Katie Britt's SOTU Response, SVB Collapse Revisited, and Guest Savannah Guthrie

22:35Do you remember he was sleeping with one of the younger staff? Yeah. And rather than cover it up and lie about it, he's like, okay. He went on a show. Because he was getting blackmailed. He went on a show. Yeah, but a lot of people get blackmailed and still continue to lie about it. Yeah, no, I know that. He went on a show and admitted it and apologized for it. And everyone, people, the thing about Americans is Americans love to forgive. They do. And as long as you. See Donald Trump. Go ahead. As long as you kind of come clean and apologize and seem somewhat and overcorrect, if you will, I think Americans love to forget.

23:08What they don't like is when you consistently lie because they sense something's up and then everyone turns into like a personal private investigator, you know? Yeah, they do. Now you can. The people spend, I looked at some of these Kate Middleton sites. They are like, honestly, they could all be reporters. They're like, and this, and this was here. And this, I was like, wow, well, it's weird. It's weird. And, you know, when it's done right, it's amazing when people do those group investigative things. But this seems a lot of energy on something terrible, like just not of our business, but it is our business.

23:38Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll look at the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank one year later, and we'll speak with a friend of Pivot, Savannah Guthrie.

23:49Imagine fast hydration combined with balanced energy, perfectly flavored with zero artificial sweeteners, introducing Liquid IV's new energy multiplier, sugar-free. unlike other energy drinks you know the ones that make you feel like you're glitching it's made with natural caffeine and electrolytes so you get the boost without the burnout liquid iv's new energy multiplier sugar-free hydrating energy tap the banner to learn more it's the smuckers uncrustables podcast with your host uncrustables okay today's guest is rough around the edges please welcome Crust. Thanks for having me. Today's topic, he's round with soft pillowy bread.

24:33Hey. Filled with delicious PB &J. Are you talking about yourself? And you can take him anywhere. Why'd you invite him? And we are out of time. Are you really cutting me off? Uncrustables are the best part of the sandwich. Sorry, Crust. There is a lot to talk about when we talk about Donald Trump and Jimmy Kimmel. One big question I've got is why in 2025 are late night TV shows like Jimmy Kimmel's show still on TV? Even in our diminished times, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, they're just some of the biggest faces of their networks. If you start taking the biggest faces off your networks, you might save some nickels and dimes.

25:17But what are you even anymore? What even is your brand anymore? I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels, and that was James Ponowozik, the TV critic for The New York Times. This week, we're talking about Trump and Kimmel, free speech, and a TV format that's remained surprisingly durable for now. That's This Week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

25:46Scott, we're back. It's been a year since the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank. Remember that? We saw one of the largest bank runs in U.S. history with customers trying to withdraw$42 billion in a single day. For full disclosure, Vox was also caught up in it, too. So was your co-host, Cara. Oh, Scott Galloway was also caught up in it. Two other banks, First Republic and Signature Bank, also collapsed in SVB's wake. After government intervention and some major restructuring, Silicon Valley Bank is now operating as a subsidiary at First Citizens Bank. One year later, regulation is slowly materializing after months of floating fixes.

26:17The Fed and other regulators could unveil new rules this spring. Talk about this because it sort of went away with whether regional banks were vulnerable. And this was the most this was a particularly unusual regional bank in a lot of ways because it was industry specific. But just this last week, New York Community Bank accepted a billion dollar rescue package from the former Treasury Secretary C. Mnuchin, among others, to stay afloat. So what do you what do you think about this? Well, I'll talk about what went down. I think there's a lot here. I remember getting emails from people, from VCs and investors and CEOs, companies I'm involved with.

26:49And they said, have you heard about this? Should we take our money out? And I said, it's up to you, but give me a minute. And I, cause I didn't know what's going on. I remember it was at dinner and I went and I went to the FDIC has a website. And do you know how many people, how many depositors have lost money? None. Zero. Zero. So I went back and I said, look, I don't, you have to do what you're going to do here. But what I really don't like is all these people, all these small men in search of a balcony on Twitter claiming there's going to be lines around the corner of banks creating this incel panic room so they can get attention.

27:29And here's the thing. They did. They moved in. They shorted up. And they ring-fenced the contagion. Now, going meta, it indicates a few things. One, there are certain externalities and risks we haven't fully contemplated or registered based on the fluidity of capital flows or ease of access to certain things based on everyone having a supercomputer in their pocket. So usually when there was a bank run, you had the evening or the weekend to calm people down or they had to wait in line for an hour to get their money out. But now, within two minutes, you can transfer all your money to J.P. Morgan, which a lot of people did.

28:12And you can start a bank run on Twitter. No longer. I don't think any longer it could. That went out of, I don't think it could now. But go ahead. The other thing, I mean, a few things here. One, the most recent bank earnings showed every bank is struggling except for the one that they could start loaning out money at higher interest rates than they pay. And that is Jamie Dimon is hands down the biggest beneficiary of SVB's collapse. If you look at JP Morgan's earnings, they were champagne and cocaine. And overnight, they just had this massive additional capital base that Janet Yellen gave them for free.

28:42And a ton of capital washed into JP Morgan because they thought, I don't want to deal with this shit. I'm just going to go to the biggest, most secure bank that is now too big to fail, which is JP Morgan. And it also indicates that we should be more thoughtful, something I'm very worried about. And I think it's the same problem that caused this bank run as president with something else. my roommate, my junior at UCLA, had an addictive personality and he liked to gamble. And this really shady guy would show up and it was his bookie. And I remember thinking, I would never do this shit. This guy is just, this feels so sketchy.

29:15But now it's on your phone and Charles Barkley and Kevin Hart are telling you to do it. And I think we're going to see a massive increase in young men who are much more risk aggressive, engaging in gambling. Yeah, it is. It's absolutely. Gaming has always been, it's like video games. They're there and they're bigger than you think in the similar genre. Yeah, I agree with you. But just to close the loop, I take the other side of this. All the calls for regulation and everything, I think this was an example of the banking system and its regulation working almost perfectly. Because when Senator Warren calls for one-to-one banking being a boring business, it's like, okay, you realize, Senator Warren, you're going to dramatically slow the economy.

29:56because the miracle of the modern U.S. banking system is the following. $100 deposited into a bank, as long as they all don't ask for it back at the same time, and it's different people with different time horizons, the bank can turn around and loan out$120 or$130 to consumers and small businesses who can buy more cars, build more plants. And because they have different time horizons and different needs, they don't all ask for it back at the same time. So effectively, our economy is run on leverage that is very low cost and results in an ability to essentially grow the economy much faster. If you don't have on what I'll call irregular but consistent basis a few bank failures, it means you're not aggressive about loaning out money.

30:44Right, it's true. But they still could have – they moved – they did a great job. I 100 % agree. But, you know, they have to still prop up these local banks and find a way to not let this become one single giant mega banks. That's, I think, the area they should focus on is mega banks. But they have FDIC insurance. I get it. But too much consolidation is an issue. There should be a series of regional banks. Agreed. Agreed. That's where they need to focus. And anyway, former President Donald Trump reportedly wants Elon Musk to speak at the GOP convention. According to CNBC, this follows Musk and Trump's recent meeting down in Florida, along with some Republican donors.

31:21Trump is probably seeking cash infusion for his campaign. Trump was just on CNBC a little while ago. And when asked about Elon, he said, I've liked him. We obviously had opposing views on a minor subject called electric cars. Musk said he's not going to give money to Trump or Biden's campaigns, but he hasn't rolled out ruling to PACs. And speaking of that, interestingly, a story I think you should look at this New York Times investigation by David Fahrenthold and Ryan Mack. His multi-billion dollar charitable foundation has been haphazard and largely self-serving. The Times dug into the Musk Foundation and covered a number of donations, had links to Elon, his employees or his businesses.

31:55Musk's philanthropy also makes him eligible for large tax breaks. and his foundation has failed in recent years to give away the bare minimum required for these tax breaks. We only have a second. This is all I have to say is that he needs Trump and Trump needs him in that for money or somehow. So he's whatever if he speaks or whatever, I think he'll do. He'll be nuts. I don't think they should. I should think about not having him because he could say anything. And the second, although he's can be very funny, too, and charming. So if the charming one shows up, it could be very helpful. Has the foundation?

32:25What a surprise. He's self-serving and non-generous the richest man in the world, is not very generous with his philanthropy, and he'll do it so that it suits him. I think he's a lock. I think he's going to speak there. He has an enormous following, and he comes across as, okay, he voted for, supposedly voted for Biden and Hillary, but now he's on board with Trump. And there's rumors that Musk guaranteed his bond. So I think this makes a lot. Let me put it this way. Crazier, less popular people have spoken at both conventions. Peter Thiel was there. Yeah, I think they'll probably pick him out.

33:03I think it's, you never know what he's, I think it's a big risk. It's like the Katie Bird thing. It's a risk because he could do anything. That's the philanthropy. Of course, this is what he's doing. He could hardly, he hardly cares about this stuff. He just did it for, he's not doing it to help people like other people are. In any case, enough Elon Musk. Apparently he had a rave. Did you go to that there at Austin? I was not invited. I was not invited either. Anyway, all right. Oh, well, too bad. Anyway, let's bring in our friend of Pivot.

33:35Savannah Guthrie is the co-anchor of the Today Show and NBC News' chief legal correspondent. She's also the author of Mostly What God Does, Reflections on Seeking and Finding His Love Everywhere. I want to be clear, this is the real Savannah Guthrie we're talking to, not the AI or deep fake Savannah Guthrie. We'll talk about that in a minute. But I first want to talk about the impetus for the book, because when you told me about it, we text from time to time. You said, this is not what you think it's going to be. And you were almost apologetic. It was interesting. And that this would surprise people who know you as Savannah Guthrie, journalist, interviewer.

34:09You do tough interviews. You're on the Today Show. You're very well known. You're talking about your faith here. Talk to me about what the impetus was, because I was surprised, actually. I had no idea. I know. I was surprised, too. And I mean, almost apologetic is just my zone. You know, that's where I live. That's the emotional space I inhabit for most of my day. But, you know, honestly, my faith has been important to me. It always has been. And all my close friends and my colleagues, everyone knows that. So I don't mean that they would be surprised, but more that I was surprised that it was something I wanted to write about or put out there publicly, not because I was ashamed, but because it's so personal.

34:50It's so vulnerable. I mean, if you're going to write a book about faith and it is in any way authentic, then you're more or less putting your heart out there. And in this world, which I don't have to remind you, that's really terrifying. And so for me to put it out there like that, I'm certainly not holding myself up as any kind of model of behavior or anything. I'm not any kind of theologian or biblical scholar. It's just reflections from a real person, a real life, learning more from disappointments and setbacks than any triumph, that's for sure. Let's leave aside the performative people who talk about religion, who do it for some other reason.

35:26You were a quiet, faithful person, as most people are. Do you think people are scared? That's scared and a shame to talk about it because it's so personal. That's why you didn't want it. You don't talk about it. Or publicly, I guess. Yeah, publicly. I mean, I have talked about it from time to time, which is how this opportunity to write about it came to me. I've certainly never run from it. But I think people are quiet about their faith because, for one thing, isn't the mantra, you're not supposed to talk about religion or politics? Well, I mean, one of those has to hold. Well, yes, it is. But that doesn't happen.

35:59That doesn't happen. Yes. It doesn't. It doesn't. But also because I'm not out here trying to proselytize or persuade. I'm, I, the truth of the matter is I never thought I would write a book about God. I never thought I'd write any book. And I, and I didn't want to really, I was happy to just have this be something personal to me. But when the opportunity came up, I found myself not able to say the immediate no I've said to every other offer of any kind of writing whatsoever. And the reason was, was because it seemed intriguing. It seemed challenging. It seemed terrifying. and it's the subject I'm most passionate and interested in.

36:38And I'm always telling, you know, especially young producers or interns or people that have ever asked me for advice, I always say, you know, get out of your comfort zone. Anything interesting you do in your life will be outside your comfort zone. It's on the other side of a big risk that you take. And it had been a while since I had taken my own advice. And so I thought, I'm gonna try. By the way, it's a bestseller, so it's doing, people are responding to it. In the book, you write about some deeply personal topics, including the loss of your father who died when you were teenagers. You also talk about your husband and your kids and how you see both marriage and parenthood as metaphors for relationships with God.

37:13Talk a little bit about this, why you wrote it the way you did. Well, the big revelation is mostly what God does. That's the title of the book. And the rest of the sentence is mostly what God does is love you. And I grew up in the church. I had a traditional kind of Baptist upbringing, and there's a lot about that that I still love and treasure. But there was also a lot of guilt and shame and rules and a sense for me of always failing, never measuring up, and always kind of wondering what this looming God figure might have thought of me. And through a life of, again, more mistakes than anything else, what I came to realize is that mostly what God is doing at any given time is loving us.

37:56It comes actually from Scripture. It comes from a verse in Ephesians that was retranslated by a scholar named Eugene Peterson. And the verse goes, watch what God does and you do it too, the way children learn proper behavior from their parents. Mostly what God does is love you. When I read that sentence years and years ago, it was a radical reframing of how I thought about God rather than this angry taskmaster scolding or being disappointed or, you know, having a bill of particulars of all the ways we and all of humanity fails. Mostly what God is doing is loving you. That's true for me. It's true for you.

38:36It's even true for Scott. I'm teasing. But the thing is, is that I wrote about it in the terms of parenthood because that was another moment where when I had kids, I was in my 40s. I was so lucky to get to have kids at that late date long after I thought I had screwed up everything and would never have my chance. And to have a child is truly the most, I think the closest we'll ever get to understanding how God relates to us. You know, we love our kids. We're amazed by our kids. We delight in our kids. We relish their little accomplishments. We delight in their milestones. We not only love them, we often like them.

39:12We adore them. Well, that's how God feels about every human being. And I'm not making this up. Yes, I know. There are other versions of it. Scott, why don't you come in here? By the way, you know God is dog spelled backwards. So dog. There you go. Savannah, it's really nice to meet you. Hi, Scott. First off, congratulations on your success. I think this is a brave book for someone in your position to write because you're just subjecting yourself to a lot of scrutiny and your vulnerability and I can see why it's a bestseller. So acknowledging that I love what you've written, I love what David Brooks has written about the importance of community and how much comfort religion gives people and that there's definitely a hole in American society where people are having trouble finding each other and the agency of something bigger than them.

39:56Religion plays an incredibly important role. And as a devout atheist, I also want to acknowledge that I think we would probably benefit from an upsurge in religious institutions in America. Having said that, I worry, or what would you do to provide comfort to people when you say most of what God does? What I see mostly God being used for, quite frankly, right now, is oftentimes good people do good things, bad people do bad things. When good people do horrendous things, usually God is at the center or some form of their vision of God. And what I see in America is a religion and legislation that the line is being blurred and being used for, quite frankly, incredible misogyny, incredible discrimination.

40:36So what would you do to provide comfort to people that recognize the importance that church plays, but see increasingly that God is being, if you will, weaponized? Well, I understand those sentiments. I live in the real world too. And, you know, I write a lot about doubt in the book and the doubt isn't, does God exist? The doubt, the crucible of doubt for any deeply thinking faithful person is, where is God? You know, does, why would, why would a good God allow unmerited suffering? Yeah. And you say this, you say this in one chapter, you write, waking each morning to an overnight news summary, which often has a headline after headline of bad news you wrote.

41:18It feels like taking 20 punches to the gut in rapid succession. Yeah. And I mean, I hear and understand exactly what Scott is laying out. I mean, again, I live in this world too. I would only say that what you're describing has more to do with humans than it does to do with God. And I understand, but I would say, try to get back to the source material. Go back to basics. Look for God for yourself. Look within. I mean, looking out in the world, whether, I mean, frankly, any human institution and every human, even our most treasured and most devout or most faithful or most moral humans we have, they're still human.

42:04And this is, in my faith view, this is not the world that God intended. We live in a broken world And there's just no getting around that. And P.S., I don't have the answers to that in this little yellow book. I don't. The only thing I say is that I believe that God yearns to engage with us even on our doubts, even with our doubts. In fact, I think that's part of faith. I think doubt is kind of faith being worked out. It's not an exception to faith. It's an aspect of faith. Indifference and apathy. Now, that might get you a little more opposite of faith. So I understand all those doubts, and I don't try to run from them.

42:46I try to explain how I have dealt with them either personally with my own setbacks or the world that I see that breaks my heart every single day. What do you say to—he just said he's a devout atheist, right? Scott just said I happen to be more of an agnostic because I don't know. And every now and then— Which means you're a closeted atheist. No, I'm not. No, I'm not, because I've been literally walking by churches recently and thinking I'd like to go in. I agree. I don't know why. I don't know. I don't. And I don't go in, by the way. Community. Maybe. I'm sorry. I don't mean to answer for you.

43:18Okay. I don't know. I don't know. No, it's something else. I don't know what it is. It's not. I don't want to see more people, Scott. That's something I want to do the opposite of. But what, it's true, Savannah. Who are you writing for? Are you writing to reach those people? Or what's the goal here for you? I mean, the book is not for any particular person. I really mean that it is not in any way proselytizing. If it's persuasive, that's not what it's intended to do. It's a description of a relationship with God, and I hope that it's ultimately appealing, because I think God is quite compelling.

43:57So I write about, there's a chapter called The Fragrance of the Gospel, right, which is a line from Scripture. But I say, you know, the idea is it's a fragrance, right? It's not a stench. It's not an odor. It's not the person next to you wearing too much perfume. It's a fragrance. I hope that a life that is lived with recognition that God loves every human heart, yourself, and every human you see on the street, I hope that life carries a fragrance that is appealing and compelling. But no, I'm not trying to write to any particular person. I'm trying to write to every particular person who cares to pick up this book.

44:35And in a lot of ways, I'm writing to myself because this encouragement is something I need all the time. I mean, I still need to be reminded that God loves me, that even more radically, that God could like me. I mean, this is, if you could let that in, if you could really let it in, even for a moment, it's pretty transformative, but it's not the kind of thing that you learn once and then it stands for all time. It's like when you get married, you don't say, I love you, sweetie. And then in 30 years, you're like, remember I told you on a wedding day? No, you are in it every single day. And you have to continue to seek that connection.

45:13And that's how I think about faith as well. Scott? By the way, I love you, Scott. Sorry, go ahead. I love you too, Kara. Thank you for saying that. Should I leave? No, no, it's okay. So I'm asking this question generally for an answer, not as a comment. What advice, I know you have kids, I have 13 and 16-year-old boys, and I genuinely struggle with the role that I should play in determining what the role religion should play in their life. As someone who believes at some point I'll look into their eyes and I believe our relationship will come to an end when I die, I also recognize as someone who spent a lot of time in temples and churches that there is something wonderful for kids about being involved in a religious institution.

46:01But I struggle with how to incorporate it in a thoughtful way. um and he was what advice would you have for someone who you know buys into the institutions not necessarily the lineage and see some some of the danger and quite frankly if i woke up one day and my kid was super religious i gotta be honest with you savannah i would be heartbroken and but at the same time i realized the value it can play in their lives and i want to incorporate it in a thoughtful way? What advice would you have for parents that feel the same way? Yeah, well, I mean, I'm definitely with, you asked me, but I definitely do not present myself as somebody who could give any kind of advice on parenting as I'm just struggling along blindly myself.

46:49But I'll tell you what I do. My husband is Jewish. We have an interfaith household. What I have decided, and this is a little different because I do carry a deep faith within me. So, what I try to do is share that with my kids. And yes, to a certain extent, you know, you're talking about religious institutions. I go to church. I've always belonged to a religious institution. But to me, I don't let the religious institutions, I don't let them ruin God for me. You know, I try to know God for myself, know Jesus for Himself through scriptures, through prayer, through personal interaction. And of our religious institutions, which are imperfect as all humans are, I try to take with grace the best that they have to offer and then have grace with their failings.

47:37But what I try to do is teach my kids about the God that I know, and not just in a way of dragging them to church, although I do. My sister says, in our growing up, she said, God was the sixth member of our family. And what she meant by that was we were always kind of in conversation with God or about God. You know, and when my kids have a problem, I might introduce God into the topic. This is easier for me because I believe in God and you don't. But I think that's how I try to do it. And if you, you know, don't have those feelings, you feel strongly that's different. But if somebody was wondering, they might just say, especially with a 13 and 16 year old, I have no doubt your boys are quite smart as you are.

48:19You know, it's okay if you want to investigate that a little bit. and you have to understand that faith is intellectual, but it's also spiritual and emotional. We're on multidimensional realms here, okay? So, you know, you can't, nobody can sit here and prove it to you and give you a set of facts, even if they gave you incontrovertible facts that wouldn't be enough. Faith is, in the end, a leap. And I, if I had older kids, I think that's what I'd say to them. My little kids, you know, they're seven and nine now. As they start to ask questions, my view is I told them what I know. They will choose for themselves their faith or no faith at all.

48:59And that will be their choice. I only know my responsibility is to expose them to the God that I know. How do you incorporate the Jew, your husband being Jewish? How do you incorporate? Because there's a lot of families like this. There's like my family, my wife is Jewish, but we haven't done anything at all. And I wouldn't bring them to church. Although with my older kids, what my ex-wife did was she took them to all different churches all the time. Like she would go to a temple. She would go to a Sikh temple. She would go to a Baptist. She brought them to a lot. Unitarian was where she tended to zero out on, but she took them to a lot of places, which I thought was kind of a great idea.

49:40I couldn't, I didn't. I think, I mean, look, my view is sort of give God some access to their hearts and let him do the rest. I mean, why do we act like we're going to, what we say is somehow going to be what they end up believing anyway? So I feel a responsibility because I do feel my faith so strongly that I want to share with them what I know. My husband, he comes from a Jewish tradition and he shares his traditions and we let those all live alongside each other. Now, look, we don't have to get into chapter and verse why at some point, although there's so much in common between our faiths, why at some point there may be questions and a conflict.

50:19And when that day comes, I hope that we can answer it with as much love, understanding, grace, and humility as possible for all we know and all we don't know. But, you know, my kids used to go, they don't go to this school anymore, but it wasn't a religious church, a religious school, but it had religious, it was an old religious school, but a hundred years later in New York City, it didn't. But they still had chapel every week. And what I loved about it was, you know, the chapel had nothing religious in it, but it was space and time for something other than the here and now, for something other than what's right in front of you.

50:53So maybe it's a long-winded way of getting to something of an answer, Scott, which is to, however you do it, to leave a little space. And if God chooses to enter that space, well, won't you be lucky, even though, Scott, you'll be in despair. Why should anything change? Why should anything change? Let me just tell you, Savannah, you don't know that, but one of the things Scott's doing this afternoon is going for a ketamine therapy session. He's trying it for the first time. So this is going to fuck him up. This is going to be good. I may see God. There's a decent chance I'm going to see God in about 60 minutes.

51:23Well, you know what, Scott? My big view, and I write about this in the book, is God speaks our language. You open your heart and you give a little access point, then let God do the rest. He's God, you're not. Yeah. Yes. As you were sitting here thinking, the reason I am interested, I grew up Catholic, and they hated gay people. They did. They did. They did. And that was what made me reject it so strongly. And I thought they were horrible in so many ways, the people that ran the church, including around sexual assault and stuff. But one of the things that I think I'm attracted to is the quiet. It's so quiet in there.

51:58And I think you're right. Being quiet is a very difficult thing these days. But I do have to ask you about these AI-generated companion workbooks being sold to a company. Your book, mine are, there's full books of Kara Swisher with really creepy-looking Kara Swisher faces on them. What you want, I don't look hot. Stop it. You look hot on those photos. It's not going there right now. With Savannah, we have a nice guest in our thing. We have a nice lady with us. Stop it. And what did you think when you brought them up to me? What did you think when you first saw them pop up? And these are workbooks.

52:30Workbooks that they sell them to a company, your book, and you had nothing to do with them. And you could do a workbook, for example. Well, yes. I mean, and here's the thing. My mother's the one who told me about it. She said, oh, honey, I bought your workbook. I'm like, what workbook? And then she told me to look it up. And then I saw it. And what is horrifying about it is, well, I mean, first of all, who knows what the heck like it says, with our names on it. But also people spend their real money. It's not like it's$1. It was$14.99. Actually, at one of my book events, this nice lady brought it to me.

53:00She said, I just wanted you to know there are these fake workbooks. And I said, oh, I'm all over it. I know. And I, of course, immediately said it to the publisher, but there's very little they can do. I don't understand it totally from a legal perspective. If there's a true likeness to your book, like there were a few that came on that were light yellow like mine, they could get those taken down, but the others, they don't. And it's just really unfortunate because people are spending their money on it. And also for authors and even publishers, that's a book not sold if somebody's buying a workbook that's fake.

53:35Right. No, 100%. I hope you know I complained to the CEO of Amazon on your behalf. So, I just was like, it was like crazy, but they can't do anything. Scott, final question. So when you and your boyfriend, now husband, were thinking about building a life together, and I don't know if you had the conversation around religion, but it's unlikely unless people meet at church or temple that their exact views on this topic calibrate perfectly. And did you have conversations around this? Did you find you needed to accommodate? Did one person grow into it more than the other? Was it less important to one person than the other?

54:10So did it shape more around who it was important to? Talk about how you decided that religion should morph or not such that you could shape a life together. We talked about it a lot. And, you know, of course, I came up in a tradition where you weren't supposed to marry outside the faith. And I think his tradition probably was the same as well. So right there, we're already, you know, heretics in some sense, but we talked about it a ton. And we actually, this isn't the only reason that we've faffed around and dated for five long years before getting married, but it is one of the topics that came up.

54:43How can we make this work and still have integrity with both of our faiths? And that's something that we're trying to do and not water down either one. And I kind of indicated this, when they're little, it's easier to do that. When they're older, I anticipate, because I believe my kids, I hope I'm raising smart thinking kids who aren't afraid to ask hard questions. You know, I anticipate that that will come up and that we will deal with it as it does. But what I knew I couldn't do was in any way water down or walk away from my faith. And my husband has known this about me since our very first date and in no way would ever ask me to.

55:25I have to give him a ton of credit, too. I mean, for me to not only be this person, but then to be in this strange position where now I'm writing a book about faith, which is so out there. You know, he never once was like, well, that's great, sweetie, but do you need to? He completely and totally supported me, which I am so grateful for. And the biggest thing I've learned is whether you have a lot of faith or a lot of doubt or something altogether different, I do think, to your point, Scott, people long for connection. And they want to have conversations that are deep and meaningful. And I've had more conversations, even with friends I've had forever, since writing this book.

56:05I mean, even Kara and I, who are text besties, and we've talked about a lot of things. And when I said, oh, I'm writing this book, that opened up a conversation or a lane of conversation we hadn't had before. And I loved that she was so open and interested and said, like, oh, I love talking to people about faith. It doesn't mean I agree with your faith. It means, isn't it interesting to have these conversations? Isn't this more valuable to spend time talking about what you believe, what you don't believe? Let's connect as humans. this is the stuff that actually matters. And I'm hoping that the book at least creates that opportunity.

56:42That's exactly right. You know, my favorite course I ever took was something called Problem of God at Georgetown. And it was run by, it was taught by a Jesuit priest. And it goes, we're here to discuss, is it God's problem with man or man's problem with God? And it was all about existentialism. It was mind-blowing. It was a mind-blowing class for me in a lot of ways. Anyway, this book is really interesting. I've really enjoyed reading it. And I think it's good. Scott does talk about community a lot. It's important. This is what it's about, faith and community, which doesn't necessarily have to have any religion at all.

57:17The book is Mostly What God Does, Reflections on Seeking and Finding His Love Everywhere by Savannah Guthrie and her AI friends. Anyway, thank you so much. Thank you. I so enjoyed it. Thanks, Scott. Thanks, Cara. Nice to meet you, Savannah. All right, Scott, bringing a little God in here. We should have a lot. We bury ourselves. It's a great discussion. It really is to talk about that in an intelligent way, which usually it does not get intelligent, unfortunately. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

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59:23Okay, Scott, would you like to go first? Who would you like to go first? I've been doing all the speaking. You know, I think the biggest fail this week, if you think back on it, is a political one, which is that the Republicans badly misplayed their hand. And they look very stupid. They look stupid in terms of. And again, this is a long. Like I say with the Democrats, this is a long election. But they made, you know, they kept making they indulged themselves by saying weekend at Bernie's for Biden. And he's not. He's just simply not. It's not true. It wasn't true in the first place. He's old. And they've given him an in, a very good in here.

1:00:00And I think what the Democrats should do, as I said, by Southwest, I said on the Chris Wallace show, is start to define Trump in ways that are actually true. and my thing was, you know, repeat, rapist, racist, fascist, like that kind of thing. Use those techniques. I think that they did themselves a disservice. I don't really want them to win, but they did themselves a disservice. And for the win, I think, you know, I love that Barbie got really shafted in the Oscars. They really did. But everyone's focused on the I'm just can, which I thought was great, Ryan Gosling. But Billie Eilish is such a talent, Such an enormous, deeply moving talent.

1:00:42She won an Oscar for a song that she sang. And I love her. And I think she's, she gets, she's of course very famous, obviously. But she deserves every bit of it. And she was carrying it around. And it was just, I just love her. I love it. It's called What Was I Made For? From one of the most beautiful songs in Barbie. And just so moving. And she's just, everything she does is fantastic. So that's my win and fail. Nice. Yeah, Barbie should have won everything. Okay, I can't resist. What award should Barbie have won instead of? Her. Margot Robbie could have. Emma Stone won it. There were a lot of good people.

1:01:23The woman from Flower Moon. She should have at least been nominated, I guess, because I thought she did. She's a fantastic actress, Margot Robbie. and she was quite good in this. Did you see I, Tonya? I thought that was her best film. Yes, she was fantastic. But I'm just saying, because she was wearing pink, you didn't see how good the performance was. And it really was. That's an interesting frame. I hadn't thought of it that way. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Okay, so my win, and we keep talking about this, I think the TikTok ban, I think they chose the wrong word. I think it should be called TikTok regulation.

1:01:56It looks like it's going to pass the House. We'll see if it passes the Senate. Biden has said he'll sign it. But this is how it's going to play out. on the eve of the ban or the day after the ban, the folks at ByteDance are going to say, well, the jig is up. It's no longer a propaganda tool that we'd hoped it would be for decades. We don't want to lose a quarter of a trillion dollars. So they will spin it or come to some sort of accommodation or agreement. Money wins and money will win here. And they will figure out something and no one's going to lose their TikTok is my win here. And also for the shareholders of TikTok, including ByteDance who sell it, the value once this cloud of uncertainty is removed, I believe the stock's going to go up or the value of the company is going to go up 50 to 100 percent.

1:02:38So increased market capital. Can I counter that for a minute with Intelligence by Mark Cuban, not myself, but we had a long talk about this. He said it's actually not valuable without the algorithm and the Chinese will not let us have the algorithm because it will show that they may or may not have done what we think they may or may not have done, which is all kinds of manipulation. And so he said, the best thing would have been to do was to get your historical, your history on the service and reverse engineer the algorithm. I barely, I realize, I understand what he's saying, but it's very complicated.

1:03:12And then you find out whether the Chinese did cheat or put their finger on the, you know, or else they didn't, right? But they can't, if they did, they can't let you know. And if they didn't, well, they're not, they probably did, right? And so he said, it's not as valuable. You get the user base, but you're not getting the algorithm, and it could be a real problem for the company. And that was why I said, are you making a bid for it? It seems that you've always been interested in these social medias and sites. And he said, no, because of that. He thought that. Anyway, it's just an interesting analysis.

1:03:42But go ahead. I think that with a quarter of a trillion reasons to try and figure out an AI algorithm, I think this thing has so much momentum that I do think. I don't think new owners, TikTok is going to go away. I mean, Reels isn't as good as TikTok, but I just got to think with this kind of opportunity and the kind of developments and investment in capital and technology we have around AI, the new owners are going to do a decent job. It might not be as good. I get it. I just was interested by this and I had not heard it from others. He's so smart. I always listen to what he says. Go ahead. Anyways, my fail is anti-Semitism on campuses.

1:04:22the signs Zionist not allowed, Zionist not welcome. Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. These signs were at UC Santa Barbara and the University of California changed my life. It was very upsetting for me to see this. And I think that signs, I think anti-Zionism signage from people who aren't having a thoughtful conversation around history and actual data here. I think it's thinly veiled anti-Semitism. I think that Israel is held to a double standard that's not applied to any other nation. The right to existence of no other sovereign state is called into question. And I think anti-Zionism becomes anti-Semitism when the Jewish people as a whole are held accountable for the actions of policies of the Israeli government, typically resulting in discrimination, harassment, well, let me finish, thank you, or violence against individual Jews.

1:05:12And we are seeing more and more of that. It is not going away on campuses. Protesting at Jewish temples, at Holocaust museums, saying Zionist not allowed on campus. I mean, I just see that as anti-Semitism. And Prime Minister Rishi Sinek said, I thought very eloquently in the UK, he said, look, you want to protest peacefully, you want to have signs saying, you know, that you're pro-Palestine, pro-Gaza, you're anti-Israel, fine. But you start yelling hate speech and become violent, we're going to move against you and we're going to hold you accountable. So I'm just very disappointed that the University of California leadership hasn't taken more of a leadership stand and distinguished between free speech and hate speech.

1:05:53And I thought that this was kind of slowly but moving from a boil to a simmer. It's not. It appears to have picked up again in the last couple of weeks. Anyways, that's my fail. You know, we had an interruption during our Gavin Newsom thing in California over protesters, and they appeared there. They kept saying, call for a ceasefire. But anyway, I get it. I get it. I just think some of the things that are continuing to happen and how Netanyahu, you know, Biden's even saying, I have a red line of what you're doing there. And Netanyahu's ignoring him completely. Biden handled it well. And by the way, the protests that you're book signing, I think, are entirely acceptable and appropriate.

1:06:34Except he weren't listening to him. They didn't want dialogue in that case. But I get it. I get it. And it's fair game. He's fair game. Gavin Newsom and all these. I just feel like that it's getting worse because at this point, they've got to have a ceasefire. They really do. They have to have a ceasefire. Can I take the other side of that? Please do. Okay. a religious fundamentalist violent group takes control of the Mexican government. It's elected democratically there. And they believe that white evangelical Texans are treating immigrants poorly, have been inhuman to people trying to get across the border for a different life, and decides to couch it in religion and say that they should be exterminated.

1:07:19They don't have a right to existence. Hold on. They build tunnels and they incur into Texas. They kill everyone at the University of Texas, all the faculty, all the family members. And on the way back to Mexico, they take the freshman class of SMU hostage and put them under tunnels in Mexico City. And so my question is the following. What would we do to them? It would be the great Sonora a charred parking lot. There would be no calls for a ceasefire. And here's what happens. We should absolutely coordinate with the Israeli government to allow humanitarian aid. And the fact that Netanyahu is doing anything to get in the way of that is diabolical and wrong.

1:07:58At the same time, if it was us, we wouldn't be calling to save the hospital and apply to Carmen. We would not listen to calls for a ceasefire. Because in my view, until Hamas is eliminated, even Qatar is sick of Hamas senior level officials. If they do not release the hostages, I don't think there should be calls for a ceasefire. There is a ceasefire. There was a ceasefire on October 6th. There will be one once they put down their weapons and surrender. Israel should be given the same expectation, the same rights we as Americans demanded when someone attacked us at Pearl Harbor on 9-11, and that is unconditional surrender.

1:08:37And any ceasefire other than for humanitarian aid just leads to them rearming, rebuilding, and eventually more death. All right. As you can see, I wonder why it's ginned up again. But I do feel like Etniah, who is exactly the wrong leader at this moment, and he's not making it more secure. And most Israelis and most Jews, Kara, agree with you. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah, I know. I know. And I apologize. I don't mean to be hostile towards you. I think you're evoking a good I get what you're saying, but it's not. It's from a. It's it's it's devastation all over the place. And it doesn't matter.

1:09:16Biden said the way we reacted at 9-11. You get what we did. Probably we did too much. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to NYMAG.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. OK, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more. Today's show is produced by Laron Amon, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Neil Severio. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

1:09:48Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Love the poor. That's a decent place to start. Thank you.