The Testaments, 2026, and The Copenhagen Test. With guests Noah Wyle & Katherine LaNasa, Hugh Bonneville & Hugh Skinner

28:50exactly um there's some brilliant new characters there's one character um uh who uh nick castellano um who swears literally every single sentence multiple times multiple f words you um and i always thought there was a limit on the number of f words you could have in a show on the bbc but clearly not because there's loads of them i know it's quite a departure for john i was quite surprised when i saw that and um paolo who plays uh nick is as this sort of punchy new york lawyer who's corporate lawyer who's there to protect all the uh you know not only the legal interests, but mainly the American interests, is quite expletive heavy, which I think takes the slightly more gentle world of Ian Fletcher by surprise.

29:36And he has to suffer this barrage of... Everything is a sort of combative issue with that character, Nick, who's standing up for, you know, God bless America really. And then, you know, it's great because we've got Stephen Kunkin, playing the Canadian member of the team who's characteristically sort of self-deprecating and polite and basically apologising for Canada. And then you've got Yumeina who plays... What's her character called? Paul? No, Gabriela. Gabriela. Who basically thinks everything should take place in Guadalajara. And so he's defending the Mexican interests. So we have these wonderful international sort of fracture points in each meeting where vested interests are at play.

30:25But no, the character of Nick Castellano is great where everything is a sort of Soprano-esque fight. Yeah, he's hilarious. And also Nick Blood and another Brit as the brilliantly named Phil Plank, who's an ex-footballer. He's so good at names, isn't he? I think he's very... Phil Plank, I think he's claimed to fame that he once played against one of the Neville's when he was coming back from injury in a second team and is sort of completely overawed when the prospect of meeting David Beckham comes on the horizon. So he taps into a certain type of British football pundit almost and Nick is brilliantly deadpan at playing it.

31:10He does such an extraordinarily pained look in episode one or two. He's so brilliant. Yeah, reaction shots are key, aren't they? and these and it must take ages it must take hours to film because there are a lot of meetings i mean you know we're used to seeing these meetings to us but they get up to get all the reaction shots and to get everyone's close-ups and they must take hours to film those yeah it does i mean to be honest i've never in the meetings i'm normally lurking waiting to come in with something like uh madly trying to listen and work out where my cue is but yeah it does take a look they've got it down to a fine art now they have two if not three cameras on the go but it is I mean considering we were filming supposedly in Miami where everything would be air conditioned within an inch of its life we were filming in an old print factory in North London which had never heard of air conditioning and we were literally in 100 degrees it was unbearable so how the camera team survived we could at least nip out into an icebox every so often but they were there sweating away all day, but they were brilliant and very efficient.

32:17But yeah, they have certain passes where they mop up reaction shots and, you know, little snippets here and there. So it's a very, it's a very efficient machine. And in fact, our DOP this time was a, was a sort of junior cameraman in on 2012. So it's lovely that he's, he's, you know, gone up the ranks and was in a nose to show inside out. So I mean, I was willing to maintain the fiction that the show was so filmed in Miami but clearly clearly you as it wasn't so well did you when you first got the script you think oh we might be going to Miami or was that soon I did wonder yeah I think yes unfortunately no or no not unfortunately North London's lovely but no it wasn't Miami and like you said the one thing they would have in Miami is air conditioning so yes yes there was i think there was one draft of the budget where we did go to miami but that was soon changed and they realized the implications of taking a cast of miami i have to say it's seamless it's very convincing yeah all the all the sort of drone shots and the b-roll and everything else and also the way that wixie lit it um so it's quite a harsh lighting you know and you you feel that brightness in the uh certainly felt it in the room not only with 100 degree heat but also the lights um uh it sort of gives it that slightly you know that that over bright world of uh of the miami coastline when having the bits outside as well i don't know how they make that look so yeah yeah the outside there are bits of london that look like miami yeah who knew yeah um will you uh will um has its headphones in a lot of obviously he's he has at least progressed to um AirPods, isn't he?

33:55Rather than the wired ones that he has previously. Wireless, yes. He's very up with the times. What do you think he's listening to? What is he listening to on those headphones? That's what I wonder. Yeah, yes, I do as well. I mean, mainly when I've got the headphones in, I'm just trying to remember when to take them out. Because with the dialogue, that's the complicated dance of it. But no, I think he listens to a range of stuff. I think he has the radio on there i think he has some um i think he probably quite likes cold play i think you're right yeah i think you're right no sign you can rule the world one yeah yeah yeah absolutely do you aspire to obviously um yeah and also there's no sign yet of a folding bike hugh hugh bonneville is that do you think that's yeah it wouldn't look right in in the setting in miami yeah i think i don't think you get very fast cycling around uh Miami on a folding bike.

34:52I don't think it's that landscape. I rather miss the folding bike. It was such a lovely sort of totemic piece of the last two shows. And of course, the rivalry between the bike riders. This time, I think that sense of rivalry and jockeying for position is taken over really by Hugh's character and Emily, another PA, jockeying for position over coffee pods and who's allowed access to which biscuit tin. And indeed, in my case, you know, which desk is appropriate for me to sit at? I love all those little details that John etches in so that when Ian arrives, supposedly as the boss of the outfit, he's given a desk that's clearly in the middle of the bullpen.

35:32And he has to try and find a way of getting up the ladder slightly and getting a better desk. So I think audiences, I mean, you know, like with 2012 and WNA, it's not about either the Olympics or the BBC. It's about the world of the office and the dynamics between the characters there. and this isn't so this isn't you know you don't have to enjoy football to enjoy this show oh absolutely yeah there's some brilliant observations about office life aren't there um hugh s there's it's someone who does work in an office sometimes it's it's it's incredibly accurate as to the jockeying that rivalry etc yeah and your character particularly is will it gets in trouble by by picking putting some sweets on the tray with the coffee well yeah and i think the politics of all you know the internal products of all that as he was saying there with no bike anymore the the espresso machine and things have definitely replaced that and how you negotiate that with a slightly frosty colleague yeah it's fascinating yeah and ian i think is he in a little bit more assertive this time around huge you think because as you say he walks in he's not happy that he hasn't got a um an office to himself and he just takes one doesn't he just kind of walks in breathes in just grabs one yeah yes he then gradually discovers that he's actually literally filling a dead man's shoes and as he discovers more and more things around the desk and that that the that his predecessor did leave pretty rapidly vertically and and so he just discovers that there's this rather strange background to his appointment but anyway he's there as always he's there resilient you know hoping to hoping to get things over the line before June the 10th which is obviously the date of the opening ceremony.

37:13There's a scene, I think, as well as the observations about office life which are fantastic, there's a scene where Ian is in the hotel and he's trying to sort out his breakfast and the payment and the card. And that's such a brilliant observation. There's something weirdly difficult, isn't there, about hotel life sometimes. Obviously, first world problems. That's right. Yeah, and even down to the way that his credit card is then presented back to him with two hands. I love that sort of detail. It's brilliant. But yeah, so Ian has a problem with, there's a payment problem and it's just driving him nuts, you know.

37:49And I sympathize with anyone who has to spend many, many months in a hotel on business. The glamour wears off after about eight minutes and, you know, he's then offered some weird breakfast alternative package and he just sort of wants to get to work. He doesn't need to stand here at the desk with a rather passive-aggressive, smiling receptionist telling him how it's going to be. Again, I love all that. So, yeah, that actually feeds in later on to him, desperate to get out of this hotel and get into an apartment. And luckily, one of the team might have an out for him in terms of an apartment. So, yeah, he's definitely both...

38:26Well, I think, funnily enough, I think Ian's a fish out of water, but Will seems to just go with any water he can find, frankly. Yeah, Will... He sort of charges him like a drain. Yeah. Will might be the only character who isn't passive aggressive in this world. He just kind of blunders on. He's not thinking about things that much. No, I mean, he's, you know, on the whole, sort of completely useless almost. But, you know, he means really well. He's incredibly well-intentioned. But also he's so pleased to be there, I think. He's so pleased to have a job. I think, as he says, his parents said in the first episode, to finally make something of himself.

39:07Yes, exactly. The David Tennant narration is such a... Why is David Tennant so perfect for this, Hugh Bonneville? Can you put your finger on it? Oh, he is the absolute cream on the top, isn't he? I love the earnestness of it and the seriousness, the serious-minded delivery of sometimes utter nonsense. But it's a tone of voice that we've all heard in documentaries like you know that purport to be like this one and um and his support of the show i have to say over whatever it is 15 years now has been absolutely brilliant he's such a key ingredient to the uh to the flavor of the show i think yeah yeah and he's gonna i mean i was interested that john morton he's lots of references to like pop culture very current pop car mr beast and you know influencers i couldn't even name you did you did you were you impressed by his uh how he's got a finger on the nub well yeah i mean i i obviously had to google them all as well because i didn't see i was very impressed he's for someone who doesn't get out much john is really quite well uh i was very impressed yeah i need to yeah and need to find out how he how he had his he was so expert on all of that um would you like this would you like to do more of this i mean we i i would happily watch watch you guys doing john wharton shows for the rest of the rest of eternity but which you'd like to oh my gosh i i say i always describe it as a bit like doing root canal you know it's it's it's lovely when it's finished uh it's agony when you you know when you're when you're brewing up for it um but uh whenever i watch the fit i always swear never again and then i watch it and i think this is such a lovely show to to observe and everyone is so good in it and that all the elements are so strong that um uh you know maybe maybe we'll get dragged out of retirement once but one more time i don't know hugh we're going to see will climb the ladder to to the success he so rightly deserves i don't know but i mean yeah i'd obviously always do i just honestly couldn't believe i was asked to do it this time around but yeah if i ever got us to get i'd be there in a flash good yeah yeah and there are moments that finally there are moments when there are some reaction shots you there's one in episode two where you look to camera because there is we do we hear the um documentary makers don't we in this in this version which i that made it feel even more kind of real, really.

41:26It feels like you're about to crack up and start laughing in the middle of it. But is it difficult to keep a straight face or is John Morton rules with such a rod of iron that he won't let you do any of that? Sometimes it is. I mean, they call it spam. There are moments when David Tennant narrates in the middle of a scene, and sometimes you have to just keep talking to make the space for the narration and sort of go off-piste. and sometimes that gets, that can get very hard. But no, on the whole, fairly well behaved, I think. Wouldn't you agree, Hugh? Yeah, I think so. I mean, it's so fraught with tension, the set, in terms of just trying to get it right, that there's, but then certain people will do certain things and you do just crack.

42:10But when, as I say, when it's 100 degree heat and you've got an exhausted crew, you do try and, well, actually that sometimes makes it worse, you know, when you're really not meant to giggle and you just can't help yourself. But, you know, John is an incredibly patient director for, you know, for someone whose material is, you know, he's worked on for so long and so carefully and every word is well crafted. We do try and do it right for daddy.

42:39Good to know. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Well, it's a joy to have you both back. And yeah, it's fantastic. Thank you, Boyd. Thanks, as ever, for your support. You've always been a great champion of our show, so thank you. Oh, pleasure. Yeah, absolutely. Cheers, Hugh, and cheers, Hugh. That was Boydy, and Hugh times two. I'm done with poetry, I promise. Okay, shall we move on to a listener question, Kay? Yes, let's. Yes, and I had failed to prepare a listener question this week because, you know, lazy and I'm writing a book, apparently. So you swooped in at the last minute to save the day, did you not?

43:15Well, yes. Well, I thought, is this coming out on Easter Monday? It is. So I thought, hey, guys, what are you watching on Easter Monday? Because obviously everyone's got, well, a lot of people have the day off. Not if you're a freelancer, obviously. But yeah, what are you going to be watching, James, on Easter Monday? What am I going to be watching on Easter Monday? That's a good question. That is a very good question. I wish I had an instant answer to tell you to that question. I know what I want to be watching. I want to be watching the last two episodes of For All Mankind that Apple have yet to give me.

43:42whether I will be able to remains to be seen I will definitely on Easter Monday be watching the fifth episode of The Capture if I didn't have time to watch it on Sunday night so that's very exciting but is there anything on like actually Boyd you're our linear man I'll tell you what's on linearly if you want to know Babies carries on we reviewed Babies last week yeah I heard we got very positive feedback to Steph's review of that people thought it was great yeah incredibly moving review of that it's not exactly cheery stuff for a holiday Monday. But I think, but there's also, yeah, it's bittersweet, I think, is what that show is.

44:20But it's brilliant, obviously. I'm a Celebrity South Africa begins on Easter Monday. That's the big, big, huge blockbuster show, which I'm sure James has got on his calendar, on his watch list. But they've got an incredible lineup on that, including your friend Gemma Collins. Oh. And China with Ben Fogle, if you're on that but there isn't I wouldn't say it was like a cornucopia of treats the comeback continues on Sky Comedy and HBO Max that's probably the best show full stop on at the moment so and that's going out weekly airing weekly on HBO and it's not and Sky so those would be the ones I would pick out personally how about you Kay what are you going to do well I think I'll continue with the other Bennett sister very good also I have yet to start The Pit So I think it's going to be Pit Monday.

45:14Oh, yeah, make it Pit Monday. Because you've got all of season one, and you've got, I think they're up, they've nearly finished in America, so we're a bit behind. Season two, yeah, so they've done 12. So yeah, so they've got three left in the States for season two. I feel I need to issue a kind of a, I don't know, like a PSA about Sky, like when you, because if you have Sky, you now have access to Disney Plus and Netflix and HBO Max so now you can get both of those through your service so you have to activate them so you have to go into the Sky app Can I just say I'm glad you mentioned this because I don't know about you but I have been given just to be transparent that's not why I'm mentioning it but to be transparent I've been given a free pass for HBO Max for I think six months right have you been sending this at all as a top free no I think because I didn't go to the party oh really Have you activated it?

46:10Yes. I can't work out how to do it. I feel like a complete bozo and idiot. I can help you with this. Oh, thank you. Yes, that's fine. That's why we call him IT James. I've tried to do it like three or four. I'm like, how do you get past the whole... You're actually good at that kind of stuff. To be fair, I had to go a rather circuitous route to do it. Meanwhile, listeners are getting their little violins out. This is major, major third world. It's the most entitled thing ever. But, but, but... First of all, not third. But there is... So you have, like I say, you have to activate HPO Max. Yes. and activate Disney+.

46:41However, if you have an annual subscription to Disney +, you will run into a problem, as I did. So I had paid in January for 12 months of Disney +, Ultimate. Right. Right? Yes. Now, when I went to the Sky, I activated, oh, take over my Disney +, as you're supposed to do. They took it over, but essentially that then puts my Ultimate subscription on pause, and then they start charging me weekly for Disney Plus because what you get included for free is basic Disney Plus with ads. With ads. And not the UHD version. But it can't carry over, if you've got an annual subscription, that thing. So basically, it now pauses that one that I bought until whatever such time as I no longer have Sky and then it will re-inactivate and then I have to now pay, I think it's£9 a month, which is a discounted rate, through Sky to have it that way.

47:32So basically, I guess what I'm saying is if you have paid annually for Disney +, I would maybe recommend waiting until that has elapsed before getting it through Sky before redeeming it. Great tip. That is a good tip. Because, yeah, it tripped me up. That's annoying otherwise and then it's all the admin. Yeah, there's a little bit of admin there. But I mean, look, it's great that Sky do that. I think it's brilliant that they've chosen to do this, that you now get HBO Max. And also, if you have Now TV, you also get HBO Max, which is something I didn't think was true, but actually is true. Sorry, I meant the admin if that cock-up happens.

48:01And I know I just called it Now TV even though it's now, but you know what I mean. Oh, yeah, but we're still calling it Apple TV, so it's all good. That's true. We just call them what we want. Well, it's Apple TV. It's an Apple TV Plus. Oh, yeah. You and Apple TV. God. You and Apple TV Plus. Anyway, that's my PSA. So, but have you managed to resurrect your existing... Nope. No. Oh, well, oh. That's quite annoying. It can't be resurrected, no. Oh, wow. Yeah, it can't be resurrected. Because on the... Oh, this is tedious. It doesn't matter. But on the HBO Max thing, which I have tried and failed to sign up to, it says existing HBO Max subscribers it won't work so yeah well actually it kind of does work weirdly but you end up with two simultaneous things running back to back like I say it's complicated so if you already have paid up accounts for either of these things and they're not monthly maybe let that expire before you sign up if you are monthly that's fine it'll just take over it and it'll sort it all out can I also suggest that listeners get directly in touch with James he'll offer a service whereby he's going to coach you through the process after he's helped Boyd with his free HBO Max subscription sure that's fine I will be Sky's technical support.

49:04I think for Pilot Plus listeners particularly, that would be a good add-on that James is going to offer that service. Yes, if you're a Pilot Plus subscriber, I will help you with your Sky. Don't you come round. We'll get the white van. With my little engineer's package. Oh, that sounds weird. Oh my God. I meant like a tool belt. I don't want to talk about your engineer's package. I mean, you and the tool belt could be an OnlyFans. Yeah, this has gone in an unexpected direction. I derailed it, sorry. Yeah. What were we talking about? This is the question. We've done it. Oh, Easter. That's right.

49:34Eggs. All right. Have you got your eggs yet? No, I was wondering. I said specifically in advance. Do you remember that I was coming in and I was hoping you'd give me an egg? Sorry. Yeah. Do you buy yourself an egg each year? No. Oh, that's very sad. Yeah, absolutely. No, I'm not giving an egg. I bought it yesterday. Oh, and what was it? It was. It was one of the big, always dairy milk, obviously. I got one of the big fruit and nut ones, which has like raisins and bits of nut baked into the egg shell. Oh, okay. Yeah. So it's a fruit and nug, fruit and nug? A fruit and nut egg with little fruit and nut bars.

50:07Oh, interesting. I don't know how I feel about that. I don't feel good. Well, I've had the crunchy one, which has crunchy bits in the shell, but that's, I mean, sometimes that's a bit too sweet. How many strings have you got? Oh, no, just the one. I buy myself one massive egg each year. Okay. Because there's something delightful about eating that chocolate in an egg configuration, as long as you refrigerate it. Egg configuration. No, I'm serious. You have to put it in the fridge, because part of the fun is taking the edge and then like whacking it on the counter until you can break bits off. Yeah.

50:32I'm serious. Might be a bit of a chocolate psychopath. I was going to say. I'd like a Frere Rocher one. Really? Yeah. That has got to be the worst egg. Or the shell one. I love the shells. And you say I shouldn't. Oh. The Guillain or however you say it. Oh, okay. Yeah, I know what you mean. Guilain. I don't know. Guilain. Of course, there's Hotel Chocolat. Let's not forget. Of course you'd get that. That's what you'd get. You'd get a velvetised egg, wouldn't you? I'm surprised he's not getting Fortnum & Mason. No, Hotel Chocolat is just incredible ones. they are fucking expensive though. I remember when you got House of the Dragon chocolate egg delivered to your desk.

51:05Yes. Massive great dragon egg made of chocolate. That shell, eggshell thing was unbelievable. It was like a centimetre thick. Try and smash that, James. Yeah, come put that in the fridge. Take your axe to that. Anyway, see, that's a good, that has led to a great discussion. A great chocolate discussion. Yes, absolutely that. Okay, fantastic. Let us move on then to this week's news. And I wanted to mention a couple of things which dropped it into my inbox yesterday. First and foremost, the BBC announced a factual drama about the murder of Sarah Everard, which, I mean, obviously in retrospect, I kind of feel was inevitable, but also I'm not sure how I feel about this.

51:45Look, I do know what you mean. First of all, I think Steph will be really... Very much so. ...on board with this. I know what you mean. However, crucially, it's a Jeff Pope vehicle. He's going to be doing it. And he is... And I'm, like, as I said, I am doing the, believe me, press screening Q &A. So that's another one of his stories that he's telling. But I would say he is exceptional at telling these true crime, horrific stories in a really sensitive and respectful, well-researched way. So it doesn't feel as icky as sometimes it can do or, you know, make you feel as uncomfortable. It's a story that, like, you know, as a woman, and I remember having this conversation with a lot of female, it just really sort of hit people in a different way, this story.

52:34Particularly, I don't know why, like, obviously, all murders are horrific. But I think it's an important one to be told, because I think there should be awareness of the crime that was committed and the people involved, because obviously, as we know, one of them was a police officer. Yeah. I mean, weirdly, the thing that made me feel slightly better about this is the way Geoff Pope has positioned it. And he's talked about, so it feels like it's not going to be something about glamorizing, not glamorizing, that's not the word, or giving any kind of like lurid glorification of the incident for anyone's entertainment.

53:07I think what it's going to look at is the institutional failings that made this possible. Because the quote that he issued around this was, Wayne Cousins should never have been a police officer, but opportunities to deny him that privilege were missed. That he was still a serving officer on the night of March the 3rd, 2021, after committing numerous sexual offenses over a long period of time, was a tragedy waiting to happen. and the key question asked by this drama. So I definitely think if you're going to approach it, that is the way to do it. And do you know what? That's the approach he's taken with Believe Me, which is about John Warboys, who was the serial rapist, the taxi cab driver, black cab driver.

53:41And actually, that's exactly the lens that has been looked through, the institutional failings of the victims by the police, how they weren't believed, hence the title, and the action that was taken against the police because of it. So, yeah, that's what he's done before, and clearly he's doing again. yeah Jeff Pope is the go-to guy for writing scripts about this kind of stuff and he's got an incredible track record Little Boy Blue he did Suspect the Shooting of John Charles de Menezes A Confession etc etc you're one that he's believe me that's coming soon he knows what he's doing and he's always he's never I don't think he's ever put it wrong he always gets the victims families he talks to everyone that should be talked to always gets, you know, kind of approval, if you like, from the people that, you know, need to be told what's happening.

54:34And I think it was such a shocking case that the more, but still people, the detail of it, people won't know. And that's what he does. He kind of immersed the details of these things. And I think the more you know about that case, the better. And the more people, the more publicity that case gets, because of just how it was, the better as well. And he will handle it brilliantly. So, yeah, I think it's I think it's a no-brainer really okay what else have we got? I watched the Euphoria trailer which came out just the other day and it's extraordinary how that show when that show first started people like Jacob Elordi off Wondering Heights, Zendaya to a lesser extent Sidney Sweeney certainly was unknown they've now become the A-list these people these actors are the A-list in Hollywood right now and they're all back somehow they've been corralled back to take part in the third and I presume but I don't know final season of Euphoria which was remember as well it's about high schoolers it's not even like college these people are playing high school students they're now in their 30s and they're now in varying degrees they've all got baby faces yeah so I was fascinated by so this is out Monday week on Sky Atlantic and HBO Max as well, the aforementioned, and the trailer.

56:00Basically, I was like, what are they going to do about the high school setting? So basically what's happened is that they've actually left high school. They're not going to pretend they're all going their separate ways and somehow will be embroiled in a storyline. I don't know how separate it will be, but it looks like a kind of just an amazing movie about these young people getting up to all sorts with the traditional level of violence, sex, swearing, drug taking, drug trafficking, etc., that you'd expect from the show. So I'm fascinated by it. It looks spectacular from the trailer. The screen is not available yet.

56:36I had to write about it without seeing it. Boy, it's furious. I am furious. But I'm absolutely fascinated to see how it plays out, I have to say. Now, talking of upcoming releases, have you already spoken about the date for the final series of hacks? no if not I don't think we have spoken about that well let me reveal it to you now boys tell us it is the 17th of April and apparently according to the synopsis it's in the aftermath of mistaken and unflattering news reports that she has passed away Debra Vance aka Jean Smart and Ava returned to Las Vegas more determined than ever to secure Debra's legacy as a comedian exciting yeah can't wait very exciting and that seems very soon you know back in the Remember when we were waiting like 18 months for the show to arrive at all?

57:25True. In the UK now, it's starting in two weeks' time. It's like news. Very exciting. We mentioned obviously one true crime thing. There is an Epstein TV show in development. Have you seen this with Laura Dern in it? Yeah. So this is based... Inevitable. Yes. Based on the book Justice, the Jeffrey Epstein story by Julie Kay Brown. And Dern is starring as Brown herself, who's a Miami Herald reporter who was investigating Epstein's crimes and helped shine a light and all of that stuff. So that's another fun watch to look forward to. Yeah, I mean, it's bound to happen, isn't it? I mean, I'm sure there'll be more Epstein-based dramas and stuff.

58:06I tell you what I should have mentioned in the listener question slot of what we're going to be watching at least a weekend. I tell you what does come out on Good Friday. Tell me. Is, are the Lost Doctor Who episodes? Did you know about this? Yes, I have heard of them. There are two episodes. And then they turn up in someone's loft or something. Yeah, incredible story. And they're not only just any episodes of Doctor Who, they're from in the 1960s, and they're from a Dalek-based storyline. So you kind of see really early Dalek-based Doctor Who action. And I can't wait to see these. It's absolutely fascinating.

58:40So they arrive on both episodes, The Nightmare Begins and Devil's Planet, from the third series entitled The Dalek's Master Plan, written by Terry Nation, who is the legendary Doctor Who writer, starring William Hartnett. So he was the first Doctor. Peter Purvis, as his companion, Peter Purvis of Blue Peter fame. It's going to be fascinating watching it. So absolutely cannot wait. A resurrection of those Doctor Who episodes on Good Friday. Perfect. Exactly. Okay. Well done. Nicola Walker news. Who doesn't want that? Who doesn't want that? So apparently there's going to be a brand new Hulu original series.

59:14Hulu? Hulu. airing on Disney Plus during the summer and she will play Alice who is devastated when her best friend Steve starts dating her 26-year-old daughter Izzy. You can imagine that's a conundrum. And she's going to lose her best friend and her daughter in one fell swoop so she tries to do everything she can to end that relationship. But unfortunately for her, Steve's more than ready for the attack and what begins as a perfect friendship devolves into an all-out feud. So Steve's going to be played by Jermaine Clement and her daughter will be played by Yali Topol Margolis. So I'm excited for that.

59:49Good. Yeah. Good line-up. Good line-up. Did either of you see the trailer for Cape Fear? The new Apple TV, Cape Fear. With Javier Bardem looking terrifying. Yeah, no, but I did see the trailer for that when they ran it in Santa Monica in a massive event that Apple TV put on. Sound the bellend. Yeah. I mean, can I just make a comment about that trailer? Yes. It feels like it's been cut together by AI. oh don't say that like genuinely it's just what have humans done that that's awesome I mean yes apologies if you were the one who edited that trailer but it's very too late now discordant and chaotic in its edits and I found it maybe it's intentional maybe it is maybe it is discombobulating deliberately that could be the reason or it could be that they said dear chat GBT please make us a trailer for K-Fear to be fair of all the streamers to do that I don't think it's going to be Apple I'm just saying I'm just saying I found the edits in it quite All right, James has notes.

1:00:45I have notes. I have notes on the trailer for Cape Fear. We could note, but the editor might be our friend who edits Slow Horses. Robert Frost. Robert Frost was an Apple show. Who left us that lovely review poem. Yes, he did. Yeah, legend. I do not believe Robert Frost would have done that show. I think it's deliberate. I think it's deliberate. I think from memory, they showed the trailer and the clip as well as having an onstage chat about Cape Fear. It was the show that I came away because they publicised about, 20 shows upcoming films but that was the one that really hit home for me I thought it looked fantastic so did you get that impression apart from being annoyed by the edits?

1:01:21I mean that was my main takeaway He was unable to absorb the content he was just so irritated by the look of it It was so chaotic Oh okay It does look good though and Javier Bardem is genuinely terrifying Yeah absolutely Yes Good stuff Okay What else we got? Did you see there was I mean you will not care about this but some drone footage surfaced from the third season of The Last of Us which showed Caitlin Diva as Abby on a rooftop with, crucially, Kiriana Crater as Lev. It's a very important new character. Who's Lev? I can't tell you because it would be a spoiler. And obviously, you love the show.

1:01:54Please, can I get points for showing interest? Thank you, Kate. Because I did enjoy it when we watched it and then I had to stop because it caught, yeah. Although, crucially, this drone footage was on a rooftop. And not a corridor. And not in a corridor. Right, so Boyd is back on board. They've learned their lesson. They've learned their lesson. They know too many corridors. See, that's the thing. when Boyd gives notes, people listen. And also, spoiler for season three of The Last of Us, there are a lot of rooftops in it. A lot of rooftops. It's very roof-based. It's the rooftop season. Yes, it is.

1:02:20Is there some roof-based tax system going on? What's going on? Yeah, but very few corridors. As I said, they know. They know. They know where they've got wrong. It was too dark. It was too dark. Now they've gone into the light. Another thing came up. Matthew Lillard did an interview and said that he came within a baseball bat's breadth of playing Negan in The Walking Dead. can you imagine that's mad Matthew Lillard as Negan no neither can I at all that blew my mind that that bit of casting can you imagine there's another world there's an alternate universe out there Quentin Tamteno would have been furious he thinks he's lame one of the many outrageous things that Quentin has said recently old QT would not have been amused but Jeffrey D Morgan is so iconic as that character that is interesting totally different energy Fantastic.

1:03:10Yeah, all right, brilliant, brilliant. And I think that's all the news I have for you. Absolutely. Done and dusted. We're done with news. So let's move on to the next interview. The next interview, and our next guests are Dr. Robbie and Nurse Dana themselves, Noah Wyle and Katherine LaNasa, the beating hearts of the pit. So I was cock-a-hooped to chat with these two about the show, which you can, of course, watch now on HBO Max. this is a general pitch chat but we do talk about a couple of little plot points that come out in season one so if you don't want to know anything at all about the show then do bear that in mind I'm not sure I'd call it a massive spoiler but it is a memorable a very high pitch spoiler that shows he's nervous yeah but it's a memorable moment from about halfway-ish slightly after that through the first season so you know proceed at your own caution with that caveat out of the way here is me shooting the shit with the stars of the pit.

1:04:07Wow, what day for intros. Do you know what? I was literally about to say, just point to no poem. Incredible. Well, guys, welcome to the show, and thank you very much for doing this. Thank you for having us. I love that you guys are doing press together, because I feel like... We haven't really done a lot of this. I know. Really? Because I feel like Robbie and Dana's relationship is the bedrock of this entire show. I'm glad to do press with Noah, because he is such a good public speaker. I, on the other hand, And, yeah, I had to learn to slow down because I was reading some stuff I said in print, and I'm like, this is grammatically incorrect.

1:04:41I just said completely uneducated. Yeah. Well, there was a screening last night, wasn't there? And I heard there were a lot of NHS people. Yeah, there were. Yeah, it was a seated crowd. Did you get to speak to them afterwards? Did you find that? Very little, very little. They whisked me out of there kind of quickly, but I would have loved to have hung around and heard their impressions of the show. Yeah, because obviously we have different problems here, But that's not to say the NHS is without its difficulties. Like, it's a difficult profession, I think, across the board, right? Oh, incredibly so.

1:05:08I remember, you know, 30 years ago coming on a press tour for ER and talking about the similarities and the differences in the healthcare systems back then. And that show was incredibly popular here because the themes are universal. Patients are patients, you know. Everybody can relate to being stressed or overburdened, underappreciated, underpaid. These are ubiquitous human experiences. Yeah. And one thing I really liked about the show was it it kind of centers the nurses like you get a sense for What nurses actually do and the expertise that they bring to this whereas a lot of dramatized shows They feel a bit more like assistance to doctors Was that was that something you'd literally set out to do?

1:05:47Yes Intentionally so well wait it was supposed to be the most medically accurate show that we've had on television You can't be medically accurate without talking about what Harris is doing in this environment because they do most of the work They do all the palliative care. They do all the administering of medications. They do all the dirty work of the cleaning and the wiping. And they do all the hand-holding, all the really kind of spiritual angel work as well. And my mother is a nurse. And it was clear to me that it was an unheralded profession in most medical shows. ER was an exception to that.

1:06:22But, you know, usually the nurse is the one in the romantic relationship with the doctor. she's not the one that's doing the hero duty on the floor like dana yes dana is awesome by the way thank you uh we're uh behind here in the uk we have to wait a year for this which has been insane and i'm sure you've heard a number of people have done what i did where we're like we're taking a flight i'm gonna watch all 15 hours of this to the u.s about which i literally did wow it was my trip to orlando and yeah i did the whole of season one uh to and from orlando Wow. Intense. That's a hell of a flight.

1:06:56It was very intense. It's a white knuckle flight. Yeah, but do you know what? I really think it lends itself to it. Don't get me wrong. It's an anxiety attack waiting to happen, but there's something about how propulsive it is and the real-time element of it that you just lock in, and I feel like you live that shift, and by the end of it, you're like, oh, my God, I'm going to die. So that's two viewings, seven episodes? Well, because I couldn't get through the whole thing on the flight out, so I had to top up and finish it on the way back. Wow, that's intense. Maybe as much of a binge as I've heard yet.

1:07:27HBO luckily just gave me season two, so I was able to just do that. Very good. Yes. Savor it. Savor it. I did. There is a scene in season two, I was going to say, where you are dealing with a sexual assault survivor, which I thought was phenomenal. Just the performance and the sort of emotional nuance to that scene was just wonderful. But what I found interesting about this show is you deal with a lot of the kind of medical issues, Right. So, you know, insurance, underfunding, you know, under resourcing, bureaucracy, all that stuff. But it feels like it's very much a lens on American culture in toto, you know, whether it be immigration, whether it be the way, you know, police do or do not deal properly with sexual assault survivors.

1:08:05And I wondered, like, what you guys thought of that, because you never sound preachy. There's a subtlety to the way it's told. I don't know that you have to spell out an opinion about it. You just present it. It is what it is. Right. That's a terrific Andy Warhol quotation. Art is getting away with it. You know, so we don't want to turn anybody out, you know, we don't want to turn anybody off. And the easiest way to do that is to come at it from a preachy or prostitizing place. There's a term that we throw around the writer's room a lot, be careful of performative progressivism. You know, the feeling that you need to depict somebody in a certain way because they're a marginalized person and you can't predict, depict somebody else in a certain way because of who they are.

1:08:52And this idea that you have to be so precious and not present people as multifaceted or flawed is a trend that we're sort of very conscious of not falling into. And just presenting people as human, sometimes petty, sometimes heroic, you know, sometimes unaware of their own need for help, which is certainly the case with Robbie. Yeah. Because both of your characters, it feels like they were under pressure in season one. And season two, it feels like rather than dealing with their issues, like it's a breaking point, right? Yeah, I described the thesis of season one is the doctor is the patient and season two doctors don't make good patients.

1:09:33Or nurses, in fact. Or nurses. I like that they gave her some interesting choices. You know, I thought it was interesting that she doesn't press charges, you know, against Doug Driscoll. And then now she's dealing with an assault victim that she really hopes will press charges. and also at the same time being completely hypervigilant against any violence, probably because not really properly dealing with what happened to her. And I like that it's just so messy. It's messy. It feels more real that way. It's also nice to show progression of worldview. You know, somebody who, in season one, Dr. McKay is accused of perhaps having a bias against a patient who's overweight.

1:10:13And in season two, she applies that same lesson to another character who is exhibiting similar behavior. and in that you get to see oh that's a lesson learned that's wisdom attained that's perspective uh broadened and uh when you see that on tv i think it does have a kind of um unifying and empathetic effect yeah dana learned she's not gonna take any shit that's all i learned that scene that you mentioned from season one the assault scene is so shocking like it's really it's very powerful stuff well what was that like to shoot well it was really cool i mean no noah wrote that episode and it was like the first kind of breath that we really had to the character of dana so we'd really gotten to see dana it was a very very fun breaking up the fight in the emergency room you know being funny with the dog it was just there was a lot he showed dana doing a lot of different things and so i think the audience was sort of gaining greater compassion and connection to dana in that episode so then for her to be hit was crazy i think Establish there is a bearing wall in that environment, and then you knock it down.

1:11:17Yeah. So I think, yeah, I don't, that wasn't so hard because that's just a thing, right? You know, that's just the punch is, but it's the reeling. It's like after the punch, that's where all the, like, that's where all the stuff is harder to play. Like, what am I dealing with? You know, and it felt like I was playing an existential crisis for a few weeks, months there. And I was very happy in a way when we got into the mass casualty just because I could, you know, I was happy to go back into being more part of the skeleton. And, you know, it was super fun to get to breathe into the character that way.

1:11:53But it was really hard because she's so shattered from it. Because she's like the queen there. I don't think she ever thought something like that would happen to her. That she would be disrespected in that way. You know, in a place that she's served her whole life. It was very heartbreaking. It's challenging from a performance standpoint. We lock ourselves into that soundstage 14 hours a day for nine months. And it's sometimes easier to stay in the emotional life that we're pretending to be than it is to come out and try and pretend to be normal. And so as the season progresses, that aggregate effect of all those hours that you've already played have to be present at every moment that you're playing.

1:12:31So you tend to be, you get tunnel vision by the end there. I mean that particular scene I think because it comes out of nowhere as the viewer it's incredibly shocking surprising it reminds me of and I'm still traumatized by the scene where Mark Green gets jumped in the toilet that messed me up so much because you don't see it coming absolutely extreme violence out of nowhere and I think that's the effect of it and all too prevalent you know assaults against healthcare workers is a curve that's going almost vertical at the moment and it's a byproduct of wait times it's a byproduct of a lot of things but But it's a federal crime to assault a bus driver or an airline pilot.

1:13:11And yet there are very few ramifications for assaulting a health care worker. But you deal with so much stuff in this. Like you have, there's an ice sequence in season two, which I thought was very topical at the moment. Was that something that you kicked around? Should we include that? How are we going to deal with that? It's obviously a very polarizing issue. Once it became clear that the concept of sanctuary spaces was no longer applicable. Once churches, schools, and hospitals became open ground, it seemed irresponsible not to touch on it in some fashion. How we dealt with it, and we shot a rather graphic version of what we ended up putting on the air, and then we toned it down a little bit, which was an interesting conversation about how much or how little to depict.

1:13:57Ironically, all of it was shot and cut a month before what happened in Minneapolis with Renee Good and Alex Pretty. So the world gave context to the storyline in a way that we didn't have to. So suddenly it seemed more appropriate just to show the bear and not poke the bear. The bear and all of its capabilities is well known. Yeah. One of the things that when we talk about the show, we describe it as is competence porn. Yeah. There's just something incredibly... Yeah, we're competence porn stars. Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say. But it's a hell of a thing to do. Mature competence porn.

1:14:31A veteran. mature competence porn it's a whole new niche but right like watching incredibly competent people do their thing is incredibly cathartic I had a friend whose mother fell and he had to take her to the hospital and you know the whole reason why she fell the whole thing was very upsetting for him and he called and we're on the phone for a little while and I couldn't I couldn't my husband and I were both on the phone And I think we couldn't really quite tell what he needed. Or like, you know, we were talking to him, but it felt like something was missing. And he said, you know, because I just want Dana to come over.

1:15:11He said, I just want Dana. Like, can I just have Dana? You know, it's kind of sad. But yeah, it's like, you know, you want that. I think the pit makes people feel like, you know, that people care about other people. And the people put themselves on the line to take care of one another. you know showing the best side of of people in that way i think it's uh it's comforting it is comforting it's also as i say it has a velocity to it and the real-time format but it feels like much like a lot of john wells shows er the west wing it's always in motion like this walk and talk energy to it that goes through and you feel at the end of it because i feel like you've been in the trenches with these people for 15 hours that you know these characters so well but in reality we actually don't know almost anything about robbie and dana and i think that is an incredible thing for a show to do to make you feel like you have this sort of parasocial relationship with these people, but you know nothing about them.

1:16:02That's a bigger theme in season two, is that we all wear a professional mask at work and present to the world the person that we want the world to see that is sometimes in direct opposition to how we feel about ourselves. And as events unfold, that mask begins to slip for all of our characters, and it's sort of revealing how little we really show the people that we work with how we feel and who we are that becomes a big theme i think you describe it in season two isn't it it's like it's like a force field isn't it and you know you can't let your personal life come into your vocationally you have to compartmentalize you can't survive otherwise but that compartmentalization is an unhealthy thing over the long term because you know undealt with trauma becomes disease you know yeah yeah it's like a compassionate like separation compassionate distance you have to have in order to keep moving i i learned that when i went to the er when i was shadowing that you know how one what would be what would be appropriate for you or i to respond to an accident is would be completely inappropriate for an an emergency department worker they have to kind of take it in don't take it on yeah but also be attuned to their the patient's needs and that they're going through something you know that they're going through something life or death every person that comes in there is in trauma you know they just want to make it about themselves yeah they do well it is a fantastic show i cannot wait for season three i've just finished on bereft now i want more of it for season three have you wearing in production nowhere nowhere we're writing it we're throwing spaghetti on the wall starting in june sticks starting soon exciting stuff yeah thank you guys thank you so much that was noah wiley and katherine Lanasa and time now for this week's reviews and we begin with The Testaments which is Margaret Atwood's book of the same name or adaptation of her book of the same name which is her sequel to The Handmaid's Tale picks up some years after the events of that show's finale though less time I believe than the books and this is Chase Infinity as Agnes and she's a commander's daughter at an elite Gilead school for young women who is tasked by the terrifying Aunt Lydia played again by the excellent Ann Dowd.

1:18:09We're looking after Daisy who is a Canadian an immigrant to Gilead who enjoys, shall we say, special status at the school. Boydie, what is your testament to this? Well, this is funny enough, the first thing that struck me about this is that we should have asked Elizabeth Moss about it when she was our friend. Did you not? No, we asked her, Kay, we had a lot to talk about. We did. You know, we talked about almost everything. I heard it was a cracking interview. Thank you. That's all down to James. I heard it from Boyd. Yeah. Boyd told me it was a cracking interview. Yeah. We ran the gamut. we talked about but we did not talk about The Testament which is very much a sequel to The Hammaid's Tale which she ended up exec producing and directing a lot of episodes as well starring in it and she's the exec producer of this show that's all we know about her involvement in it so but we should have asked her about it definitely anyway it is as James pointed out it's vague about how soon after The Hammaid's Tale it takes place deliberately vague which is fine and they're not calling it a sequel either.

1:19:12It's described in the official press release as an evolution of or a narrative continuation of The Handmaid's Tale. But there's a reason why they've done that, right? Yes. Yeah. What is the reason? Because it's a thematic, let's just say it's a tonally different show. Yeah. But it continues on directly after it from a narrative point of view. Go on. It's not misery porn. Oh, right. I was going to say because for anyone who hasn't, maybe... Yeah. I mean, it is quite miserable but it's not as... It starts out quite very visually very different. It's brightly lit. They're all in this kind of very white as in the paint.

1:19:47Not the actual people. Hashtag testament so white. The whole setting is brighter, more colourful, where the visuals of the handmaid, so all the way through really, were very intense and kind of stylised and kind of reflecting the, frankly, the misery of the world it was depicting. This is much kind of sunnier, literally, and has a kind of a slightly happier, less intense vibe. But it's basically focusing on the burgeoning friendship between two of the teenagers. Aconist played by Jason Finney from One Battle After Another, who's absolutely brilliant, absolutely brilliant in that film and he's fantastic in this.

1:20:27And Lucy Halliday as Daisy, who's like, she's an outsider coming into this world and she's not really prepared for what it really means, like the full implications of... She's a pearl, is she? Yes. which are people from outside of Gilead who have essentially been converted and recruited to join Gilead. Yeah, exactly. And then early on we meet Aunt Lydia, who's running this particular... She's still around. Still around, still terrifying, brilliantly played by Handel. I did read Elizabeth Moss talking about how she's one of the greatest actresses she's ever worked with. Oh, wow. That is true. So to start with, it does feel like a literally visually sunnier, possibly less trying, less challenging as the Handmaid Sale often was in its depiction of horrible stuff.

1:21:12And yet, there is a scene that will not spoil. I would say, oh my God, it is back on the fucking stress and it is stomach churning and it is really distressing. It's really intense. You're like, okay, I think they lulled us into a forced sense of security and you get hints obviously the mother of, the mother in quotes of Chase Infinity's character. Her stepmother, yeah. Her stepmother is a nasty, a nasty, horrible woman. Nasty piece of work. Nasty piece of work. And it's like one of the many horrible people you met. A technical term nasty bastard. Nasty bastard, yeah. I was going to use the other B word, but that would be sexist, a sexist epithet.

1:21:56I won't do that. Don't fall into that trap, Kay. Not when you're discussing a out-and-out feminist piece, as this is. so what in the end because I remember Jane was talking about a lot about how you stopped watching The Handmaid's Tale because it was too distressing it was and I I stopped watching it and then I did catch up with the final season eventually after interviewing Elizabeth Moss the first time if I can drop that name without bungling it like I just did but you know what struck me is with that horrendous scene which happens in this first episode warning if you're of a nervous disposition don't watch it because it is distressing is people love this stuff.

1:22:38It's a simple like Handmaid's Tale went on for season after season after season and on one level it was quite repetitive. I mean you know it was dealing with how can the characters rebel from Gilead and how can you endure the miseries the tortures often in that world but I think people really I'm not saying get a kick out of it that's sounding like I'm judging it. I think there's catharsis to it. I think there's catharsis, yeah. And I think people... This has got a very political edge to it, and I won't... Because James will just cut it out, whatever I say. You know how James likes to censor you.

1:23:15I do. I do. It's like Gilead in here, isn't it? We are. I'm fucking Gilead, right? And you are Aunt Lydia. Oh my God, his new name, Aunt Lydia. I'm absolutely here for it. But I... And I'm not excusing myself from this. I think I find it cathartic as well. Because I will carry on watching this. I thought it was really well done this first episode. And that scene is shocking and a nightmare and disturbing. What's interesting is you're watching the reactions by the girls, the teenage girls who are watching this thing. Which is kind of almost as horrifying as the act itself. Yeah, because some of them are fine with it.

1:23:46Some of them are yelling to it, enthusing about it, encouraging about it. Obviously, part of the whole idea is they've been brainwashed by the whole idea of Gilead. all the people who created Gilead have brainwashed people to think this is the way forward, this is what they should be doing, this extreme version of religious Christianity or whatever. But it is horrifying, absolutely horrifying sequence that made, and I think the first episode was made by that, that is what makes it so powerful. And there's a whole, we have an ongoing discussion about whether we should even talk about spoiling things that happened, so I won't, But it's going to be much more interesting, I think, this series than you might think, just from the bald idea, so to speak, that it's a sequel to The Handmaid's Tale.

1:24:32And also the relationship between those two main characters. I think that's where the intrigue really is. Yes, because you're in this situation where... Because they both put on sort of veneers, are they veneers, of piety and conformity. And it's the question of how much do you let your guard down and trust the other person? can you let your guard down and trust the other person? Which I think is quite interesting. I think this is a more direct coming-of-age story, and I think it's probably... Because The Handmaid's Tale, like, spoiler for The Handmaid's Tale, but it does, I mean, obviously finish with Gilead still a thing.

1:25:05And I think this is the sort of more of the revolutionary conclusion. I don't know how this ends. I've never read The Testaments. But I think the idea of this is this is going to drive forward a more directly revolutionary storyline, rather than wallowing in the abject misery of being in Gilead. Yeah, well, that may still end with a certain amount of triumph for the people trying to overthrow Gilead, but it's too vast. They control the United States, so there are certain states that they managed to rebel against successfully, but it's still very much going in the rest of the country. So enough triumph to satisfy the audience.

1:25:43Yeah, exactly. the personal triumph if you like of Elizabeth Nott's character whose name I keep forgetting June thank you yeah that spoiler that's one thing but absolutely still going on as this as this new series reflects what did you think Kay? so I started watching The Handmaid's Tale when it was first out and then instantly The Handmaid's Tale The Handmaid's Tale The Handmaid's Tale that's a different show altogether I started watching that and then I changed to this show yeah but yeah I stopped very very quickly because it was too much for me and so I like was coming in completely new to this and I would say that if you are the same and you decide to watch this you will pick it up you know like it's it's it can stand alone I think oh yeah yeah story and yeah I disagree with everything you say I think it's I won't be watching anymore for the reasons outlined but it is very powerful storytelling and impactful and I think central to it those two characters of Agnes and Daisy.

1:26:46They're a real draw because it's interesting to see, as you say, it's kind of this kind of cat and mouse of like, you know, are we both being authentic and genuine about our beliefs in this regime and this awful ideology or are we just playing at it? And yeah, I think that's interesting. So I say definitely if you're a fan, you're going to love this and even if you're not, it's worth watching. and other than that I just say I hope you have a blessed afternoon yes blessed day blessed day they sometimes say blessed morning as well yes blessed morning may the Lord open yeah it's quite quite deeply sinister here's the thing that I read that part of the book The Testaments is from Aunt Lydia's perspective oh so I don't know if that is true because I've not read the book but I thought if that transplants to this show that would be a very interesting well one of the things they did make her more they did kind of make her even more more of a three dimensional character with different aspects to her towards the latter end of The Handmaid's Tale.

1:27:45So I think that makes sense. I can see that working. James, you're right. The novel is set 15 years after the events and it's narrated by Aunt Lydia. There we go. Fact check, correct. Fact check, correct. My personal role model, Aunt Lydia. That's how I run this podcast, what can I tell you? Right, The Testaments then, Boydie. Disney Plus, when? Wednesday, the 8th of April, 2026. Next up is 2026. It's an actual 2026, which you've already heard about, of course, which sees Hugh Bonneville as Ian Fletcher and Hugh Skinner as Will Humphries, along with narration, not by Aunt Lydia, but by David Tennant.

1:28:22And this is a mockumentary that sees Bonneville's character back for more after handling the Olympics in 2012, now turning his eye to the impending World Cup. Kay, you are not, unlike Boyd, in the pocket of Big Hugh. Sue, tell us, Sue? Sue, tell us. Sue, tell us. Sue, tell us what you made of this one. Do you know what? in the lead up to this I decided to re-watch W1A and I can highly recommend everyone does that because it is fantastic and will get you in the mood for this. So Ian Fletcher, Hugh Bonneville's character is once again central to this and he's now the Director of Integrity. It's funny even just saying that.

1:29:00Another preposterous title in Miami and he's part of the 2026 Oversight team for the Soccer World Cup which is being co-hosted, I love this, It's been co-hosted by US in competition with Canada and Mexico. And this first episode is basically, it's Ian's first day. So he arrives in Miami and he is finding his feet as the new boy. And he's surrounded by as moronic a team as he was in W1A, which is, I'm very relieved because I love those characters so much. And he had such a great chemistry. And I have to say, these new colleagues of his do as well. And they all have equally preposterous titles. they're all VPs of ridiculous things I mean logistics and execution there's a woman my particular favourite actually is Gabriela De La Rosa who is the VP of narrative and she they're trying to shortlist they've got the semi-finals coming up they need two venues they've got a shortlist of three they can't decide and she decides to add Guadalajara onto the list even though it's not and she's really fighting for it so it's back to that thing of like a disjointed team they're all at each other's you know they're all in at odds with each other and disagreeing.

1:30:11And it's down to him to try and calm things down, not always successfully. So I just think it's as good as it's ever been. And I'd highly, yeah, just watch it. It's so funny. And I just think he's got such a skill, Morton, that he is able to write this just cracking dialogue. My favourite parts are when it's all of them in a group just bouncing off each other, just saying one word. It's like, it's so... The meetings, yeah. Well executed, like an orchestra of just a cacophony of, as I say, morons. I love it. Oh, I'm glad, yeah, absolutely. I think John Morton is one of the most underrated and finest comedy minds of our generation going back to, he did People Like Us was one of the first things he did, which was a brilliant mockumentary series.

1:31:00And then he did Broken News, which was a really underrated thing, which was like, he had like flicking around between on cable, cable to all different news channels, a news channel, like an entertainment channel. And it was amazing. And as you say, 2012, and then WA, which was a sequel to 2012, really. So Hugh Bonneville's character, Ian Fletcher, and Hugh Skinner's character, we first met them in W1A. And it's just, you know, people like Olivia Colman was in it. And, you know, it was, there's something about... Jonathan Bailey. Jonathan Bailey, Johnny Bailey. Who was kind of like a little bit of a bully when it comes to Will's character, but, you know, not to an extreme way, but it was a great moment when lovely Will kind of managed to have some kind of success.

1:31:45And he was like going to be, I mentioned this, I think, in the interview, like he had some kind of promotion to actually some kind of producer's role. Now he's back just being basically Ian Fletcher's assistant, giving him coffee, bringing him coffee. Now, what I love about, I think John Morton is, he will use anything to get a laugh. so there's verbal jokes loads and loads of brilliant verbal jokes puns, slapstick there's a scene where one of the brilliant running jokes is that there's one of the executive assistants to the main guy who's trying to run the World Cup is pissed off that Will arrives as another executive assistant and his executive assistant to Bonneville's character, to Ian Fletcher and so Hugh Bonneville is slightly the askance that all this woman seems to do, her job seems to be to make coffee, bring in coffee for her boss.

1:32:35So there's a brilliant scene where Hugh Skinner brings in coffee for Hugh Bonneville. And it's so tense because you think some awful slapstick thing's going to happen. He's going to spill it. He's going to throw it over someone. But, spoiler alert, he doesn't. It just carries on being a really funny observation. There's stuff pertaining to, you don't have to be even vaguely interested in football, by the way. The setting of preparing for the World Cup, and there's another funny running joke about that. They can't say FIFA in the show. That's the best thing, isn't it? Which, by the way, is probably factually true.

1:33:07They probably wouldn't be allowed to say FIFA. Well, because they're depicting people working for FIFA. So, you know, I'm sure there's loads of issues. FIFA is one of the most ridiculous bureaucracies on planet Earth. So they bleep out every use of the word FIFA. Absolutely. And it never stops being funny. No, it's hilarious. So, I just think there's so many ways in which this show is hilarious. I love the characters. I love the two Hughes performances. Hugh Skinner is so adorable. He's got his headphones in. He's like, oh, crap. Everything's so crap. Okay, cool. And they bounce off each other.

1:33:41Brilliant. And Hugh Bonneville is just fantastic. He's just kind of this guy. He is actually kind of, I think he's actually grown a bit in the sense that actually he does come up with quite good solutions to things that eventually he will push through. And he's always done that kind of almost by accident in a way. Whereas now I think he kind of has learned and knows what he's doing a bit more than everyone else. so he's dealing with so he's as you say he's surrounded by utter doofuses and he somehow manages to achieve stuff it's all about the whole thing is all about the bureaucracy and how you achieve stuff but as I say you don't even be slightly interested in the world carpool anything like that that's just the setting for meetings after meetings after meetings in which these hilarious characters talk absolute nonsense at each other and barely achieve anything and it's absolutely fucking hilarious from start to finish I love it so much I'm so pleased that they come back with this gang with this show.

1:34:30Do you know what I read that it takes him two and a half years? Yes. It takes a long time. He puts so much into this. It's so dense. Particularly the verbal jokes and all of that and the timing of them and everything. And it's completely unimprovised. Everyone has to learn. Hugh Bonofill talks in the chat about how he had to learn every single comma and dot perfectly. It's such a precision performance, right? Exactly. James is going to hate it. No, I didn't hate it at all. It's not 100 % my type of thing being a kind of workplace mockumentary miserable twat that too but but it's I mean it's extremely well done and even if I don't understand the footballness of it I do understand the absolute absurdity around FIFA and the way they operate I'm at least peripherally familiar with that yes and also Hugh Bonneville sells it so well like he's just so brilliantly deadpan funny yeah it's delightful it's very well written but you can tell it isn't improvised as well.

1:35:29There's a precision to the way the dialogue sort of unspools where you're just like, this is absolutely polished within an inch of its life. I just think anyone who's ever worked in an office will be able to relate in some way to this. That's the thing. The football aside. It captures the modern day meeting. Meetings about meetings. We've all been there. Lanyards and things like that. The jargon that everyone has, the one-upmanship they're trying to do. It's brilliant. It's perfect. it's very very well observed next stop doing one mockumentary about pilot yeah that's it it just call it the podcast exactly okay yeah yeah cool

1:36:10i particularly uh i would say my favorite parts of this were erin kellerman sections as they're kind of like the social media team yeah oh yeah and the messaging of how they're going to uh sort of phrase a particular aspect of it shall we say without ruining it but genuinely very And they try and film some footage for the socials as well, which is just absolutely fantastic. Kind of the Lucy Hines, you know, that kind of PR role. Yeah, very much so, yeah. Very funny. 2026 then, which airs in 2026. Wednesday, BBC Two, 10 o 'clock, 2026. Me. 2026. Now you know why I say that every time. I do, yes.

1:36:47It was all building up to this. Yeah. Boyd, he has reached his final form. Finally this week, we have the Copenhagen Test, which stars Simu Liu as an intelligence agent who dreams of being promoted to the orphanage, which is a covert internal affairs oversight division that keeps all other American intelligence agencies in check. Except it isn't quite that simple. So let's find out if this show passed the Hilton test. This is interesting. It's a Peacock production. Now, Peacock, in brackets, by the way, seems to, basically anyone seems to be able to acquire a Peacock. show. There seems to be no rhyme or reason.

1:37:27This is on Channel 4, which is quite unusual. Oh, I thought you meant anyone could get a show on Peacock. I was like, that's a bit of a diss. No, absolutely not. Anyone can put anything on Peacock. We can test that with the sitcom set in a podcast. Yeah, the podcast. Peacock. I'll write it. I'm available. It's weird. They don't seem to have any particular affiliation with any other channel. So lots of different Sky shows Peacock stuff and now Channel 4 has acquired this one. They're putting it on prime time, which is quite unusual for Channel 4 on an American show. Wednesday, 10 o 'clock. And I remember when I said we should prove this.

1:38:05I described it as a science fiction thing. Actually, I don't even know where I got that from. I think someone must have described it somewhere. But for the first to start with, it feels like it's a pure espionage show. And there's this opening where Simu Liu's character is a US Special Forces sniper who is in Belarusia, Belarus, and he's faced with a choice. He's on his earphones where he's being told what to do by his superiors. He's told that he has to save an American. If there's an American in the people he comes across, there's only one place on the helicopter left to take them out of the Belarus.

1:38:41And so it's either this American woman or a young Belarusian boy. And the implication is he's picked the Belarusian boy over the American woman, although it's kind of like slightly left mysterious. And that leads to, three years later, the fact that he then ends up working as an operative for the orphanage, this secret oversight agency, which is like the ultimate AC-12. It's like the equivalent of In Line of Duty, of people investigating other people, internal affairs and corruption within the system. But like all government agencies are supposed to be being monitored by the guys in this particular floor, if you like, of the building.

1:39:17But then you think, oh, who's monitoring the people who are monitoring? the people good question who are monitoring the people and it's kind of it ends up being quite complicated I'm so happy you said that yeah it's quite dense yeah it's quite dense there's loads I didn't say I was being dense I'm happy that you think it's the show you get to it's also you get to the end it's a proper full hour of TV by the way no presumably because it's on Peacock is streaming so MEC streaming service so it's not like ad breaks or anything it's just it's quite a hefty I remember halfway I was thinking is this still going how much longer have we got there's another 35 minutes to go.

1:39:50I would say it's too slow. It takes too long to get to the point where we need to get to explain what is happening with him. Because then it does get a bit science fiction-y. And which makes it more interesting. And up until that point, I was thinking it's almost like a butterfly to use the all-round description of a genre piece that isn't particularly different or unusual or clever or special. going back to our live podcast with Russell T. Davis. And I was thinking, this is butterflying it. It's not original. There's nothing. And then it gets to the thing, the kind of twist at the end, which is, you know, which is more interesting, I think, but not so interesting that it's going to entice me to sit through more really slowly unfolding storylines and too many characters and too many complications about who's following who and who's corruptly not following who and what are we going to see and hear that they don't know we're seeing and hearing.

1:40:45I just found it too dense in all kinds of ways to deal with. The first episode, I think, in particular, has an awful lot of ground to cover. Yeah. And I think once you get into episode two, it's more coherent. So it's eight episodes long. It's an eight-hour show. It's not short. And suddenly the reviews have been mixed. It's aired in the States a little while ago on Peacock. I wasn't sure what this was because I didn't read up on it beforehand. so the sci-fi edge I wasn't really expecting until it arrived I like Simu Liu a lot and I thought he plays this kind of I guess low level analyst with aspirations very very well although when we first see him he's on a you know it's a military operation and Melissa Barrera who plays a bartender is also I think good for I think they've got great chemistry together so I actually quite like it and I really I got to the end of this first episode and I was like oh shit I really want to know what happens now So I think I'm going to have to watch more of this to see how it goes.

1:41:45I don't know if I'll make it through all eight. We'll have to wait and see. But I certainly like the idea of it. A lot of it would depend on how it's structured. Because it is streaming and it is 8-par, I'm hoping it has a more overt destination in mind because this is the kind of series with a few tweaks you could easily see as being kind of a noughties network show whereby, without giving it away, the general setup plays out, but it kind of stretches out ad infinitum as they come up with a new thing every week in a kind of alias style. I would really, really appreciate it if that didn't happen and it felt like it had a more distinct arc.

1:42:18I feel like you should have given these notes before it was made. Yes. Well, this may be what they've done. Maybe they've got my notes from the future. Who knows? Maybe they've hacked your brain. Perhaps they have hacked my brain. But if that has happened, then I'm on board. But I'm going to give it a couple of episodes and see. Do you know what? I'm like you. I really want to know what happens next. I don't have the time to find out so I'm going to need you to do that for me. So I'll watch it and then let you know what happens. When it first started, and, you know, as you say, he's in the field and he has this option, you know, of these two different people he could save.

1:42:48I was just like, why don't you just put the kid on the woman's lap? Yeah. Right? I had exactly said that. I thought, this isn't rocket science. You put the woman in the chopper and you carry the kid. How hard is that? I was like, it's not quite the conundrum you think it is. But anyway, so at that stage I was like, I think this is going to be a bit rubbish. But then, James, you'll be happy to know, as soon as I heard that, you know, the sci-fi twist, So I was like, oh, actually, this is quite interesting. And actually, that's what got me on board. And I was like, oh, okay, because... It didn't ignite your visceral hatred of all things sci-fi and make you want to burn the show to the ground.

1:43:18She'll tell you why. It's not foundation. No, but I just thought it was like the whole thing of how he goes on, you know, what happens, which I won't reveal, but like how he can prove he's not in on it and like the whole thing of who he can trust and what he can do about it. that to me is just so intriguing and compelling once I actually figure out what the fuck was going on. Because it is, I thought it was just me. At first I thought my actual, my screener was buffering because I was like, wait, what? But it's all part of it. And when you figure out that, you know, the kind of like twist, if you like, then everything falls into place.

1:43:55But yeah, I'm on board. From a distance. I'm on board from a distance. I'm looking forward to James to give me some York notes on it. Okay, I see what's happening there. Yeah. You're not going to carry on watching it, but you're fully in favour of James Carrion watching it. Yes, I'm endorsing that action. There we go. And then I'll just tell you what happened. My royal subject. Okay, good, good. I'm glad we were able to sort this out. The Copenhagen test then, Boyd. Well, it's on Channel 4, as I said, Wednesday, the 8th of April, 10 o 'clock, 2026. 2026. Not to be confused with 2026. No. What else is out this week?

1:44:28Well, pick of the week is 2026, obviously. Says Boyd, earning his money. Forget. I forgot to do that. there's quite a lot actually The Miniature Wife starts on Sky Atlantic and now on Thursday the 9th that is heavily embargoed but this is the story of a man literally shrinking his wife Honey I Shrunk My Wife yes yes so and that's Matthew McFadden of Succession Fame which James has never watched James' favourite show James' favourite show famously but Elizabeth Banks she is the shrunken the aforementioned miniature wife the little lady yeah literally a little lady so that's fascinating that's on Thursday there is The Boys James' favourite is back on Wednesday yes for the final season on Prime Video the final season very exciting there's the Malcolm in the Middle reunion four part special that's Disney Plus on Friday the 10th of April let's not forget this was the sitcom that first brought a certain Bryan Cranston to our attention Kate went on to be Breaking Bad of course the big mistakes is the latest oh I'm not going to say anything not allowed heavily embargoed this is Dan Levy's new project which is very exciting that's with he's made it with a woman who does I Love LA which is a great show the guy from I Love LA was at the HBO party really yeah very exciting and oh there's a thing called Ligas Ligas on Sky Atlantic and now on Tuesday at 9 o 'clock which is an Italian crime saga which is very highly acclaimed I love a saga highly acclaimed in Italy as our foreign language correspondent of course I'll be all over it like a rash I think that's about it okay what is our pick of the week?

1:46:172026 the boys it is excellent no come on choose if I had to choose one yeah because it is a weekly tradition lucky that I'm having to remind you of the format to continue watching it would probably be the Testaments. Oh, really? Yeah, I think so. I'm going to continue watching the Copenhagen. Gosh, that shows you that he'd rather take trauma over laughs. It does. Again, the hypocrisy. That's how strongly he feels about laughing. On this week's Plus, there's an analysis, a great analysis by a listener of James' utter hypocrisy. And Nick carries on. Is it Hayley? Yeah. Yeah, carries on now. It does.

1:46:55In front of our very eyes. That is true. If you don't subscribe to Pilot Plus, please do so because it's genuinely what enables us to do this podcast. And if no one subscribes to that, then we won't have a podcast. Then it's ciao for now. Then it's ciao for now, indeed. You can do so at the new website address. What? PilotTVPod.com. Wow. So if you go to PilotTVPod.com, you can subscribe to Pilot Plus. Well, an actual website address. It's not an actual website. As always with a pod, just slightly, just enough. Yeah, just enough. Yeah, basically. Slightly disappointed as well. Minimum viable product.

1:47:31God. The bare minimum. So yeah, pilotTVpod.com. I'm pleased to subscribe for a paltry sum of, I think it's like$3.49 a month. Less than a coffee. Yeah, pittance. Absolute pittance. Subscribe now. Do it. Follow us on the socials, at pilotTVpod, at Boyd Hilton, at Kay Ribeiro, at James C. Dyer. And we will be back next week. What are we back with? What is happening next week? Euphoria returns next week, obviously, on Sky. Margot's Got Money Troubles with Elle Fanning. That's on Apple TV. Beef Season 2 is on Netflix so a lot of exciting things on Pilot Plus this week we are going to let's be honest probably have a fight over what we cover big mistake we'll see come on okay same big mistake yeah I support that really done damn it sorry it's looking like it's a big mistake and not my beloved boys but I'm sure I'll get to talk about that on next week you know we can't do that it's not a new show it's the final scene you can't make the rules and break them even though you're say that.

1:48:31No, Gilead. You say that. I absolutely can. Your Aunt Lydia. With my Aunt Lydia hat on, I can absolutely break my own rules. Oh, dear. Blessed day. Pilot out.