Disney Plus on Friday and then Vigil Season 3 Series 3 is on BBC One on Sunday the 30th of August 9 o 'clock it's embargo we couldn't review it in this episode and similarly Trigger Point Season 4 I think is back on ITV One Sunday the 30th as well they're up against each other I think they've been up against each other before Yes, I think they have.

1:54:39Trigger Point, I have watched every episode of Trigger Point. Same. Every episode of it. But I struggled. It got to a bit where I felt like I was slogging through it a little bit. Yeah, maybe. So, I don't know. We'll see. This might be an amazing full season. Yeah. We'll see. More important than any of that, Dark Matter is, of course, on Apple TV+. And that is on Thursday. We're going to be doing that on this week's Pilot Plus. And perhaps most excitingly, all four seasons of Battlestar Galactica come to your beloved staff that you now subscribe to. Paramount Plus. this Thursday. Steph, yes, you can watch all four seasons of Bouncy Galactica on your Paramount+.

1:55:13Well, you and I need to watch all four seasons of Mayor of Kingstown. The Mayor of Kingstown. Yeah. Of Kingtowns. Of Kingtowns. The Mayor of Kingstowns. Oh, he's being funny. Oh, shut up. He's being silly. Honestly. I'm not giving you any of my sweeties. I mean, that's almost certainly for the best. Anyway, we've got to wrap up because I've got to go. You've got to go. We've got to wrap up. We've got to go. And, you know, we can feel the Novichok kicking in. It's time to go for a lie down, I think. That's it for this week's Pilot TV podcast. If you enjoyed it, I hope so. Please leave us a good review, a five-star review, if you will.

1:55:49If you want to follow us on the social medias, we are at PilotTVPod or at Boyd Hilton, at Steph Sealan or Stephanie Sealan, I forget. I'm going to go with Steph. Steph Sealan. Yeah. You're no longer talking to me, but that's fine. No, I am. Or at James C. Dyer. Please increase our follower counts. And what are we going to do? we're going to do Dark Matter on Pilot Plus and then next week on the regular podcast which we're recording at some weird unorthodox time but we'll figure that stuff out what is happening next week The Gentleman comes to Netflix season two The Gentleman and then there's probably some other stuff Vigil and maybe well yes we will be doing Vigil although technically that's this week but we will do Vigil yes we will do Vigil as well I'm going on holiday stuff's going on holiday really just to get away from these two grumpy middle aged men that she works with she's going to the dog park tolerating Yes, Deb's going to the dog park.

1:56:38Very good. That's it. Pilot out.