Disney’s Billion Dollar Punch, AppGPT, and Guest Chasten Buttigieg

23:57Big immersive experiences. That didn't work. So it's facing all kinds of, all of them are facing these, you know, cutting titles, et cetera, et cetera, and getting this stock price up. Iger's under real pressure here. It was going to make, it's going to make ESPN available as a streaming channel. He called, Iger called the move inevitable. They got, speaking of kicked in the teeth, at least, other linear stuff. It's been subsidized by profits from linear TV, all this spending on streaming and operating income from linear TV fell 35 % because of advertising. They were very adamant that it would come back and they were best positioned.

24:36I would tend to agree with them on that. So it's really tough. He's in a tough business situation as these transitions are happening. They're all incredibly challenged. It's the perfect storm. You know, you've seen, I mean, first off, if you want to be angry, be angry at TikTok. We have this tsunami of human capital that's come in and brought down the margins across every industry. You have anyone under the age of 30 is not watching ad-supported television. You had Netflix figure out a way similar to Amazon to convince the marketplace to value growth over profits. So they became kind of capital as a weapon and everybody had no choice but to follow them.

25:19So the net result here is that margins at Comcast has gone from 27 % to 4 % in the past five years. Disney's have gone from 16 % to 4%. It's like a Walmart. Paramount has lost$511 million. Discovery last year, now granted they just shoved everything in the kitchen sink into this, posted$7 billion in losses. So it's the perfect storm of bad things. And to a certain extent, what Disney has, though, is they have the parks. And the parks. Which has helped. Exceeded. Parks exceeded. It was linear television because of the ad sales. And then their move to ESPN as a streaming network. The way that these companies have made money was two things.

26:06It was advertising. But more than that, it was affiliate fees. And because when Time Warner Cable was charging me$120 or the Food Networks,$4,$5, and$6, they would charge me$6 for ESPN. And so they made just a shit ton of money on these affiliate fees. And now that people are cutting the cord, they have decided, okay, we need to move to streaming. But they're getting hit from all sides here. Yeah, they're down at their five-year low. It's crazy. You know, it's hard. You know, they're not at their low low, but they had a peak in mid 2021 or something. And now they're, you know, they're moving down to lows.

26:43And that's just going to you're right. Disney is best position, but there's definitely in a world of hurt right now, which can't help Iger very much. And so this DeSantis hand waving is fantastic for him on every level. Oh, yeah. It kills a project. He gets to be a good guy and kill it again. Two for. But what people aren't talking about, they want to make a cartoon of the CEOs paying them a bunch of money. And that is a fair argument. When David Zaslav pays himself a quarter of a billion dollars and he's arguing with writers who aren't making that much money, have at it. But here's the thing.

27:15Income inequality and CEO compensation across every industry is out of control. That is not unique to this industry. TikTok is a new player that's sucking$10 billion out of the ecosystem. It is. I don't think they've figured that out. And they have to keep spending on streaming. They really do. And I survey my team all the time. median age, not the mean, the median age on my team is 24. None of them have cable TV. None. Yeah. Louie watches. Louie sat down, came back last night and he immediately was looking at YouTube and streaming. He just, that's a lot of YouTube. He wasn't looking, he doesn't like TikTok, but YouTube for sure.

27:53And Reddit. 125 million people every day log into YouTube, watch YouTube. I mean, on a good day, a network gets three million people. Mr. Beast on YouTube has three times as many subscribers as Hulu. And granted, apples to oranges, one is paying, one is not. But these folks are under the impression that it's Johnny Carson and Angie Dickinson and Tang ads. I mean, the world, it's like you can scream at progress, but it's going to ignore you. Exactly. And I think streaming, I mean, they're all on, they, my kids do use streaming. They just are on my service. So it'll be interesting to see. A hundred million people use someone else's Netflix password.

28:39Yeah. Yeah. Well, there might, I have a family. Yeah. But in any case, like we have, you have Lucky's Netflix password. I know what's going on. No, I don't. Lucky is tries to use mine. I kicked her off. I kicked off all my friends, Kids somehow get onto it and I kick them off. I kick a lot of people off in any case. Amanda was like, why am I not able to use it? Because someone else is using it. And then we just kick them off. I just kick them off. Anyway, we'll see where it goes. But Bob Iger is definitely in a jam economically right now. It probably will rebound advertising in their best position for that.

29:12But DeSantis is providing a great heat shield for him in terms of a lot of things. And good for him for using him for that because he deserves it. And we'll see how his presidential election goes. A lot, certainly a lot of people are attacking him in particular, but a lot of Republicans are attacking Trump lately, which is interesting. Anyway, we're going to a quick break. When we come back, Apple is going all in on a risky bet and we'll speak with a friend of Pivot, Chastin Buttigieg, about gay life in middle America. Ooh.

29:42Support for the show comes from Odoo. Running a business is hard enough and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other. One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. It's the only business software you'll ever need. Odoo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload.

30:11No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

30:46support for the show comes from odoo running a business is hard enough and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other one for sales another for inventory a separate one for accounting before you know it you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters growing your business this is where odoo comes in it's the only business software you'll ever need odoo is an all-in-one fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins.

31:16Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

31:52Scott, we're back. iPhone users can now ask Siri to open a better AI app. ChatGPT launched its official iOS app last week. It's already rocketed to number two spot in the Apple App Store. That's left some users wondering where Apple's AI efforts themselves are. The company has reportedly banned the use of chat GPT internally. It's hiring in the space. It listed 28 jobs in generative AI this month. For now, the company remains focused on upcoming launch of its mixed reality headset, where its mind has been thought to be called reality probe. Bloomberg reports Apple spent over a billion dollars per year on the project a lot, very quietly compared to Mark Zuckerberg, but he spent more, actually.

32:28But some top executives remain skeptical of its promise. One former Apple marketing exec, so the heads up could be, quote, one of the greatest tech flops of all time. I would not take my advice from a marketing exec necessarily, but I tend to wait and see what Apple does because they tend to do pretty good products. Tim Cook has sort of not been loud compared to other executives on AI. He said they're being deliberative and thoughtful, and you certainly could see how much AI could be inside of all the Apple products you use. You know, this week, the leaders of the G7 name has called for AI regulation.

32:59We can't wait till we see what they do about that. What do you think about Apple waiting? I think they always wait. I think they always wait. And I don't think they'll immediately go on trends and have an AI app or anything else. What do you think about this? My colleague or former colleague at NYU, Peter Golder is now at Dartmouth, and he's one of kind of the great minds or great scholars around strategy. And the premise of his scholarship is the following, that it's always the second mouse that gets the cheese. And Apple is the perfect example of that. Apple wasn't the first. All the time. Apple was not the first computer maker in object-oriented computing.

33:38They were not the first person in MP3 players. They come in, they wait, they analyze stuff, they let other people kind of fail, they take notes, and then they come in with something much more consumer-oriented with better marketing. And I wouldn't be surprised if they end up launching some sort of generative AI around design or using it to massively upgrade Siri and announce that Siri 2.0, similar to what Microsoft has done with BARD, but they're thoughtful, they're deliberate, and they know that their brand covers, you know, recaptures a lot of ground really fast. And rather than rush anything out, and by the way, Cara, just to, you know, maybe I'll make the prediction again on Friday.

34:19I don't think they're gonna launch their headset. Really? I think the world has changed. I think they've got a turd on their hands. I don't know. I don't know. There's going to be a headset. So I think, you know, the watch was— How do you know that? What has worked? Because there's going to be. There's going to be one. For the military and porn, that's about it. Maybe so. I don't know. I feel like there's going to be one. I don't have any question about the direction. I think it's when it's going to happen and how much it's going to cost. Other than warmth and extending the perceived notion of your cheekbones, which communicates your kids are less likely to have infection, which makes you sexier.

34:56What do people put on their face other than? For entertainment. When I first used a reality headset like this, like it was Sony. It was a decade ago. And I watched a movie, right? They were testing. It was one of their experimental labs and stuff. And I have to say, I've never forgotten that experience. It was a little nauseating, but I also, I was in the movie and I felt like someone was behind me. And it was cool. I have not forgotten the experience. And so for entertainment, for sure, obviously for porn, you know, I'm going to Crete. I'm not going to Crete, but I'm going to Crete. Like that kind of stuff.

35:31You could see it in some sort of entertainment context for 100 % sure. I had the exact same experience the first time I wrote a Segway. Wow, isn't this amazing? This is going to change. I didn't have that. This is going to change urban transportation. I just, you know, this isn't, headsets do not work. I'm sticking to it. All right. We're going to part. I think it does in a prone situation. And again, I'll tell you another place I used it. I was in Hong Kong and I was on a roller coaster. And so they put headsets on everyone. It was really interesting. Was this before or after you had a stroke in Hong Kong?

36:08I did not have a stroke. This is why I was there. My son loves to go. Alex loves amusement parks. He loves them. So I always go and I get on the roller coaster with him, even though I hate roller coasters. And so in this case, we went to the regular roller coasters, which always sort of make me feel vaguely nauseous. I'm fine with them, but I don't love them. This time they put on a headset. And I have to say, I was still on the roller coaster, but wearing a headset. And it made it look like I was splashing into the ocean and all these beautiful visual images. And I have to say, the enjoyment experience of this roller coaster was fantastic using it.

36:42I did want it at Universal with a headset, with a Spider-Man thing. Really cool. really enjoyed it. And so I just feel like there's all kinds of applications. I don't know if people are walking around in headsets, but as an entertainment, just the headset that they have for the headphones, the Apple headphones are superb, superb. And who thought that would happen? I wear them every day. The companies that had any chance or any shot of still doing it, and by the way, we didn't mention this, and I totally overlooked this on my post, the other than TikTok, the thing that is really probably hurt ad supported media or the cable companies is video games.

37:22And if the video games, the video games guys are absolutely the ones to potentially figure out a headset and they've given up on it. Or that's my sense. Anyways, they've sort of given up on it. I have a feeling. All right. We're going to wait and see. We're going to wait and see. I think it has a lot of potential if it's done right. And again, And I point to the Apple headset. I think your prospects are, I think you're, the only reason you're slightly positive on it is that, is that, thank God you're finally out of your procreation era. I can sit back. And just look ridiculous. I'm not. This weekend, Scott.

37:52And just look ridiculous. There were 43 children's parties this weekend. I almost died. A lot of them. My Sunday night. I have to tell. My son, my 12-year-old's wearing cologne now. He's wearing Dior Dragoire. He had his first kind of, you know, he was dancing. Anyway, I'm going to dance. He looks very stylish. Louis has a cologne. He has one made for him. He went to one of those perfumeries. No, he's not enduring the character-building rejection his father was at this age. Oh, well, there you go. Anyway, speaking of someone who has kids, who also has young kids, and who's doing gay parenting like I am, let's bring in our friend of Pivot.

38:34Chastin Buttigieg is a former schoolteacher who was catapulted into the public eye in 2019 when his husband, Pete Buttigieg, became the first openly gay man to run for president. He's the author of I Have Something to Tell You for Young Adults, an adaptation of his earlier book about coming of age as a young man in northern Michigan, which I interviewed him about. Welcome, Chastin. How are you doing? Hey, doing well. Thanks for having me. So you first published your memoir in 2020. The new book is billed as a complete rewrite for young adults, focusing more on your younger years. Talk about the new version of your story.

39:08And then, of course, we'll get into things have changed since 2020, gotten worse in many ways, and especially around young people. So why don't you talk, why make this new version of your story? Yeah. When I started two years ago, I was just thinking about writing the book that I wanted to hand my younger self, you know, the book I wish I could have read in eighth grade. The political landscape was not what it was, you know, not what it is today. I did not think that this book would be coming out in a time where we're talking about book bans, especially a backslide in LGBTQ rights. But what I really just wanted to do was write the book that I knew teachers and parents could use, especially young people.

39:43Mm-hmm. And of course, you're taking this book on tour. Several states have been banning books, as you said. What's the reception like? Because this is a book that would presumably be banned. Yeah. I mean, the conversations I've been having across the country so far have been great. I sold out my hometown, which was very humbling. 675 people in northern Michigan wanted to have that conversation. And I can tell that people want to be on the right side of history and people in the LGBTQ community and their allies, you know, are feeling a little helpless and wondering what they can do. And, you know, even if this book is just one little tool that helps, that's great.

40:21But the reception has been phenomenal. Now I'm getting ready to head down to Texas, Florida, Missouri, and Utah. So we'll see. But, you know, we've sold out Florida. So that's exciting. And I think that's because people, one, need that space, want to feel like they belong and to want to have that conversation. And what are your thoughts on the bannings? Because again, this is a book that presumably some mom for liberty or whatever against liberty would push against. Oh, yeah, because it features the existence of a queer person. Yes, that's right. Yeah, I taught eighth grade. I'm a dad. I wrote a completely age-appropriate book.

40:57So I think if it's banned, that's just politics. As you can probably attest to, Scott and Kara, we all read books featuring mostly or only straight people growing up for 13 years. Every movie I watched, every book I read, featured straight people, and I was not indoctrinated into being straight. I think a lot of the conversations around book banning and parental rights in education is really just a guise to erase LGBTQ people or at least scare teachers and parents and families into not talking about their existence. it's very far removed from what I think most people want elected officials to be focusing on.

41:38But it's really easy for the other side right now. You know, hate is so easy. This divisive topic is so easy. You know, they've even acknowledged that they threw everything at the wall. They wanted to see what would stick. And what stuck was attacking LGBTQ people, specifically young, vulnerable trans kids. Yeah, that's the first spot. So you're an educator. There's so much controversy right now over if and when the topic of sexual orientation is introduced under the auspices of health, but in an educational setting. If, when, when is it appropriate? To what extent are parents involved, if at all?

42:21What are your thoughts? Because you're right at that kind of critical age, right? 13 when kids start exploring their sexuality, puberty. What are your thoughts as an educator about how we thoughtfully talk about these issues in a school setting? One of the things I think is getting twisted in this conversation is that educators aren't able to have conversations with students appropriately. I mean, educators have always been revered as the educated person in the room, right? And so we have twisted this conversation into thinking that, you know, teachers are indoctrinating your students. You know, they're talking about really inappropriate things, but nobody had a problem with that.

42:59You know, we were coming up in school and teachers are having those conversations. So, one, it kind of boggles my mind that we're coming back to the conversation about what teachers should and should not be talking about because it pertains to LGBTQ people. You know, one of the things that I've always believed is that safety comes first. So outside of having conversations about development, I think that one of the things people have been really scared about with the Don't Say Gay bill and concerned about teachers and students is will a student be outed to their parents? And is it the responsibility of a school to out a kid to a family who might not be as accepting or won't be as accepting?

43:42Will it put that kid in danger? I think across the board, you know, I leave that to administrations and parents. I think parents should be involved in their kids' education. That's another thing. You know, people say that this is about parental rights. It's about parental involvement. As a teacher, I remember what it was like to only have one or two parents come to parent-teacher conferences. So that conversation on when is it appropriate and who should be involved, I think everyone should be involved at the table. You know, if a parent is not ready for their kid to have a conversation, they should totally come to the administration or come to the teacher and have that conversation.

44:17But I think having those conversations in good faith, is it just about a conversation about the existence of LGBTQ people? That to me is completely appropriate. So when you're thinking about, you know, in this book, you write a lot about the pressure to blend in, remain closeted, go along with anti-gay messaging around you. I understand that. I remember that, you know, and it's very fearful. And especially when your parents are not, my dad died, but I would say my mother was hostile to it for a very long time. I can't believe today this is happening again with this kind of thing, because at the time it was so furtive and so damaging emotionally, personally, you know, just in every single way.

44:57Do you think it's going back? Because what it was like was terrible, was terrible. But do you feel like that? And what do you wish you had known as a teen when you're thinking about what's happening now? Well, what I wish I would have known as a teen was that it was okay to be myself. You know, for a long time, I thought I was the only person, the only gay person in the world. You know, then I had role models in Ellen DeGeneres and, you know, Jack on Will & Grace. You know, that's all I had. So, yeah, it's Sean Hayes. Uh, so I had very limited, uh, you know, visibility into what it was like in a wider queer world out there.

45:35But I do, I see two different things when I'm out here on book tour, when I'm talking to people around the country, I see so many good people committed to the work who want to get it right, who care deeply about either being a good ally or protecting the LGBTQ community. And then I see in politics, I do feel like it is backsliding. And I do believe it got better. It was getting better. When I grew up, I never thought I would be able to get married. I never thought I'd be able to be a dad. Those things are true for me now. So technically, it did get better. But I think because it was getting better, now people are committed to making it worse.

46:11The ideas of equality, the ideas of acceptance terrify some people on the right. And I also have to say, I don't think every person on the right believes it. I think they're just going along with it because it works. That's great for clicks. True. Great for cash. It's just a great fundraising opportunity. And it's easier to, you know, attack people and be hateful rather than focus on getting something done on gun legislation. Right. And so I think it's this sort of twisted movement in their party to just focus on attacking queer people because it's easy. But I do believe in many places it is getting worse and it will only get better if more and more people are committed to making it better.

46:52So what gave you comfort? Was it friends? Was it certain literary works? Was it a confidential conversation with a teacher? If we were to say, distinct to the politics, how do we create an ecosystem or context of comfort? What would you suggest? to be honest scott i didn't have any of those things and so one of the things i always celebrate every pride is the fact that i'm here because when i was younger i just really didn't think i would make it i didn't have any teachers i could open up to you know when the bullying and the homophobia was really bad i didn't think i could go to the administration because i thought they would hate me too um we never had that conversation in my family i didn't really have any role models um I got a scholarship my senior year of high school to study abroad in Germany.

47:41It was not because I cared so much about the German language or the culture. I just wanted to get the hell out of northern Michigan. And that was my ticket out. And then I made friends. You know, it was the first time I had a friend who told me it was okay to be gay. And that gave me the confidence to go home and bust down the closet door. The thing I want people to know, especially parents, is that I could have benefited from a 10-second conversation with them. when I was younger, if they sat me down and said, it's okay to be yourself. Whether you're gay, straight, bi, trans, whoever you are, we will love you unconditionally.

48:13And you will always have two parents who love you and a roof over your head. We promise. Which does not happen with a lot of parents, which does not. One way people get that more recently is through social media or years ago, AOL was one way, planted out all kinds of stuff. But also, there's so much homophobia now. Twitter's owner uses it to spread homophobic conspiracy theories, for example, about Paul Pelosi. It's full of, you know, on the negative side, he used to be quite a positive thing, social media, because you could find people like you. A lot of people talked about that. Did you use that?

48:46Did you use social media? And what do you suggest for kids now? Because it's a mixed bag now. It's not supportive in lots of ways. It's funny. I was just talking to some young people. I said, you know, when I studied abroad in Germany and I made those really good friends from all over the country, the first time I made friends who affirmed my identity, I was telling them that our Facebook group was the thing that, you know, gave me hope. And these young people said Facebook was around in 2006. Made me feel really old. Yeah. But yeah, I certainly remember as a young person, like logging online and being able to chat with those friends and feeling like I had community, I had connection.

49:21And now, yeah, I mean, you know what it's like to open Twitter. I open Twitter and it's like, I just get punched in the face of homophobia and hate and the algorithms all messed up. You do, particularly. Yeah. I don't enjoy being on there because it's just so messy. And I worry about, you know, I'm an adult. I've, you know, I can handle that. I understand why people are saying some of the things they are. But I worry about young people logging on there and not being able to discern between what's real, what's not, what's a bot, what isn't, and questioning their identity and their worth and their humanity every day when they go on social media.

49:52So that is something I'm very worried about. Yeah, it's changed rather drastically. It used to be quite supportive, and now it's just full of really nasty stuff. You had an approach, let me quote you in your book, about bullies, speaking of which, it's always best to ask someone to explain their question or insult when you sense it's meant to harm you. Bullies often recoil when they have to explain their meanness. Just ask, what do you mean by that? And give them time to explain. They usually are weak or silly. Their point is, who would you like to challenge today, for example, as you travel around?

50:21To ask them what they mean by that? Yeah. I mean, there's so many people on the right who are just behaving like children. The thing that boggles my mind, not only as a parent, but as a former teacher, is the fact that I held my students, and I think across the country, we hold eighth graders to a higher standard of decorum and ethics than we do our representatives. Yeah. And the fact that they go out here with these wild, disgusting accusations, just sweeping accusations about all LGBTQ people. I want them to answer for that, especially people who get microphones put in front of their face every day and aren't often challenged.

50:59I don't want to repeat some of those accusations, but you know what they are. Yeah. And I think, you know, more people, especially in positions of power, should be forced to explain why they're using those words and give us some evidence. Yeah. You know, when kids always said something weird in the classroom, I always asked for the evidence. You know, where'd you hear that? Where'd you read it? Where'd you see it? And it's just so easy for them to lie right now. But some of these people who have a grip on the Republican Party, you know, they're so detached from reality and the things that people are focusing on.

51:29And they really do remind me of the worst kind of playground bullies. Absolutely. Scott? I like what you said about the importance of parents just committing or ensuring their kids know that they're loved no matter what. Do you think that dads who have sons at some point need to expand on that and say no matter what, regardless of how you do in school, what your sexual orientation is? Do you think that should be that explicit? Because I do think a lot of families do say we love you no matter what, but the kid doesn't think, no, not really. oh that was me that was me my parents were so loving and so giving and the kindest people but we didn't talk about gay people so i assumed that that love was conditional you know if they found out i was gay then that would go away and so definitely the conversation has to be about unconditional love uh and when i was growing up in you know rural michigan i thought you know unless you were playing hockey or football uh you know super athletic driving in the pickup truck, then you weren't a man.

52:38And I think those conversations have to be explicit. I want you to grow up to be who you are. I will love you for who you are. Whether you're gay, straight, bi, trans, whatever, whether you're academically gifted or you're athletically gifted, I want you to know that it is safe to be yourself. And I want you to grow up knowing that I will always be here for you unconditionally. Because I knew my parents were so loving, but I did think that love was conditional. What if they found out the big secret? Would they hate me? Would I lose everything? And I was that kid questioning whether or not I should stick around because I didn't want to embarrass them.

53:16And parents have to know the power of their words and their actions. I mean, not only parents, everybody. The power in your words and your actions to make people want to stick around. Yeah, I think one of the things is they're still hurting from losing so much over the many years to gays and lesbians, you know what I mean? Normal, like marriage and kids and everything else. But your book is geared toward young LGBTQ plus readers. What straight people, you want straight people to read it, right? about because one of the things that surprises me and literally happened the other day we're talking about a trans issue and I was like you know trans issues people are often kicked out of the house etc etc as particularly gay people are I certainly had my share of difficulty and they were like really does that happen like it was I literally was like where have you been like do you ever like do you know any trans people do you know um it was sort of shocking I was and And it was like, it's 2023 and you haven't understood this at a very basic level.

54:19So you want straight people, presumably, to read this. Because sometimes I'm like, you're kidding me, straight people. Like, you're kidding me. A hundred percent. I want parents to read this. I hope it's helpful for teachers. You know, I included some resources in the back of the book for them. And you're absolutely right, especially about trans people. So every time I have sat down and had a roundtable with trans students or just trans people in general, the room is never just full of happy stories. It's never like, yeah, I'm trans and everything's great. Which is, if you are talking to people who don't know that, it's alarming.

54:58I mean, the thing that I want straight people especially to understand is that when you are presented with something new, at least when I am presented with something new, the first thing you should do, the first thing I always try to do, slow down and listen and learn. And right now, especially with trans issues, we need straight people to understand that every major medical organization in this country approves of gender affirming care. right? Psychiatric organizations, educational organizations, you have all these people talking about the benefits and the life-saving benefits of affirming trans people.

55:37And then you have a political party that's, you know, raging war against them. Rather than meeting trans people where they're at, rather than sitting down with these organizations, medical organizations, mental health organizations, they don't care. They want them to be dead. They want them to be dead. That's the only explanation. And that's, you know, when we're saying, what do you mean by that? Explain that. That's what I want them to boil it down to. Because if you don't believe that, then show me how you're showing up for trans people. If you truly believe that they are worthy of dignity and life, then show me how you're making sure that they know that they can exist freely and openly and safely in America today.

56:12So my book, yes, is hopefully helpful for young people, any person, part of our ever-growing acronym. You know, as long as you're not straight, I feel like everyone's just getting othered and the acronym will just keep growing. And hopefully it's helpful for young people. But I really hope it's helpful for their parents and the people that love them. Yeah, I just hit them on the head with the book itself. But Scott, last question. And then I have one final one. I'm curious if you have any thoughts. There's a bit of a fissure in the gay community, the notion that gender affirming care in some ways might threaten the gay community.

56:45I've heard some fairly well-known gay journalists say that they're worried that or they seem, I just found it odd that they're not very supportive, quite frankly. And it creates, in my view, and I'm putting my bias here, a dangerous level of confusion and validation that, well, look what gay people are saying about this. Any thoughts? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, white cisgender gay men have not always been the most inclusive within the community. And it's not just as a gay person, just as a human being. I am not threatened by trans people, and I have lost nothing because trans people exist. I you know I don't go through my life wondering or thinking about the existence of other people and how you know that threatens my identity or my existence you know going to Starbucks or going to Target and getting my kids from daycare and you know doing all those things I'm not threatened by the existence of trans people.

57:46And I also feel like we have such an obligation as a community to recognize that the way we treat, you know, the most marginalized in our community is a reflection upon how we treat ourselves. and I know that I get to walk through life with more privileges than most trans people do and isn't it my responsibility to turn around and offer a hand and pull other people up and to fight for other people but the the fact that some people might be so moved as to reject the existence of other people you know in our community some people in our community have to realize that they're not just coming for trans people.

58:32They are not. It's not going to stop there. And we have to show up for everyone. They're not. You know what I call them, Chaston? We call them, Scott, just so you know those gays. We know who they are. I mean, it's really disheartening to hear that. It really is. Because they're coming for you. They're coming for you next. That's what they're doing. And you just don't. They've already said it too, right? I mean, they've already said it in a multitude of ways. But how do you go through life with all that privilege and to see that growth and progress in our country, but realize that it was on the backs of other people who fought for you either generations ago or still fight for you right now?

59:08So if we're truly a community, then you show up for everyone in your community. 100%. Last question I have, Chastin. What do you think life will be like for gay teens in 20 years? I honestly have been worried for the first time in a lot of years since having so many kids and you have kids. I felt very positive. You know, I thought, oh, the world only spins forward, as they say in Angels in America. But I'm a little bit worried more than I've ever been. I don't know why, but I just feel like just like that, they're coming back once again. What would you like it to be like and what do you think it might be like?

59:44I hope one day my kids asked me like why I needed to write a book like this in the first place and it becomes so irrelevant you know the fact that we had to have a book that helps young people understand that it's okay to be themselves you know um I think as a parent as you all know you're just always terrified of everything um all the time um but I have this mixture of fear and hope because when I travel the country and I meet people who are doing the work I realize that it's so removed from the noise machine of Washington and the people who get the microphones and the power, you know, but those people also get to cast the votes.

1:00:21They're also passing those bills. I mean, the anti-dry queen stuff. Oh, come on. So I see like an upcoming generation and I see the fire in their eyes and I see the people who love them rallying around them. And I see that hope and I see that action. But then I see people passing these bills and passing that legislation. So if we can find a right way to garner that support and energy and kick these people out of office, you know, I want to hold on to that hope because I feel like if you you just can't give up hope. Right. And it's easier to hold on when other people are holding on to you. And so I think for me, that work, especially that very visible work, is just about surrounding myself with the people who I know are on the right side of history, doing the right thing and want to continue doing the right thing.

1:01:05Because if I focus on the noise machine, then it will just beat us all down. So, yes, well, that's why you're from the Midwest and I'm from New York. We're manning the barricades over here. I'm growing children for my militia. Anyway, the book is called I Have Something to Tell You for Young Adults by Chastin Buttigieg. It's available now. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. All right, Scott. I like him so much. He's such a good guy. Such a good guy. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

1:01:39Support for the show comes from Vanguard. The lineup includes over 80 bond funds. To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk about bonds for a moment. Capturing value and fixed income is not easy. Bond markets can be massive, murky, and let's be real, a lot of firms throw a couple flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard. Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. They're actively managed by a 200-person global squad of sector specialists, analysts, and traders. Lots of firms love to highlight their star portfolio managers, like it's all about that one brilliant mind making the magic happen.

1:02:10Vanguard's philosophy is a little different. They believe the best active strategies should be shared across the team. That way, every client benefits from the collective brainpower, not just one individual take. So, if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at Vanguard.com slash audio. That's Vanguard.com slash audio. All investing is subject to risk. Vanguard Marketing Corporation Distributor.

1:03:02That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com.

1:03:34That's O-D-O-O dot com.

1:03:45Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Well, my win is Summit at Sea. I like it when young, smart people start companies that don't involve technology. Yeah. Yeah. And also take mushrooms at night. You said, what do you mean by that? See what I did there, Chaston? So when someone, anyways. And I really think it's important that I think loneliness is a huge issue for young people. And so any business that brings together people where they can touch each other and get to know each other and be in the presence of each other physically, I think is a wonderful thing. And so I really enjoyed it.

1:04:26It was good for me, because I'm getting more introverted as I get older. And my talk was initially scheduled for Thursday and the boat was in dock. And I thought, great, I'm going to give my talk and I'm going to bomb out of here and head home. And they changed my talk. So when the boat left for the first time in a while, I was like in the moment and actually had to just relax for a couple of days. And that was nice. Anyways, my win is young, talented people starting businesses that don't involve technology. My loss is, I found this, I think I saw it either on Reels or TikTok, which is interesting.

1:05:02I'm watching MSNBC now on Meta. But Chris Hayes, who I haven't seen a lot of Chris Hayes, he did this really gripping piece on a family in Florida who tragically, they have a couple of kids, I believe, tragically found out. Milo. I'm sorry? Go ahead. Sorry. I think I know what you're talking about, but go ahead. They found out the kid was suffering from, I think it's called Potter syndrome. I'm sorry, the unborn child was suffering from Potter syndrome, which basically means that the child's or the fetus's organs do not develop, lungs do not develop, certain death pretty much upon delivery. And because of the laws that have been passed by a Florida Senate and legislature, average age 57, 70 % are men and our governor who wants to inflame people, the crazies holding straws in Iowa, this is how it plays out on the ground.

1:05:54And that is this lovely family can't find anyone. These are not people who are all about choice and taking day after pills. These are people who would, under almost any circumstances, decide to take the child or carry the child to term. And they can't find someone in Florida because the laws are now so restrictive and punitive that potentially involved jail for a medical professional that no one will perform a terminated pregnancy. And so this family, this mother has to carry a child and among other things, explain to her son that this kid is not going to come home with them and then have to go into a hospital, deliver the child, and without getting into details, suffer this gruesome death.

1:06:46And you think to yourself, we have a guy who wants to represent America. You have a Florida legislature that is a bunch of men in their 50s torturing women. Literally. Well, that's what the father, the grandfather said. This is pure torture. This is pure torture. Torturing women. It's in the Washington Post. The short life of Milo was devastating. Just? Devastating. And costly, too, by the way. I would bet a very religious person would say, good, that the baby lived for the short time and can go to Jesus. I can just see that, too. That was what inferior—these people didn't deserve—had— But that person— Tortured.

1:07:28That person is in the vast, vast minority. Yep. And unfortunately, that viewpoint, because of minority rule, has bubbled up because our electoral system now values extremist positions and people who take positions that show absolutely no empathy for what happens at the ground level. You must read this piece. The Washington Post is producing. They just want to peel out their prize for their coverage of abortion issues, for example. But this piece is devastating. And there's two of them, actually. And it stays with you forever. This piece is amazing, amazing journalism, amazing story. These people coming forward, I'm sure at great risk to themselves.

1:08:13And you're literally like, fuck you, Ron DeSantis, you torturing, fuck, fuck. It was a wonderfully instructive way to understand how badly these legislative efforts impact people. It's not wonderful, but you know what I mean? It just really hits home. So those are good ones. I would say my win was the states along the Colorado River, which supplies water and electricity to most of the West, finally reached an agreement with the Biden administration. It's a government in good action. It's going to protect a lot of lakes. It's exchanged for$1.2 billion in federal funding. They have to stabilize this river for the states of California, Arizona, Nevada, all these states, Colorado.

1:08:57And so it's really important that they pass this. It's good government in action. It's not a perfect solution. There's just not enough water for the amount of people that live there and all the electricity demands. But it's that they reached a deal was, to me, government does work. And we'll see where it goes. But they definitely, it was a tough, tough, tough negotiation with scarcity. And so I thought that was a very positive thing. I was going to mention the Milo story in the negative thing. I would urge people to read that story. It'll change your life. And it's so depressing. And yet these people are so brave to have told their story in this way.

1:09:33And I feel so awful for them in so many ways. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We kind of ended on a sad note, but it's - We can't end there. What are you doing this week, Kara? What am I doing this week? I'm going to give the commencement address at Cooper Union. Of course you are. I'm going to talk about how AO is going to destroy us all. Now, what should I say? What would be the message? And I will tell them from you. What is your, what would be the message? Tell your kids you love them unconditionally. Oh, very nice. Well done. I like that, Scott. And also that the people in the audience that are there aren't going to be around forever.

1:10:05Yes, I was going to do a big death thing. That's where I was going. And I thought the parents would hate it, but the students would like it. No, the parents like it. Their kids come up and hug them. The parents like it. Oh, yeah. Okay. Hug your parents. Hug them. Even if you don't like them, hug them. Anyway, so that's what I'm doing. That's a good thing. I think that's hopeful. I like the young people, just like Chastain was saying. Young people, there's a lot of better people in this country than are representing us. There are. There really are. Once you go out. Minority rule. He is right. He is 100 % right.

1:10:34And we have to keep that in mind because the noisy small group of people will kill us if we let them, I think. Anyway, that's a hopeful thing. What are you doing this week? I'm back in London. So it's going to be a lot of Premier League football and time with the dogs. I'm going to meet. And weather. Good weather. Good weather. To find good sister. I'm going tonight to meet. some, it's parents night at the American school in London, and I'm going to meet parents, which I'm excited about. When I say excited, meaning I'd rather not go, but my, we committed to going. Good. Well, that's good. End of school.

1:11:09And also Clara's school ends this week and Alex will be graduating soon. So that'll be fun. That'll be fun. A lot of changes, ch-ch-changes. Anyway, have a beautiful beginning of summer, everybody. It's coming this week on Memorial Day and please enjoy yourself and think about hugging your children. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertot engineered this episode.

1:11:43Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Miel Saverio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. We love you unconditionally.

1:12:20growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in. It's the only business software you'll ever need. Odoo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. That means CRM accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more. No more app overload. No more juggling logins. Just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost. It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

1:12:52It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com.

1:13:20table to enjoy a sip of your latte, not ordering the red sauce. Those feelings of dread are what we call stain-ziety. But now you can break free from your stain-ziety with Shout's Triple Acting Spray that has stain-fighting ingredients to remove a huge variety of stains so you can live in the moment and clean up later. Just breathe and shout with Shout Triple Acting Spray. Learn more at ShoutItOut.com.

1:13:50Thank you.