WORLD CUP CALL IN SHOW! Ep. 6

24:41Lewis Bowden:And then they've just gone out to probably the best team in the world, best team. Admittedly, quite flaccidly, but I think they've been disputed in the Euros, I'll give you that. But he's still won a World Cup. I just think we might look back at that in a bit of time and think, have they not won more than that? Don't you always think that about France with the players they always produce? They've always got good players, haven't they? I do agree they've had a really good... but when you've got Luca Dinho and Rabiot oh yeah they're still flawed out there and Mainon in goal like they're not they're not fucking amazing are they I think just that forward line in it yeah but it's a team game mate it's not all about the individuals right who have we got next

25:27Lewis Bowden:Kesha welcome to the calling show let us know what you want to talk about and Callum's going to have a big argument with you well I don't know what he said yet oh oh Nah, I mean, I think you guys are going to have a lot of England chat today. I don't think it's good for your mental health to talk about England anymore. Yeah, for our God, yeah. And then talk about the other team in the final, not the one that you lost to, Spain. Yeah. Genuinely, I think this Spain team's been so, so massively underrated over the loss, like over the course of this World Cup. I agree. And I think partially because of, you know, like they were just like, okay, the attacking doesn't look good.

26:10Jamal had an incredible tournament. I think he was like really good against France.

26:14Lewis Bowden:Yeah. But the more contentious point is I think Rodri is the top three, six of all time. Oh, that's a good... You know what? Who's your top three? His Spanish mates up there and all, isn't he? well it's hard to argue against Busquets yeah yeah yeah 100 % then for me it's it's Busquets Makaleli and then between Rodri and Kante but Kante's not really his sixth though is he a little bit yeah that's that's another one of the reasons and then I think I think I mean Perlo's up there obviously but I feel like who did you say sorry who's up there Perlo Perlo Perlo yeah yeah yeah Perlo's a good shout he's up there but like I think it's between him Rodri and Makalele for me between second and forward I think I'd have him ahead I think I'd have him ahead and Makalele I'd agree with that as well he's got a shout out I think it's a historical thing but right now genuinely the career Rodri's had now since like 21 on yeah yeah yeah you're right you are right Trembl Ballon d 'Or yeah Ballon d 'Or yeah Euros now possibly a World Cup At the beginning of this season everyone was just like okay well he's back from the injury but like is he going to be the goal and stuff I think the reason we both agree with you I mean me especially is it's obviously coming back from the injury and he looked shaky didn't he to begin with but I think he's kind of found his feet again now it's also he is the main cog of all these teams that are successful like it's not like he's it's not like I don't know no disrespect like Wes Brown's got a really good trophy catalogue.

27:59Lewis Bowden:Yeah. Do Man United win those trophies without him? Probably, don't they? Do Man City and Spain win these trophies or Spain, the Euros, without Rodri? No, man. Of course not. Absolutely not. In fairness, Rodri did get injured in the final, but obviously he was vital up until then. He was one player in the tournament. He was one player in the tournament. Yeah. He was one player in the tournament. I think people talk about Rodri's like off the ball work and obviously his passing and stuff. I think the main reason Rodri is so high up in my rating is I've never seen him lose a midfield battle. Yeah, he's really physical and he's a lot bigger than people think, I think.

28:39I mean, more in terms of the narratives. Every time someone puts him up against, they say, oh, this midfield, they're going to dominate them or City's going to be dominated in the midfield. Rodri just walks it every single time. but I remember like when Rodri was just coming back off the injury and then we were playing I'm a City fan we were playing Arsenal in the cup final and then they're just like oh right Supermandy because that was all the talk through the season at that point and then Bernardo was good that day but Rodri in my opinion single-handedly just battered both of them and he did it again in the Prem game he's been doing it consistently for like years now with one or something legal of him and Stones.

29:29Lewis Bowden:Yeah, he's a different level mentally. And also, this is kind of the issue with England. We don't... Look, we're athletic and I think we do have an identity and it's kind of like get in their faces, get the ball wide, we're direct. The Spanish from the age of three are taught to fucking scan and find pockets and get in triangles and just pass you to death and control games and control the tempo. He just operates on a different level. And I think you've seen in this World Cup he's been the best midfield at the World Cup yeah completely I think so and I'm a little initially I was a little sceptical about the start of the next season but I think Roderick Anderson in the midfield now do you think he's definitely going to stay?

30:10I think this season yeah I think he's leaving he's probably going to leave on a free next year but it's he's infuriating because like he's been constantly chirping on the side about leaving and then also bringing up things about how he doesn't want to go. So he's been very conflicted with the way he's speaking. And it's pissing me off.

30:35Lewis Bowden:Right, who do you think wins the final then, mate? Spain. And this is one other point that I was going to bring up. The reason I thought... I backed you guys to beat Argentina yesterday. Yeah, so did we. I genuinely thought England would probably have had a better chance winning if France was up against them than with the Spain team. I agree. Because, like, the reason I thought you'd beat Argentina is because England, over this tournament, like, while obviously Jude and Kane have been caddying through the attacking phase, the way of, like, putting your foot in on the games is there's, like, dominating the midfield and then giving them the, like, space and chance to do that.

31:21You'd be able to dominate the Argentine you should have

31:24Lewis Bowden:you should have you should have but you did for like 60 minutes and then German spy was at it yeah well yeah well and that's why we're now depressed again thanks for calling in mate and enjoy the final on Sunday pretty bang on the car you know what he was saying about not taking Spain that seriously I agree because I didn't think they'd get to the final really but then it's like I did I said they'd win it oh true I'm surprised you haven't got top on I'm coming out of the town it's at it's at lives I've come from home haven't I yeah that you I were a bit worried about them because apart from your mouth they haven't got a lot at top end really but you still think it's right a lack of nine I know it's been good for Spain but Yazbel's not really someone that you get scared compared to other top nations but I mean the core's just so good I think people do also yeah I think sometimes you do get caught up in the love affair of individual talent and stuff.

32:23Lewis Bowden:Which I've still got. Danny Almo was quality the other night. He has been for Spinner. But he is a good... Don't get me wrong, Danny Almo isn't as good as Elisa, but also, how bad was Elisa the other night in a big game? Elisa hasn't played many games like that at that level. He did the same against PSG as well. He's not used to this level, right? And I'll tell you who he is. Danny Almo, he's been there, done it. So, it's almost like you might get Elisa at 95 % against fucking Morocco. but 50 % against Spain. Olmo will just give you 70 % no matter who he plays because he's not, I don't know, it's an interesting one that with certain players and how they lift and Fabio Ruiz.

33:07Lewis Bowden:But look at what he wins at PSG. They're just used to winning and I don't know if a part of me now thinks I wish Arsenal would have won the Champions League because then we would have had a few more players in the team who know how to. Is that a weakness of Prem then? Because it's so strong and we haven't got one team that runs away a week with all these players that win every week? No, I don't think it's that. I honestly think, again, I don't know. I honestly think it's within us. We're all the same fans. We're all pessimistic. We're all, I don't think many of our lads, again, I might be wrong.

33:42Lewis Bowden:I don't know them. I don't know how many of them would have gone into that game yesterday, like truly, actually deep down thinking we're winning this. I always think apart from probably Kane and Bellingham that don't play in England and also when we go 1-0 up I again I might be wrong but from an outsider looking in it seems it seems like they go oh my god we're 1-0 up yeah instead of Spain who go right 1-0 let's kill the gap yeah let's get in over it and finish it yeah realistically obviously it doesn't momentum and all that the game shouldn't have changed at 1-0 we should have kept it because it was suiting us well it did we had that moment didn't we where Rodgers picked the ball up on the right-hand side and he fed it into Kane.

34:22Yeah. Bad touch. You're thinking then, that could have been the repeat.

34:25Lewis Bowden:Yeah, or the only other one we had was Rodgers carried it in and then the shot got blocked. He just kept going. He shot past it though, I think. But yeah, it's ifs, buts and maybes. Who have we got next? Welcome to The Courtless Show. You're here with Tommy Giza and Callum Fiza. What do you want to talk about, my friend? You're going home. You're going home. You're going England are going home That's a You what? You're the gift that keeps on giving Death, Texas What English team do you support? Say that again, you broke off Say that again, you broke off I said death, Texas Power It's just great to see How did Ireland get on?

35:14Yeah, we're crap We didn't make it into the tournament We won as much as you We got as far as yourselves

35:19Lewis Bowden:Yeah, but you haven't had the summer we've had, mate. Oh, you had a good summer. This is exactly the point I was making the last time I was on. It's like, you enjoy yourselves, you have a good crack. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Last time you was on, you were saying that we overrate them. You did overrate them, 100%. We got to the semifinals. You said we'd lose to Mexico? True. No, I didn't. You were the wrong person. It was another Irish hater that said that. Sorry. So what team do you support? Iceborne Coventry oh right I remember who you are yeah I remember you I remember you so you enjoyed yesterday did you do you not think it's do you not think it's like I mean I love a good 8 watch here and there but do you not a part of you think oh god this is actually fucking depressing and sad that our summers rely on England losing like do you not think god maybe instead of supporting Coventry I'll support one of the fucking Irish teams and then maybe our national team will get better and we don't have to rely on English players whose grandmas are Irish.

36:20Lewis Bowden:And then maybe, maybe one day we'll win a game in the summer. Do you not think that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, look... When it comes to qualifying for major tournaments, that's an achievement for us. It's where you're at in life. It's where you're at when you're a supporting team. You support West Brom. You hate Wolves. You can't... Well, right now you're in the same league next year. But when Wolves were in the division of Bully, you couldn't be chatting to Wolves fans about what they're at, you'd just be here watching them But then imagine laughing at Man United for finishing second then It's relative though isn't it?

36:56Lewis Bowden:Obviously when Wolves win Europe and that, I wanted them not to win it or do well but comparatively, and I was happy when they went out, but really see they got to the quarterfinals Europa League, I wasn't wearing a Seville top I wasn't wearing an Argentina top and I'm not taking every person for who they are, I suppose. Like, I'm watching the tournament. I'm just enjoying the tournament. But watching England lose is just the best part of it. Like, it's the most fun thing by far. Exactly. But isn't that in itself a really sad existence, mate? That's your summer. Your summer. Like, do you know what?

37:29Lewis Bowden:I'll take it from the Scots. I'll take it from the Scots. At least they've qualified. They've won a game. And like, they probably should have done better, but it is what it is. And we took the piss out of them for going out. It's like, you're that guy. You're like the virgin who laughs at someone for shagging a five out of ten? That's, again, that's your take on it. If you're an Irish fan, you play for qualifying for tournaments. That's where you're at. Isn't that sad, though? 24 years ago, you were getting to the quarterfinals of the World Cup. Yeah, I mean, how far we've fallen. If you want to start taking the piss out of Ireland, you can open up that.

38:07No, I wouldn't.

38:07Lewis Bowden:It's like kicking a dead dog. I'm not going to take the piss out of Ireland. taking the piss out of he was like kicking his head dog at this point too I mean we had at least like we had Arsenal to laugh at in the Premier League you know for bottling it every year but like ye in major tournaments are the gift that keeps on giving it's unbelievable like it's so enjoyable watching that and the fact the way he went out as well it was so pathetic like it was like I thought what I said my point that I made when I came on the last time was that I felt in later on the tournament that you wouldn't be able to break down love loss I thought maybe a team like Argentina who are a really good cohesive unit as a team would play around you, score an early goal you know, shut up shopping, you were able to break them down.

38:46It was even worse than that. Ye took the lead Ye had the game at your hands and I don't know all these fans online, all these Messi fans online or not Messi fans, but Ronaldo fans online crying about FIFA rigging the tournament for Messi FIFA didn't tell Thomas Tuchel to put 40 men behind the ball.

39:01Lewis Bowden:Yeah, you're right, you're all right You've just said it's pathetic the way we've gone at It was pathetic, it was so embarrassing It is pathetic the way we've gone at It is pathetic how we've gone out. Yeah, but to world champions. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, Cal, Cal. You said to win a game as Ireland. No, no, no. We're not talking about Ireland right now. We're not talking about Ireland. We're talking about England. You honestly don't think yesterday was pathetic. I absolutely do. So what are you on about then? In the context of an Irishman calling us pathetic. So what? No, no. Yeah, we can all have a laugh and a joke.

39:28Lewis Bowden:And he knows Ireland is shit. And obviously the Irish don't like the English. We're terrible. We're arsehole. So they're going to laugh at us when we go out. So will we even walk together? Objectively, but objectively, what he's saying is correct, isn't it? We were pathetic yesterday in the last half hour. Yeah, I agree with you. And for a team that hired this man to make us world champions, to go out like that, it's pathetic. So he's right. It doesn't matter. He could be Irish. He could be from Timbuktu. It doesn't matter, does it? He's right. I'll fuck off then. How's that? No, but he is right.

39:57Lewis Bowden:I mean, don't get me wrong. I think he lives a very sad life that all summer, he just prays on England losing. And a part of me, and I'll be honest, summer man you you you losing bottling in a major tournament just a cherry on top of my summer's balance I'm not living my summer for England like you're not you're not that important it sounds it it sounds it you're calling into a show on a Thursday evening singing you're going home you like you put up a story on your Instagram with after Scott Scott knocked out mocking them you know it's the way it goes it's banter yeah no of course but you do it for an hour and then you get over it yeah it's like you're mate we're over it I mean I don't even know what game you're on about we're worrying about of the Euros now.

40:34Lewis Bowden:Who did they lose to Scotland? They didn't, they just didn't go through. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I think, look, I think objectively you are right. I think we were, it was piss poor. I think two goals absolutely buried us. Yeah, if I could just say as well, like the last time I came on, I mean, it was more or less exactly what I said would happen. I didn't think you could break down Lord Black and that's how you would come unstuck. That's not in the end how you came unstuck. I did not anticipate you buckling it in the most embarrassing way. in the embarrassing way he did last night. But I said that he had, on paper, one of the best teams in the tournament, but individually not as good as France.

41:11And as a unit, as a cohesive unit, you weren't nearly as good as the Spanish or even the Argentinians. Because even the Argentinians, like on paper, you're far better than the Argentinians. Right then. Okay then.

41:20Lewis Bowden:Okay then. So, by the way, I agree with that. I think we are the fourth best team at the tournament. I think we've kind of got to as far as we can. So why is it embarrassing then to you? I think the way he went out, and I think as well, the point that you kind of shut me down on last time, which is fair enough, I do think that just the British public or the British fans in a way have a loser mentality, and that feeds into the group, and that's why you saw... We've been told every single thing. We've been called everything arrogant. Terrified half an hour ago. We've been called everything, though.

41:55We've been called... We're too arrogant, and then we're loser mentality. Yeah, I know. You actually can't ring. We just sit here. like just you're look you're like you're the villains of the world you're the villains of history you just own it and do like honestly I'm gutted

42:09Lewis Bowden:no I know but yeah we understand we're the villains because like we're better than everyone else everyone wants to live in our country you all want to support our teams you all want to follow our sports we get it we get it with the best and you all want to be us and you look up to us and like the mighty England are like what you aspire to be I get it honestly I do but in our nature like we're kind of like jolly villains like we kind of We kind of conquered the world, but not as badly as the Vikings did when they were doing all that really bad stuff. Or kind of how the Germans tried to do. But we're not that bad.

42:43Lewis Bowden:But we'll go, good day to you, sir, as we do it. And I get it. Look, Owen, I think your name is. I can't see it on the screen. I get it. I understand you probably wake up most days and dream of being English and wishing you were born in England, you had the prosperity of this country. and that's why you support an English team. You probably drink Yorkshire tea. Look, I get it. And I get it. It's absolutely fine. And we will accept you as one of us. I've got distant Irish family. I don't mind you guys. You're cute. It's really cute. And it may be when you do finally just admit you want to be English and come and get an English citizenship, you can follow a football team that actually competes and you can have a bit of fun.

43:28What you've just gone through there is exactly how English fans should behave and exactly the identity you should adopt. Like the Argies, look at the Argentinians last night. I mean this in the most complimentary way possible. They're an absolute team of rats. Oh, yeah, they're horrible. And they're great to watch at their box office, and they don't care. They're not trying to win over any fans internationally. Yeah. And it works.

43:51Lewis Bowden:I get that, but I do also think that's kind of a mentality thing. so like the South Americans will be taught to dive or told to like when we're coached as kids it's almost like probably a naive honesty to the English players and people I think that's just how we are and you're probably right but then also we then can't pretend to be something we're not we can't just pretend to be these shithouses when we're not like Mark Gay isn't that is he Mark Gay is not going to act like Romero but I think unfortunately at the end of the day we've come up short I think we should have won that game yesterday.

44:27Lewis Bowden:I think it was in our hands. And I think decisions yet again in major tournaments at big moments have cost us. And I think until we get over that hump, it'll keep happening because it's just instilled in us. I think it's just a mentality we have. It's almost like, oh, my God, we're 1-0 up. What are we going to do? And I do think we cack our pants a bit. Yeah. And just to put away the trolling for a minute, I do think that identity issue is almost impossible. It's like an impossible sort of beast or angle. Your teams have it. And when you have it, it's so hard to... Precisely. And what do we do then?

45:02Lewis Bowden:How do we change that? We kind of need a bit of luck to get us through and get us over a hump. So like last night, we could have done with, I don't know, that goal, the second goal, Messi was offside from the... No, the first one, sorry. He was offside from the corner. He fouled as well. Messi fouled Jed Spence from one of them. We could have just done with that being offside. Obviously, he wasn't. But we could have... I feel like we just kind of need just a bit of luck somewhere just to get us over that hump. And then, well, I think once you do it, like look at the Spanish failed for years and years and years.

45:33Lewis Bowden:And then once they did it, obviously put a lot into the youth and that, didn't they? Like got a team and they all played the same way. And I think England, compared to where we were 20 years ago, we have come on leaps and bounds. Sorry, not even 10 years ago. We have come on leaps and bounds. I don't think we're far away. but also at the end of the day we're not the best team in the world so we're not going to win the World Cup. Yeah, and it's kind of like it's one of those things where until you get over the hump it feels like a curse and for me as a it feels like the most inevitable thing ever and equally as enjoyable every time.

46:12Lewis Bowden:I've been doing it in all the Fowler Irish. Oh yeah, 100%. I mean, I was pissing my pants in Scotland right now but that's only because they give it to us I'd actually I mean I'd actually support Ireland but I understand why the Irish hate England but Owen how do you think Coventry are going to get on just to like like elucidate my own like to express my own position like I don't hate English people I don't really even hate English no yeah yeah yeah we get that you hate the imperial identity of Britain and that is kind of exemplified in the strongest way from your kind of you know your sort of Billy Bulldog British fans who go around the base supporting you like it's just great to watch them yeah but again that's like me tarnishing you with the few Irish people who were in Argentina that is they are very few and far between and actually most of the travelling England fans who go home and away and go to all the games aren't those like they they're like those lads some of the lads I met out in Mexico they're like they're just the nicest people their life is just following England I'll tell you what that is a fucking tough life that is not What a reward in life, if I tell you that for free.

47:21Imagine that it's following Ireland.

47:22Lewis Bowden:Well, there's nothing to follow, are you on about it? What, follow them to the next friendly? Right, how do you think Coventry are going to get on next year? Oh, I couldn't tell you right now. I don't like the new kit, so that's already put me in the bad mood. Yeah, that's a weird one, isn't it, that? Have you seen that? I've seen it now. It's blue and white stripes. Looks like a horror-skill kit. Have they ever done that? It's the wrong blue as well. Yeah, they had it in the eight. It's not the right blue. It's all right. The FA Cup winning The first year back in the Prem You want the proper sky blue Do you?

47:53Lewis Bowden:I thought it was really weird And then who do you think wins Sunday mate? On Sunday I'm going to go for the Argentinians It would be nice to see Messi Crown off his all time career That's what I do I don't care to be honest It would be absolutely ridiculous Right thanks for phoning in mate And I appreciate the bit of fun banter but we're going to go back to being depressed have a good one enjoy the rest of the tournament lads enjoy the fun that's how you banter people that's a real person rather than a Twitter person yes that is how you instead of like I don't know that's from the shit I've been seeing I put up a tweet earlier being like look obviously through gritted teeth I'm a bit like look at the end of the day the moments we've been given the four goals against Croatia and the performance Kane's late double against Congo go.

48:47Lewis Bowden:Obviously I was there. Fucking winning in the Azteca, the fucking the Jude double and the extra time goal and then even the Gordon goal. The moments they've given us this summer, I'm sorry. Yes, maybe I do sound like a loser. I am gutted and I think we should have, and I'm not happy and we should have got to the final at least, but they've given me another great summer. I remember going out to Costa Rica. I'm sorry for being okay with it. We still look back on fondness and all of losing to Croatia in a semi-final. Do you know what I mean? We still look back and think, oh God, that moment, you know what I mean?

49:24Yeah, but you say that, like Croatia were better than us. No, I know, but you know, like historically wise, you think, oh, well, you look back on all these things which we've lost in them all and you still think, oh, that were a good time. We had fun there.

49:36Lewis Bowden:And then also, one thing I will say, all these like the Irish, the Welsh and the Scottishes, you've had one, two, three, four, five, six six games hoping praying England lost just to be disappointed we've had six games of elation joy we've only had one game of disappointment and loss and you've had one game of joy so we win bitches yeah we do that's maths alright it's true though if you actually phrase it like that we're the winners yeah we are the real winners don't you forget that because I'll tell you something I'll tell you something Cal I don't know about you I feel like a winner right now yeah hell yeah baby but no people are in the replies being like god stop coping like they're literally like abusing me and I'm just like Jesus like would you rather me be miserable yeah would you rather me be miserable you can't celebrate anything unless you win and and I think that probably you're probably the same I think supporting the clubs we support I do take victories in things like this because it's like fucking hell I'll fucking take a semi-final Jesus that would be a sad life wouldn't it right have we got any more Yeah, one more.

50:45Lewis Bowden:We'll do one more. All right, mate. Welcome to the calling show. Sorry for keeping you waiting. We'll make it snappy. Don't worry. What do you want to talk about, mate? I was going to like England yesterday. We had a general on Tuchel. Go on then. What's your thoughts? I think he's got to go. He's been brought in to get us through these tough games and he couldn't do and he's essentially failed. Right. Seriously, we've lost one game and then we're going into home soil for Euros where basically every game's at Wembley would you gamble on someone else rather than Tuchel then for that why is it Tuchel's a gamble he's just proved he can't do it yeah of course he is but then available names are there the only thing I would stop him for is Pep that's it I'd get Eddie Howe in oh Eddie Howe no way I'd never want a foreign manager again there's a reason no foreign manager has ever won the World Cup I'll tell you what imagine Pepin yesterday when we've won the look I'll tell you what He's keeping that ball and he's keep on going.

51:44He's not putting all them mind behind the ball. No, I don't think he would have

51:47Lewis Bowden:because we haven't got the players to do that. I actually, do you know who I want? Frank Lampard. No, you don't. You want Eddie Howe. I want Frank Lampard. Lampard. What's he done to prove that? Eddie Howe or Tuchel? She's got Coventry promoted, mate. No, no, no. I'm not saying... Yeah, you did. I'm not saying Eddie Howe's a better manager than Tuchel. You just said he'd rather have a great one. I want Tuchel gone. I don't want a German managing the English national team a so-called PE teacher was doing anyway, and actually, through happiness for me anyway, I actually felt a bit of a connection to him and an identity with him.

52:22Lewis Bowden:Oh, yeah, I loved him. We've sold our soul as a nation, right, to get the same results. Goodbye, we tried it, ta-ra. We've tried it with Sven, we've tried it with Capello, we've tried it with Tuchel. I don't think it can work. I would not swap him going into Euros. Who's a better manager, Scaloni or Tuchel? Tuchel. Who's in the final? who's a world champion. But you've just said they're a better it's not it's not yeah but who's moulded that team who's made that team to be what it is. Really? Who's the Spain manager? Not got a clue. There you go. It's not all about having an elite manager is it?

52:58Lewis Bowden:I'm not saying it's not about your Carsley job then. Do you know what I mean? I would have given it Carsley over to Coole. Is he even English? Isn't he Irish? No he's born in England but he's representing Ireland. But you don't think Lampard would give us more unity and there are players The players would respond to him more. I've got a video from a year ago where I said I'd have Lampard as next England manager. I'd have Lampard. I 100 % would in time, but I wouldn't right now while we've got Tuchel and I think we could win next thing. What do you think about that, Al? I'm not sure on Lampard.

53:24Why?

53:25Lewis Bowden:He's not experienced, is there? Is there not? He's managed Derby, Chelsea, Coventry. But I wouldn't do it for this one. I wouldn't mind if it were called. He failed at Derby, really, didn't he? No, he didn't fail at Derby. Yeah, I mean, he didn't know. He beat Leeds. He beat Leeds in this playoff semi-four, which no one expected. And that Villa team, another one took for a playoff. Harry Wilson, Mason Mount, Tamori, he should be winning that final. Yeah, but they weren't, they weren't, yeah, that's like saying, yeah, that's a bit of a fugazi. Come on Al, you're better than that. He nurtured them at Derby to help them become the players that they became.

53:57Lewis Bowden:It looked like Messi. Yeah. I think Lampard has a very underrated managerial career. I agree with you. And he gets a kick out of players and all the players will love him and respect him. I was listening to something earlier with Graham Hunter, you know the one who, the bold Scottish guy who reports for the Spanish. He's doing a documentary, I think he or someone he works with, he's been doing a documentary with Jude for the last 18 months and his words were, unequivocally, the Bellingham family hate Tuchel. Like, there is, there is a thing there of... Why? I don't know. I think it, I think Tuchel leaving him out of the squad, prodding him and stuff he didn't like.

54:33Lewis Bowden:I think, I think there is a bit of a battle. I also think apparently Tuchel's a bit of a weird guy. he can come across a bit strange. I just don't... Do you think it's easy to say this, though, after we've lost? Yeah, well, no, but that's what it's about. It's about winning and losing. But then would you... Right, can I just say... But then you're telling me... Yeah, but you wouldn't have swapped Tuchel at any point, then. Not Tuchel, I mean Southgate, then. I wouldn't have got rid of Southgate. Yeah, but then we're serial losers, then, even in that as well. I don't... I think he would have got us over the line, eventually.

55:02Lewis Bowden:But do you not think Tuchel will? No. You don't think that for Tuchel? No, because... That's the thing, though. Tuchel's been brought in to be the winner, hasn't he? Yeah. Exactly. He's had one go and lost at world champions. But he was brought in for that. Southgate was brought in to save the fucking... At the start. To save the nation. And he's made us... No, wait, wait. He's made us world challengers. That's what he did, Southgate. I completely agree with you. Nurtured us into that. This bloke has been around professional football manager for 15 odd years. He's a Champions League winner. He's this, he's that.

55:33Lewis Bowden:He's elite. He's managed Bayern. He's managed PSG. He's only on all these teams. So we're going to give him one of the biggest contracts ever known to an international manager ever to make sure in these games, in these moments, you're the man to get us over the line. And he's failed miserably. Once, once, one time. One time in one game. The only time it mattered. The only time he was brought in was for that game, Callum. And he's failed. What are you on about? It's one time. I've seen any manager ever who has made a mistake, get rid, get someone else, ever. No, that's... The mistake, though. The mistake was so huge.

56:07Lewis Bowden:He fucked up massively there, didn't he? Yeah, just once. There was a cat outside the pub yesterday who peeked his head in and went, fuck me, they're deep, aren't they? Why doesn't he just step them up a few yards? Everyone could see what was going on. And what's the point of having this manager on this massive contract, who's a German managing the English national team, for him to just fail even worse than Southgate did? Because at least with Southgate, you kind of knew his limitations we were promised this guy was different and he was going to get us over the line and he had that mentality and because he wasn't English even I bought into it I fucking fell for it so now it's failed I am going to criticise him and I am going to say what I think and I don't think he should manage it he's criticising him and then saying we should sack him because of that he should walk no way what was his job to win the World Cup is that not is that not like four team is that not four nations probably job but it's not even it's not even about winning the World Cup if he'd have lost in the final to a Spain or a France like just lost to a better team you hold your hands up but you said that Argentina are a better side than us you said that on last fall I think they're a better team I think he said it's four nations jobs but this is my point one of them is Portugal and France both of their managers are gone as well exactly and the German manager's gone if I don't know what Germany did yeah 100 % if you lose to Paraguay that's different to lose to world champions but I still think we should have bet though he's obviously got it wrong no but this is my point right so So we are player for player better than Argentina, but Argentina are a better team.

57:38Lewis Bowden:That doesn't add up to me when we've got an elite manager and they've got fucking Scaloni. But how long has he been there as well? And you're building togetherness with Messi and stuff. I've been there's a lot of storylines behind Messi that brings you all together. And that's just where they are. Yeah, it's almost like we had another bloke who was there quite a long time and built togetherness and a unity and we were going the right way. And you just had his own limitations and you truly never expected us to win all them at Southgate. No, I thought... Because you knew his limitations then. No, I thought...

57:59Lewis Bowden:I actually thought we'd... Stupially, I thought we'd beat Spain in the last years and I thought we'd beat Italy. Right, okay, fair enough. Because I actually think the manager doesn't, like, I don't think it's that big of a deal. I don't think you need a top, top manager at international level. I think you just need, in my opinion, a manager from that nation. I think that's a key one. A manager from that nation who gets on with the players and brings a unity and a togetherness. And if there was someone there, truly, that were English and were at this level, I would say go and get him but I don't think there is you've just not listened to anything I've said what do you mean I don't care about having an elite manager oh I really do I really seriously do because if you're saying that we haven't got the players that we haven't got Messi for example we've not got a forward line that French have got which at last two like winners or finalists are the thing like if we have not got the players at that level we need a manager that can get us to that level instead and obviously there's no English ones that are there that can do it who managed Greece in 2004 but look at how far back you are going right now I'm just asking you a question But I ain't got a clue.

59:02Lewis Bowden:Right then. They weren't the best team. So far back, who just managed Spain in the Euros in this World Cup then? He doesn't know. He doesn't even know. You're saying they've got better players than us and that they're a better team than us. Do you think player for player, Spain are way better than us? No, I think they're definitely better at middle. They've probably got better centre-backs as well. And your mouth. So there you go then. They're probably quite even. So why are they a better team? Because like you're saying earlier on, the Spanish are built and brought up with this sort of culture from being kids that we aren't.

59:28Lewis Bowden:No, yeah, that's a very good shout with the Spanish. Why are Argentina a better team than us? They shouldn't be, should they? Tuchel's had long enough now and ten bulldogs with them. That's what Argentina are. Okay, but again, that's Scaloni, obviously, instilling that type of team and that style. But I think we played to our strengths. We've got two players that are better than anybody else in this full team that best by an absolute mile, Kane and Bellingham, that scored all those goals and were handcrafted to them. Apart from the mistake, which we've omitted already, with Sobs, I think he's done well.

1:00:00I think he's done well in all the games apart from the one mistake yes the only mistake that does matter ultimately because it's cost us it but I don't think we should sack him based on that I do and that's fine he agreed to disagree

1:00:11Lewis Bowden:he had one job and that was in this moment what's hilarious is we literally spoke about oh when we're 1-0 up against a team Tuchel won't do this Tuchel won't do what Southgate did against Italy yeah that's true and then he's done the exact same him so sorry I don't want a German managing my team when he's not making us any better he's done in my opinion what I think I could have done with this team because well if we carried on the way we were playing and we lost that way it'd be a much different conversation it's the way that we actually lost again we've never played well that's another thing if you know what yesterday do you know what yesterday yeah if we like in the 60th minute if we still would have had a go then do you know when Spence had that tackle yeah they'd have scored that and then and Messi has a bit of magic, and they beat us 2-1.

1:00:59Lewis Bowden:You know what? You go, fucking fair enough. But we've gone out on our sword, and we've had a go, and we haven't done what Southgate did, and sit back and shit ourselves. Yeah. So what's the point of having him if he's doing the exact same? Because it's done it in one game, though. But it's the only game that mattered, Calum. I know, I know. One of our biggest ever games. Yes, against a fucking massive rival. We're judging him off one. I get it. Okay, so... We're judging him off one. That's what international management is, though, isn't it? Yeah, let's judge him against Ghana, which didn't matter or Panama now I'm going to judge him he wasn't brought in to beat Panama I know he was brought in to beat Argentina and he's failed can you not understand that I agree I think we should have won the thing I think we should win the tournament he had one job I'm not about winning it we were like I've just said we were literally told when we're 1-0 up in these games we need a manager like a Tuchel who can he's done it with Chelsea he knows tournament football he makes the changes that change the game in a positive way.

1:01:58Lewis Bowden:He'll make better subs. He won't make defensive subs. He won't make us sit back and fucking shit our pants. Look at that. You think Eddie Howe or Lampard or someone like that would have gone for it in a game like that last night? I think they'd have not sat back as much as him and made the changes they made. Especially Eddie Howe. You know when you go into Azteca or somewhere like that or you're playing Argentina at World Champions and they've got shit loads at ground and stuff like that in a World Cup semi-final. You need someone with experience, I think, to manage England with the pressure that's on.

1:02:23I know you're going to say already, I can see you I can see Cogs going in your head you don't have to say oh Spain's manager and he's got no experience I know but it's the context around it that I think when you've got England job especially and I know other media in different countries are going to be like it with them but you need someone who can handle it all like that right but he didn't yeah I agree with you I literally agree that he made mistakes I agree with you but I would keep him he made multiple mistakes mate yesterday he absolutely flapped it for us I just don't think there's anything out there that I would take instead of him that we could realistically get

1:02:53Lewis Bowden:Because, again, you're not listening to my point. I personally don't think at international level... That's your point. I disagree with you. Okay, name one elite manager who's ever won a major tournament. Fair. Bingo. It doesn't happen. Who's to say, we get to this year, we get through to the semi-final, we've beaten Poland and Sweden and all that, and we play Spain or something, we go one year luck and he does the exact same thing again. Yeah. All right, and then who's to say, we get an English manager in that's not as good and we just go out in groups. Who's to say anything? But do you know what?

1:03:23but we've seen people do it I'd rather go out with an English manager

1:03:28Lewis Bowden:like that I'd rather go into something thinking we can win it and I think we can And you haven't thought that the last few tournaments We know Tuchel's going to do that again because he's a manager for how long that's his philosophy or whatever You don't know Howe or Lampard or whatever they're going to do that they might not do it we know Tuchel is going to do it End of day you get one winner of a tournament I'll tell you one thing I know for a fact Eddie Howe or Frank Lampard would have brought Watkins on for Kane yesterday absolutely Frank Lampard he's very good at changing forwards Eddie Howe does it a lot when he's bought a Sula rock he doesn't think Tuchel is then because of one game no I don't think because of winning Champions League with Chelsea we're a side that weren't good enough because of this one game I think Tuchel's a great manager I think Tuchel's a great manager I think he's a better manager than Lampard and Eddie Howe again you're not listening to what I'm saying I don't listen to it I just disagree with you no you're not because I'm not saying that he's not a better manager than them my point is I don't like the fact we've got a foreign manager in charge of the national team.

1:04:24Lewis Bowden:Yeah, but you liked it last week. Do you know what I mean? Again, pre and post tournament, I'm going to be different to during the tournament. I'm going to back them all the way during the tournament and when they win, I'm going to praise them and I don't even like bringing up negatives because I don't think, I think with our platform, it's not good because I think you can sometimes affect people and I don't want to bring a negativity. Now it's done and before the tournament, I wasn't happy with it, but I'll back it, I'll go with it. Now it's been proven to not be any different and I don't want it.

1:04:54Lewis Bowden:I didn't know your thoughts on it before, in fairness. I don't think it should be allowed. I don't think you should be allowed before a manager. Yeah, I agree with that as well. But while ever it is allowed, I think we should go for the best one that's available and I think it's him. I just don't think these managers... Sorry, Al. Thanks for calling in, mate. We'll carry our argument on. My point is, with international management, you don't get enough time with them to instill a type of set style of play unless you're like Spain where you're taught it from the age of four so they just know the patterns of play this and that so you don't get enough time with them so what you can focus on is a harmony and a togetherness I don't think he fully has I think we're kind of riding on the coattails of what Southgate created and formed with the harmony and the fans the connection Tuchel actually has probably done the opposite if anything and I think at club level but we don't know that though we do know that because it's very common knowledge him and Bellingham don't get on Right Right So do you think Southgate and Bellingham got on?

1:05:55I have no idea Of course they did They've got a clue But they all love them They obviously don't want a Germany Right regardless They've got to pin whatever

1:06:02Lewis Bowden:Pitch of the one But Do you not think Lampard Would probably get on with them I really do And in time I want Lampard in time Do you not think they'd want to run Through a big wall for him Absolutely But then at the same time I think they'd hopefully do it For anybody Because they're playing for Fucking England Yeah I'd hope that as well But I'd also hope for Rainbows and sunshines and it's a real world, mate. Unfortunately, people think the way they think and feel the way they feel. Players aren't robots, are they? You see all the... It's like when players down tools to get managers sacked. I think that's a disgrace, but they do it.

1:06:32Lewis Bowden:We know they do it. So we can all sit here and go, oh, they shouldn't do that. And I don't, they'd still fucking give everything, but they don't, are they? We know that for a fact. I'm not saying England have done that, by the way. And especially Bellingham, he'll fucking die for the badge. So I don't think that's actually really affected his performances. anyway but I just I don't know I gave it a go and I let people tell me this is the man no honestly you'll see in these moments he's different to Southgate and he's not he's proven it in the biggest game we've had in probably since 66 in my opinion in English football and we had it there and he threw it away.

1:07:14Lewis Bowden:And that is exactly what he was brought in not to do because he could cope with these big moments and get us over that line because he's this elite manager. So therefore, why are we bothering with this fucking charade of having a German manage the national team? And that's fair enough. Can end on that for me. And there we have it. Get Southgate back. Are you going for it then? Go on then, Carl, you say. I think you've got to try the other one No I'm not having that shit He's having a prediction show, mate I'm not getting paid in all my life Jesus What was your I think it's France-Spain It is France-Spain What other drinks?

1:07:57The Spanish one is a sangria Yeah, sorry, sangria Yeah, and the other one is a French absinthe Oh, you You've actually called that 68 % Smell that from uni that's three on the bats you've got correct God am I

1:08:15Lewis Bowden:yeah you need help send help guys right make sure you like subscribe comment let us know if you think Barnsley are a bigger club than Forest Green Rovers right before we end we've got the poll results of what was a worse yeah what was a worse what did you add what was the worst loss what was the worst loss Argentina or the Italy in 2021 and people have backed Callum it's 40 votes to 30 oh I mean Jesus that's fucking close did you say who voted for what no I haven't so this is purely I don't think that would have changed I don't think it would have I think I think when but also you have to I do think it's close by the way I do think it's very close the Italy one is one I look back at but it's the World Cup but it's the World Cup no no yeah it obviously means more but I think the loss was worse no it weren't because we we still went to penalties we still like I think If we drew that yesterday and went to each time maybe lost right with your penalties I think it would have been like It wouldn't have been as bad.

1:09:16Lewis Bowden:Italy were the one that looked we should have won that. Cal in the 85th minute we were 1-0 up. I know. And we lost. We didn't even draw. As soon as the goal went in you knew it was that. Yeah. No but you said the first goal was coming for half 20 minutes. It was so obvious and they switched off from the corner but anyway right don't matter fuck England. Luckily yeah luckily for us Club football's back soon. Yeah, get in. And we follow a really successful club. So I'm going to be depressed all year. I'm going on holiday. Bye-bye.