Barbenheimer, AI in the Newsroom, and Scott Doubles Down

24:00135 of them are subject to just pure supply and demand. They don't have Fran Drescher giving indignant speeches. So, the majority of America is actually, in my opinion, surprisingly empathetic given that 89 % of them aren't represented by a union to labor. And I would argue the majority of the coverage has been very sympathetic to the writers and the actors' concerns. Well, except for you. Well, here's the thing. The truth has a nice ring to it. I know. Sorry. Yeah. That was awfully arrogant. That was, but I'm going to let you say it. I want to say I'm on the side. I'm on the side. I want people to make more money.

24:40I really do. I empathize. I think there's dignity in work. I think America, the brand that is America, is about liberty. It's about courage. It's about generosity. And it's also about work. Americans work. We work a lot. We work hard. We're very innovative. There has to be dignity in it. But when you look at the act, the issue here is income inequality, not who's making more in front of the camera, behind the camera, because the reality is the highest paid actors make as much as the highest paid studio heads. But the highest paid actors are much more sympathetic. And when they get dropped off in their mailbox at the strike line for seven minutes to get photos and say, I stand with the writers.

25:17And then they meld back to their home in the Hollywood Hills. It just rings hollow for me. What we need is public policy that says anyone who works should have access to healthcare. Any woman that works or any family that works should have access to universal pre-K. Anybody that works should get 25 bucks an hour full stop. And then above that, I got to be honest, I think it's supply and demand. And I think all you're doing, I just don't think they want to face the reality that we probably don't need 185 ,000 actors. All right. All right. We're going to go with it. In any case, in these merger guidelines, because I think that they're trying to work how they can with the laws they have and try to be more creative.

25:53This is an attempt to be more creative and very clear to companies so they know when the Justice Department will act and how it will act, which I think is a credit to them. Obviously, they still need new antitrust law going forward. But to take care, because I think our antitrust laws, as you and I both think, are part of an era that doesn't exist anymore. So we'll see where it goes. We'll see where it goes. But it has to be a little more sophisticated and work with the laws that exist now. Anyway, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about AI and more developments and take a listener mail question from a 10-year-old listener.

26:30Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. It's the only business software you'll ever need. Odoo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload.

26:58No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

27:34Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. It's the only business software you'll ever need. Odoo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload.

28:02No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

28:40Scott, we're back with our second big story, the latest developments in the AI arms race. Starting with reports that Google is testing a new AI tool that can write news articles Google has demoed the product, which is called Genesis internally. What a name. For execs at the New York Times, the Washington Post and News Corp, it's reportedly being pitched as a sort of personal assistant for journalists, automating some tasks like headline writing and suggesting different writing styles. According to New York Times, some executives who saw Google's pitch described it as, quote, unsettling. Google spokesman Jen Kreider said these tools are not intended to and cannot replace the essential role journalists have in reporting, creating and fact checking their articles.

29:17I don't know. I don't know. I haven't seen it. I can imagine it. As you know, I got into a fight with some journalists who didn't want AI to write headlines. I thought that was perfectly fine. It depends on how far this goes. I haven't seen it. What are the pluses and minuses for the industry here? Because this comes at a time, as you know, when news publishers around the world are saying they want a slice of Google's revenue. Australia put pressure on Google and Meta in 2021. They're now paying$140 million a year into Australian journalism, mostly Rupert Murdoch, Uncle Satan, presumably. What do you think about this?

29:52I feel like you're going to forget more about journalism than I'm ever going to know. What were your thoughts when you saw this? I think some of it could be tools, headline writing, for example. I got into quite a fight with someone. I was like, this is not where we draw the line. If they do a good job at it, it should be automated, just like a lot of things are. Certain stories, certainly, earnings. I don't know why people have to write them. It's stupid. It's stupid waste of resources when you could be devoted to other things. I used to have to write earnings all the time. I never understood it.

30:22It's a plug and play. It's almost like a press release, right, in some ways. Unless you have something, then you could go and write the analysis of it that I don't think AI can do. I think what they scrape in order to get it, if they scrape all my stories, I think AP just signed with ChatGPT to put some of its archives in there. It'll help, I think, ChatGPT more than AP, presumably. I think the idea of their content being used to train, generate AI for free, and the Times, and I've spoken to Meredith Levin about this, who's the CEO of the New York Times. I've spoken to a lot of journalism executives.

30:58The Times has said in an internal memo that AI companies should, quote, respect our intellectual property. Nobody wants to be resold their own content, right? Like there's not that much that needs automation. Some of it does for sure. What do you think? Well, I just don't think you can keep the technology genie in the bottle. The question is, how do you leverage it? And then who's making money? And to what extent do you deserve a portion of those proceeds? So I use ChatGPT. I'm writing my No Mercy, No Malice post this Friday is about a theme I write a lot about, struggling young men, but I'm trying to move to a series of solutions or proposals.

31:39And I'm literally after this podcast, I'm bombing to the airport, taking my boys to see universal Hollywood as bait, such that then we go see my dad. And I just don't have time to finish this thing. And I read it, and it's a bit of a mess, and I've drafted it. And I kept telling ChatGPT, I need a great closing paragraph around the struggles that young men face. And I gave it a ton of prompts. I spent a lot of time on it. And it came back with just vanilla blah. I mean, it just isn't very good. But throughout the article, I would say, can you give me four stats that help explain or the underlying drivers that help explain that three out of four deaths of despair are men?

32:15You know, suicide, drunkenness, opiates. Do you know that's accurate? That's my issue is how do you know it's accurate? Well, you have to fact check, but what it'll do is it'll give you four or six reasons of why this is a multidimensional problem and why young men are dying in a much faster clip of deaths of despair than women. And you learn from it and you do need to fact check it, but it'll prompt some really interesting ideas and thoughts. Right. It's like the library lady at the Washington Post many years ago, they had library ladies that would go get the clips, right? And they knew so much stuff.

32:50They literally cut out every story and put them in files, clips. They were called the clips. And you went and got them and read the clips before you wrote a story. That was the thing you did. Crazy when you think about it because you can look up everything now. So it was, but then you had the library lady and it was always a lady who would sort of go through, oh, well, you missed this one. What about this? She just had it in her head, right? And so it's kind of like doing research better, I guess, but you absolutely have to do your own fact checking. That's one of the issues. And there's a lot of stories now of all these gender values getting less and less accurate.

33:24Well, they hallucinate. They call it hallucinations. Not just that. It's like the numbers. There was just something I saw, and I haven't finished reading the study yet. But they're getting not just hallucinations, just wrong. Just like spewing out inaccurate information. And so, or less reliable. And I think that's happened on Google. Like you don't find quite the, you know, ultimately, the more you put in, the more stuff you have to sift through, I think. I think that's kind of a dumb way of saying. What I used to do, when I started writing these posts, I could bang them out in an hour and a half or two hours.

33:53An hour if I was drunk because I would just write more fearlessly. And now we probably spend, somebody spends four to six hours just fact-checking everything. Because it used to be 400 people reading the post. Now it's 400 ,000. And literally, everything has to be bulletproof. And when I wrote my first book, my publisher would say, you know, I had 20 or 30 pages of notes slash references. and what took me a massive amount of time is that she came back and said, Wikipedia is not a credible source. Yes, that's right. Yeah. I was going to move over to Apple. The company says it's developing its own large language model.

34:31By the way, finally, Bloomberg reports that a small team of engineers have built the chatbot called Apple GPT. So far, the company is expected to make significant AI announcement until next year. The company prefers the term machine learning over artificial intelligence. You know, Steve Sanofsky, who's a director of microlust, said if they don't get on this, they're doomed. I'm not so sure they're doomed, but this is something many people are wondering where Apple has been. It's important that Apple at least looks like they're busy in this area. Meanwhile, over Meta, they're taking the rare step of giving away AI tech.

35:01Earlier this week, Zuckerberg announced he'd released the source code for their large language model. Of course, they're trying to develop these products faster. I don't know how you feel about Apple coming in into the market. Apple is the ultimate example of, we talk about innovators in the context of it being a positive thing, but if you look at true innovators, the folks that do things first, whether it was Xerox and object-oriented computing, whether it was, I forget who invented the first MP3, but it wasn't Apple. Apple defines the term, the second mouse gets the cheese. They lay in wait, they watch stuff, they let it play out, they let the pioneers get mud on their face and arrows on their back, and then they come in with something cleaner and more friendly and with a consumer application that fits, you know, that really solves a problem.

35:46And they make a shit ton of money. They're, you know, Apple being behind, Apple is purposely behind. They wait and they want to be thoughtful about what they come out with. So I don't, whatever they do, I would guess it's a more elegant, utile and consumer friendly version of what everyone else is doing. But the fact, they're not late, they're late to everything. That's what they do. They don't grab as much data. Like Musk is going to train using Twitter data. Apple does not grab that much data from you that it can use, right? They definitely keep it, which is interesting. Do they have the kind of large language models and data that others have?

36:26I don't know. I don't even know. I'm going to call them actually. But is it your own data set or is it going out and looking at publicly available data sets? Right. That's the thing. And so, and they're, you know, privacy is their thing, right? It's their thing. So that'll be interesting. The situation goes, but these companies are moving, as you said, fast, forward fast. And these other companies are left behind. That is 100, you're 100 % right. And so whether, as you were saying, now you're using it for your stuff, these journalism companies, if Apple's doing it, Facebook's doing it, Meta's doing it, et cetera, you need to be part of this.

37:02and at the same time use the laws that do exist around copyright and everything else to stick it to them because they're going to do the same thing they did the first time to you again. Like that's what I tell every journalism and media executive. I was like, they screwed you before. Don't let them screw you the second time and own the field again because they're the ones only capable of doing these large language models. And it's very expensive what they're doing right now. So we'll see. We'll see what happens. I don't know. By the way, just so you know, Scott, I just looked this up. Karl Heinz Brandenburg is a German electrical engineer and mathematician who developed the audio data compression that became MP3, just so you know.

37:48Good to know. Good to know. Good to know. Yeah. So you know. Anyhow, but everyone else has taken advantage of his wonderful invention. Same thing with the people at Los Alamos. So much has come out of there. Have you ever tracked down the inventor of anything to thank them? No. Who did you thank? I tracked down the inventor of Accutane. Oh, wow. I had terrible acne when - Really? I had terrible acne growing up, and it was a huge source of insecurity for me. Oh, no, that's not good. Yeah. Well, it's probably the reason I developed a sense of humor. Yeah. And in my senior year of high school, freshman year of college, my dermatologist said there's something called Accutane.

38:27And I was on it for eight weeks, and I haven't had a blemish since. changed my life. Changed my life. And I tried to find this guy named Gary Peck, and it was developed by Hoffman LaRoche. And I just wrote one of those emails that they read, and I don't know if they read this, like, for example, whoever invented Depends, like literally the company's adult diapers basically get tens of thousands of letters saying, this has changed my life. And it's easy to laugh at it, but at least... Anyways, I wrote a similar letter in college saying to, I think it was sophomore Roche saying, this drug changed my life.

39:04Wow, interesting. You know, it was discontinued in 2009 because of side effects. Well, for pregnant women, I think especially. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah. And now there's lots of generic versions of the same drug. Yeah. Changed my life. But that's good for you. How cute. That's so cute. You tried to get the Accutane. I would track down the, I thought I was expecting Stakems, the Stakems head or something. The inventor. That's what I was expecting. I did not expect Accutane. That and the advantage of the two-headed I mean, that was And we're out Okay, I knew that was coming Okay, I'm moving on Are you done with the dirty talk?

39:37From the Vox Media Podcast Network Are you done with the dirty talk? Because we're going to a young listener Oh God, this is so long Why did we have to have a question from 11 when I'm especially profane? Oh, you're going to be fine Come on, all right, now listen to me Be nice, okay? Get it ready, get it together Get it together Okay, okay You've got, you've got I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman You've got mail The question comes from a youngest listener ever to write into the show. We promise we'll try to keep this section PG rated. I am fine, but Scott, I want you on your best behavior.

40:07I'll read his email. Hi, my name is Henry. I'm 10 years old. I have a question about investing. Where should I start investing the money I've saved up? I would like some money to stay invested for a while, but also like some money quickly. My dad says that you are good people to ask about this. Scott, I'm going to give this to you. And I want you to give this young man some advice because you believe in investing from an early age. So, first off, this young man should take time to recognize that he is way ahead of where other young men are. To be thinking about your future is an investment in yourself.

40:40It's an investment in your parents. It's an investment in America. So, I think it's wonderful he's thinking this way. And this is how we should think about it. When you invest, you want to think, well, what is my comparative strength? Can I invest in small companies? Do I have domain expertise around something? Most people don't. So what most people are better off doing is investing in index funds because the natural trajectory of the market is up. And what this young man has on his side is time. And that is he can survive short-term or medium-term dips. So as long as he invests in a diversified ETF or index fund, I like SPY or QQQ, he should look at every$10 that he manages to save.

41:23And that's not easy. There's a lot of fun stuff to spend$10 on, whether it's movies or gummy bears or having some fun. But if he can take 10 bucks right now at his age, when he is our age, if he just saves$10 a month and then$100 a month when he gets a little bit older, he will be a millionaire. So every time he takes 10 bucks, 50 bucks or 100 bucks, he needs to say to himself, this is the sacrifice that I am making such that I can take care of myself, live a wonderful life and take care of my parents. And the other thing he should do, the other thing he should do, in addition to investing in low-cost funds at Vanguard, SPY, QQQ, if there's a couple stocks or companies he really likes, he may want to buy a little bit of those shares on a low-cost platform like a Charles Schwab so he can learn about the company and learn about business and learn about the markets.

42:17And then finally, what he should absolutely do is go to dad and say, dad, for every 25 bucks I invest in the market, I want you to match it. This is an investment in our future. I'm going to take care of you and mom. I want you to match it. And every time he looks at that money, every time he looks at a$10 bill, he should say, what can I do with this$10? Or do I want it to be$1 ,000? Because it will be$1 ,000 if he invests it now. But that's the way to look at it. That's the way to look at it. Very nice. What about a short-term thing? He said, I want to make some money quickly. That would be stocks, picking stocks.

42:49Well, here's the thing. That just doesn't exist. And that is if you need money in the short term, keep it in T-bills or an interest-bearing account. You can now get about five and a quarter percent. But he should be leaning on his parents for all his expenses and saving. here's the thing, the people, the coolest men in the world are the ones who protect themselves and protect others. And one of the ways you protect others is through financial strength. And one of the ways you achieve financial strength is by foregoing short-term pleasure, not buying that Slurpee, not buying that coffee, not buying that Lego, going to the movies in the afternoon when you can get discounts.

43:34Try to gamify it, but set yourself an objective. See if you can save$20 and$40 and$50 and ask dad and mom to match it. And then never touch it. Try and be really disciplined and never touch it. And then when you're my age - So not Bitcoin. Not Bitcoin, kid. Don't do cryptocurrencies. I would be comfortable saying don't do that. And then here's the thing. When he's a young man and he's thinking about forming a household or has a partner or a spouse and wants to have kids and wants to do really wonderful things for his kids and wants to take care of his mother, he can look back and think, all of it was worth it.

44:08All of it was worth it. And he's so far ahead of where everybody is. I agree. My son, Louis, just sat me down and said, we got to talk about how to manage money and everything else. He's 21. And he wants to think about buying a house. He's got a little bit of money he inherited. And we talked about that. And you're very 10 years old. He did not come up to me at 10 years old and ask this. He's asking when he's 21, which is good early too, actually. So I'm going to, of course, I'm going to turn this to me. But when I was 13, my mom's boyfriend gave me$200 and said, go buy stock at one of those fancy brokerages.

44:37And I went into the first brokerage, Merrill Lynch. I sat there, got very insecure, walked across the street. And this guy named Cy Serow from Dean Winter Reynolds came up and said, hi, I'm Cy. And he spent an hour with me talking about the markets. And we bought 16 shares of Columbia Pictures at about 13 bucks a pop. And every day, I'm not joking, for two years, I would take 20 cents, go to the phone booth in the middle of the field at Emerson Junior High School and call Cy. And he would update me on how Columbia Pictures was doing. The stock is down because Casey's shadow is a bomb. The stock is up because Close Encounters of the Third Kind is a hit.

45:11And it taught me so much about the markets. The reason I get to do crazy cool things with my kids and have a lot of fun is from money I've made from the markets. So developing a passion and an understanding of the markets at a young age is going to pay dividends the rest of his life. Yep. Sounds right. It sounds right. Excellent question. Thank you, Henry. And thank you for behaving, Scott. That's a very helpful thing. So you're like Cy from Dean Witter Reynolds. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own and you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.

45:44We get a ton of them. We're going to be doing more listener mail stuff because we get so many emails. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

46:19That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com.

46:52That's O-D-O-O dot com.

47:01Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. It's the only business software you'll ever need. Odoo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload.

47:29No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

48:07Okay, Scott, you made a prediction last week. It's getting some attention. Let's throw to the clip. I think President Trump is not going to run for president under the auspices of a plea deal. All right. Any revisions you want to make? No, I want to expand on it. I'm more convinced of this. Okay. I got a lot of attention. Someone said I was stunned. I wasn't stunned. I was like, what? Where did that come from? Anyway, go ahead. Let's just do the math. It's going to become increasingly clear. Everybody talks. It's just so ridiculous when MSNBC or CNN put these polls on the screen. It doesn't matter what the nation thinks.

48:40It matters what five states think. It's essentially Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, I think Georgia decide the election. We already know the other 45 states, we know how they're voting. It's five states. And if you look at those five states, if you look at the issues in the map, Biden beats Trump easily. Easily. Unless that changes, unless that changes, if Biden is inaugurated in January of 2025, the likelihood that Trump goes to prison goes from one in 10 to like one in three. And here's his life. All his currency is the threat of him winning right now. So he has currency right now to go strike a deal that includes no jail time.

49:27And then what is his life in January of 2025? He's a billionaire. He has sycophants that think he's amazing. He can do whatever he wants. He can just have an amazing life. Well, he has to settle all of them. They're all different cases. I think they would be very creative about it. I think he has a lot of currency right now. But what happens to his currency? Do you think Jim Jordan and Marjorie Taylor Greene stand by him when he becomes the guy that literally took the Republican Party down? Not once, not twice, but arguably three times. They seem to love it. They think winning means you aren't pure enough, just so you know.

49:59I don't know. If he loses again, I just think they all abandon him. I think they drop him like second period civics, and I use civics on purpose. I don't know. They're sticking with him through two losses, two significant losses. No way. If he continues to decimate the Republican Party and he's a loser, none of these people like him or his principles. I think even his core base begins to abandon him. And then the momentum towards putting this criminal in prison becomes a torrent, a runaway flood. And at some point, a legal counsel is going to say to him, you realize it looks, the map just looks like you're going to lose.

50:36And the day you lose, you no longer have the currency to negotiate a deal because all the people standing in the way saying the DOJ has been weaponized, stop talking about it and let the DOJ do its work. All right. All right. So it's out there, Scott. I like it. It's out there. We'll see. He's depraved and he's irrational. He's not stupid. Well, he might be stupid because he continues to seem to double down, but it might be all for show. You're right. It could be. I don't know. The question is, is he a true believer in himself and his luck, or does he think his luck has run out? He does believe in his luck, and he has a lot of it.

51:08He's had a lot of it over the years. He's gotten – he's slipped out. He's a slippery character, and he slipped out of a lot of things. And so he probably is in a pattern-matching situation where he thinks he's going to slip out of these two. The world's closing in on him, and he knows that he's about to have a third indictment. Yeah. I mean, all they need is one. All they need is one. Georgia. That'll be five. Yeah, that'll be a lot. Anyway, and who knows what else is coming? He's losing to E. Gene Carroll again. All the things went against him last week. All the legal stuff went against him. Anyway, we'll see what happens.

51:37Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Enjoy yourself. Let me know how you like all these movies you're seeing, and we'll discuss it in our next show. Today's show is produced by Lara Neyman and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Under-Tot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mille Severio, and Gaddy McBain. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Who is a 10-year-old, Henry? Who is an impressive 10-year-old, Henry?

52:07Who's going to be an even more impressive 20, 30, 40, and 50-year-old man? Henry, why? Because he's going to be able to take care of himself and others because he is thinking ahead. He is showing discipline. He is showing concern for his family. He is showing an understanding of the markets. And he is showing at a very young age a wonderful sense of masculinity trying to protect himself and others. Go, Henry!

52:37support for the show comes from odoo running a business is hard enough and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other one for sales another for inventory a separate one for accounting before you know it you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters growing your business this is where odoo comes in it's the only business software you'll ever need odoo is an all-in-one fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins.

53:07Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

53:442025 was a wild year for the tech industry. AI seemed like it took over everyone's brains. It was the only thing anyone wanted to talk about. NVIDIA became the most valuable company in the world. We had some huge new video games. The Switch 2 launched. A lot of people got it. There was just a lot going on. And on The Vergecast, we are talking about the best, the worst, the most important, the biggest heel turns, all the stuff that happened in 2025 and making maybe a few predictions about what's going to happen next year. All that and more on The Vergecast, wherever you get podcasts. This series is presented by Jira by Atlassian.