The Vampire Lestat, Furious, and The Rapture

24:57And then you've got Zoe Saldana's character having her kind of home life problems with her daughter and her husband, played by your favourite, from basically Brothers and Sisters and Yellowstone. What's his face? Oh, yes. Hold on. Your man. And yeah, it's good. Have you watched the previous two seasons? No, this is the first one. I'm watching the first season. Oh, the first season. I've started from the beginning. Is it Dave Annabelle? Sure. Oh, Dave Annabelle. It is Dave Annabelle, yeah. He is delicious. And he's got this really like, I have to say, he is rocking his kind of iron grey hair and beard colour.

25:28Oh, he is just, he is delectable. Delectable? He is. I'm wondering, Kay also loves him, I'm wondering whether, because I was always very, one of the things I was very upset about with Yellowstone is that he played the son Lee and he gets, this is, well, he gets killed off in the first feature length episode, right? And I always thought, oh, what a shame because he's such a great character and I wonder if it's because Taylor was like, no, I need you on Lioness. Who knows? I don't know what the timeline is between those. But it feels like that character was always going to, you know, like he was written in to die at the beginning.

26:03I know, but then I think what would have happened is they realised oh actually he was a great presence in that show but you know okay he's in Linus I might stop watching Linus yeah Linus is fun so having fun with that and that's broadly speaking what I've been watching this week Linus not a hate watch just enjoyed it hate watch what is this hate watch indeed okay that is what we have been watching this week did you get the listener question that I forwarded on in the wee hours last night I mean Steph replied to it so you should oh did she yes why didn't I because she'll have replied to the pilot post bag mailbox which I do not want at her except once a week.

26:36I saw it, so she must have replied to me. Do you know what I did? I read the comments and then I didn't actually look at the question. Okay, good. That's silly, isn't it? Right, hold on. I'm going to look now. Anyway, I will read out this week's listener question, which comes from Gary. And Gary says, For the record, I embrace the use of any, and by the way, there's going to be swearing in this next segment. If you are currently in a car with a small child with sensitive ears who does not want to hear swears, You might want to skip this week's... Yes, you might want to skip this week's listening question because it's kind of swearing-themed.

27:11Okay, and this is Gary's fault. Gary says, for the record, I embrace the use of any and all harsh language, in particular, Boyd's flamboyant casual cunting. Wow. But it got me thinking, what are the rules for podcasts and profanity? Is it just an uncensored free-for-all, or are there limits? Are certain terms considered more extreme? I guess the question came to mind from me thinking you guys had deliberately restricted using creative language more recently. Or maybe that could just be a slow, gradual, natural consequence of Terry leaving the podcast. I bet Steph loves a good swear too. I do. Maybe that is the answer.

27:49Yet another positive from her addition to the crew. Either way, I for one am over the moon to have it back. Bonus question. What is your favourite swear moment on TV? For me, it will always be the late, great Isaiah Whitlock Jr.'s Clay Davis of The Wire and his trademark, shit. That or all the C-unit drops in Afterlife. Ricky Gervais is just a master of when and where to let rip, most notably to the little tubby schoolboy in Series 1. I've never seen a grown man call a young child a cunt before. I wonder if they had to remove the underage actor from set and use a stunt double, cunt double, to protect him.

28:25Any others? Keep up the good work. Gary. Can I just say I'm just going to explain I did reply to this because I was feeling like you two do not swear hardly at all and I swear all the time No I swear all the time No but like not like I feel like I'm quite an aggressive swearer and I was thinking God I think I swear too much I'm a real potty mouth and a couple of my friends said they couldn't listen to the podcast because they didn't want to they didn't want to listen to sweary Steph Well I was like oh Is this when you're coked off your tits Yeah when I've like coked off a milk bottle and like what His friends are very sensitive Well, they've got a small chance.

28:58They're like, we can't listen to it in the car, which we'd like to, because, you know. I mean, the whole point of podcasts is you've got to have the freedom to... Well, that's what I think. But I think you're the least sweary. No one in the history of my life has ever accused me of being the least sweary person in any situation. You're definitely the least sweary. You are a flamboyant swearer. Yeah. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. I'd like to be. To answer the first part of the question, there is, when I publish the podcast there is a checkbox that you have to check for whether or not it contains explicit content I tick that every single week just as a matter of course because I don't think we have ever put out a podcast that didn't have a swear word in it I mean, obviously the quantity of swear words has varied wildly again, Terry not being on the podcast has brought it way down but I always check that box as per Apple's guidelines Kay's not an unnecessary She would only swear when it's necessary.

29:55It's because she swore off, ironically, swearing last year. So she tried not to swear. She's always had a problem with the C word as well. She is. Well, she's a lady. She's a proper lady. Whereas you are. I am. Coke-fueled. I'm Coke-fueled. We try not to C-bomb on the podcast. And I'm on Empire as well. I don't. No, that's true. You are the worst offender when it comes to that. Yeah, you are. That is definitely your word. It's always in context for me. Yes. But I think that's the crucial distinction. is we do not casually cunt. We do not drop it in anger. Do you know what I mean? We use it where relevant to refer to a quote or a line or something.

30:32So the answer to the question, going back to the question, the best use of swearing, this is difficult for me because I'm not supposed to... You know how James is banned from doing West Wing references and probably some other show. Oh, there's probably loads of them. Friends, maybe Friends as well. I'm banned from Seinfeld and Curb. True. In this case, I have to be able to mention Curb because the episode in which they misspell the tribute to a late woman, and it's the Beloved Cunt episode, which is the misspelled Beloved Aunt, is one of the greatest TV episodes involving swearing of all time.

31:09And then there's, of course, the other classic episode in which the whole series climaxes with a swear-a-thon, a massive swear-a-thon, due to one of the characters having a certain condition. and that is also a legendary swear fest that can never ever be beaten and what I would say is that having seen Ali Cats the Ricky Gervais animated series coming soon which we will reviewing soon and we've interviewed Ricky for this very show I think that potentially must break the record for the amount of swearing in one show it is extraordinary Ricky's character there's no sentence without the word fuck in it for a start and then there's a liberal use of Kant as well as you'd expect liberal use of Kant so yeah that could well be the ultimate answer because it's so full of swearing it's incredible it's an amazing achievement so yeah I'm not again heavily embargoed so I'm not judging it I'm just saying I can confirm it's a potential record breaker in terms of swearing on television and the other two I was going to mention oh my god you've got loads oh yeah two more go on because I love this quote this is like catnip to me Logan Roy yeah fuck off fuck off that became iconic properly iconic and people come up to Brian Cox and say fuck off to him I can attest to this that Boyd and I interviewed Brian Cox in the Electric Cinema in Notting Hill at the end of interview Boyd said Brian could you could you tell me to fuck off I'm sure everyone knows and he did and it was everything he dreamed it would be he loves it so yeah that's it and finally the thick of it remember the thick of it yes Malcolm Tucker that was like the Shakespeare of swearing so this is my favourite one of all the main examples of brilliant creative use of swearing in the thick of it this is Malcolm Tucker and the quote is if some cunt can fuck something up that cunt will pick the worst possible time to fucking fuck it up because that cunt's a cunt that beats that you do love the C-bomb you do do you know what my favourite one is and I don't think we ever talk about this show enough Friday night dinner Paul Ritter his constant shit it all the time I love it he's always saying but yeah that for me you know when it becomes part of like the show so integral to the show R.I.P.

33:32Paul Ritter but yeah that would probably be my favourite the magic of that was that it was he could have just been saying shit yeah shit it shit it shit it is shit is my favourite shit is my favourite that's a very good example James The correct answer to this question is everything uttered by Sheree Agdashloo in The Expanse. No one, and I mean no one, swears better than Sheree Agdashloo. And it's not just because she has that brilliant, a thousand cigarettes a day type, like gravelly voice. But her execution is peerless. And I think if you ever want to learn how to swear, she is your teacher.

34:08And it's brilliant because when it moved from sci-fi and it moved to prime, The swearing jumped up a notch as well. They were much more liberal with it, and it's a delight. An absolute delight. I love the idea that someone wants to learn how to swear. I'm really going to like it's Duolingo or something. Do you know, I do think there is a skill to the deployment. You talk about Peter Capaldi is a black belt in obscenity. Ricky Gervais, again, third Dan swearer. Yeah, these are the giants of swearing. Shereya Dashloo, I'd say, is their queen. But yeah, it's definitely a skill. it is controversial but if we're being specific that I tie Whitlock in The Wire is definitely great but I you know it's that that famous scene isn't it where it's Bunk and it's McNulty and they're at the crime scene and they just say fuck that's the only word they use for the entire duration it's just like fuck fuck fuck and it's just just that word repeated and it's just that I think is absolutely wonderful also what David Milter did in Deadwood with oh that's such a good one I really wish that was my with Ian McShane because what's really interesting is because the kind of swearing they used back then which were things like tarnation or gold's darn it would have sounded weird so he deliberately employed modern anachronistic cursing in it I mean the use of cocksucker is legendary in Deadwood but it's true but it averages 1.5 fucks per minute in Deadwood apparently I'm so jealous that you researched that so well that's such a great answer and I think again it's the masterful Ian McShane is masterful.

35:41Totally agree. As the ironically named Al Swearengin. The other thing I would point out is when they substitute swear words, which I think can be done quite well. And Battlestar Galactica frack became the swear word of choice. And I think that's used quite well all the way through because obviously you can't really be swearing on network television. That's fine. But actually, if we're talking about that, the good place, holy and mother forking shirt balls, like all of that, the idea that they were in heaven. So when they swore, the divine powers changed it to another word. And I thought that was a really interesting way for getting around it because you knew what she was saying but she didn't actually say it.

36:12Well you know let me bring up your favourite show and mine which is Mrs. Brown's Boys because of course in Mrs. Brown's Boys to start with they would say feck instead of fuck all the way but that's Irish. No no no yeah it's partly Irish but it's also but then I don't know when the specific moment was kind of halfway once it'd become like the biggest comedy on TV which it was at one particular moment then they just gave up saying feck and they just started saying fuck and basically the whole show was like full of fucks. So it all went out 9 o 'clock, 9.30, 10 o 'clock on BBC One but it was an Alicia fuck fest and he just stopped saying feck at all.

36:52Well, I'm sad that they stopped saying feck because I have an Irish mother-in-law and literally every second word she says is feck. You know, it's not like the Irish word feck is not a substitute for fuck. It's a completely different word. No, I know but I mean like But in the case of Mrs. Brown's boys You can substitute, you can substitute. Oh, yeah, and I think usage-wise it has become, but by all accounts, and I just Googled it, as a standalone noun, feck traces back to 15th century Scotland as a shortened form of effect, meaning value, vigour, or the majority of something. She definitely doesn't use it like that.

37:23No, no. She says feck off all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I think it's common usage has changed. The other honourable mention I want to give, Game of Thrones gives good swears at times, but my favourite is Jerome Flynn as Bronn, who drops swear words absolutely fabulously. There's one bit where he's talking about Joffrey, and he just goes, there's no cure for being a cunt. And I was just like, that is brilliant. Again, masterful deployment. That's good. I think swearing in a northern accent is nicer. Better. Yeah, it doesn't sound so aggressive. Maybe. Do you know what I mean? I'm not sure if I agree about that.

38:02It's a good, interesting theory. Well, we're entering our era of you not agreeing with anything, I say. It's not surprising. Well, we'll see. We'll see when the bombshell of your most hated show arrives. I enjoy TV more when they're swearing. Oh, yeah, same. Enormously more. I mean, I enjoy life more when they're swearing. I think so too, because swearing at its very base, it's an intensifier, isn't it? It conveys intense emotion and it's inherently dramatic. One more thing about Ricky Gervais. When I interviewed Ricky, it's a delight. I punched the air moment when I interviewed him and he does a swear so he talks about in the interview which you'll hear in a couple of weeks time he talks about things that annoy him and he talks about how sometimes you get some fucking cunt will be filming you and when you're acting out in the restaurant I'm like oh my god Ricky's just said some fucking cunt and I was like yeah punching the air so yeah that's what I look forward to well you'll hear that next week it's weird though isn't it because I feel like I try like I know what you mean it does sort of enhance life in general but you know how you just don't, like you try and keep swearing away from children for so long.

39:04Also, like, do you not find like, so I love swearing, but when I hear a child swear, I hate it. Like, it freaks out. Oh, the parents. The parents. I know. Like, I literally am like, we never have anything wrong with swear words. We just, we keep Gracie totally away from them. And then the other day she came home from school and she was like, Ava's told me, mummy, what the F word is. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? And she was like, what a unit. And I was like, oh God, no, I was like, okay, well, don't worry about it. And she was like, I just, I can't believe I know what it is.

39:34And I know this word anyway. And I was like, okay, Gracie, just, okay, do you want to say it? Do you just want to say it? Get out of your system. And she went, fudge. And I was like, what? You're fudge. She said, I didn't even know it was a swear word. Why is it a sweet? And I was like, oh my God. So she thinks that the F word is fudge. That's genius. That's brilliant. There's a brilliant column by John Ronson. You know, the writer John Ronson was. She used to do a weekly column, I think, in The Guardian I was over. And one of them was about how, dealing with his son finding about the word cunt.

40:05It was a hilarious thing about how he lied to him about what it really means, all this, that and the other. Yeah, it's hilarious. Yeah, so what, because that's what I did. I was like, yeah, it is. And just, like, try not to say it too much, you know. Just try not to say it again. Because I obviously don't want her to know the word fuck now at seven. But yeah, it's mad. As if she doesn't already. She thinks it's fudge. Is there a massive disconnect between what parents think their children know? Maybe there is. And what they actually know in the play goes, she probably says... Don't. Oh, God. No, I can't bear it.

40:36She walks up to her little friends and goes, Motherfuckers! I'll throw her arm around them. It's crazy, isn't it? Because you're like, spending so much time being like, Don't swear, don't swear, don't swear. And then when you get older, everybody swears. It's inevitable. She's like, my fucking mother's on coke. I know, she had it all over her face taking me to school this morning. Don't. Oh, God. Anyway, that was this week's listener question. If you would like your question addressed on this particular podcast, and after that, why wouldn't you? The email address is postbag at pilottvpod.com. And if you have other things you want to talk about, then send them in.

41:11We do address many, many more things on Pilot Plus in the postbag. So, yeah, send them in. We want to hear from you. Okie dokie. Right. I think it is time for us to look at the news headlines. Steph, what have you found in the world of news? Well, so did you see that Colin from McCants, they've announced that the third season is going to be the final season. They did a really nice kind of Instagram thing. This doesn't surprise me, given that I own one of the props and they were auctioning them all off. Oh, yeah, that's a good point. If they had been doing another season, they'd have asked for my cat back.

41:44They probably would, yeah. Which I feel sad about. They did a really nice little bit on Instagram where they talked about it being over and they just were saying that they think that the characters, the arcs have come to the end and all that kind of stuff. So, you know, that's... I don't think it's a bad thing. Like, quit while you're ahead. I agree, I agree. New Robocop series is coming to Prime Video, which I'm very excited about. I love Robocop. Are you excited about that? Dead or Alive, you're coming with me. What? Eight episodes. How exciting is that? You do not care about it? The Joel Kinnaman Robocop film was not good.

42:15No, no, no, no. I'm a pure... Yeah, you're a purist. Absolutely. I forget that happened. Well, that's an example of a bad Robocop thing. The original, obviously, is a great Robocop thing. Peter Weller. Yeah, but we have to, you know, you have to be, I don't know, semi-sceptical. Peter Weller once gave me a classics lesson. Did he? Yeah. Oh, nice. He's massively into classics. And I believe he lectures in it at university. Wow. But I was, he was in Sons of Anarchy. You remember this? He was in Sons of Anarchy as the corrupt police officer. When I was on set of Sons of Anarchy, for whatever reason, he sat me down and talked at me about classics for about 45 minutes.

42:49I would have enjoyed that. It was fascinating. Yeah, I would have really enjoyed that. Yeah, he's really good. So Peter Okko is going to be exec producer, showrunner and writer on the series, which is going to premiere exclusive. He is from Lodge 49 and Pushing Daisies. Pushing Daisies is a great show. Brian Fuller. So it's going to follow, it's going to follow, right, okay, so it's going to follow the franchise's premise, which is good. That makes me happy. I mean, I'm surprised it's taken this long, to be honest, to do a Robocop film. Me too. There must be a reason behind that. Robocop series.

43:17Me too, maybe. This is eight parts, eight part series. You're very excited about the eight parts, aren't you? Yeah, because I think that, you know, that's a good... Eight is good. Ten is too many quite a lot of the time. Eight is a good number. Sometimes. Nine is a strange number. It is a strange number. Why would you ever do nine? I think eight or ten. Well, the chart is nine unless... Unless there is a tenth that I don't know about. Oh, that would be interesting. Okay, I don't want to start a fight, but I will just say that Will Ferrell's The Hawk is number two on Netflix charts. Oh, that's no indicator of quality.

43:48Exactly. I mean well it's an indicator of how many people are watching it so no I mean judging by Netflix's metrics it's an indicator of how many people walked into the same room where it happened to be playing maybe on a screen on someone's phone I mean I said I didn't want to find it to be honest even if it is even if everyone in the world watches it it's utter shit I mean I watched a couple more okay based on the fact that I said you know if you love Will Ferrell you'll love it and I maintain that if you like Will Ferrell this will not be awful for you it is awful for me it makes it worse for me because I really like him it's like when someone you really like makes something that bad it's painful it adds to the pain if I didn't give a shit about it then I'd be fine but that's the worst thing about it anyway but yeah by the way the show the mystery show that you hate this week no spoilers do you prefer the hawk to that?

44:37yes I would watch the hawk for 24 hours wow straight rather than that show you said on Pilot Plus last week by the way that you were going to talk to us about Ride or Die that you've been watching. You didn't mention that in what you've been watching. Well, no, because what I wanted to talk to you about Ride or Die is the fact that what I've been seeing is that a lot of female reviewers have been getting behind Ride or Die. It's all about the females. And several people have contacted me via the Instagram, my Insta pilots, to say they loved Ride or Die. All girls, all the ladies. And I think that the crux of this is this leans heavily towards females.

45:17It's got a lot of jokes geared towards females. And this is a female show for women to enjoy. And it's not for you, Boyd. So my point is, it's not that it's not good because it is brilliant, but it's just not for you. Brilliant's quite a strong word. You, on my side, let's not. I still think it's good, but I think brilliant might be overselling it. Anyway. Brilliantly entertaining. Back to news. Back to news. Go on, yeah, I finished. There's just news with Steph this week. I finished. I finished my news. No, no. I have one I've got the best headline oh okay well then you go because this week's outstanding variety headline involves your two's favourite show oh I know what it is because that was my other piece of news Ed Harris yes Ed Harris felt quote misled by Dutton Ranch about inconsequential role colon get me the fuck out of here yes I cannot this is the greatest news story of the week I can't quite believe but do you know what it's based on okay so it's based on the fact that he was told he was one of the main four.

46:15Oh, sorry, go on. You go, go, go, go. No, no, you just hijack it. Yeah. Ed Harris, Ed Ranch, Dunn Harris, at the Monday night premiere of Apple TV's The Dink, which is a made-for-TV film, by the way, which is, I don't know if you can review it on Empire or Pilot. We'll be reviewing that. We are reviewing it. He revealed that he felt misled about the importance of his role in the Yellowstone spinoff and halfway through filming season one, he was telling his team to get me the fuck out of here. Prior to signing on for it, I was talking to quite a bit about what the season was and what my character was going to do and that was one of the four main characters Harris said and that really wasn't the case spokesman spokespeople for Paramount series creator Taylor Sheridan and 101 Studios did not immediately respond to Variety's quest of comment and nor did Steph and James who are the cheerleaders of this frankly outrageous show that's treated Ed Harris like a piece of shit I think but he has signed up for season two and also he thinks they're going to write the wrongs.

47:13That's what he's kind of said. He said, what really pissed me off, to tell you the truth, is the first episode or the second, they told me before I got to sign on that you get to sing in the bar and they cut it. And that, for me, is the greatest thing about this. There was a scene where Rip tells him to go up and sing and they cut that scene and that's the thing that's upset him the most about it. I mean, fair enough. Ed Harris is a scary fan. He's terrifying. As anyone who's seen Westworld will attest, he is terrifying. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know if you cross if you cross the Harris it could be over I think Taylor Sheridan's making out to him I wouldn't worry about it I think it's fine but yeah I'm really surprised at how crazy he's publicly crazy he's gone about this yeah that's interesting isn't it it is he doesn't give a shit it's like it feels like a nothing to lose but it's like Taylor Sheridan is the same Taylor Sheridan says what the fuck he wants that's true pissing off Paramount and you know the owners of the network but Taylor Sheridan's not directly involved in Dutton Rant so we won't get a report from him that's true No, he's not.

48:12He's not. I've got another funny headline. This is from Jacob Elordi. And he said, Jacob Elordi spent two days locked in a coffin with a real snake for euphoria death. Colon, Sam Levinson brought me back to torture me. So, Jen, if you've seen, if you sat through Euphoria season three, as I did, Your favourite show. you will know that sequence, which is pretty unbearable to watch. Two days? Yes. It's a lot, isn't it? That's method gone mad. That's fucking insane. Yeah. And it's really not worth it because it's a terrible scene. Oh. Terrible way to die. The biggest news of the week was, of course, especially in the wake of the Odyssey, in which when Telemachus goes off on his little mini quest, he is accompanied by the ghost of Sparta himself, Kratos, God of War.

48:54Yes, we can say this because he's in the film. It's fine. Because it's Ryan Hurst, who was playing Kratos in the God of War TV show. He is no longer playing Kratos. He has left the show due to an injury. And there was lots of speculation that actually, is it because people, you know, remember the first image from God of War came out and people did not go well. Is he the bearded guy? Yes. People did not like him. But this has nothing to do with that. Apparently, from what I'm saying, he tore his bicep really badly and it's a really nasty injury and that's why they had to pause production. But actually, he's now out of the show.

49:23So they're now going to have to look for a new Kratos, which means they'll have to reshoot the two, I think it's two or is it four episodes they've already shot, and then continue. But I'm saying this is an opportunity. Chris Judge, make it happen. Chris Judge is the one and only Kratos and he is the one that they should bring in to replace Ryan Hurst. So Ryan Hurst, of course, is great. He was a good choice. But Chris Judge is the OG Kratos. Just because he ripped his bicep, does that really keep you up for that long? Apparently, it's quite upsetting. Oh, because of the lifting. That's pretty bad.

49:49I don't know. I don't think it was, oh, I've pulled a muscle. I think it was probably something quite major. Okay. So, yeah. But Chris Judge is Kratos. Let's make it happen. Okay, hold on. I don't think I know who Chris Judge is. So Chris Judge, you will, of course, know him from Stargate SG1 where he played Dielk. Oh, God, definitely get him on. And crucially, he does the voice of Kratos in the recent games. Well, then he should 100 % be doing it. And he has the most amazing kind of rumbling, bassy voice. And he's just fantastic. I know exactly who it is now. 61. So I would love them to use it.

50:22And also, he's supposed to be old in this. He's supposed to be an older Kratos. So I think it's great. I think he'd be fantastic. Is there a groundswell of support for Chris Judge doing it? Or is it just you? I would think so. I don't imagine I'm alone here. So we'll see. Okay. Maybe I am. You've been alone before. It's true. Yes, that is true. That is true. Right. Any other news? No. No? We've exhausted news. For now, anyway. Oh! No, no, no. It's fine. Boyd considered making something up, or we're going to move on. Okay. Outrageous. Let's move on to this week's reviews, and otherwise known as Spot the Show That Steph Hated.

50:57Okay? Right. And we're going to begin this week with The Vampire at Lestat, which comes to BBC Two just after it finished on AMC in the US. This is at once the third season of Interview with a Vampire, while simultaneously being the first season of The Vampire Lestat because the series has had something of a kind of a soft reboot here as it moves on from the first book in Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles, Interview with the Vampire, to the second book, The Vampire Lestat. So it shifts perspective from Louis to Lestat, but it also, in the TV show at least, has pivoted from a kind of gothic romance to more of a camp glam rock satire.

51:35So the Vampire Lestat, the character here, fantastically played by Sam Reid, has developed a thing for performing in tight leather trousers in addition to the blood drinking and the, you know, historical reminiscence. And this, like the previous seasons, has been lauded since its US release. But the question is, did we love it here? So, Boydie, did this particular vampire show suck? Lauded by who? Well, it's got 98 % on Rotten Tomatoes. It is storming it on your favourite, Boydie, Metacritic. and has been hailed as not just the best season of the show so far but as one of the boldest reinventions of a series in recent memory big words yeah I enjoyed it how many did you watch?

52:18only one I enjoyed it but so it's very I like the original series as well not as much as you did no I think it's wonderful they did a really good job I'm sorry I'm sorry the two seasons before this you thought one show yes without a doubt five star I gave it five stars in Empire Magazine is that a clue? five stars five stars sorry just to be clear that's the most stars something can get wow that's interesting you're already do you think we've got a winner Boydee? I know we'll see maybe maybe so yeah the TV series I think they did a really good job because I remember we've had this with the film I think the film was massively disappointing considering Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise I think it's good but ironically it's a bit fangless.

53:04It's fangless because it doesn't really because it doesn't really address the sexuality No, it's a queer romance and they really kind of shelved that because it was the night. And when the TV series went full on into the sexuality which you are reminded of we are reminded of as viewers of episode one of this new season with extended flashback kind of montages to the music of the band that Lestat has cobbled together. In fact, the scene where he joins the band is actually hilarious where basically he hears across the way from where he lives. He goes full Larry David. He goes full Larry David and he storms in, grabs the guitar, smashes it and then starts playing with them as you do.

53:42And they're all like, oh, what's going on here? That is a very funny scene. Now, whether it's intended to be that funny, I'm not sure. And this is the question. I have a bit of a James style genre kind of classification tonal shift issue. There's a big tonal shift here. It's a big tonal shift because there are elements of this first episode I mean, it's got Eric Boghossian in his back, and I quite like the way, so the whole original series was framed as it is in the book, as an interview with the vampire. It's literally being interviewed by this writer slash journalist, played by the great Eric Boghossian, who, by the way, is a proper hero.

54:16He's a fantastic actor and comedian back in the day. Such a shame he was in this. Legend. Oh, it's all coming out now. You see, you're jumping the gun. Yeah, but things are starting to come clear. so I quite like the clever way they introduce him in this show I quite like the beginning where there's these there's these it's like a big kind of like weird auction going on and I thought that scene was quite interesting and kind of visually arresting so I kind of enjoyed it mostly and the whole shift towards it being about a kind of modern day David Bowie slash Mark Boland slash that character slash slash slash Ewan McGregor played in that film where he wasn't David Bowie, but he was David Bowie.

55:03I thought that was all interesting. But you know, the big problem for me was... Everything. No, I didn't hate it, interestingly, because clearly you did, which we'll get to in a second. I didn't hate it at all. But the big problem for me, and I think the big mistake they made, is having so much of the fucking music. And I've used the word... No autotune as well. They deliberately made Sam Reid just carry it. It's painful. the music is shit I mean it's driven me to swearing more than I normally would in the review section I think they've released an album have they oh my god honestly it's terrible it's irritating it's he can't sing so he does this kind of annoying speak talk singing which is just irritating they have too much of it there's one bit halfway through there's quite a long bit of it early on and then about halfway through there's fucking a whole song you know this is not good don't and what kind of person unless you're a devotee of this show, as James is particularly, and clearly lots of its fans elevated it so high in Rotten Tomatoes and whatever, Metacritic, but for a normal kind of person interested in the show, quite liked the original novel on which this was based, and would carry on watching it, don't put a whole fucking terrible song in the middle of your first episode and expect me to carry on watching it through that misery, and worrying that there's more songs like this, especially now you say there's a fucking album of it as well, in the rest of the series.

56:24It's a real turn-off. I don't think so you know for the casual viewer or for the semi-casual viewer I think they should have got rid of those fucking songs all we need to see is 10 seconds of them maximum and we get what kind of pop star he is and we understand that but yeah it really ruined it for me the music element the rest of it I thought was fine and decent but I'm intrigued to know why Stephanie Seeland clearly thinks this is so awful do you know what ruined it for me every single second I had to watch it wow I I think this is... You must be surprised, James, because I bet you didn't think that was...

56:58I genuinely didn't. Initially, I thought it's this one, this one, and then I thought it was a different one. Yeah. But, okay, I wasn't going to say it was this. Unleash hell. I think this is the worst television show that I have ever seen. I've ever seen in my life. And I'm just going to list some of the things I hate about it. Is The Hulk number two? No, it isn't. It should be. It's got loads of devices that I absolutely despise. Text speak on screen. Fucking hate it. I absolutely get it. Do you mean text appearing on screen? Yeah, text appearing on screen. But that's why every show does that.

57:34No, no, no. I've got a long list. Don't worry. There's other things. Breaking the fourth wall, which is not my bag at all. And especially breaking the fourth wall when you're a terrible fucking shit vampire who's heading up a... Yeah, he talks directly. Doesn't he? No. Yes, he does. There's a narration. No, there's points. By which there's way too much of, of course. No, there's points where he really... No, there are points where he was talking to me and I wanted him to stop. I don't remember that. I don't remember that either. Because you hear him talking to you because the whole idea, like the device here, is he's not being interviewed, but he has essentially narrated his whole life and had it pressed into vinyl, called it the failure.

58:13So you hear him essentially reading aloud from the chapters of his life. But he doesn't look to camera and speak at it. He does. He looks to camera when he's in the apartment. He looks to camera. I'm going to find that bit. Okay, we'll take your word for it. Right. But even then, you didn't like Fleabag? No, Fleabag is something different entirely. But let's not go from a great show. I'm going to interrupt every single one of you. How many have you got? Okay, so, yeah. Showing text, chats, breaking the fourth wall. Yeah, allegedly. All of the singing. All of the singing. All of the singing. We're fairly aligned on that.

58:45All of the terrible singing. Absolutely. um Z Z Z Z Z Z Z

59:17the whole kind of like was like that for a whole, like, Yeah, I know. I was going to mention Science of Thrones because this guy does look weirdly like him, doesn't he? He looks weirdly like him. Which is unfortunate. What, Ted Levine? Yeah, he looks like Ted Levine. Really, Sam Reid? Yes, he does. I mean, they've both got long blonde hair, but I don't see the similarities. He's got a weird accent as well, which doesn't help. Well, he's French. Well, okay. The sex, the sex, the vampire sex scenes are also, like, they're just not, there's nothing sexy about them. Like, and we've seen some great sex scenes.

59:43How many episodes did you watch, by the way? Oh, my God. I watched one episode and I was so upset. In that, there were montages, really, of previous vampire sex scenes. Was there actually a new vampire sex scene? There's definitely, I can't remember if it's in episode one, but there's a sex scene in the lift scene. Oh, it's like, yeah, there's a sex scene in the lift. Oh, yeah, you're right, you're right. Am I supposed to find this funny? It's not funny. Is this supposed to be like a mockumentary? It's shit. Like, the singing's terrible. It has no redeeming features whatsoever. All of the actors are awful.

1:00:16They're all awful. they're all everybody yes and he's the one person I feel so sorry and he needs to get the fuck out of that show immediately because like Ed Harris in the Dunbar it is honestly he seems lost in it he's like bewildered in the show he honestly looks around as if like what the fuck am I doing I should never like my agent shouldn't have got me into this this is awful like even like there's a scene where he's in a corridor with a load of other vampires and the other vampires are rubbish like just all of it so nauseatingly crap I just like there's no it's like the story is terrible like oh God just never just don't watch it 98 % on Rotten Tomatoes I'm just saying and I do you know I really I'm completely bewildered because I do not understand what anyone likes but I mean I have you seen the previous seasons at all?

1:01:08any of them? no thank God so they're they're very different like the tone is not even in the same place well I I'd assume so because if they were like this it wouldn't be a third season, would it? It wouldn't. It just wouldn't. Okay, for those of you watching on YouTube, I have genuinely no idea why the Pilot TV branding in the studio has been replaced by Pete Wicks. It's quite funny, though, to have Pete Wicks overseeing Steph. Yeah. He looks a bit vampiric. He could be interviewed with a vampire. Perhaps it is the vampire, Steph. He's probably got the acting skills to be in it. I don't know why Pete Wicks man-made is now what's behind you, but we're going to have to roll with this because there doesn't seem to be any way to fix it.

1:01:45but anyway for those of you listening you won't notice it the other thing I just want to mention is do you know what I was like I was like god this is just like someone thought oh the darkness should make a show and we should add some fucking vampires in and then just yeah and then just add like some jokes that aren't funny in it and everyone will watch it I think that if it didn't have that extended use of the music in this episode you wouldn't hate it so much oh no I would I would the dialogues not the dialogue is just shit there was way I forgot to say you reminded me there was something sorry it's gone mad I don't know what's happened to the studio again if you are watching this on YouTube I don't know what's going on we've been taken over yeah the vampires are really upset with me that's what happened they were special powers I forgot about the overextended narration I'm with you there funnily enough there's another show coming up that I've seen that's heavily embodied that has a massive amount of narration with it also adapted from a novel and I do think it's a mistake with shows like this to rely so much on voiceover whether he breaks the fourth wall or not there's so much voiceover that it's like you're telling us everything that's going to happen and we need to see that for ourselves and I know in this because it is literally interviewed with a vampire so the framing device that he's being interviewed sure that's fine but to have him droning on and on and on is a real letdown So the two things, because I forgot to mention that narration, the narration and the music both, I thought, were a massive turn-off.

1:03:21But I have to say I am stunned that this is the show you hated so much. I'm just thinking of our disagreements, like Hawk, which is a grotesque monstrosity of a comedy that I would consider way worse than this. In terms of the classic, you know, for me, I judge a thing on what's it trying to, what's it setting out to do and how well does it achieve it? The Hawk is setting out to be funny. And it disastrously doesn't. And I'm only going on about it, because for me, this is setting out in this weird new turn for this show, for Interview with the Vampire, to have this character become a rock star.

1:03:55It's kind of an interesting idea, actually. And I quite like their depiction of it, of trying to dramatize this notion that this guy somehow becomes a rock star with his band and everything. It's just the way they've done it in the end, I found quite irritating. But there are a lot of elements of it that I was entertained and interested by. Really? So I'm kind of amazed that this is the show that you've really taken against. Interesting is such a byword for when something's shit but you don't want to say it's shit. This could be Steph's Widow's Bay moment. That's all I'm saying. No, it isn't. It could be.

1:04:26Because this is so bad. I'm judging it on right. It was such an assault for all the reasons, on the senses. There was nothing enjoyable about this show and I will watch anything. I will watch anything. I just found it so unenjoyable and unentertained. Like, it was just not, it didn't entertain me on any level. The music, like you say, the music, the narration, visually I wasn't, even like the vampire, the scenes with vampire fights, that's something that I would generally, kind of like, oh, that's quite fun. I thought they were terrible. The sex scenes, awful. I just, all of the dialogue is shit.

1:05:02There's only one, one line that I enjoyed and it came from, what's his name, the guy who's doing the interview and he was talking about wanting to win an Oscar and he says, I want to be shining my Oscar and slapping Chris Rock in the face. And that was the one thing I thought, oh, that's quite fun, you know. Yes, yes. That was topical. There's a topical reference really early on, isn't there, to MAGA, to Make America Great Again, almost in the opening line or opening paragraph. So I thought it was interesting to remind you that this is taking place in this year. Like, it's taking place now. How would this band...

1:05:36Don't you find his voice really... Oh, his voice is terrible. I have to admit, if they're constantly... Come to me. I have to... I agree with you to the extent... I don't agree with you about the show in general, but if you're going to have a storyline in which your main character becomes a rock star, get him to be able to sing, at least, yeah. I think that is a flaw in the whole plan. Get him to be interested. Not all rock stars can sing, to be fair. That is true. And he's not like he's a massive star at this point. Oh, yeah, that's true, isn't it? You have to bear that in mind as well. But he does become a massive star, does he?

1:06:01Well, that would be a spoiler. He must do, otherwise, what's the point?

1:06:08loyal to the books because the vampire Lestat does have him as a rock star and he is the brat prince. Like when you remember Interview with the Vampire, Lestat's kind of the villain of that story. And it's from Louis' perspective. And when Anne Rice wrote The Vampire Lestat, she shifted her sympathies towards Lestat. And you get, as part of this, a retelling of the events of Interview with the Vampire but from Lestat's point of view. And he has a very different take on it to Louis, which is quite fun. What they have done here, which is perhaps unusual and which some people I genuinely think maybe not have quite the strong reaction as you did, Steph, but the tonal shift is immense.

1:06:39To go from a quite serious, romantic, gothic feel to what does occasionally feel a bit spinal tappy, it's kind of like a slightly satirical look at rock and roll and he is very over the top and all of those things. I think Sam Reid is fantastic as Lestat. I think he's wonderful in this. Don't you think he's annoying? I don't love the tone of this. It has to be said, but it's not, I mean, because I do struggle with these tones. I like my shows to take themselves a little bit more seriously But the thing I will say is this is the framing device. The story is Lestat's history. And you don't really get into that until the second episode.

1:07:17And even then, it takes until the third episode for it to kind of kick off in earnest. So it front loads a lot of this rock stuff, which I think will put some people off, certainly. There is an extended urinal scene, which made me feel physically sick. I was like why am I and then he's explaining why vampires need a wee wee differently and they don't however much they wee and I was like I don't give a shit about this and then it labours on vampire urine going down the urinal I'm like I honestly I was like this is my life my life is draining before my very eyes watching this show the only other thing that I thought oh that's that's fun is when he mentions that there's feminine products in the hotel called Vampons.

1:08:05If there was one redeeming feature, it's when they mentioned Vampons, because that is funny. Yeah, I mean, I know why you have issues with it. If you break this down scene by scene, right, you will hate... I'm so surprised you find this enjoyable. Not just Boyd, and the vast majority of the critics, to be fair. I think, by the way, I think the acclaim, the level of acclaim it's got is wild. But again, I'm not sure you can judge it at this stage because, I mean, you've said this many times, the first episode here isn't hugely representative of the show as a whole. Oh no, but the whole series has gone out already.

1:08:43It has, but I'm saying from your perspective, because you've only seen the first one, right? Oh no, no, no, yeah, but this is, well, this is going to have to, I read some of those reviews and this is going to have to climb, get a lot longer. They're in Everest. And also, in the second episode when we start seeing Lestat's childhood, it still maintains a very different tone to Interview with the Vampire. It still maintains a heightened tone, which is slightly satirical. I can see why Interview with the Vampire, the first two series, were so highly acclaimed. I just think the critics have slightly lost it when it comes to this one.

1:09:16But equally, it's not by any means terrible. It's by every means terrible. It's by every means terrible. I'm just saying this is the new Widow's Paper. I would be so it's 100 % not Widows Bay there's no way that it is that I didn't take against Widows Bay like this you've taken against Widows Bay I've really taken against this and I would love someone to tell me not either of you I would love someone to tell me why they think this is good well I'm going to watch the rest of this so once I've finished it I will report back but like you must have seen I haven't seen all of them yeah but you've seen enough I've seen three but it's only just really starting to get going but you don't think it's terrible No, I think it's great, but also...

1:09:56You think it's great? See? Yeah. You think it's great? If I were reviewing it at this stage, I'm currently in the four-star camp, not the five-star camp, but I'll see where it goes from here. But I also recognise, as someone who is personally quite sensitive to tone, and that's one of the things that I took against Widow's Bay for, it's stupid tone. Stupid tone? Well, no, no. Stupid tone? No, in the first episode, I did say, I did take it, look, I learned to love Widow's Bay and the tone, but the tone of this doesn't sit 100 % comfortably with me, and I can totally get, if I wasn't already a little bit in the tank for it, because I love the first two seasons, I love the book, so I'm already a little bit keyed into it.

1:10:32The tone did rub me up the wrong way a little bit. I kind of got a little bit accustomed to it as I go into episode three, and I much prefer the kind of like reminiscent stuff rather than the modern day rock stuff. But this will, you know, if I imagine what this is going to do, it won't just be this season, it'll be the Vampires of Stat, and then you've got to go into Queen of the Damned as well. So there's going to be tons of backstory and history, but you're also then going to go into then what quote unquote happens in the real world four stars are you joking James no I'm not it's really good listen I love Vampire Diaries as much as the next person Jesus Christ I think it's pretty good you've done it pretty good no you're just saying that now I'm not just saying that at all I'm genuinely amazed that this is the show you hated I would not we should have done a guessing game if you'd have asked me at the beginning of the show when we revealed that you hated one show this much I would not have guessed this one My money was on the one that's literally called Furious.

1:11:24I think this is a solidly well-made, you know, and it's an interesting, I think this novel, by the way, I think I remember her son Christopher kind of carried on the... No, well, the series, but I mean, she's written like tons of these. He picked up the... He carried on writing some of these books, didn't he? Yeah, some of her stuff is read, but that's much more fun. You should have left them where they were. Anyway, I digress. To be fair to you, Steph, the books do go off the rails. I would say once you get past Taylor the Body Thief, I'd give up, personally. I've already given up. I've given up on this.

1:11:59No, I enjoyed it. I did, by and large, enjoy it. With the massive flaws of the too much narration and the music. I don't think you can say you really enjoyed something if you are admitting that it has massive, massive flaws. No, because it's not all... Because if you take out the songs... But the music is such a massive part of it. It's central. We're both overusing the word massive. I know, I can't stop saying it now. It doesn't completely destroy the entire show. No, it doesn't. No, everything else destroys the show. Everything. Well, I think the rest of it is pretty decent. You said pretty good.

1:12:33Steph's opinion on this has literally broken the studio and I'm enjoying this enormously. You're amazed that I quite like it. I'm amazed that you hate it with this level of venom. Bottom line, it's well made. the production values are pretty good that does not a good show make to have great production values let's just talk about I mean we could talk about flipping whatchamacallit Waterworld thingy Westworld whatever it was I really like Waterworld oh you mean Westworld the show Westworld the show that's had high production values people hated it yeah but they were wrong it's great the original first companies of Westworld were highly acclaimed everyone that does not a good show make like technical brilliance does not a good show make you're right but technical brilliance can help a show It doesn't help it here though Well I think it does help it here It doesn't Quite a lot Because I think No Anyway But I'm amazed That you hated this much I'm genuinely surprised And I'm just going to let you know That I phoned Kay And she was like Oh god She definitely wouldn't have liked it She was like that fucking vampire show And I was like yeah I said yeah Can you believe it I had to phone her Because I was so angry About watching it I was like oh my god We're watching this terrible show And she would agree with me Just saying Well This genuinely has to point Even though Kay dropped a vampire emoji into the chat.

1:13:46I thought she was guessing. I still didn't think it was this show. Why would you not think it was this show? It's awful. Well, there are so many things wrong with the next show that we're going to review that I assumed you'd take against that. But, right, right. Let's move on. Interview with De Pan by then. I don't know what you're going to make of that. BBC Two. Yeah. By the way, it's interesting, it is a BBC, BBC have got this deal with, who makes it? It's AMC. AMC, because they showed Interview with De Pan by then. And it finished last week. And then obviously now Yeah, and now you can watch the whole thing.

1:14:16On BBC. All episodes. You can binge. You can binge it, Steph. On the basis of this show, I'm going to be asking for my license fee. Well, I'm just saying. I mean, fair enough. Some of your license fee has gone on acquiring this show. Yes, it has. You have paid for this. Yeah. And you can see it all in full from the BBC on the iPlayer from Tuesday the 28th of July, 9 o 'clock, and live on BBC2 that evening. Yeah. Well, we'll have to get into this because I will try and watch all of it while I'm away and then feedback. Oh no, I don't want to talk about it anymore. I'm going to watch more of it as well.

1:14:50Just to spite you. I really, yes, really hate it. I want to see this breaking the full thought. It does, it does. When he's in the thing. God, don't make me watch it again. Don't make me watch it again. God damn it. Just to prove a point. Anyway, anyway, next up we have the show that I thought had elicited rage from Steph because it's literally called Furious on Disney+. This is created and written by Elizabeth Merriweather of New Girl and The Dropout fame. And this sees Emmy Rossum as an FBI agent on the trail of a female serial killer. Now, as I said, I had a strong suspicion that this would be the show that set Steph off.

1:15:26Clearly, I was mistaken. But in addition to the vampire stat, did this make you furious? Oh, this is shit as well. Oh, my God. So they're two in one. Yeah, but no, this is no way. Like, I'd rather watch this than that. But this has got so many of those kind of really tired woman, like detective-finding serial killer tropes. I mean, look, don't get me started on her hair, for one, you know? She has curly hair. I really like Emmy Rossum, but when she's doing anything that's seemingly unreasonable, the wild hair comes out. It's like, Jesus. And when she's in All Official, she's tying the hair and she's slicking it back on.

1:16:03Just that kind of stuff just feels so tired. Sorry, anyway, have you explained what this is about? I mean, more or less. So, Lola Petticrew plays the serial killer. Yeah. Oh, God. This is... Right. There's not a lot of singing in this one, so there's that. The problem with this... Okay, yeah, there's many problems with this. Emmy Rossum's hair, for one, okay? Scoot McNary's in it, and you ruined him for me with Man on Fire, because now I'm like... You're just waiting for him to be the real killer, aren't you? I'm waiting for him to be dodgy. yeah the girl that's right when you've got someone who's slightly psychotic okay who is completely psychotic like the serial killer in this is psychotic there's got to be something like kind of kooky or interesting about them and this girl just is sort of a bit boring a bit of a boring psychopath do you know what I mean she's just kind of a blonde psychopath that employs wigs and she like manipulates red head yeah she employs wigs and she manipulates people with her sexual prowess I mean stop me if you've heard it before before because we have.

1:17:07I'd describe her she's an annoying serial killer. Oh, she's massively irritating. But when you have male serial killers and this isn't always a rule but oftentimes they're portrayed as in some way charming but you see like a hint of like a shadow of oh actually there's something. She is so obviously villainous to anyone who even walks past her. Like it's so dialed up. Yeah. And I wonder if they're doing that because they think because she's a female serial killer they need to make her completely batshit. Yeah, I don't know what they're thinking about any of this really um yeah um i just there's loads of kind of unbelievable elements to it and just even the way that she tracks down all this these these men and the serial killer finds her she needs to find work and then she gets to all this i don't want to give away the spoiler of what why she's serial killing all these people because probably you won't care and you won't watch any more of it because it's not very good um but yeah it's predictable even the Emmy Rossum's got her character's got a backstory and the backstory is she was working on the force but something happened and when she comes back all the police officers to the crime scene they're all like fuck you fuck you and it's just so tired it's not as good as a single episode of a police procedural and that I don't do you know what's really good the artwork on it like Emmy Rossum's face the artwork for it is lovely oh you mean like the adverts Yeah, but it makes it look like it's good and it's not.

1:18:33That's the whole point. That's the nature of marketing, isn't it? Marketing, great. Marketing, marketing, five stars. Content, one. I don't even, I can't even, do you know what? It was also so boring. I can't even think of any good, it's really boring, isn't it? I agree. They really, they really fucked this up. Which is why this was my favorite for you. Because it's a crime story, right? it's a serial killer and by the way serial killers are back right because you've got The Dark which are the aforementioned Dark on ITV which we reviewed recently The Shards coming up is a serial killer story the British Nellers show and there's another one that I can't think of recently anyway this is a new mini revival of the serial killer thriller which I am fully in favour because I love the serial killer but you know a show you know a film a serial killer film or TV show is going the wrong route when you have a moment which this does have where one of the characters says to the other you know what we've got in our hands here is a serial killer and it's like we understand that's the premise of the show we know there's a serial killer within the first 10 seconds you don't have to and I thought that summed up that no one in this production team not one of the writers in the writers room or none of the showrunners no one the actor say don't have that line it's awful it's cheesy it's terrible yeah every scene with Scoot McNary is like oh I can't even look all of the interrelations the woman who she meets halfway through who then introduces head of the sex crimes division head of the sex crimes division is irrationally furious with her for no reason whatsoever but then totally goes the other way and then she's like practically in love with her after about 10 seconds the scenes with Scoot McNary are just so cliched and embarrassing and then when I won't spoil it but there's a kind of there's an how should we put it there's a revelation about what she likes to do, the main detective of the show.

1:20:29And I thought that was so kind of cheap and lame attempt to try and be outrageous and provocative, right? It's trying to be provocative by having, oh, a female serial killer. And of course, they're vanishingly rare anyway. And then it's based on a film called Black Widow, which they actually mentioned in the title sequence. And the creator said, oh, she was watching Black Widow, this serial killer film from like the 90s. And I thought, oh, I could do something like that. And she asked. but the idea there are hardly any female serial killers as crime queen you would know can I just go back because I want to talk about that scene one of the things that I find is so fucking tired I can't bear it is you'll get a sex scene between a man and a woman and then inevitably what will happen is the woman will have to get a vibrator out oh my god I know it's such a fucking cliche that's what I was about to say oh well you can't satisfy me let me get my bright pink vibrator out and let's get someone to do the job that's what I'm saying It's trying to be outrageous with vibrators and edgy sex scenes, which aren't sex scenes.

1:21:29And sometimes the dialogue is a little bit edgy as well, but it's so contrived. I've used that C word all the time. No, but you're right. But it is. It's literally like you feel like someone's gone, FX, whoever made it, has gone, oh, let's do a female serial killer thing. A bit like Killing Eve. Think about it, because Killing Eve, I know Villanelle in Killipkin Eve was a trained assassin, but she's still a serial killer as well. and it kind of, it used those serial killer tropes brilliantly. It played on them. And the whole cat and mouse thing between the woman, the hunter and the hunted, this is trying to do the hunter and the hunted thing and it's so lame.

1:22:04It's so, you don't believe in the serial killer character for one second. And as I said, you were grasping for what word can you use it? She's just annoying. She's annoying. She's boring. And to have a serial killer be boring is quite an achievement. It is quite an achievement. Because she takes eight, there's a whole scene with Rob Delaney. Oh, why Rob Delaney? I love Rob Delaney. I know, I love Rob from Catastrophe, right? And he gets this terrible role to play. I know, why would he say yes? They drag that scene out so long to the end of your tether. And you're like, this whole story could be done in four episodes and you've given it however many, eight, I think at least.

1:22:38It's too long. It's too cliched. It's trying too hard all the way through. It's a massive failure. It's a massive letdown because I was looking forward to it. And that's why I thought this was the show you hated. How wrong could I have been? No, no, no, I do hate it. I do hate it. To the extent to which you hate the Vampire the Stat. No, no, no, nothing could come that close. Vampire the Stat is much better than this. Okay, whoa. We have nine minutes left of this show before we get thrown out of the studio. So I'm going to say let's... Did you hate it? Yes, it's terrible. For all the reasons you say, I thought this would have enraged you because the tropes and the way it tries to depict a female serial killer, I thought it would rub you up the wrong way.

1:23:16Oh, it really has. Catastrophically. It really has. Yeah. I think Emmy Rossum is genuinely good in this. Yeah, she is good. I think she is the only good thing in this. She is really good. Hair on, whatever you think of her hair, she manages to sell the idea that she is doing what she's doing. Yes. I mean, she is, yeah, they lucked out with her. And she's exec producer, and I thought, well, that makes sense, because you've made sure your role is brilliant, or at least she gives you the juicy stuff to do, which you believe in, but everyone else in it is. Brilliant is a stretch, I think. I mean, I like Emmy Rossum, Yeah, brilliant is a stretch, but the show is utter.

1:23:44She's very good. I will always have time for Emmy Rossum, because I interviewed her when she did Poseidon, and when we got into the interview, I mentioned that I was hungry and she ordered me some chips. Oh, wow. That is brilliant. Which I thought was an extraordinarily nice thing to do. So she gets a free pass from me always. She's a delight. I've watched a lot of interviews with her when I knew I was going to watch this. And she is absolute delight. She's wonderful. This podcast could be called Actors Who've Made Bad Decisions About Shows because that's how it feels. Yeah, it's terrible. Don't watch it.

1:24:13Anyway, Furious, which made all of us exactly that, is on Disney+. It's brilliantly titled, isn't it? I know. It's like, what do you expect? Furious. When is it on, Boydie? Oh, sorry. Furious is on Monday, today, the 27th of July, Disney+. Finally this week, we have The Rapture, based on the book by Liz Jensen, and this sees Ruth Maidley as a psychologist, and she's working in a high-security hospital where she comes across a young woman who is currently sectioned for the murder of her mother, but who also claims to receive clairvoyant messages from the beyond. Now, Boydie, if we can get past the fact that Ruth Jones is also in this, making you horribly compromised by this whole endeavour.

1:24:47Yeah. Were you rapturous about this? I was scared because of the whole domination of which show is Steph going to hate. Yeah, you thought it might be this. I thought it could be this. I was pleased to let it be this. But I can see someone take against it because there's a lot going on in this. You've got this mad young woman, mad in heavy quotes, you've got this young woman who's incarcerated for killing her own mother, which she vehemently denies she does. but she's clearly like not quite right. And then you've got the new shrink arriving in this institution who decides to take upon herself to talk to this young woman because she thinks she can bond with her.

1:25:27And I find sometimes, and this isn't the case here, I'm just talking about in general, that kind of, you know, Hannibal Lecter talking to Jodie Foster kind of vibe. You know, you're interviewing someone scarily dangerous and she has to have that main character, Bethany, has to have a security guard with her at all times because she's so dangerous. It's her nurse, it's her head nurse that she has with him. with her, yeah. Oh, okay. Is his security as well? No, he's an orderly. Oh, okay. That's fairly common, I think. I've got to start taking notes. Ruffie, yeah. And then, so then, Ruth Bader's character arrives to intriguingly sort her out.

1:25:59Then you've also got the fact that her dad, the young woman's dad, is the head of a weird, religious, cult leader. Cult lead, cult. And he's really creepy and horrible, played by Sam Hazeldean. And then you've got a journalist who's so alcoholic that he literally cannot stop drinking in every single scene played by Iwan Rion who by the way I did the thing with Lars Higgins a really lovely guy I love him he's brilliant and how was his involved somewhere he was investigating the cult and is he investigating the 17 year old girl who may or may not have killed a thing and then in the end you're like there's a big is it or isn't it supernatural is she doing these weird drawings the 17 year old girl to mean anything or are they just kind of figments of her imagination that she's drawing or in fact is everything happening in this show leading to the rapture and the apocalypse and the end of the world as we know it yes That is a lot, but I have to say, they pulled it off.

1:26:48I think they really pulled it off. And I think the detail all the way through, this is one, you know, I go back to my judgment of shows, which is, if I believe in the first few minutes that this could actually happen, and Ruth Mady sells it so well, you believe she is a forensic psychologist, you believe the scenes with Ruth Jones as her shrink work really well as well. But you believe the premise, even though it is quite far out there, and by the end of it it's way far out there but it does a very clever job of slowly building to the point where you're reaching a level of hysteria in terms of the possibilities that this is detailing of the end of the world by the end of the thing and how topical is it by the way that we're watching this show which features a scorchingly hot heat wave in our scorchingly hot heat wave and I thought that that is kind of helping it feels it's almost the opposite of the dark which felt too cold and wintry this feels perfect it's definitely a summer show and it literally to the point where it's shimmering they've got this every single outdoor shot has a shimmering effect to show just how fucking hot it was so I'm fully on board I love Richard Maidley I love Ruth Maidley she's no relation to Richard I think she's brilliant you'll have seen her in Doctor Who she's in lots of exit shows she's brilliant this is a great lead role for her and she pulls it off magnificently I'm really enjoying it and I will absolutely carry on watching it to the end because I want to know how it all plays out yeah I this is a great example of how you put it brilliantly you can throw so much a show and not pull it off but they've thrown so much of this and they've absolutely this is fantastic Ruth Mayley's incredible if I'd had more time I would have watched all of these this is a show I would have watched every single one because I just didn't see this coming you really are surprising us on every one this week I was completely I believed in every character I was completely I love anything with a cult in that's kind of my bag I do love a cult you love a good cult yeah I do love a cult I just I think you're right Ruth Mayley is so sensational and believable and I think she underplays I know you've made mention of the Silence of the Lansing but I think she underplays that role that psychotherapist role so well it's so unbelievable and yeah I just there's the only thing that I slightly found annoying about it was the point where she has to you know where the visions are coming to her and you know she seemingly does just a couple of waves of her big pen and then you get this masterful drawing that is really nitpicky that is ridiculous I thought it was really original I found it thrilling and also it made me a bit scared because I was like oh it's just it's perfectly positioned I think to not be too outlandish to be like oh actually this could happen I should also quickly mention Jack Farthington Jack Farthington who normally plays kind of psychotic quite villainous people he seems to be playing a really nice guy but who knows in the first episode at least who's kind of like romantically attracted to Ruth Maitland's character.

1:29:41Yeah, but that I love. I think this is kind of expert mystery building for me. That's what I really liked about it. I feel like James isn't quite on board. No, I mean, expert is a big word. It's fine. It's an expert mystery building. It's okay. I quite liked it. I can now not take anything you say seriously because you are a vampire Lestat lover. And I just can't. I'm accusing him of being a vampire. Because you are a vampire. As a vampire apologist, you will not take my opinion on this. That's fair. That's entirely fair. No, I thought it was decent. I got much more engaged with it when the supernatural stuff, or may not be, started to assert itself.

1:30:21I quite enjoyed that. I just think that to have those kind of scenes, those, if you will, the Silence of the Lambs scenes, where you're having someone face off against someone who is scary, and it's about the shifting power dynamics and whatnot, they're really hard to pull off convincingly, and I think this is quite hit and miss with those. I think it's okay, but also it feels a little bit laid on, a little bit thick at times and not quite going forward enough. They were a bit mixed for me. But by the end of the first episode, most of my reservations were put aside and I was like, you know what, this is actually pretty good.

1:30:52I can get on board with this. So I did like it, but I would not call it expert mystery building. Expert mystery building. Thank you, Boyd. Thank you. Journeyman mystery building. No, no, no. No, no, no. I think it's really well done. And it's not just because I'd watched two hours of utter shit before I watched this. Okay, well, that is The Rapture, and it is on BBC One. It started yesterday, Sunday, the 26th. I think it's on again tonight, and I think it'll be on iPlayer in full. Yeah, and I'd just like to say, all you vampire people, come for me. I don't mind. I don't mind. Please say anything you like.

1:31:27Yeah, I don't... You know what? You will be wrong, but I will hear it. It's the new Widow's Bay. It is. It's 100 % not. What else is out this week, Boydie? what we missed. We've got Gamora, The Origins, on Sky Atlantic, and now on Tuesday, the 20th of July, 2026. Gamora, of course, absolute classic, original crime show. And I watched a bit of this and I think it looks really good, actually. There is Benidorm is Murder, which is a crime, a cosy crime thing set in Benidorm with John Hanna as a bar owner who also becomes an investigator into crimes. Don't bother. I'm just going to show you the cover of Total TV Guide.

1:32:09Look, that is the picture of him they chose to use on the cover. I mean, he just looks dreadful, doesn't he? Terrible hair. I can't believe you're coming for John Hammer. I mean, yeah. Well, you're right then. Yeah, I just don't think, I think that was an error. Then, what else have we got? And they chose that for the cover, that show for the cover. Well, you know, I'm not with the cosy crimes. I think that might be about it. Lioness Season 3 is on Paramount Plus on Sunday Sunday you're right and do you know what finally the new series of Van der Volk is on ITV on Sunday as well and I had the funniest moment of the week for me was when I was Edith Kay previewed it for me for Heat Magazine the new series of Van der Volk and in the middle of it she referred to the character as Van der Van der Van der De Volk she thought the name was Van der De Volk and that made me laugh it tickled me so much I had some messages saying you realise you've called Van der Vork Van der de Vork see isn't it Van der Vork it's the funniest thing I've seen today so yes if you appreciate Van der Vork Van der Vork when it goes out when it goes out on Sunday on ITV 8 o 'clock there you go okay James what is our pick of the week well it's definitely the rapture I don't think you should say it's definitely the rapture it's 100 % the vampire the statin you boy do know it you know it no I'm much different 98 % He doesn't know it.

1:33:34He knows it's The Rapture. The Rapture's really good. It's Bella. Are you really? Of course! Are you not just doing it to annoy me? No, only one of these shows am I going to watch through and it is The Vampire of the Stats. He's a huge fan of this whole thing, so yeah. I love vampires, but not this vampire. No, no, he's not a huge fan of vampires. He's a huge fan of this particular iteration of vampires. So you don't love vampires in general, you just love this stuff? You just love this show? I like vampire shows. I like vampire films. What other vampire shows do you like? Well, there aren't there.

1:34:00I mean, to be fair, I have actually watched The Vampire Diaries. The Vampire Diaries is great. Yeah, so I have actually seen that. Buffy the Vampire Slayer, enjoy that too. Exactly, so you like... I like a vampire, but I really love Interview with the Vampire. I think the first two seasons are spectacular and I'm willing to give this season the benefit of the doubt and even thus far, I am, like I say, I'm already in the four-star camp and I'm only three episodes in. He gave the originals five stars. This is the next new series of the show he's given five stars to. He's absolutely demented. I know.

1:34:25It's demented. It is demented. If you think I'm demented, do feel free to write in pilottvpod.com. That is it for this week's show. Please do follow us on Instagram. Instagram specifically. No one, as I've said, is on Twitter anymore. So just come and follow us on Instagram. It is at James C. Dyer, at Boyd Hilton, at Steph Sealand, at Pilot TV Pod. We could always use some more followers. And next week, stuff will be happening, but crucially, I'm not going to be here. Oh, for God's sake. So it's not really my problem. Is it, Boyd? Well, do you know what? Honestly, at this current moment, I feel like you and I need two weeks more.

1:34:59We need a break. We need a separation. We need a serious break. Hey, it was you and Boydie going at it over the vampire show. I sat out of it. I'm really getting angry with you at the moment. I like angry, Steph. It's really fun. I don't know why you're just making me so cross. You know, Steph, I've got to say, and I don't want to make you feel bad or anything, and I know we're on air and stuff, but I think you need to dial back on the coke a little bit because it's just making you quite angry. Okay, I will. Just, you know, the drugs. Yeah. I think you've got a problem. Okay, all right, babe. Oh, God.

1:35:25The milk bottles are really getting to you. The milk bottles are really getting to me. Right, okay. so what they will be doing on Pilot Plus and indeed the regular show who knows I will be looking forward to listening as a punter you don't give a shit I do you could not care less I always always listen to the show when I'm not on it throwing us to the wolves always I look forward to it when it drops I listen to it oh we need to figure out who's going to do the post bag yeah I'll leave that in your capable hands that is it from myself from Boyd and from a very very angry stuff season Pilot out you