Colleges Push Back, Ozempic Price Promise, and White House vs. Anthropic

23:35And SC says, no, that's an authoritarian's playbook. You go along with me, I'll make you super rich. You don't go along with me, I'll illegally punish you. The first thing is coordination. The second thing is litigation, because a lot of this is just wrong. A lot of this is, so they're trying to interpret visa rules arbitrarily. And there's a president, there's a president's against that, a legal decision, the 2022 DACA rescission. And there's constitutional protections here. The First Amendment against compelled speech or ideological litmus test for faculty or curricula, that's a violation of the First Amendment.

24:09The Tenth Amendment, spending clause that federal funds are conditioned on political compliance. They could file in sympathetic jurisdictions. They also need to weaponize, and they haven't done this, their alumni to make financial commitments such that they have the financial wherewithal, at least in the short term. Harvard is up, right? Harvard is actually up in donations. Well, also, the schools that have immediately pushed back here, it's no accident. They're the ones with the largest per capita or per student endowments because they can afford to push back. And then state-level counterweights, they could have legislative shields, attorney general lawsuits, parallel funding.

24:41And some, they need to use the courts, coordination, inspiration around fundraising, and litigation to delay this bullshit. But they all need to speak with one voice. It seems like, I don't know who the others, the nine are, but that's one, two, three, four, five, five of them. All of them should be part of this group. They should be speaking with one voice. It's sort of like the Pentagon thing last week. Just stop it. And also, I think they should go gangster. We have, universities are a corrupt cartel. They have this enforcer of the corruption, which is the accreditation. There's a board made up of the incumbents that accredits universities.

25:19And you need accreditation, otherwise you don't qualify for federal student loans. And it's just insane. They don't allow new universities. They don't accredit new ones. So what do you know? Universities have not grown. They are not adding additional universities. Students are actually, there's a bit of a birth dearth. There's a chill over international students. They think applications from international students are going to go down 20 % to 40%. And for every student that comes here to a private university, that's literally probably like, let's think about it, that's probably$400 ,000 or$500 ,000.

25:55Say the average family spends$15 ,000 when they come to America. It's like 20 or 30 families not coming here to go to Disneyland and Universal Studios and see the Grand Canyon. It's just really fucking stupid. It's a huge. And in addition, our PhD students, and I've gone on about this forever, we attract the best and brightest to make our weapons, our chemotherapy, our pharmaceuticals, our Internet applications would spill over into huge job growth. So this is just, I mean, in addition to the economic end of it, this is the bottom line. The accreditation institution should be in the forcer here and say, we're speaking with one voice, bitch.

26:28And if you decide to go make a side deal with your buddies in the administration, yeah, maybe you're even legally compliant, but we're going to make it hard for you to get accredited next year. Universities need to go a little bit gangster here and speak with one voice. Otherwise, they will be picked off one at a time. Very briefly, will they do that? No, because they're all administrators and they lack the type of leadership. Okay, I don't want – a leader needs to emerge. A leader needs to emerge. Like, there's some very innovative people. I don't know who the new president of UVA is. I really think the president of Harvard has done a decent job.

27:07There needs to be a leader who steps up and says, calls all of them and says, we either fall together or stand together. And you may have your own views on which parts of this you like or don't like. And there's a very solid argument for saying, I represent USC, so I'm going to have a dialogue. And this is what happens. The first university that cracks and agrees will get more, won't have to give up that much, and then they're going to come back for even more to number two. So they absolutely need to stand together. Right, right, right. I made it, I'm going to say, six schools out of nine. But I agree.

27:44It's kind of ridiculous. And they keep winning legally. So it seems like, you know, I think the proclivity of a lot of these places, and then we're going to move on, is let's just talk. Let's not fight. Let's talk. Yeah, let's dialogue. Let's dialogue. That's what we do. It's typical. And so that's where they're getting it. And I thought, again, what the reporters at the Pentagon did, I don't know what the result of that. We're just not going to agree. And then the people that agree are a motley, cruel, shitty, whatever, not even journalists at the Pentagon. And they look ridiculous. And I think in this case, if they stand together, as the Trump people typically fold, that always seems to be their thing as they push and push.

28:20And then it's taco. It's essentially Taco Tuesdays. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, this is an interesting story. Anthropic becomes a White House target.

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31:41Scott, we're back. The latest feud over AI regulation is between Anthropic and the White House, specifically Trump's AI czar, David Sachs. Sachs is accusing Anthropic co-founder Jack Clark of running a, quote, sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear-mongering. Oh, did you look up all those words, David? This was in response to an essay Clark wrote about balancing optimism and caution around AI. Sachs is also claiming Anthropics' position itself as a foe of the Trump administration. And while CEO Dara Amodi, who backed Kamala Harris, isn't bending the knee like other tech CEOs, Anthropics still has a number of government contracts and partnerships.

32:17Really weird, a weird attack, I thought. And specifically calling him on as someone who's supposed to be this AI czar and supposed to be pushing all the companies and everything. And of course, those that have showed up for Trump and given him money and done all these things get all the juicy bits. It's sort of an insider game here with Sachs at the center of it. And I'm sure he's quite effective at getting what he wants around cyber and, I mean, crypto and this. But to attack one company for just making normal, they want to build a brand around safety to do that. It seems bizarre to me. I guess he just wants everybody to go along with the casino that's speaking in Las Vegas.

33:01And the house is always in charge. But I don't know. Any thoughts on this? You said something that so struck me, that every accusation is an admission. Is that what you said? Confession, yeah. Is it confession? he wrote, Anthropic is running a sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear mongering. No, we have never seen regulatory capture like big tech showing up to the White House. And the tariffs are effectively a transfer from the 490 that have to figure out the sclerotic strategy to the 10, the magnificent 10 that really aren't affected by a tariff. And for him to say that because Anthropic has said, I'm not going to bend a knee on everything here.

33:42And also, let's be clear, he didn't write this. The White House wrote this. He's not going to do anything without the White House's approval. And so for some reason, Anthropic has gotten cross-eyed with the Trump administration, and he's sort of threatening them. In addition, this just at a very baseline level, we forget, the administration is not supposed to speak to punish or reward individual companies. Correct. That was what was so strange about it. They're supposed to pass laws that affect everybody or don't affect everybody. Or they take all AI companies on a tour of Asia with the Secretary of Commerce to try and build business.

34:23Or they say, here's an idea. Every AI company cannot have any technology that lets people under the age of 18 engage in synthetic relationships. You don't decide, okay, I don't have an investment, me and my venture firm and my buddies don't have an investment in Anthropic, so I'm going to go after them individually. And if you look at a more broader level, if you look at jobs, what's happening with jobs, job increases have gone to really big companies. And actually, who's getting really hurt are small businesses. And small and medium-sized businesses are responsible for two-thirds of job growth in America.

35:03Why? Because small and medium-sized businesses have no seat at the table. They don't get to go to the White House and cut sweetheart deals and get big deals and big contracts. Like, that's the whole thing. Like, I was thinking about all these businesses that don't get to go to Mar-a-Lago patio, as I said. And one of the things around this essay is, read the essay that Jack wrote, Jack Clark wrote. It is essentially like, I'm really excited about AI, but there are some things we should worry about. Like literally, he's not a foe of the Trump administration. He's just making a normal thing that everyone, and by the way, there is a growing worry about all this, like among normal people, which Sachs never, never sets his foot near.

35:45And I think if you're, if you're a parent, if you're, if you're a business, everybody is, and, and, and the stock market feels very frothy based on the spend. Everyone understands what's happening here from a stock market point of view. And all he was saying was, we should be cautious, like just because he wants to like have a little bit of regulation and put it in the hands of our elected officials, which would be Congress, to be passing some of this stuff. I think it's just, I was sort of really struck by how corrupt the situation has become. And of course, it puts, Anthropoc is going to have to do government contracts.

36:20It's going to have to do, you know, just like this is where all the big money is for these things to grow into actual businesses. And so it's really the picking and choosing. Again, socialism. And then the weirdest thing this week was these stories of Peter Thiel's has some thoughts on A-regulation. He's warning it could summon the Antichrist if we stop it. I saw that. He's giving these speeches that seem like we must do this. I'm not clear who the Antichrist is. I guess it's people who oppose the complete takeover of the government by tech billionaires. Like, it was so, I don't even understand.

36:59He's gotten increasingly religious and good for him if he finds comfort in religion. Peter Thiel's gotten religious? Oh, yeah. Yeah, very much so. There's a whole gang of them that are, like, it's a, I think it's a brand of Catholicism. It's a branch of it. And so, just the Antichrist? Are you kidding me? Like, it's just the strange. So now it's becoming in terms of like a real existential fight for the future of humanity is how they're selling it. And I think believing it, actually. I don't think this is a feint. I don't. I think it's an actual belief system. It's all very strange. You do. I use both.

37:41I try to cross-reference and use them to check each other. I use ChatGPT and I use Claude to just suit. And I like Claude better. I use cloud more because I find it's better with the written word, but chat GPT, I find has more comprehensive data. What I have also noticed is that, and sometimes it bothers me, quite frankly, is cloud is more politically correct. If I'm doing research on the shooters or the perpetrators of political violence, sometimes if you phrase the question wrong, it comes back and says, I can't provide information on attempted murders or whatever. And then, you know, and then last night I got very upset.

38:18that it wouldn't give me any information on, I wanted to see images of lesbian tech journalists getting facials in Korea, and it just wouldn't go there. Oh, you just got that. You just got that. That just registered. Anyways, it is more politically correct. And so my sense is that at Anthropic, they're sort of trying to be the good guys. And this guy just sort of steps out of line and doesn't line up for the, you know, it doesn't line up to be part of the mafia, that David Sachs is clearly a soldier of the dawn in Washington and the degree is sign up and you're going to make a shit ton of money at the expense of the lower 490.

38:59And it seems like the head of Anthropica, good for him, it's not signed up and says, well, actually I have some views and I have some concerns because the, you know, I think the collision personally between synthetic relationships and AI is just so fucking frightening. I just think it's, and they're not talking about it. I think it's gonna make it seem like phones and social media were just an Easter parade. When all of a sudden we noticed that everybody or a third of the people in our life have disappeared and are no longer coming down for dinner, no longer talking to us because they have decided that their synthetic relationship knows everything and knows them and it can run their lives.

39:43And anyways. This is what Thiel is much more profound. Let me read a quote, because one of the things is the hostility towards technology is his focus. And he, let me just read this quote, because according to some Christian traditions, the Antichrist is a figure that will unify humanity under one rule, but this is from Wired, before delivering us to the apocalypse. For Thiel, its evil is pretty much synonymous with any attempt to unite the world. How might such an Antichrist rise to power, Thiel asks. by playing on our fears of technology and seducing us into decadence with the Antichrist slogan, peace and safety.

40:20In other words, it would yoke together terrified speeches by promising to rescue it from the apocalypse. And he's like blaming Nick Bostrom, who's an AI doomer. I'm not a fan of Nick Bostrom either, but this is so strange. And to fend it off, we have to stop people like this, I guess. like anthropic, like any AI doomer. And if there's any, it's just, it's so strange and disturbing that this guy is at the center of power and is influencing all these people. And of course, South Park made fun of him. Peter Thiel is worried about the Antichrist, which was a very funny episode. I had some experience with this.

41:03I'm not, no joke. I had a dream and the devil showed up in my dreams and whispered, I'm coming for you. And so I whispered back, I whispered back, that's gay. Why should we be worried about the most powerful people in the world that have an unbelievable command of godlike technology, who basically own the vice president, who are becoming increasingly theocratic? I know. No worries there. No worries there. Well, I recommend South Park's Peter Thiel and the Antichrist. It's really funny. It was really, really funny. Anyway, it's worrisome, and that's enough. He's one odd duck. Odd duck, odd duck.

41:46I'd like to go to a strip club with him. Have you ever partied with him? No, I've been to a party at his house, yes. I had an argument with him at it. Anyway, it was a long time ago, or something. I can't even remember. It was many moons ago, many iterations of Peter Thiel ago. I'm exactly the same. This is an interesting story. GLP-1 drug stocks fell late last week after Donald Trump said in an Oval Office press So the price of Ozempic, or as he called it, the fat loss drug, would soon drop to$150 a month. Dr. Mehmet Oz, who's now running Medicare and Medicaid, quickly jumped into Clarify that's not a done deal yet.

42:19The clarification didn't do much to calm investors. Novo, Nordisk, and Eli Lilly both lost billions in market value. The price of Ozempic is currently around$1 ,000 a month. Talking about the implications, the price really goes down to$150. I'm of two minds. I think it should be$150, right? right? Like it should be really inexpensive for people who, especially people who are overweight, to figure out a way because, again, with the secret thing, actually every doctor I talk to talks about the importance of these drugs on the general population. Probably it's the antichrist because it will unify us in health.

42:51But what do you think of this? You were one of the first people to talk about the implications of GLP-1 drugs, but the prices remain stubbornly high and out of reach of most Americans on a monthly basis? Like every year when I do my prediction stack, which I'm about to do in a month for the next year, I predict a technology of the year. And in 22 and 23, I said it was AI. First time I've done back-to-back on a technology. And in 24, I said, the technology that's going to have more impact on a ground level than AI in 24 is GLP-1 drugs. I think these things are nothing short of revolutionary. I mean, the fact that if you think about when we came off the savanna, we didn't have access to trans fats.

43:36We didn't have access to mating opportunities to replace. So we become addicted to food, to porn, to gambling because our instincts have just not caught up to institutional production. And these things are literally scaffolding on our instincts. And when you go into the grocery store, you not only buy less food, you buy more lettuce and kale and yogurt and you buy less cookies and soda. It's just, how does it know how to turn off the parts of your brain that says, I need to eat chocolate-covered almonds late night after my five milligram edible, which I did last night. Yeah, I had Milk Duds, but go ahead.

44:08I love Milk Duds. Ooh, those are really bad for you. I know, but I don't. Anyways, the, yeah, you're not going to find those in Korea when you're getting your facial. I know, that's why I had them here last. I found them in La Vegas, but go ahead. There you go. So, oh, in the minibar? No. Oh, God. That's my favorite thing with my son is we bond. We go back to the hotel and we raid the minibar. anyways what was disappointing about glp1 at least initially in the united states was the region that had the greatest penetration of glp1 was also ironically richest the thinnest and thinnest and richest go one and together it was it was ladies of lunch on the upper east side trying to lose that last tent that is not who needs glp1 i believe a decent government program would be for medicare to repeal the legislation that says medicare cannot negotiate on drugs We spend two to four times more on Ozempic than they do in other nations, despite the fact that Nova Nordic produced, which is a European company, we have American-produced GLP-1 drugs.

45:09I would love to see just the federal government do what it's supposed to do, and that is help prevent a tragedy of the commons and use their purchasing power to take these drugs down to 50 bucks a month. Because then it becomes accretive. You will save more than that on food. And the one thing Americans share is not military service. It's not their ethnicity. It's not their religion. The one thing we share as Americans is that 70 % of us are overweight or obese. And if you wanted to figure out a way to save$100 billion,$200 billion, a half a trillion dollars a year, you would get America down to Japanese-like levels of obesity where only 4 % of the Japanese are obese.

45:52It's actually more than that because I have to say in doing all this series I'm doing, ultimately it's food, exercise, being rich, and sleep and stuff like that ultimately for longevity. But every expert I talk to is like, these drugs are miraculous in terms of getting us to the place we need. Besides the really cool stuff that's happening with cancer and AI and CRISPR. It's here. This is the thing that every single— And not just that, but around issues around stroke, around—and taking it in a small amount. Some of my doctors are like, you need to take a little bit in a small amount. Microdose.

46:34Right. I know a ton of people that aren't fat, that microdose FLP-1. But it's more addiction, right, and drinking and cognitive stuff, all this stuff that is around it. And of course, it does worry some people that it could like make a left turn like fen-fen or whatever. But most every doctor I talk to is very much like not worried about this drug. It's a really interesting development. About two years ago, I got invited to a dinner to speak at a dinner and it was neuroscientists. And I thought, wow, I would like to be in there with a bunch of neuroscientists in case I ever get sick. It's not a bad idea to have relationships with really good doctors.

47:18And so it was a dinner. There was about 16 neuroscientists and me there. And the head of this hospital, I think probably a couple people who funded the gold circle of whatever it was, Langone. And I noticed about an hour into the dinner, I noticed, I looked around the table, and all the plates were half eaten. All of them. No one had finished their meal. And I said, I can't help but have noticed. And then people had pushed away their food or asked it to be taken away. And I'm like, I said, this is very unusual. No one's eating their food. And I said, can I ask a question? And obviously, it was off the record.

47:58I said, who here is on GLP-1 drugs? And they all looked at each other sheepishly. And like eight of the 14 folks, it was 12 men and two women, raised their hands. And that is supposed to be the tell for if a drug works. is its adoption by the medical community itself. But these things, if you were to stop 10 people on the street in America and find 10 hardcore users of AI and 10 people on GLP-1 drugs and query them about the impact on their life emotionally, psychologically, economically, I think GLP-1 is having a much bigger impact on people than AI. I'm talking about getting it down to the regular, you know, the people.

48:39I did an interview. We should give it out. Well, that's the thing. I did an interview with a nurse who was 350 pounds and she went down, but they, what they did. And then I interviewed her doctor, who's also a well-known weight loss doctor. And it was a nutritionally focused doctor, but it was combined with learning how to cook at fresh foods and exercise. Like it's the whole package. It's the whole package and not just, this is not, you just take the drug and that's it. and that's what was I mean I was of all the interviews I've done for this thing that interview was the most moving because I had dinner with her family and one thing that was really interesting is she she said to me in the kitchen she goes I was embarrassed I couldn't do things with them like they went to the Grand Canyon it's a very fit family except for her and they went and hiked and I couldn't do it and I'd have two seats on an airplane you know the whole the whole story of overweight people and and and she goes I was I was so embarrassed for them.

49:39I was embarrassing to them. And I repeated it. She hadn't ever told her family. And they were heartbroken that she felt that way. It was a really, I was very moved. You know what I mean? And it wasn't like I could, because she tried everything. Like she tried all the diets and everything else. And I have to say, she has such a better life. Like, and it's not someone who has a lot of money. Very modest house in Massachusetts. conducive, nurse, hardworking, and knows about health, right? Is not someone who's not aware of the issues. And just, it seems like she's going to live a lot longer. That's just the facts, right?

50:18And so I was like, the combination of the drug with lifestyle changes that, and the drug allows you to do the lifestyle changes more successfully is a really interesting thing. But what do you think of Trump doing this? This is like crazy. Like, although it's kind of good. Like in this case, I'm like, fine. I love this topic. So let me back up. The reason why Gavin Newsom will likely be president in 2028 is the same reason why we should have a federal program to get GLP-1 drugs out to everyone that needs them after negotiating a ridiculously low price. And it's the following. America is an exceptionally and dangerously and unfairly looks this country.

51:00And one of the strongest forward-looking indicators of whether a child is going to suffer from adulthood depression is if they're overweight. And also the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is not promiscuous around recommending drug intervention for children, has recommended, right, has embraced GLP-1 for children. Because here's the bottom line, when you're obese in America, on many levels, you're fucked. You're going to have trouble finding a mate. You're going to have trouble getting hired. People immediately look at you, and regardless of how many subscriptions to the Atlantic or the New York Times, they immediately subconsciously go, weak.

51:42And it's unfair. And then you look in the mirror and you go, I'm weak and I have no control of my life. And in my view, after negotiating a radically low price and playing them off against each other, every household in America that is suffering from obesity, not a woman looking to lose her last 10 pounds, but if a doctor says obesity is a presage for diabetes for you, it is getting in the way of your mental health, it is getting in the way of your ability to exercise, this shit should be everywhere. It's like fluoride and water. Put the GLP-1 in effectively, metaphorically, in water. This would be one of the most accretive things emotionally and financially we could do in the United States over 36 months.

52:23One of the things that I am against is like what Pete Hegseth did, fat generals. Like making it awful, figuring out ways for people to have a better life is different than using fat shaming and everything to do it. Yeah, no fat shaming. I don't understand. I'm not. I'm just saying that's what I'm saying. And then the second thing is, what's interesting about the Trump administration, RFK Jr. is against all this, and Oz is on the other side. So this should be a really interesting discussion, I think. It'll be interesting to see what happens here, because RFK thinks you should just jog and eat, you know, kill your own animals.

52:57Well, yeah, but RFK is blessed with good genetics. Exactly. And Mehmet is a doctor, and he sees some people, you know, everybody has people who are overweight in their lives. and we immediately look at them and we unfairly think they're weak. A lot of them are in food deserts. A lot of them don't have the money to do anything but eat cheap calories, which are fat. And quite frankly, a lot of them are just born really big. They're just, you know, they're born big. So we need empathy. Having said that, Cara, I do think there was a movement that was unproductive. And unfortunately, there's no, the pendulum is never at the middle where it's like, okay, let's have empathy for these people.

53:33Let's figure out programs that give them the capability. Let's give them GLP-1 drugs. But when the industrial food complex, including Coca-Cola and McDonald's, which, by the way, is the stock price of Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, McDonald's, KFC, they're all almost entirely correlated to obesity in the U.S. And so what did they do? And also, many of the major clothing brands are very much tied to plus-size clothing. What did they do? They started to romanticize and celebrate obesity. And I hate to say this, and I'll get negative comments for it. You will. You're not finding your truth. You're finding a fucking ventilator in diabetes.

54:12So while we have to have empathy for these people, let's at least be honest and say, folks, this is not something to romanticize and celebrate. No, but it was because of the hatefulness that went on for decades before. I think it's okay to— It was for money, Kara. No, maybe so. Maybe so, but the kind of, I've had heavy people in my family, it's hateful, the kind of things people say. I agree with you. And now they have a tool to help get people there. And it is no question the right thing to do. It's just that making people feel ugly about themselves is never a prescription to good health. That's my thing.

54:49We agree with that. But should we have done away with the Presidential Fitness Awards that celebrates fitness because we think of it as fat shaming? Trump doesn't exercise. Look, if he ends up dropping the price, I'm good with that. That's my question. I used to be very motivated to get the presidential fitness award, the third, the fourth, and I didn't get the fifth years because I had a growth spurt and I couldn't do the pull-ups. And it was very motivating for me to be fit and strong. Just one last thing. I'm virtue signaling right now. Pharmaceuticals, GLP-1 can do what there was a drug that changed my life.

55:23Changed my life. Harris Fisher. And I'm still addicted to it. What's the definition of addiction? Something you continue to engage in despite the fact it damages your life. That's right. What's your one last thing? I'm addicted. And baby, if this addiction is wrong, I don't want to be right. Loving you is wrong. What are you getting that facial? Anyways. All right. A drug I had, until the age of 40, I had never taken an Advil. I just never took any sort of drug. I think I saw the doctor eight times up until the age of 40. Okay. I just didn't. My parents didn't have money. Okay, you said short story.

56:02Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. A drug literally changed my life. Any guesses? And it has to do with aesthetics. I don't know. Milk toads? From the age of 13 to 19, if I was ever able to maneuver using a mix of humor, luck, and persistence, able to get a date, this is what you did on a date. Liquor. You would take a woman to a movie. And I remember going to see Grease with Melanie Burke. Moreno Burke. Excuse me, Moreno Burke. That's not a short story. And I was so excited. I went down to this ridiculous preppy store I'd saved up. I got my mom to give me her credit card. I couldn't spend more than$30.

56:39And I bought nice corduroys and a polo, Ralph Lauren polo shirt with the actual polo logo on it. And I bought Sperry Top Siders. I was just so fucking ready. Got it. And I go into Grease. and every time I went into a movie on the few dates I had, I would have to purposely plan, do I go into the aisle first or do I let her go into the aisle first? And you know what that was based on? What? Which side of my face had fewer zits than the other? Oh, okay. Every time I went to the movies, I would strategically plan which side am I going to sit on because my acne was so bad, I would have to think, which side is it less grotesque?

57:19Oh, wow.

57:49and down their back and their throat. And all you can think about when you're talking to someone is they're staring at my zits and they hurt and they're painful. And then nine weeks, 11 weeks later, I have perfect, beautiful skin. And all of a sudden girls are smiling at me. And all of a sudden I don't think about my skin. And all of a sudden shaving isn't like land, isn't like navigating a fucking landmine. It's the only letter I've ever, the first letter I'd ever written to a corporation. I wrote to Hoffman LaRoche and said, this has absolutely changed my life. And now, and I did this about, I feel like it was two months ago, seven months ago, I was at a gas station in Nantucket where they actually pump your gas.

58:29And there was a young man and he had terrible cystic acne. And I said, look, I'm not, I'm probably overstepping my boundaries here. I had terrible acne. I took a drug called Accutane and it cleared it up in 11 weeks, and it changed my life. And now we have Scott. You know, celebrities are microdosing Accutane now, just so you know. But my point is, I think that GLP-1 can do that. I kind of think there's an equivalence between terrible acne and obesity. And if you can give people back their confidence, their sense of self, their, I mean, there's nothing more important to the young person. But let's not make people feel badly.

59:07When you see this interview, she tried everything. But in any case, we think this is fascinating. We'll keep covering it. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk about a major security hack. No, not the loo.

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1:02:14Scott, we're back with more news. Cybersecurity and network security company F5 says nation-state hackers broke into its systems this summer, exfiltrating files and stealing some source code. The breach has been blamed on state-backed hackers from China. Over 80 % of the Fortune Global 500, as well as universities and credit unions are F5 customers. This is as big as SolarWinds as many people I've talked to this week, actually. F5 is a publicly traded company, which would usually mean it's required to disclose cyber attacks within four business days, but the DAJ allowed the company delay notification, which can do for attacks that post national security risks.

1:02:49Really disturbing. And I'll note, early Monday morning, a major AWS outage took down services like Amazon, Snapchat, and ChatGPT. There was no indication of malicious, anything malicious at play. But again, every single cyber person I talked to this week was like, this is bad. This is another bad. Our landscape is so porous for hackers from state back, especially from China. It was another disturbing thing that they didn't have to say anything, that people couldn't act. And we are so exposed from a security point of view. This was a really bad attack for people to understand how dependent we are on these kind of things and how vulnerable.

1:03:34What I don't understand is, and it's easy to huckle from the cheap seats, is I've met some of our folks who run our cybersecurity or our cyber defense. and they're very popular conferences. And by the way, most of them have been fired because they're not Republicans, which makes no fucking sense to me. But what they all say is that we actually have the best. And what I don't understand is why isn't it like nuclear weapons in the sense that if they do something like this, shouldn't we be hitting them back three times as hard until we all come to sort of a detente? We may be. But they were in there.

1:04:09One of the things that's classic of these things, they've been in there for two years. And then they place things there and then disappear and erase where they were. And that's what they've been doing. And so, you know, there's very little known because they keep everything quiet. And the question is, what should people know? What should we understand about it? Everyone considers this as big as SolarWinds, which happened in 2020, the end of 2020. And so, you know, I suspect lots of stuff is going on behind the scenes with this stuff. But again, the cuts in by this administration, again, exposes us.

1:04:48The solar winds happened in the Trump administration, right? It was the end of it was before Biden, just before Biden got into office. And it's the same thing. The idea of like exposing we we have such an exposed everything between our infrastructure. The surface of attack is bigger here. The surface attack is bigger, and we do not have the people in place in the government as much. I mean, remember he fired Chris Krebs, who's—I love Chris Krebs, and, you know, a lot of people. But we're—you know, all this is all interconnected, including with the federal government. And so the Chinese have been very successful.

1:05:27I suspect we have been hacking them, too, et cetera, et cetera. But there's broad risks here that I think as a country we have not taken seriously given our dependence on this. And even the ones that aren't deemed malicious like this one this morning, if AWS has a major outage, all the services get affected, whether it's the stuff we use day to day. And so, so much, it's something we really do need. We should talk about more, and it's complex, obviously, but our country is much more exposed than people realize. I'll just note that. Well, our tech infrastructure, technology loves scale and compatibility, right?

1:06:08So everything's running on the same source code and it can be more fluid and more frictionless. And to their credit, we have 50 states and 50 different electoral procedures and 50 independent technologies tallying votes. And a lot of people or tech companies have said this should all be on one system. And the best defense against that is that, okay, it's feasible that one of us gets hacked, but it's very unlikely all 50 are going to get hacked because we're all on different systems. And just as technology loves scale, it creates more vulnerability because you have entire power grids now that are essentially, if someone figures out how to hack that power grid, you could have three states in the Southeast go down.

1:06:50and what this requires, which we don't have, it requires skill and resources of which we have more than anyone in the world. What we don't have is the long game. So for example, I think the greatest anti-terrorist precision attack in history was the Pager attack against Hezbollah. That was years in the making. And what the Chinese do is the long game. My guess is a lot of, every time there's a real, there's a, there's a cyber attack. My guess is it was put in place or the wheels were put in motion two or three years ago. And unfortunately, because of this political back and forth and firing and hiring, it is much more difficult.

1:07:25And also just American mentality focused on quarterly earnings. American mentality does not play the long game. And the Chinese, you know, the Chinese have a 50-year plan. So they already have assets on the ground here trying to implant listening devices, security code, routers, that maybe in two, three, five years they activate. Because what you don't want to do to raise red flags, red flags are a function of not only the activity, but the cluster and the concentration of them. And so if it's just one or two small infiltrations and then there's not a follow-up, people don't worry as much about it.

1:08:03And part of, there's so many ways that our short-term, quite frankly, thinking helps us, But on a lot of levels, it hurts us. And this is one of those ways. These guys are in for the long game. They'll start putting in place the infrastructure for cyber attacks that they won't be able to activate for five or seven or 10 years. Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, one more quick break and we'll be back for wins and fails.

1:08:30When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp. The secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th. And never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com. Megan Rapinoe here. This week on A Touch More, we've got WNBA champion Jackie Young, a.k.a. I.A. Jack on the show. We're so excited. We'll find out how she's been celebrating her third championship, how the Aces turned their season around, and whether they're the greatest dynasty ever.

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1:10:16For tickets, head to PivotTour.com. See you there.

1:10:26Okay, Scott, some wins and fails. We've got to be quick because Kara's got another interview soon. Why don't you start? Well, the obvious one here is, and we spent some time talking about it, I do think that the protests were an enormous win for America. We've all been just so desperate for some pushback and wondering where Americans are. Well, 7 million turned out, and that's about 2 % of the population. Supposedly, I don't know where this test comes from, but supposedly when you had 3.5%, which would be 11 million, that's when real action starts. But I just don't think there's any getting around it.

1:11:04A lot of Republican congressmen and senators must have noticed that and said, okay, there's some real issues here. So I thought at a minimum, it just gave a lot of comfort to Americans that people value our democracy. They value peaceful protest and they're resisting and they're willing to give up their own time. And they really do value the blessings, the liberties and the, you know, the prosperity. So, look, that's my win. I thought it was really, really wonderful and inspiring. And I tried to take my kids to the tube station where their mother slept to talk about fascism. They wanted nothing to do with it.

1:11:41But there were protests in Germany. There were protests in the UK. They were all incredibly peaceful, incredibly positive, incredibly optimistic. It was just a good look for America, a very good look for a democracy, a very good look for people who want to resist against Trump. That's my win. That's an easy one. The fail is George Santos, the disgraced representative. His seven-year present sentence has been commuted by Trump after serving just three months. He pled guilty to wire fraud and aggravated identity theft. Look, he lied. He lied. He committed crimes. He was an embarrassment to the government.

1:12:18But the thing that really chased me here, he's no longer required to pay back more than$370 ,000 in court-ordered restitution to his victims. So the people he lied to and stole from, he no longer has to pay them back. In addition, he was only the sixth lawmaker in U.S. history to be expelled from Congress after an ethics report was released outlining his behavior in 2023. He was also the first to be expelled before being convicted of federal crimes or supporting the Confederacy. So just some of his claims. He claimed his grandparents were Holocaust survivors. They were not. He claimed that the CCP kidnapped his five-year-old niece.

1:12:57That is not true. He claimed to be Jewish, then Jew-ish. He claimed he was a model for Vogue. That's my favorite. He claimed he had a university degree. By the way, he said he went on a volleyball scholarship. That guy hasn't jumped since 1988. He claimed he had a brain tumor. And some of the more outlandish things he said or did well after being in Congress, he spent campaign funds on Botox, Hermes, and my favorite, OnlyFans. He started selling$200 custom videos on Camellano. I don't think that's that bad. He had a staffer impersonate Kevin McCarthy's chief of staff to raise money. And he committed ID theft by using donors' credit cards to make purchases.

1:13:37So, and what's so sad about this. He's just a scam artist. There are some people who are currently incarcerated who have applied for clemency. And some of them have done their best to compensate their victims, show that they're on the right track, and are deserving of clemency. and because they're trying to get marjorie taylor green back in camp on camp and she seemed to like george santos they move a guy who showed no remorse who is a fucking embarrassment to the constitution to america they push this guy to the front of the line and the people he stole from are shit out of luck such that we can such that the president can kiss marjorie taylor green's ass This is such an abuse of the whole, the basic understanding of what clemency is for.

1:14:27The clemency in pardoning is a wonderful thing. We get it wrong all the time in our justice system. The justice system is a powerful, but it is a crude instrument. And we find out, new evidence comes to light, or we find out that for whatever reason, strange laws resulted in a guy who stole an antenna from a K-mark gets issued a life sentence. and these things are taken seriously and very talented people review these things. And we're just making a mockery of the system. Anyways, my fail is that Representative George Santos, his sentence was commuted because of the president's attempt to get Marjorie Taylor Greene to stop talking about the Epstein files.

1:15:07And by the way, my favorite sign was GOP, guardians of pedophiles. Anyway, my fail is these issues around these tech companies and safety. like pushing back against the idea there should be safety. But it's more than that. There's a great story in the New York Times today about as tech companies build data centers worldwide to advance artificial intelligence, vulnerable communities have been hit by blackouts and water shortages. They're not just, the idea that we are against advancing technology at any, and then they say at any cost, is ridiculous. They're setting it up so that they get all the juicy bits and they hurt people around the globe.

1:15:4760 % of the data centers are outside of the U.S. And there's lots of projects coming all over the place around the world. But it takes enormous amounts of power for computing and water to cool the computers. And these people are, you know, the famous one was Musk going into a community, I think, in Tennessee and polluting it because he wanted to get his thing up faster than anyone else. And all the governments are angling to get to give them cheap land and tax breaks and things like that. But there is very little transparency around how they're building these data centers. And it's the same idea.

1:16:19They don't care about safety of anybody because they themselves are doing things. And it's really hurting individual communities. And they go into vulnerable communities to be able to do what they need to do. And it's very dangerous. And they're not really investing in the communities because most of these things use very few people. And so these plans just sail through. And it's the same idea. If Anthropic wants to talk about safety or if we want to talk about safety, it doesn't mean we hate it. It means that we care about the citizens more than lining the pockets of David Sachs and his friends.

1:16:53I have two very quick wins. I've got to give a credit to both Lorraine Powell Jobs and Ron Conway. He resigned from the board of Salesforce's philanthropic arm over Mark Benioff's original comments about bringing National Guard into San Francisco. Lorraine Powell Jobs also wrote an essay, Beware of Philanthropists Who Want to Control in Exchange for Their Giving. And it was a great essay about that. I really give kudos to them for stepping out rather a lot against Mark's stupid comments. He now doesn't believe the National Guard needs to come. He walked himself back, but he tarnished himself. So I give credit.

1:17:31Lots of people complained, but it's hard to go out on a limb if you're in that group of people, and they did. But I actually want to give the win to The Diplomat. The new season's downloaded to Netflix, and Keri Russell is so good. It's such a good, and Allison Janney and Bradley Whitford. Everybody on that cast is amazing. This is so you have a crush on Keri Russell. I love her. She's a fan of Pivot, by the way. I don't have a crush on her. Actually, I have a crush on the whole show because it's so diplomat-y. I wanted to be in the State Department, so I love the whole—it's sort of like my—I liked Homeland, too.

1:18:00Is she going to Korea with you? No, she's not. But we're going to have—she's a fan of Pivot. Look at you, Lida. No, I'm not. I just say Keri Russell and you start smiling. No, no, no. Look at you. It's okay. You're wrong. Not my type. But nonetheless— Even though you're 80, you still have hormones. No, I do not. She's not my type. But— I've been taking that estrogen. I just want to say it's a great show. And lots of people like this show. Stop it. Everyone likes it. As usual, you turn something beautiful into ugliness. But it's a great. Never seen it. Never seen it. All right. It's great. You would love it.

1:18:30I watched four episodes of Slow Horses last night. Okay. If you like that. Do you like Homeland? Love Homeland. Okay. You'll love this. The writer of this is Deborah Kahn. She's so talented. There was one line. This is why I love it. There's all these great lines. Besides, she doesn't comb her hair, et cetera. And they make jokes about it. But there's one line. I'm sure she looks just awful. She's the one that like, yeah, but yeah, that's, let me guess. She's like really sloppy and still looks like a nine out of 10. 11 out of 10. But she's really good. She's had a great career. She's had really interesting roles, including the Americans and things like that.

1:19:07But I don't want to talk about Carrie Dressel because I think she's great. But I have to say there's a lot, there's a lot of lines in it. The writers are terrific. And one reminded me of you, which is you're about, they're talking about her husband, Hal, and I'm blanking on the actor's name who played it, but who's great too. But she goes, you're about as subtle as a kidney stone, which I immediately thought of you, Scott. I appreciate that. You're about as subtle as a kidney stone. Anyway, I love that show. And now you're making it ugly, which is very sad. I have comments on all of this. Do you have to go get a pedicure with Boutros Gale?

1:19:41No, no. Go ahead. Very quickly. Very quickly. That's impossible for me. Okay, first off, the data centers. The data centers are nothing but, again, another elegant transfer of wealth from middle-class homes to big tech. How is that going to happen? They are picking these areas where they are, quote-unquote, desperate for jobs or where the congressperson representing that area wants to get some of that AI money sent to their PAC for regulatory capture, for campaign fundraising. And the bottom line is these data centers might as well be dark during the day. They create very few jobs. What they do is they will create jobs to get built, but they create very few ongoing jobs.

1:20:17What they do is they are so power hungry that you are going to see 50, 100, 200, 300 percent increases in electricity costs in these areas. And what will end up happening is the government, these people will get outraged. So the government will step in and will subsidize the electricity costs of the grid, which is nothing but a transfer of wealth from taxpayers, especially people consuming electricity in those regions, to big tech firms. Everything in America right now is trying to prop up 10 firms who have been responsible for 77 % of the S &P's gain this year, which is the only cloud cover that Donald Trump has to send federal troops into peaceful cities.

1:20:53This will be another elegant transfer of wealth. And then what was your second one? Kerry Russell. Oh, wait, Kerry Russell, the diplomat? Oh, no, Mark Benioff. Benioff, yeah. Just so I can fill our YouTube comments with a bunch of hate, I love Lurie and Powell Jobs. I thought it was an elegant article. I think Ron Conway is fantastic. He invested in two of my companies. This is how we lose 28. And that is, I get it. Mark Benioff said something stupid. He has since apologized. And now everyone is doing what Democrats do. They're more interested in a purity test. They're more interested in grabbing social virtue.

1:21:31They're more interested in getting their guardians of God's pin. They're more interested in going after a white billionaire than they are around being effective. Mark Benioff is a huge ally for San Francisco. He is a huge ally for Democrats. He fucked up and he's being treated like an apostate. And this is exactly what is wrong with Democrats. Those essays were before. They said things before. And they didn't want to affiliate with him. If you're Mark Benioff and you have literally spent 20 years trying to be the most generous guy in California, supportive of progressive policies, supportive of Democratic politics, and then all these Democrats wave in with their finger because he fucked up and he did fucked up.

1:22:09And by the way, he's apologized. Let's just talk about the reality of this. Do you think Mark Benioff is now going to be really, really in it to win it and support Democratic candidates right now? Or is he thinking, you know what, guys? Go fuck yourselves. This is what Democrats do. We have decided, maybe you're my ally, but you're holding the gun wrong. So I'm going to go after you rather than the real enemy. Could we be any more fucking stupid? Scott, he asked for National Guard to come to San Francisco. He fucked up. And he's also been an enormous, an enormous supporter of democratic ideals and politics.

1:22:44And here's the thing. I'm not agreeing with you. Oh, sorry. One strike, you're out. We're Democrats. And guess what? J.D. Vance in 2028. This is exactly how we lose the election. No, I think we should. Democrats are much more concerned with grabbing social virtue than they are of actually getting shit and done. It's not social virtue to be critical of your own allies. It's not. It's normal. There is such a pylon right now. No, you're so far down the Trump world. There is such a pylon. Oh, yeah. Me and Trump were very tight. No, no, but the Trump world is you don't apologize for anything. He did apologize.

1:23:15He kind of did, but that's okay. Whatever. He said, I'm sorry. Yes. He said my comments were real-time, and I'm sorry. And now everyone's writing op-eds about how billionaires and philanthropy shouldn't rule the world. No, that op-ed was written, by the way, before, and I think it influenced him, by the way, FYI. And I think there is so much there is so much there is so much hate right now out there from people who see an opportunity to pile on and grab social virtue at no risk to themselves. Guess who I interviewed? Fraction. I've got to go. I interviewed over the weekend. Bernie Sanders. He says we shouldn't even go in with the billionaires.

1:23:52The lady giving you a squid facial in Seoul. I interviewed Bernie Sanders. He's like, this is the problem with going with the rich people and just saying he's just. OK, that's going to be a good idea. to help us demonize rich people. Not demonize them, but come on. Really are. Billionaires shouldn't exist, according to Bernie Sanders. No, no, no. Rich people had far too much of an influence in both parties. Far too much. Far too much. And that's what's got to end. That's Citizens United. Yes, I get it. But they've had far too much. But in the meantime, let's try and get as many billionaires on our side.

1:24:24No, no. We've got to like build, we have to build a coalition of everybody. Some people saying maybe it would be smart to bring Elon Musk back into the Democratic Party are taking a great Democrat who fucked up and basically putting him, casting him onto an island. They won't let him into the Trump gang anyway, so it doesn't matter. That said, we should have not—there's been too much billionaire influence of all the billionaires on all sides. And it has to stop. Anyway, we're not going to argue with this. Okay, for Citizens United, you're saying we should—I agree with you. We should do away with Citizens United.

1:24:57Okay. I'm up for it. Let's end on that. There's common ground. By the way, Mike Johnson, swear in Democratic Representative Grijalva, you squirmy little bitch. Put her in office. That is awful. Put her in office because you don't want the Epstein. What a lie. What a lie. The guy running the country right now is in an unmarked grave. Jeffrey Epstein is running the country right now. I swear. Put her in office. She was elected by people. I want the people to speak. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551-PIVOT.

1:25:33Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week on on with the Karen Smith, I just said I spoke with Senator Bernie Sanders just as he got back from the No Kings rally. Let's listen to what he had to say about pushing back against billionaires. Let's listen to him. Money is important. I'm a politician. You don't need zillions of dollars to run a campaign. You you can win. But that is, and then of course, ultimately you got to get rid of the Citizens United, which allows billionaires to buy elections. So a heel turn on billionaires, just ignore it, just say good for them. If they want to contribute and play a role, that's fine.

1:26:08I mean, I appreciate that. I'm not, you know, there are a lot of decent people who happen to be billionaires. They think that democracy and truth is important. God bless them. But the future of this country depends on working class people standing up and taking on the billionaire class, which is getting richer and richer. I agree with all of that. See? There you go. Now, see? You didn't think that that was the case. He's very reasonable. Anyway, and reminder— I like Bernie. I know. I do, too. Lots of people do. It was amazing that a lot of Bernie bros went to Trump. I think they're coming back in a lot of ways, a lot of his messages.

1:26:42He's coming around. Suddenly, everyone's coming around to Bernie. And a reminder, we're going on tour. We'll be going to Toronto, Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and L.A. Visit pivottour.com for tickets. There's very few left, actually. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, next time I see you, I will have had my shrimp semen facial. I'll let you know how it goes. Read us out. Today's show was produced by Larry Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Grubbin. Ernie Nertod entered you this episode.

1:27:14Jim Mackle edited the video. Additional support from Brad Sylvester and Rosemary Ho. thanks also to Drew Burrows Mia Silverio and Dan Shillon Nishat Kuroa as Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media you can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod we'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business Kara I call my penis Bernie Sanders because it leans far left and stands up for everyone That's good. That's bad.