AI Summit, U.S. v. Google, and Drew Barrymore Backlash

23:56So I thought Senator Schumer did a great service to humanity here. I think something good will come of this. I think this meeting may have gone on history as being very important for the future of civilization. God, he's such a drama queen. OK, fine. Whatever. It's a meeting. I thought I want this meeting to be more than a press release. I suppose they're a useful conversation. I think I'm in the same camp as of all things, Josh Hawley and Senator Warren are all in the same camp. So I'm not sure why it had to be private. Warren said these tech billionaires want to lobby Congress behind closed doors with no questions asked.

24:34That's just plain wrong. Senator Marsha Blackburn, not exactly a friend of Elizabeth Warren, said in a statement, Congress has always conducted its business in the sunshine. Today's forum should have been no different. And Senator Josh Hawley called it a cocktail party for big tech. You know, they all raised their hands when they said there should be regulation. Elon said, apparently, it's important for us to have a referee. One of the contentions was open source systems that public can access. Zuckerberg is pushing that, but some people think it's dangerous. Zuckerberg said open source democratizes access to these tools and helps level the playing fields and foster innovation for people and businesses.

25:05He has an argument to make. You know, what do you think? What do you think? I think, well, I disagree with the statements about Sunshine. I think it was actually probably likely much more productive behind closed doors because whenever it's on camera, the people looking to raise money off of YouTube clips by doing identity politics and accusing them of being billionaires, Senator Warren or on the right saying that they're censoring and not actually getting anything done, not actually asking questions to learn, but asking questions for a gotcha moment, hoping that it goes on YouTube and TikTok.

25:39Yeah, and raise money. These things are circuses. They're entertainment. So, I think that I would imagine the conversation was just more civil and more productive out of the glare of fundraising and cameras. And I thought Elon Musk sounded about as reasonable as he can sound there, except for the civilization thing, which I think I agree with you is just more catastrophizing and techno-narcissism that technology is the key to saving or destroying humanity all the time. But I hope but this is where I'm cynical. I think they all understand theoretically that there needs to be regulation here. And then they deploy their army of lobbyists to make sure that the regulation doesn't get in the way of their earnings.

26:20So I'm all for it. And I hope that they bring in incredibly. I've always thought government officials are underpaid and the fact that they're underpaid leads them to be total whores so they can feather their bed post post their government service. but also we need more compensation to attract the best and brightest at a young age, especially staffers who understand AI. And, you know, this is, I'm hopeful. I don't know. I sort of, it's just there was so many people there, 60 senators and all these people. I don't know how public it is. And so there's still peacocking going on in these things, right?

26:56So I don't know. I just feel like, and they also initially did not have a very diverse, And I don't mean by people, but in terms of people who have different opinions at this thing, and they brought more academics in who are more worried. You know, I think it's fine to have an airing of, you know, airing of the grievances or whatever you want to call it. But action is really what I'm more interested in. Of course, you know, others, Sam Altman and Alphabet CEO Sundar Pichai, talked to reporters about AI creating positive changes in the labor market with far more great new jobs than before. Or Sundar's proposals include encouraging higher use of AI in government and advancing a, quote, workforce transition agenda that benefits everyone.

27:36But action is what I want to hear about. Schumer, who blocked a lot of legislation around privacy, et cetera, talked about a timeline for getting laws in the books telling reporters it can't be days or weeks, nor should it be years. It will be a general category of months. But Senator Blumenthal said you need to do legislation and learn at the same time. Senator Cruz said Congress is rushing to regulate a technology they don't understand. And Schumer, I'm not on board with him. He did block a lot of the Klobuchar stuff. Everyone blames him. Real smart people do. So I don't know. I don't know. I want some action.

28:09Yeah, let's be hopeful. But I feel like we keep getting our heart broken. They just fly in and fly out. I don't know. I just feel like I don't care if they do it behind. I do care if they do it behind. I think I paid for this mic, as Ronald Reagan said. So I would like the mic to be open. But I get the peacocking problem. What I would like before this legislation, if they're really honest about the need for regulation, I'd like them all to raise their hands and come to a gentle person's agreement that they're going to find a way to watermark AI. And they're not going to use AI-generated imagery pre the presidential election leading up to the election.

28:47There's some legislation there. But the legislation likely won't happen. And I think we're about to see the mother of all AI-generated misinformation Lollapalooza in Q1 or Q2 of next year as Putin realizes the fastest blue line path to victory in Ukraine is to get Trump reelected. And they'll start generating enormously damaging images and deep fakes and videos and content that's been AI tested that depositions Biden and Harris. I think that it's going to come. And then all the big tech firms will cash their check. and come November the 5th, they'll decide that they should have taken more action and wring their hands and say, we're sorry, we need to do better in 2028.

29:24Agreed. I'd just like to see one piece of legislation. Remove it from 230 protections. If it's AI-generated and you elevate it, if you algorithmically elevate AI-generated content, it no longer has the shield of 230. Let's start there. You don't think there should be a tech department that regulates tech just like the FCC? Yeah, but that's not going to happen in the next six months. That might happen, And I do think there might be at some point a head of AI and NATO and an AI person. But by the time they inform the president, by the time they go on their listening tour, you're talking about legislation maybe in two years.

29:56We need Q1 and Q2 when the GRU, when Putin realizes it's easier to spend$7 billion than$70 billion to try and swing the American election. And they have a lot of scientists. They're very smart. They're very strategic. You're going to see just – you want to see AI, what AI does? we're going to know what it did after the election when all of a sudden it comes out. By the way, it worked just fine with the shitty technology, right? You know, propaganda works, you know. Anyway, we'll see. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Google going on trial and take a listener mail question about networking successfully.

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32:08Scott, we're back with our second big story. The first monopoly trial of the modern internet era is now underway, US v. Google. At the center of the case, did Google abuse its power and kill the competition by paying companies to be the default search engine on devices and platforms? The government says yes, with more than 90 % of the market share. Google says it dominates because their product is just better. The trial is expected to last three months, with Google CEO Sundar Pichai and other executives expected to testify. Sundar will be back. I wouldn't mind Sundar coming over for a sleepover.

32:38He can come to my house. He's a nice guy. You like Sundar? Yeah, he's a nice guy. Who would I have over? I'd have Sundar, Sam, Reid Hoffman, I guess. Who's your favorite tech? That's an interesting question. Who's Kara Swisher's favorite tech icon? That is a good question. Who would you not have a beer with because you don't drink? Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban at this moment. I really enjoy him. I think he speaks his mind and we disagree often, actually. He's not really a tech guy. I mean, sort of. I like Sundar. I like Sacha. I have a whole chapter in my upcoming book about like, there are people I like.

33:11There's a number of them. Brian Chesky I like. I would argue, Kara, that a lot of people's journalists feel that way, and that's part of the reason they're CEOs. Is that Susan Majicki, Sheryl Sandberg, Sundar Pichai, I think they make tens of millions because they're outstanding managers, but they make billions because they're heat shields for the mendacious fucks that have started those companies. Ah, yes. Well, yes. Yes. I think you got it right. I'm just talking about people on a personal basis. Anyway, it's okay to like or dislike them. It's fine. I think, you know, I'm with the Christiane Amanpour, who just, of course, did 40 years at CNN.

33:45She's been at CNN 40 years? 40 years. Truthful, not neutral. I love that. She's fantastic. I do. She's great. She's amazing. She's the goat. Anyway, the trial is expected to last three months. So what do you think about this. What do you make of these arguments by the government and also Google? Another part of Google's argument is that their competition is not just other search engines, but companies like Amazon, DoorDash, Expedia. This is an argument Amazon uses, actually. There's so much retail. It's not just us. What do you think? What do you think? And a lot of people don't like all these payment numbers coming out.

34:18Apple certainly doesn't. You know, this$10 billion or$20 billion, whatever they spent. I would argue one of two things happen. Either they find that the law, that in a court of law, that the DOJ does not have the right to break them up, which to me says they're either broken up, which I think will be the correct interpretation of the law. But if they decide they should not be broken up, I would argue we need new laws. Well, it's a narrower case about these deals, but go ahead. But okay, no one else can afford to pay Apple$20 billion to be the default search engine, and then no one else gets that level of data and can pull ahead of everybody and then spend$30 billion to lock up those key channels.

34:54And let's try and bring it down to, well, what impact does this have on the world regardless of the laws or antitrust or monopoly abuse? Let's go stakeholder by stakeholder. First, let's talk about shareholders, because at the end of the day, shareholders usually decide these things. Anytime there's a breakup of companies like this, within a few years, much less 10 years, the shareholders benefit. The baby bells were all worth more than the original AT &T within a decade. When eBay spun PayPal, PayPal ended up being worth exponentially more. Shareholders win in breakups. Let's talk about the employees.

35:27Employees' compensation goes up because now there's more firms that have to compete to rent their human capital. Let's talk about the Commonwealth. I believe if YouTube and Meta were not monopolies, they would not be radicalizing young men or sending suicidal ideation images of pills, bottles, and razors, because P &G would have the opportunity to advertise on platforms that aren't hurting young people. Let's talk about the founders. Here's the only stakeholder that loses, the one that controls the company, because once you're worth$40 or$60 billion, you don't care about being worth$70 or$80. You want to sit on the iron throne.

36:04So shareholders, the country, employees, the tax base, the number of startups, the venture capital ecosystem, innovation. Every stakeholder wins in a breakup with the exception of the person who controls the company through dual-class shareholders. The breakup, distinct to the morality of the secret monopoly abuse, the fastest way to oxygenate our economy on the tech side would be to break up these companies. And if you want to talk about what ails our country, it's the fact that young people are making less money and everything has gotten more expensive. And one of the things that has gotten more expensive is the monopoly rents these firms are charging on corporations.

36:39Thank you for my TED Talk. This is true. Yep. Thank you. I think I agree with you. I think this is a hundred. You know, I was talking, I saw a lot of people yesterday from both sides of this case, and I've just interviewed John Cantor and others. And, you know, the Google side, of course, is like, well, we're doing good things. This is the la la la. And I keep saying 91%. I'm sorry. I don't know. Well, you don't have, you can have 91 % and not be hurtful. I'm like, Can you? Like, it just is it seems like I just can't get past that number. Right. And across the globe. And and I don't care. They can make their arguments.

37:12There's other search companies. There aren't. There aren't. They just and they're never they never will happen. You know, Neva closed and they just won't happen. There's no reason for them. And these things do tend towards a network. Their argument of the government's argument that these deals couldn't be made by anyone's, I think it's a pretty good one. I don't know what they're going to do, unwind them, make an iPhone. I think probably what might happen is you get the iPhone and you're like, which of these do you want to use? And then Google will be on there like a voting thing. But it doesn't matter at this point.

37:41It's too late. But if you look at the history of antitrust, breakups work really well. But almost as effective is just the scrutiny you're under once the antitrust case is underway. Why? So initially, the Microsoft judgment to break up the company was overturned. Very different case, but go ahead. Okay. I'm talking about the effects of antitrust when there's an order or a remedy is to break up the company. And in the instance of Microsoft, it was overturned. However, however, the consent decree they ultimately ended up signing stopped them from bundling and putting small search companies out of business.

38:17Google was born of antitrust enforcement. If we didn't have a proud legacy in our nation of understanding the power corrupts and going in and breaking up companies when they become too powerful, we'd all be saying, I don't know, bang it. Google, it is cynical from the outset for Google not to recognize that antitrust is why they are as powerful as they are. And we need to frame it from— No, Scott, they did it because they're better. They are better, too. By the way, they did create a great search engine. That's the problem. Great. That's exactly right. But what but antitrust and breakup needs to be perceived not as punishment, but as recognition.

38:55Right. But let me say, I don't think that's what's going to happen here. I don't think this is what this has been made into a much smaller trial. You're comparing it to the Microsoft trial. That one similarity is that it's a bench trial, which is not a jury trial. It's up to one person. Just Microsoft was Judge Penfield Jackson, Thomas Penfield Jackson. This is Judge Amit Mehta to make a ruling. Very well regarded judge. By the way, I talked to both sides. this last couple of days, they both think a lot of him. He was appointed by Barack Obama in 2014. He's been very careful. He's been very quiet, very thoughtful.

39:28I think they both think he's quite a good judge. So there's no yelling about that. But it's one person who's going to decide this. And the question is, what can he actually do that really matters? And that's, I think, the thing most people were talking about is since it's so limited to distribution and not, There is another advertising case being investigated. Like, it's not a mega case. It's not a mega case. And that's the thing. And the Justice Department, Kenneth Dinser, said this case is about the future of the Internet. I think the future of the Internet was before when they had a chance to really do something.

40:04I'm not so sure they can do anything now. Yeah, look, I think so many wonderful things would happen. I think if you forced, and I don't think this case directly, it might be a remedy, but say they forced Alphabet to spin YouTube. I think within 90 days at the first corporate offsite, the folks at an independent YouTube say, how do we grow revenues? Let's create a text-based search company. We're really good at this. And then I think Google, as an independent company, goes, let's start another video-based search platform. And overnight, you have two credible players in video search and text-based search, which lowers the rents on corporations and creates more jobs.

40:40Sure, but that's not an issue here. But it's a remedy. Is it of this one? No, it's not, actually. But, you know, I don't think you can force this on them. Anyway, we'll see what happens here. It's going to go on. There's going to be a lot of these cases, whether it's Apple or Amazon and others. And it's just the wheels of justice move very slowly and it's too late. OK, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. You've got, you've got. I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. This question comes from Daniel. Hi, Kara and Scott. Thank you for all your great work. Your podcasts are always insightful, inspiring and entertaining.

41:14I'm so lucky to get to attend Code this year, which is taking place in another week or so in California. working as the head of a technical department at a large public media company in Scandinavia has been a dream. This has been a dream of mine for several years. I expect to be outgunned at the event with my current position, but I cannot wait to get to know people from the international tech world. Have you any advice for a 36-year-old European attending an event like this? Keep up the great work. Both of you have an important inspiration for me, both personally and professionally. Kindly, Daniel.

41:43Well, thank you for coming, Daniel. You should have come last year, my last year. The big show. It was a big show. It was a big show. Everybody was there. Yeah, they were. The business has definitely changed since I, frankly, innovated it many, many decades ago. If you don't say so yourself. I do say so myself. I think I did. I think everyone copied everything we did. But I got out of it, which is interesting. But talk about networking advice, because there is, you know, there was a weird Wall Street Journal article saying people don't want to socialize after work, which I think is one of those trend stories always make.

42:12I'm like, really? Everybody? I just think people aren't with each other. Talk about networking advice, especially. You know, you can do them at a conference or at work. It is important. There is something important to gatherings. I do 30 minutes on this in my class in Brand Strategy under the Brand Is You session I do. And first, let me just talk about on a very meta level, we're mammals. And one of the things that is really ailing our society is a total decline in third places. And while these third places are sequestered from most people who can't afford to come to these things, I think anything that gets people together and has random encounters and you see that that person who worked, you know, I met someone who works at Metta yesterday and I spent some time with her.

42:56And you just realize, you know, for the most part, these are good people. And you meet people, I think I told you, I met the guy who's starting this UK basketball league. It's just inspiring. And we're going to go to a football game with our kids. It's important that we bump off of each other and smell and touch each other. on a specific level as it relates to networking. If you think about brands and how brands are built, you could largely trifurcate it into pre-purchase branding, think of broadcast advertising before you engage with a customer, then distribution, when you go into a store and you actually wanna buy the product and then post-purchase what happens after you're part of the community.

43:34Generally speaking, the first part, pre-purchase, is over-invested because people like to think if I just find the right cool people wearing black and I have a great new ad campaign, by a guy named Don Draper, I can take my marginal product and increase share. That dog won't hunt. It is overinvested. The ROI on pre-purchase has declined dramatically. Then Apple took it$6.5 billion of pre-purchase branding, stuck it into distribution, created 550 temples to the brands. And then the gangster of all of them, the tobacco industry, once they got, it was illegal to do pre-purchase or in-store branding, moved to database marketing and Marlboro points, and then could sense whether you were trying to give up smoking and started sending you points and coupons to keep you getting emphysema.

44:14Anyways, in terms of your own brand and your own personal networking, what is overinvested is how much emphasis you place on in-person. We're all obsessed with personal interactions and that's important. But in terms of where you invest your networking, one, the really smart networkers before the conference will get a list of everyone they wanna meet and they'll ping them with a note. And they'll say, hi, I'm gonna be at this conference. I'd really love to meet. And they do some pre-purchase investing. And then they're there and they work hard and they try to be charming. And then the other place people don't invest is post-purchase.

44:44You meet somebody and you follow up. Hey, it was great to meet you. You know, I just got a message today. It was great to meet you. Do you want to catch an Arsenal game? And I'm like, that's an easy yes. And I'm probably going to get to know this person. So networking, people tend to focus too much on the in-person interaction. But the real ROI is in the pre-purchase. Quick email, I'm going to be at this conference. Do you want to grab coffee? And then the post-purchase to follow up. I love that, Scott. I was wondering where this was going, and then you landed it. You landed that fucking airplane.

45:12I was like, where is he going with the pre-purchase, book-purchase emphysema situation? But thank you for bringing emphysema into the conversation. I don't know what to say. I'm a good networker, I guess, but I think you're right. One of the things I used to tell people, and I have showed up at a lot of events. I go to a lot of things, or I used to much more than I do now, but that's because I want to meet less people. I am so with you. I feel so bad. I have a quick story about that. I saw Joanna Coles at my Cheers in New York at the Crosby Hotel. We're doing a power breakfast. And Joanna's like, Scott, come over here.

45:46I can't wait to introduce you to all these really interesting people in London. I'm like, I don't want to meet anybody. And the whole table is so quiet. I'm like, I'm about my kids and writing. I do not want to meet anybody. And then I sat in my lunch. I met with this guy starting this super impressive. And the whole breakfast, I'm like, God, that was so fucking rude. And I had to go back and say, Joanna, I'm sorry. I just don't. Yeah, I know. I'm with you, sir. This is what you this is what the two of us have to remember. We're in such a position of blessings that people come up to us. I literally don't have to approach anybody anymore.

46:18People come up to me and say hi, and they're really friendly and nice. And it's really important that you that you don't take that for granted and that you're not only really warm to people who come up to you, but occasionally, occasionally, what the hell, make an effort, because it's so easy to become a bit of a snob. and just lose your mojo and lose your friendliness and expect people to treat you as if you're famous or nice. And I find myself, I went to this dinner last night. I walked in, everyone was sitting down at this IMG dinner, and I immediately walked out. And this young woman named Henny ran after me, grabbed me, sat me down, introduced her to people.

46:55And at the end of dinner, I'm like, this is so important that there's people like you that handle spoiled jerks like me. Yeah, yeah. Well, people don't realize you're quite shy. You're quite shy, actually. Yeah, but you know something? I wasn't when I needed to make money. Right. When I was younger and my ability to meet people was my ability to build wealth, I found the mojo to be friendlier. You did. But I said, as a person, people are always surprised when I say that. He's actually a little shyer than you. They think you're standoffish sometimes. I'm like, no, he's shy. Like, don't mistake it.

47:29I don't think it's either of those. I just don't like people, Karen. Oh, okay. All right. All right. Well, then there you have it. Perpetually Dissatisfied by Walter Isaacson. That could be a book. People think I'm going to be so lively and entertaining and funny. And they're like, Jesus Christ, he's so boring. They do. You're like a comic. You know, like Johnny Carson was not funny. Yeah, no. Yeah, everyone in my life is like, we wish you were that guy on the podcast. I know. It's true. It was true. But I'll hear you. That's the way it goes. Anyway, I think Scott's advice is excellent. I would say I would I am very networky, but I tend to just ask a lot of questions of people, get to know them.

48:10And you never know where you're going to meet someone super interesting. That is one thing I always I'm always like, oh, I didn't want to do that. And then I find some little tidbit, something. I went to a party last two parties last night, actually, with Amanda. And I wanted to bring her because she's you know, she works for The Washington Post in the opinion section. I'm like, you could meet people that could maybe write things. You know, you don't know who you're going to very interesting viewpoints. and afterwards we went to a party at the French embassy, which is the best place to go to a party ever in Washington.

48:38I went to a party at the French embassy. It was for Xfinity about the Olympics coming up in Paris. That's why they had it there. And I ran into four or five people I was really glad to hear different little things from, and it was interesting. I didn't want to go, and then I was like, oh, I'm glad I went kind of thing. Anyway, come say hello to me, Daniel. I will be at Code. It takes place September 26th and 27th in California. As I said, you can still apply to attend at voxmedia.com slash code. Oh, this was a big fucking ad. I feel so fooled. No, it's not. No, no, don't you're not. No, but it's actually a good question.

49:12No, it's not. I thought this was sincere. Does he even exist or is this just a big, is this just a big marketing ploy? Yes, it's Jim Bank, Daniel, a.k.a. Jim Bankoff. No, I think it's, no, but no, but it is interesting. It's an interesting conference. How can I network and what is the premier technology conference taking place this year? No, you can, listen, let me just say, go to any of them. The Journal has one coming up. There's a whole bunch of them coming up. The Atlantic has one that looks interesting. Bloomberg is constantly having them. You go to whatever event you want. You do not have to come to code.

49:41You can go to whatever you want. And like Scott, you go on Bill Maher if you really want to, but probably you won't be invited. Anyway, Scott will, but not you, Daniel. But anyway, thank you for your question. If you've got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551-PIVOT. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. I hope you're ready today.

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51:06okay scott let's hear some wins and fails would you like to go first you go first i haven't thought about it yet well my win is christiane amanpour she's just the goat 40 years just still as sharp as a text still really doing it she's been everywhere um all over the place i think she's she has a real sense of um moral outrage still which i think is good about especially around really terrible places she's been. And she's done some really serious on-the-ground reporting. I think she's just a legend. Fails? I don't think I have one. Let me think about it. You go next. My win is Senator Mitt Romney.

51:45He's decided to step down at the adolescent age of 76. I think he's a really impressive good man. Married for 53 years. He was a missionary in France. And actually, I don't know if you know this, I love Mormons. I absolutely love Mormons. I was raised with Mormons. A touch homophobic and racist, but other than that, I love the Church of Latter-day Saints. And I grew up with Mormons and they were super into their family, super into their country, super, a lot of emphasis on success and sports and was just such a positive influence on me. Anyways, Senator Romney, married 53 years, owes the life of public service combined with the guy was a baller professionally, Bain Capital.

52:26I think he was the founder of Bain Capital and then decided to go into public service. And I think he's always demonstrated, regardless of what you think of his politics, I think he's always demonstrated a decent amount of grace and courage. And the Republican Party just no longer recognizes him. I would recommend people to the Atlantic story. A guy's been following him for two years for a book. They're an Atlantic writer. And I have to say it's quite some story. The book should be amazing. I didn't want to read a Mitt Romney book, but it looks fantastic. Go ahead. The guy's going in the way he came out.

53:00Whatever his name, Representative Santos walked by him and Senator Romney. And it's not easy to do this. It's easy to talk this way behind people's back. He said, young man, you should be ashamed of yourself. And he wasn't mean. He wasn't going on TikTok and calling him names. He said it to his face. And I think he's had a life of service and professional success and five sons, you know, five decade long marriage. And we were talking about networking. I grew up with a lot of Mormons. I think mission and service are such fantastic training vehicles because, I mean, what do you get when you combine a Jehovah's Witness and a Mormon?

53:42I don't know, but I can't get this guy off my porch. it teaches them to be really aggressive and friendly and endure rejection. And I think that is a gift for a young person. I think every young person should be in a retail job with the face of public so they can endure people being rude to them and develop empathy for what it means to be serving people. And also, I think every young person should be forced to be in some sort of sales job because what it shows you is that you can survive rejection and it gives you the mojo and the aggression you need to be successful. And mission is kind of that.

54:11You want to talk about rejection. Have you ever had missionaries knock on your door? Yes, they do not stay long. Oh, I invite them in. I love missionaries. Anyways, I regaled them with stories about how I played on the church softball team and that my first kiss was with Libby Pettit, who was in the church. And that was literally as far as it went, see above Mormon. Okay. Anyways, but I think that going back to networking, I think at a young age to have that sort of international experience, learn another language. That's why I'm a big fan of national service. So anyways, Senator Romney, I think he's lived a life of professional success, family, God.

54:50He's obviously a very spiritual man. Let me just say, he's dropping the bombs. He said, why would anyone want to have lunch with J.D. Vance? He's going after it. He's like, I don't give a fuck. I'm going to tell you all what I think, which I kind of like. I like Mitt Romney unplugged. But it's not mean-spirited. It comes from, he's not trying to raise money. A little mean spirit. It's really mean. I think he believes these things. Read the piece. I think he believes these things. I do, but let me say, I'm all there for it because I think he's dropping truth bombs. The nation would be in such a better place if it had more Republicans like Senator Mitt Romney.

55:23That is, but they are fewer and fewer. That's right. There's no place for him anymore. Fewer. The good ones leave, the terrible ones stay. And also, most importantly, can you think of any 76-year-old as good looking as Mitt Romney? He's in great shape. He's got great hair. Anyways, I just, I think it's a great role model of masculinity and service. And I think he's had an esteem career. And not only that, and this goes to my fail, inherited this incredible skill that has incredible dearth amongst our elected leaders. And that is he knows when to leave. And that's my fail. I did the actuarial tables on our likely nominees on the Democratic and the Republican side.

56:03At this point, Joe Biden, every year, there's a 6 % to 7 % chance he's going to die that year. And there's a 4.5 % to 5.25 % chance mortality rate when you're at Trump's age. And Trump, you could probably dial up a little bit because he's obese. But again, he looks really, at the same time, he's very robust. What does that mean? That means in the next six years, there's a 41 % chance that Biden's going to die. and there's like a 37 % chance that Trump's going to die, meaning that in the next six years before the next president would be elected on inauguration day and whatever it is, January of 29, there is a two in three chance that one of them will die.

56:43And that's who we've decided we're going to bank the nation on. So my win as Senator Mitt Romney and my fail is that unlike the good senator, these individuals don't know when to leave, even when it's probably the right thing to do for the country. All right. All right. There you have it. There you have it. You have a fail, actually. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is flying to Silicon Valley this week to meet with Elon Musk in an effort. Let me read this. In an effort to help ease the escalating crisis over anti-Semitism, the meeting is the latest step in a campaign by Musk's Jewish friends and allies and executives at a social media company's stave off mounting controversy.

57:19see. Netanyahu has done this before when he repeated anti-Semitic trokes about Jewish financier George Soros. And this guy comes in and helps him get over it. It's kind of gross. I mean, I'm sorry. It just is. He just should. Well, it's anti-Semitism meets fascism. It's really weird that he would do this. Isn't Netanyahu trying to unwind the Supreme Court? Yeah, they're trying to broker peace. And Joe Lonsdale, who co-founded Palantir, a friend of his, Linda Iaccarino, has gone to damage control mode. Like, why are they keeping helping this? Let's let it play out. These people just come in and try to assuage the situation.

58:02Netanyahu, what a— This is—they are meeting. Their PR representatives are meeting. This is just such bullshit. You know what I've been thinking a lot about, Carrie? Speaking of stunts, yeah. Talk about stunts. That last paragraph you read of Isaacson's book, which said, you know, look at his childhood and look how tough it is and kind of excusing his actions. And I was actually thinking about you. I was saying, OK, you know, they talk about how his father traumatized him. Your father died when you were five. And yet you figured out a way. I had a really bad stepfather. I had a very unfortunate.

58:33But for some reason, it didn't end up in anti-Semitism. It didn't. I mean, it's just such it's so ridiculous. This is one of my questions for Walter. The different standards we've set for people because they're billionaires. I just find this, I couldn't help it. I went and read that last paragraph and it felt like a reheated version of that Think Different commercial from the 90s from Lee Clow and Shia Day, the crazy ones. And I'm like, that's what we're going to start doing? Because here's the thing. All life, all heroes, all villains comes down to comic books. And that is every comic book is born of childhood trauma.

59:11But here's the decision you have. The superheroes are born of trauma. They're the son of orphans. Batman, Bruce Wayne was the son of orphans. But the villain is someone who experiences childhood trauma and turns it into hate. But childhood trauma is no, I mean, it's a reason to give people empathy, but it doesn't justify anti-Semitism or misogyny. I agree. I don't get it. I don't get why everybody, I don't. Let me read this quote. It's clear Twitter's drop-off in ad revenue started months ago as a result of changes to the platform made to ad formats, said Sarah Livingston, a marketing analyst consultant, has nothing to do with the ADL.

59:50Another advertising executive who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe industry conversation said there's been a 75 % drop-off in the number of people who click on ads since most acquisition of a company. The person said the ADL has not been pressuring advertisers to stop spending on the platform lately. This is such and for Netanyahu running in and these friends trying to this is what they spend their fucking time doing is is is doing this rather than fixing the actual problem. It's making sure that that that he doesn't look that way. If maybe they should make sure he doesn't talk like that.

1:00:22And so I'm sorry, Linda and Joe, stop it. Please stop it. It's not it's not it's it's so wrong on every aspect. But you fly in anyone you want anyone to to whitewash what is a bad situation. And in general, this is not it's not just an Elon thing. It's a lot of people in tech as I as I reflect on it. It's just they never deal with the actual problem. They deal with making them look better. I just I don't it's such bad parenting. I don't know what else. If my jokes become profane and inappropriate enough, will you bring in Trudeau? And who's the prime minister of the president of New Zealand? Yeah, I know.

1:00:57Exactly. And I'll give you this one quote from one of his helpers. He doesn't hate Jews, but he's a fighter. And when you punch him, he's going to punch back. Oh, fuck you. Part of who he is is an aggressive force of nature. He doesn't understand the second order effects. He's a 52-year-old man. He should understand the second order. Anyway, just fix the problem. Fix the problem and stop. You know, one of my favorite, I'll tell you my favorite person in Silicon Valley over the many years is a guy named Jim Barksdale. He ran Netscape and he had a deal with giant toddler Mark Andreessen during those days.

1:01:31And one of the things he said, he had a bunch of aphorisms. He's from the South and actually had dinner with him and Walter Isingson once. And he said, just remember, Kara, and he used to say this to people at Netscape, to keep the main thing the main thing. That was his big business broma. And I was like, exactly. Let's keep the main thing the main thing, which was we know what the main thing is. So anyway, there you go. There you go. Jim Barksdale, legend. What is Jim Barksdale up to? Oh, you know, he's retired. He lives down in Mississippi, I think. He's, you know, older. He's a wonderful man.

1:02:06He was my favorite. And what a good man. Anyway, that's it. That's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Scott, please read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Brandon McFarlane engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miel Saverio, and Gatti McBain. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Happy 16th birthday, Alec. Your birth was the best thing that ever happened to me.

1:02:38Oh, happy birthday, Alec.

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