Epstein Files Fallout, Trump's Fed Chair Pick, and Musk Merger

7:04Kara Swisher:You know, helping people go to other things. Now, can I just make one point? Not everything is perfect. No company, all companies have been involved in all kinds of nefarious activities that you don't like. But you've got to meet the moment for now. And you can always go back to them, right, at some point. That's the thing. You're sending a message right now, like, I have to give up the Amazon stuff. I've got to work on that today. Like, I use Amazon a lot. My wife's shifted to local retailers, which one of the problems is you can't find products because of the tariffs. Like, and that's stuff you use every day.

7:38Kara Swisher:But I'm really, I think this is a great effort, Scott Galloway.

7:42Scott Galloway:Thanks. And I mean, a few things. One, I'm not telling people not to go to work or not to buy groceries. I don't think someone who has the blessings I have is in a position to tell people to take risks with their employment or really sacrifice around things like food. What I'm suggesting is this is a signal and a framework for how you inflict the maximum damage with a minimum amount of sacrifice. and that is if you were to say stop shopping at Kroger's and reduce your grocery spend, I think you have X impact. When you go after big tech who has the president's and the market's ear and subscription revenue where these companies are trading at 30, 50, 100 times revenues, you have 40X the impact on the administration with what is in my view a fairly minimal sacrifice when you look at how many substitutes there are and when you actually uncover how much money you're spending.

8:32Scott Galloway:and what is really required to not participate. It's not as much as you'd think. There's the Tube. There's UberX. There are a ton of streaming media platforms. There are free 30-day Spotify accounts if you cancel and then resubscribe. There's a lot of ways here to have a big impact without a huge... You don't have to take your entire Saturday and go to a protest. And I'm not discouraging people from doing that. But if you want to look at maximum impact relative to the investment or the sacrifice, I think this is it.

9:05Kara Swisher:Yep. I like the three egregious Jeff Bezos acts ago. We're in like 10 at this point. Anyway, keep going, keep going, keep putting those things up. I'll keep, people, you can find hundreds of dollars that you can take away from them and they will know it. It does add up. A little tiny drop becomes a great stream and then an ocean. So anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. So let's dig in. The Justice Department released this was something over the weekend, 3.5 million new pages of Epstein-related files late last week. They're not even the worst ones. There's 3 million more that must be the worst, including 2 ,000 videos and 180 ,000 images, a mere 42 days after the federally mandated deadline.

9:46Kara Swisher:By the way, they are not following the law. There are millions more they need to release. They said they weren't going to, but they are going to have to, I think. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche said the release brings the DOJ into compliance with the Epstein Files Transparency Act. It doesn't. The lawmakers and survivors are calling the document dump inadequate and filled with redaction errors. At least 5 ,300 documents mention Donald Trump. A lot of these are unverified tips, but Trump said he's been told the latest release absolves him. It does not. The files show how Epstein's network stretched across Hollywood, Wall Street, Washington, Silicon Valley.

10:18Kara Swisher:That's what's really quite fascinating here with people like Brett Ratner, who was just at the White House. He did the Melania document. Howard Lutnick, who lied about being in touch with Epstein. He made a big show of not thinking he was awful and then was hanging out with him in his place in the Caribbean. Bill Gates, Elon Musk, all appearing in the documents. Elon Musk looked like he's losing, having a stroke in real time over these things and trying to pretend he doesn't mean anything. So talk about this. And obviously another person has caught up. Some we've talked about, Peter Atio, a number of really distasteful texts, thousands of them, actually.

10:58Kara Swisher:So lots of people involved. They really stretch the gamut and they're all very social with each other. Casey Wasserman, who's running the Olympic effort, for example, apologized. I'll take note, just so you know, a lot of fake Elon emails floating out there. But it's clear his relationship with Elon is not how he's framed it in the past, which is he wasn't interested. He's been posting on X all weekend saying there's where his emails to Epstein could be misinterpreted. He's also back and forth with Reid Hoffman, who Reid really got him saying, if he really cared about the victims, he wouldn't have spent$210 million on Donald Trump and also have all that non-consensual stuff on Grok, which I think is absolutely right.

11:40Kara Swisher:So thoughts, Scott? I mean, it's been pretty riveting in a lot of ways.

11:44Scott Galloway:I mean, there's just so much here. One, I think you have to put on your critical thinking cap and discern between different acts, criminal acts, poor judgment, and people who are just unlucky. Any other administration would be taking advantage of the moment to say we have appointed a special counsel here and we are going to prosecute people based on this information. And the criminal actors. If you had sex with an underage girl, you should be subject to criminal prosecution. And these files seem to indicate that that absolutely happened here. And all this bullshit about concern over the victims, well, okay, the way you bring closure and create incentives such that other people don't do this is you criminally prosecute.

12:31Scott Galloway:There's another group of people that I think is even bigger, and that is the people who have demonstrated really poor judgment by cohorting, collaborating, commiserating with a convicted pedophile.

12:42Kara Swisher:Let me add, Steve Bannon was right up in his career. They were like freaking frack.

12:47Scott Galloway:Right, and those people should be shamed. Maybe we should not be comfortable with those people in leadership positions. I'd like to think the bar for president is that that would not clear that bar. So the people get to decide if they're comfortable with those errors in judgment. And then I think an even bigger concentric circle is a lot of people who are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I don't, you know, I don't want to, I'm not saying absolve them of all, or I don't think they're guiltless, but I do think a lot of people got invited to some conference about philanthropy or whatever and ended up in the Epstein files.

13:23Kara Swisher:Yeah. No, I know. So listen, oddly enough, I will say, full disclosure, we sent Epstein a note to go to dive into media because we bought a TED list. And he was a big, a lot of those people in these files are all TED people. They were. And so we bought mailing lists. And there's an email, which is a mailing list email. It wasn't from me. He was on it. And then for some reason, some of the people around him sent him articles I wrote. And that's, you know, so I searched myself immediately. And that's the pretty that's the extent of what I can find. I have been at parties, as I said, where big, huge dinner events at like Ted.

14:02Kara Swisher:Ted was where he showed up a lot, where he apparently was. I never met him. But I mean, that's what you're talking about. Correct.

14:10Scott Galloway:Look, Elon Musk, who appears to have been, you know, had a decent amount of interaction with Jeffrey Epstein, immediately goes on the offensive and tries to start pulling Reid Hoffman into it. And Reid looks like he was squarely on the outer circle here. Yeah, I would agree. I know a lot about his meetings. That's how gross this is getting. The other observation is that there's pedophilia and what's going on here in some ways is worse. What do I mean by that? I do think there are pedophiles who have a psychiatric ailment where they are unnaturally attracted sexually to children. And I think a lot of them, not a lot of them, some of them recognize this ailment and seek treatment.

14:59Scott Galloway:Some do not, and some end up becoming pedophiles and should end up in prison. I think in some ways this is worse in the sense that I think the people guilty of having sex with underage girls here, while the term is pedophilia, what it is is a group of people who feel they are not subject to laws and the standards that everyone else is subject to. I think they think, oh, this is fun. It's a party. And if I have sex with an underage girl, that's fun and it's a thrill. And I can do it because I am not subject to the same standards and laws as everyone else. So while I think a lot of these people, if in fact there was, and it appears it was, criminal rape, I'm not sure they're pedophiles.

15:45Scott Galloway:What they are is people who've decided that because of their money, power, and proximity to power, that they're not subject to any standards whatsoever. In my opinion, in some ways, that's the sickness that infects our powerful.

16:01Kara Swisher:Well, what's interesting is how it cuts across party lines, right? You have all these Democrat-leaning people kibitzing with like a Steve Bannins, kibitzing with a this and that.

16:12Scott Galloway:All unified around partying and having sex with.

16:15Kara Swisher:Partying, with Barts, yeah. Yeah. Girls and stuff like that. That's what was gross. I do think, I want to zero in on the judgment thing here, because there is judgment of what you should and shouldn't do. Like, you know, everyone knew what this guy was back then. Trust me, they did. And they went anyway. And so bad judgment on Bill Gates' part, and I think Melinda Gates has talked about this. Howard Lutnick, like literally went out of his way to say what a good judgment he had by never, he had a massage table in his living room and went bragged on how he rejected him and then was at his place, stayed at his house, was like super friendly.

16:53Kara Swisher:Fuck that guy. Like judgment. But I'm sorry, there's more there. The same thing with Peter Atia. I feel like everyone knew what was happening here. And so there should be, you can decide what you want to do with these people, but there should be a price for this level of, it's in the same genre of we can do whatever we want. Who cares? You know, ha ha ha, you know, pussy is low carb. Like, are you kidding me? Like, I mean, it would be a stupid joke if the guy you were talking to was a sexual predator, right? And so that's why I find it a little more.

17:29Scott Galloway:I see. I'm less. And it's safer just to say this is awful and these people should be canceled. I do think that people, when they send private emails, should be granted a lot of license. And if they aren't guilty of a crime, you can decide not to listen to their podcast.

17:47Kara Swisher:Yeah, that's what I mean. But I think we have a tendency to mix criminal activity with poor judgment.

17:55Scott Galloway:And I think you have to draw bright lines between them. And I don't, to me, it just is like someone is accidentally mentioned in the Epstein files because they flew on a plane with other people to some nonprofit event talking about technology. And people who might have been in the files, there is report of an individual who impregnated an 11-year-old.

18:18Kara Swisher:Yeah. Yeah.

18:19Scott Galloway:I mean, one is spend the rest of your life in prison. The other was, OK, maybe you should do more diligence on the planes you're on. And it feels like it's all been wrapped up into one amorphous block.

18:29Kara Swisher:I get it. I agree. I agree. But there are some very clear things when I'm talking about Lutton. He went out of his way to say how much he hated the guy and then writing the emails he did. Trying to rewrite history.

18:39Scott Galloway:Yes, he's a liar.

18:40Kara Swisher:That we know. Same thing with Musk. He was just fine. Can't you just say, I mean, you know who did that? Katie Couric went to a dinner at Epstein's house, one of these dinners. He used to have these like influencer dinners. She went, she said, I should have done more research. I apologize. I abhor him. Like, she just took responsibility for her stupid judgment there, right? And I think that's fine. I don't think we should, like, she - But it brings up a point.

19:07Scott Galloway:Should Katie Couric do research on every dinner invitation?

19:10Kara Swisher:No, not necessarily. But when it came to pass, when it was very clear, she apologized and said, oh, don't. You're not hearing from Howard Lett. You're not hearing from Peter Atiyah. Like, I'm sure he's engaged a very expensive crisis manager here. And then Elon, he is spinning so hard. He's gone on the attack.

19:28Scott Galloway:He's trying to pretend that he somehow was protected or like was just so offended by Jeffrey Epsin. And can you believe what Reid Hoffman did? Meanwhile, I mean—

19:37Kara Swisher:Yes, look over here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm glad we slapped him back to last Sunday because he's right. Elon, if you actually cared about women, you'd have helped the victims financially instead of giving money to Donald Trump. You'd have gotten your non-consensual sex off of Grock. But you don't care. You don't care. You don't care. Like, you don't have an interest in—

19:56Scott Galloway:But again, the really shocking thing to me is, I know very powerful and wealthy people, just the belief that they can just do anything.

20:06Kara Swisher:Right.

20:07Scott Galloway:And they're going to be immune.

20:09Kara Swisher:They do. They're like that. It's a weird scene. I have friends who are fairly famous actors.

20:15Scott Galloway:And if they walk into a scenario with a lot of women or a party scene, they're like, I can't be here. I can't be here. I'm not going to do anything. I'm not even going to flirt with anybody. But I can't be here because if it hits the press, it'll upset my wife. It will create talking points that aren't good. They will insinuate. I mean, I know people who are so careful and shape their lives realizing that unfair or not. Picture a photo of you with a future Jeffrey Epstein. These guys go to an island and start having sex with underage women and aren't worried, like, believe that this isn't going to come back to haunt them.

20:55Kara Swisher:There's also a lot of people that enable them. And one person that, by the way, I searched you immediately.

21:02Scott Galloway:In what? In the Epstein box? Of course. Yeah, no, that's one party I wasn't invited to. Yeah, you weren't.

21:10Kara Swisher:Did you really search for me? I searched everybody.

21:13Scott Galloway:Did you really search for me?

21:15Kara Swisher:I did. I had to. I work with you. I have to make certain.

21:18Scott Galloway:Okay. All right. Thank God. Yeah.

21:23Kara Swisher:Come on, I search like 20 names of people I know.

21:26Scott Galloway:Season two, gay hockey with the dog. Prop G. That's what you got to worry about.

21:31Kara Swisher:I'm going to be an extra. I'm going to be an extra. I don't worry about that. I would welcome any sexual expression, consensual.

21:39Scott Galloway:My next career, fluffer for gay badminton, the new original series on HBO.

21:44Kara Swisher:I welcome any joyful, consensual sexual expression you want to have with Scott Galloway as long as everybody is of age.

21:50Scott Galloway:At this point, when I orgasm, it's just mist coming out. There's just literally, it's got to be a Pam Greer film, a cattle prod up my ass, and literally like a Cialis shake. And I got to snort Viagra and watch Jackie Brown. And then it's go time. It's go time.

22:07Kara Swisher:I'm moving you on. I would say the people that are worse are not even worse. They're just as bad or some of these enablers. And I will name them. John Brockman is throughout it. And I urge you to look up. He was a guy who was involved with all these intellectuals who Epstein was funding. He ran a billionaire's dinner at TED. I have attended that. But he obviously, the facilitators, these kind of people have to be looked at, too, the way they sort of facilitated what you're talking about, which is this very easy peasy. Let's get together and talk intellectual stuff, which they love. Let me tell you, the reason you're seeing a lot of tech people in this group and you are is because they desperately sought out validation through intellectual discourse.

22:51Kara Swisher:They used to love having these events, whatever they happened to be. And thank God. You know, one thing I did have our staff for our code conference look him up. He was on the wait list of D5, the one with Gates and Jobs, and we didn't let him in. I remember not particularly not letting him in. But he did somehow show up and talk to Tim Cook on the sidelines of one of my conferences, which I wasn't aware of. It was in the files, too.

23:17Scott Galloway:Yeah, my view is you go much harder on the people who are criminals.

23:22Kara Swisher:Yes. Yes. And quite frankly, you go much lighter on the people who, like, you get invited by a billionaire to go party on an island.

23:30Scott Galloway:If you see crime, you leave. But I don't, I think a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, this guy had a big sphere around technology. He really did.

23:38Kara Swisher:He was like an octopus in terms of trying to meet people. And a lot of people facilitated that for him.

23:44Scott Galloway:So, but there needs to be more prison and more judgment around who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

23:50Kara Swisher:Yes, I agree. But there's a lot of people who knew exactly what they were doing. So I think it's a stack ranking of what people were doing in some cases. And people like Peter Atte and others really deserve some. You can censure him or not, but I think he's grotesque. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump's new Fed chair.

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27:48Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back. President Trump has made his pick for Fed chair. I predicted it would be the most handsome of the white guys. And I was right, the best chair. Trump nominated former Governor Kevin Warsh on Friday, calling him central casting and says he'll go down as one of the great Fed chairmen. Maybe the best. Of course, he did say that about Jerome Powell. Although when he picked him, Trump also joked during a speech this weekend that he would sue Warsh if interest rates didn't get lowered. Morsh is set to take the reins from Jerome Powell in May, but he needs to get through the Senate confirmation process, which might be hard because Republican Senator Tom Tillis, who suddenly found his balls, is already saying he's a no until the DOJ probe into Powell is resolved.

28:27Kara Swisher:Good for him. Tillis is really on fire. He's going to use up all his troublemaking before he leaves. He was sort of shoved to the side by Trump, by threats from Trump. But now he's but he's still in power so he can do something about it. So talk about this pick. Warsh very briefly popped up in the Epstein files that we were remiss of not saying. He was on a guest list, St. Barth's, Christmas 2010. Again, what you were talking about. I get it. I get it. In that case, that's it. So I don't think that should necessarily be a factor unless more stuff is found out. But talk about this pick. What do you think about Warsh?

29:03Scott Galloway:I think it's, to be blunt, I think it's a great pick. Okay. Given the context of who he could have selected. Right. That's true. Could have been Don G. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he picked, you know, Lara Trump. He does my, to give credit where it's due, I think around these big financial appointments, I think he shows greater judgment around these appointments than he does around others. But essentially, this guy, he's very qualified. He's been described as a hawk. The fear around this appointment was that it was someone who would be subject to the political pressures of the presidency, would immediately start cutting interest rates and begin an upward spiral of inflation.

29:46Scott Galloway:And that fear was sending metals to record highs. Silver and gold have exploded. And the best indication that the market likes this pick is that when the pick was announced, metals crashed or they pulled back. This guy is known as a hawk. He served as liaison between Bernanke and the Wall Street community during the 08 crisis, which most people think was handled really well. I like the fact he has a reputation as a hawk. I love the fact that these appointments, I believe— Explain what a hawk is. Well, someone who's more worried about inflation than lower growth. Someone who will keep interest rates high longer than maybe they should.

30:25Scott Galloway:They err on the side of lower growth but less risk of inflation. and everyone is really worried that Trump is putting pressure and would rather err on the side of inflation.

30:36Kara Swisher:Do you think he can resist the pressure? He saw what's happened to Powell.

30:40Scott Galloway:That's what's great about these appointments is that they're 14-year tenure.

30:44Kara Swisher:I get that, but he could undergo what Powell's been undergone, fake criminal probes, etc.

30:50Scott Galloway:As far as I know, Powell's serving out his term and hasn't bent an inch.

30:54Kara Swisher:Right.

30:55Scott Galloway:I mean, and that's why it speaks to the importance of the independence of the Fed.

30:57Kara Swisher:Well, you wonder what this guy said to Trump, right? And why do you say he's going to sue him? You know, that's all weird. I find it weird.

31:04Scott Galloway:There's something about the power. And we've seen this on the Supreme Court. A lot of people show up with a history or say one thing to the Senate and then they get on the Supreme Court and they take advantage of their lifetime appointment and they behave differently.

31:18Kara Swisher:Not in a good way. Well, actually, some of the older appointees became, from our viewpoint, much more progressive. Well, look at Earl Warren.

31:29Scott Galloway:I mean, they really did over time. Think about what an incredible luxury it is to just focus on, to be granted the tenure, and this is the basis of tenure in colleges, to just try and pursue the truth and to screen out as many external forces as possible. That is a luxury, and it's reserved for what people think is the most important positions in the world, including what may be the most important position in the world, and that is the chairman of the Federal Reserve. So I was actually quite relieved when I saw this. I have a bias. I like Morgan Stanley. Anyone who ran M &A at Morgan Stanley has a pretty serious—

32:06Kara Swisher:Well, he's a serious candidate, right? He's a serious guy. That acid had been, like, genuflecting. He had knee pads on at one point, although he was very—considered a very prominent guy.

32:16Scott Galloway:I was worried it was going to be the MyPillow guy. I just wouldn't put anything past this president right now. This is, I think, a good pick. The markets like it. He's an adult. He has a command of the markets. He has a really good relationship with Wall Street. And I just hope that he shows—

32:33Kara Swisher:I suspect they'll drop the Powell probe to get him through. Well, here's the thing.

32:39Scott Galloway:Powell's going to still be on the board of governors. Yeah.

32:41Kara Swisher:Well, they're trying to do. I don't care who the chairman is.

32:45Scott Galloway:I don't care who the chairman is. The biggest voice in the room is still going to be Powell's.

32:48Kara Swisher:Yep, yep, yep. We'll see. Anyway, good hair, Kevin. I knew the handsome man would win. Also, besides the handsome man, I was right about Elon planning to merge SpaceX and XAI. That's precisely what happened. The acquisition will give the combined company a valuation of$1.25 trillion. flimflammery works for Elon Musk. Investors have also been pushing the idea of bringing Tesla into this. Obviously, he had already merged Twitter or X, the service into XAI, sort of to hide it away in there, all their losses. So now it's Twitter, SpaceX, and XAI, and you can just imagine Tesla being next. In this scenario, XAI shares would be swapped for SpaceX shares.

33:33Kara Swisher:Just for people who don't know, SpaceX is weighing a June IPO listing, could seek to raise as much as$50 billion, making it the biggest IPO of all time. And again, if that sounds a little familiar, guess what? Kara Swisher predicted it last April, because I know how this guy thinks. And again, let's listen to what I predicted last April. Let's hear it again.

33:54Scott Galloway:By the way, I just want to nod to, I've been doing research. You blew my mind with the notion of a combined Tesla, XAI, and SpaceX. And I'm just like, that has totally blown my mind. As long as you attribute it to me.

34:10Kara Swisher:Just attribute it.

34:11Scott Galloway:I do, but the idea of him merging all of those companies, like I can't wrap my head around what that would mean.

34:18Kara Swisher:He's got to. It's the only move, and he would do it. So let's talk about that. The reason I thought about that was because he's an internal flim-flam man and he needed a new narrative, and this works out for Biden. When he did the first Twitter XAI merger, he just got rid of the problem of everyone talking about what a shitty business it was. Tesla's obviously troubled. XAI is being upheld by the valuations of AI companies. And SpaceX is a real winner. So what do you—and you could make an argument that they all fit together, right? Sure, why not? Like data, things, moving, blah. And he'll do it.

34:55Kara Swisher:So what do you think?

34:56Scott Galloway:After the disaster at Chernobyl, where radiation leaked for, I guess, hundreds of thousands of square miles, There's a lot of farmland and a lot of livestock. And what they found was, okay, a lot of the beef and lamb and chicken had traces of radiation from the radiation leak at Chernobyl. And the Russian officials decided, okay, we're not going to throw away this meat. We're just going to parse it out and send small amounts mixed in with non-radiated meat to different grocery stores. because a little bit of radiation, as long as we mix it with non-radioactive meat, it's okay. This is Musk basically taking his radioactive meat, and that is Tesla, which isn't 10x the value of what it should be trading at.

35:43Scott Galloway:XAI, which is sort of working, isn't. And then wrapping it in the non-radioactive meat, which is SpaceX, which in my opinion, is one of the most impressive companies with the greatest differentiation in history right now. 90 % of launch capability, two-thirds of low-Earth satellites. And he's basically going to take all of it and say, okay, autonomous AI, space launch capability, and take it all into one giant, one giant Musk AI innovation space. Robot, don't we got robots. That will get robots that will say, this is, you have to own this company. Because when you look at the -

36:22Kara Swisher:Yeah, beep, boop, boop, boop, boop, beep.

36:23Scott Galloway:That's right. When you look at Tesla, it's like, okay, It's an automobile company that should be trading at 30 bucks a share, not 400 or whatever it's at. When you look at XAI, all right, it's a distant seventh LLM. When you look at robots, those make no fucking sense. But if you wrap all of that AI autonomous stew. I forgot Twitter. Oh, and Twitter, you know, a platform that's probably worth 10 billion, not what he paid. Wrap it all into a communications, satellite, space launch, AI, automated driving. and it's the kind of stock that everyone has to own. So this is an attempt to create individual ingredients, some of which are amazing and some of which have real problems and put it all into one stew.

37:07Scott Galloway:I think it's a smart move, quite frankly. It's your ducking.

37:09Kara Swisher:That's what I thought. I think like a really, a fucked up lean plan, man. That's how I think, right? I was like, I sit there and I go, what will he do? That's how I thought of it. That's exactly.

37:19Scott Galloway:Let's go brainstorm about it on an island. I got this guy really smart

37:26Kara Swisher:I was not on the island I did not know and he puts together

37:29Scott Galloway:these amazing parties with like bot leaders and by the way I am so shocked I am not on that list because the only reason I get invited to Davos I get invited to a place like that we're called I refer to us I say to I saw Jonathan Haidt and I saw Adam Grant at Davos I'm like you realize what we are and they're like what I'm like we're intellectual support animals we're here to make people feel you're dancing

37:47Kara Swisher:fucking dogs yeah we're

37:49Scott Galloway:fucking poodles we're Fifi the dance for you to dinner. We have CEO Blackrock and chairman of Finland. Now tell us something about young men.

37:58Kara Swisher:Can I tell you, so many powerful people texted me. It's like, Scott's so amusing.

38:03Scott Galloway:Amusing? That's the word I get? You know what I mean?

38:05Kara Swisher:Like, he's so interesting. I was like, oh my God, he's totally your dancing monkey is what's happening.

38:09Scott Galloway:Yeah, that was my moment at Davos. I sit next to a woman I have never met before.

38:13Kara Swisher:Yeah.

38:14Scott Galloway:And all of a sudden she starts going, Kara's texting me and says, I'm next to you. I'm like, how the fuck does she know I'm here?

38:21Kara Swisher:Because all the rich people were writing me.

38:23Scott Galloway:You're like the East German Stasi. You know every move.

38:27Kara Swisher:I see why you like him. Well, because they call, they text me.

38:31Scott Galloway:What's her name? She was lovely.

38:33Kara Swisher:Dina Powell.

38:33Scott Galloway:That's probably sexist. I wouldn't say that about a man. She is lovely.

38:36Kara Swisher:She is.

38:37Scott Galloway:She's lovely.

38:37Kara Swisher:She's new president of Meta, just so you know.

38:40Scott Galloway:No, so she started telling me what she was doing, and she was very measured. I'm like, why are you choosing your words so carefully? And then about five minutes later, I'm like, oh, you're a shill for Meta.

38:47Kara Swisher:Oh, she's not a shill. We'll see.

38:49Scott Galloway:She's trying to organize the bailout. She's going to organize the bailout attack. I have hopes.

38:53Kara Swisher:Like anybody.

38:54Scott Galloway:Anybody who can get him away from, like— She's married to a senator. Talk about a power couple.

38:58Kara Swisher:David. Yeah, David. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah, he's McCormick. He was with Ray Dalio, right? He was with Ray Dalio. That's his—

39:05Scott Galloway:Really?

39:06Kara Swisher:Yeah.

39:06Scott Galloway:I can't believe you searched for me in the files.

39:09Kara Swisher:Why wouldn't I? Are you kidding? That was numero uno.

39:12Scott Galloway:You searched me in the files.

39:14Kara Swisher:Uno. Oh, come on. Whatever. In any case. I pay for my sex. We know why he's doing it. All right. We're going to take, I had to, you know, trust, but verify. Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, tons of AI news.

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40:02Scott Galloway:Support for the show comes from CoreWeave. AI isn't just a new tool. It encompasses so much more. It's spurring a revolution across all industries and reshaping itself to become a big part of our future together. CoreWeave is at the center, powering some of the biggest names in AI. As the essential cloud for AI, CoreWeave provides an AI platform that combines next-generation infrastructure, intelligent tools, and expert support. It's powering the world's most complex AI workloads faster and more efficiently. From medical research and diagnosis to education, from complex visual effects from movies to breakthroughs in science and technology.

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41:33Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back. Now on to some rapid-fire news, AI news, because there's so much. Let me go through them. Amazon is reportedly discussing an investment of up to$50 billion in OpenAI. Meanwhile, NVIDIA CEO Jensen Huang is pushing back on reports that his company is looking to scale back on its investment in OpenAI. And that was in the Wall Street Journal. I thought it was an excellent article. This all comes as OpenAI is seeking to raise over$100 billion. It prepares for a public listing in the fourth quarter. It's trying to beat Anthropic to that punch. Ananthropic is clashing with the Pentagon over whether its AI would be used for surveillance and autonomously their operations, putting$200 million contract at risk.

42:09Kara Swisher:Your choice, Scott, any of the above? I think the most fragile company with respect to its valuation right now, maybe with the exception of Palantir, is probably OpenAI. I think OpenAI is racing to establish a leadership position.

42:25Scott Galloway:but if you look at the fact that it doesn't have the fire hose of billions of people built in that that alphabet has i don't think and you look at they're getting i think they're getting attacked from the top and that is alphabet and gemini which has doubled its share i think in the last 18 months which was inevitable right inevitable but if you have a billion people or two billion people a day coming to your interface and you start introducing ai that's just very powerful it has a netscape

42:54Kara Swisher:feel to it, but go ahead.

42:55Scott Galloway:And then you have Microsoft, which has a recurring revenue relationship with 99.9 % of the corporations above a million dollars in revenue. They can introduce really seamlessly different things. And then you have an adjacent competitor, and that is Anthropic, which has gone after the enterprise market. So I think I've told you this, and it's the weakest flex in the world. I was on the board of Gateway Computer, and about 25 years ago, if you asked analysts who had better prospects, Gateway or Dell, it was split. And Gateway was at 70 bucks a share. Anyways, 15 years later, it was at 70 cents a share because they went consumer and Dell went small and medium-sized business.

43:37Scott Galloway:And we know how the story ends. The story may be unfolding the same way. And that is OpenAI has a consumer offering, but less than 5 % of the people actually go to the paid offering. And Anthropic has gone after the enterprise market. It quite frankly, looks to be beating Anthropic in the enterprise market.

43:52Kara Swisher:But it is fighting with the Pentagon. It's interesting because he's becoming the most interesting character, Dario Amodi, in terms of talking about safety. Everyone sort of attacked him for that, especially that dope David Sachs. But I think actually he's opening a lane as the safe AI company, right?

44:09Scott Galloway:Well, that used to be Altman's lane.

44:10Kara Swisher:Right, exactly. But now he's got it, right? He's opening a lane where everyone's like, all right. Agreed.

44:16Scott Galloway:They're the clean, well-lit corner of the AI bookstore right now is Anthropic. And also going after Enterprise looks to be the smartest thing. Because Enterprise wants that.

44:26Kara Swisher:Enterprise, you know, why be in the surveillance and autonomous lethal operations business if you can do just as fine selling things to Costco?

44:33Scott Galloway:Yeah, just get your media buyers at L 'Oreal to be more productive. So my friend Greg Shove is the CEO of Section, which helps enterprises upskill for AI. He said something that just struck me. He said, OpenAI has basically 12 months to get massive consumer adoption because or start, which he doesn't think it's going to do because people like there's too many free LLMs. Or they're going to have to come up with incredible enterprise adoption. Or there's absolutely no way they can justify this consensual hallucination that they're going to go public at one or one and a half trillion dollars.

45:09Kara Swisher:Isn't there a desperation for such stocks? Do you think you'll have a situation, you know, with Elon merges all these things, everyone's going to buy it. Will everyone not buy this? I mean, would you, Scott Galloway, of course, you just got rid of JGPG, so you're not allowed to because I don't want you to virtue signal the right way.

45:24Scott Galloway:Yeah, but you forget I'm a whore. I know. Once March 1 comes along, it's back to big daddy Warbucks whore. No. But this is what, this is the existential risk to open AI right now. They want to be the leader. I think Sam Altman, maybe correctly, said there can only be one in the world of AI. But he's getting attack from above, and that is big, big industrial strength conglomerates in tech that have a built-in multi-billion dollar consumer base that they can point that firehose of people at their AI offering. They're getting attack from below, and that is Chinese open weight models, which are free, which, by the way, are technically pretty close.

46:03Scott Galloway:So the fear is the following, or the bull case is that this company is an incredible product. It's growing like crazy. It's doing all these big visionary deals. It is an amazing product. I was using it every day. And everybody feels like they've got to go in on the market leader in AI, which Altman has done a good job of associating brand leadership with OpenAI and ChatGPT. The risk is that before they go public in the disclosure documents that the SEC mandates, it's going to be clear that everybody else is starting to eat their lunch, right?

46:40Kara Swisher:That Gemini continues to gain market share.

46:44Scott Galloway:That there's an entire market of people that go for the open-weight free models. And people say, okay, this is a great little company, but it should be acquired by somebody not worth a trillion and a half dollars as a standalone company.

46:55Kara Swisher:Who would be the acquirer from your perspective? No one at this point.

46:58Scott Galloway:It's too expensive.

46:59Kara Swisher:Yeah, right. I was just thinking that the other day.

47:02Scott Galloway:Unfortunately, it'd have to be written down a lot. And then there'd be all sorts of antitrust arguments. But he has, and he knows it too He's doing big deals He's spending a ton of money He's trying to get the best talent Because there's a general belief here That there's the gold medal This literally is When we call this Hunger Games economy The Hunger Games is the right analogy And that is whoever wins here Gets all sorts of parades And gets to live a wonderful life And whoever doesn't win Is going to die a slow death

47:32Kara Swisher:And that's the approach he's taking You're right, I think you're right here Absolutely, we'll see what happens They are headed for the IPO, though. Trump and his family, this story, we cannot stress this story of corruption and the Trump family enough. He has now pulled in$4 billion linked to his presidency. Much of that comes from crypto and foreign deals that leverage his presidential status. Last year, an investment firm with ties to the UAE bought nearly half of the Trump family's crypto company, making the two business partners. Eric Trump signed the agreement with the firm for$500 million investment days before Trump's January 2025 inauguration.

48:09Kara Swisher:We did a chip deal with them. He recently said he found out nobody cared about his international business activity while in office. You know what? We do care. You know, this is a guy, as I say, accusation is a confession, who went on and on about Hunter Biden. Didn't have enough imagination as doing corrupt things and didn't have much pull. This is a full-scale corrupt regime that is using their status to feather their masks. It's also bad for national security. All manner of things is hurtful to the United States. You know, he does it all the time, whether he's suing the IRS for$10 billion or closing the Kennedy Center because he ran that into the ground.

48:52Kara Swisher:But this is really, you know, he does, that's all, you know, jazz hands compared to what's happening here.

48:58Scott Galloway:Yeah, the Republicans thought it was an impeachable offense or required a special counsel because President Biden implicitly or explicitly used his influence such that his son, Hunter Biden, could get on the board of a Ukrainian energy company and made about four or six hundred grand. There is no reason why Hunter Biden should be on the board of any company other than his proximity to the president, even if he leveraged that contact or didn't. And there's no evidence he did. But everyone's hair was on fire. And now we have an individual who is raking in billions. And it's not only him, Whitcoff's kids.

49:34Scott Galloway:And Whitcoff was investing, getting people, the UAE, to invest in a crypto company that is kids control. And then what do you know, a few weeks later, the sale of our most sensitive chips that are a security concern for fear that the UAE, who has a strong relationship with China begins to leak that sensitive information that powers nuclear guidance systems, powers submarines. I mean, the level, I got to give it to them. They're like, here's the problem. In America, if you run a stop sign, you get shamed. If you start killing hundreds of people, there's some sort of weird leadership quality around it.

50:15Scott Galloway:It's like, don't commit it. For God's sakes, don't commit a misdemeanor. commit, you know, commit mass murder and be unashamed about it. And then the next day commit another crime where it all gets lost in the noise.

50:28Kara Swisher:Well, that's what he said. Found out nobody cared, especially internationally. But, you know, and then killing all those people through USAID, the millions of people who will die. I mean, the kind of damage and feathering, nest feathering is really quite astonishing. And that leaves out all the pardons he gives to people who are, who knows. I mean.

50:47Scott Galloway:I sound like someone of those guys. Gives them$3 million. I've said this before. If Louis or Alex or Alec or Nolan, our four sons, I'll go with the older ones. If one of them fucked up and ended up in prison, I'm 100 % confident that with a million to$3 million, we could get them out of prison. Find an indirect route into a meeting with one of Trump and his acolytes and say, I'm about to buy$1 to$3 million in Trump coin. or I'm about to give you a$2 million gift for the new West Wing. And I think within three to six months, they're out. That's where we are. And here's the thing. It creates, you're going to have more Epstein Islands.

51:29Scott Galloway:You're going to have fewer small businesses that start because they're worried about the rule of law. The rich are protected by the law, but not bound by it. All the rest of us are bound by the law, but not protected by it. And in addition, foreign companies aren't going to want to invest in American companies for fear that the rule of law is not going to apply to American investments.

51:49Kara Swisher:That is exactly right. It's all going to be for the Trump's benefit, but not for the United States of America. That's really, you have to understand this, everybody. This is the actual game besides all the everything else. This is the actual game. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

52:11Scott Galloway:This week on Version History, our chat show about the most interesting and important products in the history of technology. We're talking about the hottest toy from 1998. That's right, of course, I mean the Furby. The little thing that sat on your desk and didn't have an off button and didn't speak English and annoyed everyone you knew, but you loved it to pieces anyway. It turns out there is a fascinating technology and even AI story behind what happened with Furby and why it took off. That's the story this week on Version History, wherever you get podcasts.

52:50Kara Swisher:Okay, Scott, wins and fails. You want me to go first?

52:53Scott Galloway:You go first.

52:54Kara Swisher:Well, I was going to do the Kennedy Center, but I don't really like the Kennedy Center. I never did. But he's going to close it and fix it after he ran it in the ground with his stupid minion, Rick and Raoul. Nobody wanted to go there. You know, whatever. He just he's failed the business. And so he's closing it down. It's like Trump's steak or something. I don't know if he can close it down. We'll see. But just gross. That's just a gross sidelight of the many things he's done. And we'll see. We'll see what happens there. But actually, you know, I would get more serious. As Congresswoman Kelly Morrison of Minnesota posts the following on Blue Sky, my office has been flooded with reports of cruel, unsafe, unlawful conditions inside the Whipple detention facility in Minneapolis.

53:37Kara Swisher:This weekend, I was finally granted access to perform oversight. And when she went in, I mean, it's absolutely grotesque of how they're not just abusing these populations, and they're about to go do that in Ohio, but they're abusing them once they get in there in order to get them to self-deport. The cruelty, these, let me just tell you all you people, people will, you will, you will be judged someday, maybe not today, but someday you will, this will all come out. And what you've done here is so heinous to young people. The young, the young kid with that adorable hat did get out finally, but it was only under pressure to get him out, who was taken in Minnesota and brought, I think, to Texas.

54:22Kara Swisher:but there's he's just one kid and the only reason he got out is so much of the attention because of that photograph but there's other kids sitting there thousands and thousands of children and what you have done is so shameful and so horrible and I just hope there's more photographs and more for people to understand the level of depravity in what they're doing to those people who are here most of whom are here worked hard, have contributed to our country. And it's just, it makes me sick to my stomach. For a positive thing, I really enjoyed the Grammys. I did. I watched them last night. I thought they were really fun.

54:57Kara Swisher:Oh, did you enjoy it? Yeah, I did. It was fun. There was a little, you know, I love Bad Bunny and Billie Eilish, but it wasn't too much. None of it was too much. Although President Trump was threatening to sue Trevor Noah over his Epstein joke at the Grammys. I thought he was great. Trevor Noah was great. I found it very entertaining. I thought the performances were terrific. I thought Justin Bieber did it great. I mean, he was sort of naked. He looks good. He was wearing silk boxers only, and I thought that was quite beautiful. I thought Lady Gaga was amazing. Reba McEntire performed, and I love Reba McEntire.

55:28Kara Swisher:So I liked it. It felt really good, and it wasn't virtue signally the way the Oscars can be. I found the speeches very heartfelt and simple. They kept it simple. A lot of God-loving, too, by the way. But I liked it. I really enjoyed it.

55:43Scott Galloway:I stopped caring about the Grammys when Michael Stipe stopped singing and opened a health food store in Athens, Georgia. Rico Kasich died and George Michael died. I have no interest in it. And Tom Petty died from an opioid overdose. Music is dead to me. Music is dead to me.

55:58Kara Swisher:There's some great.

55:59Scott Galloway:It's dead to me.

56:00Kara Swisher:Sabrina Carpenter didn't get anything. And I thought she was delightful also, by the way. Anyway, go.

56:06Scott Galloway:Well, I'll start with my loss or fail. I interviewed Neil Ferguson, who I really like and is a friend. But he has a narrative which I disagree with, and it's a narrative that's been adopted by the Trump administration. And also, and I would argue it's just parroting a Russian talking point. And that is this notion that this war is unsustainable for Ukraine, it's unwinnable, and they should strike the best deal they can right now. And that is the same narrative that was expectorated and vomited all over the media three years ago. And guess what? Since then, in the last two years, Russia has only increased their occupancy or their acquisition of land by 1%.

56:45Scott Galloway:A snail could literally, and this is true, move faster than the Russian army. And if you want to talk about unsustainable for somebody, this is unsustainable for Russia. And there are days where they are losing 1 ,000 men a day. Their wartime economy is running out of money. So this war is unsustainable, but it's unsustainable for Russia. And this narrative that somehow that Ukraine has been backed into a corner and needs to come up or swallow hard and accept a peace deal that is just scheduling the next war, not preventing it, is bullshit. This war is unsustainable, but it's unsustainable for Russia as long as the West continues to support pushback on a murderous autocrat.

57:23Scott Galloway:And it really bothers me, this narrative of, well, Ukraine should just take the deal they can right now because this war is unsustainable. Bullshit. They have been kicking Russia in the nuts, literally and figuratively. And they are, in my view, they are winning this war. And so this narrative from straight out of Sergei Lavrov that it's unsustainable. It's unsustainable for Ukraine. They can't manage this. Well, guess what, folks? They seem to have put all that to rest, all those doubts for the last three and a half years. This is unsustainable for Russia, and we should start speaking as if the Ukrainian army is speaking from a position of strength, which they are.

58:01Scott Galloway:I love it, Scott.

58:02Kara Swisher:I know you like Neil Ferguson. I find him to be a contrarian for contrarian's sake, and I like your contrarian is better.

58:08Scott Galloway:Yeah, but Neil brings history, and it's important to have this type of dialogue. And he and I, again, agree on almost nothing geopolitically, but I learned from him. And quite frankly, it strengthens and creates texture around my beliefs. And I think that's important. I prefer your country. And plus, he's a huge—we both are really upset about the World Cup draw for Scotland. We're in the same group as Morocco and Brazil. Anyways, both he and I love Team Scotland. Anyway, my win, because I'm canceling Paramount Plus today, I watch all episodes of Landmen. Oh, my God. I think I'm Republican now.

58:49Scott Galloway:It's literally, whoever that guy is, he's Rupert Murdoch of entertainment. He's like, all this fucking liberal crazy bullshit with all this redistribution of virtue on primetime streaming programs. I am the Fox News of scripted entertainment.

59:05Kara Swisher:You know what? He's much more complex than that. But go ahead. He's not, actually.

59:09Scott Galloway:I don't think so. I think basically.

59:11Kara Swisher:He's not, actually.

59:12Scott Galloway:Oh, come on.

59:13Kara Swisher:I'm telling you. I've heard from many a person.

59:16Scott Galloway:I'm sure you've interviewed him. No, I haven't. This is basically succession if nobody went to college or HR was a rumor. It's a great show. And I love the fact that every female character exists solely to roll their eyes, sleep with the wrong man, or remind us that feelings are inconvenient.

59:33Kara Swisher:He's really bad on women.

59:35Scott Galloway:And that every woman is in a state of perimenopause.

59:37Kara Swisher:Did you not watch Yellowstone with the daughter? She's a hot mess.

59:41Scott Galloway:I can't do Kevin Costner. Okay. I've just never loved him. I'm just telling you.

59:44Kara Swisher:He loves hot mess ladies. I do like, I love it. I like his stuff, but he's a little more complex than that. But good, I'm glad.

59:51Scott Galloway:And it makes me feel better about myself because it's like every crisis can be solved by a phone call, a threat, or Billy Bob leaning back and explaining why Wendell's—

59:59Kara Swisher:Are you liking Demi Moore? I like her character.

1:00:01Scott Galloway:I don't buy that Jon Hamm would be in a relationship with her.

1:00:05Kara Swisher:Oh, okay.

1:00:05Scott Galloway:I don't buy it.

1:00:06Kara Swisher:Well, there he is.

1:00:07Scott Galloway:He's so good looking.

1:00:08Kara Swisher:Well.

1:00:08Scott Galloway:He's so—God, that guy's a tall drink of water.

1:00:11Kara Swisher:He was in one with Jennifer Aniston on The Morning Show. He played an Elon Musk-like character, as you know. I like his career is really taking on. I met him at the morning show party. He's a lovely guy. I have to say we had a lovely chat.

1:00:21Scott Galloway:Mad Men is still for me my second probably my second favorite scripted drama after.

1:00:26Kara Swisher:He is a handsome man. I will say he is a handsome fucking man.

1:00:30Scott Galloway:After Breaking Bad. He's oh he's a good looking.

1:00:33Kara Swisher:He's hugely tall too. Just so you know. Very tall.

1:00:36Scott Galloway:Yeah. He was also great in the most recent series of or season of Fargo. That was really good.

1:00:42Kara Swisher:Yeah. He's a very bird. He does a lot better work than he should. because he's so good looking. He could do a lot less good work.

1:00:48Scott Galloway:Yeah. No, I learned that an oil patch is everything about an oil patch. It's brutally honest. Also, oil is unfairly maligned, and it's also run by a bunch of people who've been divorced exactly once.

1:00:59Kara Swisher:Okay. All right.

1:01:01Scott Galloway:Anyways, I love it because it gives me hope because it's a story about men who are never wrong but always get laid.

1:01:11Kara Swisher:Yeah.

1:01:11Scott Galloway:It's just the perfect series for a man.

1:01:15Kara Swisher:Oh, man.

1:01:17Scott Galloway:I do. This guy is the Rupert Murdoch of scripted television. He came in. He recognized the biggest opportunity. He left Paramount.

1:01:25Kara Swisher:He's at Universal now with all the Virtua Signalers. He likes them better.

1:01:29Scott Galloway:It's really— He's left.

1:01:31Kara Swisher:He's gone. That was one fuck-up by David Ellison, I have to say. he's left to go over to dot the into the into the more elegant relationship with donna langley over

1:01:41Scott Galloway:there she it's billy bob thornton telling us why the oil business is the last honest thing in the

1:01:47Kara Swisher:world yeah i know it's just the story anyway anyway i my win i did i did basically 18 hours

1:01:54Scott Galloway:a landman this weekend now he did right i am republican now now now we need you back watch

1:02:00Kara Swisher:Cheated rivalry.

1:02:00Scott Galloway:And I immediately made a campaign donation to Senator Ted Cruz as soon as I was done.

1:02:05Kara Swisher:No, you didn't.

1:02:06Scott Galloway:But it's entertaining. Yeah, it is entertaining. It's really good.

1:02:08Kara Swisher:It's a Billy Bob's order, and it's fantastic. Anyway, that was good. That was really good. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week and on with Kara Swisher, I spoke with Ben Collins, the CEO of The Onion. We talked about the importance of not being afraid to stand up against the Trump administration right now. Let's listen to a clip.

1:02:33Scott Galloway:The people who have caved since the start of this, universities, news organizations, everybody who is like, OK, sir, what do you need? They just kept stepping on them afterwards. They just kept going. They did. They did. I'm not going to tell this staff to change what they're doing at all. Like they are doing they're going as hard as they want. And if they come to me with a 50 50 ball, I say go for it. Like, yeah. And if they come to me with a big idea, I'm like, let's find funding. Let's find a sponsor. Let's find a thing to make sure that this thing can happen.

1:03:04Kara Swisher:And Scott, before we go, we want to hear one more thing. Let's listen to a voicemail we got. Hey there, Tara. I heard you talk about the message this woman left on your voicemail. What a cunt, really. I mean, you are fantastic. I'm in love. And if you weren't already married, I would be courting you. So smart, so ruthless, so truthful, so refreshing. Love you, love you, love you. Scott, you are a smartass. I can listen to some of the stuff you say, and I agree with some of the stuff you say, but honestly, dude, some of it is just like, oof, oof. Anyway, Kara, love you. Scott, you're lucky you're working with this woman.

1:04:03Scott Galloway:That's it for me. Yeah, so let me guess who picked that clip.

1:04:09Kara Swisher:I love that.

1:04:11Scott Galloway:Look at how happy you are.

1:04:12Kara Swisher:Well, because the other woman said I'm a bag of shit or whatever she called.

1:04:16Scott Galloway:It's like when my ex-wife and I decided to get therapy and my therapist within 10 seconds is like, you're selfish and have unreasonable expectations of what marriage is about. And I'm like, well, I'm enjoying this. I'm enjoying this.

1:04:28Kara Swisher:No, that's because Michelle Obama liked you. It was very funny. It was a reaction to that. Anyway, thank you for that call.

1:04:33Scott Galloway:So what if I want to have sex with other women? My God.

1:04:37Kara Swisher:Anyway, I love our listeners. Anyway, come on.

1:04:40Scott Galloway:You love that one.

1:04:41Kara Swisher:Some people hate you and love me, and some people love you and hate me. It's perfect. Some people love us both.

1:04:46Scott Galloway:Something for everybody.

1:04:47Kara Swisher:Yeah, something for everybody.

1:04:49Scott Galloway:Sweet or savory.

1:04:50Kara Swisher:Oh, I enjoy our listeners. Anyway, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pim.

1:04:54Scott Galloway:Look at how happy you are. Look at you. Look, I've never seen. You were not in the Epstein files.

1:05:02Kara Swisher:Yay! You're giddy. You know what? I was so happy.

1:05:06Scott Galloway:I can't believe you're actually worried about that.

1:05:08Kara Swisher:Why not? I'm not that interesting. So many people are in those fucking files. You had to look.

1:05:13Scott Galloway:I stay home and I watch Euphoria. That's the most sexual experience I have.

1:05:17Kara Swisher:I think it was a good call on my part. Anyway, you weren't. I'm very. Of course you weren't. Of course you weren't. Anyway, you have much better judgment than people think. Okay. Oh, yeah, thanks.

1:05:26Scott Galloway:Thanks for that. Good addition. Good asterisk there. All is forgiven, Cara.

1:05:31Kara Swisher:That's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.

1:05:39Scott Galloway:Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Sue Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Rich Shibley edited the video. Thanks also to Gibros, Misa Vero, and Dan Chalon. Nishak Karo is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from your magazine of Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Action absorbs anxiety. Resist and unsubscribe.com.