Liberation Day, Elon Exit Rumors, and Guest Co-Host Jon Lovett

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27:35John, we're back and recording on the day after Liberation Day. Do you feel liberated? Yeah, so this is liberated, this is a boxing day for Liberation Day. President Trump unveiled his latest tariffs, the most expansive yet, at the White House on Wednesday, with the help of a giant poster board. He's imposing a 10 % tariff on all U.S. trading partners as well as double digit. he's calling them a reciprocal terrorist. They're not, just so you know, about the worst offenders. He seems to, nobody thinks these are good things. And the math is like nuts. The EU faced 20 % tariffs, Japan 24%, South Korea 26%, and China additional 34 % on top of existing tariffs of, I think, 20%.

28:17Russia conveniently didn't make the cut. Trump also is slapping tariffs on unexpected places like some uninhabited islands in the Antarctic where only penguins live. People are having a good time with that. The EU, China, and others are already planning retaliation. He's been very flip-floppy on terror, sort of red-light green light, which caused chaos. And now he just dropped the bomb. Like, he really did essentially drop the mic. The markets opened just a little while ago. The S &P dropped 3.4%. The Dow fell 1 ,200 points, more than 2%. And the Nasdaq is down 3.8%, big numbers. A number of sectors are getting hit.

28:50But in terms of tech specifically, things are looking rough right now for tech, particularly because they're so invested across the world. Apple's down over 9%. Amazon down 8%. NVIDIA down 6%. Alphabet down 4%. U.S. tech companies are becoming collateral damage when it comes to retaliation, getting hit with fines, restrictions, and new taxes by major markets worldwide. They also have obviously interconnected with so many different markets. What do you think of this rollout? Peter Navarro is back, my friend. He's back and he's crazier than ever. Trump's building a wall and we're all going to pay for it is I think what's happening.

29:24Larry Summers posted this, and he's a former famous economist. Former Treasury Secretary and somebody who is not hyperbolic, saying that a crude estimate of Trump's tariffs puts the projected loss at$20 trillion or well over$200 ,000 per family of four. and then he walks through how he reaches that very conservative estimate of the damage. They're not reciprocal tariffs. People were baffled by the number. I'm not an economist, but people looking at this, they're sort of scratching their heads trying to figure out what this number is. And they realized that it's not based on the tariffs of these other countries.

30:12It's a crude calculation based on the trade deficit with these other countries and not Not the trade deficit on goods and services, but just the trade deficit on goods. The even the administration itself admitted that it was too hard to actually calculate for every country what the reciprocal tariffs would be. And so they came up with this ridiculous formula. The hope has to be that these fake numbers are just an opening bid in a negotiation. Then he's trying to do it. Chris Murphy had that in his, I'm going to read from some of it. Chris Murphy, who's been very vocal, just like Cory Booker, the senator.

30:55Those trying to understand these tariffs or economic policies are dangerously naive. The tariffs are a tool to collapse our democracy, a means to comply in loyalty with every business that will need to petition Trump for relief, which many people are. And what he was saying essentially is that this gives him power. And the reason he can is because he's taking control of spending and taxation into his own hands and rewarding loyalty and punishing dissent. Our own revolution was spurred by the king's use of heavy taxation on the colonies to punish our push for self-governance. The king's message was simple.

31:28Stop protesting and I'll stop taxing. What do you think is happening here? besides even scott besson looked like an idiot and i don't feel like he is i think trump has believed since the 80s the last time he formed any new ideas that tariffs are good and that we that are that we have trade deficits because other countries are taking advantage of us he has been he has been pushing and pushing and pushing to do sweeping tariffs he was stopped in the first term by cooler heads. Like there's many ways in which what Trump what we're seeing with Trump is a kind of extreme, bizarro version of a normal pattern with first and second term presidents, which is in the first term, presidents work for the White House.

32:15In the second term, the White House works for the president. Presidents figure out where they can get more control. They feel more confident in exercising the power. They feel like they belong there. They no longer feel like They're imposters. And so all the people that would have stopped Trump from doing this, they're gone. Right. It's a different set of people. But he has more responsible people. I mean, I think they're all they all look like fucking idiots today. But he has more responsible people on on economics than he does, say, running around the FBI or HHS. But Trump wanted to do this and nobody could stop him.

32:52They put together this half-baked cockamamie plan involving a ridiculous calculation to create these charts. Nobody is really crossing the T's and dotting the I's, which is why we're taxing penguins. And the end result is this chaos. That said, I think the point that Chris Murphy is making is a really important one. He has a lot of grand language there. Trump knows Trump likes using his power. He likes the way it feels to exercise power. Congress has given way too much authority to the president on tariffs. He puts these tariffs in place and all of a sudden Republican House members are lobbying him.

33:34Businesses are lobbying him for relief. Countries are lobbying him for relief. And even if you view it, even if you take the most generous version of it, right, which is not that he's doing this to destroy democracy, but doing this to create leverage. The question is, what does he do with it? Right. And can he use these tariffs, say, on agriculture or to provide relief for these tariffs on agriculture to to rally votes for a bill, for example? And so I do think this is about power. I do think this is about control. But I also think he genuinely believes that tariffs are good. Implications right now, right, Right at the beginning of this, obviously, the stock market's down.

34:16Obviously, Wall Street's screaming. So are farmers. So are everybody screaming, essentially. I think we just don't know. It's interesting because we talked about this on Pots of America on Monday. And look, there's a lot of like hyperbolic partisans talking about how the markets are crashing, the markets are crashing. And they weren't. They actually weren't. They were down. They were, of course, down. But year over year, they were up. And the question was why. And it seems like what we've learned today is nobody really believed it would be as bad as what they announced. And I still don't think we know.

34:55And what we have to watch unfold is, are we seeing the beginning of a truly disastrous long term tariff policy? Or is this a extreme version of what we saw when he first put in place the Canada and Mexico tariffs, which is he talks a big game. But if he gets concessions in quotes or pushback or just fake concessions like a fentanyl czar or a press conference in which the Mexican president announces policies she had already put in place months earlier, will he lower them? Right. Like what what does he want to reduce these numbers? The hope has to be that because these figures are so ridiculous, right?

35:38Like he's calling them reciprocal tariffs. Like how does Vietnam, they're being asked to reduce their tariffs that don't exist below. You know, this is about a trade deficit. No, and I think the one thing that's not being noticed is service tariffs, service issues, because that's tech companies. And we are in a not a deficit. We're in quite the opposite where we have the advantage there by, I think, 300 billion dollars. We're in a surplus in that regard. And now Europe is going to target, you know, the McKinsey's of the world, the cloud business of whoever, Microsoft and whatever. And so we have a real vulnerability in the service, which is why you're seeing the tech companies get so whacked here.

36:20Well, look at like look, look at just the Canada example, right? Trump rails against this. They're taking advantage of us. This this trade deficit, this trade deficit. If you take away fossil fuels, if you don't if you don't look at oil and gas, we have a trade surplus with Canada. They're our biggest customer, right? This is supposed to be to help domestic manufacturing. Domestic manufacturers, a lot of their customers are around the world. They're going to take a huge hit because of this. The other big problem here is even on Trump's own terms, the fact that nobody truly believes or can know whether these will be upheld consistently.

36:55How is anybody going to plan to build in America? How is that possible? Why would you build a factory? Why on earth would you build a factory when you know that, A, when you don't know that these tariffs are going to stay in place? And even if they do, you know that America is going to be isolated from the rest of the world. It's actually just another example of just the chaos and incompetence makes them fail even on their own terms, even though on their own terms, right? Doge is going to end up costing the government money, right? Because of how ham-fistedly and stupidly they've done this, getting rid of the IGs, getting rid of the parts of the government that figure out what's effective and what's not, right?

37:38Firing the best and the brightest, the new and excited people that have just been hired, the people that were just promoted, the lawsuits that will inevitably come that will cost the government millions and millions and millions of dollars, billions of dollars, who knows? Same here. Yeah, I think we know now how he bankrupted his casinos. I just feel like we have such insight into why his businesses are so shitty at the same time. I'm going to move on really quickly because one of the things, another podcaster, Joe Rogan, thinks the Trump administration's deportations are horrific because now even the thing that he polls strongest on, which is immigration, some of he's starting to get pushed back there.

38:20Let's listen. You got to get scared that people who are not criminals are getting like lassoed up and deported and sent to, like, El Salvador prisons. This is kind of crazy. That that could be possible. That's horrific. And that's, again, that's bad for the cause. Like, the cause is, let's get the gang members out. Everybody agrees. But what's not innocent gay hairdressers getting lumped up with the gangs? And then, like, how long before that guy can get out? Can we figure out how to get him out? Is there any plan in place to alert the authorities that they've made a horrible mistake? Sounding somewhat reasonable for Joe Rogan, although, you know, you watch the penny drop slowly with this guy.

39:02The administration has acknowledged a deported man, for example, with protected status to El Salvador because of an administrative error and says they can't get him back. They can invade Greenland, but they can't get him back from people who are paying. Again, same thing, haphazard. People do not like the haphazard nature of a lot of these things. and the tariffs, this, the rollout on things that he actually polls well on immigration, for example. Yeah, look, I mean, it's, forget the politics. What they're doing is despicable. It is despicable. It is despicable. It doesn't serve public safety.

39:41It doesn't serve the goal of immigration, enforcement, border security, as Rogan points out, it doesn't serve their own agenda. It's just cruel. It's just evil. And there's just not been enough. Rogan has had more moral clarity than a lot of Democrats on this who have scared themselves into believing that if they're talking about immigration, they're falling into a trap as if the American people cannot handle a position as simple as we believe in enforcing our immigration laws, but we have to have due process because government makes mistakes and everybody has rights. Right. Like that's not that complicated an argument.

40:27The other part of this and, you know, Liberation Day is now kind of obviously we're glib about it. And they've mostly used it to mean tariffs, but they don't just mean tariffs, right? Stephen Miller has used it to refer to immigration as well. Do we believe that the administration is going to ramp down deportations? Do we believe the administration is going to maintain this level of deportations? They are building towards greater and greater deportations. Do we believe the number of mistakes will go down as they do this more? Of course not. Of course not. And the judge, one of the judges that was looking at this said that the Nazis got better treatment under the Alien Enemies Act in World War II because she points out you could accidentally sweep up somebody who's here legally, who's a citizen.

41:24They would have no ability to seek recourse. They end up in a gulag in El Salvador and now they can't get out. Now the government is claiming they don't have the ability to bring them home. It's just like a movie. I keep feel like a Sylvester Stallone movie. It feels like I've seen these, you know, I'm an aficionado of all these kind of movies where someone's in a prison for the wrong reason or they get swept up into something silly and then they're stuck. I mean, look, look, this, this example, right? Like they, they, they keep saying, oh, you know, we were deporting the most dangerous members of Tren de Aragua, this the the Andres, the the gay hairdresser, he was not being helped when they he he came for an appointment, an asylum appointment.

42:11He thought he was going to be deported until he found himself in this nightmarish situation. The he has not spoken to his family. He doesn't know that right now there are people anger and angry and fighting for him. he is in a nightmare. He is in a country that's not his own. I can't even think about it. His head has been shaved. He's been there for weeks. There's no outside. It's torture. We're torturing these people. This is not a deportation. This is a kidnapping. The government has kidnapped these people. And then meanwhile, Christine Noem poses in kind of like, you know, torture porn, essentially, her outfits are strange.

42:52In her Rolex. Not just the Rolex, the outfits themselves, the super shiny shoes. I'm like, what are you doing? Modified Nazi? What's happening? What's the fashion? Think about the inhumanity that is required to stand in front of a group of people that are forced to be there to film this kind of fascist porn. Are you surprised in any way? I am surprised, actually. Really? I'll admit to being, I'll be admitted to being, well, when I saw it, it was surprising. I couldn't believe that they were doing it. I believe there are a lot of people who like it. I'm not surprised that there are a lot of people who liked it.

43:28But I am surprised by how quickly we've gotten this low to have the Secretary of Homeland Security basically making Viet Cong style propaganda. Do you remember the movie Network? Of course I remember the movie Network. I mean, this reminds me of this. Like this is, you know. Can you believe Network is 50 years old? It's completely pertinent. Everything on there we've done. It's unbelievable. Right. It's unbelievable how good Network is. They're going to start broadcasting executions. That's what I see. Like, you know, that kind of thing. You know, we talk, that's sort of a sci-fi trope, the idea of a national, you know, broadcast of executions.

44:02This was one step in that direction. Absolutely. And it's just the whole nine yards of it is, and they won't fix it because they're incompetent also. They're incompetent and cruel, which makes it different. Well, think about think about the yes, they are incompetent and cruel. And the most the most dangerous force in in any society is an incompetent, cruel bureaucracy, a bureaucracy that doesn't know what it's doing and doesn't care who it hurts. In history, it is the most dangerous force. And it starts it. It starts with these unsavory gang members. And the next step is a wider roundup that gets that gets a bunch of people that that they'll point to as being awful human beings who are glad to get out of the country.

44:47How dare Democrats try to protect? While meanwhile, as part of these sweep ups, you end up with legal residents, visa holders, students, citizens, citizens who don't look like a Norman Rockwell painting, who have tattoos, have accents, maybe don't speak English as well as they would like, who look like the kind of immigrants they want to deport. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where we're heading. And as they're doing that, as they're doing that, they're accusing people that do vandalism of being domestic terrorists. Right, exactly. Do you imagine that it's from, you have to think about it from political, is there a good political point of view?

45:26Because people can feel it, right? People are like, wait a minute, that could happen to me. I think that's really what gets it. Like, that seems strange. And people have that trope in their heads or people being unjustly grabbed and sent somewhere. It's very familiar from movies and, you know, history and things like that. Do you think it's an effective tool for Democrats to push in on? So we have increasing evidence that Donald Trump maybe not only outperformed among recent immigrants, but maybe won recent immigrants. There are more and more stories of people who can't believe that their family members are being impacted by this.

46:09That's not the kind of immigrants I thought Trump would, not my wife, not my husband. I thought they were going to go against. The leopard ate your face kind of thing. Right, right. And I hope people see that and feel that in the same way people voted for Trump and some of his positions on trade, poll well in the run-up to an election. And then they watch tariffs unfold and people hate it. They don't like it. They learn through the public debate and come to a new point of view, right? public debates still do manage somehow despite ourselves to educate people about the substance of issues. My my deeper hope is, you know, you see a lot of a lot of sort of hand wringing coverage about how Trump's turning us into Russia and Trump's turning us into Hungary, but that we have an advantage, which is that America is still filled with Americans and that we are an individualistic, rambunctious, rebellious, freedom-loving group.

47:04And even after years of anti-immigration propaganda and misinformation and caravans, Americans still largely are against draconian immigration policies. If you look at the polling, people want sensible—it depends on how you ask it. People still want those positions. People still obviously believe in process and people believe in the Constitution. And so we just have to figure out, we just have to make this real for people. And it is unfortunate that it does require playing defense and watching Trump do these things and then using those as examples to make it real for people. Right, right. Well, I think it's that it could happen to you.

47:44Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, that was a trope. A friend of mine was in local news. And I said, well, how do you like marketing is so interesting, like on everything. And he goes, oh, it could happen to you. That trope that they do in local news, like no matter what it is, killer bees, it could happen to you. Mold, it could happen to you. And it was very effective of getting people to listen to things. So that's what I thought, it could happen to you. And I think people then, and that's what Joe Rogan was doing. Wait a minute, I have tattoos. Just a second here. All right, let's go on a quick break.

48:13When we come back, we'll talk about the latest in the bid for TikTok. I know you're fascinated with TikTok, John. I am.

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50:47John, we're back with more news. President Trump is reportedly reviewing proposals for TikTok this week. Obviously, the administration is said to be considering bids from Blackstone, Oracle, and Marc Andreessen. Amazon threw in a last-minute bid. It actually makes sense. It's probably not a top contender, but Walmart was in the last go-round here. Oracle was, too. The TikTok ban requires no more than 20 % of TikTok or its parent companies owned by foreign adversary countries. So they're thinking about letting ByteDance stay in for 19%, apparently. I'd love to know, you use TikTok a lot, correct?

51:18Well, I'd love to know a day in the life of your For You page. But what do you think is going to happen here? And there was an interesting story, which I think there's sort of a pull that's been cast over for TikTok on this, like where it's going, who's going to own it. A lot of people feel that if they don't get the algorithm, it's not going to be as good. As a product, it's lagged a little bit recently. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but it feels like it a little bit that people aren't really creators aren't putting their shoulders into it the same way. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But how do you imagine it's going to happen here?

51:51I thought Elon might get a hold of it. Maybe not a good idea to give it to Elon right now. Yeah. From a perceptible point of view. He seems busy. I haven't noticed any change in the actual use of the app. It is interesting how much this has become Trump's decision. right? Like this, how far down the road we've come. We talk about how he wants to be the main decider on tariffs and wants people to come kind of kiss the ring. That's what we're seeing here, right? This presumably should be ByteDance's decision. Right. Well, China has to cooperate here. And now with these tariffs, I'm not so sure they're feeling cooperative.

52:29But Trump is, right. Well, that's, and that's, that, that there was some hope apparently on the part of the Chinese that TikTok was a bit of leverage in the, in the terror fight, but that doesn't appear to have gotten them anything. I don't know what happens with TikTok. I was pretty upset about the way this all went down. The law itself. The law itself, because there was very little public debate or explanation about why TikTok was so dangerous. And a lot of the explanations were about the harm it does to people. But people didn't seem to mind if that harm was being done to Americans by Americans.

53:04Instagram is awful for young people. I think TikTok can be really awful for young people. So why is it a good thing if Americans do it to each other, but a bad thing if a foreign country does it to us? Why do our own billionaires running rampage through our minds? Why is that acceptable? And so I never thought they made the public case, which is why when all of a sudden they caught the car and TikTok was about to be banned, they did this ridiculous, save TikTok, thank you, President Trump bullshit. And it worked. So I really don't like the way this went down. The law itself. Right. That it should.

53:40They didn't make the case. Many people argue that. They didn't make the case at all. They didn't. They didn't. They're just always a national security threat. Excuse me. Excuse me. Like my for you pages. Show me your homework. Show me. My for you pages, you know, recipes and old clips of Conan. A lot of recipes. Got to make the viral Turkish pasta, Kara. Really? You have recipes and Conan O 'Brien? Just, you know, among other things. Hot guys, hot guys doing new kinds of exercises, teaching me ways to lift weights. You know, that's Scott Galloway's favorites, too, just to, you know. I think that there's a big overlap between fit middle-aged men and gay guys.

54:22Like that, there's a big overlap in what they're seeing, which are just handsome man rocking their delts. Rocking their delts. What do you imagine is on mine? I don't use TikTok that much, but what do you imagine? Oh, I think there'd be, hmm, I think we'd see, you know, lesbian talk and gay talk are so separate. They're so distinct. They're such distinct universes. I don't know what we'd see with you. Woodworking, clips of Brandi Carlile, that kind of thing. No, no. You'll be surprised. ASMR. ASMR, ASMR. I love ASMR. and cooking. I like watching people cook. I like watching people. I don't want to do recipes.

54:58I just like watching people. Especially, there's one on Threads called Food Porn that I love. Do you cook? I don't. I do. I'm a good cook, but I don't. I don't do it very often as much as I should. But I like watching other people cook. That's weird. But I used to watch The Galloping Gourmet when I was a kid. I'm not going to go into it, Jeff. Okay. You remember him? And then he drank at the end. Drank himself. Who was The Galloping? I want to look up The Galloping Gourmet. Galloping Gourmet. It was a guy who seemed gay, but wasn't. Oh, the Galloping Gourmet. Look at that. Yeah, yeah. He was like Julia Child, but funnier.

55:31I used to watch him cook all the time. And then he'd always drink a bottle of wine by the end of it. And it was very amusing to an eight-year-old. When I was a kid, the Food Network launched. Yeah. And everyone was like, that's got to be a joke. How can you fill a whole network with food content? And the answer was, you can. And it's great. It was ahead of its time. But I used to watch the Food Network with my mom. I bet you like Paula Deen. I bet you secretly liked Walidine, didn't you? You know, I was at Jeffrey Weingarten. Remember Jeffrey Weingarten? Oh, yeah, of course. I remember he said, my mother and I used to joke about this for years because he said, fava beans are very in right now.

56:04And that's just something we said to each other for years. Fava beans are very in right now. They are never in. They've never been in. Anyway, what do you think the resolution is going to be? Make a prediction. I think one of these deals is going to be the deal. and it's going to basically look the same at the other side of it. And the user experience will roughly be the same, but there'll be this sort of change in ownership. It's a nothing burger. You know, it's owned by a lot of U.S. people. U.S. people own a lot of this thing. And then it's not going to be any more protected if there are problems with China.

56:36And I, unlike you, believe there are indeed abuses by the Chinese and they're a little different. I believe that. I believe that. I agree. Mark Zuckerberg is dangerous, but I don't really want the Chinese government also up in our grill in this way because they have different goals besides just fucking us. They want to fuck us and beat us kind of thing. But I think that it's going to be more dangerous than ever in those regards from a national security point of view. And they won't solve the problem. And then everyone will make money, the same people you're complaining about. But we'll see. I don't think Elon will be part of this, but maybe he will.

57:10Maybe he'll get him. He's such a nuisance, he'll probably try to get in there. All right, John, one more quick break. When we come back, we'll be doing some predictions.

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59:44Okay, John, let's hear a prediction. Do you have a prediction for us? I do have a prediction. I'm actually re-upping a prediction that I made before the election, but I want to make it here because I want it on the record, which is, I said this last year, which is that if Donald Trump won, Eric Adams would end up in the cabinet. And I just want to just lay that down once again, that I believe that that is the end result of a lot of this. mayoral election. He's going, he just announced today he's going to be an independent. And he's already, he's already started the suck up process with Trump. I just.

1:00:16What job will he get? I guess, who are they going to take out? Kash Patel? Well, I always, I thought he was always a, I thought he was a natural for Homeland Security. Oh, Kristi Noem. Hip chicken Kristi Noem. That's a natural fit for him, but I could see him at FBI too. We'll see. We'll see. Depends on when the, since how long Kristi Noem lasts? Oh my God, they're all moving here. Speaking of moving here, I'll tell you what, I'm pretty pissed about. Supposedly, Elon's leaving. I don't think he is. I think he'll, he's such a nuisance. He's going to stay. Apparently, Mark Zuckerberg bought a$23 million mansion in D.C.

1:00:50So he's here, too. I moved here, John, and they followed me here. The stalkers that they are, they're all here. You got to get close to the king. And it's all the bad ones. The ones I liked are not here. The bad ones are. If America's going to go from having a democracy to a court, you got to be near the court. That's true. I get it. I get it. honestly, although$23 million seems cheap for a house in Washington, like one of the big ones. But he was supposedly lobbying Trump to avoid the antitrust trial. I'm not so sure that's going to work. Because ultimately, as dislikable as Elon has become, Mark Zuckerberg has always been dislikable.

1:01:24And I think he polls, you know, all those polls show they still don't like him at the White House. They still don't like him. But anyway, he's here. I'm so excited to see him at brunch or over drinks at Cafe Moana. Do these people leave their... Do they leave the compound? Are you going to see them at the restaurants? They just don't leave their houses, right? They're not going to leave their houses. I mean, unless there's some MMA fighting or something happening, he'll not be going anywhere. But we'll see. I just don't want them here. I'd like them to leave. Already, I'm not thrilled to be here, but here I am.

1:01:57And I actually live here. You're not thrilled to be there? I like it. I like it. I like it. You should try LA. I love LA. I love California. I cannot get my wife to move us back to California. Put me in. Put me into this debate. Put me in. All right. I shall. I shall now. I really want to be part of that. I have this beautiful new studio you're seeing behind me. I like D.C. very much. It's very lovely. And you've spent a lot of time here. But I really miss California so much. That's for you, right? Los Angeles. I love Los Angeles. It's so beautiful. Despite all the problems you've been having lately, it's still...

1:02:28I was just in San Francisco. It was gorgeous. It's wonderful. So anyway, I will not go on about that. John, one thing before we go, is there something you're watching or reading that you love lately? I mean, everyone's talking about White Lotus, obviously, or Severance. Is there anything else? I'll tell you. I've gone back to the beginning of Real Housewives of New York. And it is a joy. Look, when the world is - Rewatching it? Okay. I'm starting from, I never watched it before. So I'm going back to the very first season of Real Housewives of New York. I have been resistant, I think from a kind of snootiness to Real Housewives for years.

1:03:05I've always said to myself, I don't like the reality shows. I like competitive reality shows, but I don't like the true bravo. Right. And in hindsight, that was I was hurting my own viewing. The Real Housewives are incredible. And I do believe it is hard to understand Trump. Right. People call up, talk about him being a reality show because of The Apprentice. But that was a competitive show. You really need to understand real housewives. Now that I see it, it is a great way to understand how Trump operates and the way these women use conflict to draw attention to themselves. Oh, all right. You love it.

1:03:41It's a joy. That's interesting. So go rewatch that. I'm going to give the recommendation Hacks is about to come back. And I love Jean Smart and Hannah Einbender. Yeah, she's they're amazing. It looks hysterical. and I think they're the best pair of like, speaking of conflict, the two, the most fantastic pair that I never expected. So I'm very excited for that comeback online. Anyway, okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week with more and Scott will be back from his college tour. Just so you know, he hung out with my son in his frat yesterday and I can't wait to hear that story.

1:04:20But thank you so much, John. You can hear John on Podsafe America and love it or leave it every week wherever you listen to podcasts. They're wonderful podcasts. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Anderdot engineered this episode. Jim McIll edited this video. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

1:04:55And John, thank you so much. Thank you.

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