Youth, The Blame, and The Split Up. With guests Sharon Horgan, Pierce Brosnan and Helen Mirren

30:24But also like I went to Frankfurt, you know, I saw all those agents like letting their hair down with their tote bags, you know, like a Berlin sex club. And they've just been doing these meetings every 20 minutes. I mean, it's an insane dichotomy of a world. But we had a lot of, you know, consultants coming in to talk to us and stuff. So, you know, I felt like I knew the world. But, like, the more I got into it, the more I was like, oh, this is, like, this is fun. And the authors, like, you've got Damien Lewis kind of playing himself, right, at the beginning with a brilliant idea for a book, which I won't spoil.

31:07And then to have, you know, Harriet Walton, Anne Reid, who I would think is 91, right? I think she's 92. But if I've aged her by the year, I feel terrible. but she is I mean she's so extraordinary and Harriet is beyond I've worked with her a few times Anne still is so involved in it she gave me so many notes on what she thought the character would be she could come up with new jokes honestly it was it was a riot working with her so when you write those characters did you have I mean it feels who else could it have been apart from those she's the only person I went to or thought of and the same with Harriet if they turned it down I would have been a bit screwed so I really went after them you know I really like pitched it and it's hard because when you go to actors first you've only written one or two scripts and so you're kind of you they've got to take a bit of a leap of faith and when it's actors like that you've got to you know they don't want to waste their time you know they want to make sure there's something they can get their teeth into so so yeah I'm so pleased that I convince them.

32:14It's very interesting you've got the character of your teenage son and I like there's a kind of there's a very light touch comment on the manosphere because he's constantly looking at stuff disturbing stuff and being clearly influenced by it. Was that something you wanted? I don't know why I'm laughing. No it's terrible. Because we were just talking about it earlier I had asked we'd set up this WhatsApp group so Aaron actual Aaron could send me what he and his mates were watching because if it was me choosing it it would have been completely different but yeah it's incredibly disturbing. It really is, yeah.

32:45And are you, I say it's not heavy handed at all, but are you saying, are you worried about, you know, men of that age and the stuff that they get fed? Oh my God, constantly. I mean, obviously I'm a mum of two daughters, so what's going on with them and what they are fed, which is an entirely different thing, you know, equally awful in a different way, but I feel like there's so much confusing content out there for boys. And, you know, things have changed and they've had to have a different perspective on, you know, how they conduct themselves out there in the world and how they are with girls and consent and all sorts of really positive things.

33:25But they've been left in a place where they're kind of open to terrible people trying to fill a gap and tell them, you know, if you're feeling a bit lost, fill it with this. And I think it's absolutely terrifying. Absolutely, yeah. When you write scenes, for example, with there's a sex scene with Tim McInerney which is fabulous when you write that and then you come to film it do you slightly regret that you've written for yourself yeah you have to then act it out 100 % I regret regret that I don't I don't when I'm in the edit and I'm laughing at it um I I'm so I'm so pleased that but but you know but that's a good thing Rob and I used to have that all the time like where we would write these sex scenes and not even think about doing them with each other.

34:08We were just writing these funny characters like ha ha ha and then like we're on the day going oh my god and that's how it was constantly on youth. Even the not terrible sex scenes it's uncomfortable but I really like that you see a woman in her 50s getting out there still making terrible mistakes but you know falling in love and being open to life and what it throws at her so it kind of this is just a big part of it I think so I had to did you have to kind of apologise to him because basically here's the butt of a lot of jokes about his age it was so bad it was so bad because he's you know he was so game and so into it but I I was so embarrassed saying some of it especially the things she says when he's not there but when we would before we'd begin a scene we would all read it through let's all just read it through together and like I can't bring myself to sex with it yeah and it's yeah I felt awful but he was super super game well it's all worth it in the end fantastic congratulations I love it it's brilliant thank you Sharon cheers thanks thank you that was Sharon Horgan it's time now I suspect you segue straight into the news and Boyd is about to bore our absolute socks off with an elongated list of people who won Emmys this week I forgot it was that we were going to do Emmys this is so exciting can we begin with the Taylor Swift Mariska Harkatay Law & Order SVU skit which was of course the highlight of the Emmys I think we can all agree it was incredible especially because it did have her cat Olivia Benson in it as well which is very exciting and Marisha Harkatay has got absolutely fantastic comic timing I mean obviously she presented the Emmys the primetime Emmys as well and she's wonderful but yeah that was really good which was a bold brave choice because she's not known you know particularly for her comedic performance acting but she was really funny she was really good she was really funny yeah okay now I was going to focus on the fact that the two biggest winners, if you discount the Apple Music Super Bowl halftime show starring Bad Bunny...

36:14Which you really shouldn't, but if you are going to... The two scripted, shall we say, biggest scripted winners of the Emmys are both shows that demanded a reverse ferret from us. And one of them's got the full reverse ferret, Widows Bay, which is the most, the winningest of the... Sorry, let's just be completely accurate, okay? demanded a full reverse, because it's just for the listeners, a full reverse ferret from you two. From you two. Right, fine. So carry on. Steph was the lone champion of Widow's Bay. Can you imagine how embarrassing it would have been if we hadn't have even done the reverse ferret and we sat here now with you basking in the glory of its, if it's, count them, 14 wins.

36:5714 wins. That's twice as many as the next nearest winningest show. We'll get to it in a second. It would have been hugely embarrassing for both James and me if we'd have basically routinely said this show was bad and it ends up being 14. My only regret is at the time I didn't say, do you know what, when this wins 14 Emmys, get back to me. That is my only regret. It's also won the most of any comedy ever in Emmy history. And Matthew Rhys won two Emmys. It's historic, Matthew Rhys. Which is historic as well. So do you know what the second most winning scripture show was? Is it not DTF? Yes. Yeah, DTF St.

37:36Louis, which is the other one that James hasn't yet reversed his ferret. I know. But I have, we both have. Has yet to reverse. I'm going to say that that wasn't so much a reverse ferret because I always liked it. I think we were all broadly positive, just not super enthused, were we not? No, no. No? No. I'll walk by the tapes if necessary. Oh, damn it. Right. No. Boyd had a lot of issues. I, and I've said this many times in here, I believed from the beginning it was good and also that it was deliberately paced Boyd said it was far too slow and that is where we ended and then Boyd was the first to go back to it and say it was brilliant I carried on where I'd left off and I just finished it as we know and it is incredible you I can't even talk about okay fair enough yeah anyway just to go through the most I'm going to limit myself to like 7 or 8 categories 6, 7, 8 but we all hailed the fact that The Pit won Best Draft Series.

38:34Beating some of our other favourites, The Diplomat, Paradise, Pluribus, Slow Horses. People say, I heard someone on the radio the other day saying the golden age of TV is over. It's over. Who said that? Literally who is saying that? Some idiot. I don't want to name them. That's ridiculous. Yeah, it's insane. Was it you, Steph? What? How dare you? When you see that list, you're like, what the fuck? And that's not even including A Night of the Seven Kings, which I know James is very fond of. I'm fond of, I'm very fond of. I think The Pit was always going to win that. I think it is a deserving winner, genuinely, even over the likes of Pluribus and stuff.

39:08I do think The Pit should have won Best Trouble. You've got your wish. Yeah, I did. Comedy, Best Comedy, Widow's Bay, beating The Bear Hacks, Margot's Got Money Troubles. Nobody wants this. The elusively named Nobody Wants This. Nobody does want this. Shrinking, your favourite. Shrinking. I love that whole category. Except for The Bear, which isn't a comedy. Okay, oh my god. Best limited or anthology series, DTF, St. Louis, beating all her fault, The Beast in Me, Beef, Love Story, etc. And the acting ones, Noah Wiley won for The Pit. Again, deservedly. Of course. Beating Gary Oldman. So Slow Horses, by the way, just to say, that got the most amount of nominations, but only won one, I think, all just for Direction, which is interesting, because it's facing off against so many brilliant shows.

39:54Ray Sehorne brilliantly won Actress for Pluridus. And I think this for me was the big thing. Because she was snubbed every single year for Better Course All. And it was shocking because her performance was outstanding. And I love the fact that she won for this. And I love even more that Apple paid for a billboard in LA which just says, congratulations, Carol. And I just thought that was so brilliantly done. I was like, yes. Yeah, that's fantastic. Then lead actor in the comedy series, Matthew Rhys. Of course. Record Breaker. beating Steve Carell, Jason Segel and shrinking your favourite Martin Short.

40:31Martin Short did a funny bit. Oh, the ripping up the thing. Yeah, he ripped up his speech. I mean, I feel so bad for Murders in the Building because they were nominated for everything and they never win anything. Because it's not very funny. You are not very funny. You are not very interesting. You are really stuck it. That's probably the reason. Like, if I had to single something out, I would say that's positive. Are we having another fight? I was really surprised by Tom Pelfrey's win. How dare you? The husband of Kaylee Cuoco. but not in a bad way I think he's fantastic in that I am glad he won he's great in task but I thought that he was I thought he was an outlier for that one yeah I know he was I think what I would say is there were three nominees in that category which was supporting actor Garen Howell I think was one that people thought would win right there were three from the pit so I think the pit might have cancelled each other out split the vote yeah split the vote Jack Loudon he beat Jack Loudon he knew James Bond but Tom Pelfrey is very very good Tom Pelfrey is brilliant and a deserved winner in that category agreed and husband of Katie Cuoco so you know just to say lead actress in the comedy Jean Smart who she always works for Hacks these days hers was really funny her speech did you hear it when she was like you're only giving it she's not even that good you're only giving it to me because I'm old it was brilliant speaking of which Sally Field have either of you watched that film the one about the whales or the octopuses or whatever it is some kind of sea life creature who dare you remarkably I've forgotten the name of it it's an octopus isn't it remarkably bright creatures it's magical it's about the octopodes it's about one octopus it's really wonderful you should watch it you'll cry and anyway the supporting actress in a drama series obviously you approved of this one James you know what it is?

42:05tell me Alison Janney yes I did know that for The Diplomat yes yes I did know that and supporting actress in a comedy series Stephen Root for Widows Bay yes good and I'll just do one more supporting actress in a comedy series Kate O 'Flynn for Widows Bay she is phenomenal she is absolutely oh Patricia I'm so happy for her she also did a great speech as well she's so good it was a really good by all accounts it's not shown here annoyingly the whole show but you can watch most of it on YouTube yeah you watch most of it because you watch the clips don't you everyone said this one of the best images for a long time can we talk about the fact though that and lots of people are mentioning this no Taylor Sheridan shows considering they're huge popularity none none none nominated at all no recognition for Taylor Sheridan because it's about quality rather than quantity James can you believe that there are no Taylor shows I mean, we talk about this a bit when we talk about the NTAs and it's voted for by the people.

43:01Is there not something to that that they are... Hang on. Are you equating Yellowstone with Mrs. Brown's boys? Is that what's happening here? I'm just saying that there is something there in that everybody watches... Not everybody, because Boyd doesn't, but they're hugely popular shows, right? And they've all got... And I had a report where someone was talking about the Oscar winners that are in these shows, the actors he gets, they're incredible. what is it why has he had this snub what's the story Boyd Hilton well I think it's similar to you could say not that many Ryan Murphy shows not that many get nominated but some of them do for good reason some of them do yeah some of them do yeah but I don't think his all of his shows are very good but I think when you yeah that's true that's absolutely true but I think when you're like a factory almost churning out loads and loads of spin-offs of your own shows Because I think back in the day, I think when it first started, Yellowstone, I'm slightly making this up, but I think it might have been nominated.

43:59But I think, right, you shouldn't, that's one of the problems, because I don't think they should look at it as the Sheridanverse, because you could take Lioness, you could take Mayor of Kings down. No, no, sure. But I'm just looking at the way things work in reality is you've got thousands of voters voting. By the way, as we're saying, it is such a brilliant time still for TV, for scripted TV. Yellowstone got one. One nomination in this entire round. for outstanding production design for a narrative contemporary program. Your number crunching this week is excellent, by the way. I'm glad we corrected ourselves, unlike other podcasts.

44:30Well, it's just throw out facts, which are just wrong constantly. Anyway, I just think it's, yeah, I think if you're an Emmy voter and there are all these brilliant one-off shows created by, not necessarily one-off, but, you know, shows created by outstandingly talented people, and then there's a whole factory of stuff being made over there, which is very popular and huge. Do you know what? It makes sense to me. I'm not saying it's right, but I'm saying I can understand why his shows are being snatched boys are complicit I think there I think within the Sheridanverse there should be breakout Emmy there's breakout Emmy-worthy shows I think the Madison is one of them Lioness yes I just think which I've watched and you haven't I think it's a shame but I think that Mirror of Kingsland which I've watched but you haven't right I see and I think it's a shame that those they're not seen individually for something like this because those actors like Jeremy Renner is absolutely incredible in Mare of Kingstown and I think his performance is an Emmy-worthy performance and it's a shame that they don't get recognised because of this whole idea which you've you know you said which is it's a factory it's a Sheridan factory but just on that category who would you take out who would you replace like Noah Wiley Sterling Kate Brown for Paradise Gary Oldman Mark Ruffalo for Tarsley who was brilliant Rufus Sewell for our favourite The Diplomat which would you get rid of to put in I would add him on I would get rid of The Muppet Show which won Variety Special and replaced it with, obviously, Taylor Swift, The Era's Tour, the final show.

45:53But other than that, that's a different matter. You can't get rid of The Muppet Show because it's incredible. And I would. And I speak as someone who has met Kermit and considers him, you know, a friend. Well, now you've just made it silly, frankly, because, yes, you're probably right. Anyway, finally. It's an interesting point, though, about Taylor Swift. Do you know what I mean? I think it's a shame. Because actually, even Ryan Murphy shows, which, as you say, often, even they get more nominations than... What would you say if Sheridan shows is the most Emmy-worthy show? I think people would say it's probably sort of...

46:24I've not seen Mayor of Kingstown. Which is Emmy-worthy. I've not seen the Madison. But, you know, Lioness is probably not a bad shout for some kind of recognition, I would say. Landman is probably another one. Yeah, yeah. I mean, come on, Billy Bob. Come on, Billy Bob. I mean, certainly technically, I think things like Lioness who should be, you know, best direction. Zoe Saldana is phenomenal in that. But to have an all-out snub, I think, is wrong. Yeah. As I always say with these things, people imagine it's like a big room where all the Emmy voters gather and they decide to snub shows. It doesn't really work like that.

47:00They're all just... That's how when Boyd votes for the Bastards, that's what happens then. Anyway, finally, the biggest winner in the non-scripted is, of course, the traitors. Remember, the traitors is huge, huge, huge. This is US traitors. Yeah, but this is Alan Cumming. This is Alan Cumming, yeah. And he's wonderful. It's huge in America as it's here. And that leads me on to another news story, which is the BBC have confirmed the start date of the Celebrity Traders, which is October the 1st. Thursday, October the 1st. And it will run for Thursday and Friday for five weeks. And it's going to be incredible.

47:31I cannot wait for Ramesh and Rob. I don't know how that's going to work. They must... How... They're so close, right? I just, like... Well, have you seen the clip they put out? No. They put out, like, an extended trailer. and there's a little bit where I think Rom says to Rob are you a traitor? And yeah, they have a little like tete-a-tete and you're like that's what we're here for. That's what we're waiting for. Yeah, it's going to be TV gold. It's going to be incredible. Remember James, Bella Ramsey's in this series. Yes, I look forward to hearing you talk about it on this podcast. How dare you?

48:01Bitter, bitter. Game of Thrones and The Last of Us Bella Ramsey and you're not even going to watch it for like five minutes. Outrageous. God. Just imagine Bella Ramsey fandom doesn't go outside. Yeah, you don't really like her. In fact, you're the thing of us whatever it's called The Last of Us The Last of Us Yes The Thing of Us The Thing of Us as the new series is going to be renamed I mean I thought you were a big super fan but Yeah but clearly not You said you'd watch it if Patrick Stewart was in it And is he? No Bella Ramsey is Well quite Not as far as we know there may be some surprises on the way Yeah he'll be one of the ones that they parachute in halfway through They don't really do that but yeah not in the show but yeah It'll be exciting It'll be very exciting But anyway and by the way loads of people still think it's on the 23rd of September because of the stupid fucking people mentioned it on the live podcast that Richard Osman does the rest is entertainment they had Marla was on Joe Marla who's in Celebrity do you know about you're looking at me like you don't know about Joe Marla was on as a guest on their live show they did it on the Festival Hall oh okay fine right right right sorry the live Festival Hall the rest is entertainment and Joe Marla kind of just randomly said oh yeah doesn't it start on September 23rd having no idea and Richard Osman goes oh yeah yeah and they're basically going we don't know and loads of people took that to be absolutely true and they were just completely making it up.

49:13They had no idea. That's just silly. So I had people in the office and people on the radio this morning saying, oh, does it start on September 23rd? No. It starts on October the 1st. Chris Angry, did you say, if you want the facts, you need to tune in to Pilot TV Podcast? Exactly, yeah. I mean, I am wanting to kill off people at the time to time, but I create myself when I do. Yeah, you do create. The thing is, that's what we know, we're like, we might get it wrong, but we will reverse on the ferret. Exactly. Slow Horses has been renewed for an eighth season, surprising precisely no one. That's news.

49:41I'm sure I said that last week, James. I don't think so. In a point where you weren't listening. No, I don't think so. Okay, fine. And now we're going to have listeners sending you voicemails, showing you evidence that you did in fact mention it last week, aren't we? That's what's going to happen. No, I don't think it did. I think it broke literally like yesterday as we record. Yeah, that's true. Officially was confirmed. Yeah. Diane Morgan is back. Kunk on cinema. Oh, my God. Yes, starring. Starring. Oh, I know. Helen O 'Hara. Starring. I didn't know that that was officially out there. What's out there?

50:10Oh, it is there. She's listed in the official press release. Helen O 'Hara is in Kunk on Cinema? Yeah, she's in Kunk on Cinema. She was interviewed by Philomena Kunk. Oh my God, as if she couldn't get any better Helen O 'Hara. Wow. Extraordinary scenes coming up. Is she in today? I need to talk to her about it. She is. Acosta? Yeah, I am going to. She could be a guest on the podcast. We could interview Helen for being on Kunk on Cinema. Wow, why didn't they ask you to be on Kunk on Cinema? That is a sore point. Oh, okay, sorry. It's unclear. it's not been explained to me or justified or apologised for well don't worry because when we do the boy documentary you'll feature heavily I will yeah I will but I read that I was thinking oh my god this is so good oh my god that's fantastic people like Jonathan Ross is on it and I think Mark Kermode and it's like okay so she's where she should be exactly oh my god I love it the other news is as we were talking to Sean Brooke she of course made famous by Sherlock it was announced that Sherlock writer Steve Thompson has created a new legal drama for ITV called In Contempt starring Jodie Whittaker and produced by Hartswood who made Sherlock.

51:15Oh, that's going to be fantastic. So that is going to be fantastic. It's a high-stakes legal drama starring Jodie Whittaker as a barrister whose top draw advocacy skills have earned a hotshot reputation in the world of media law. Oh, yes, please. Right up our street. Right adjacent to our... Because, I mean, the stuff that you turn out has to be legally checked every day. I literally send... What, because Steph's a liability? No, well, I send everything I write to legal and sometimes I get some hilarious, hilarious messages back from legal saying, like, what were you thinking? This could never be a headline and stuff like that.

51:46So, yeah, I will be interested in that. Yeah, fantastic. Okay, good, fine. Well, then let's have our remaining guests. And they are none other than the stars of Paramount Plus' Mobland, Pierce Brosnan and Helen Mirren. Now, they're back on our screens. They are effing and jeffing again as Irish crime family The Harrigans, which is back now on Paramount Plus as we said and Helen Mirren dropped more C-bombs I would say in this show in fact they do between them drop more C-bombs than I think anything else on television which is quite impressive and so to kind of test this we sent Amon Warman down to see if Helen Mirren would call him a massive C-unit to his face let's see what happened Welcome to the Pirate TV podcast Piers Boston Helen Mirren how are you both?

52:27We're okay We're very good thank you So we're in a podcast are we now? You're on a podcast right now? No Yeah, and we're here to talk about Mobland season two. As you say, I've seen the first four episodes, having a really, really great time with it. So first and foremost, congratulations. This is season two now, so there's more familiarity that you guys have with your characters. Can you compare day one on season one of Mobland to day one on season two of Mobland? Oh, good question. Very good question. Very different. I remember day one on season one distinctly because it was Guy Ritchie and all his troops and he has his own kind of, you know, gang of filmmakers.

53:06And I'm with Tom, Tom Hardy, who I greatly admire and respect, but we've never met each other and we're doing a scene together. And it was hold on to your hat, hold on to your horses. So I... And you decided, we both decided to do London accents. Well, yes. We had a little discussion about it, not much, you know, but we sort of thought, okay, let's do London. and then on the first day I was doing London South London I was doing some kind of London accent and guy said to me no go Irish I went go Irish okay he said good and this was before we turned over no he said go Irish go mad I don't remember my first day all I remember is I was terrified because I was so nervous about Guy because he's so kind of butch.

54:01Bob the Builder. Bob the Builder, exactly. He's so sort of that whole sort of male world and I'm very insecure in that world and nervous. I was incredibly nervous. And also I got the sight sense that he was as frightened of me as I was of him. I think he was. Do you know what I mean? I think he was, yes. I was going, no, I'm ordinary, you're amazing. Oh dear. So it was all a bit... Funny what goes through our heads. Funny what goes through our heads. Oh, my God, fraught with insecurities. Yeah, exactly. Just fragile souls. But fast forward, first day of second series, we are now in the swim of it.

54:43We are just like, oh, I can do this. And Guy's there, and I love Guy, and I feel totally comfortable with him. And I've even been into his caravan. Oh, that's right. You know? Yes. and sat in front of the stove and everything. That's it. And you're there, and we're going to the dog track, and it was so fun. Oh, yes, that was rip-roaring fun. A similar thing for you then, Pierce, in day one and season two, and you're talking about the accents. Did you have to warm up to the Irish accent, or were you banging straight in? Well, there's this fellow that I listen to, and I always go back to him, and, you know, I...

55:23He's a politician. He's an Irish politician. And I picked him on the day, thanks to a good friend of mine who's a dialect coach, because I said to him on the day, I said, listen, I need an Irish accent. And I need a Kerry accent. And my old man was from Kerry. I never knew him, but he was from Kerry. And so this dialect coach said, here you go, pick this guy. And I did. It's a very extreme country accent. It's an extreme country accent. It's great. It's completely wild. Yeah. Even Hardy turned to me and he said, what's that accent? Really good.

56:01I know, shut up, don't worry, keep going. Well, that speaks to what I think is really cool about the show and that it feels like you guys have got the license to go big. Yes. Which is really, really cool. Are you ever surprised about what you're doing, what's coming out of your mouth when you're in the moment doing these things? um no sometimes i'm surprised by what's on the page and we got our scripts very late we were often um like two weeks before we were due to start shooting on the next episode this we'd be getting the scripts so you couldn't and i love that you didn't have time to prepare or really think about anything you just had to jump in and some scenes i looked at and i went oh dear i don't if I could do that especially scenes with Anson you know I'm like oh I don't know if I can do that I'll have to find a way around that somehow or other yeah um of course I was so lucky in having Anson as my partner in those scenes but um yeah sometimes you go oh I could see it because I didn't have enough time to write down all of my favorite bits of dialogue but Maeve has some zingers There's one, this sausage tastes like an old tramp's cock.

57:14Yes, I know. That was on the page. Exactly. That was fantastic. I was in the cafe with Anson. Oh, that's right. Yes. But you mentioned Anson. We get to see more of Comrade and Eddie in this season. Right. What did you enjoy about playing those scenes with Anson? With Anson? I love Anson. I mean, he does it so well. He's so sharp. And he's so not like Eddie as a person. He's so lovely and charming and just kind of delightfully Anson. Well, there's a few scenes that you haven't seen yet and they're kind of touching. They have a centre to them which is different. My scenes with Anson are not touching at all.

58:05They're not touching. No, no, no. They're wicked. They're terrifying. Oh my God. On the waterbed. Yes, on the waterbed. And also Conrad and Maeve, they are a unique duo, we should say. When you're playing these characters, is there something different that you're bringing out of each other? And is there something different that the characters are bringing out of each other when they're having their scenes together? Yes, absolutely. I mean, I think neither neither Pierce nor I are anything like Conrad and Maeve we are the opposite really as people but when we're together on the set it's just like what is it it's like getting into a warm bath or something when you're cold it's just like so easy it is and we just slip into it and we inspire each other and I look and Helen directs she likes to do it no you don't direct direct.

59:03No, you don't direct. No, you don't. But you have great ideas. I have the odd idea. To be taken or not taken. You know, we'll see. I always take them because they're really good ideas. I don't know. There is a strange alchemy to it, really, playing these characters. Again, you know, it goes back to the page and Jez Butterworth and these characters and as we've gone further and further down the path with these characters, he really just embroidered and embellish them so well. Yeah. So much of this show, especially for the Harrigans, is about reputation. Reputation is everything. And I feel like for actors, you're also trying to build your own positive reputation so that you get more opportunities in the future.

59:53Was there a time where you realised that you had enough of a reputation, that opportunities were coming your way without you necessarily having to audition or anything like that? and what did that make you feel like? Yes, absolutely. I mean, that happens quite early in your life, actually, doesn't it? I mean, sometimes there are parts that maybe you've heard about and you really would love to play, and they know you're out there, but they're not asking you to do it. So you, I mean, I've never actually done this in reality. I've been always a bit too sort of proud or snooty to do that. But, you know, you get your agent say, please think of him or her.

1:00:35But I haven't auditioned for many, many, many, many, many years. For many years. I have not auditioned. No, I've been very lucky, very blessed. I've been very gifted with... Probably from Remington Steel onwards, you never auditioned again, did you? I can't even remember the last time I auditioned. Is there anything you missed? I was never very good at auditioning. No, me neither. I hated them. I resented them. I didn't like it. I couldn't wrap my head around them. The last time I auditioned was actually for my husband. Oh. Except it's called a meeting, not an audition. See, there you go. Joe Sargent was a wonderful director who directed me years ago.

1:01:18And he said, just remember, you'll always have to test for someone. You'll always have to audition because you have the meeting. Yes. They want to have the meeting. Yes. And as good as you are, there's always someone who says, well, maybe he, she is, maybe not. Let's meet. Let's talk. Well, that's right, because they're creating this thing. So my husband was late. This was before he was my husband. I'd never met him before. I didn't think I'd met him before, but I actually had. But anyway, that's a whole other story. But anyway, he and Mikhail Baryshnikov, it was for a film called White Nights.

1:01:54And I was an English theatre actress in Los Angeles, sort of doing the rounds. And I'd already done a film in America playing a Russian, and this was playing another Russian. So they asked me to meet. And I go to the office, and they're not there. He's not there. and I wait five, ten minutes, 15 minutes. I said, I think, right, 20 minutes, I'm out of here. So 20 minutes comes, I stand up and say, I'm leaving, I'm not going to wait any longer. And as I walk out the door, Taylor walks in the other way and says, where are you going? I said, I'm leaving, you're late. And he said, no, no, please don't leave.

1:02:39I said, well, you know. So I walk in very angry, very snotty, and sort of say, so what do you want to do? Do you want to read? Do you want to read? All right, let's read. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All right, all right, I'm off. So I was really cross. Yes, yes. And I get the role, and I marry the man. That's so good. Oh, my God. That's amazing. That's an amazing story. Yeah. One role that I'm sure you didn't have to audition for is your role in the Fast and Furious movies. I didn't have to audition for it, but I begged for it. I love that. Did you do it? Oh, I did. Oh, really? I did.

1:03:17I met Vin. Vin was at a party I was at in LA. And I went over to him, and I'd never met him before, and I said, you don't know me, you don't, but my name's Helen Mirren, and I'd love to be in Fast and Furious. Could you possibly find it? Little tiny, I don't mind what I do. Just like an extra in the background, I just so love to do it. and he very sweetly went off and found a little role for me which is brilliant. Is that how that happened? I did wonder. Yeah. Do you have an update on what's happening with the next Fastabene? No, I don't know what's happening. I think, no, I don't. Maybe we can get a Wolf of Pierce.

1:03:53Yes. Oh, there you go. I've never seen them. I've never seen them. I'm sure I know of them. Yes, yes. I've seen the trailers. There's a certain type of wonderful film. No, I admire them. Yes. I'd love to see that. Helen, Piers, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was Helen Mirren and Piers Brosnan. Time now for this week's reviews. First up, we begin with Youth on HBO Max. And this is written by and starring Sharon Horgan, as you've already heard, of course. This is her character, Alex, dealing with an empty nest, romantic travails, and the trauma of middle age as well.

1:04:29Steph, please tell us all about what Horgan has described as the unspoken middle ground of female midlife liberation and romantic anxiety. Oh, God, well, I mean, I couldn't put it any better than that. Yeah, so, oh, God. Imagine you're 50 plus, you're a divorcee, you've got an adult child and they're going off to university and you're just getting a bit older. And that is Sharon Horgan's character in youth. Now, I'm going to go straight in and say, I'm 45, right? and there was something about this show where in the first few minutes she gets her jaw locked and then finds out that it's due to arthritis which I was like, oh my God.

1:05:19It felt like I was just seeing what was going to happen to me in the next few years. Do you know what I mean? So I'm going to be honest, some of that did take away a bit of the enjoyment because it felt a bit like a documentary for the future for me. so I'd be like oh god and it there was just it was just like god this is fucking depressing yeah you just have to go to the doctors and they say oh you've got arthritis and she has to get her jaw and you know she's trying to navigate an idiot ex-husband who's actually going to go and work on some sort of space drama in Canada a spaceship drama a spaceship drama which yeah all of the you know there's some fab it's look it's Sharon Horgan with Sharon Horgan notes of brilliance everywhere I probably didn't find it as enjoyable as I want to find it because the reality of it was so stark because I am a woman of a certain age so I was like oh god like there's an excruciating scene where she goes on a date and the man that turns up is slightly older and it's just Tim McInerney Tim McInerney yes he's quite a lot older he's a lot older and I thought do you know I was watching I was thinking my god James is going to hate this whole thing because it's so even I was like this is so cringy I can't actually cope and there's something about cringiness that is almost your reality, not that I'm going and meeting people and that kind of stuff, but do you know what I mean?

1:06:37And I'm not divorced, but it's just, she's almost too brilliant at getting things so right and there's so much realism to it that it makes you feel a bit sick and you know, you're just like, oh God, this is why, how can she know? Well, this is all so true. This is exactly how I feel. And there's a bit where she breaks down and you're like, yes, how fun. And she obviously is upset about her son leaving for university. and then you get Rupert Friend coming in as a former love interest and I was so confused because he's got a Scottish accent in this he does, yeah so he's got a Scottish accent and I was like, in all these years?

1:07:15is he Scottish and I didn't know and then I went to look at proper interviews with him and I was like, no, he's definitely not why did I even think that? of course he's not but his Scottish accent is very good and he kind of comes in as the you know, the guy that she, like this sexy guy. And again, he's the one, like he's a bit of a dick, but like she, you know, they have a good time together. So on the whole, this is Sharon Horgan being absolutely brilliant at everything. But for me, in terms of levels of enjoyment, and this is absolutely just a personal thing, I was like, I don't know how much I can watch of my, you know, the next five years of my life in my face.

1:07:51I don't know whether I can watch it because it was just, yeah, like I said, it was my life, which is testament to how brilliant and lately drawn it is and how amazing she is at capturing what it is to be a woman of a certain age. I think the Rupert Friend element, though, that's fun, right? It's all fun. It's brilliant. But that's not cringe, that particular element of it. I think it's not just cringe. There's an element of just, there's a heavy element of pathos all the way through this, but also there's a discomfiture to this series. Isn't there? Yeah. where you just feel quite awkward in your own skin watching it.

1:08:28Well, imagine if you're a 45-year-old female, then imagine how awkward I would felt. I was like, oh, fuck me. So I weirdly think it's quite hard sometimes to enjoy, as in you can appreciate it, but I didn't really enjoy watching it because it's more bittersweet than properly funny. It's more tragic than it is kind of humorous, and it paints a really kind of upsetting picture at times. you should say her son in this who's played by Aaron Murphy who's Cillian Murphy's son oh yes exactly you can really see the resemblance he's really good he's good and there is I mean there's some properly awkward moments yeah there really is by the way he's also the son of Sienna Miller in War what is he just a professional son at the moment and similarly a lot in that he is perfected in two roles that coming out within two weeks of each other the being the young teenage son who is a lot yes he is I mean, he's a bit of a shit, but not in an unbelievable way, just in a kind of sullen, self-centred, feckless layabout kind of like, yeah.

1:09:33But do you know what? This series, more than anything else, watching this just made me sad. You know, and it's like the elderly parents. It's just that, I don't know, it's just my life. It's like, you know, the parents are getting older and they need more of your help, which obviously I'm very, very happy to do and I adore my mother. But, you know, it is that kind of stuff. like my mum is the kind of mum there's a scene where they're in a restaurant and the mum goes they're ordering like the stuff she's like I'm going to have the crumble and I thought that's so brilliant because that isn't my mum that's hilarious though I'm not saying it's not as brilliant it's really well observed so I loved that making you sad I'm sad that it's making you sad and you can't barely even watch it because you think but despite the fact that she's shagging the perfectly handsome and charismatic and funny Rupert Friend what I'm saying is it's brilliance is in that it's so well observed you know but that doesn't take away from like sometimes it is difficult to watch things that actually happen in your own life that's all I'm saying it's like I have a mother who would order crumble you haven't gone to the extreme of turning into some kind of fucking tragedy that James has when it's actually one of the funniest it's one of the flat out the opening episodes right where she has to establish the group of characters the parents the son the ex-husband the twatish ex-husband filming the spaceship drama and there she goes it's just a space drama not a spaceship drama which is just brilliant brilliant delineation it is fucking genius I'm sorry and I deeply resent the idea that it's not funny and it's more tragic than funny that is insane I know what he's saying I'm not going to go here I'm not going to go here anyway she's agreeing with me no but I know what James is saying because it's not more tragic than funny though I don't think it is more tragic than funny but there is an element and I don't want to have to use the fact that I'm a woman again I don't remember when I used that last time oh yeah when we did that Hannah Waddingham this is like on a different planet to Hannah Waddingham but I do there is there is James is there is some element to it where it's just like it is a little bit depressing but in a humorous way I'm not saying it's not I'm not saying it's not funny my take is that it would be depressing if it was the fact that it's brilliantly funny and funny things are happening all the way through and I've watched the whole thing in preparation for my interview and it gets it gets better no no no just better sorry It's brilliant from the start and it just keeps it up.

1:11:52And it keeps it up. And it keeps up being funny. I think Lloyd likes this one, James. In the very first scene, when she has the jaw, the jaw is hilarious. Is it? Yes. And then she has to catch the bus and the bus driver flings her to the end of the bus. There's brilliant slapstick. There's brilliant depictions of romantic liaisons. The burger, where she drops the burger on the bus and she looks around because that's something I would do and then someone's judging her. Is it just creating funny or again, is that just deeply tragic? No, it's really funny. In the fact, it's brilliantly funny. And, you know, it's like saying some of the greatest films of all time, the comedies, I'm going to mention Woody Allen in a minute.

1:12:28Is it like saying that? It's exactly like saying that, because comedy is based on discomfort and people feel... Well, it's different types of humour, isn't it? Yeah, there's a lot of humour of discomfiture in this, which isn't necessarily my sense of humour. He's using his really high voice, James, okay? So we just need to cut it away. That is true. I mean, I'm reeling. No, but you don't need to reel. You're reeling unnecessarily. but I'm saying comedy is super subjective though isn't it like it is like what you find and you know I struggle with comedy at the best of times so I didn't find it super funny and tonally I found it kind of just a bit sort of sad and a little bit sort of like bit sweet that was more my takeaway All I'm saying is as a woman approaching that exactly where those kinds of things do happen and you realise you're just old and you're like you stand at one point and you're like oh my hip doesn't move this way and you faint in toilets and that kind of thing right I'm saying in that way it's like oh fuck this is so what I'm saying is it's almost so brilliant and so realistic and so well drawn you're like that is what makes it a bit depressing that genuinely might be the best review I've ever it's so brilliant that I didn't really like it but it's just because it's so good I just couldn't handle it I mean she's so brilliant that yeah she is but I think she's created a comedy by the way this is like the third for her in the trilogy song with Pulling which was the genius first show and Catastrophe and Catastrophe and she's created which I love by the way I think she's created this amazing yeah and which is full of extraordinary, difficult, painful moments in catastrophe.

1:13:52But anyway, I think she's created this comedy persona of herself, like Woody Allen, which is all I can compare it to, where she's intrinsically funny no matter what she's dealing with or doing, I think. So that, as I say, my theory is, I think loads of women will watch it and think, this is just so funny. It draws the humour out of tragic situations. But it doesn't make it, I don't think it is difficult to watch because it's so funny. That's my theory. I think it is for James we all know he's living in his own world I'm just saying I think I've only watched one episode but I'm just saying I do think there's something to being confronted with your own reality and going oh god that's going to happen to me I'm not saying it's not enjoyable but that was my only point in this show I'm the Tim McEnany 67 year old you know I'm a balding you know sad sweetheart sad twat so you know you are not you are wonderful and brilliant and you are definitely not him and that sex scene is that is super cringe that is unbelievable oh of course it's cringe yeah that's the whole yeah absolutely which as you know is not my bad no no no listen I absolutely expected you I mean apart from saying it's completely sad and tragic I think it was going too far that's when I went high pitch but yeah of course I wouldn't expect you to like it at all but it's interesting your reaction is interesting as well but I just think it's in that I think it absolutely works as a third in that trilogy of brilliant it is equally well observed and it is very well written and all of those things it didn't hit my funny button we haven't even mentioned by the way sorry in this ranting he's absolutely furious with me and like I'm just going to say one more time but I didn't I think it's really really good she thinks it's so good that she didn't like it I'm not even beginning to be angry or furious with you that's insane you know I don't I don't want you to be upset with me in any way ever but we haven't mentioned that she works in publishing she's a book agent and those scenes are honestly as someone who has knows people and works with people within book publishing.

1:15:44It is insanely accurate. And it comes to the fore in episode two quite early on as well. Yes, it does. And you meet the authors. You meet some of the authors. And that stuff is hilarious. Anne Reid as like a 90-something kind of like a Gilly Cooper-esque. Oh yeah, I did watch the first of the episodes. Gilly Cooper-esque author and her daughter, looking after her. Harriet Walter is fucking genius. And then you meet a lot down the way you meet other writers that she works with and those scenes are just hilarious as well. So the whole milieu is intrinsically fun. I did enjoy those scenes a lot. Thank you.

1:16:16And just to be clear, I'm just noting out that sometimes it's difficult to be confronted with your reality in a comedy series that you're watching in your house. And that's all I'm saying. Steph felt too seen. I understand what you're saying. I felt too seen. I just don't think, I've never felt that ever about anything I've ever seen in my life. So it's just a different way. Really? Yeah, I can watch anything no matter how painfully close. And that is why we're making this documentary about you. So you can be confronted with your own reality. Boyd, this is your life. Thank you. that was a great show by the way This Is Your Life wasn't it why did that stop well Eamon Andrews is dead so they brought it back they did revive it but I just think it didn't was it Michael Parkinson who did it afterwards I think it might be Michael Parkinson it's possible we've gone off track anyway anyway anyway let's close the big red book on this one Youth Then which is on HBO Max when it's just started it started on Saturday or Sunday and it's it's streaming now on Saturday and or Sunday on HBO and or another channel.

1:17:15So let's go. 20th of September. 20th of September. Which is Saturday. Check's calendar. Sunday, which is well known to be Sunday. The point is it's already on. The point is it's already on, yes. It was on yesterday. Make up your own decision and let us know what you think. Next up, we have The Blame on ITV and I think we can all agree the person to blame at the moment is Steph. But this is based on Charlotte Langley's crime novel which sees Michelle Keegan and Douglas Booth as a pair of detectives investigating not only the murder of a teenage girl, but also the culture of institutionalised misogyny within their police department.

1:17:51And here to tell us more about the female experience and the corrosive effects of toxic men on women is Boyd Hilton. Very good. I can never be angry when you get that kind of level of introduction. No, you can't. I just want you to know that I'm never, ever angry with you ever and I love you always. I'm never angry with you, I understand. We had this conversation, didn't we, that you and I have never had an argument. No, exactly. I think we just had one. No, we didn't. Oh, it sounded like one to me. No, you, why do you rebel? Yeah, that was proper discord. I just think that you thought the things that he was saying were coming out of my mouth and they were actually coming out of his mouth.

1:18:25Yeah, that's maybe. He's the one. Oh, great. Turn it all on me, whatever. Anyway, this is a really interesting, because you might be forgiven for thinking if you just watch the trailers or, you know, the fact that this is a Sunday, nine o 'clock ITV drama, that's just a kind of routine police detective thriller kind of thing with Michelle Keegan, who is a massive star, and obviously appeared in the Harlan Coburn show, which was, I think, the biggest Harlan Coburn show on Netflix she was in. And it's, but it's much more to it than that. Because, so, on the one hand, it's about her and her police partner, played by Douglas Booth, having to solve the murder of a young woman.

1:19:07and partly there's lots of, and there's kind of obvious prime suspect who is, is it a spoiler to say what the prime suspect does? No, because it's early on. It's very early on. Yeah. So the prime suspect is her ice skating coach who is extremely dodgy looking and sounding guy in general. Like, yeah, it's probably him. But then you don't know. This is a six-parter, by the way. There's lots of twists and turns to come. But then it turns out, as well as being about this specific crime, which is interesting in its own right, it's all about the level of misogyny and sexism still now, in fact, more than ever, seemingly, in the police force and in law enforcement than it's ever been before.

1:19:48And I was thinking, if you go back to the fact that Prime Suspect, one of the greatest crime dramas of all time, back in the day, also on ITV, interestingly, I think, a lot of people often assume Prime Suspect because it was one of the best things ever. Yeah, you think it's BBC. Yeah, it's not. No, ITV. So is Cracker. Exactly, in the golden days. Well, look at you, ITV lover. Oh my God. Love a bit of ITV. The golden days of Granada ITV drama, incredible. Prime Suspect, of course, Helen Mirren's character. She was facing misogyny and sexism. And so it was all, that was similarly, half of it was about...

1:20:17She was doing it when it wasn't on trend, wasn't she? Exactly. And then 30, how many years later? 30 years later, 40, how many years? Decades later. It's still terrible now. And this feels even more kind of relevant and topical because you get real life, we've all seen real life examples of grotesque ways in which the police, male policemen, have treated victims, have not dealt with the reality of horrendous crimes, murdering people themselves, sexual assault, rape, etc. It's not being taken seriously by a police. And worse than that, there are WhatsApp groups in which they make fun of this stuff.

1:20:56So it's very much within that world. It's grounded in reality. It's grounded in reality, kind of obliquely, not even that obliquely, It takes in the way that institutionalized misogyny that's happening right now. And I think it's really interesting and kind of bold and brave for an ITV Sunday night primetime show to be that much about that thing. And at one point, I think Douglas Booth's character says, it's endemic and it's not just our police HQ that's full of this kind of shit. It's all of them. And that, basically for an ITV big primetime show, I may be overstating this, but this is what my genuine reaction was.

1:21:33That's quite interesting that it's basically saying this kind of stuff is rife throughout the police forces of Great Britain. But that is seemingly what it's saying. So I think that makes it an exceptional, interesting, much more interesting thing than it might have been. And the third strand of these two, them being in love, which is... Indeed, yeah. I'm trying not to spoil that to your mouth slow. No, that's kind of in the first episode, I think. Oh, in the first episode, yeah. I think. Okay. There's definitely a vibe. There's a vibe. You pick up on the vibe quite early on. You are right, though, that that really is what separates this, what makes it interesting.

1:22:06Because, like, don't get me wrong, I love a criminal investigation. Let's investigate a murder. Go for it. I want to see what happens. But the discussion of the institutionalized misogyny and the discussion of... There are certain things, and this is one of them, that make me actively bodily enraged while watching it. I was an absolute massive fury watching this. It was so annoying. Because it's just maddening. and she has to confront one of the kind of like responders about the way they've treated a witness novel because it gets even worse as the show goes on and there's so much to that and I think that's really good stuff to put in a show and I think that was the stuff I enjoyed most about this.

1:22:44Absolutely, but more than that I think the third thing for me on top of the actual story the way it deals with this whole world of institutionalized misogyny is the way it's shot and directed is really different and interesting so there's various things they do at one point quite early on you see a social media story that's filmed footage. That's so good. So clever. I genuinely was like... They jump in the puddle and then they do it. Yeah, it's really clever. So it melds an Instagram post with the reality, if you see, in a really clever, interesting way, which I've never seen before. And there's another bit where, in fact, it's when they show you the official police interview with the victim who went to complain about Lafantur.

1:23:28And they show it in full. and that goes on for like feels like it goes on for like good 5-10 minutes one sequence just just showing the video it doesn't cut to their their reactions no it's just footage it's really really horrible really horrible but but brilliantly done I thought how many did you watch I watched actually I ended up watching three I've watched half of it because I was meant to watch two one or two I still had to watch Blue Lights for our interview with Sean yeah but I found it so compelling and gripping and because on top of all of that it's it's It's referring to real-life stuff that is terrible.

1:24:01It's actually, I thought it was innovative in the way it was shot and directed, etc. But also, it's incredibly gripping, and it's not above having brilliant cliffhangers at the end of every episode, which it does so far, having watched three. Do you know what I think about this? Go on. I think it's a fucking triumph. I think this is one of the best things I've seen this year. I literally sent an email, because we only got given three out of the six, saying to the PR, this show is so incredible, can you please send me and I this is not a me thing to do but I'm so gripped by it I was like I need to know what happens because I watched them in a run they're an hour long and I was like oh my god I need to know firstly Michelle Keegan is outstanding she's such a wonderful actress right she is absolutely and her in any kind of boss role I mean I loved her in Harlan Coben I can't remember the name of the war Harlan Coben she did nor could I that was clear when I failed to mention earlier but this has Harlan Coburn meets line of duty energy for me once for me once that's it for me once everyone and I think kind of yeah the whole sort of systemic toxic masculinity within the police service is explored and it's not it's not too in your face and that's what's scary about it because it's just pervasive in this in this police station and I just everything about this show is brilliant like you say the direction the techniques that they've taken with the filming right I know this is going to sound like it's you know not very nice to ITV it doesn't feel like an ITV show at all like what you'd come to think of something and I know we've often said actually there's great stuff on ITV and I agree but this is absolute standout this is so people are going to love this show so much because it's so compelling and you need to know the twistiness sorry go on I'll just say it's produced by Nicholas Schindler who did for me once and do most of those hard and potent things and what's the phrase I'm looking for I have to admit I have to put out there that they work with Russell T Davies and they produce all Russell T Davies' shows He's in the pocket of big Nicholas Schindler but what a great job they've done but what I've said as I've said this about you it doesn't matter who you're in the pocket of if something's brilliant you'll call it it's brilliant it doesn't matter who's in the pocket you're in the pocket carry on carry on I'm not going back to Andy Cuts with you.

1:26:29Don't worry about me. Okay, yeah, Douglas Booth is... God, he plays... We can't give anything away, but his character is absolutely brilliant. I'm going to talk about the Douglas Booth element of it. Okay. I hate to say it. Okay. I thought he was the weak link. You're the weak link. Well, what I was going to say was... I'm really hitting out at you today. Yeah. Like, what? He's not... How many have you watched? I have... Oh, you've watched more episodes of me. Yes, well done. Okay, you absolutely have. then you need to see the progression of the character right what I'm saying is Douglas Booth's character if you have only seen one which I suspect you have okay that's true here's my take on Douglas Booth I have to say I am not Douglas Booth's biggest fan I don't from stuff he's done before but I do think he's perfect personally to you that's what it sounds like or just his acting no no acting sorry oh no no he's a lovely guy he's a big Arsenal fan and lovely he's a lovely guy but I've never thought he was bad or anything just I've never thought oh Douglas Booth's in something it's going to be brutal I do think he's kind of perfect for this role.

1:27:28I agree. He's got the perfect mix of everything you need for this character, which we won't go into. Well, I... Okay, so my issues with this are, and don't get me wrong, I liked it. Nowhere near as much as you did. I think it's a triumph. I think it's good. But I do think it's clumsy in places. I love eye-rolling. Clumsy? I love eye-rolling. I think it's a little clumsy in places. It's so tight. What are you on about? I know what... There's a couple of moments that are clunky. God. I'm going to say one word to you, or two words to you. When Ian Hart, leaving his stuff somewhere, do you remember that moment?

1:28:03Yeah. Now that moment for me is a clunky moment. I think there needs to be a different way of doing that. And then you think, oh, there's cameras in the police station. I know, but you've got to let that go. There's also an interview scene in particular that Douglas B's character did, and I was like, ooh, that could have done with a little bit of just finesse. A little bit of subtlety, because I don't think that was handled particularly well. I also think the, let's say, the revelation of the first cliffhanger, which is the end of the first episode, I think, again, that probably, I would have reframed that ever so slightly, so it was slightly less clunky.

1:28:35That's not to say the substance is bad. I actually think it's good, but there were just a few, I thought, speed bumps there, where I was like, yeah. I think it's glorious in every way, and people are going to love it, and they're going to want to binge it. Steph, what I'm saying is, it's just, it is too good. it's so good that I just don't like it it's so unbelievably well made I'm joking I just can't like it I'm being sarcastic sorry I'm being ironical I think this is wonderful and also I think it has a wider more important like important message and I'm I just I'm in love with this show that I agree with you on I really really liked I think it is I think it is one of the best crime dramas of the year I agree with you on that but I just there are one or two moments and as I said the the the moment where the boss leaves his jacket and mobile phone on the top of a fighting cabinet.

1:29:24You're like, really? I don't know. I just think there had to be another way of doing that scene. And I'd be fascinated because that would be from a novel. I really, I almost partly want to read the novel to see where, is that scene in it? Where they do it, where she, somehow persuades that someone would ever do that in a million years. Also, she kind of does like the furtive looking back and forth thing. And I was like, again, clunky. I acknowledge, I acknowledge James' complaints about the clunkiness, but it's so good in general. And so, and the moments that are different and innovative and really well done mean that actually in the end it didn't matter to me these odd clunky moments.

1:29:53And I think that's the real point. The thing is you need these moments to propel the story and make sense. And you know, well you do. You need the clunkiness. It's integral. Yeah, but also you can't watch our series and go, would they do that in real life? They wouldn't do that in real life because then you just wouldn't watch anything. No, I disagree there. I actually think that the key to great storytelling is to make you suspend your disbelief within the bounds of the mythology of the show. So there's lots of things like whether it be dragons or people leaving phones and stuff. as long as you maintain kind of a consistent reality that people buy into it's fine it's the second where within the bounds of that show you're like really?

1:30:27I think that's when you stray outside the bounds slightly Oh well now you've explained it like that of course that makes sense fucking hell So the blame then and the person to blame apparently is me Oh yeah of course That started yesterday Sunday the 20th of September carries on today Monday 21st and is on Sunday Monday for the next three weeks It's so annoying that it's Yeah, because it's on Sunday, but also Sunday, Monday. So actually in two weeks, I'll be able to have finished it, won't I? Well, you've been sending the things, haven't you? No, she's sending them to me. Oh, she's sending them to you.

1:30:57Well, she hasn't replied. I don't think she's going to. Okay. Does she think you're my secretary? Is that right? Everyone, when I ask for screeners and they go, I've sent those to Boyd and James. Like, what about me? Can I have them too? Can I have them? Thanks. Oh, dear. Right, next and finally, we should say we have Manchester set the split up. So this is a spin-off from The Split. And you heard Boyd, he talked to Sanjeev Bhaskar about this only last week. And this is like a high-powered family legal firm and they're thrust into succession turmoil when Sanjeev's outgoing patriarch reluctantly hands the reins over to his daughter, here played by Ritu Arya.

1:31:34Or does he? Et cetera, et cetera. And here to tell us all about the show that Sanjeev explained in detail to Boyd is Steph Seelen. Oh, no, that he explained in detail to Boyd is me? Yeah. Okay. Because Boyd is hopelessly compromised, unless we forget, in the pocket of Big Sanjeev. All right, okay. Well... I'm sorry. Okay, that's fine, that's fine. So, at its core, this is basically a brilliant family drama about the Kishin family, who have a law firm, and Sanjeev's character is retiring, and his daughter is going to be taking over. He's reluctantly retiring, let's just say. So, you're introduced to the family.

1:32:13so there are siblings, three siblings and Sanji's and they've recently lost their mum which is, you know, a source of upset for all of them. But there's, you get the sense that there's a slight power struggle. The main actor who is played by Ritu Aria whose name in the show is Aria. Aria Hishan. Not wrong. Not differently. Yeah, but it's pronounced the same. Oh yeah, completely. I'm just underlying. That's a homophone, isn't it? When it's done that. Yeah, that's right. Well, thanks, James. Good, good. Good use of homophone. I'm feeling a bit good about myself now. She is kind of battling to take over, but she's also engaged to another one of the lawyers who works at the firm.

1:32:52But then she starts getting flashbacks of something else that's happened, which I'm not going to give away because it will give away the whole exciting point of the show. Then you're also introduced to Lenny Henry's character. Basically, along with Jane Horrocks, they have a podcast where they're giving, marriage advice. This isn't really a spoiler. They're going to the firm because he wants to get a divorce. Won't tell you the ins and outs of that. So there's that element to it. And then you've got the power struggle with the outgoing boss and the daughter. Then you've got the impending marriage and engagement which is being forced upon her.

1:33:34And that happens in the next, in the kind of the opening 10 minutes. It's not that she doesn't want to get married. It's not being forced on her in like an arranged marriage sense. No, no, no. In terms of time. In time, she's like, I don't have time to do this right now. Her future mother-in-law is like, no, no, no, you don't have time. I'm going to arrange everything for you. So they basically have what's called a chunny, which is a pre-wedding ceremony, which is kind of an official engagement ceremony.

1:33:59However, something's happened in Ari's life that you keep getting the flashbacks to. And it's got something to do with somebody who comes to work at the firm. and therein lies the most exciting um what is going to happen of this this show i i really wanted to watch more of this but i just just ran out of time it's really funny i love being immersed in this culture i don't know if you guys have ever been so it's a hint it's hindu and i have i went to a hindu wedding once and it was one of the greatest experiences of my life like the traditions are unbelievable so i loved seeing that on screen and obviously i'm from lewton which is hugely multicultural and there's lots of hindu and sikh families around there and it's just it's wonderful there's millions of weddings all the time and it's great so i really loved seeing those kind of cultural traditions on screen but what i really loved about it is the fact that they've she's got all these cultural traditions and she's really a family girl she's a good girl and she's a lawyer and she's gone into the family firm but she's got a secret and i'm not going to give away what that secret is but I yeah and it's just it's brilliant it's really funny the script is great I really thoroughly enjoyed this I think people are going to really really like it and Sanjeev Basquart is just so good as the dad he's so good have you seen or do you watch did you watch the split or the split Barcelona or any of the splits so no I only watched the first season of the split and then I never carried on right I've never seen a split this was my introduction to the world of the split.

1:35:31Right, okay. And so, are the other splits quite in the courtroom based or is it the out of the courtroom stuff that forms the bulk of the narrative? No, this is the thing, as I tried to explain last week, remember I said that when I interviewed Sanjeev, we were both like, oh, this is a unique situation because they transplant the whole concept. Yeah. So, the fact that it's a family-run law firm specialising in this kind of case, divorce cases in family law, then that is the basis of the split. Right. And this series transforms that whole concept to another setting. Another family, another city.

1:36:05Another family, another city. So that's what marked it because you sarcastically, as usual, won't last. As this won't wait, yes. We both said, me and Sanjeev were like, is there equivalent? We couldn't think of one. And you was talking about CSI. CSI, yeah. But they're different. They're just a different branding, using a brand. Well, different location, but yes, and the same basic setup. Yeah, but this is... It's basically the same thing as what we're saying. No, no, no. No, he's right. Because if you watch Nicola Walker in the first season of Slit, this is exactly what happens. So it is different.

1:36:35In a slight way, but we don't want to go that way. In a slight way, but that's enough. Anyway, but it definitely retains the crux of, which is the people, the family members vying for control and power in a succession way. In the split-up way, in the original split version, there's a matriarch more in that version, and you get to meet the kids and they're vying for power. So that's the kind of way you get. there isn't much actual courtroom action at all. Pretty much in the same way that This Life, which was about lawyers, never had ever had any courtroom action. Well, Suits was almost never in a courtroom either, wasn't it?

1:37:09Did you watch Suits? Yeah. I love Suits. We need to talk about that. I didn't know you watched it. So it's more about the machinations behind the scenes and what's so important is it's the family. It's a family-run film and it's that succession issue, as you talk about, is Sanjeev's character. I thought, and I loved the original split Abby Morgan wrote and now Abby Morgan's up there with the greatest TV writers of our time and she did a brilliant job with making that show feel completely original original take on the legal drama particularly the family element of it made it special but the dialogue was brilliantly which was Stephen Manger the casting was great everyone in that and she's done a similar thing so she's handed over this is written by Ursula Rani-Sama who is the showrunner effectively so Abby Morgan's kind of handed it over to her who knows that world, as you say, that ethnic milieu that this is saying.

1:37:59I've used the word milieu twice in today's show. I apologise. You can milieu as many times as you like. I apologise. But I think the casting, because Sanji Bhaskar, who we're known, particularly right now, for being unforgotten, for being the man that's sunny and unforgotten, he's one of the nicest, most diligent, lovely cops you'll ever meet in that show. And he's always played funny, likeable. He's quite harsh in this. He's particularly harsh to his daughter, to Arya. And I thought that was interesting that he kind of leans into the kind of, sometimes the gratuitous nastiness of him, the way he treats her.

1:38:33Oh, he must get nasty, because I thought it was all right. Yeah, no, he does some really quite... Mean things. He has a very old school patriarchal manner, which I think she understandably grates against. Yeah, and he does stuff that's quite shocking later on. Oh, does he? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yet, you're kind of, not rooting for him, but you believe he would behave in the way... even the way he does for various reasons. He does something at the Chun-E which I'm like, oh, that was an arsehole move. That's an example. He is capable of being an arsehole move. Then you've got Aryan Nick as his gay son, Cav, who's great.

1:39:07But I thought they, one of my favourite moments, actually, I have to say, was when they're at the Chun-E and two ladies come over, older ladies, they come over and he's with his gay son who he obviously knows is gay and they say, when are we going to match you up and he says my daughter's available and then Sanju's character says well yeah maybe your son and that for me was a beautiful moment actually of acceptance yeah but his putative would be love interest is played by the great Mawran Rizwan friend of the pod yes and they're a brilliant kind of they have a brilliant clash because Mawran Rizwan's character is like an online social media showbiz reporter that felt very close to home yeah but he's constantly kind of trailing them and trying to get gossipy celebrity stories out of them.

1:39:56So I just think the whole, and by the way, it also retains the case of The Week format and structures. So this week it's the Lenny Henry, as you say, the Lenny Henry Jane Horrocks one. The following week there's a whole different story. Jamila Jamil's in the following week. And that's about her being exploited by her partner business. Yeah, and that's really interesting. So I know James hates Case of the Week things, but... I do, but do you know what? I have to say, like, the fact... But then I wonder with this how much the cases matter, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, they don't matter. Certainly, and I only watched the first episode, but the case was almost irrelevant because I was so drawn into the family stuff and what's going on with her, what's going on with her sister.

1:40:36By the end of it, I was very much in with all that. I was like, I really kind of need to know how this can be because she's so compelling in this. Yeah, and they're all so good looking. Like, everyone's so good looking in this show. It's like sickening. It shreds the line between comedy and drama really well. So it does it in a way which I think you would appreciate. there's no comedic element of it that's forced there's a lot of stuff in there I think the sheer fact that everyone's having an affair pretty much, everyone is shagging each other illicitly behind everyone else's back it's turned into quite a funny thing and it gets almost farcical as it goes on because everyone's got secrets they're keeping about their private lives and that for example, the way they deal with that is funny and tense and interesting all at the same time so I think the mixture of all the genres and the whole world of it works very well we love we really like it's a good week it was really fun I did worry that I'd be completely lost not being a split aficionado but not at all you do not need to have seen any previous splits you don't no the split up then which is on BBC you won BBC won Sunday and Monday as well same format as The Blaine that's the way they're doing it these days it's all Sunday and Monday for three weeks Sunday and Monday happy days yeah right what else is on this week what have we missed Boyley well there is Play for Today is back on Channel 5 but those are really good one-off hour-long dramas this is what the first one stars Daniel Mays and Amit Shah and Joel Fry as three old friends go on a wild camping trip which goes horribly wrong James Hayes great it's so anti-Channel 5 it's so transparent yeah there's some good stuff for Channel 5 they were good the Play for Today they were good and it's good they bring back single one-off stories Brothers starts on Wednesday which I know Stephanie Seeland is very exciting we will cover that on Pilot Plus oh good okay she was asking me only this morning when we're going to cover that.

1:42:23Yes, I love James McConaghy, Woody Harrelson. Yeah. Exactly. Harrelson, I don't know why it was delayed. Playing themselves. Yes. Not Going Out is back, James' favourite British sitcom. That's on Wednesday at 9.30 with Lee Mack, and there's a documentary about it because it's been on for 20 years. Oh, I should be certain to watch that documentary. James, we like documentaries about shows. Not about that one. Anyway, I'll just go back and watch the Deep Space Nine one again. American Horror Story 13 arrives on Friday on Disney+. and it's got 13 parts to it but just because it's got 13 can you imagine?

1:42:56A Different World? A Different World. Oh, I'm excited about that. Yes. I don't know much about that. That's Thursday. That's Thursday, okay. It's a show. It's a show. No, it's a show. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Go on then. Tell us about it. I believe it's the reimagining of the older Different World which was around... It is. Yeah, which was an amazing show which probably neither of you watched. Okay, well I'll be on that one. Okay. It was incredible. Also Boston Blue which is the Blue Blood spinoff which seems absolutely essential viewing that comes to Paramount Plus also on Thursday. And Saturday is the start of Marble Hall Murders which follows on from Magpie Murders and Moonflower Murders Steph Cozy Crime Cozy Crime adapted from the Anthony Horowitz Susan Ryland series of books but the main reason to watch this of course it stars the great Leslie Manville.

1:43:40Oh we do love Leslie Manville. You can't go wrong with a bit of Manville. No. This should be interesting. What is our pick of the week? Youth Over the blame? Yes. The blame. And I'm going for the split up, which was the one I enjoyed the most. So we have absolutely no agreement whatsoever. Oh, I love it when that happens. Amazing. That is it for this week's slightly feisty episode of the Pilot TV Podcast. We hope you enjoyed that. If you want to send Steph voicemails, feel free to do so. At Stephanie Seeland. Please don't send them to me, Boyd. At Boyd Hilton. At James C. Dyer. At Pilot TV Pod.

1:44:14We will be back in your ears, as we've said on Thursday when we're going to be doing Brothers on Apple TV+. And next week, we will have, on this very podcast, I think we'll have our Sianbrook interview, so you'll get to see, meet, and hear from Ziggy. Ziggy the sausage dog, who also accompanied her into the studio, which is very, very exciting. And Blue Lights, we'll be covering on next week's podcast as well, as well as other things. Okay. Super. We're all done. Is everyone good? I'm good. We're fine. That was a good episode of the podcast. So good, in fact, Steph. It was so fantastic. that I actually didn't really enjoy it.

1:44:50If you also didn't enjoy it, please leave us a five-star review. Pile it out.