Wonder Man, The Beauty, and Under Salt Marsh. With Ashton Kutcher, Jeremy Pope, Anthony Ramos, Evan Peters, Rebecca Hall, Kelly Reilly & Rafe Spall

7:27Rebecca Hall:Right, yes, but I watched, I started watching it because somebody wrote in for Piroplast and said, what do I think about? And I was like, you know what, I'm going to have a watch of that. So far, so good, guys. I'm just going to say. So far,

7:38Kelly Reilly:so good. It's a film. Did you not sit and consume it in one sitting?

7:40Rebecca Hall:No, because I'm very tired.

7:42Kelly Reilly:You should watch it in a little five minute like a series. I didn't have enough time

7:45Rebecca Hall:to finish it. Ben Affleck and Matt Damon

7:47Kelly Reilly:will be thrilled.

7:48Rebecca Hall:Yeah, look, I love those two together. So far, so good. I'm loving it. I will give you, on the next Pilot Plus, I'll give you my full review.

7:55Kelly Reilly:Here's a, I was about to say an interesting fact, but I believe that under trade descriptions that would be inaccurate. A fact about The Rip is that in the publicity shots for it, Ben Affleck is sitting at a table and they have digitally removed the cigarette from his hand for the publicity shot. but you can still see it in the reflection on the table so there's a reflection of a cigarette but no, add a cigarette. Good facts.

8:15Rebecca Hall:Good facts.

8:16Kelly Reilly:As Reacher says, details matter.

8:18Rebecca Hall:Oh, yeah.

8:19Kelly Reilly:Boydie, what have you been watching?

8:21Evan Peters:Apart from The Traitors which by the time this comes out on Monday, right? Yes. The final would have happened. Good jumpsuits

8:29Rebecca Hall:in The Traitors, by the way, by that guy. What's the guy who's wearing the good jumpsuits? I'll find out. Oh, the Scottish guy. Yeah. I mean, are they good though? What?

8:36Evan Peters:Well, the one that makes him look like an extra from Star Trek. sounds good to me I'm automatically interested not for me yeah he's also a bit irritating that guy I think I'm talking against him sorry by the time this goes out he'll have won yeah exactly and he'll just look like you're

8:52Rebecca Hall:jealous of his jumpsuits it's fantastic yeah

8:54Evan Peters:it has been a fantastic series as we sit here now on Wednesday the 21st of January 2026 there's three more episodes to go so in theory pretty much anything could happen and there's always always usually surprises it. And crucially, Boyd hasn't seen the finale so he cannot spoil it. No, no one's seen it. They don't send them out in advance or anything, thankfully. But it's very exciting. It's been very exciting. We have been left, the last eight, so they had like, in the last episode that we all saw, having said that, I was going to say, except for the Tracers, I'm now talking about it, but I feel like this is a safe space.

9:29Rebecca Hall:It's a safe space. It's a safe space.

9:31Evan Peters:I mean, the eight finalists are quite, a lot of them are some of the most boring people in the, you know, they started with like 22 of them. and that we're now down to a handful which are fairly dull. I did say this though, didn't I? That after Celebrity Traders, to go to this has got to be quite boring.

9:46Rebecca Hall:And so soon after as well, that's the thing. No, no, no.

9:49Evan Peters:This is a distinction I'm making. The show itself isn't boring. The show itself is still absolutely brilliant and they keep doing enough interesting, unusual things to keep the format fresh. But it just so happens that the finalists, and almost inevitably I think, if you're quiet and unassuming and you don't make a fuss, you kind of go under the radar. So you're saying the casting people should be fired? Not at all, no, no, no. I mean, it'd be impossible to have no people who end up being, all of them being alpha type personalities. Yeah, but it's a tactic, isn't it?

10:17Rebecca Hall:Just stay under the radar long enough.

10:19Evan Peters:Yeah, but we've had such mad... I can't remember whether you watch it or not. You don't watch it, do you?

10:24Rebecca Hall:No, I know I'm probably the only person like...

10:27Evan Peters:I mean, bring back Kay, you know, because she watches it.

10:30Rebecca Hall:I know, okay, but do you guys watch The Masked Singer?

10:33Evan Peters:Yes, I do watch The Masked Singer.

10:34Rebecca Hall:Well, that way we're wrong. Boyd watches everything. you can't win this particular fight.

10:38Evan Peters:Exactly.

10:39Kelly Reilly:You know, at certain times... No, no, there's nothing I'm against. No, I'm enjoying having a new ally in the room. This is exciting to me.

10:45Rebecca Hall:The thing is, I would watch The Traitors, but it's such a commitment, and, you know... Three shows a week for a month, it's not that big a commitment. Come on.

10:53Kelly Reilly:Steph, there are three seasons of Foundation, you don't have time to watch The Traitors. I mean, that's true.

10:56Evan Peters:Anyway, what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is that, yeah, a lot of the finalists are fairly dull, but it doesn't matter because it's still an exciting thing, and there are enough interesting finalists. And we've had some of the most bizarre, weird, eccentric people in the series so far. Like the author, you know, there's a crime writer in it.

11:16Rebecca Hall:Yes, I know about it, but I don't watch it.

11:20Evan Peters:She went completely bonkers and it was insane. And then there was a... It's just been full of madness. And to be fair to Claudia, when I hosted the launch of this series, Claudia promised that this would be the most extreme and twisted series and she's been right it's been so mad so anyway traitors haven't watched the final three three episodes by this time it goes out it'll all be done we'll talk about it in the next podcast maybe we'll do a spoiler special what else I've been watching is Things You Should Have Done which we mentioned last week in passing and the what else is on this is the second series of the comedy that is most famous let's face it and I wish I could stop saying this but it is true it's most famous for the fact that Joe Page on the podcast slagged it off

12:06Rebecca Hall:we love Jo Page

12:07Evan Peters:we love Jo Page she's brilliant as do most people seemingly out of character but it is I ended up watching the first three or four episodes of the second season which are on BBC3 now and it's really really funny it's just it's something about her performance the creator of the show Lucia Keskin called short for Chi on the show she's so understated playing an incredibly stupid character who is prone to just saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and kind of observes what's going on with that in the most innocent, naive way. It's such a kind of feckless is that the right word? Kind of like character and such an unaffected performance that it's just, I find it really, really funny and there's a slapstick moment, I think it's in episode three where she gathers at this flat in a block of flats trying to track down it's a long story drawings naked drawings of another character and there's this slapstick moment where she hits something and there's like you know the domino effect you know when you see all the dominoes toppling over they do that in a kind of like accidental slapstick way and it's just fucking hilarious I very rarely I've said this before I very rarely laugh out loud on my own watching every now and then there'll be a curb sequence I laugh out loud and be in general famously you never laugh out loud very very laugh out loud but this made me laugh out loud I was cackling like a fucking idiot and honestly because you might because the premise of the show is oh her family her parents died at the beginning and they gave her a list of things to do you know to kind of snap her out of her natural laziness so it's kind of like a bleak premise but the actual show itself is not in any way bleak it's not one of those oh we're tackling serious issues thing it's just really fucking funny and so I'm really enjoying it that series and it's got like great star guests this series and Bridget Christie is in it Sarah Kendall do you remember Sarah Kendall the Australian comedian who did that show Frayed she's in it and they have Bridget Christie and Sarah Kendall play exes and they're absolutely at each other's throats and there's another scene where they're throwing stuff at each other in a food bank it's also hilarious I can't get enough of it so it's really funny things you should have done BBC3

14:24Kelly Reilly:the only criticism I will make about that show is it does have an annoyingly generic title which is almost impossible to remember

14:31Evan Peters:I was absolutely going to mention this it's a terrible title it's a terrible title and I know it's the premise

14:35Kelly Reilly:just like nobody wants this you know the other the other thing about it terrible title

14:39Evan Peters:the other thing about it the premise they've completely ditched the premise now it's just her having escapades and adventures with mad people so you never know you never know that it's all started with her parents telling her these are the things you should do things you should have done it's just gone so yeah it's a terrible title 100 % it's kind of almost off-putting I think the other thing I've been watching is is the Netflix phenomenon that is his and hers.

15:03Rebecca Hall:Oh, right. Okay, so this his and hers. You know the other week where everyone... I'm sure one of you said the other week that it wasn't good.

15:12Kelly Reilly:It has been annihilated critically.

15:14Rebecca Hall:Everybody's talking about it. It's like number one. No, no, I haven't. How do you know? Hang on. No, no, no. I have watched it. Right, I'm just going to say, I didn't watch it. So when I went onto Netflix, which is how I ended up watching The Reality of the Biggest Loser, I was like, right, what shall I dip my toe into? And you two have been like, oh, you know, critics are panning it. So I thought, I'm not going to waste my time watching this. I'll watch this documentary.

15:38Evan Peters:He said that. You didn't say that.

15:41Rebecca Hall:No. Or Palosia, right? So you said that, so I didn't. And then Monday in my conference, everyone was talking about his and hers and saying how brilliant it was.

15:50Evan Peters:Well, are they saying, here's the thing. Are they saying how brilliant it was in terms of actual pure quality or are they saying how brilliant it was in terms of an incredibly cheesy, trashy, loanable nonsense that happens to be very entertaining?

16:04Rebecca Hall:But people love that kind of thing. Entertaining, well, that's what they want.

16:07Evan Peters:Yeah, yeah, yeah. But James reflected, which is fair enough, the fact that it has got terrible reviews in America. That's the point. So it has been absolutely slaughtered by the critics. But it is one of those Netflix shows that is not a gourmet burger. It's just a burger, but it is a bloody tasty... It's a dirty burger. It's a proper like McDonald's off-the-shelf cheeseburger. But I've watched it. I'm not all of it. I've watched the first two episodes. And I have to say I am hooked. You're eating that burger. Against my better judgment. But there are some scenes in it. I think the reason why the critics have particularly jumped on it, even though it is in that genre, it's self-aware.

16:45Evan Peters:It's aware of its own, I think, madness slash stupidity. And it's from a very, very renowned bestseller. A bit like we're talking about The Housemaid. you know I was talking about that was just a film and that's been a Sydney Sweeney one that's a kind of trashing but brilliantly entertaining film from an airport bestseller this is another airport bestseller that's been turned into I think it's six part but the whole tone of it is fucking nuts and moment for moment scene for scene there are some absolutely ridiculous scenes happening that are kind of quite badly put together in a weird way like it doesn't why are we seeing this generally there's something about the editing sometimes even the performances I would say

17:24Rebecca Hall:okay so you're saying technically not pleasing to critics,

17:28Evan Peters:but actually thoroughly entertaining. The gimmick is that a hideous crime has been committed, and by the way, it does start with an woman's naked, pretty much naked dead corpse. Dead corpse as opposed to a live corpse. A trope we can do without, but yes. A trope we can do without. That trope, it absolutely starts with that trope, right? Then all the twists and turns happen. But the gimmick is that a husband and wife, albeit it's strange, played by Tessa Thompson and John Bernthal, are both investigating on this crime. He is the police chief or sheriff or whatever. She's a reporter for the local news.

18:03Evan Peters:And he knows

18:04Rebecca Hall:the person's been murdered.

18:05Evan Peters:Yeah, absolutely. They both do. They both know the person's been murdered. Right, okay.

18:09Rebecca Hall:That's not a spoiler.

18:10Evan Peters:But once you get into the weeds of then, what then subsequently happens and all the twists and turns around, it's fucking preposterous. And there's just moments where you're like, oh my God. Like literally, because a lot of it is key to when they see each other, right? Because he's furious with her for sticking her nose into his things, kind of jurisdictional questions, but she's a reporter in this case. But there are moments where he just misses seeing her, like coming out of a place, and you're like, just so the plot will work that they don't actually see each other. And it's so clunky. It's actually hilarious.

18:41Evan Peters:So I'm really enjoying it, but it is terrible.

18:43Rebecca Hall:The people have spoken. I'm just saying the people on the ground really like it. Hang on, hang on. The people on the ground

18:48Kelly Reilly:being the people that you know that work for Heat. Oh, now it's strange. No, no, no. I'm simply saying I'm implying nothing I'm simply stating the parameters of the sampling group

18:58Rebecca Hall:that sampling group are just people who enjoy and watch TV for pure entertainment and they're loving it they're lapping it up

19:05Evan Peters:oh absolutely it is interesting that it absolutely does not matter and there's a Netflix story I was going to mention in news coming up about their subscriber base which is just phenomenal in fact I'll just tell you now tell us now

19:17Rebecca Hall:don't let us wait yeah don't stand on ceremony go for it

19:20Evan Peters:Netflix subscribers have reached 325 million. And Steph spoke to every single one of them about this show. There's only more like two billion people on the planet. It's already like getting, and Ted Sarandos says there'll be a billion people kind of watching their stuff soon. And that's almost half the fucking planet is now watching Netflix. So, and this kind of show is its real base. Like, this is the kind of thing it does well. They know what they're doing. Absolute unashamed trash that is incredibly compelling and entertaining. and you're in for a wild ride. So I think, yeah, it's critic proof is the point.

19:56Evan Peters:It just doesn't matter what the fuck critics say about it. But I've... We should go home, Boyd. And I am going to absolutely carry on watching this thing. Well, you're a critic and you're saying it's good, so there you go. The original book, by the way, is by Alice Feeney, who I think is British, yeah. So it's a British book. If you want to get a huge big Netflix deal, I think you have to write a standalone thriller, kind of whodunit slash thriller. And I might try and do this myself.

20:20Rebecca Hall:Oh my God, me too. We should do it together.

20:22Evan Peters:Yeah, and then get Netflix to buy the rights, because they need, particularly limited series, you know, ongoing. I mean, this could be ongoing. I'm not that I've finished it yet, but I'm guessing John Botha will survive, you know, and he can invest in other crimes, et cetera. But having a limited, they need these limited series that are quite trashy, but brilliantly entertaining, and are basically crime thrillers. That's what they love, and they can't get enough of them, and I need to try and do one.

20:45Rebecca Hall:Boyd, I'm saying, with my crime and your just general brilliance, we could do it.

20:50Kelly Reilly:I think so.

20:50Rebecca Hall:Okay, all right.

20:51Kelly Reilly:There you go.

20:52Rebecca Hall:We'll speak after.

20:53Kelly Reilly:Yeah. Okay. James, what have you been watching? Less than you, it has to be said. So I have watched all of The Night Manager now, which I'm assuming you have as well.

21:01Evan Peters:Do you know what? Not yet. I know I've got 24 hours. You really do? A bit more this time tomorrow. I am interviewing me.

21:06Rebecca Hall:Did you promise somebody as well that you were going to watch it?

21:08Evan Peters:No, no, I'm interviewing the showrunner. Yeah, we're doing a spoiler interview for The Night Manager. You're fucking not doing it because you're so lazy. I know. That's the reason. But I am on episode five. So I've only got two episodes to watch tonight. I'm fine. I'm home tonight. I can finish it.

21:21Kelly Reilly:As this podcast goes out, I want to say everything except the finale will probably have aired come Monday. And I have enjoyed it enormously. There's an awful lot to talk about, which you will do with the writers.

21:31Evan Peters:I'm glad you mentioned that because the BBC, and I think I will mention this to the guys I'm interviewing, but the BBC had the most extraordinary spoiler for this. They ran after the last episode went out,

21:42Kelly Reilly:and I just couldn't believe the trailer they had. Is that by any chance that spoiler for episode three?

21:47Evan Peters:Yeah.

21:48Kelly Reilly:Right. So I hadn't seen that, but I did wonder whether that would happen. Because we've alluded to this, there are some developments in the show. And on the one hand, I can kind of see why they thought they had to do that, but also ruin it for everyone who's watching it.

22:04Evan Peters:I think they have ruined it for everyone who's watching it. Because people have come up to me and said, oh my God, did you see that trailer? In fact, last night it was a BAFTA thing. And people were saying that. People are absolutely, it's extraordinary. They could have totally avoided it. But I think they got overexcited. Well, I think when we do the spoiler chat,

22:20Kelly Reilly:we'll get into this. because there's a lot to talk about in that area. But yes, Watch the Night Manager, very much enjoyed that. I also watched every single episode of one of the shows we are reviewing this week, but I'm not going to say which one until we get to it. So that will be a little surprise value. Oh, I know which one. I know which one too. It's obvious. It's not going to be the fucking beauty, is it? You don't know. You don't know. I do know. I do know. I do know too. The other thing I've been watching is I watched a documentary. Oh, welcome. Well done, James. Welcome.

22:46Rebecca Hall:Which documentary did you watch?

22:47Kelly Reilly:I watched Counting Crows. Have you seen me lately on Sky Documentaries? About the band. About the band, Counting Crows, in the 90s. So 90s. Counting Crows were an absolute staple of the 90s. Yeah, I agree. You would say part of the core grunge scene, like around that sort of time. They were like soft grunge. This is partly what the documentary is about. When August and Everything After came out in the 90s, which was their first album, it went through the strategy. It sold like 8 million copies or 12 million copies, something ridiculous like that. And they were like this little, almost not known at all band.

23:18Kelly Reilly:And they became massive superstars overnight. and Adam Juritz, the lead singer, who was suffering from mental health problems and really struggled with that transition to fame. So this documentary really looks at the period from them hitting it big with the first album to the time off that he took in particular between that album and the second one and then putting out the second album, which Famously didn't do as well. And I found it fascinating because I lived through that transition and when I was really excited when I bought that second album and I remember like, oh, this is a very different sound to the first one.

23:50Kelly Reilly:But he'd had a real existential crisis in between the two. He went out to LA at the behest of Johnny Depp and basically started bartending at the Viper Room and just like to try and kind of get his head together. And he really struggled with being an artist and famous. And I found the whole thing fascinating. You've got Chris Martin on there because he's a massive Counting Crows fan talking about it. You've got Mary Louise Parker on there.

24:11Rebecca Hall:Is Jennifer Aniston on there his ex-girlfriend? Right, and Courtney Cox.

24:14Kelly Reilly:He dated both of them. So he had a proper, like, you know, He became almost the archetypal star fucker, essentially. But I found it really fascinating. But it doesn't talk about anything post the second album, Recovering the Satellites. It's very much limited to that moment in time. You do see him now, and he talks about his life now and how he deals with them. Counting Grows is still around. He's still doing stuff. But I found it a really interesting documentary. What led you to that? Well, I really liked Pearl Jam 20, which was the documentary that they put out 20 years after the band essentially founded.

24:46Kelly Reilly:and that was years ago and this I don't know I saw an advert for it I went oh I'd really like to watch that here's my question isn't it a film well I think you find it's a one-off documentary event part of HBO's their series they do a series it's called HBO's Music Box series which technically makes it part of a series an episode of a series the Music Box series on HBO on a technicality tenuous I have you tenuous but yes I really liked it is it on Sky then yeah it's on now it's on Sky but yeah because at the time it wasn't there was a period where it just wasn't cool to like Counting Crows because they weren't hard or edgy.

25:19Kelly Reilly:It was never cool to like Counting Crows. I loved Counting Crows.

25:22Rebecca Hall:Oh, I liked them too. Their first album,

25:23Kelly Reilly:I still think it's one of my favourite albums. It's incredible. So, yeah, love it.

25:28Rebecca Hall:Oh, James. Well, okay. So are you limiting yourself to music documentaries then?

25:33Kelly Reilly:No, just things that interest me. Okay, fine. All right, fine. There is a Netflix documentary series called Explained and it's like really little, tiny little bite-sized episodes and it does things, and the stuff it covers are absolutely wild things from K-pop to like monogamy as an idea and they just take an issue and they just have lots of people talking about it and there's been like a Mind Explained spin-off series a Sex Explained spin-off series and so I've been occasionally putting on episodes of that while I'm doing stuff so I've watched the K-pop one learned loads about K-pop and obviously BTS coming back this is very very topical and I watched the one on monogamy and I've just yeah I've been doing it while I've been exercising in the morning so yeah oh Jesus Christ okay that visual is something you didn't need there's so much information

26:13Rebecca Hall:there hold on right

26:14Kelly Reilly:explained on Netflix little documentary series bite-sized chunks it's actually very accessible it's fun

26:18Rebecca Hall:okay well I'm going to need you to explain something to me okay what are you talking about so you're getting up in the morning yes and exercise what are you doing

26:26Kelly Reilly:I'm like working out in the front room in front of the TV oh my god with what with like a treadmill with like a little shorts and a vest

26:31Rebecca Hall:with like yoga shorts and a vest what are you doing

26:34Kelly Reilly:well so it's like a selection sometimes I'm on my little bike cycling and sometimes I'm doing weights oh my god

26:43Rebecca Hall:But I have to stay fit.

26:44Kelly Reilly:I'm trying to stay alive and not die. But normally I will do it when I'm watching stuff for this podcast. So instead of trimming trees and painting walls and ceilings, I'm now exercising occasionally while watching stuff in the morning. This is mind-blowing. But when I don't have anything particularly pressing to watch or I just can't face watching whatever it is we have to do, I put on a documentary.

27:01Evan Peters:You slag me off for multitasking, but effectively you are.

27:03Kelly Reilly:You're riding a bike.

27:04Rebecca Hall:You've got an exercise bike. Yes, an exercise bike. Is it an exercise bike? It's not like one of the trendy spin bikes?

27:09Kelly Reilly:I'm not doing... I thought you were about to say it's not a real bike. I'm not doing laps around the front room. Peloton. Peloton. Are you going to die like Mr. Big? It is not a Peloton.

27:16Rebecca Hall:Okay, so you've got an exercise bike. It is just a static bike, I believe. You've got an exercise bike where you're sitting doing weights. In front of my massive TV.

27:24Kelly Reilly:Crucially, I'm not doing weights on the exercise bike. That would be weird and dangerous. Whilst watching some Marvel shows about K-pop.

27:31Rebecca Hall:This is so wild. Oh, my God. It is an incredible development. It really, really is. You secret exerciser. Yeah. Wow. No one's noticed.

27:40Evan Peters:I'm not saying it's not working or it's working but no it's good you're maintaining your your prime weight and physique

27:47Rebecca Hall:yes good for you well done let's be supportive are you going to revive the biggest loser

27:51Evan Peters:I mean who knows

27:53Kelly Reilly:who knows I do to be fair I do have to work off the Toblerones there's enormous Toblerones I had over Christmas okay like Alan Partridge you've overdosed on Toblerone I have yeah

28:01Evan Peters:like Alan Partridge

28:02Kelly Reilly:in so many ways exactly I'm modelling my whole life after him do you know what though that is a revelation

28:06Rebecca Hall:it is a revelation but weirdly I was saying to Boy this morning I cannot stop watching the variety actors on actors interviews I can't stop watching them

28:15Evan Peters:do they count as TV or you know

28:17Rebecca Hall:well I think they do kind of yeah they actually

28:21Evan Peters:now I come to mention there is one channel that I think does show them and I'm trying to remember which one it is

28:26Rebecca Hall:just watched the Leo and Jennifer Lawrence one which was great I think maybe

28:30Evan Peters:kind of repackages them for yeah so you can actually see them on TV they are brilliant I love them as well yeah

28:36Rebecca Hall:I've been I've been doing that and watching like continuously watching the best of Between Two Ferns where they clip things together because I just love that. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, Zach Galifianakis. Hilarious. Anyway, so yeah, I'm all for the bite-sized bits of entertainment. I'm going to watch some of those. I won't do it on a bike whilst lifting weights and trying to maintain my prime weight. Where did you get

28:56Kelly Reilly:your exercise bike from? Other, I mean, a very large, very famous mail order conglomerate.

29:03Rebecca Hall:Oh, okay.

29:03Kelly Reilly:Oh, like Argos? Yes, from Argos. I mean basically you can mention that we're not the BBC you're not allowed to mention yes I got it off Amazon it was not expensive

29:14Evan Peters:maybe I should get an exercise bike what?

29:17Kelly Reilly:you should what is happening? Boydee to be honest you're the perfect person to do it because if you got on an exercise bike in front of your TV it'd be like being on the LED volume because your TV is so fucking huge you'd be completely immersed

29:28Rebecca Hall:I would like to know if the listeners are also exercising whilst they're watching shows

29:32Kelly Reilly:or listening to this podcast

29:34Rebecca Hall:who knows wow

29:35Kelly Reilly:But the reason I started doing it with the documentaries is because I felt like, especially when not doing the cycling stuff, I'm not giving it my full attention. So I thought, I don't want to review shows while doing it because I'm not paying. So a documentary felt like a good middle ground of something that I can kind of dip in and out of as I'm doing things.

29:50Rebecca Hall:Okay, wow.

29:51Kelly Reilly:Yeah, all makes sense.

29:52Rebecca Hall:Right, fine. Okay.

29:53Kelly Reilly:Good, I'm glad we had this scintillating conversation. Shall we move on to this week's guests? And when I say guests, I do mean guests, plural. all. Okay, look, Ryan Murphy doesn't do things by halves, so neither did we for this particular interview spot, so we assembled a veritable Avengers of cast from his new show, The Beauty. This is spread across two different interviews, and the show, if you don't know, is kind of a twisted body image saga about a sexually transmitted syndrome that grants the infected, model-like looks, ripped gym bods, and homicidal tendencies, and frankly, you can get all of that just from cycling in front of a documentary in your living room.

30:30Kelly Reilly:But this is Murphy, I would say, at his most Murphy-like. This is peak Murphy. And Boydie spoke to, deep breath, Ashton Kutcher, Jeremy Pope, and Anthony Ramos, and then seamlessly ran out of that room, hopped next door, and spoke to Evan Peters and Rebecca Hall. And you are going to hear both of those chats back to back right now. Boydie, how was that? Was it a bit like speed dating?

30:52Evan Peters:It was intense, yeah. But can I just say that there's a brilliant moment. Listen out for the moment when I asked Ashton Kutcher about Yacht Rock. There's a brilliant Yacht Rock moment in the show involving the song Sailing. And for some reason I couldn't get this phrase Yacht Rock out of my mouth. So I went, Yacht Music? And I'm saying, there's this brilliant scene where you talk about Yacht Music. And Ashton Kutcher looks at me and goes, what the fuck are you talking about? Luckily, I realise this is what I'm talking about and then we talk about Yacht Rock extensively for the rest of the interview.

31:26Evan Peters:Probably, yes. But it was classic. It was classic. And I love yacht rock, so, you know. Famously, you do. Doubly annoying, yeah. So there's a lengthy discussion of Christopher Cross coming up. You'll be pleased to know. This is Bordy talking about yacht music. Hi, guys. Welcome to the Pilot TV podcast. Welcome to London. I think I'm the first of the days.

31:45Ashton Kutcher:We're kicking it off with you. Yeah. Yeah.

31:47Evan Peters:It feels right.

31:48Ashton Kutcher:It's fire. Come on. Absolutely fire. You're going to get, like, full energy. The pressure, yeah. The rest of the day, we're just going like this. I'm thrilled. So you're getting the whole, you're going to get all of it.

31:56Evan Peters:You're going to get all of it. So this right, I mean this this show the beauty has everything in it's got like body horror It's got satire. It's got dark comedy, but it feels to me like a Ryan Murphy thing Like it's almost like he's become his own genre. What's it like for you actually to enter into the Ryan Murphy world? It's a privilege and an honor like I

32:15Ashton Kutcher:I've always been a fan of his like it's since like I glee and And I mean I You have to imagine, I'm like a show choir kid that grew up in the country, and that's not very popular in the country. And so, to me, that show was like a celebration. And then he went into this whole horror genre and everything. And it's kind of like, and I remember sitting with him before we ever started when he was just talking to me about playing this role. He was like, I want to bring I'm going to bring all the elements of all the things I've done together in this in this basket and then present it to people. And and the most magical thing that he does is he's got his finger on the pulse of pop culture and that social conversation that people are having.

33:06Ashton Kutcher:And we're going through a moment in society in the world right now where people are trying to decide how much is too much. because it, you know, like Botox used to be this thing that people got done, but nobody told anybody they got done. Now it's like people go get a coffee and a Botox. It's like, that's like a, that's like a date that you go on, you know? And it's like braces used to be these big metal. Now they're like Invisaligns and adults are wearing them and go. And, and all of these things are becoming normalized over time. And, and this show is like a pseudo cautionary tale, but at the same time just to question to people to say, hey, where are you at?

33:45Ashton Kutcher:Where's your litmus in the world relative to how far you would go to be your most optimized self? And then when you got there, would you be happy?

33:54Evan Peters:Absolutely. And since this is your first Ryan Murphy show, right? How was it for you?

33:59Ashton Kutcher:It was great. It was a lot of learning as you go. I mean, And we were cross-boarding, so we were shooting episodes out of order. I mean, usually do, but this one definitely felt, I mean, like you were just, you had to trust the whole time. Like you didn't, because we didn't know how the show was going to end. We didn't, we were getting episodes as we, as we went. And yeah, man, it was like, we were also building the characters as we went as well. You know, it wasn't, it wasn't like the world was completely built. Like things like the transformations, you know, the transformation was one thing in the script.

34:41Ashton Kutcher:And then we got to set. And then Ryan's like, actually, no, like I want to change this whole thing in the way people transform in the way, you know, and, you know, and, you know, this is this is what it's going to look like them going from pre-beauty to, you know, to beauty. And, you know, and that was a that was a big change on the spot. And then just different things like with my character with the eye patch, he you know, his face in the comic books is his face is almost all burned. And he and he has a mask and we tried the mask. We had to change that. And then we did a smaller burn. We put an eye patch on.

35:17Ashton Kutcher:We did different variations. So all of that, there were a lot of changes as it's a trust game. Yeah, you got it. When you enter into the world of Ryan, you have to just turn over. your trust to him and know that he's going to execute. And that becomes a really fun collaboration. It's like having a partner in life that you know that in the moments you need them, they'll be there for you.

35:45Evan Peters:Jeremy, you're a past master working with Ryan. And you must be, I guess, when you sign on to Ryan, you know that it's very exposing. I mean, all of you guys have incredible scenes where violence and sex and nudity and all of that. naked. You two have a naked. Everybody.

36:00Ashton Kutcher:Every single one of us

36:01Evan Peters:was naked in a scene. The intimacy coordinates must have been like dozens of them. We're very familiar. Busy. Is it fun though to be able to do all that? It is.

36:10Ashton Kutcher:I think what you realize or you see in Ryan's universe what people say he works with a lot of the same actors and artists and I think it's because he knows how to champion artists and the nuance of who and what we are. He allows us to stretch. He gives us opportunities that sometimes other people may not see for us. And I think he understands artists are shapeshifters, you know, until they're given the language or the ability or the character or a wig or whatever it is that evokes an energy out of you. So I think from my experience working with Ryan, it's been a thrill because each time, each iteration has been different.

36:42Ashton Kutcher:It is a trust and I've trusted before, but you trust the visionary, the vision. And he has a very specific one. I think people can identify Ryan's work as soon as you see a trailer or an image. And I think that's powerful because he's creating like a currency, a visual currency of what the world can look like. You know, so I think with this show, he called me and I was like, let's go on this weird, wild, explosive journey. And that's literally what I signed up for.

37:05Evan Peters:And I got it's definitely weird and wild. One of my favorite bits is that you're on your yacht and you say, can we have some yacht music? And then it cuts to you singing Sailing by Christopher Cross. This the sailing scene is fantastic. Did you know that song before? No, no, I did not. No, no, no.

37:22Ashton Kutcher:Right now. right well i saw it on the in the script i'm like oh i don't know this song so i'm listening to it i'm like wow this is a smash i said hey and then um it's a classic yeah christopher cross got hits oh oh unbelievable and i'm like you know like you gotta be i mean you gotta you gotta be a pretty amazing artist michael mcdonald singing backup vocals on ride like the wind i'm like who gets michael mcdonald sing backgrounds but it was um yeah he's he just texted me he's like hey i want you to learn this song. And I was like, okay, how much? He was like, the whole thing. I was like, the whole thing?

37:58Ashton Kutcher:We're going to do a four-minute sequence of me singing, but I was like, let's do it. And I learned the whole thing. And we did like 13, 14 takes or something like that. It was our first day on set. And that was our first day. We started the day very musical. We started the season very, at least for me and Ant. That was so much fun, though, man. Sponding over Crystal Cross. I mean, one more.

38:17Evan Peters:I mean, that's me.

38:17Anthony Ramos:Yeah, it's not far.

38:22Evan Peters:I'm tempted to get to see the whole song now. It is fantastic. Maybe later. We talked about the daring, bold scenes of intimacy. Are you just throw yourself into those? I mean, there's one aboard a plane that I thought was quite extraordinary. Is it just embarrassing to do those things? Or do you used to do it after all these years?

38:41Ashton Kutcher:I remember getting that scene and being like, oh my god what did i sign up for like this is like um and and then it was funny because i um i shot it and then i went back to my small town in iowa for a funeral right after um and my aunt was there and she's like oh what have you been working on what do you do i was like i'm working on this thing but you can't watch it like you cannot like i'm not gonna be comfortable like talking to my aunt and my aunt and having her like and she's like i saw you when you were a baby it's fine and so i'm like okay fine it's scary but exciting at the same time because you know if it's done well it'll be it's something that people haven't seen before and and i think like again and again and again when i got pages for this as we were shooting it it was like this it pops and it's shocking to you to play it, but you also know it will be extraordinary for an audience and it'll feel original.

39:49Ashton Kutcher:And so much of what we see today feels extraordinarily derivative. And this is another one of the, I mean, this guy is a masterful craftsman and wordsmith, but he builds tension in different ways that I've never experienced before. It was one of the... Playing Ryan's scenes is probably one of the top, greatest joys I've had as a performer. Oh, wow.

40:21Evan Peters:And the scene where you two fight and you're naked and you're not, how was that for you? Was that fun?

40:26Ashton Kutcher:It was because I've known this cat for 15 years. We went to college together, so that's family. So yeah, if you're going to be naked, you're going to be naked with somebody you know. Yes, you're going to be naked with your brother. You're going to be naked with somebody you know. But I think, you know, if anything, again, a lot of these Ryan scenes in the world requires a lot of you physically, emotionally. But it was I had the best time. You know, I felt very supported from the team we had. Yes, the intimacy coordinator. You know, she was on the clock most of the days. Working. She was working.

40:55Ashton Kutcher:Yeah. But I think if anything, it really impacted the story and it allowed us to just try new things and have fun while doing so. It's also like that you're in this shows about a like a rebirth of self. And so you come into this world naked and there's something that happens when you're doing that and you have a character that's doing that that causes you to have like an emotionally naked moment as well. And in the wrong hands, it's just exploitive. and in the right hands it it that emotionally naked moment is exposed and and I think that Ryan's just got the right hands absolutely yeah no it's

41:42Evan Peters:incredible thank you so much great to meet you thank you I just been talking to your co-stars and colleagues about working with Ryan Murphy and of course you are the parts master but you're the newbie how is it for you I'm the newbie. How was it for you to enter this crazy, sick, twisted world? Don't put words in my mouth.

42:03Anthony Ramos:No, I'm saying that. Yeah, yeah, no, you may disagree. I know, but I might repeat you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you do, you fall into my trap. I know.

42:10Evan Peters:How was it for you, though? You've been this mad.

42:12Anthony Ramos:It's fantastic. I do feel really lucky. It's so fun. I mean, when Ryan asked me to be part of this, I didn't read the script. He just took me out for a breakfast and sat opposite me. and described to me the whole concept of the show, including a very detailed description of the first five minutes of episode one. And it was kind of like I was having a slight out-of-body experience while he was doing it because I was like, is this really, is this Ryan Murphy is pitching me the most Ryan Murphy sounding show that has ever existed?

42:46Evan Peters:Peak Murphy.

42:47Anthony Ramos:Peak? Peak Murphy. And I was like, I will repeat that one. Good. And I was just like, oh, well, this is a no-brainer. know i mean there's not anyone i can't think of anyone that's not going to want to watch this it just sounds so fun and um insane and unhinged and delightful and satirical and kind of subversive and provocative and all the things that ryan murphy can be um so it's and then he asked me to do another one so i was just like great i'm having having a ball you're part of the part of

43:18Evan Peters:having a ball yeah and then you i mean there's barely a ryan murphy show you're not in but um How is this in this just feel even more of him as we were saying than ever before like it's got all those elements, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah, and how was it and was it kind of what is it like? What's unique about him? Why how come why have you worked with him so many times and what does he kind of give you? He's just a great collaborator and and and truly a visionary

43:43Ashton Kutcher:I mean when I read the comic book series that they created this amazing world with this this virus and drug in it and And it's very dystopian. What was that going to look like? And camp at certain times. And I thought, what's Ryan going to do with this? It's going to be, you know, I was just excited to see his vision because it is usually very strong and confident and provocative. So, yeah. Yeah. And, again, he's a great collaborator and gives you an opportunity

44:11Evan Peters:to do something new and try that out. And I thought it was very him that right from the start, we're plunged into the fact that the two of you are not only just colleagues but also intimate with each other lovers lovers which is such an interesting start that's an interesting start to the show what did you make of that, the thrust right in there from the start that was the first scene that we shot

44:39Anthony Ramos:that was the first scene that we shot this is our first, hello nice to meet you

44:43Ashton Kutcher:very Ryan to make us do that don't you think?

44:45Anthony Ramos:Yeah, very.

44:49Ashton Kutcher:Why don't we start with that? That'll be more fun.

44:51Anthony Ramos:That'll be spicy.

44:53Ashton Kutcher:But I don't think it was out of place. It wasn't like, he wasn't trying to be mean.

44:56Anthony Ramos:No, not at all. No. It was great in a way to like,

45:00Ashton Kutcher:it created the, we, you know, that scene really starts the whole, our journey or, or our dynamic, I guess is the best way to put it. Yeah. So, so it was a very smart scene to actually start with and break the ice.

45:14Anthony Ramos:Exactly.

45:14Ashton Kutcher:Because then every scene thereafter, we know each other.

45:18Anthony Ramos:Yeah.

45:19Evan Peters:I was saying to the other guys, the intimacy coordinator must have been very busy in this show.

45:23Anthony Ramos:Yeah. Indeed. Indeed, yeah.

45:27Evan Peters:And the two of you have this great kind of relationship in the show. It's almost like a buddy cop kind of thing. The scenes between you two have a kind of really different vibe to some of the other things going on in the show. Was that fun? Did you have that? Did you kind of develop that from the start? Did you get to meet up and kind of decide how that was going to work?

45:44Anthony Ramos:No, I think we just got lucky. And when we met, we sort of naturally kind of riffed off each other. And it was sort of easy to bring that energy into the material. And when Ryan asked me to do this, one of the things he said to me was like, I just want you to be you. Can you do that thing when you're like British and, you know, a little cheeky? Just to do that. And I was like, so you want me to like bring more of that? like I can like ad-lib lines and it's like yeah yeah so I did get to do that and just also I never really get to do that as an actor I'm really always playing very serious people who are Americans who are also very serious so it was nice to I don't know just bring some levity and sort of be a bit more myself actually yeah

46:28Evan Peters:it feels very that he kind of does allow you guys to kind of you know improvise to kind of do stuff on the spur of the moment is that true is that yeah definitely yeah he's always open to new ideas and playing around with the script.

46:40Ashton Kutcher:And he'll come in there and just be like, let's just not do that.

46:44Anthony Ramos:Yeah, just riff or whatever.

46:45Ashton Kutcher:Yeah, just skip that. So it's a very of-the-moment creativity.

46:52Evan Peters:I guess the whole thing is partly about... It's not the right way. That is not the right way. No, but I was just thinking about it. Of the moment? Of the moment. Of the moment. All right. I think of the moment was good. Yeah. I think it was good, yeah. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Obviously, you need my approval for that. But yeah. I feel like the whole show is about you know the appearance here we go yeah all those things here it comes do you feel do you feel that pressure of needing to look a certain way needing to look like immaculate when you're we're actors

47:22Anthony Ramos:part of our job is to be looked at like you know it affects you know it affects so many aspects of what we do whether it's like how long we spend in the makeup chair how long it takes to light our faces that we have constantly part of our jobs we're being looked at like all the people in this room, the makeup comes in. Yeah, of course, it's there. And I'm not immune to vanity. I don't know about you.

47:44Evan Peters:Are you immune to vanity? That's the question. I played in fifth.

47:49Anthony Ramos:Entirely immune to vanity. You never look in the mirror. You never look at yourself. I've never looked in the mirror once.

47:57Anthony Ramos:But I think I also try and... I like that this show is sort of, in a sense getting into the obsession and dangers of all of that and and also this is not something that's new I mean the the power and the commodification of beauty has been around since humankind there's a greek myth there's dorian gray it's like you know and the sort of proximity of ugliness to that and the kind of flip side of that and the dangers of pursuing it and I just like to remember that I'm also an actor and it's important to like not have vanity as an actor and like be prepared to look terrible as much as it is important to look good at times and also that I think on a larger scale do whatever you need to do to make yourself feel more like yourself but be careful holding on to what it is that makes yourself because we live in a world where everyone's and the internet is kind of algorithmically drilling into our psyche telling us we're not good enough.

48:58Anthony Ramos:So it can be hard to maintain that North Star. And I think the show is touching on that because ultimately it's like, what is you? What is the you that makes you beautiful?

49:09Evan Peters:Absolutely. And I think more and more for men is what it feels like. And I think this show addresses that, the idea of male beauty and having a six-pack and all of that, the pressures of all that. That's interesting, isn't it? At that explanation.

49:20Anthony Ramos:Yeah. You're not vain.

49:22Ashton Kutcher:I still think it's 100 times harder for women. But yeah, you were saying earlier that it's, you know, I guess.

49:30Evan Peters:I don't know. Were you agreeing with the hypothesis that men, I mean, it's much worse. No, but I think men are catching up.

49:38Anthony Ramos:Like I see it more and more and more, the pressures of like, you see this stuff of like men feeling like, you know, they have to look a certain way in order to get a date. It's like it's become, I feel it used to be other things and now it's much more physical based. but I'm just training off help me out

49:57Evan Peters:your voice is getting quieter that's right

49:59Anthony Ramos:I'm saying it's hard for everybody it's hard for everybody we can agree on that

50:03Evan Peters:we can agree on that

50:04Anthony Ramos:but it's probably

50:04Evan Peters:it's hard it's hard thank you and now I've run out of time anyway so it's fine

50:09Kelly Reilly:thank you so much thanks to me okay that was basically everyone involved in the beauty time now for this week's listener question and this week's listener question comes from Melanie Port and Melanie says

50:22Rebecca Hall:hi Melanie

50:23Kelly Reilly:hi Melanie She doesn't say that because that's her name. Hello, pilot team. Welcome into Kay's shoes, Steph. Hope they fit well.

50:30Rebecca Hall:Melanie, thank you. You are lovely.

50:33Kelly Reilly:Melanie says, I've given in this week and subscribed to Plus. Well done. Well done, as you all should do, for it is a bargain. I felt like you needed some balance after Boyd telling everyone to listen to Redacted, other podcast name here. She's also subscribed to them. Very much enjoy hearing the variety of opinions on the show. thanks to my fella Andy for introducing me to your bonkers world.

50:56Rebecca Hall:Hi, Andy.

50:57Kelly Reilly:But her question is this. She, and presumably Andy, like to watch a 30-minute comedy in bed to cleanse the brain palate of all the horror in the world and of all their other TV choices, apparently. We have watched far too many to list but are always on the lookout for new recommendations. Which less well-known comedy series would each of you recommend, ideally with a few belly laughs? We love things like, here we go, but appreciate that might not be very helpful. Sorry if you've done this before. As I say, new paid subscriber. Thank you and wishing the pod every success for 2026. Mel.

51:31Rebecca Hall:Mel is delightful. Can I just say, that's a lovely email and she's signed it off. Now, I'd like just, Mel, welcome.

51:39Kelly Reilly:Welcome. Welcome, Mel.

51:40Rebecca Hall:Now.

51:41Kelly Reilly:Now. I have got a lot to say about this.

51:46Rebecca Hall:So have I. Because the thing is, I sort of was like, now, I don't know how old Mel is. So I don't know if she's missed comedies that I think that she should have watched, okay? So I'm going to read off my list of things that I thoroughly enjoy. Okay, this is good.

52:00Kelly Reilly:Because I have a list of like 30 things. Mel, get a pen and a pencil.

52:04Rebecca Hall:So, I don't know. Or just one or the other. Because there's some things that I think everybody's watched, but I'm going to mention them anyway, right?

52:12Kelly Reilly:So completely going against the topic of the question. Don't start with friends. Don't start with friends. Okay, not friends.

52:17Rebecca Hall:Or Seinfeld. I'm going to say, because I don't know how old Mel is, I don't know whether she, or if she was doing something else at a particular time when things were coming out.

52:24Kelly Reilly:Lesser known was the criteria. So I think lesser known could be very old, you might not have heard of it, or it could be obscure. So I think something that she probably just hasn't stumbled across.

52:33Evan Peters:And also the clues in, they're like, here we go.

52:35Rebecca Hall:I know. Which is a, you know. Right, yeah. That's kind of like a British, you know. Right, okay, so. But I'm like very kind of, I lean towards American comedies. So a lot of mine are American. I'm just going to read the list. That's fine.

52:48Evan Peters:Like James does as well. You both do.

52:50Rebecca Hall:Right. One of mine, which I always feel is like completely underrated and never won any awards, and it should have, King of Queens. Don't make that face. No, no, no, just listen.

53:00Kelly Reilly:Mel, literally, I can hear her cancelling her subscription live in real time.

53:05Rebecca Hall:No, Mel, stay with me. Stay with me. I'm going to read them all. Arrested Development. I don't know whether she's missed the Arrested Development boat.

53:10Kelly Reilly:I think she's probably seen Arrested Development.

53:12Rebecca Hall:Mel, can you please confirm? I like the fact that we're guessing. I have no idea. You don't know. Mel strikes me as the kind of person

53:18Kelly Reilly:who has tried Arrested Development and didn't like it. Wow. Okay, we need to... Mel, can you come into the studio?

53:25Rebecca Hall:No, you don't know that though, but if you haven't watched Arrested Development, it's absolutely fabulous. I mean, it's fine. And I also think...

53:32Evan Peters:What I would say is...

53:33Rebecca Hall:You can do a re-watch.

53:34Evan Peters:I love Arrested Development as well, but it is an acquired taste. It is. It's quite divisive. I never acquired it. A lot of people don't like it.

53:39Rebecca Hall:You two are an acquired taste, and this woman has subscribed to the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's always money in the bananas.

53:44Evan Peters:No, no, no. I'm just throwing in there the fact that she wouldn't necessarily go oh yeah it's not necessarily for everyone that show

53:49Rebecca Hall:which is why it might which is why everyone she's overlooked you know

53:52Evan Peters:I think the good thing about Restless Development is you know within the first episode whether you really it's your kind of thing or not because it starts off

53:57Rebecca Hall:I think it's got the kookiness that she likes that's in that possibly possibly here we go isn't in any way

54:03Evan Peters:like surreal it's just

54:04Rebecca Hall:no but it's kind of kooky isn't it oh yeah

54:07Evan Peters:I don't know if I'd call it kooky I don't know I think it finds the humour in everyday events you know everyday family events whereas Restless Development is very much a we are doing something eccentric. Humour out of mundanity versus... And flights of fantasy, flights of fancy, literally. Anyway, we're having a discussion. I'm going to keep going. I'm sorry for even... I'm going to keep going.

54:29Rebecca Hall:Parks and Rec?

54:30Evan Peters:Do you think she's watched it? After season three. Season three onwards. But yeah, go for it.

54:34Rebecca Hall:Parks and Rec?

54:35Evan Peters:We're in agreeance on that.

54:36Rebecca Hall:Okay. Brooklyn Nine-Nine?

54:38Kelly Reilly:It's a good choice. I think she's probably stumbled across that one on Netflix. I'm just going to keep going. Okay, you press on.

54:42Rebecca Hall:Trial and error on Prime. Do either of you know this show? No. Kristen Chenoweth, two seasons, mockumentary on true life crime, real life crime.

54:54Kelly Reilly:Now you come to mention it, yeah, rings a bell. I think that's a good call. Kristen Chenoweth is great. I've never even heard of that show, but she's obviously fabulous.

55:00Evan Peters:It's really funny. I think spoofs of genres are good. I like that.

55:04Kelly Reilly:If you're doing mockumentaries, I think any of the kunk series should be considered for this.

55:09Rebecca Hall:Okay, but back to my list. Working mums. I feel like that never ever ever got the applauded so it should which one was that? Catherine Reitman Canadian show Working Mums oh it's brilliant okay crucially you do not have to be a working mum that what were you going to say oh yeah no no

55:28Evan Peters:you've gone for the obscure which is that's good answering the question yeah okay Working Mums

55:31Rebecca Hall:and then I was just she's definitely watched this Big Boys because that's recent but I love that

55:36Kelly Reilly:but not everyone has seen it to be fair

55:37Rebecca Hall:Big Boys must watch and then I'm going to say something really random which is going to you're going to be like what are you talking about that's a kids show but thoroughly entertaining and hilarious for 30 minutes

55:49Kelly Reilly:Bluey no

55:50Rebecca Hall:and also they're like 7 minutes long horrible histories I'm just going to say as kind of a left field thing horrible histories and also you learn a lot so that is my list did I miss anything off oh yes I did one thing one of my favourite sitcoms ever Ryan Reynolds Two Guys and a Girl also Canadian

56:13Kelly Reilly:originally two guys

56:14Rebecca Hall:a girl and a pizza place right

56:16Kelly Reilly:fabulous but then they decided they had enough of pizza and they went to a different restaurant

56:20Rebecca Hall:they yeah they moved on from the pizza place two guys and a girl that is my list

56:24Kelly Reilly:nice yeah you've got 30 to get through well maybe not 30 but I've got a big chunk of them yeah go on then okay okay shall I just rattle through them I rattle through them some of these not all of these are obscure some of them will surprise you my first one I've presented these in alphabetical order oh Jesus right okay so beginning with B's bad education Jack Whitehall as an anarchic classroom teacher loads of fun

56:48Rebecca Hall:I feel like she would have watched that she probably will do I'm doing what you no no that's fair

56:52Kelly Reilly:she probably would have watched you never know you never know good shout and then obviously I was going to go straight from that to Barry on HBO which is great but again quite famous she's probably seen that but it's really good although I will say if you're looking specifically for laughs it becomes less funny as it goes it becomes more dramatic but that's an option Big Boys you've said if we're going back in time black books Yes, it's Graham Linehan, who is now Persona Non Grata, but still very, very funny. Dylan Moran, very, very good. And if you're in a black books frame of mind, then Spaced probably fits into that same kind of oeuvre as well.

57:22Kelly Reilly:But she's probably seen that. So, Boston Legal is one I would pick out. So, David E. Kelly's legal shows are all over the map. You've got Annie McBeal, which is just batshit, and let's be honest, quite irritating. And then you have The Practice, which is the spin-off of that book, which is quite dark and kind of grim. and then the spin-off from The Practice which was Boston Legal which is somewhere between the two like it's I mean it's not because it's not dark at all it's properly comedy it's utterly madcap James Spader and William Shatner Denny Crane absolutely amazing I love that show it's so funny it's an absolute laugh riot so Boston Legal Californication David Duchovny and Natasha McElhone it's kind of he's like a writer with sex addiction it's quite explicit it's lots of nudity is that funny?

58:05Kelly Reilly:very booby but it's genuinely very funny you know my stories

58:07Rebecca Hall:on David Duchovny I don't watch anything with David Duchovny unless it's X-Files. You've got an anti-Decovny thing, you madwoman. X-Files or nothing.

58:14Evan Peters:All I'd say is Californication. I mean, it's quite dramatic as well. Does it seem like a comedy? I think it's more funny than not. And again, short episodes. I just don't think it's an out-on-out comedy like our listener is. Anyway, carry on.

58:28Rebecca Hall:Did I say Veep?

58:29Evan Peters:You did not say Veep. Oh, Veep.

58:31Rebecca Hall:Veep is on the top of mine. Sorry, I've covered my list. No, no, that's fine. You carry on.

58:35Evan Peters:Now you're just listing things that almost vaguely comment it's Californication. and next next is Catastrophe yeah

58:42Kelly Reilly:yeah yeah Catastrophe genuinely funny Sharon Horgan

58:46Rebecca Hall:I feel like yours are not pure comedy do you think that

58:51Evan Peters:Catastrophe's a comedy

58:52Kelly Reilly:Catastrophe's a comedy

58:53Evan Peters:it's a nightcom

58:55Kelly Reilly:yeah no it's fine Californication also a comedy but anyway my next one is obscure but she said so she's new to the podcast which means I don't think she'd have heard of this if she had listened to the podcast regularly she would already be all over this Colin from Accounts because I don't think many people know about Colin from Accounts but we bang on about it endlessly which is insane because it's phenomenal because Colin from Accounts is amazing it's feel good it has a cute dog in it it's genuinely hilarious that should be number one I would say on your list of things to watch as you go to bed Colin from Accounts maybe yeah my next one a little bit throwback not friends but coupling the British friends no goes off the rail when Richard Coyle leaves it falls off a cliff but genuinely funny Jack Davenport Stephen Moffat's coupling no it's a giggle no you're a hater no I support that choice Okay, fine.

59:38Kelly Reilly:Do you not find it funny?

59:39Rebecca Hall:No, I don't find that funny.

59:40Kelly Reilly:You didn't like Jack Davenport? You know when he does these big old rants?

59:42Rebecca Hall:Yeah, yeah, I don't find that funny. Doesn't like coupling.

59:45Kelly Reilly:Okay, fine. Next one, Extraordinary on Disney Plus. Since cancelled, got, I want to say, two seasons. Two, yeah. Really, really funny. It's a world where everyone has superpowers except for one girl who doesn't. And it's, I mean, it's filthy and it's hilarious and it's sweary and it's loads and loads of fun. Okay? No, no. Oh, God, Jesus. We're on E's. We're the E's. It's alphabetical. We're going into F now. So, okay, feel good. Obviously, the next one. Mae Martin's show. Yes. Makes you feel good. And it's funny. Great show. Also has dramatic. Also has dramatic.

1:00:17Evan Peters:A lot of yours aren't out. I'm looking for out and out. Pure fun.

1:00:20Kelly Reilly:But I would qualify that by saying that. And certainly from my perspective, comedy in isolation isn't funny. I think comedy juxtaposed with drama even haunts you to comedy. You're saying the most bizarre things.

1:00:32Evan Peters:But you're just thinking of yourself. We're addressing what the listener wants. I'm thinking of Mel. I'm thinking of Mel. No, you're not. because Mel likes Here We Go. Stick to what we know she likes. I'm broadening Mel's horizons. And Here We Go is not a show that needs any drama or takes itself seriously in that way. Any carry-on.

1:00:46Rebecca Hall:She needs, she's talking like, she would like Commanderland and Motherland and all those things.

1:00:51Evan Peters:Anyway, carry on. We've probably got like 16 to go. We're only on F at the moment.

1:00:54Kelly Reilly:The next one, and I'm not even sure this is purely a comedy, but just remember the, you remember the Flatshare on Paramount Plus? Yes. Yes, I really like the Flatshare. No, it's absolutely not. Okay, no, not the Flatshare. It's a good show,

1:01:03Evan Peters:but it's just not an out-and-out, you know, fun laugh, fun-filled comedy.

1:01:07Kelly Reilly:Okay, fine. Okay, well, my next one is one I think you definitely won't have seen, which is Go On, which is a Matthew Perry sitcom from 2012. Wow. And it's basically, it's like a grief support group. Yes, that was...

1:01:18Evan Peters:But it's really funny. That was adapted from a British show.

1:01:20Kelly Reilly:Yeah, it's good.

1:01:21Evan Peters:It's good. I mean, yeah, but again,

1:01:22Kelly Reilly:grief support group, I mean, really. Is that like what you want to keep you amused when you go to bed? Okay, fine. I think it's good. Right, next, and you'll be on side with this one, Rufus Jones' Home, which is genius. No, I endorse that. And it involves full frontal nudity and yucca plants.

1:01:37Evan Peters:Yeah.

1:01:37Kelly Reilly:Yeah. It's very funny. It's brilliant. Yeah, okay. I mean, don't watch it just for that. It's genuinely very funny. Use of co-cores in it. It is fabulous.

1:01:44Rebecca Hall:Right. Keep going. Yeah, really love that.

1:01:47Kelly Reilly:We're getting close. We're getting close. This is one for you, Boydie. Just at normal?

1:01:50Evan Peters:Yes.

1:01:50Kelly Reilly:That is good. Funny? Yes. Dramatic?

1:01:52Rebecca Hall:Yep, yep.

1:01:53Evan Peters:Are you allowing it? I am allowing it, but it's not what I would choose for this particular question. Fine. Whatever. Because you're not focusing on what's actually the point of the question.

1:02:02Kelly Reilly:All right, let me press on. we're in the home stretch. Right, okay, next, next, I've got Misfits. If you want to go back for a bit of super, in the same vein as I've got you. Oh my God, James, do you know what?

1:02:09Rebecca Hall:I think we might have to cut you off. How is Misfits not a comedy? That is not a comedy.

1:02:13Evan Peters:I thought it was funny.

1:02:14Rebecca Hall:Right, do you know what? That's a comedy. It was a 45 minute,

1:02:17Evan Peters:hour long, like sci-fi comedy drama. At most, and even then more dramatic than comedy. Of course it's got funny bits, but you're just now randomly naming any show that's got anything vaguely comedic in it.

1:02:30Kelly Reilly:Okay, okay. You're inside. Sorry, Mel. We've disqualified Misfits. I'm so sorry, Mel. I didn't know we were going to get heckled so badly here.

1:02:35Rebecca Hall:Again, we've really fucked this up.

1:02:36Kelly Reilly:All right, next one. Not obscure in any way, but still love it. Had to mention it. Sex Education on Netflix, which is wonderful. And it's a comedy. I mean, even then, though. Oh, my God. Mel has watched Sex Education as well. She probably has. She probably has.

1:02:50Evan Peters:You know it's as much of a drama as anything. It's constantly tucking the issues. She wants out and out, flat out, fun comedy.

1:02:55Rebecca Hall:You know, you're getting like a D minus in this homework.

1:02:58Kelly Reilly:Okay, next I've got Sports Night. Aaron Sorkin, Sports Night. precursor to the West Wing. Oh, actually, they kind of overlapped, but that is his sitcom about like a sports news channel. It's a sitcom. That is a sitcom. Even part of it has a laugh track, so it's definitely a comedy. That is a sitcom.

1:03:11Evan Peters:Finally, at last. Thank you.

1:03:13Kelly Reilly:I've got two more. Okay. We Are Lady Parts. Yeah, I'll allow that. Which is fantastic. Muslim rock band, genius show. Oh, I don't know that. Love it. You don't know it? No. Oh, it's pretty good. Yeah, okay. Need a Mansoor's show. It's fantastic. And the last one I was going to say. Thank God.

1:03:29Rebecca Hall:Hopefully it adheres to the rules of the question is...

1:03:31Kelly Reilly:See, and this is difficult because this is, well, this is the penultimate one. Let's say it's the penultimate one. Chris Gere, Iocash, you're the worst.

1:03:40Rebecca Hall:I don't know that either.

1:03:41Kelly Reilly:And they're just, they're these two terrible people who end up getting together and I really enjoyed it but then I didn't watch the final season because I got bored of it. But until that point I've been having a great old time with it and it was fun.

1:03:50Rebecca Hall:Is this the end?

1:03:51Kelly Reilly:No, the last one and of course the most important I would say of all of the shows we've talked about here is 1993 comedy classic Bonjour La Class starring Nigel Planer and who's this? Oh yes, James Dyer as well. And I highly recommend that you watch my sitcom Bonjour La Class from the 90s.

1:04:07Rebecca Hall:Well, as a test of endurance, that list was... Yeah.

1:04:11Evan Peters:Wow. Wow, that is extraordinary.

1:04:13Rebecca Hall:Boyd.

1:04:14Evan Peters:I've just got a little handful of them, which actually answer the question. And in time for... So John Norton, who's a brilliant writer, John Morton, sorry, who's a brilliant writer, created People Like Us, which were that years ago on BBC, one of the funniest things ever. But he did 2012 about the committee working on the Olympics, and he did W1A which then took the same character played by Hugh Bonneville about the inner workings of the BBC. This year there will be 2026 about the workings of the World Cup but those shows, W1A and W1A and 2012 are flat out fucking hilarious from start to finish and they are not interested in being dramatic or important.

1:04:56Evan Peters:They've got hilarious narration from David Tennant and they're just bliss and you can watch them again and again and again because there's so many gags, gag after gag after gag. That you miss the gags.

1:05:05Rebecca Hall:That you miss the gags

1:05:06Evan Peters:so those I would recommend both of those Black Ops oh that's a good choice that's a good choice that is absolutely celebrates the silliness of comedy and you know influenced by Airplane and Naked Gun and that kind of thing and Black Ops has brilliant visual gags slapstick stupid a lot of these shows rest on having stupid people at the core of them and this certainly does that in a brilliantly hilarious way so I recommend that The Comeback Lisa Kudrow oh The Comeback which I think you should catch up with two seasons two amazingly brilliant seasons constantly funny from start to finish and the new season will be along hopefully in March when HBO Max launches yes and that will be that's one of their shining lights and Michael Patrick King who I interviewed for the last season of And Just Like That the controversial hate watch that was And Just Like That Oh come on was saying how you know how important it is to him that the comeback is flat out fucking hilarious so you know it will reflect what's going on in the world today because they're using AI, there's jokes about AI, but the comeback, the two seasons we've had are just hilarious and start to finish.

1:06:11Evan Peters:So yeah, those are the ones I am listening.

1:06:13Rebecca Hall:Yeah, I'm going to give you an A star if they even do that.

1:06:17Kelly Reilly:So Boydie was the targeted sniper rifle and mine was more of the kind of buckshot shotgun scatter. you're just flailing,

1:06:22Evan Peters:flailing down scattergun approach.

1:06:24Kelly Reilly:Look, I believe in giving Mel value for money. She has subscribed to Pilot Plus. She has given up£3.49 and so I gave her£3.49 worth of recommendations.

1:06:32Evan Peters:I think it's rare that we spend this much time I'm going to listen to the question. And I'm in favour of it, by the way. I'm in favour of it too. But it's partly because James just had a list of every comedy he'd ever thought of. It was indulgent.

1:06:42Rebecca Hall:It was indulgent. Wow.

1:06:43Kelly Reilly:I think you'll find it was a public service.

1:06:45Rebecca Hall:Okay, well.

1:06:46Kelly Reilly:If you would like your own public service, do send in your questions, musings, thoughts, and indeed criticisms of Boyd to pilottv at empiremagazine.com via the wonder of email. Let's move on to the major news headlines this week. And there is a big story, which I was not able to cover last week because it broke after we recorded. now we record now on a Wednesday

1:07:05Rebecca Hall:sorry Steph's fault I knew you were going to say that

1:07:09Kelly Reilly:we don't go out to a Monday so we're not the most topical when it comes to news but that gives us time to reflect

1:07:13Rebecca Hall:don't cause a backlash against me because people want the news come for Steph come for Steph

1:07:19Kelly Reilly:right so I wasn't able to talk about this so I mentioned it on the Empire podcast because I couldn't help myself I don't know what you're talking about right they cast Kratos in God of War and this is incredibly exciting so Kratos brilliant PlayStation game it's now available on other platforms but absolutely love it and then Kratos the God of War who was voiced by the brilliant Christopher Judge who played Teal 'c on Stargate it's G1 there's a TV show it's being adapted from the games the sort of latter games of God of War, God of War 2 the kind of Norse rather than the Greek mythology ones and who was going to be Kratos has been a big source of you know fan speculation who is it?

1:07:55Rebecca Hall:Jesus!

1:07:56Kelly Reilly:he's building up to it are you saying I'm buried the lead slightly? no no no

1:07:59Evan Peters:he's trying to build I understand that you build to the Sorry. Or I was just rambling and going on. To be fair, it better be someone impressive.

1:08:08Rebecca Hall:If it's someone we've never heard of now, it's going to be just shit.

1:08:12Kelly Reilly:I'm giving you background. It's not going to be anyone you've heard of. I'm giving you background.

1:08:17Rebecca Hall:So the whole preamble is completely fucking pointless.

1:08:19Kelly Reilly:A little bit, but what I'm saying is Chris Judge, who voiced him just brilliantly in those games, wanted the role, and he would have been a brilliant Kratos. They haven't cast him. Instead, they have cast Ryan Hurst, who played Opie in Sons of Anarchy and played Beta in Walking Dead. but crucially who voiced Thor in the same game in God of War, he is going to be playing Kratos in the Ron DeMoor TV series. Teresa Palmer has also signed on to become, to be the God Sith. Teresa Palmer, wasn't she the victim in Twin Peaks? No, that's Laura Palmer.

1:08:48Rebecca Hall:That would be quite a turn up.

1:08:50Kelly Reilly:Teresa Palmer was in, among other things, Mixtape. Like she's, yes, right, Australian actress. But I'm really, really excited about this. Love the games, love the character. I kind of wish Chris Judge had been cast as Kratos, I've got to be honest. But if it's not going to be judged, Ryan Hurst is a great choice. And he gives good beard, which is important.

1:09:08Evan Peters:I mean, that was a brilliant build-up to an absolutely bathos of the highest order. Wow.

1:09:15Kelly Reilly:You seem unimpressed, it has to be said. I mean, I've just never heard of the person.

1:09:18Rebecca Hall:Sorry, what's their name? Say again.

1:09:20Kelly Reilly:Ryan Hurst. Ryan Hurst.

1:09:22Rebecca Hall:I'm going to look him up.

1:09:23Kelly Reilly:Not Ryan Reynolds. He's very tall.

1:09:24Rebecca Hall:Oh, really good, really good beard.

1:09:27Kelly Reilly:Yes, there you go. Thank you. He gives good kratos. So that's quite exciting. I'm very much here for this

1:09:32Rebecca Hall:I know I'm going to regret asking this question but I'm going to ask it anyway what is your favourite I don't even know if I should I'm going to do it what is your favourite computer game adaption into a TV show The Last of Us The Last of Us

1:09:46Kelly Reilly:so that was nice and quick and to the point everyone knows that

1:09:49Rebecca Hall:is that your okay what's your second favourite then

1:09:51Kelly Reilly:I mean there haven't been many good ones to be fair okay so I'm I don't think anything comes close to The Last of Us I'm very interested in the Elden Ring adaptation which Alex Garland is currently doing but that is a film so we really can't get into that

1:10:02Rebecca Hall:okay alright I didn't regret asking a question

1:10:04Evan Peters:what about the one on Prime Video you know the one we we reviewed a few weeks ago the big big budget one

1:10:10Kelly Reilly:oh Fallout Fallout but then as we discussed Fallout which is a big hit I don't love I don't dislike it at all but I have not really watched any of season 2 at this point and that kind of speaks volumes okay

1:10:22Evan Peters:in other casting news people you will have heard of wow are going to be in season 3 of Sherwood now I loved seasons 1 and two of Sherwood absolutely brilliant show one of the best shows for years and years and this is the will be the final season and joining the cast are the likes of Rosalie Craig who was brilliant in the Sally Wainwright show which I forgot the title of Riot Women yes right she was brilliant in that Joe Dempsey who's always brilliant Game of Thrones skins etc always good Kirby Hale-Baptiste Sue Johnston from the Royal Family Peter White all these people join Sherwood and the returning cast include Lorraine Ashbourne the great Lorraine Ashbourne who can do no wrong Lindsay Duncan Robert Glenister Robert Lindsay Leslie Manville David Morrissey and Claire Rushbrook it's just a brilliant cast

1:11:11Kelly Reilly:that's fair

1:11:12Evan Peters:and the new season the third season introduces a new family the Wood family it's the picture of working class respectability pillars of the community volunteers at the local church blah blah blah but then obviously there's a dark side to them and they get embroiled in the crime and darkness of the locale. Which is Nottingham. She's Nottingham. Right. Understandable. There we go.

1:11:36Rebecca Hall:Okay, I'm just going to say, and this kind of ties into our beloved, and now I'm calling beloved Mel, right? So, Hayley Cuoco, who we love, and you will love because you also love Big Bang Theory.

1:11:46Kelly Reilly:No, I don't.

1:11:47Rebecca Hall:What?

1:11:47Kelly Reilly:No, I don't. He doesn't love Big Bang Theory. I don't. I have a complicated relationship with the Big Bang Theory because I do feel it is an absolute hate watch. There is something about the Big Bang Theory which is hateable. But I did used to enjoy it when it first started.

1:12:03Rebecca Hall:Oh God, so many different emotions.

1:12:05Kelly Reilly:But yeah, I have complicated feelings towards that show.

1:12:08Rebecca Hall:Okay, well, Kayleigh Cuoco, comedy that she did, which someone said was a spectacular waste of time, you can now watch for free on YouTube. It is called Authors Anonymous. So I haven't watched that, Mel, but that might be a comedy that you want to watch as a 30 minute. You're going back to the listener question. Yeah, sorry, I was just We've moved on, Steph. We're in the news section. Well, that is news. Spent about an hour on it. I'm just saying, you know, as a piece of news, Mel, you know, I'm now...

1:12:34Kelly Reilly:Mel's taken over the podcast. She has. She'll be happy. I'm going to share something else with you. Go on. Did you see the picture? We talked about Sophie Turner on Pilot Plus when we reviewed Steel, but there was a picture of Sophie Turner in costume as Lara Croft in the new Tomb Raider. I know, I thought of you. Phoebe Waller-Bridge's Tomb Raider. You were unhappy. I'm not... I feel like the short shorts and tight top thing feels a bit regressive. It feels like this was Lara Croft when she first came out in the 90s. And, you know... What would you have aware of?

1:13:05Rebecca Hall:Yeah, I don't...

1:13:06Kelly Reilly:I don't know, something more practical from exploring an archaeology?

1:13:09Rebecca Hall:But that is practical. Is it? Oh, I think so. Short shorts and a tight top?

1:13:14Kelly Reilly:I don't know. Something more pockets, I'm saying.

1:13:16Rebecca Hall:I don't think that that image is, like, overtly sexy or anything. Do you know what I mean?

1:13:20Kelly Reilly:No, to be fair, I don't think they have sexualised it overtly at all. I think it's just, it's so close to when she first came out. And that was a, let's be honest, Lara Croft, it was very pervy when the first Tomb Raider first came out. But also, I don't think it necessarily needs to be that close from a visual point of view. I'm perfectly happy to understand that this character wears other outfits. You know, it's fine.

1:13:42Rebecca Hall:Okay, so what are you saying? She should be lighting khakis?

1:13:44Kelly Reilly:Yeah, I'm saying I should be practical. Some kind of technical vest with webbing, cameras and devices and stuff. But she's got the belt. You know, a jumpsuit with killer is what I'm saying, Steph. A jumpsuit with killer.

1:13:55Rebecca Hall:Yeah. No, I think she looks great. Okay. Good.

1:14:01Kelly Reilly:I'm glad we had this talk.

1:14:02Evan Peters:Okay. This is exciting news. You know, Netflix is a joke festival. You know, they do this comedy festival where they have massive stars taking part and they do stand-up specials and they do panels and they do this, that and the other. Well, one of the most exciting things about it is that there's going to be a special episode. Do you know the Rushmore podcast? You should do because it's been a huge influence on the Empire podcast because the Rushmore podcast is where the hosts, Ari Emanuel and Ben Persky, very excited. How about this for dream podcast episode for me? On a special episode, they're going to debate with Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld together, making the case for which episodes of Seinfeld deserve a spot on Mount Rushmore.

1:14:46Rebecca Hall:Okay, that's going to be a great episode.

1:14:48Evan Peters:Jesus fucking Christ.

1:14:49Rebecca Hall:Yeah, that's like your heaven. That is my heaven, yeah.

1:14:51Evan Peters:So, you know, I'm just beyond excited about that prospect. And the other thing I mentioned about Netflix earlier is, yeah, Netflix tops 325 million subscribers now. Plans to boost content spending 10%. How much are they spend on content? $20 billion they'll be spending on content. So if you think the era of, you know, too much TV or whatever is over, I mean, it certainly isn't. Obviously, thankfully, because of this podcast.

1:15:17Rebecca Hall:We need to carry on.

1:15:18Evan Peters:And it is carrying on. But yeah, how incredible is that? 325 million subscribers. Their revenue's up. And basically, you know, they're trying to take over at the moment Warner Brothers, et cetera, which looks like they will. I mean, they're just taking over the world, basically.

1:15:32Rebecca Hall:God, do you remember the days when Netflix was tiny, just a tiny little thing?

1:15:37Kelly Reilly:Yes, when they came into this office, when Ted Sarandos literally came to the Empire office to try and sell us on the concept of Netflix. We were like, eh, it'll never take off.

1:15:46Rebecca Hall:Oh, God. And you're still here. you lot are still here and he's

1:15:50Kelly Reilly:he's done well for himself boy's done good yeah oh dear right okay fine did you watch the trailer for How to Get to Heaven from Belfast? not only have I watched the trailer of How to Get to Heaven you've watched the show I might have done and I can't talk about it this is Lisa McGee who did Derry Giles this is her new show new sitcom and it's about three friends who reunite after the death of an old classmate and it goes from like a wake into a kind of a dark mystery I very much enjoyed the trailer I don't know where this is going but it looks anarchy Yeah, the trailer is excellent. We didn't mention Derry Girls.

1:16:20Kelly Reilly:That's a comedy that she definitely should watch. Yes, we did mention Derry Girls. I mean, not obscure. Not obscure at all. It's massive, yeah.

1:16:25Rebecca Hall:No, but, I mean, you either... Yeah.

1:16:27Kelly Reilly:No, you either love it or you're dead inside. That's ultimately the choice.

1:16:31Rebecca Hall:Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

1:16:34Kelly Reilly:But yeah, this is exciting. All right, but Boyd, you can't talk about it because you've seen it. Yes. Maybe. Maybe. I mean, he's literally...

1:16:40Rebecca Hall:You're not even allowed to say you've seen it.

1:16:42Evan Peters:I think it's one of those ones where you're not even allowed to say you've seen it. Oh, I see. Okay, no, just get rid of that. What are they going to do? It'll be fine.

1:16:48Rebecca Hall:Okay.

1:16:49Evan Peters:There you go. Shall I give you my, you know, my variety whack headline of the week?

1:16:54Rebecca Hall:Oh, yes, please.

1:16:55Evan Peters:Yeah, here we go. Woody Harrelson got, quote, so pissed at Matthew McConaughey whilst filming True Detective because he went method, colon, quote, I wanted to punch the motherfucker in the face. Wow. End quote. How good is that? And this is from an interview with Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughey on Ted Danson's podcast. Do you know Ted Danson's got a podcast? I didn't know Ted Danson on a podcast. He has great people on it called Where Everybody Knows Your Name and they talk about filming the first and best. Well, the last season of True Detective with our friend of the pod, Jodie Foster, was amazing.

1:17:28Evan Peters:It was amazing. But yeah, how good is that? I need to listen to this podcast episode where they talk to each other. Yeah, they both got really... But they're really close friends. McConaughey's all method. McConaughey literally wouldn't go out of character. Woody Allen doesn't give a fucking shit. He's used to playing Woody Boyd in Cheers. So the clash of styles, I think, is really fun, really entertaining.

1:17:45Rebecca Hall:I just re-watched the Between Two Ferns with Matthew McConaughey and Zach Galifianakis, where he teases him about how much marijuana he smokes and it's hilarious.

1:17:55Evan Peters:Woody Harrelson or Matthew McConaughey?

1:17:57Rebecca Hall:Sorry, Matthew McConaughey. Did I say Woody Harrelson?

1:17:58Evan Peters:No, you said Matthew McConaughey. But Woody Harrelson's famous for smoking in vast quantities.

1:18:02Rebecca Hall:Yeah, and they're massive. They're like really good friends, aren't they? So the two together vote. And didn't they weirdly find out they were related on that show? There's something strange about it. But Woody Harrelson is a fascinating character. is his dad was a hitman. Have you listened to his podcast? It's amazing. No. Oh, you should. Okay, there you go. Your time's going to be taken up.

1:18:19Kelly Reilly:Yeah. Okay. Do we have any other news? I'm sure there are a couple of things. I'm sure, so this came out as a news story this week, but I'm sure we knew it already. Did you know that Peter Hoare is doing this Blake 7 reboot? We did know this, didn't we?

1:18:34Evan Peters:I think I knew there was a Blake 7, was a Blake 7 reboot on the course, but I don't think it'd be a big fan. Peter Hall instant-grammed about it didn't he? I am absolutely thrilled about this because I love Blake 7, the original and it's insane that it hasn't been brought back until now it's very exciting and Peter Hall is a brilliant director obviously worked on It's a Sin worked on Your Favourite The Lost of Us Best Episode and we've had him on this podcast haven't we? I'm sure we have I think so yes I think so yes I could be imagining it but I'm sure we've had him on this podcast at some point I mean he pretty much directs most of Russell C.

1:19:10Evan Peters:Davis' shows now. He's so good, yeah. He's directed Dog 2 episodes and stuff. Yeah, but brilliant, exciting, yeah. Yeah. I like that.

1:19:17Rebecca Hall:James, where do you stand on Keenan and Kel?

1:19:20Kelly Reilly:Keenan and Kel, as in Keegan-Michael Key.

1:19:23Rebecca Hall:Keenan and Kel from the Good Burger films. I know this is...

1:19:26Kelly Reilly:I don't know what's happening. Oh, my God. Okay. Keenan and Kel.

1:19:30Rebecca Hall:Keenan and Kel. You never watched any Keenan and Kel? No. Wow, okay. Right, so... I don't know what it is. They're coming back together. Tell us what it is. Okay, so Keenan and Kel are coming back together. Right, it is a film, but it's still interesting. It's still interesting news. For Kenan and Kel, meet Frankenstein. Are you looking up Kenan and Kel?

1:19:46Kelly Reilly:I am, yeah. I've just Googled them.

1:19:48Rebecca Hall:Yeah, so Kenan Thompson's on SNL. You watch SNL, right?

1:19:51Kelly Reilly:No, I hate SNL, famously. What? I find it acutely unfunny.

1:19:54Rebecca Hall:God, every moment that passes, I despise you more.

1:19:58Evan Peters:You know he hates stuff. I mean, that list, partly because he's one that list was so weird because he hates comedy and funny things anyway.

1:20:03Rebecca Hall:That was a great list. But really, SNL you don't like?

1:20:07Evan Peters:Yes, I find it abhorrent. I mean, SNL is incredibly variable in quality. It is often absolutely terrible. I did quite like the Harry Potter take on Heater Driver. That was funny. They did last weekend. Did you see that? No. They did a sketch of if Harry Potter was in a gay romance, you know, using... What's the game they play in Harry Potter? Quidditch. Quidditch. Quidditch instead of ice hockey and blah, blah, blah, blah. It was really funny.

1:20:32Kelly Reilly:As with all these things, it's one of these things that sounds good on paper, but I'm sure I would have found it just squirm-inducing had I seen it. because Nick DeSemmion and Chris Hewitt are big SNL fans and they put on all of these little skits and I routinely hate them. There are one or two. Sorry, Nick, Nick, the editor. Editor of Empire. Yes. I just assume people know who they are. They put on skits. I mean, they don't re-enact them, but they put on on YouTube. They show me little skits from SNL. It sounds like they did re-enact them. No, they're not re-enact them. And the only one I have enjoyed, genuinely enjoyed, was the John Hamm one where he's Sergio.

1:21:01Kelly Reilly:That genuinely made me laugh, which is kind of like that riff on Drag Me To Help. But, yeah.

1:21:06Rebecca Hall:You are really missing some belly laughs in not watching SNL. Honestly, just get on your bike, literally, unbelievable.

1:21:14Evan Peters:I'm excited about the British version coming soon, of course, of SNL.

1:21:17Rebecca Hall:I had not heard this. Where have I been?

1:21:20Evan Peters:Yeah. A British version. Sky is doing a British SNL live. I didn't have a feeling like that. Incredible. Who's going to be part of that cast? Well, they haven't announced the cast yet, but it will be a mix of, you know, famouses and not so famouses, up and coming comedians and stuff. And it will just follow the format. There'll be a guest host, you know,

1:21:36Rebecca Hall:and what is Lorne Michaels involvement in that

1:21:38Evan Peters:he's heavily involved I can thank God I happen to know because I know one of the producers he's literally like talking to them properly about how to do it how to make it work etc I think you might like that does he know it's a brilliant and it's a steady it's a brilliant but whatever happens in the end and you know it will be variable of quality remember the American version is an hour and a half each week of sketches right I mean that's a fucking lot plus musical

1:22:02Rebecca Hall:musical guests

1:22:03Evan Peters:but there's a lot of content in that show so you know it's a huge ambitious move and it's been tried you know and it failed there's been various similar shows but they're going out and out and I think it's brilliant that Sky's actually just trying to do it because it'll give huge opportunities to up and coming comedians and talent and stuff I didn't know we were going down the street why are we even going down the street it's very hard to say it's because I was talking about Keenan and Kel

1:22:28Rebecca Hall:I still don't know

1:22:30Evan Peters:who Keenan and Figgie are

1:22:31Rebecca Hall:Keenan Thompson and Kel Mitchell had a show they were like a duo back in the 90s Keenan and Kel

1:22:35Evan Peters:In the 90s. Yeah, okay.

1:22:37Rebecca Hall:And so they had a load of films, like Good Burger films they were. They were delivery drivers. Do you remember Keenan and Kel? I feel like I need to show you a picture of them. No, no, I remember the Good Burger stuff. But they've got a new project, and it's going to be Shaun of the Dead meets Scooby-Doo. Just saying. It's exciting. I love Keenan and Kel, so I'm excited. But if that wasn't your era of television, it was mine, then you probably don't care. But I care, and so I'm mentioning it.

1:23:00Kelly Reilly:Okay, Steph, that's good. I care that you care.

1:23:03Evan Peters:Oh, my God. Wow. Now, patronising level. I know. I know. That is extreme.

1:23:08Kelly Reilly:I'm calling a lid on news. We're done. Yeah. Okay, we should have more guests because we have more guests. Under Salt Marsh is a new crime thriller miniseries on Sky and it stars Kelly Riley as a former cop-turned-teacher who discovers the body of one of her pupils, an eight-year-old boy, in a local marsh. Only for her former partner, played by Rafe Spall, with whom she did not part, on good terms, to return leading the police investigation. Now, Boydie, rustling away as he is with his magazine there. You once again stepped up to the plate here, didn't you? And spoke to both Rafe and Kelly. I mean, many ways a hero.

1:23:42Kelly Reilly:You are.

1:23:42Evan Peters:Were they fine? They were absolute delight. Yes. Good. 100%. I know Rafe a bit anyway. Do you?

1:23:49Kelly Reilly:Of course you do. Did you go, Boyd? Pretty much. Okay. Well, good. Well, you can listen to Boyd E-chatting with Rafe Spall

1:23:57Evan Peters:and Kelly Riley. Rafe and Kelly, welcome to the Pilot TV Podcast. How are you doing?

1:24:01Jeremy Pope:Pretty good, actually. We're good, yeah.

1:24:02Rafe Spall:Thank you.

1:24:02Evan Peters:You've been paired up for this day of press. And obviously, to me, that indicates you get on, that you've become, you know, friends.

1:24:08Rafe Spall:It's such a relief to actually be doing press with someone that you... God, that sounds awful. That sounds like you hate all of your clothes. Anybody else I've done press, which is not true, but Rafe and I are very, very, very old friends. Yes. And, like, since we were teenagers, pretty much. Well, he was a teenager. I'm older than Rafe. So there's a tremendous amount. He's so generous and so warm and so kind and funny. it just makes this like I feel like it's just we're not faking anything it's just so it makes it enjoyable you're having real conversations yeah it's lovely it's nice yeah yeah one of the

1:24:40Jeremy Pope:things I was excited about today was seeing Kelly again because we get on so well and we had such a good time doing the show even though it's a very uh serious subject matter it was nice to you know

1:24:49Rafe Spall:sit about and it's always a bit of the way that's the kind of the more sort of difficult the subject matter is or serious or emotionally kind of difficult offset is a little bit more fun everyone's looking for the bit of the light reprieve and in the room where we're both looking like drowned rats and freezing cold like we're sharing a little tent and a bag of chips together it just bond you and makes and i i like that realness of it yeah yeah i was going to ask

1:25:15Evan Peters:about that because yeah the whole right from the beginning the tone of um this show is intense right it's very like heightened you're both quite you know you have a lot of stuff going on traumas in your past but so when but when the cameras are off you manage to have fun and you manage to kind of like do you have to do it that way in a way i think it comes pretty naturally we're both a bit

1:25:34Jeremy Pope:like that we don't really stay in character yeah yeah i think that to me the way i found after 25 years of doing this is delivering good work is to actually be as relaxed as you can if you're trying to stay also i think each to their own you know method acting or whatever what's whatever gets you through but my feeling is if i'm in a scene with you and you're there doing emotional recall thinking about your dear departed nan you're in the scene with yourself you're not in the scene with me you know and that's what i loved about acting with kelly love about him kelly is that it just was open and alive and organic in action you know it's not it doesn't feel contrived it feels very loose and fun so in order to get that it's good to have a laugh and bond and chat my favorite thing about acting is sat around on slightly rickety chairs in an easy up um tarpaulin in the rain telling stories yeah telling war stories of telling war stories and and the thing is i think there's this misconception about actors that we sit around self-aggrandizing actors bond through their shared failures so we horror stories horror stories so we sit there we don't talk about our glories we sit about terrible humiliations at the bed yeah and that's maybe that's a very english actor thing i think it definitely is we sit there and we go oh my god i had this audition once i made a dreadful tit of myself yeah you know so you don't feel alone exactly exactly and we recite our bad reviews to each other but as you can tell rafe is very funny

1:27:01Rafe Spall:so like you can't not have a laugh with him i mean there is definitely scenes where we're sort of having a bit of a difficult time and i can't look at him like it's like but he also knows how to lock in and that's the difference that you've got to be able to know when to concentrate and when to when you can but yeah it was um i couldn't think of anybody i'd rather be doing this with

1:27:22Jeremy Pope:remember that scene when i had to open a door and you were behind it and we couldn't stop laughing then that was on the last day do you remember yeah yeah we were on um on the houseboat thing oh yeah and you're like creeping about and that and it was just a thing about opening a door

1:27:35Rafe Spall:i think we thought we were in a comedy that moment and we both like upped it so that was we were both told to turn it down

1:27:41Evan Peters:alright stop now yeah it's frankly inappropriate to kind of corpse in the middle of ever very serious

1:27:48Rafe Spall:I think you had to sit on your funny bone in this but it kind of comes through because it's that sort of humanity you know that warmth humour that sort of broken humour that sort of dry like it's such a beautiful thing to have a quality and a character so that's yeah that was really lovely

1:28:03Evan Peters:I don't know what particularly drew you to well I mean it's obviously great writing is a really interesting story but i was fascinated by the fact it's rare to have a a man and a woman lead male female characters who are not in any way going to engage with each other sexually they're not and there's no will they won't they it's just from the start they're just the ex-colleagues who kind of have this history that's interesting isn't it very much so yeah very much so and we've talked

1:28:29Rafe Spall:about that a lot today actually that that that element is taken out so it frees us to to really find this sort of weirder intimacy um that is almost like siblings that's sort of how i felt but they just know each other they've been through stuff together um but there is a there's a there's almost an element of real care for one another despite the the the broken fractured part of their relationship and then by the end like i know i can't give anything away but there is just such a knowledge and knowing of each other and and um that i'm all right in the world if you're there you know and i really felt that jackie had that with him and even though he's going to go off and they're parting ways again that this being healed between us and i i can i can go out in the world again and i'm going to be all right knowing that you're in the world absolutely i think it gives

1:29:22Jeremy Pope:space for a sort of deeper level of relationship doesn't it is if you've got two people that have you know that um have the same sexuality in this case um you know say if they were two straight people who were single say if you remove that frisson that idea of like possible if you take that away and you look at someone else and go right that's not there you're not trying to impress me i'm not impressed by any of it um all that whatever you get to the essence of someone that's right and the understanding of someone when that big elephant in the room is removed that gives birth to a sort of deeper level as kelly said deeper level of intimacy not to say we couldn't

1:30:00Rafe Spall:have had that chemistry i'm not i mean we actually played husband and wife we did play husband and

1:30:07Jeremy Pope:wife um yeah yeah yeah um he kills coppers which was based on a jake arnold yeah so it's kind of

1:30:13Rafe Spall:it is lovely you know to meet each other in different times in your life because almost like every decade we've worked together and with these different aspects of character that are not Rafe and Kelly but these so it's quite fabulous to see to see those on side by side I really want to watch He Kills Coppies again

1:30:30Evan Peters:yeah me too yeah that would be interesting it was really good yeah it was great I loved the book it was a classic and he bought J. Carr's flat once anyway we digress I digress I'm not about that but did you having worked together before like going back to when you were really young and have that bond did you you stay interested

1:30:47Jeremy Pope:in each other's careers did you watch yellowstone for example definitely man i've been so like i said this earlier but so you know because i knew known kelly forever and um for her to go off and become a massive star on american television i have an enormous amount of pride and admiration and like i've always been like oh yeah i know kelly yeah kelly's my friend just checking the

1:31:06Rafe Spall:words well just going oh they're still at it they were still doing it we're still having like you know being able to watch and see people's faces get older that you love as well like i love that yeah i love that me too there's such a tenderness about it and because we were so young when we started there is that there is that um it's not just about respect and liking each other's work it is just like i really love hanging out with rafe and his partner and his baby and it's just like you know part it there is certain people that become you know family and it doesn't mean that you have to see each other all the time, but there is that element, and we're really lucky that we were able to then lend that knowledge or that ease with each other, that comfortability to be able to say, fuck off, you know what I mean?

1:31:49Rafe Spall:Like just how they speak to each other. Like you said, you're not trying to impress.

1:31:53Evan Peters:Yeah, they're constantly swearing at each other, actually. Yeah, they are. Rarely is there a sentence that they're not shouting at each other, saying, fuck you, fuck this. Yeah, it's cool.

1:32:01Jeremy Pope:But we're of the same generation of actors, which means that we have similar sensibilities. You know, each generation will have a different sensibility we're from a generation of actor who when we left um well we both didn't go drama school but when we when we became professional actors our dreams and aspirations were to work in the subsidized theater sector were to work at the national theater to work at the royal court that was what we that was a be all and end all for us our heroes are like

1:32:24Rafe Spall:gary oldman yeah exactly you know like if you ask like michael fassbender or tom hardy like all that's our generation he's our hero like work really hard be like fearless um and show up and

1:32:37Jeremy Pope:it's not about you and but also we we when we first started it wasn't like you could leave drama school and then go and get on yellowstone that wasn't a thing that existed right no that is a thing now now you can now you can leave drama school and go and be on some huge netflix show that's going to go international. The industry wasn't really just then international in the same way as it is now. It was beginning to happen, but it wasn't like, it was like a, so if you look at our generation of people like Fassbender and Ruth Wilson, say, Andrew Rysbra and... Andrew Scott. Andrew Scott and Eddie Redmayne and Cumberbatch.

1:33:18Jeremy Pope:These are people that have been put in the hour. There's not an overnight success. I'm proud of this generation. Me too, yeah.

1:33:23Rafe Spall:It's really nice to be part of it, actually.

1:33:25Jeremy Pope:There's not an overnight success in any of them.

1:33:27Rafe Spall:We all grew up together. We were all exactly...

1:33:29Evan Peters:There's no golden tickets for anyone. And also the stuff they choose to do is often, is like this show, I think, very kind of, it feels like making big statements, got lots of interesting themes, serious work, proper cinematic TV as itself. They've all been in different shows, most of those actors you mentioned, as you have. So it does feel like that also helps as well, that people are making this kind of epic, ambitious show. that attracts top level actors. It does help.

1:33:55Jeremy Pope:The landscape's really good. And the thing is, there is so much stuff out there. Competition, there's a lot of jostling for attention. And I think that the cream rises to the top, hopefully.

1:34:07Rafe Spall:There's something quiet about this, though. I don't know about you, but I've watched a lot of TV and I love it. And it's always trying to grab my attention all the time, where I can't even hear myself think. And that's fine for certain things. but this had a quietness and a thoughtfulness that felt quite scandy quite you know art house film it felt very sort of modest and then the internal was huge it's a slow burn yeah it starts

1:34:36Evan Peters:off you're getting used to the characters and then that gets it gets more and more it kind of

1:34:39Rafe Spall:gets more and more intense and spectacular it feels like 90s it feels yeah no i agree so the the the the the the palette of it just felt up my street like very wet though i mean i've only got

1:34:52Evan Peters:up to episode five i've got one more to go and i think episode six even the storms obviously but

1:34:55Rafe Spall:you're already you're getting a lot of rain storm comes in how painful is it to be that wet

1:35:01Evan Peters:for quite a long period of time we're very hardcore as i said we're from a certain generation

1:35:05Jeremy Pope:you can deal with the challenge we laugh in the face of it we don't care we like it we prefer it yeah if i've been drenched yeah i prefer it if possible much i'm 10 better at acting when i'm soaked. Okay, I've seen that. Yeah. No, look, it was obviously...

1:35:18Rafe Spall:When you were signing up for, we were filming throughout winter in North Wales about a storm. Does it get a bit... Are there days where you're like, I'm a bit of a grumpy bitch because I'm so wet and cold? Maybe. You'll give me a chip. Like, I'll be fine. Lots of wetsuits, lots of hot water bottles, lots of blankets, and then a lot of just giving over to it. Yeah. And just sort of allowing... For me, it was the wind machines that were the hardest because they're so loud and they sound like a jet engine and you're trying to do a scene and you're cold and tired and you're now having to scream to be heard and then you know you're going to have to ADR it.

1:35:53Rafe Spall:They were the hard ones for me.

1:35:54Jeremy Pope:But also, Kelly had to go down in this ditch when it was minus 10 degrees, pull a dummy out of a freezing cold thing. Yeah, it was really heavy. She didn't moan at all. She was so game. It was honestly one of the most impressive things I've seen. So I then couldn't be a big gold blouse and start moaning about things after that, could I?

1:36:11Rafe Spall:that's true because it's true though that's your job though isn't it you know but i'm not going to go well kelly didn't moan i'm not going to start i did get ill after that though oh you did yeah

1:36:18Evan Peters:got it the final final i have to ask you particularly about one of my favorite shows of last year which were amazing in smoke oh yeah absolutely bonkers show have you yeah yeah i don't i've seen it oh you gotta see it right really you're fantastic yeah thanks very much and the whole show is brilliantly insane yeah that's what they're gonna i think they've made me want to do

1:36:35Jeremy Pope:more of them. Oh, I hope so. Obviously, I'm long gone. I'm dead. Old Johnny Smalley kills me, doesn't she? Pretty cool.

1:36:40Evan Peters:That's true. There we go. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me. It's been brilliant. It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.

1:36:46Kelly Reilly:That was Rafe Spall and Kelly Riley and we move on now to this week's reviews. And first up this week, we have Wonder Man on Disney+. This is the latest MCU show and I would like to say a decidedly different take on the superhero genre and this is Yaya Abdul-Mateen II as Simon Williams, an actor desperate to land his dream role as the titular Wonder Man. The only problem being that he has superpowers, and that would disqualify him from working in Hollywood. So he seeks guidance from a knowledgeable, experienced thespian, specifically Ben Kingsley's Trevor Slattery, who you will remember from Iron Man 3 and Shang-Chi.

1:37:22Kelly Reilly:However, if you don't, then that doesn't matter. Why, you ask? Because this is a Marvel spotlight show. If you recall Echo, and I'm sure you don't, When that came out, they coined this Marvel Spotlight banner. And what this essentially means is this show will, A, have absolutely no bearing on any of the Marvel movies going forward, and B, you don't need to have seen any Marvel movies to watch it or understand it. So it's kind of like a standalone thing, if you will. Though I'm not sure it's 100 % true, as I kind of think it helps a lot if you've seen Iron Man 3 to watch this show, and it helps a little bit more if you've seen Shang-Chi.

1:37:56Kelly Reilly:But, you know, anyway. This was created by Shang-Chi's director, Destin Daniel Cretton, alongside veteran comedy writer Andrew Guest, who works on 30 Rock, Community, Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Boydie, is this a super-powered Barry? Is it a less problematic entourage, or is it a pale imitation of the studio? It's a bit of all of those things.

1:38:15Evan Peters:It's also a bit of the franchise, remember? Which is the superhero-specific one, yes. Indeed. Very close relation to that show, which I really liked and was sadly cancelled after one season because it didn't really catch on particularly. I thought it was really funny. But you liked it. And Richard E. Grant, did you watch it? No. I mean that's another one that could be in the list of questions because that was an out and out funny show back to you Mel back to you Mel yeah try out try out the franchise it must be on Sky now on Sky you know pay as you go whatever it's called but anyway Skygo Skygo thank you or yeah exactly or on demand Sky on demand

1:38:50Rebecca Hall:is it?

1:38:51Evan Peters:yeah I think so

1:38:52Rebecca Hall:is the app just called Skygo? it doesn't matter back to the point back to the point

1:38:56Evan Peters:back to the point I really like this I thought it was an absolute breath of fresh air and I think it's such a relief. And I know what you mean. I mean, I have seen Iron Man 2. I have seen Shang-Chi and all that. Iron Man 3. 3, sorry. The Shane Black one. 3, indeed. And so I didn't... I know the background and stuff, but it doesn't... It really doesn't matter. I think you just get different things from it knowing those films than you would if you come to it just afresh because it is... It's in a very funny, entertaining, very well done take on the superhero takeover of our culture and just the way Hollywood works and you know in terms of auditioning there's funny auditioning scenes there's the fact that um that the character Ben Kingsley's character is this kind of old school theatrical kind of figure who thinks he knows everything about the business and imparts his wisdom down to Yahya Abdul-Mateen's character.

1:39:55Evan Peters:And that relationship I found really believable and authentic and funny at the same time. And everything that poor Yahya Abdul-Mateen's character goes through. And interesting, in the first episode, I watched the first two. This is the show you obviously watched. You obviously watched the movie before. I did, in fact, watch all eight episodes. To what you were referring. I would happily have carried on watching it, but I just didn't have time. But the superpower element doesn't barely even arrive.

1:40:18Rebecca Hall:Touches it in the first two. Yeah, in the first episode.

1:40:22Evan Peters:It's almost like you could, dispense with it really I mean you know I'm sure as it goes on there'll be more importance to his superpowers but the key being

1:40:30Rebecca Hall:that the characters are interesting enough that you don't actually feel like you even need that because they're so interesting it's interesting enough

1:40:34Evan Peters:to follow a young well he's not that young a wannabe actor an actor who's fairly down on his luck he's not having much luck when it comes to auditioning and that's established right from the start the way he's treated and the way and the difference in treatment of you know A-listers and Z-listers and background artists and all of that and of directors and what the director is looking for. There's a brilliantly eccentric kind of art house director character who they want to make this film that he wants to be cast in, the Wonder Man film. It's very self-referential. It's very meta. But even then, the metaness and the self-referentiality, again, even if you don't, it doesn't necessarily, it's not the most important thing about the show.

1:41:17Evan Peters:The show itself, he's a really interesting, fun character to be with, to hang out with and to see him down on his luck and what he's going to try and do and how far he will go to how far you need to go to make an impression in this world that he's in I just thought it was really entertaining and funny and well written and well acted and I think he's brilliant Yair Abdul-Mateen I think Ben Kingsley's best I mean apart from what's the gangster film Sexy Beast in which he's absolutely genius his greatest role he's incredible in that but I really like him when he's doing comedy like this because he's really really, he manages to...

1:41:51Rebecca Hall:He's a talented comic actor. Yeah, you believe in him,

1:41:53Evan Peters:but his timing and everything that is funny. And his kind of lack of self-awareness, he does brilliantly. And, you know, we're always... The thing about Sir Ben Kingsley is, you know, the idea that he wants to be called Sir, which I think was true at one point briefly, but it's certainly not been true for years. And, you know, he's happy not to be called Sir. I think he's a really good sport. The whole character, the whole set-up of this, it shows what a good sport he is. And I really enjoyed it.

1:42:14Rebecca Hall:Yeah, I could not agree with... I really enjoyed kind of this sort of element of quite passive comedy but I had a few belly laughs. I watched the first two episodes. I think, yeah, Sir Ben Kingsley's character. At one time, this hugely successful actor and then something happens which will be revealed. I won't spoil it.

1:42:34Kelly Reilly:I mean, it's fine. People have seen Iron Man 3. He was the Mandarin. You'll never see him coming.

1:42:39Rebecca Hall:What if they haven't? I don't know what that voice is, by the way.

1:42:41Kelly Reilly:That's the Mandarin voice. Spot on.

1:42:43Rebecca Hall:Anyway, as this kind of...

1:42:44Kelly Reilly:Unlike Ben Kingsley's Scouse accent which wanders all around the Midlands at one point.

1:42:48Evan Peters:Yeah, that's true.

1:42:49Rebecca Hall:Yeah, I do. Well, I like the fact that he's kind of like fumbling through the wreckage of a once celebrated career in this. And he's got... I really enjoyed a particular scene where he goes back to like his director's house and this house is absolutely... Oh my God, it's sensational, this house. But he gets slightly angry. They have a little bit of an altercation with him. I really enjoyed that. But yeah, Yaya, I just... What? And you immediately attach to this character and his desire to not just succeed in the industry, but obviously, yes, there are these huge echoes of the studio, but not just to see, but to be the best.

1:43:30Rebecca Hall:And he's really focused and he's got these ideas about what he wants to do and how he's going to be the best. And you really are rooting for him from the beginning. And then there's that scene where he goes to the audition and he has to just sign a waiver. And again, I think this is in the trailer for it, where he says, just sign here to say you've got no superpowers. And it's, yeah, it's, yeah, magic. I really enjoyed it.

1:43:51Evan Peters:I like the fact that the references in it are very, are complete, sometimes completely out there. Like, I don't know, there was a reference to Kafka at one point or something. It just, it's very free with its references. Yeah, it's kind of like a,

1:44:02Rebecca Hall:yeah, that's what I'm saying, I suppose, about like passive, passive comedy in a way. It's not, it's not out there. It's just, but there's a lot of laughs in it that you don't.

1:44:09Evan Peters:Yeah, but what I mean, I think it's true to itself. It feels like, because it's partly about the extent to which films are made by committee, and can you have, you know, this director is a maverick, the kind of director you would unleash on a Marvel film, taking a bold move to it.

1:44:26Rebecca Hall:Von Kovac.

1:44:27Evan Peters:Yeah. And I think part of the meta nature of the series is it's commentating, isn't it, on the idea that a superhero film can be artistically, creatively valid and be directed by someone, like Chloe Zhao doing whatever that Marvel film was. Eternals Eternals it's kind of it's commenting on that whole phenomenon and but some of the references within that are quite out there and obscure and random and you can't necessarily they're not necessarily what you might think it would be referring to in terms of the pop culture jokes that it has and I loved all that it's very freewheeling and unpredictable in terms of it's a take on pop culture James

1:45:02Rebecca Hall:please unleash your absolute love for this I thought it was fine

1:45:06Kelly Reilly:I didn't love it I thought I thought I did watch all of it, obviously but I think it wants to be it wants to be the studio it wants to be Barry it wants to be all of these things I just don't think the script is sharp enough it doesn't like it's satire lands but it's gentle satire it doesn't have teeth and I feel like it just needed to be slightly bolder I like the fact that meta as it is it's not meta within Marvel it's meta within the industry like they're talking about Ryan Murphy they go to Joey Pantoliano's house like Josh Gad is in it and what I would say is arguably the best episode of the season, which I want to say is episode four, The Doorman, which is all in black and white.

1:45:43Kelly Reilly:That's really, really good. But generally, the show is quite funny without being funny, funny. You know, it's satirical without being particularly observant or cutting. Like, it's fine. It's good. For me, it was a quintessentially three-star show, but I really enjoyed it. I thought it was loads of fun. I was just a little disappointed because I thought it just needed to stretch a little bit further. It needed to be a little bit cleverer in its observations a little bit funnier in its jokes just to go that little bit further um all of that said what i like about this most is that it is the least marvel marvel thing you'll ever see it is um it genuinely doesn't feel like it's even connected to marvel at all the super powered aspect of it is such a small part of this story it's you could take it out and it would largely be unchanged which is a good thing right i agree completely and i really liked that about it and it does have that Barry-ish feel, which is the clashing of the inherent ridiculousness of acting in Hollywood with something larger than life.

1:46:40Kelly Reilly:In that case, you know, contract killing. In this case, being superpowered. And you don't really need to care about the wider MCU in the slightest to enjoy that side of it. And I think, you know, it's a big swing for them and it is a very different thing. And I actually quite like that they've, you know, they're aware of superhero fatigue. They literally even reference it. And they're trying to do something different, which I think is good. I just wish it was a little bit tighter, a little bit clever. You compare it to something like Barry. Barry is so well written and so well observed. Brilliantly executed.

1:47:09Kelly Reilly:And also I think it doesn't help this show that it comes relatively hot on the heels of the studio, which is so, so, so good in this area. And does it so, so, so well.

1:47:20Evan Peters:So, so, so. So, so, so well. So, so, so, so, so.

1:47:23Kelly Reilly:Right. And I think really that's to this show's detriment because unfortunately it doesn't compare particularly favorably to that, which is a shame. whereas had it come before that I think you'd perhaps give it a little bit more a little bit more room to breathe but like I say I watched all eight episodes only half an hour each I had a good time with it but I didn't have a great time with it

1:47:43Rebecca Hall:I'm surprised

1:47:44Evan Peters:I'm not because it's a comedy it's not really the judge the man to judge comedy so as we've seen I mean you could argue

1:47:52Kelly Reilly:that it not being funny it's perfect for me

1:47:54Rebecca Hall:no I really did I really loved the character of Simon I really I thought I really

1:47:58Kelly Reilly:yes so did I I think he plays it brilliantly and I really like that because this is a character-led show. It is all character. It is not plot and it is certainly not Marvel or superheroes or spectacle. It is all about this very small, very intimate character journey. And I will say the other thing is that Ben Kingsley, who played Travis Lattery brilliantly in Iron Man 3 because there was this big rug pull, the whole Mandarin reveal. It was a masterstroke. I really didn't enjoy him in Shang-Chi because I felt like the character then became... He was still a caricature but he wasn't funny. And I'm like, you can have him as a caricature if he's hilarious, but you can't have him as a caricature if he's not funny.

1:48:33Kelly Reilly:In this show, he is not a caricature. He actually feels more lived in. He feels like a genuine person. And I like that they evolve that character. And he's gently funny, but he is funny. But I think, I like that he feels like a proper, rounded human in this, which I, yeah, I appreciate it though.

1:48:50Evan Peters:I think you have to kind of, I mean, it is effective. It doesn't compare to the studio, but I think you have to kind of go...

1:48:57Rebecca Hall:It's not trying to, though, is it?

1:48:58Evan Peters:it's trying to a bit I don't know it has a lot of the same it's set in a similar world particularly similar world to the franchise and it's making similar observation

1:49:08Kelly Reilly:like when they call Ryan Murphy on the phone in the first episode

1:49:10Evan Peters:yeah to some extent but I think it's different tone is a good thing I think it is different and it mocks it out as being different

1:49:17Kelly Reilly:well it's not as chaotic and mad and overtly comedic as the studio no because this is gently funny I would agree with that in the same way that but it's like Barry without the hard like Barry has a dark edge to it this doesn't really have a dark edge

1:49:31Evan Peters:yeah I like that see again going back to the listener question I like the fact this isn't trying to be dark or particularly deep and meaningful yeah it's very

1:49:38Rebecca Hall:it's not massively dynamic no right

1:49:40Kelly Reilly:but it has like I said that fourth episode which is a real it's one of those departure episodes where they just go off on a tangent really really nice oh I need to watch that yeah because I've only

1:49:49Rebecca Hall:watched two same yeah

1:49:51Kelly Reilly:I'm hooked I only want to carry my shit yeah it's worth it like short episodes whiz through it as I did in an evening so yeah Wonder Man then debuts on the 28th which is Wednesday there you go

1:50:03Evan Peters:Disney Plus yes

1:50:04Kelly Reilly:next up we have The Beauty also on Disney Plus which as you already heard is Ryan Murphy at his Ryan Murphyist and it was created by Murphy and Matt Hodgson and has I've got to be honest one of the most outrageous cold opens I have ever seen in my life set as it is to Prodigy's Firestarter no less Steph Beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder but was this batshit concoction beautiful to you? Tell us.

1:50:31Rebecca Hall:Batshit it was. Yeah, I mean, when you sit down to watch this, you have to, you're immediately, it's a rollercoaster ride as you have alluded to from the beginning. You sit down and it is no holds barred. Bella Hadid, which I believe this is her first ever acting, in her first ever acting role, where she acts as a model, what she actually is in real life. Must have been a stress. Obviously, she's the face of this show as well. And she's very good. She's very good. Yeah. It's fucking demented, isn't it? The first five minutes of this are, as you said, the most Ryan Murphy-esque I've ever seen. Like, the model goes off the runway.

1:51:15Rebecca Hall:She starts assaulting people. She's in search of water. Am I allowed to say what happens to her?

1:51:21Kelly Reilly:I won't say.

1:51:22Rebecca Hall:Shall I not say?

1:51:23Kelly Reilly:Let's just say, I mean, it takes a turn, doesn't it? It's absolutely wild. No, let's not say it. I'm no expert on spoilers, but I would say it.

1:51:32Rebecca Hall:It's, God, it's gruesome. It's like, it just hits you. It's like a massive slap in the face of, you know, what we expect from Ryan Murphy. The colours, the action, everything that's going on. You feel kind of sick. It is that kind of rollercoaster TV ride. And then you get introduced to these two detectives in it, who, you know, Evan Peters, I absolutely love, Rebecca Hall, also I love. And they've got a great backstory, but essentially, I think we need to make the point that this book, the book of this, was, this is based on a book that came up before, but it came up before The Substance, okay?

1:52:10Rebecca Hall:Because lots of people are, and I think James has also said this is Substance, the TV show.

1:52:14Evan Peters:Yeah.

1:52:14Rebecca Hall:But this was commissioned before Substance, right? So they bought the rights to the book.

1:52:18Evan Peters:They bought the rights,

1:52:19Rebecca Hall:okay, before. So yeah, so So Evan Peters' character, Cooper Madison, and Rebecca Hall's character, Jordan Bennett, are brought together as FBI agents and they are sent to various corners of the planet to sort of uncover why there's been a spate of gruesome crime scenes and what the hell is going on. Again, I don't want to give too many spoilers, but it's essentially a kind of commentary on how we as a nation seem to be so obsessed with physical beauty, physical perfection, and the pursuit of it at all costs. Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Personally, I loved it, but I did have to hide slightly behind my hands at points which were so, I mean, some of it felt very alien.

1:53:11Rebecca Hall:Do you know what I mean? As in the film Alien. There's rebirths in it. there's a lot of fucking slime. It is a lot. If you were in any way squeamish, this is not the show for you. I personally, I loved it. I loved it. I thought it was great.

1:53:33Evan Peters:I do think this is the acceptable face of Ryan Murphy.

1:53:35Rebecca Hall:Okay.

1:53:36Evan Peters:Like we've had recently...

1:53:37Rebecca Hall:It's unapologetically Ryan Murphy.

1:53:39Evan Peters:Well, it's not even that that's important to me, personally. I think when he does, you know, recently he did the serial killer strand, shall we say yes the monster strand I find that when he does those shows which he often executive produced he didn't the last one which made clear what was the most recent one Ed Gein Ed Gein Ed Gein Ed Gein he was just executive producer he didn't direct or write any of those he has directed and written quite a lot like the Menendez brothers and the Dharma one which was those ones I have difficulty with I mean and the All's Fair type stuff All's Fair was like famously terrible.

1:54:19Evan Peters:Although, I think it was exaggerated how bad it was with all the zero rating. People decided it was an easy thing to trash.

1:54:27Rebecca Hall:People took against that because of Kim Kardashian. Let's be honest.

1:54:30Kelly Reilly:Yeah, totally. What did the heat boardroom think of that one, Staff? I mean, they didn't necessarily.

1:54:34Rebecca Hall:I don't think anybody was thinking it was absolutely horrendous. I think it was unfairly dismissed from the outset because Kim Kardashian was in it. I think that's an element of it.

1:54:44Evan Peters:I agree, yeah. But this, I think, when is that its best? and this reminds me of classic American Horror Story. This could have been, you know, American Horror Story season. And I think the reason why is because it's incredible. Interestingly, I talked to most of the interviews that you will have heard in which I talked to the cast, Ashley Kutcher, et cetera. I mainly, because I'm fascinated by Ryan Murphy. I think he's so prolific. He's so hardworking and he's always got so many projects on the go that I find it fascinating. What is it like working with him? And that was my main question to all of them was about him and what it's like working with him and how he casts his shows and how they work.

1:55:19Evan Peters:And I was not surprised to find out that they did, and I've heard this before from other people who've been in his shows, that he's deliberately and unashamedly kind of a bit ramshackle the way he works. He will improvise in terms of a scene, and he will add scenes in, take scenes out from the script. He will completely change the way a show is going in the middle of filming it and making it and writing it. he's kind of works off the cuff it feels like that and it does feel like that and sometimes I think that ends up being really ramshackle to the point where it's a bit it's kind of terrible but I think in this case at its best it's very freeing and it's very fun and it's and you can sense that everyone's having a good time and actually it is having I had a good time watching it and I think in a weird way it's so grotesque and the body horror is so extreme that it's almost cartoon like and I mean I'm not particularly that squeamish anyway and I love horror films and I love so this is right up my alley anyway but I actually think probably even people who might think they would find it too much to deal with because it's so cartoonish and the comic book origins I think are there for all to see and it doesn't take itself seriously it's quite tongue in cheek that the extremes of that you could probably maybe even have to deal with because it's not really realistic it's totally out there and absurd a lot of it the body horror element to it so I enjoyed all of that and I think for me the whole thing came down to why I really like this series is is the Yacht Rock bit where the character played by Anthony Ramos suddenly sings, sailing, in its entirety, in the car, driving along, alongside Jeremy Pope.

1:56:56Evan Peters:He's like, who the fuck is this? Like, black guys don't like, you know, Christopher Cross. You know, an incredibly middle-of-the-road Yacht Rock classic, like, sailing. And then they do another Christopher Cross song later on. The fact that it takes five minutes out of the running time of this show to have this scene, which is completely, it's completely indulgent. it doesn't have to be there whatsoever it just kind of you know it's a funny moment I love that and I think that for me set up the fact that this is a thing there's 11 episodes of this it's a fairly basic premise that you know you think this is going to end up being incredibly repetitive and how are they going to spin out for 11 episodes well I watched like I think I watched 8 because I was interviewing because I was interviewing I thought I would watch as many as I possibly can and I'm glad I did because it somehow does manage to stretch this premise I mean to almost breaking point but with backstory flashback episodes and episodes that focus on one character particularly, it does manage to make it entertaining and fun all the way through so far.

1:57:51Evan Peters:And I'm sure it will through all the extraordinary 11 episodes that there will be in the end of the show. So I really had a good time.

1:57:57Rebecca Hall:It does, yeah, to your point, it does feel like Ryan Murphy has had a lot of fun here. He has gone...

1:58:03Evan Peters:I think he always does.

1:58:04Rebecca Hall:Yeah, I think he always does. But this is... But we don't always. There's some incredible dance scenes. Like in the first episode, I really enjoyed, yeah, there's a dance scene in that episode, which I really liked. and then I suppose what I'm saying it's just constant though doesn't it? Bang, bang, bang, bang every scene is relentless.

1:58:21Evan Peters:And before James reveals what he thought which I'm intrigued to know I love the fact the other thing that I think sums it up is you've got this buddy cop thing going on with Evan Peters and Rebecca Hall as cop partners and they're having sex within the first 10 seconds of you meeting them and that is classic again. There's no messing about other shows are they? Will they? Won't they? Are they? Aren't they? They're doing it. They're literally doing it the first five seconds of seeing them. And that, I think, that adds to the entertainment value massively.

1:58:47Rebecca Hall:I know what you mean about, I suppose, where I'm saying if you're in any way squeamish, don't watch it. Yeah, there is a sort of comedic element to it.

1:58:57Kelly Reilly:Yeah, it's ridiculous.

1:58:58Rebecca Hall:But James, what did you think?

1:59:00Kelly Reilly:I am not a Ryan Murphy fan. No. Like, at all.

1:59:04Rebecca Hall:Why?

1:59:05Kelly Reilly:Stay your case. Well, I don't like the kind of lurid approach he has to stuff. but also he is anything but subtle. He is the least subtle story. I appreciate that. And there's a bit in this where a character goes like, I'm going to turn you into a Chad. What's a Chad? You're an insult. What's an insult? It's like everyone watching this knows what these things are. You don't need to educate people on insult culture. It's absolutely fine. But he is a little ham-fisted. But that is his thing. And I think if you lean into it, which this show very much does, it works. I actually really enjoyed this.

1:59:36Kelly Reilly:and this is probably, and look, this is not saying a lot, but this is probably my favourite Ryan Murphy show since Glee. But that's mainly because I don't really like Ryan Murphy shows. But yeah, I thought the opening of this was absolutely audacious. I thought the introduction of, as you say, Evan Peters and Rebecca Hall was extraordinary. And then it goes on there and you're captivated by this. Like, it's fascinating. And the Jeremy Pope sequence, when that kicks off, you're just like, this is mad. It is so unbelievably mad. And yet, it's incredibly watchable. And it's incredibly enjoyable. The only thing that has given me pause, Boyd, is you telling me it's 11 hours long.

2:00:14Kelly Reilly:Like, that maybe makes me think, I don't know that I could quite make it through that.

2:00:19Evan Peters:Running time is great. It's 11 episodes. Right. They're not all an hour long, though. Sure. But a lot of them are. That's a lot. I mean, it is a lot. But somehow, I think it sustains it. It does so far, anyway. I think I'm up to seven or eight, yeah.

2:00:30Kelly Reilly:But I had a very good time with this first episode. I thought it was really good.

2:00:33Evan Peters:There's a show in which Isabella Rossellini, have you seen her bit yet? No, I haven't. She wears the most fucking ridiculous outfits known to humanity. And clearly, Ryan Memphis is going, I'm going to get Isabella Rossellini off Blue Velvet and other legendary shows, and I'm just going to have incredible fun with dressing her up as a lunatic fashion victim. And she's bonkers in it, and brilliantly so. Everyone is insane in it, and that is very much to be enjoyed. I'm glad you liked it. I'm glad too. I think it's one of my favourite Ryan Murphys ever.

2:01:04Kelly Reilly:Yeah, and I think, you know, this is it. Like, Ryan Murphy at his Ryan Murphius. Whereas Glee, arguably, is Ryan Murphy at his least Ryan Murphy. So I like the poles, but I don't like the mid stuff.

2:01:16Evan Peters:Well, this goes back to Nip Tuck, of course. That was a brilliant series. Do you know what? I actually really like Nip Tuck as well. Yeah, Nip Tuck was great. And this is his most kind of body-obsessed show since Nip Tuck. In fact, there's elements, literally there's cosmetic surgery scenes that are horrendous. Yeah, Nip Tuck was good, actually. Yeah, Nip Tuck was good. and by the way there's a but Nick Tuck

2:01:33Rebecca Hall:was ultimately character driven as well it was

2:01:35Kelly Reilly:and it wasn't like Ryan Murphy had not yet learned to be Ryan Murphy at that point it did get

2:01:44Evan Peters:really out there there was a serial killer line and it went mad by the end of it I think it went full Murphy because he learned he could do well and be absolutely nuts but I want to mention you know he is the king of stunt casting right Ryan Murphy I mean we talked about Bella Hadid in that first scene that incredible first scene people coming up in this series and I don't know when this particular person pops up I know like Meghan Trainor's in it the singer Billy Eichner's in it Ben Platt's in it but also Nicola Peltz-Beckham is in it

2:02:13Rebecca Hall:no how topical Brooklyn Beckham's

2:02:16Evan Peters:controversial wife oh god I need to find out right okay she's not

2:02:20Rebecca Hall:herself she's not controversial herself but yeah well I mean do you know what I'm going to make I'm going to say something that everyone's going to go oh my god you're full of shit right I I watched Lola her film oh yeah did you? yeah I thought is he on Amazon Prime Prime Vida? I'm going to find out I think she's an okay actress really? yeah that's interesting I thought it was okay I can spot her

2:02:42Evan Peters:but then again she might have been in the background she might be in the background of like fashion show scenes or something oh I've got to find out

2:02:49Rebecca Hall:but yeah

2:02:49Evan Peters:she is officially in the cast list she was cast so I don't know whether she speaks or not but yeah she's in there somewhere and we have to find out where.

2:02:59Rebecca Hall:We have to find out where.

2:03:00Evan Peters:I did mention this last week to our boss, by the way. But anyway, carry on. This is heat business. Right. Should we get back to the podcast? Yes.

2:03:06Kelly Reilly:Okay, brilliant. Well, The Beauty, which is on Disney Plus. Where, Boydie? The Beauty is on Disney Plus on...

2:03:13Evan Peters:He says, leaving through... Classic Russell again. Classic Russell. Last week, Thursday,

2:03:19Kelly Reilly:the 22nd. We are reviewing this late. We are reviewing it late, yes. Deadlines. No, not deadlines. Embargoes. Embargoes. Those are the ones. Right. Okay, we've got one more show to go and not a lot of time to do it. So let's get into this. Finally this week, we have Under Saltmarsh on Sky and Now, which is Claire Oakley's miniseries about murder in the marshes. What more can I tell you that the stars have not already told you? Nothing, that's what. But Steph, look, Boydie is irredeemably compromised after being charmed by Ralph and Kelly, so it forced you to wade into Saltmarsh and tell us if this crime thriller measured up to your very high criminal standards.

2:03:52Rebecca Hall:Okay, well, I would just like to say I am a huge fan of Kelly Riley. I love her in Yellowstone. I mean, so I've come to this thinking, my God, I love this woman. Okay. And I loved this show. It is dark. It is enticing. Her character, the flame haired former detective, who's turned into, now she's working in a school and there is, she discovers as she's walking home, she's having a kind of illicit affair. I'm not, I don't think this is a spoiler. I don't think it's a spoiler. Tell me if it is, though. She's kind of having an illicit affair with someone in this small Welsh village. The people in the village are threatened with having to leave their home because there's going to be a huge flood which displaces them all.

2:04:38Rebecca Hall:And she's walking home one night and she discovers the body of one of her students. In comes her old partner to investigate the murder and they have a complicated history because he was also involved investigating with her the disappearance of her niece, okay, which is an unresolved, unsolved crime. Okay, I love everything about this. There is not one thing I did not enjoy about it. Scenery, yes. Every single actor, stellar performance. I watched as many as we could, which was two. I was, at every turn, there was something intriguing. She's obviously drawn back in, she's drawn back into the world of investigating this crime.

2:05:29Rebecca Hall:Rafe's character's got a great backstory that is slowly becoming uncovered. Everybody's character is so well-drawn and so interesting. I have got literally nothing bad to say about this. No notes. I've got no notes. To me, this is perfect. Visually perfect. There's not even a dud character. Even the characters just have a couple of lines perfectly placed. it's brilliant I love it and I cannot wait to watch the rest of it

2:05:56Evan Peters:Rafe Spall gives great bellend he does he really does and he is he is a quite a big bellend in this show what is it he's a really interesting character he is because like I'm trying not to spoil it but he has past as well and that past is kind of is you know kind of a bit of a revelation and there's all stuff about sexuality and his history as you say professional history with Kelly Riley's character and he caused a stir in the same community kind of three years previously. So everyone hates him. Yes. Because everyone hates him and he's incredibly unwelcome and he kind of fights back by being a bellend.

2:06:36Evan Peters:Yeah. It's believable because it's like, well, he's being attacked from all sides and it makes sense that he's going to lash out. And I like the fact that it's kind of the Broadchurch formula, right, in a way. So you've got the male detective and the female detective who are never going to be, there's never going to be any relationship there, you know, in terms of a sexual relationship. That's made quite clear. But it feels grittier. Which I think is refreshing. What I was about to say. Sorry, apologies. It feels like it has got that formula, male and female, male detective, female detective, or I'll be in this case, ex, but she really is the detective figure, really, alongside him.

2:07:13Rebecca Hall:As she says, she has no option but to be involved.

2:07:15Evan Peters:Exactly, exactly. A rural setting, a tight-knit community where everyone has secrets and lies. in their closets. And a small boy has been killed. A small child has been killed. It's got a lot in common with Broadchurch, I think, in terms of premise. But it's got such a different tone. And I think where Broadchurch is an out-and-out, an incredibly pacey, kind of fast-moving, brilliantly done. The first series of Broadchurch is one of the best, I think, one of the best crime thrillers of our time. But this has a much slower, more deliberate pace. I think it's a slow burn. I think it gets more and more.

2:07:50Evan Peters:I've seen five episodes out of six. It unravels.

2:07:53Anthony Ramos:Yeah.

2:07:53Evan Peters:It's like... And also, the connections. There are more connections and complications as it goes on. It's actually really well plotted. It's quite complicated because you've got different families, different interrelations going on across the families. You've got lots of people with histories that they're hiding. And there's sexual relationships that are going on as well at the same time, whilst the investigation of the missing girl and the dead boy are taking place. so it's so I really liked it as well and I think I think what makes it so different from broad-shedged is even though it's got so much in common it is that dark brooding quality to it that is partly visual because you've got this very very very eye-catching locale where it's shot it's actually a fictional little small town or village or whatever you want to call it but a lot of it was filmed in rural bits of North Wales right on the coast and it really and it's kind of like also a disaster movie because you've got this impending storm like they're calling it the storm of the century or whatever, going on in the background where as time goes on, the guy played by Dino Fetcher called Gareth who's like the young guy who's trying to persuade the locals to take seriously the fact that there's an environmental catastrophe about to happen and all their homes are about to be flooded if they don't evacuate.

2:09:05Evan Peters:And they're all like, no, no, no, we don't need to evacuate, we've had this before. He's a really interesting character.

2:09:08Rebecca Hall:Yeah, he's kind of put in there as a slight relief.

2:09:13Evan Peters:I just thought it was really clever and interestingly complicated and you have to focus on it. It's definitely not, you know.

2:09:20Rebecca Hall:It's like an intricate web of secrets and lies. Yeah, it's very intricately done. It's a good word for it, yeah.

2:09:24Evan Peters:So I similarly, I was very impressed. And the two of them together are great. And Rafe, I mean, I, you know, he's just brilliant in everything. I got to ask him about smoke in the interview. Oh, did you? Yes. Well, we'll already have heard that on this podcast. There you go, yeah. So he's just brilliant at everything and he is really annoying. He often is, but I love it. When he gets angry in this, it's brilliant because he's kind of like suffering. All these people won't cooperate with him. they're like no no get he still keeps going but he kind of just takes it and then as the series goes on by episode 2 and 4 he's just like fuck you all just fucking do I say and get to grips with what's going on we've got to solve this crime and it's really satisfying when he explodes to them

2:10:03Rebecca Hall:so you've finished it oh haven't you

2:10:04Evan Peters:I haven't seen the sixth and final episode I've seen up to episode 5 this all drops at once doesn't it I believe it does drop at once yes

2:10:11Kelly Reilly:so you get to binge it all

2:10:13Rebecca Hall:James please please tell me

2:10:15Kelly Reilly:oh it's wonderful oh great I loved it. Again, but just the elegance. Is elegant even the right way? It kind of is. It is. The screenwriting is so on point. And just because, like, and I was, the economy of how they get you to care that it's this particular boy that's been killed. Yes. It's done very quickly, so economically, so precisely, and so deftly very early on. I thought that was my favorite scene in the whole thing. Not because it was showy, but I thought it did so much narratively with such a small amount of plot but it was just perfectly, perfectly rendered. By the way, sorry just to say,

2:10:52Evan Peters:it's actually only a weekly episode.

2:10:53Kelly Reilly:It is weekly.

2:10:54Evan Peters:It's not all at once. It's not all at once.

2:10:55Kelly Reilly:Oh, I'm glad. Why did I think it was all at once?

2:10:57Evan Peters:I think most things are on top of this. Sky Atlantic. I think they want it to be a weekly treat for people to... Well, that's definitely for the best, I would say, with a show like this.

2:11:07Kelly Reilly:Because, yeah, it's brilliantly done. The mystery is compelling. I think Rafe Swald is a fantastic foil to Kelly Riley in this because he's such a penis. You just hate him so much. But not because he's like a caricature guy, because he's a bit brusque. He's a bit of a jobsworth. He's a bit of a bellum. But he's actually a fairly, you know, he's fairly rigorous in the first episode, at least, in his policing. So he's not like he's incompetent. But he is, like, he comes there. Nobody wants him to be there. He has, as you said, this past. And he's just like, for fuck's sake, why are you even on this case?

2:11:38Kelly Reilly:Like, it's ridiculous. And he's incredibly abrasive with her as well. And part of it is you want to know the mystery, but you also want to unpick their relationship. Like, why? Because you allude to a lot of the reasons why they don't get a lot. Why? What did you do? And there's another case that it all relates to. So all of that is fascinating.

2:11:56Rebecca Hall:I mean, that's the thing that's great. Everything in this is a mystery. Everyone's relationship is a mystery that is unravelling sort of before your eyes. And at some point, I'm hoping, obviously by the end, this is all going to come together, but it just keeps you going, doesn't it? You're like, oh my God.

2:12:10Kelly Reilly:Oh, no. Harry Lorty in the chip shop. Jonathan Price in the sheet. What is happening?

2:12:15Evan Peters:Jonathan Price doing Welsh, very interestingly. Yeah, Harry Lorty, obviously the legend from industry, doing it in a very, you know, not particularly big supporting role, but a key role. But that's what I'm saying. Every role seems key.

2:12:28Rebecca Hall:No, definitely.

2:12:29Kelly Reilly:Right, we've only got four minutes left before we're going to get kicked out of the studio. Okay. So, this lands weekly, not all at once, Boydie.

2:12:35Evan Peters:Friday, the 30th of January, 2026, on Sky Atlantic slash now. Excellent. What else is out this week, Bonnie? The new season is shrinking. Kay's favourite. Kay is obsessed with the show. She is. And the new season starts on Apple TV on Wednesday, the 28th of January. There's a new season of Death in Paradise, your favourite.

2:12:52Rebecca Hall:Oh, I like Death in Paradise, strangely.

2:12:54Evan Peters:BBC One Friday the 30th at nine o 'clock. What else is there? Bridgerton. Bridgerton, no less.

2:13:01Rebecca Hall:Oh my God.

2:13:02Evan Peters:The brand new series, split in two, as Netflix likes to do, split into two or three these days, but only split in two. But the first batch of episodes of the new season starts on Thursday, the 29th, on your Netflix. Then there is, there's a Take That documentary, if that's your bag, James, on Tuesday, on the Netflix. I think it's a three-parter. Well, I am into my musical documentaries now, so. Yeah, there you go. And there's a show called Devil in Disguise about John Wayne Gacy's serial killer season. Have you seen this one?

2:13:31Rebecca Hall:Yes. This is on ITV1,

2:13:33Evan Peters:on Friday at nine o 'clock, which is quite an unusual bit of scheduling for a serial killer drama.

2:13:39Rebecca Hall:Terrifying character. John Wayne Gacy, if you don't know, was the kid's clown and he used to get dressed up as a clown and he kept all the boys under his house.

2:13:48Evan Peters:Oh, good God, don't tell me things like that. Yeah, hideous. Sorry. Hideous. And by the way, I was on Channel 5 on Saturday talking about Claudia Winkerman in a Talking Heads documentary. Right. Thank you, boy, for plugging that.

2:13:59Kelly Reilly:We should also mention The Nevers. Remember Joss Whedon's show The Nevers? Yeah. Which there was one point where they didn't show the final few episodes and then it aired on that random channel where it was in real time where you'd catch it like every eight hours you'd be able to watch them but you couldn't stream it. Anyway, they're all dropping on ITVX on Sunday the 1st of February. True. Should you feel the need. Right, what is our pick of the week? Let's start with you, Boydie.

2:14:22Evan Peters:Oh God, I like them all. This has been a really good tricky one.

2:14:26Rebecca Hall:It's a stellar week.

2:14:27Evan Peters:I think I'll go for Undersault Marsh though in the end.

2:14:29Rebecca Hall:I obviously am going to go

2:14:30Kelly Reilly:for Undersault Marsh. Do you know what? That is also my pick of these three as well would be Undersault Marsh. Unanimity. Yeah, Unanimity. Undersault Marsh then. And that is our show of the week. And that's it for this week's Ebony of the Podcast. Please do leave us a five-star rating. We don't get a lot of reviews these days. I can only assume what we do, but not all of them are positive. It's people who get irate about certain things. Oh, I read some. Please don't be annoyed about one single thing and then give us a one-star rating. You know, talk to us. Send us a message for the postbag. That seems like a much more mature way of dealing with it.

2:14:57Kelly Reilly:Give us time to correct ourselves. Yes, exactly. Give us a chance. That's right. That's a bold move. Please leave us a five-star rating. Not a one-star rating, a five-star rating. and, you know, follow us on the social medias as well. That would be good. We'll be back in your ears on Pilot Plus and we'll be doing Possibly Shrinking. We haven't really discussed it, but we'll come up with something. And on next week's show, on next week's podcast, we are going to be dealing with some shows. I don't know what, because there's actually not a lot on next week, but we'll figure it out.

2:15:23Evan Peters:Okay. Yeah, it'll be great. Well, no, do you know what? Next week is a terrible week. It is. It's one of the worst weeks. No, it is. Don't say at the end it's just a terrible week.

2:15:32Rebecca Hall:No, we'll find some good stuff.

2:15:34Kelly Reilly:But this podcast will be as good as ever. yes even though the week is bad for telly we will find amazing things to talk about do you know what if there's nothing else good to review maybe we'll end up doing his and hers or something like that just for the lols who knows

2:15:47Evan Peters:there's a new series of the Lincoln Lawyer

2:15:49Kelly Reilly:there is that's literally the only thing yeah it's one of the only things so please tune in next week for the essential episode of the Pilot TV podcast covering that week's TV until then Pilot out

2:16:06I'll see you next time.