MAGA War Chest, Nuclear Subs, and Texas Dems Flee

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27:02and TikTok investor Jeffrey Yass. Contributions also came in from crypto executives, an energy, which makes sense to me, an energy company, and a mother seeking a pardon for her son, who got one. A spokeswoman for MAGA Inc. rejected claims that the donations were exchanged for access, saying Trump, quote, cannot be bought and works toward the best interests of the country. It feels pay to play to me. The New York Times had a pretty devastating piece about that. But does the money go towards helping Republicans in the midterms or is Trump really considering that? third term, which you referenced just a second ago.

27:35Well, I think you have to take Trump seriously about him wanting a third term. And I think you have to take Steve Bannon seriously about him running for a third term. Now, up against that, he'll be 82 years old. It looks like he does have some vascular issues. I mean, they've reported that. So let's say that that's probably true. And he's got an unsteady gait and he's getting older. but I don't think a guy like him leaves power easily. I just don't think that. And so I hope that, and I hope that my buddies who are institutionalists in Washington say that that's the last stand for them, that they'll fight that tooth and nail.

28:16Those are Republicans saying that, who I'm still a donor to several of these Republican senators, but I don't know. You have to take him literally and seriously when he's thinking about these things. I don't think that money goes to lots of people in the midterms. Trump is for Trump. He's not for other people. He doesn't give a shit. And so I think this is something very smart that he's done, though. And I think people should understand this. He's not a traditional politician, a traditional politician, an Obama, a George W. Bush stops raising money in their second term for their own PACs. He didn't do that.

28:52And I think he's now setting a precedent for future politicians to not do that because that will give him, let's say he was a normal politician. He'd go, oh, I got leverage now in the system long after I'm laying duct and I can pick and choose who I'm going to give this money to in different congressional races. I don't think Trump's going to do that. Trump will figure out a way to use that money. I think the pardons are going up now, probably$100 million now for a pardon. They started at the$3 to$5 million level. And Trump should just put out a retail price list. Say, look, here's the list for all the shit that you can get from me.

29:26You want to come out and dinner with me? You're a crypto guy, 5 million. You want a pardon now? It's got to be 100 million. You didn't go to that dinner, did you? Did you go to that dinner? No, I haven't seen or been around Trump. You want to know the last time I talked to Trump? When? It was April. It was Easter Sunday, April of 2019. He called me. I thought he was calling me to wish me a happy Easter, but he wasn't. He was calling me to lay into me because I had written an article that said that it was an open letter to the president. The press is not the enemy of the people. Stop saying that.

30:02The press is there to protect the people. But it's also the font of our financial innovation. You and I have talked about this. Being able to speak freely in a society, you teach second grade children that they can speak freely. They go on and become Kara Swisher or they create a Facebook or they create an iPhone. Other countries that don't do that, they have to steal our technology. Trump got really pissed at me, laid into me. And he told me that I was a deep stater and some other shit that he said. And that was the last time he spoke. So, no, I haven't been around Trump since then. Happy Easter.

30:35Yeah, happy Easter. What are you saying when someone says that? Okay. I disagree. And I think you're being wrong. I think you're wrong. I think history is going to judge what I'm saying to be more right than you. Right. And then he more or less abruptly hung up the phone. Oh, wow. But I got in the Happy Easter, by the way. He did derisively say Happy Easter back to me. Yeah, I mean. He's a miserable dude. He's a miserable dude. Let me give a newsflash to every Pivot listener, okay? Okay, newsflash. Anybody close to Trump hates his guts, okay? Okay. If you're in Trump's orbit, you're in the first electron orbit.

31:06Laura Loomer seems to like him. Who does? Laura Loomer. Yeah, I think Laura's not in the, I don't think she's in the first electron orbit. Right, okay. I'm talking about, you got to be in the first electron orbit. You're Melania Trump. You move out of the goddamn White House. You got to get, if you're Ivanka and Jared, you got to stay away because he eviscerated Jared after the Abraham Accord thing. And so you got to get out of his electron orbit. But if you're in the vortex of the orbit, General Kelly, HR McMaster, you pick the person. They hate the guy's guts because they see how malevolent of a guy he is.

31:43They see how dishonest and how ruthless he is. And that shit rubs off on you, Kyra Swisher, if you're sitting around it too long. You start to stink like it. It's toxic. Sounds like it. Yeah, you start to stink like it. Speaking of toxic, let's do a quick rundown of latest happenings with the Epstein saga, which I predicted would continue. And it is. Charlemagne Lagarde suggested the Trump administration's handling of the Epstein information is causing a political coup among Republicans on Fox News. Trump reacted on True Social, saying the radio host knows nothing. Jelaine Maxwell has been moved to a minimum security prison camp in Texas against sexual offenders aren't allowed there, but she has been allowed.

32:20And Republicans are still split on which side to take as polling shows almost 80 percent of Trump voters in favor of releasing the files. I have not talked to you about this. Thoughts on what's happening and how long it lasts? Because everyone felt it was a distraction. I never did because it's at the core of QAnon. It's at the core of the deep state stuff. And he himself has fed these toxic creatures for far too long for them to just give up. I think he's going to survive this too. I mean, maybe I'm on the other side of this trade than you. I think he survives this. Oh, I think he survives it.

32:52I just think it's damaging. Yeah. Well, I think it's damaging. Maybe Charlemagne's right. It sets up a 26 divergence, meaning there could be conservative Republicans that say, I'm MAGA-lite or I'm a little less MAGA. I'm MAGA without pedophilia. You see Marjorie Taylor Greene doing it. Yeah. Maybe I'm maggot without pedophilia. I don't know. That could be a good bumper sticker. I don't, you know, I'm, you know, I'm 18 plus. I'm not 14 and below. Disgusting sons of bitches. But but Trump is, you know, he's where there's smoke, there's fire. OK, you can't see him with Epstein. You can't there's smoke, there's fire there.

33:30the letter has got Trump so crazed because the letter plus the doodling on the letter is implying something that Trump does not want out there in the marketplace, which is why he's put a $10 billion speed bump together against Rupert Murdoch and his, and a news court. But, you know, and Rupert doesn't give a shit. You know, Rupert hates Trump like everybody else. And his attitude is I'm 94, have at it. Let me drop a few more bombs on you. We have the bombs. Okay. So now Now, again, you have to tell me if there's something unthinkably nefarious, I'm not going to say what it is, but you know what it is and your viewers and listeners know what it is.

34:10If that comes out and it's incontrovertible, it's not AI generated, it's not any of that, it's incontrovertible evidence of something unthinkably nefarious, is that enough to remove Trump? I think you think it is, you know, oh, the McCain thing's going to ruin him, doesn't ruin him. oh we're gonna grab him by the you know what in the in the bus with billy bush no it doesn't nothing hurts trump it could damage him insurrection yeah insurrection i mean the people are dying he fomented the violence they have him on tape doing it they had his former chief of staff uh basically was going to be their key witness he wins the election i think we should stipulate for the pivot people.

34:54He's one of the luckiest son of a bitches on the planet. Every time he flips the coin, it comes up his way. So I don't think he gets knocked out by this, but I do think that just the Galane thing is interesting. So the Galane thing is like, okay, let me send my lawyer who I trust. Hey, let me knock on the... Galane, are you there? Hello. Are you there? Okay, listen. I know you know a lot of bad stuff. Keep your mouth shut. We're going to move you to a minimum security prison. We're going to make it easier for you. You listening? And then in about six months, when this blows over, we're going to commute your sentence, or we're going to give you work relief, or we're going to do something for you.

35:38But you got to keep your mouth shut. It's a great mob move. They're doing it right out in the open, like the way the KGB would do it. So it's keep your mouth shut. Because if she starts to just tell on Democrats, that's a problem too, correct? No, no, no. You got to keep your mouth shut. Mouth shut. You got to keep your mouth shut because - Olmerta as us Italians, you and me know. Yes, as Olmerta. You got to keep your mouth shut. That's like a full-on Sicilian move, the code of silence. And by the way, with Olmerta, you keep your mouth shut. Remember, when a mobster went to jail, keep your mouth shut.

36:08We're going to take care of your family. And they're going to get vig from our operations to take care of your sons and daughters and your wife. and when you come out of jail, we're going to get you a job. Now you can end up like Sylvester Stallone in Oklahoma, but you're going to get a job, right? And so that's what it is. And that's what Trump and Todd Blanchard are trying to do. I think that's pretty obvious. But this is the thing that makes me laugh. John Thune, you're an American jellyfish. I mean, you write such great books like Burn Book and shit like that. You should write the American jellyfish starring starring John Thune and Mitch McConnell, starting the American jellyfishes.

36:44What are you guys doing? You're really this big of cowards? You got a guy that's morally depraved. He's bringing down your party. He's a millstone on the morality of the American people. When you and I were growing up, we liked to think of America in our patriotism as benevolent and generous and good-natured America that was going to help other nations. And now we have this morally depraved lunatic in the White House that's stealing our thunder and is reducing our soft power all over the world, okay, which is never a good thing for a superpower, by the way. You can go throughout 5 ,000 years of history and know that's never a good thing.

37:27And yet he's doing that. We're allowing him to do that because we've got a bunch of bozos that are supposed to check him, the American jellyfishes. What are you guys doing? And the answer is, no, no, we're going to wait Trump out, wait him out. We're so afraid of him and we're afraid of his MAGA base. Yeah. So why? When do they turn? Is there - Well, yeah, the midterm. That's why Trump has got all that money in the war chest. He knows they're coming for him in the midterms. You remember that scene in The Wizard of Oz where the witch gets accidentally hit by the water bucket and she starts melting?

38:03Right. It's actually like an orange witch, though he's not really like the green witch, but he's like an orange wicked witch of the West Wing. The water's about to hit Trump. Yeah. And that's like a November 2026 water hit. And as he starts to melt, these guys are like, oh, you know, we didn't mean this. Or, oh, we didn't realize this. Or, oh, we're sorry about that. If he melts. If, in fact, water hits. Like, let me say this to you, and I want you to really think about this, okay? They're running around saying they're going to arrest Clinton. It's Hillary Clinton. They're going to arrest Barack Obama.

38:35Okay. It's all contraindicated from an intelligence report that the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Marco Rubio, signed off on, which was irrefutable that everything that they're saying is not true. Why are they doing that? They're doing that to distract you. They're doing that to rev up the MAGA base. They're doing that to say, don't look at the man behind the curtain that's flapping behind the curtain, focus on this, which is important to you. Obama is bad. There's underlying racism to that, by the way. I think you know that. Obviously. I just don't think it works. I don't think it works.

39:13I think the Epstein stuff is much stronger. It hasn't worked yet. He's tried with the Washington Redskin Commanders and the Cleveland Guardian Indians. He's now going at it with the young woman who was in the Jean commercial. I I think her name is Sidney Sweeney. And yeah, so he's definitely trying stuff. You know, he's a, remember, he's the Napoleon of the culture war. Like the best thing that Trump has going for him are the Democrats. Because he knows how to drop a bomb on the battlefield and they run towards it. And then he's doing something over here. You know, he's master of deflection. All right.

39:49We're going to get to that next, actually. We're going to go on a quick break and we come back. We're going to talk about the Corporation for Public Broadcasting as it winds down operations. because there are very real repercussions to everything he's doing with these distractions.

40:05From Pushkin Industries, I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and Heavyweight is back. The new season is bigger than ever. Bigger hopes. I keep waiting for this moment when he says, Mom, I get it. I'm sorry. Bigger dreams. Tom Hanks wants to meet with you. This is a real chance. And bigger heartbreaks. I thought it would be my movie moment. And maybe he would even whisper in my ear, I've always been in love with you. Check out new episodes of Heavyweight on Apple Podcasts.

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43:07Anthony, we're back with more news. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting says it will begin winding down operations following an over$1 billion cut in federal funding. The move, it's not very big, it's about 100 people. The move will, what they do is they distribute funds out to local stations, a lot of them rural, by the way. The move will severely impact local operations of PBS and NPR. Both NPR and PBS say they're committed to maintaining service after the closure. The CPB told employees most positions will be eliminated on September 30th. This is a loss of local news in rural communities.

43:40This is a closing not of the big NPR stations or PBS stations, but the small ones, which provide all kinds of news and other things like that in places that don't have them. And I'm going to link it with institutions worried about losing funding. The Smithsonian will restore information about President Trump's impeachments after removing a placard on the topic in July. This was reported by The Washington Post. The museum says the plaque was removed after a review of legacy content, which was demanded by the Trump administration, was meant to be a temporary addition to a 25-year exhibition. The exhibition in question notes that only three presidents have seriously faced removal, Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton.

44:19It's not true. A person familiar with the plans told The Washington Post the content review took place following this pressure from the White House to remove an art museum director. So museums altering history, closing down of long institutions, which is something Republicans have wanted for a while, but it will actually affect the small local news in rural communities more than anybody else. This is more than a distraction because it actually, things happen. Things actually happen. I mean, this is Trump. He's the, you know, look, there were certain rules in Washington. The sacred cow of the left was the public broadcasters.

44:59Ronald Reagan railed on it, but he never did anything. Remember, Ronald Reagan railed on Roe v. Wade, but never did anything. And Trump has come into town, and he's basically now saying, hey, those sacred rules where we rail on, you're on the left and you rail on something on the right and you don't do anything and vice versa, we're ending that. And again, I think it makes for a coarser society. If you're asking me practically, will the society survive the end of that? It will. Does it suck for those rural areas? It does, but it will survive it. Okay. And could something else creep up or could there be a publicly funded or non-publicly funded, a charitably funded replacement?

45:45It's all very possible. all. But I think to me, it's more about the rules, Cara. It's more about, okay, we're going to smash people. We don't want any civility to our government. We don't want anybody having lunch in the cloakroom or the cafeteria. Apparently, they can barely work out with each other in the gym now. They're in separate areas of the gym. And it's just bad for America. That's not how we got here. The idea was that we were going to have some consensus, we're going to have some compromise, and we're going to have some civility with each other. And Trump doesn't like that, because remember, there's nobody that Trump hates more than himself.

46:30Nobody. Which is why he's always got three things of a self-hater. Humiliation rituals for people that you're insecure around. That's every world leader. He tries to bring him into the White House and ensnare them in some type of humiliation ritual. Publicly humiliation. Or, yeah, or he'll bring them to Scotland, even though he's the head of state, Keir Starmer, he's showing up at a guest in his own country to be humiliated, where Trump is railing on the London mayor. And so what self-haters do is they create and foment hatred. They excoriate and try to humiliate through humiliation rituals. and then the third thing they do is they want to leave a stain and legacy of that they want people to be turned on each other because it makes them feel better they get satisfaction out of seeing people turn on each other right trump gets off on the idea that we're going after each other he likes right right so those are things he's a i mean he's he's a he's a you know a lot of weird things about the guy's like a weirdo but like the self-hatred thing do not underestimate the self-hatred you know it could be the side effects of all the orange shit that's going into his bloodstream you know what i mean you you everyone talks about these are distractions you've said it several times these are actual things that happen now like we're changing things in museums we're closing down this and so i was i was at a at a at a book fair this weekend and jeff goldberg who who has had some good licks in on Trump at the Atlantic, was saying, you know, that he does all these distractions.

48:10And I almost got and said, well, here's six things that actually happened because of the distractions. They're not minor. We use that term a lot. But they're actually distractions with results, right? Like this is something that the right has been trying to close down PBS for years, or the corporation for years, decades. Okay, but let me just take the line. Think about what I'm saying, though. We're going to close down PBS because it's going to make people soar. And it's a sacred cow that the Republicans always talked about but never did anything about. So now we're going to drop a bomb here to widen the divide between us.

48:51I see. Trump wants to do that. So you have to understand that, yes, there are distractions, but there's also, I want to leave a legacy of disrepair and hatred. And I want you guys to hate each other after I leave, you know, because by the way, Jackie, oh, F her. I'm going to pave over her rose garden. Okay. Because why am I going to do that? Because you're going to get triggered and pissed about that. And I want you triggered and pissed because I hate myself so much that I want hatred to be an exponential force from my personality. Like, you know, Monroe had a doctrine, stay out of the Western Hemisphere.

49:29Truman had a doctrine, we're going to contain communism. The Trump doctrine is a manifestation of his own self-hatred. And once you see that prism clearly and you see, oh, okay, he hates himself. So this is what he's going to do. Oh, wow, he's really afraid of Putin. Putin must really have something on him that's scaring the living daylights out of him, which is why he's immobile and paralyzed against the guy that's running a failed state with a declining population and high alcoholism. But I'm going to go, I'm going to go in that direction. But everything is through the prism of self-hatred. So if he can hurt you, Kara, he will.

50:08If he can humiliate you, he will. if he can put J.D. Vance in a meme where he looks like a big, fat cabbage patch doll riding in a separate clown car from him as they're chasing Obama on the freeway in the O.J. Bronco, he will. And by the way, J.D. says, ha ha, this was funny. He's crying on the inside. He's crying on the inside. That's another episode for us. No, but Carrie, you have to understand, because Trump is going to put him through, you remember that scene in Fargo where the guy's going through the wood chipper, that's J.D. Vance. Okay, Trump is going to throw him so definitively into the wood chipper because he doesn't want a younger guy replacing him when he leaves.

50:51No, he wants there to be a total fiasco, a civil war. Who does he want? Just very briefly, who does he want? If you had a guess, who would he pick? Nobody. Remember when he fired that blonde girl, can't remember her name, the blonde woman from the first season of Apprentice, he replaced her with Ivanka. Remember she got a few speaking gigs It pissed him off, right? And so then he put Vivanka. So if Vivanka and Don Jr. are not replacing him or Eric not replacing him, nobody. Remember what it, I know I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler, but just remember this piece of history. When they told Hitler he was losing, he said, okay, great, flood the coal mines, bring down the electrical grid in the country.

51:31And they looked at him and said, what? Yeah, well, if there's not going to be a thousand year Reich, let's destroy the whole thing. If you were to pick one of the kids that he would pick to run, which one would it be? Well, you know, Ivanka is very smart. She's very talented. She's capable. Eric is a very smart guy. You know, when I listen to Eric talk about things like the blockchain, he understands it, okay? But the heartbeat of MAGA is Donald Trump Jr., okay? They like him, okay? And so I don't know, you know, I don't know which of those three, but I think Trump would be happy with all three, but they're three different flavors.

52:07You know, Ivanka is basically a Democrat, right? So, you know, probably no on her. Eric is not politically motivated, but he's probably smarter, you know, than most people think. But it probably would have to be Don Jr. Don Jr. is beloved by the base. If you ever see him with the base, you'll know they hold him in very high regard. And do you? Okay, so I have a peace agreement with those guys. You know, when I got into the fight with Trump, I always got along with them. And my agreement with them was, don't say anything bad about me on Twitter. I won't say anything bad about you. Kara Swisher is going to ask you about me on the Pivot podcast five years from now.

52:46Don't say anything bad about me. And I have lived up to that agreement. And they have lived up to that agreement. So I'll simply say, I get on with those guys. Eric wanted to come to my Bitcoin conference in Wyoming. I invited him. No problem. I think they know that their father wants to pick fights with lots and lots of people. And I don't think they want to be fighting with all the people that their father wants them to fight with. Got it. That makes sense. All right, Anthony, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

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54:27There is a lot to talk about when we talk about Donald Trump and Jimmy Kimmel. One big question I've got is why in 2025, our late night TV shows like Jimmy Kimmel show still on TV? Even in our diminished times, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, they're just some of the biggest faces of their networks. If you start taking the biggest faces off your networks, You might save some nickels and dimes, but what are you even anymore? What even is your brand anymore? I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels. And that was James Ponowozik, the TV critic for The New York Times. This week, we're talking about Trump and Kimmel, free speech, and a TV format that's remained surprisingly durable for now.

55:16That's This Week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

55:25Okay, Anthony, let's hear some wins and fails. You go first. Okay, so wins, I'm going to say this. You're probably not going to like this, but I think Elon Musk is winning. I think he's backed into business. I think he raised a lot of money on XAI. I participated in that. I will fully disclose that I'm an investor. But I think Elon Musk is winning. And I think so much so, and I think Donald Trump is so afraid of Elon Musk. He must be. He started the Epstein thing. The Epstein thing, and he tweeted out, oh, I love Elon. I'm not coming after his businesses, you know, blah, blah. Okay, so I think Elon Musk is winning.

56:02So that's a big win. He got, he just, so people know, Tesla just granted shares to Elon worth$29 billion, describing his accrued-face award. Yeah, so that's another big win, less than the$55 billion. That's correct. I was like, well, it's a half. Yeah, but, you know, that's also a win. But I think Elon's winning, whether people like that or not. I think that's a definitive objective win. So you invested in XAI. You think that's a winner? Or I think he's a real behind. He's really quite behind in the race compared to Google or ChatGPT. You think he's behind? I don't know. I put$300 a month into Super Grok.

56:35I think the thing is phenomenal. Okay. And I think it's distinctive. But again, that's me. I'm not an AI expert. I use it for different things. I'm a cloud, I guess it's called, subscriber, a ChatGPT subscriber. You use them all. You use them all. I do spend a lot of time on that. If Elon goes and does his businesses, he's better off. That's for sure. But I do think he is quite involved. He was the one that started the Epstein stuff. So that was a warning to Trump. So I'm going to tell you another winner. I'll give you three winners and I'll give you three losers. Another big winner, controversial, Jerome Powell.

57:12Because Jerome Powell's legacy is intact. The guy's done a decent job. Not perfect. He got transitory inflation wrong. It was more secular. But he's done a decent job. He's a good human being. And he's one of the few guys that have stuck it to Trump a little bit. And he started in a very diplomatic way with some level of aplomb. And I think people need to learn about it that way. And then the third winner, believe it or not, is actually the UK government related to the US because they got the deal. They moved first, took advantage of Trump's love affair with the monarchy and the Anglophile flile nature of Trump and his mom from Scotland.

57:52And they got a 10 % trade deal done before anybody else. And I think that they're a winner. I think the three failures, okay, are Vladimir Putin, huge failure. He's coming to the end here, Vladimir Putin. I don't think Vladimir Putin will survive what's coming because you can't do what he did, declare war on Ukraine, lose the war and stay in power in Russia. And you say, well, he hasn't lost the war, but he also hasn't won the war. And it's three years into it. And he may be able to stalemate this because of the compromise he has on Trump till 28. But I think you'll see Putin out to the great surprise of people.

58:34So he's a failure. Another big failure is the American car industry is going to be slammed around by these tariffs. They won't be able to absorb all the prices. They're making good cars, but they're not making great cars. The tariffs on the European cars are not going to overly help them, frankly, because a lot of Mercedes and BMW are being made in the country now. And so I think there's a problem there for the American car company. I think that's on the side of failure. And last but not least, the biggest failure that I've seen in the five years, what I would say, if he's put out the yard markers and said, okay, last five, there's been 10 years of Trump, who's been the greatest failure in the last five years?

59:20That's the American Congress. The American Congress had a responsibility to check and balance the American system. And to use an Italian expression, they did UGOTs. They did UGOTs. Okay. And your viewers and listeners could look up what UGOTs means, but they've really done nothing. And they're going to be judged very poorly by history. So those are the three winners. Those are three failures. All right. I'm going to do mine. I'm going to do just two failures, actually, that were really striking in two different places. One, the Israeli government just votes to remove the attorney general, who's a Netanyahu critic.

59:58I think they have done more to diminish their standing, especially among young people, and they have only themselves to blame, especially what's happening in Gaza. More and more people are calling it a genocide. We can see with our eyes what's happening there. And so I think this government is hurtling towards illegality, you know what I mean, in the things they're doing. And I think the thing that holds up a country is a country of laws. And, you know, you believe in the stock market, you believe in the laws, you believe in the courts. And I think he's going to see a lot of pushback from people in that country at some point.

1:00:32And I think they've done it to themselves. They have lost a generation of young people who would have been supportive of Israel. So I think that's, especially this voting to remove the attorney general, which is, I think, at the heart of things like that, because he's a Netanyahu critic and Netanyahu's sucked up into corruption that is so obvious. And he's bad at it, by the way. Trump is quite good at corruption. And Netanyahu's bad at it. The other thing is Nancy Mace running for governor of South Carolina. I think I've never seen a politician just sort of run herself into a wall on so many things.

1:01:08Someone who seemed promising for sure has become really a joke to everybody in Congress that I talk to. I think she's looking for her exit to try to run for governor. She'll certainly be ahead in the beginning because of her name recognition and the antics that she pulls. But I think she's probably like a lot of men can do it a little better, but they're not necessarily. And I think she has ruined what could have been a really interesting political career. But I think she's got a lot of personal problems that are on top of that. If I had to say, I agree with you about Elon. If he gets back to business, I think he's I think Trump should be everyone was talking about him being he should be scared of Trump.

1:01:50I think Trump should be scared of him. That's my feeling. I think he's not Omarosa, like I say. He's not Omarosa. And he is the first person who mentioned the Epstein stuff. He has enormous power around the world. And so I think if he gets back to business and focuses there, he has a lot of levers to pull. Not to interrupt, but just remember this one tweet, which was very insightful. Elon said, you're going to be around for three and a half years. I'm going to be around for the next 40. Correct. Correct. And I think Elon, whatever his weaknesses are, and I'm sure we all have strengths and weaknesses.

1:02:26He's got a lot of weaknesses. Okay, but - You're very kind to him. I think we have to stipulate that he's a smart guy. Absolutely. And he sees the egg. He sees the hair on the egg, particularly as it relates. By the way, I told his buddies he was going to get blown out of there. Elon lasted 12 Scaramucci's. He did. Okay, 12 times longer. By the way, it was exactly 11.8. Yeah. But I'm the official scorer of Scaramucci's. I think I should be. And I'm a generous guy. I round up. So he lasted 12 Scaramucci's. And that was 12 times longer than me. But here's the thing. Elon has seen the malevolence.

1:03:03Because you don't write, you're on the list. That's a code for you're a really bad FG. You're a really bad FG. Yep, I agree with you. I think he's someone who's going to endure. And if he cleaned himself up, I mean, a lot of what he's done is unforgivable, but he will be forgiven, especially if he creates economic value. And he will be around a lot longer. I don't think that's necessarily a win, but I think he definitely is in much more of a commanding position than Trump realizes. And I think he was wrong to do what they did to him. I think there would have been a nicer way to part. But you can't do that with Trump.

1:03:41You can't do that. You can't do it. That's right. I would see Trump maybe embracing him again. Anyway, I don't know if Elon will embrace Trump, though. I think he's moved on. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot. Submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Over on On with Kara Swisher this week, I spoke with former Labor Secretary Robert Reich about why Democrats are struggling right now. Let's listen to a clip. The reason Democrats are so unpopular is they don't have a coherent and authentic message that translates to average people as authentic and real.

1:04:21Because the corporate Democrats, the financial Democrats, the Wall Street Democrats don't allow them to. You know, a lot of Democrats I know are scared. They don't want to bite the hands that feed them. I think you'll probably agree with that, Anthony. I agree. He is a former professor of mine. I have an enormous amount of respect for him. But he also gave an interview in one of the Sunday news magazines. I can't remember if it was the New York Times or the FT, but I read the interview. And he's calling for the Mondamis and he's calling for these sort of harder left people to coalesce the party.

1:04:57I think that'll be a 1972 McGovern-like nightmare for the Democrats. And I think it's a big mistake because it's a center-right country. We have religious orthodoxy in this country. You and I might be secular. I'm not saying you are, but I'm more secular than the religious orthodox. But I think that Europeans in general don't understand this because they by and large now the majority of the population is secular, but this country has a lot of religious ferocity to it still. And I think that, I think the Democrats have really missed the mark on that. You know what Trump once said to me, this important thing to tell your viewers, Trump said to me on the campaign plane, he says, you know, you're an idiot.

1:05:42I said, yes, I know I'm an idiot, but why am I an idiot? He said, well, you're a Wall Street guy, you're fiscally conservative and you're socially liberal. Am I right? I said, yes, I'm fiscally conservative, socially liberal. He says, my base, Anthony, my base, fiscally liberal, socially conservative. He's correct. Actually, I just was talking to Kristen Sultis-Anderson. She said that exactly. It is true. He said that to me in 2016, the Democrats wake up, wake up. He understands his base. And believe it or not, a lot of his face used to vote for you. Okay. And so wake up and get in the middle before it's too late.

1:06:27Well, I have a different take on this. I think everybody should be who they are and authentic of where they are. If you're Abby Spanberger, you're a centrist right in Virginia or Mickey Sherrill in New Jersey. And if you're Mom Donnie, be mom, be yourself. I think be yourself is, and it may be different across the country. And I'm not sure anyone should stand for anything with the Democrats. I think they should stand for a lot of things. And I know that sounds crazy, But if you're genuine to who you are, I think you do well where you are. We're always looking for someone who represents everybody.

1:06:57And that's impossible in this day and age. So I think it's well said. But I just think if you're going to go hard left in this country right now, particularly with the wokeism ending, go hard left, you're going to lose elections. That's what I think. You may win in New York and you may win in Minnesota. You may win the mayor's race in Minnesota, Minneapolis, but you're going to lose the big general election. And it's going to be very painful. If you're not, for the general election, for the larger country, that's absolutely true. But we'll see. We'll see where it goes. Can I ask you one last question?

1:07:27Please. Right now, I want to do a prediction. Who are the two presidential flights in 2028? So I think Newsom is going to be the nominee for the Democrats. I think he'll pick a Midwestern moderate. He'll probably pick a white guy. I know that sounds crazy, but I think he probably will. It'll end the virtue signaling that's going on on the left. and you'll get the same policies and they'll be more acceptable to some of the anti-woke moderates that are out there. So I think it's Newsom. Not Westmore. Not Westmore. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think, well, you know, I mean, I don't know how honest you want me to be on this podcast, but I think Obama has hurt the ability for an African-American to get the nomination.

1:08:13I don't think people realize the existential damage that Obama did. Van Jones called it a white lash. That was the apotheosis of Donald Trump. And so I think the way Obama handled the presidency has hurt that, if I'm just being brutally honest. And I think the last two women that were the nominees for the Democrats have hurt the women standing in the party for now. And people could be very mad at me for saying this. I'm talking about this as a realist, as an analyst, not a normative thing of what ought or should be. I'm just talking about what actually is. I think Newsom gets it. Newsom has shown some muscularity.

1:08:51Newsom did a good job in LA in terms of the way they defended themselves against Trump's brown-shirted lunatics. And Newsom is standing up on the gerrymandering. And Newsom is putting a finger in Trump's eye. And he's doing a better job trolling him in social media. He's doing a great job. And I think he was. And by the way, I was on Gavin's podcast. Yeah. And I read to Gavin - He's gotten to every white guy, but I joke with him. I'm like, another white guy today. How interesting. The other thing I would tell you just quickly is that it will not be, it will not be Marco Rubio. It will not be J.D.

1:09:26Vance. But I think there'll be a candidate that comes out of the woodwork that surprises people. I know this is crazy. It could be a Charlie Baker who's now running the NCAA. He was the former governor of Massachusetts. Very popular governor. It could be a John Thune, okay? Although I think he's a jellyfish. I think he's a well-regarded - President jellyfish to you. Go ahead. Yeah, President jellyfish to me, but I think he's a guy that could help the Republicans get back to something that's more normal to their principles and their philosophy. But I don't think it's going to be Vance. And I don't think, remember, MAGA ends with Trump.

1:10:08It's a personality cult. The people have more or less accepted that, even though they don't like pedophilia. They're holding their noses, lots of them. But Vance won't be able to command that or Rubio. And so I think it's like a Thune Baker sort of a guy going up against Newsom. It'll be white males. Yeah, white males as far as you could see. Going up against white males, Gareth. The males are as high as an elephant's eye. I can hear the derision in your voice, but I just think that's what's going to happen. Yeah, I agree with you. I have to say I do agree with you, although I'm not sure it's Newsom, but there's a number of choices in that regard.

1:10:46Okay, that is the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Anthony, as usual, thank you for joining us. Appreciate being on. Give my regards to Scott. I will. And thank you so much. I will read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Nishat Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod.

1:11:22We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. And Anthony, I'll be right over to look in your closet and put on your Batman outfit. Thank you. You would fit in my Batman outfit. You know, you have the same facial structure as me. Goodbye. Me and Adam West have a lot to come. Goodbye, Mooj. Talk to you later. All right. See you.