AI Faceoffs at the Super Bowl, Bob Iger's Heir Apparent, and WaPo's Brutal Cuts

6:38Kara Swisher:Yeah, I got that from like a dozen people. Who was the last one? Katie Couric? Katie Couric, I think.

6:43Scott Galloway:Oh, yeah, Katie reached out to me.

6:44Kara Swisher:And to be honest, they're right.

6:46Scott Galloway:But my view is I'm a ready-fire-in guy. I'm going to do what I can do. I've got a ton of momentum. And then you do your thing and I'll support you. But the idea of getting on the phone with all of these people to decide whether Netflix should be on the list or not, that's just not my stuff. I know that.

7:01Kara Swisher:I know it. Everyone was like, why do you do that? I'm like, because he doesn't like you. I don't know. He just won't sit in a room with you.

7:07Scott Galloway:No, it's not that I don't like these people. It's like, I would rather take a leadership. No business I have ever started made any sense.

7:13Kara Swisher:Yeah, yeah.

7:14Scott Galloway:And not only that. Do you want to do your own thing?

7:16Kara Swisher:This goes to a deeper spiritual thing.

7:18Scott Galloway:One of the things I don't like about getting older, I used to be more fearless when I was younger. I used to call people I wanted to meet. And I used to approach people. I used to go to crash parties I wasn't invited to. And now I'm just sort of recently heckling from the cheap seats. I have very strong opinions about everything, but I'm doing less. And I want to move back to taking risks and actually doing shit and risking public failure. Because I think that has been, other than being born a white heterosexual male in the 60s and the irrational passion for my well-being of my mother, The reason I am somewhat successful is I've never been afraid of public failure.

7:57Scott Galloway:I've gotten more afraid as I've gotten older. I want to get in the game. I want to get back on the field.

8:03Kara Swisher:Yeah, you've got to get back. Yeah, it's okay. You can leave me. You'll see what happens when you leave me. Anyway, I don't really care. I have other things I can do. I'm leaving you.

8:11Scott Galloway:I still return your angry text messages at 2 a.m.

8:14Kara Swisher:Guess who called me the other night? You, because you wanted to chitty-chat with your favorite person on the planet. I had an edible and I was bored.

8:21Scott Galloway:No one else would talk to me. I had to call someone in Eastern Standard Time because everyone else was asleep.

8:26Kara Swisher:So, no, but we've been sharing, you've been sharing, speaking of looking ridiculous, why were you in a fur coat looking like an unsuccessful pimp for your resistant unsubscribe? That made me laugh my ass off, I have to say, with a hat. Tell me where it's, where are you right now? Give me a quick update, and then we've got a lot to talk about today.

8:45Scott Galloway:So, I like, I think the truth has a nice ring to it. Out of the gates, it was bigger than I expected. that I got to about 100 ,000, 150 ,000 uniques a day. It has leveled off and it's not growing. And I'm not hearing from as many CEOs. I've been doing some research around how do you sustain a movement like this? And one of them was - Join with people because - The whole is great on the sum of its parts. Yeah, yeah. I will take over this island on my own. I'm like one of those Japanese soldiers in the hills of the Philippines 20 years after the war has ended, terrorizing everybody. Yeah. No, but there was a study done out at Kellogg, and it found that it's actually not economic damage.

9:23Scott Galloway:It's public shaming vis-a-vis the media. It's media attention. And so I've been going on CNN once or twice a day. I was on MSN Now. I've been on NPR. I'm about to go on.

9:33Kara Swisher:You need to go on Fox.

9:35Scott Galloway:Yeah, I'm probably going to go on Fox. I mean, I'm like you. This is going to sound arrogant, but it's true. I can get on any network any day of the week. Oh, I know. I get it. And what's interesting, though, is when I do, and I'll come back to the, when I do these crazy, unchained, you know, weird, he's definitely not running for president now videos, they get about five or six hundred thousand to a million views. And when I go on CNN primetime, I get three to four hundred thousand. Yeah. So the power of social is so powerful. And what I find about social is it's a chance to be your spirit animal.

10:09Scott Galloway:And people love that. People love, I went up to, I went up to, you know, my partner's closet. I grabbed a fur coat and a ridiculous hat because I was going to talk about lamb. That's your hat.

10:20Kara Swisher:Stop pretending. It's your hat.

10:22Scott Galloway:What's that?

10:23Kara Swisher:It's your hat and coat, but go ahead.

10:24Scott Galloway:Well, I like to spend$1 ,600 at Kemosabe and Aspen for a hat that I look like Billy the Special Child, who's the latest winner of the Make-A-Wish Foundation in El Paso, Texas.

10:34Kara Swisher:Oh, you look so ridiculous.

10:35Scott Galloway:I look totally fucking ridiculous. Fucking ridiculous.

10:38Kara Swisher:Anyway, where are we going? Very briefly, resist and unsubscribe. We have a lot to talk about today. There's so much going on.

10:44Scott Galloway:So a lot of the organizations that do actually organize, Defiance and Indivisible, I'm coordinating with now. I'm trying to reignite the momentum and I'm going on a bunch of public media and I'm hearing, it is, I mean, granted, I hear from people who are supportive, but I'm hearing from high school kids saying I'm trying to get my entire senior class to unsubscribe from Spotify while you do a Zoom. So I'm trying to, I hate to admit it, but I'm trying to, the worst thing, what's even worse than fighting with your allies is fighting without them.

11:20Kara Swisher:So I'm trying to do a better job of reaching out, which I hate. I know, but you're going to have to, sweetie. You got to. It takes a village.

11:28Scott Galloway:It's kind of leveled out, and I need to reestablish some momentum.

11:34Kara Swisher:It's a good idea. People got excited about your good idea, right? And we'll talk about The Washington Post later, because I've gotten 900 calls about that. People are back to.

11:42Scott Galloway:Well, you know, the Washington Post and journalists are just so fucking precious. You guys should have passed over it.

11:47Kara Swisher:Scott, I need you to stop. 300 people were by yesterday. Trigger! Literally 300 people were by. I'm going to slap you back to last Sunday. But first, let's first stop. We'll get to the Washington Post. And you better collect yourself because I'll slap you. I will. I'll slap you back to last Sunday.

12:00Scott Galloway:Well, that's the dynamic here. I say something stupid and then you say, and then you come in with your warriors of wokeness and everyone's like, I love Carol. I'm on Carissa. I love Carol.

12:08Kara Swisher:It's not warriors of wokeness. 300 people lost their jobs. You could have a little empathy.

12:12Scott Galloway:20 ,000 people lost their jobs at UPS, Kara.

12:15Kara Swisher:Well, so what? You know what? We owe the washroom both. It's a debt of gratitude for the stuff they did for many, many years.

12:20Scott Galloway:It's people whose parents put them through Sarah Lawrence, and they're more precious than everybody else. And we talk about them.

12:24Kara Swisher:They're not more precious. It's still important. It doesn't matter. You don't have to stack rank people in misery.

12:30Scott Galloway:Come on. That's not true. I'm not doing that. But we should talk about it, because I do have some thoughts on it, and I know you have some thoughts on it. We will.

12:36Kara Swisher:We're going to get to it. But first, we're going to talk about Anthropic, something really kind of fun. And it's taking aim at OpenAI and ChatGPT with a series of Super Bowl ads poking fun. It is the perfect satire at recent news that ads are coming to ChatGPT. I want to play one of the anthropic ads, all of which, there's four of them, I think, that feature a young man visiting a therapist to talk about his mom. Let's watch.

12:58Scott Galloway:How do I communicate better with my mom?

13:04Kara Swisher:Great question. Improved communication with your mom can bring you closer. Here are some techniques you can try. Start by listening. Really hear what she's trying to say underneath her words. Build conversation from points of agreement. Find a connection through shared activity. Perhaps a nature walk. Or if the relationship can't be fixed, find emotional connection with other older women on Golden Encounters,

13:31Scott Galloway:the mature dating site that connects sensitive cubs

13:34Kara Swisher:with roaring cougars. What? The tagline appears at the screen at the end that says ads are coming to AI but not to Claude. They struck a nerve with Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI. Sam Post on the X, the ads made him laugh and then went on to share a novella-sized rant, as TechCrunch put it. He argued the campaign was dishonest and misrepresented how ChatGPT would ever use ads. Oh, my God, fuck them if you can't take a joke. I think these ads are brilliant. The way they depict chatbots is perfect. that pause, the smile, the kind of lowest common denominator advice. But these are great branding, as you told me.

14:13Kara Swisher:So tell me, as a Mr. Brands, what do you think about these?

14:16Scott Galloway:This is genius. And this will be seen as the pivotal moment for when in 12 months, Anthropic is more valuable than OpenAI. This is a definition of intelligent branding. And one construct or vehicle for great branding is you ladder the competition. Well, the way you ladder the competition to try and zero in on the soft tissues, You go, we're this, they're this. And then you say, okay, is this point of differentiation truly different? Are we really different this way? Two, does anyone care? Is it relevant? And three, can we own it? Is it sustainable? So in this instance, they said, all right, we're not going to have ads.

14:49Scott Galloway:Is that different? Yes. ChatGPT is having ads. That's truly differentiated. Is it relevant? Yeah, it is relevant because you're providing your most intimate information. There's a memory around AI. and the idea that it's not giving you the best answer, but an answer it can monetize is really uncomfortable for people. And then is it sustainable? Mostly unless open AI, which is a non-zero chance, they might backtrack on this. But basically this is the perfect branding. It's differentiated, it's relevant to consumers and it's sustainable. And the execution here is just gorgeous. It's just beautiful.

15:23Scott Galloway:This occasionally, like when Hyundai came out with their seven-year warranty ad, that changed the complexion of Hyundai. Occasionally, there's an ad campaign that literally changes everything. There are fewer and fewer because people don't take advertising as seriously. They take real-time innovation more seriously. This already is the ad of the Super Bowl. This is going to be the moment when Sam Altman, quite frankly, shit the bed and Dario became the new face of AI. But I believe this will be the pivotal moment with also a focus on enterprise versus the consumer. They're going Dell versus gateway going consumer, or they're going enterprise versus consumer.

16:04Kara Swisher:This is a consumer play because it's all about people asking advice from these things. Let me tell you, one of the things that really struck me, and I don't know how you felt about it, was the tone of voice of these. And one is better than that. I just saw another one and it was perfect.

16:16Scott Galloway:The execution is fantastic. It was a

16:17Kara Swisher:woman talking to her business plan and was offering her whatever, a web, like a web space kind of thing. But the voices and the lack of emotion and the lack of empathy in their voices and yet the robotic nature of people, this is what AI sounds like to people. The shift in the tone,

16:38Scott Galloway:it goes from human to anodyne.

16:39Kara Swisher:It is genius actually.

16:41Scott Galloway:And the thing about -

16:42Kara Swisher:And pauses, the pause until they answer. Because no one would do that, right? Everybody jumps all up. When they talk, they have a normal interaction. But the pause is what got me. It was perfect.

16:55Scott Galloway:Well, the Super Bowl is basically, the ads aren't worth it. Whatever they're charging,$8 million for$30, it's not worth it. The only way it's worth it, and you know if the ad was worth it before the ad ever airs. And then it's how much play is it getting on YouTube. And already, Anthropics ads are worth more than they're spending because everybody's talking about its buzz. Ben Stiller's ad for Instacart is going to be the silver medalist here. It's fucking hilarious. It is.

17:22Kara Swisher:It's with, what's his name?

17:23Scott Galloway:Benson Boom. Yeah, he does flips and everything. Yeah. But basically. Don't do the flip. This has nothing to do with the ad on the Super Bowl. It's about your permission to be evaluated and go viral because you're advertising at the Super Bowl. Yeah. And already Anthropic has gotten a huge, huge return. And also, if you'll notice, Sam Altman is sounding very defensive.

17:45Kara Swisher:Oh, my God. I laughed. But like, you know, he should have said nothing or said that was funny. Those are the only two answers.

17:53Scott Galloway:This was a pivotal turning moment. What do you think?

17:56Kara Swisher:I thought I just loved it. I thought it was perfect. It also was, you know, it really put a finger on what people don't like about AI, right? It really did. Yeah, they're such like, ew, like, oh, like, it's not a person. And it was actually kind of in their brand of we're not those guys, right? Like, you know, also, it didn't say what they were, but it said what they weren't. And I think that and what they aren't is something that's very unattractive to people, right? What they are is attractive. It's like, I want to use this AI, but I don't want that. Like, that's what I thought was effective there.

18:34Kara Swisher:It was, anyway, good job, Claude, and Anthropic. It really is. And Sam really should have just said that was really funny. Loved it.

18:42Scott Galloway:But what's more uncomfortable about this is the following. The number one use case, do you know what it is? Mm-mm. Therapy. Mm-mm. So imagine you're giving someone the most intimate details about your life, and then the AI decides where to insert an ad. I'm getting served all of these ring light therapists that are quote-unquote mental health professionals telling everyone, you don't need a job, you don't need a relationship, you need to work on yourself first. Yeah, that's helpful. Anyways, they imagine, I heard one of these ring-like therapists recommending a dating site. And I thought, is this person being compensated by this dating site?

19:23Scott Galloway:Imagine sitting down and talking to a therapist and giving them your most intimate details. And they say, oh, you should absolutely go on Lexapro. And by the way, I'm sponsored by Eli Lilly or whatever.

19:34Kara Swisher:Although doctors are, aren't they? I mean, that's a tale as old as time. Anyway.

19:38Scott Galloway:But people are using AI as a more trusted doctor than their doctor. It is. People are going to AI. Yeah.

19:45Kara Swisher:I mean, doctors get all those gimmies from pharmacy people. You know that. Like there's a whole.

19:50Scott Galloway:And by the way, that's been seriously pulled back and regulated as it should. I used to get invited to these dinners to speak about back when I was running a brand strategy. Sky Rizzy. I used to get invited to these dinners with neurosurgeons sponsored by Sandoz or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And they've pulled back on that a lot. Yeah, they should. But if you're giving AI the most intimate – if you're saying to AI, okay, I have prostate cancer, my Gleason scores are this, and I don't know whether I should have my prostate removed or if I should just continue therapy, low-fat diet, the idea that the AI might be trying to figure out what add to insert at that moment?

20:29Kara Swisher:Yeah. It has a very Facebook-y feel to it, I'll tell you that.

20:33Scott Galloway:With Google, you expect it. Right. With Facebook, you expect it. But right now, everyone's under the impression that the AI is their friend and trying to help them.

20:40Kara Swisher:Absolutely. All right. Moving from that, let's run through a rapid-fire update on all the Epstein news that's happened since we talked. I mean, seriously, this is just first, let's listen to what President Trump had to say to CNN's Caitlin Collins when asked about Epstein's victims. This was something else. And then J.D. Vance followed up with a really even worse version of it. But let's listen.

21:00Scott Galloway:What did you say? Go ahead, Janet.

21:01Kara Swisher:What would you say to the survivors who feel like they've even gotten justice?

21:04Scott Galloway:You are the worst reporter. No one to see. CNN has no ratings because of people like you. You know, she's a young woman. I don't think I've ever seen you smile. I've known you for 10 years. I don't think I've ever seen a smile.

21:16Kara Swisher:Well, I'm asking you about survivors of Jeffrey Epstein, Mr. President. Because you know you're not telling the truth. That was something. Let me say, I think the reason she got under her skin is because what she was talking about was the survivors of Donald Trump. You know what I mean?

21:31Scott Galloway:You mean that he's mentioned 5 ,700 times? Yes, exactly.

21:34Kara Swisher:I think he knows. deep in his incredibly narcissistic denial personality. He knows, right? And so he knows what happened. These people know what happened. And so, you know, it's typical old man says, I've never seen you smile. Women have that happen to them all the time. Smile, sweetheart. Yeah, you should smile more. You should put Kara Swisher on the back of your thing and say thank you. But that was really something. And then what was incredible is that J.D. has followed it in a really ridiculous interview with Megyn Kelly in which he said, Well, he just wants her to have fun, you know. Oh, my God.

22:07Kara Swisher:He's the cringiest cringe. He just takes something that's bad and makes it worse, which is really hard to do in this situation.

22:14Scott Galloway:I thought, I see. It's funny. I had a different reaction there. I kind of expected it from Jay. What I thought was especially heinous was Megyn Kelly defending. The president referenced her menstrual cycle. There's got to be a line where as someone has a certain level, and I go back, you know, not just men. Everyone should have a code and lines. you know, the key isn't to be likable. Everyone deserves boundaries in a relationship and boundaries around the behavior they will accept and not accept. When the president insulted the looks of Senator Cruz's wife, that should have been a red line and it should be like, I'm never supporting you ever again.

22:49Scott Galloway:And when the president referenced Megyn Kelly's menstrual cycle, that should have been a line where she would, I would think for the rest of her career go, this guy has a problem when it comes to women. And I was texting this morning with Molly John fast. And the thing I've been trying to wrap my hands around, I want to get to your viewpoint here around the Epstein files. And the problem is, or I see the biggest problem is that what we need is a thick layer of an institution that we trust. And that used to be the Department of Justice to go through in the FBI, these, these 3 million pages and say, okay, our job is to use discretion in the rule of law to parse what is illegal criminal behavior that deserves public attention and what does not deserve public attention, like being on an invite list to a party in St.

23:36Scott Galloway:Barts that Jeffrey Epstein was going to. Because right now we're over punishing shit that is trivial and superfluous and we're under punishing child rape. Everything has been mushed together. And because we don't trust an institution to go through this and say, this is criminal activity and warrants public scrutiny and legal scrutiny. And quite frankly, folks, we're not even going to release this shit because all it does is impugn people for no reason. But the problem is there's no arbiter, there's no institution that traditionally we've had trust in that we're comfortable with doing it. So everyone's like, release the files.

24:15Scott Galloway:They release all three million. I don't even know if this is helping right now.

24:18Kara Swisher:No, there's more. They've released half. They've released half. What are your thoughts? I just, he's a pig. I'm sorry. He's just an old man pig. And J.D. Vance made it worse. And Megyn Kelly, forget it. She's a fluffer to all of them, and she's going to put this on her show. So, hey, Megan, good to give you content. You'll attack me and not Scott, who's appropriately critical of you, but that's fine. Whatever you want, girl.

24:38Scott Galloway:I've been on Megan's show. Have you been on her show? No, of course not.

24:41Kara Swisher:Why would I? Why would I soil myself? I don't get it, though.

24:43Scott Galloway:I think she's very talented.

24:45Kara Swisher:She has turned into something else, Scott. You're not paying attention to it.

24:47Scott Galloway:No, no, no, no. Don't interrupt my sentence to screw points with your woke warrior.

24:52Kara Swisher:What I was going to say— What is with you with the woke warrior? Did something happen to you? Hey, let me finish.

24:57Scott Galloway:Is that I registered that she, like Candace Owens, has literally gone off the fucking deep end. Yeah. And I can't figure out if it's because the algorithms love rage bait, so they get more money every time they say something incendiary, or they have literally gone insane. Like, they haven't taken a red pill. They've swallowed, like, you know, a red cyanide pill. But I would argue over the last few years, Megan has gone very, very conspiracy theory and has decided the more insane, incendiary shit I say, is it that she's making money or has she seriously lost her shit?

25:34Kara Swisher:Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, I don't care. She's just one of those people I've decided to put in the trash bin of my whatever. She can say whatever she wants about me. If I provide good content to her, knock yourself out, girl. Anyway, next up, Bill and Hillary Clinton have agreed to be deposed on camera at public hearings in the Epstein investigation. When I interviewed Ro Khanna, he said they absolutely should. I agree. So should President Trump. They should also bring him in. They should bring all these people in. But they're having them. And Hillary did this morning was like, bring it on.

26:05Kara Swisher:I'm a little scared for the Republicans, honestly. And she wants cameras there. She's like, so obviously she's got something up her sleeve. And I wouldn't, I don't, I think this woman has run out of fucks after being like whacked her. I mean, some of it is her fault, but boy, have they just, she's loaded for bear, I would say, is my feeling. And they could throw them, they could, she's going to talk about Trump the whole time. That's what she's going to do.

26:30Scott Galloway:It's funny, going back to my brand strategy course, I do people as brands. And I look at them as brands and break down their core attributes. And I did the Clintons. And I did Bill and Hillary. And they both, especially Bill, but they're brand attributes that are so powerful. First off, Bill has Oprah-like empathy. I generally get the sense, when I met Bill Clinton, I thought, this guy cares about me, I'm going to support him the rest of my life. You get the sense he genuinely cares. And it comes across as so genuine, it's hard to believe it's not genuine. Anyways, the second thing is, you would never want the Clintons on the other side of anything you're doing.

27:08Scott Galloway:These people are ruthless and smart. I don't care if you're picking players for a softball team. If these people had no athletic ability, I would still want them on my team because they would figure out a way to kneecap the second baseman.

27:20Kara Swisher:Throw a – I think she's good at – I think she's good at –

27:23Scott Galloway:I can't wait for this. And if I were the Trump administration, the last fucking thing I would want is cameras on a very well-prepared, 155 fucking IQ, Secretary Clinton. Because she is –

27:37Kara Swisher:Did you see Trump said, I like Bill Clinton? Like he was trying –

27:41Scott Galloway:All of a sudden, he's trying to be like, they're pretty good people.

27:44Kara Swisher:Then they shouldn't have to undergo this.

27:45Scott Galloway:I'm sorry. Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton are testifying? Could the Trump administration be more stupid? And you're going to have a bunch of—trust me, there's going to be three or four moments where some idiot staffer has given a bigger idiot Republican a stupid question. and you are going to see one of the Clintons slap them back so silly. I can't, I literally can't. I'm not going to watch this. This is my Super Bowl. I can't wait for this. Only person I've ever knocked on doors for.

28:22Kara Swisher:Yeah, anyway, let's get through the last two. Melinda French Gates, another smart cookie, said references to her ex-husband and filled her with unbelievable sadness that he, along with others, needed to answer the question that remained. Gates himself apologized yet again, but I thought Melinda Gates handled herself with so much class, given she keeps getting asked about the behavior of her ex-husband. I would hate that. I would hate that. I thought she handled it well. And let me add into that, you can pick either one. CBS is pulling a 60-minute segment with longevity guru Peter Atiyah. But the network's news editor, Chief Barry Weiss, is reporting refusing to fire him a contributor.

28:57Kara Swisher:I'll weigh in very quickly here. I've heard from a lot of Paramount people, they really want him gone. And they should because you can easily replace him with someone like Scott Galloway, for example, who knows all about that. He's, you know, Scott could actually do a good job.

29:10Scott Galloway:You're the longevity person now.

29:11Kara Swisher:Yeah, I'm the longevity person. I'm using it for marketing. I'm like, great, keep this, like, keep this Epstein-soiled person who already a lot of people think is a bit of a grifter on there. And plus she's added Andrew Hooperman. I know you like him. And Mark Hyman, who is really, I'm sorry, it's just cod swallow a lot of the stuff. He blah-blahs about. Anyway, either one. Melinda or?

29:36Scott Galloway:Yeah, but, okay. So I think Melinda French Gates joins a crew of women, and this is sexist, who seem to have a different approach to how they acquit themselves when they become billionaires. And that is they're more focused on philanthropy. They demonstrate grace. They demonstrate empathy, focused on their kids. and they have just, I mean, I've told you this, kind of one of my personal heroes is Mackenzie Scott. Yeah, Mackenzie Scott. The approach she takes to her life and giving versus the other half of the marriage, it's just, there's something about the female brain, and this is sexist because I'm distinguishing between the sexist.

30:15Kara Swisher:It's actually true.

30:15Scott Galloway:And by the way, let me be clear. Let me piss off women. I think men, oftentimes the male brain, because of testosterone and more risk aggressiveness, sometimes, more than often, make outstanding entrepreneurs. And I think that male aggression has put us on the moon and discovered vaccines. So let me give some credit that is also disparaging or people are going to take it as a hate crime against women. When they become billionaires, it appears that the female brain is much more about how do I help others versus how can I have the most fucking fabulous life with, you know, in Aspen. There does seem to be a real distinct difference between these divorces and how the female side of the equation acquits themselves versus the male equation.

30:58Kara Swisher:I would say Sergey Brin and Ann Wojcicki is another example of that. They're everywhere. Look at these examples everywhere. She got dragged to Epstein Island by him too.

31:06Scott Galloway:Look at all these examples everywhere. And then also, though, and I think we're going to disagree on this, but I want to, I think Dr. Peter Atiyah is a fucking distraction here. Let his colleagues, let his podcast listeners, let his podcast network, as far as I can tell, he did not commit a crime. He just comes across as a creep. No, of course not. We don't think that. Hold on. There is credible evidence that the president of the United States, who has been mentioned 5 ,700 times, may have engaged in child rape. So I could give a flying fuck about a longevity doctor and the creepy emails he sends.

31:40Scott Galloway:This is about criminal activity amongst our cabinet and our president, not creepy emails from a wellness doctor. So I don't.

31:51Kara Swisher:I get your point. I get your point. And I'm going to say yes. But do we have, again, as I said before, do we have to stack rank these things? I mean, you can say, and I agree with you, I repeat it. One's about indictments.

32:03Scott Galloway:The other's about who cares.

32:04Kara Swisher:We should be focused on criminally indicting the people who have abused young women or young women, not women, young girls. Girls. Children. Let's just go right to children. I'm not speaking of Megyn Kelly trying to figure out which age is okay. None of them.

32:20Scott Galloway:The 15-year-old, they're 15, they look like they're 18, so it's okay.

32:24Kara Swisher:They're wearing, you know, extensions, you know, like, oh my God. Like, so I agree with you on that. That said, it's okay to say, ew, to, like, Howard Ludnick, yuck, what a liar about his affiliations with things. It's okay to say, wow, Peter Adia, what a creepy dude. It's okay to do that also. That's all. I just don't think you have to, like—

32:48Scott Galloway:There should be a DOJ releasing to the public information and to grand juries, again, on diamonds, on criminal behavior. And quite frankly, they should not be releasing. Kevin Warsh or whatever his name is, it comes out. He's in the Epstein files because he was on an invite list. Yes. If we had institutions we could still trust that aren't perverted by the president's total overrun of a co-equal branch of government, you could have an FBI and a DOJ that would say, here's the information we're releasing because it's pertinent. and here's the information we're not releasing because all it does is create distraction and dilution of the real criminals here.

33:23Kara Swisher:But the guy who was head of Paul Weiss, who acquiesced very early to the Trumps, he had to step down because of his, I mean, I'm just saying, there are devils. I agree with you. I think we are actually agreed on this. But I just would note that Peter Atiyah wrote, the worst thing about being friends with Epstein was that he couldn't tell a soul about the financier's outrageous life. I wouldn't want to work with this fucker.

33:41Scott Galloway:If AI went through every email you sent, Could they find shit that makes you look really bad?

33:46Kara Swisher:Not like this. No. Not even close. No. No.

33:50Scott Galloway:Yeah. That's probably true. No.

33:51Kara Swisher:And not you either, by the way. I agree.

33:53Scott Galloway:I don't think so either.

33:54Kara Swisher:Come on. Like, it's mostly you, like, yelling at me. Really, that's what happens, people. Anyway. Oh, yeah.

34:00Scott Galloway:Me yelling at you. I think you got your pronouns off there, or whatever we're calling. Me yelling at you. You put whatever picture you want on the back. At 2 a.m. So you can make a score. You need to apologize to so-and-so. No, no, no. And Cheryl, you're being unfair to Cheryl Samberg. You know what?

34:16Kara Swisher:We had a lovely chat last night. Scott and I did, just so you know.

34:20Scott Galloway:We spoke last night?

34:22Kara Swisher:Two nights ago. Last night, two nights ago. Anyway, we had a lovely time. No, I went out last night with my lovely wife. Okay, let's go on a quick break. We come back. Alphabet earnings, really interesting.

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35:37Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back. On to some earnings. Alphabet beat earnings and revenue expectations with a net income up almost 30 % from the year prior. Well done, Sundar. The company expects 2026 CapEx spend to be, this is incredible,$165 and$175 billion, which could be more than double 2025 spending. And obviously all in AI. Shares are down 5 % in the last couple of days because of the time of the taping. What do you think of these Alphabet earnings? Because you've been focused on the Google, the owner of Google.

36:06Scott Galloway:Alphabet was my stock pick for 2025. This is nothing short of staggering. Annual revenues at$400 billion right now. YouTube revenue up 9%. Google Cloud up 48%, Cara. Oh, and by the way, OpenAI was supposedly going to kill Google Search. Search is up 17%. Didn't happen. Google Services revenue up 14%. They finally moved fast. The market was a little spooked by their CapEx expenditure. In this case, it's a feature, not a bug, because they have the money to do it. And you want to talk about a comeback story for the ages? Back in 2022, the market decided that search had an existential threat with ChatGPT, and the stock was off 40%.

36:46Scott Galloway:And guess where the stock is now since it hit that low? It's up fourfold. And since the quarter that ChatGPT was released, Google search revenues are up 48%. They get about 90 to 95 times the number of queries as ChatGPT. And the thing I took away from these earnings were two things. One, staggering. And two, I think open AI is fucked. They're getting attacked from the side by Anthropic with incredible positioning, highlighting their soft tissue around advertising. They're getting attacked from above by Alphabet, which has more probably IP and a firehose of two billion people a day to point at their own AI platforms.

37:28Scott Galloway:And they're getting attacked from below by these open-weight LLMs out of China. I saw this and I'm like, Jesus Christ, this company is on fire and well-managed. And then I thought, there is no, I think we have seen the peak of OpenAI's valuation. They're supposedly raising money at 850. I think that'll be the high water mark.

37:48Kara Swisher:All right. Oh, cool. Interesting. Now on to Disney, the company topped earnings and revenue expectations with experienced department reporting over$10 billion in quarterly revenue for the first time. That's the parks. Overall revenue for the entertainment segment of the company was up 7 % year over year. Not bad, but he made another big announcement, the CEO, Bob Iger. Josh DeMauro will replace him. He has been at Disney for 28 years and most recently served as chairman of Disney Experiences, which makes it roughly 60 % of the profit last year. The company also promoted top television executive, Dana Walton, to president and chief creative officer.

38:21Kara Swisher:I mean, She gets the consolation prize, I guess. Once again, Scott, Kara was right. Let's listen to who I predicted Disney would choose in the October of 2024. Any idea who's going to be the next Bob Iger? Probably be someone internally. I'm guessing either Josh or Dana Walden. It just seemed like it's hard to run a company like Disney if you haven't been there 103 years. So we asked our friend and founding partner, Puck, Bill Cohen, for his thoughts on the transition. Let's just quickly listen to him. What do you have to say?

38:55Scott Galloway:In many ways, it was the inevitable choice. In some ways, it was the most ironic choice. I say the ironic choice because, of course, Bob Chapek ran the Parks and Events division of Disney when Bob Iger selected him. to be his first successor, and we all know that that did not work out at all. And now he's got DeMauro as his successor, also from the Parks division. And I say the inevitable choice because, look, let's face it, that's the division that's been hitting it out of the ballpark for the last few years. He's been monetizing the Disney IP beautifully. They were also very smart in keeping the people around at Disney who have the skills that he doesn't have, including Dana Walden promoting her, Alan Bergman, Jimmy Pataro running ESPN.

39:59Scott Galloway:And so he's got a good cast around him. If DeMauro can keep up what he's done in the parks and department and increase the Disney stock price, which, of course, is what everybody wants him to do because it's floundered for the last couple of years, he'll be a success. If he can't do those things, and it's a big question mark still, he may go the way of Bob Chappick.

40:26Kara Swisher:It's Chappick, actually. But this is really interesting. I thought that was really smart. I mean, it's still, Scott and I both think this company's going to get bought for some reason. Right? Correct? Are we still on that train?

40:39Scott Galloway:If it doesn't get bought, it's inviting an activist. They'll give the new CEO a 24-month honeymoon period. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone is aggregating stock right now because if you look at the 10-year returns of the S &P, it's almost quadrupled. Disney, it's flat. and bob iger is the guy who decided after a successful tour of vietnam to go back and basically has had his legs blown off i mean the one of the worst decisions in history in corporate history personally was for bob iger to decide to shoot his successor and come back in like he was macarthur he wasn't he anyways um this company will have an overhang on it until they do the following.

41:21Scott Galloway:This should be good bank, bad bank. It should be, if you will, it should be the streaming service, the studio, and the parks. They feed each other IP. There's synergy and there's flywheels. And then they've got to get rid of ESPN, ABC, Cable Networks, FX, Freeform, Disney Channel, Nat Geo, because these things are just an anchor. The linear businesses are just awful, but the experiences, the parks and cruises and streaming are growing and getting profitable. And when you have a conglomerate like this, what the market does is they find the shittiest business, which is the linear business, and they assign that multiple to the entire company.

42:00Scott Galloway:So Disney is probably, in my view, is one of the few values or good buys out there right now, because it has unmatched IP. The parks business, assuming that the tariffs are reversed and people start coming back to the U.S. at some point is singular. I don't care what anyone thinks. If you don't take your kids and spend$1 ,400 a night in a shitty hotel three or four times before the age of 10, they call child services on you. They have a monopoly on children. Not just that.

42:28Kara Swisher:Not just that. It's toys. Frozen.

42:30Scott Galloway:You have to have Disney+.

42:31Kara Swisher:They still haven't been like, you know, like, I don't think they don't have Cocomelon. I think that's over at Netflix. They still haven't caught on to some trends. That's my worry for them is they've got a lot of old trends, right? of a lot of old stuff, like K-pop Demon Hunters, for example, that was Netflix again. And some of the other ones that are very popular with kids, the more cutting edge ones, they don't seem to be on top of them. So I would imagine that Dana and there has to really focus on that. Like, what is hot? Like, they have the traditionals and Frozen 2 and, I mean, 3 and 4 coming out, which, of course, we have to see and then we'll have all the things.

43:09Kara Swisher:But, you know, they've missed a lot of turns on the newest kind of viral phenomenas that are very lasting, too, right? And so that would be my thing. But content isn't the point. It's the parks. It's the streaming. It's the IP. And what do you do with that? And so to me, they have to really understand, maybe have a little more of a range in IP or something like that, as they're doing over at Netflix and other places. They could be a little more innovative. But you're right. It has to be spun off. I've let Jimmy Bidaro run all of those. I've known him for a long time from Yahoo and very smart executive.

43:43Scott Galloway:Their experiences division in Q1 reported three times the operating income as the entertainment division. The entertainment division, the crown jewel there, the streaming services are actually getting some leverage. Their operating income was up 72%. So if you have this unbelievable singular business with enormous moats called the experiences division, and you have the studios which create IP for your streaming services, which is getting momentum. And right now, you know, Netflix is Walmart and Disney is LVMH in the sense that Disney has a singular positioning around family that will be very strong for a long time at command margin.

44:17Scott Galloway:Those two growth companies together. And then you shed the problem child, the linear networks, this company immediately. They could, I said this last year, I think they could sell, and they won't do this, ESPN, ABC, Entertainment Global Networks, FX, all that shit, Nat Geo. I think they could sell it for a dollar and the company would be worth more in six months. Because it's an enormous overhang on them. It is. Even though it makes a lot of profit. Every analyst reports has the following. Good, good, great, good. But there's always a but. And that is these huge cable companies. And by the way, that company, that Babic.

44:55Kara Swisher:Why hasn't Eider just done it before he leaves?

44:58Scott Galloway:I think he wanted a bigger number. He put a for sale sign on these things 24 months ago. He did. But private equity, and now it's like whatever the one is from Comcast, someone is going to consolidate these things. And by the way, that'll probably be a good stock because someone will come in and start cutting costs faster than revenue declines. And people usually overestimate the speed of revenue declines. That'll be a good business. It'll be a totally different business.

45:24Kara Swisher:There's going to be a lot of activity because, look, if Paramount doesn't get Warner, that's going to be someone on the lookout. out. You've got Comcast sort of waiting in the wings. I went to an Olympic party last night. Boy, they have a great month coming up. They've got the Super Bowl, they've got the Olympics, and they've got the NBA something or other. They're calling it legendary February. You know, they've got to do something. So there's going to be a lot of activity here. And you're right, the spinoff of ABC provides an opportunity for any of these players going forward. Anyway, let's go on a quick break.

45:54Kara Swisher:When we come back, we're going to talk about the Washington Post layoffs, and I'm going to get some advice from Scott Galloway.

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47:59Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back with more news. The Washington Post has laid off about 30 % of its employees. The cuts impact both business and newsroom roles, including over 300. There are roughly 800 journalists. Interestingly, I looked at old memos. Bezos had added up to 1 ,000. He really grew it, and now he's ungrowing it. In all sections, the company had been impacted with a focus on sports, local news, and international coverage. Executive editor Matt Murray told the staff the company had lost too much money for too long. It will now be focused on national news and politics, business, and health. Maybe they can hire Peter or Tia.

48:30Kara Swisher:I want you not to say people are precious right now. I want to talk about this because I've gotten dozens. You know, I had been interested in looking at figuring out a way to buy it. I've gotten lots of calls this week from both employees, very wealthy people, people who are civically minded here in Washington, rich people. What do you think is going to happen here? I mean, let me just very briefly, since I worked there again, I started in the mailroom. The way they did this, Bezos hasn't said a word. The CEO didn't talk to any employees, hasn't been seen since they did this. They handed the bag to Matt Murray to deal with it, which to me was just cowardly.

49:06Kara Swisher:You know, I put on threads, Bezos has twice the muscle and he's half the man from when I met him. But, and that was a personal insult. I meant it in a really very significant way. What do you do with this? What do you do? And what do I when I get all these calls? Like I'm doing great with the podcast, although apparently you're leaving me. And I'm not. I'm just banging Belarusian horrors. It's fine. I don't care.

49:31Scott Galloway:Consensual. By the way, who's real quick? Who would have thought Hunter Biden would come across as so wholesome? All these prostitutes are on TikTok saying he was respectful. I can see it. They're all like he likes crack and having sex with grown women. And he looks wholesome right now.

49:48Kara Swisher:He does.

49:48Scott Galloway:He's not in the Epstein files. Not surprised. He's nowhere in the Epstein files.

49:51Kara Swisher:I have to say, yeah, I agree.

49:53Scott Galloway:He looks like Richard Thomas from the Waltons right now.

49:56Kara Swisher:Who else did I text? Maybe Gavin Newsom. I'm like, how did you not get in the Epstein? Anyway, tell me what to do here. Tell me what you think. Obviously, let me just tell you. Thanks, Jeff. Really, the economics have changed. Everybody knows this. Stop lecturing us on things they know. They definitely had to cut costs. If I took it over, I'd cut costs. Not in this nasty, prickish way while I'm appearing with Pete Hegseth, looking like I've had way too much Botox. And I would say something to them if I was doing this, given how rich I am. And I certainly could afford it. I don't mean to say he has to lose money.

50:31Kara Swisher:But boy, the look is so bad. It's such a bad look. Him swanning around Paris while he's done this and then not even speaking to them. The whole thing just stinks, the way he handled this. Really good people who will find jobs at some point. But it's a lot of people in the market all at once. So what to do here without insulting journalism?

50:51Scott Galloway:Go ahead. Okay, so this is Kara Swisher calling me at 11 p.m. or midnight asking my advice around the Washington Post and if and how you should get involved. Is that accurate?

51:00Kara Swisher:Yes, correct. Perfect.

51:01Scott Galloway:Okay. First thing I say is, hold on a second. I got to take my dogs out to pee because I just took edibles and I'll forget. And if they pee on the stone, I'm going to be in a world of hurt. That's the first thing I say. All right.

51:11Kara Swisher:So now you're back.

51:12Scott Galloway:I take the dogs on a walk and I think about it. This is what I would say to you. Don't touch this thing with a fucking 10-foot pole. Because here's the bottom line. First off, Jeff Bezos has made a terrible personal brand error by not doing the following. He should have said, I have incredible reverence for journalism, for free speech. I bought this because I think it plays an important role in our society. It has come to my attention or I have decided I'm just not the right owner. And he should have sold it to Bloomberg or some other billionaire two years ago. And they would have had a going away party for him.

51:45And he should have wrapped himself in the importance of great journalism.

51:51Scott Galloway:And there are – what's so sad right now about The Washington Post is from, I would call it kind of 2018 to 2023, they were on an upslope. I started reading The Washington Post. I subscribed to it for its business news. I thought they did a really good job of business coverage. Talented journalists, an important – Good stories. Yeah, an important American asset. And he should have gone out. Instead, he looks like someone who is purposefully trying to disassemble it limb by limb. Now, the reason you should not get near this, Kara, is because if you were worth$10 billion and willing to allocate$2 or$3 billion over the next 20 or 20 years, I'd say have at it.

52:33Scott Galloway:Have at it. It's philanthropy. Because here's the bottom line. In an era of social media where two-thirds of news is now garnered off of social media where they don't have to pay for content, long-form, thoughtful, fact-checked investigative journalism is a shitty business. And also, let me be clear, the few newsrooms I have been in, and I've been in some important ones, there's a general expectance and entitlement that, oh, you're some rich person and you're funding my very important civic duty. And I find there's a lack of recognition of the fact this is a private company that needs to figure out a way to make money.

53:11Kara Swisher:I think that's been starched out of them. But go ahead. I agree with you.

53:15Scott Galloway:I still think they find themselves especially precious and that billionaires owe them a living.

53:19Kara Swisher:I don't think that.

53:20Scott Galloway:And there may be billionaires who see an opportunity here to – if you could find a billionaire backer who said, this is so important, and there are amazing journalists, it's an important asset. We have fewer and fewer of these assets that actually do the work and people trust. This plays an important role in society. I'm hoping that someone pops up and says, I'm putting together an advisory board of 12 amazing journalists, business people that will be the oversight board. Other than writing a check for$200 million to subsidize this thing every year, I'm not going to be involved because I see the importance.

53:59Scott Galloway:The same way someone writes a$100 or$200 million check to their favorite, to PETA or to Planned Parenthood or to whatever it might be, PBA, whatever their philanthropy, the NAACP, this has become a philanthropy. And I say that in the best of terms and that is it has a social good. But as a capitalist endeavor, this shit just doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately, if you got involved without having billions of dollars to throw at the problem, you would get all of the frustration with none of the credit or the appreciation, regardless of your skills in journalism. So unless you're willing to partner, unless you can find a billionaire who says, okay, I'm going to take your guidance around an advisory board.

54:45Scott Galloway:We're going to run this thoughtfully. We are going to impose some discipline on it. But we're willing to lose$100 million to$200 million a year. It's just going to be good money after bad and more frustration.

54:56Kara Swisher:There's no restructuring of this from your perspective. I mean, it doesn't have to be what it is, right? You and I have both started businesses and quite successful ones.

55:05Scott Galloway:Unless you're going to milk it, there's no business here. There's no for-profit business here.

55:09Kara Swisher:Right. This shit's expensive. That's what I'm saying. What else could you imagine it being?

55:13Scott Galloway:I think the Washington Post.

55:14Kara Swisher:Look at what's the one in London where you live, the Guardian, right? Right. Right.

55:19Scott Galloway:I think in order to get profits, you have to engage in rage baiting and A-B testing and a lack of fact checking and not – the New York Times has done everything right in my view in terms of investing early in innovation and technology. And it's still a small shitty business. Only fans will do more revenue than the New York Times this year.

55:39Kara Swisher:Absolutely.

55:40Scott Galloway:So what do you do? Of course you invest in digital. Of course you have more subscription programs. But the only business strategy here is the following. You have to find a deep-pocketed billionaire who says, this is such an important asset. It has such positive externalities for our society that it's worth me cutting a check for$100 to$200 million a year. But the notion that someone's going to come in and reinvent the Washington Post with new subscriptions and new ideas, no, it's not going to happen.

56:09Kara Swisher:I don't think that. Let me tell you, I think there is, I agree with you. It's not a big money, and you're right. The New York Times is incredibly successful and is a very small business. I wouldn't say it's a shitty business. It's a small business, right? It's not, sorry, Meredith, but it is. It's small. But she's done a great job with her small business. Unbelievable. And it's profitable, which is great. I wonder if you could do that here and have a similar juxtaposition, because the Post has always been the sort of the Jan to Marsha at the New York Times, right? But I like Jan.

56:40Scott Galloway:Pretty distant second. I know. It is. Pretty distant second.

56:55Kara Swisher:But I always think, like, if I was handed ZBS, I'm like, I don't know what to do here. Like, I wouldn't. The Post, I'm like, well, what if we tried that? Like, it feels like there is some opportunity here. And I don't mean to make a lot of money. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about making something that is sustainable, useful, profitable enough, right? So that, and serves an enormous, profitable in terms of society, right? in helping society and helping really good journalists do what they do best and get out of their way. That's my feel.

57:29Scott Galloway:There is no way you can maintain the quality of journalism and the fact-checking and the investigative reporting unless you have someone who recognizes the public good outweighs the profit motive here. And we keep finding new people who think that they can have both. And the reality is, if you want to give people bodily autonomy and have Planned Parenthood in Mississippi, you're going to lose money. I mean, this is a public good. It plays an important role. And I pray I can't for the life of me figure out why Bezos didn't find. This is the bottom line, Republican billionaires by football teams, Democratic billionaires by media companies.

58:08Scott Galloway:Except now that he turned into whatever he turned into. Why didn't he call Michael Bloomberg and say, Michael, you already have a newsroom. take this off my hands for a dollar. And Bloomberg, whatever you think of Michael Bloomberg, he's a hero of mine.

58:21Kara Swisher:Yeah, I like him.

58:23Scott Galloway:I think he cares about democracy. I think he really appreciates journalism. He tries to hit it down the middle. I think he would do a great job with the Post.

58:30Kara Swisher:And he's not so insecure as Jeff Bezos.

58:32Scott Galloway:And at some point, one of these 30 or 40-something crypto or tech billionaires is going to pop up. Matthew Prince from Cloudflare just pulled out of my ass. He strikes me as a really thoughtful guy, a really nice man. I'm like, is your legacy going to be a cloud-based company or is it going to be maybe saying journalism is important? I'm going to take a billion dollars and over the next decade, I'm going to make sure that The Washington Post continues to have no fear or no favor around D.C. politics or it's a consortium of them. But the first meeting has to be, the first meeting has to be, stop the fucking consensual hallucination.

59:13Scott Galloway:We're going to lose$100 million a year. Yeah, I agree.

59:15Kara Swisher:I agree. And on a personal level, I have to say when I was talking to someone this morning, I was very much like, I was like, you know, I'm making a ton of money and I get to do what I want. And it's easy. It's not easy. It's just pleasurable.

59:26Scott Galloway:Oh, Kara, I'm telling you, if I were advising you personally, I'd be like, don't get fucking near this. Look at your life right now. You're having an impact. You're making a shit ton of money. You got young kids at home and you want to be up late at night talking to the editor of something saying why he's pissed off at you because you went from 11 people to not. You don't need this shit at this point in your life.

59:44Kara Swisher:Anyway, I do say, let me just tell you, please give to their guild. They got laid off. These are people who've done an amazing public service. And I gave a substantive amount of money for me to them. I'm sorry.

59:57Scott Galloway:I'm going to piss off everyone. Why are we giving money to people laid off?

1:00:00Kara Swisher:I do that with lots of layoffs, my friend. You don't know that.

1:00:02Scott Galloway:Did you do it with the 12 ,000 people laid off at Amazon last week?

1:00:06Kara Swisher:If there's a fund, I'd be happy to give to it. Absolutely. I do. I do. I'm sorry I do that a lot. You don't know that. It's a quiet little thing I do. Anyway, I will. If there's a fund for Amazon, please let me know, and I will be happy to give to it.

1:00:19Scott Galloway:No, you won't. You're not going to give money to people laid off at Amazon corporate.

1:00:23Kara Swisher:You're wrong. You're wrong. Just because you're a greedy fuck doesn't mean I am. I give a lot more money.

1:00:27Scott Galloway:You really think greedy fuck is the right descriptor of me? I don't think that.

1:00:30Kara Swisher:I think you give a lot. I think you're very generous. I'm just.

1:00:32Scott Galloway:Anyways, I would like to know what the severance is. I'll give you an example. This cupcake thing called Sprinkles, the female founder came on and said, this is not what my legacy wanted to be. She sold the private equity and she gave people one day's notice when they all got fired. Those people should be publicly shamed like crazy. I would like to know what the severance is for these 300 people, but there are massive layoffs everywhere.

1:00:56Kara Swisher:I agree. And also those people – Again, you're stack ranking. You don't have to stack rank. Those people who are being laid off, this is going to sound weird.

1:01:04Scott Galloway:In some ways, they're going to be better off. The Washington Post gets very talented people. In an effort to reduce costs, they've hired, they've gone younger and younger because younger people are willing to be underpaid. You're going to see so many new sub stacks. You're going to see so many little, Puck is going to hire a bunch of these people. You're probably going to hire one or two of these people. These people are going to go on to greener pastures as opposed to being subject to the whims of a billionaire who wakes up and thinks, oh, I don't know how I feel about the post, lay off 300 people and keep my distance from it.

1:01:38Scott Galloway:But what the fuck is he thinking not finding someone else to take it off his hands? I don't get it. I just don't get it. I know.

1:01:44Kara Swisher:And let me just let me say a lot of the decline recently. I mean, it's definitely a secular problem has been directly because of his stupid ass decisions. There was one after the next. So a lot of these problems were because of the way he's been managing this. And his CEO, let me just say, Will Lewis, you should be ashamed of yourself of how you've behaved and all your idiotic ideas.

1:02:05Scott Galloway:We have a bunch of producers at our different podcasts. I don't know if you can see. I have some of them behind me.

1:02:09Kara Swisher:I know that. Yeah.

1:02:10Scott Galloway:But I called. I sent a message to the woman who runs our company and said, we should be reaching out to some people at The Post. Find people that we love. The Post right now is literally a recruiter's dream. Yeah. Everyone at the Post, even the ones that didn't get laid off, will return your call right now. Yeah, that's true. And these are very – I don't quite – I feel sorry from the sense that this was their dream job. These people are going to be just fine. Yeah. These are very talented people. So I don't – I think part of capitalism is –

1:02:41Kara Swisher:I get it.

1:02:41Scott Galloway:You know, if you make it easy to fire people, you make it easy to hire them. I think – I would bet 95 % of these people in two years look back on this and go, yeah, I miss it. It was great training, and I'm making more money and having more impact and more relevance now. And more fun.

1:02:57Kara Swisher:Yeah, it's true.

1:02:57Scott Galloway:And I don't have to wake up and hear what a guy in Parting in St. Barts thinks about layoffs. I don't.

1:03:03Kara Swisher:It's true. It's true. But in any case, Jeff, you're such an asshole. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

1:03:15Kara Swisher:One sweet, melty bite of a Hershey's bar, and suddenly I'm right back sitting on the front porch with my grandmother on a slow summer afternoon. She doesn't say much, just breaks the bar in half and hands me a piece. I open my mouth to say whatever a nine-year-old wants to say, and she replies with a low, shh, listen. So we sat there, listening. That was the first time I learned that quiet can feel full. Hershey's. It's your happy place. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for$15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities.

1:03:55Kara Swisher:So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of$45 for three-month plan, equivalent to$15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. Default terms at MintMobile.com.

1:04:19Kara Swisher:Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. I'm going to take a moment, though, before you do that, to say Savannah Guthrie's family with their mom missing. I know I've met her mom. She's amazing. I hope, hope, hope they find her alive. And it's so sad what's happening. It's getting far too much like media is sort of jumping all over it in kind of an untoward way. But if that helps get her back, I'm all for it. But I just want to send my love out to her family. They're wonderful people.

1:04:54Scott Galloway:It's really interesting, isn't it, how some stories really kind of, I mean, 35 ,000 people have supposedly been murdered in Iran. But this story really hits you because, A, people really, really appreciate and have a lot of fondness for Savannah. But occasionally there's a story and it just, it grabs you, right? It does. This story has really grabbed people because this is kind of everyone's nightmare, not knowing what's happening, not knowing what's going on. But I was really struck at how, and it's nice that occasionally people slow down. And when they hear an individual story, it really moves them.

1:05:31Scott Galloway:And I think the attention being brought to it is probably a good thing. Probably is. I think there's a lot. If anyone sees their mom, they're going to know it.

1:05:37Kara Swisher:That's right. Right?

1:05:38Scott Galloway:That's right. And so I think it's, anyways.

1:05:41Kara Swisher:There's a surprising not big number of kidnappings too, like in this country.

1:05:45Scott Galloway:It's very rare.

1:05:46Kara Swisher:Yeah.

1:05:47Scott Galloway:We all talk about the fear of kids and kidnapping.

1:05:49Kara Swisher:It's all over TV, but it's not true.

1:05:51Scott Galloway:It's very, very rare. All right.

1:05:56Kara Swisher:Let's hear a prediction from you.

1:05:58Scott Galloway:So effectively, I don't know if this is really good news, but essentially there are social media bans breaking out all over the world. Norway has a complete ban under 13. Belgium requires children under 13 to have parental permission. Germany requires parental consent for users aged 13 to 16. Italy requires parental consent at sign up for users under the age of 14. and Spain just announced that it's going to, it's the latest country, they're banning social media kids under 16. 82 % of Spaniards support banning social media for kids under 14. Greece is also nearing a social media ban for children under 15.

1:06:36Scott Galloway:Australia's implemented a similar ban. I also, just a shout out to my colleague, Jonathan Haidt. I think this would have happened anyway, but he's expedited it. And I think he deserves a lot of credit for this. Sure has. I mean, if you, for those of you thinking about going to academia, You can go into academia, study social science, get a PhD in psychology, and someday get entire nations to ban phones in schools. So to think that academics don't matter, you can have a lot of impact. Anyways, that's not my prediction. My prediction is that this is essentially not only common sense around our children, but this is the beginning of reciprocal tariffs.

1:07:15Scott Galloway:What do I mean by that? Other nations are sick of the sclerotic, irrational, punitive economic warfare that the Trump administration has levied on them with tariffs. And their tariffs are the following. They're going to start banning our social media platforms. The U.K. is already going after X. You are going to start to see over the course of the next 12 to 24 months, entire nations say, you know what? Maybe we don't need YouTube here. Maybe Meta should not be here.

1:07:45Kara Swisher:Maybe we won't use Zoom, but I think France is stopping using Zoom and the government.

1:07:49Scott Galloway:They're going to blanket in, OK, meta is bad for children, which is true. But the real motivation, in my view, is going to be like, you know what? We're kind of sick. If you're going to start making it harder for Americans to buy our Mercedes and our Vuitton, we're going to make it harder for people to watch YouTube and be on Instagram. I think European nations and the rest of the G7 are sick of big tech coming in, sucking billions of dollars out of their economy in exchange for opening a Facebook office in Milan. Their newspapers are going out of business. Their media companies are going out of business.

1:08:24Scott Galloway:Their manufacturers are going out of business. And this is essentially the thing that is tipping these companies over and giving them the backbone to start banning these things. And it's going to go up the food chain pretty soon. You're going to see a large nation say, you know what? I don't think we need Google. So this is, while it's being done under the very righteous and worthwhile cause of protecting children, which I celebrate and I think is important, effectively what this is is a reciprocal tariff. And pretty soon it's going to start creeping up. You know what's going to happen? Big countries are going to decide, you know what?

1:08:56Scott Galloway:We no longer want to use Goldman Sachs and McKinsey to do our banking. If you're going to start fucking with us, we're going to start fucking with you.

1:09:05Kara Swisher:Speaking of consumers, they're consumers. so they can speak with their, they can walk. They can walk. That's the thing. And there are alternatives.

1:09:12Scott Galloway:I love the idea of consumers speaking with their spending power. Yeah. I think it makes all the sense in the world. I know you do.

1:09:17Kara Swisher:That's why you look like an unsuccessful pimp this week. What's your outfit for next week?

1:09:23Scott Galloway:I don't know. I'm thinking, I'll give you a hint. I'll give you a hint. Okay. I have a hockey jersey and I'm not wearing any pants.

1:09:30Kara Swisher:Oh, nice. That's good. Good. Be on brand. That's perfect. That's perfect. On trend and on brand. On trend and on brand. That's really important, Scott. And I think you're right. This is there. Before when Europe was not innovative the way the U.S. has been on all these services, there are alternates right now. There are so many alternates to everything. If Silicon Valley thinks they hung the fucking moon, well, they might have, but no longer. And there are alternates in every single category now that you don't have to put up with the ridiculous midlife crisis antics of Jeff Bezos or whatever fresh hell meta is going to unleash upon us.

1:10:09Kara Swisher:There are choices now. And some of them might be China, by the way. And that's saying a lot if that's where they're going. So I agree with you. I think it's really important. Just so you know, everyone, we will talk about Malt Book and Open Claw next week. It's fine. Agent to agent was always the plan, but we'll talk about that. It's interesting. And we also will talk about Section 230. There's been a new bill to overturn and replace it. Oddly enough, I ran into Joseph Gordon-Levitt this week, and he was here helping. We'll talk about that next week because Section 230 is really interesting. I had some really interesting discussions with him and others about it.

1:10:43Scott Galloway:Can I just say I love the image of you being barely able to see over the mail cart going around and people mistaking you for a 15-year-old boy. Can I just say I love that image? I love that you started the Washington Post mailroom. That is really cool.

1:10:58Kara Swisher:I reorganized it. That is really cool. It was so messy. I reorganized all the boxes because I'm so anal retentive. I remember doing that. That is really cool. I was like, what are you doing? I'm like, this is inefficient. And I was like in college. It's true. I was slightly taller. Hey, little fella, don't worry. He'll grow. Oh, wait.

1:11:12Scott Galloway:No, that's Kara Swisher.

1:11:14Kara Swisher:Anyway, they didn't know my name at all. And let me tell you, from doing that, everybody who was talented was nice to me. Untalented people were assholes. It was really fast.

1:11:24Scott Galloway:I worked in a mailroom. I worked in a mailroom of Southwestern University School of Law where my mom ran the secretarial pool and we used to have lunch together.

1:11:31Kara Swisher:And here we are together again without my picture behind you. Anyway, I'm not offended.

1:11:35Scott Galloway:But here's the thing. I'm going to have to move to a – everyone's all over me. You're selling your Apple stock. Did you unsubscribe to this? I'm going to have to move to Ted Kaczynski's shed and have no entertainment and have a ham radio because I'm running out of things to unsubscribe to. I wanted to. Well, subscribe to us. I've been binging that gay hockey thing, which I think could easily turn me something.

1:11:56Kara Swisher:Yay. What do you think? Really quickly. That's funny because we'll have a bonus episode tomorrow. I spoke to the executive producers of Heated Rivalry about how they made the breakout hit for a fraction of the cost of other major streaming shows and what they've got coming out next. What do you think so far? I made Scott watch Heated Rivalry.

1:12:15Scott Galloway:I think it's an important series for young men to watch because there's different forms of leadership and masculinity and empathy and love and sexual identity. and I got to be honest, Kara, every time I see something like this, I'm reminded of how many people I lost to AIDS back in the 90s. And I don't think I hope and trust that young people and especially gay men realize how important science is and how fortunate they are and that America has made a lot of progress around these issues. I can't watch anything about gay men and not think about the 90s. You and I both.

1:12:48Kara Swisher:Absolutely. Anyway, I'm so glad you're watching it. I hope I can't wait until you get to episode five. Anyway, we want to hear from you and we have some homework for our listeners today. Send us a message about your favorite or least favorite Super Bowl ad after the big game on Sunday. Go to nymag.com slash pivot or call 855-51-PIVOT.

1:13:06Scott Galloway:Also, I woke up this morning in a Toronto Maple Leafs jersey, a half-bottle drink of Jack and a condom hanging out of my ass. I don't know if that has anything to do with anything.

1:13:15Kara Swisher:We're taking that out. Go to nymag.com slash pivot or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to PIVOT. Be sure to like and subscribe, not unsubscribe, to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week.

1:13:30Scott Galloway:Today's show was produced by Larry Naiman, Sonia Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intershot engineered this episode. Manolo Moreno edited the video. Thanks to Officer Jabros, Miss Rivera, and Dan Chalon. Nishak Kroos, Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow PIVOT on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to PIVOT from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe Go to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

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