Market Meltdown, Tariff Winners and Losers, and TikTok Deadline Delayed

24:40Their economic advisors are fucking turning to chat GPT. Let's go to your second question, what to do as an investor. This is what you do. Nothing. And that is whether it's you getting a divorce, whether you lose someone you love, whether you get fired, you do not make big life decisions in the midst of emotional trauma because you are not thinking straight. In addition, tomorrow morning, he could announce, say you sell all your stocks today, he could announce tomorrow morning that he's removing all tariffs. He's capable of doing that. And the markets could rip up 2000 points. And then what happens to your mental health when you're sold at the bottom?

25:22Probably the worst piece of financial advice given to media was when Jim Cramer, who I don't think, I don't think he's malice. I think is a good guy trying to do the right thing. He told investors at the very bottom, if you don't like this volatility, you should sell your stocks. Within 14 months, we had recovered all of our losses. If you sold, when Jim Cramer suggested you might want to think about getting out, you saw your net worth cut in half. And even more damaging to your financial well-being was your mental well-being, because you saw everybody else get back exactly where they were, and you were the idiot that sold at the bottom.

25:57This is what I'm doing. Since Q4 of last year, I just look at the S &P. Apple's trading at 38 times earnings and it's not growing. I have been selling down U.S. stocks and I have been diversifying into Latin American and European and some Asian stocks, because if you're just invested in the U.S., you are not diversified. And see above a re-rating down a contraction in the multiple of U.S. stocks. You may want to think about maybe taking some tax losses, harvesting some tax losses. Talk to people. Talk to people. Have a kitchen cabinet. Don't do anything rash. You're out of emotion. But I think if you were to diversify into European stocks, which, by the way, you're not buying low and selling low and buying high.

26:41European stocks have been hit hard, too. You're a little bit more diversified, which I think is a vastly underrated strategy. D-E-R, that's stock. All right, we're going to go to a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk a little bit more about the losers and some winners from the Trump tariffs.

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28:45Scott, we're back. The number of sectors took a beating from Trump's tariff, and it's been particularly rough for big tech. In two days after the tariffs were announced, Apple dropped 16 percent, Matt fell 14. Amazon was down 13. Nice job, boys, of going to the inauguration. That really paid off for you. The two-day drop wiped out$31 billion in net worth for Elon Musk at$23 billion for Jeff Bezos and$27 billion for Mark Zuckerberg. I feel so bad for them. How's the investment in Trump paying off now? As a reporter of the weekend, a number of these folks want to go to Mar-a-Lago to talk to him about this.

29:18I don't know if they've done it yet, but this was the rumor that was going down that they are really, and also bankers. Elon doesn't seem to agree with Trump on tariffs. And of course, speaking his mind, he said on Saturday that he hoped Europe and the U.S. would affect him to zero tariff situation, effectively creating a free trade zone. Totally opposite. He also had a couple of posts calling out Peter Navarro, Trump's trade advisor, who is such an idiot. All the this I agree with Elon on all this as EU regulators are reportedly preparing to inflict a billion dollar fine against X for breaking a law to combat illicit content and disinformation.

29:50That's separate. This is interesting that he's doing that. The person that's looking more like a genius than ever, Warren Buffett. He didn't kiss the Trump wing. He's been growing his cash pile in the last year. He's currently sitting around$334 billion. Never doubt Warren Buffett, I guess. And then also a few losers, fast fashion brands, Shein, a Scott favorite, and Timu. Trump has closed the loophole that gave the tariff exemption on goods shipped from China valued under$800. I think it's called De Minimis or something like that. It no longer applies as of May 2nd. A lot of people didn't like this loophole.

30:27Without the loophole, prices and orders could jump as much as 30%. Amazon might also take a hit because they ran into the low-cost storefront powered by China, Chinese goods, cheap Chinese goods. One of the things that was really strange was Scott Besson talking about how Americans shouldn't buy cheap stuff anymore. Too bad. And that's too bad for you, Scott, because you can afford cashmere all the time. But that was another message they were sending out, is we should get off our cheap goods. So no longer shop at Walmart, the biggest employer in the U.S.? Yeah, right. Whatever. Like, none of your fucking business, dudes.

31:01So talk a little bit about tech, because also the last thing is tech sells a lot of services into Europe and cloud computing. Also, so do the McKinsey's of the world. And that's where we have a trade surplus in services, from what I understand. So talk a little bit about why it's impacting tech and, you know, sort of the, you see the real cracks in the Elons and the others. Bezos is probably apoplectic. Cook is apoplectic, I'm sure. And Warren Buffett looks, he's 105 years old, and he's once again the GOAT. It's just, okay, so let's look at Europe as the U.S. We export NVIDIA chips. NVIDIA trades at 24 times revenues.

31:46For every billion dollars, they sell in additional chips to other markets. institutional investors and employees of NVIDIA register a$24 billion gain. California gets enormous tax revenue from the incremental gains of shareholder value. When Mercedes exports Mercedes in the United States, they trade at 0.23. If they lose a billion dollars in business, they lose$23 million in market cap. $23 million versus$24 billion in lost market cap. We have taken, global trade has been great for the world. It's been the world more prosperous. And to be clear, we haven't done a good job of protecting the people who get hurt.

32:28Some people get hurt. There are certain industries, South Korea has done a good job of protecting nascent industries, strategic to them with tariffs. Tariffs can be used. These blanket tariffs, or let me put it this way, one of the greatest increases in global prosperity over the last 50 years, it would be hard pressed. You might think, well, it's the world order where democracies have bound together under the umbrella of U.S. prosperity and NATO and military might. We have kept the peace. Wars are very destructive to economics. But at the top of the list would probably be global trade. Find out what you can produce best at the lowest price and trade with someone who's really good at producing something else.

33:08And you both get better products at a lower price and you have a greater quality of life. So it's not only reduces the prosperity of the world, it massively, there's no nation that benefits more from global trade because our products are high margin, high value add. When Canada ships energy into the US, we then add value to it, we refine it, we turn it into higher grade petroleum, and we sell it at triple the price to other people. People, we are in the business of high value add, high margin, rule of law, IP driven, that creates so much revenue and shareholder value. What about this argument that we're going to bring domestic manufacturing back here?

33:55And everyone, even the crazy stations are like, that's going to take 10 years. And they're not going to do it. It'll never happen. It'll never happen. It'll never happen. And first off, we're not just a taco truck with masseuses. We're the second largest manufacturer in the world. But we manufacture AI chips. We manufacture really high value-add products that have decent margins. We have purposely outsourced low value-add, low margin, low shareholder value products. And American consumers, I'm sorry, American workers don't want to go back into factories. 98 % of businesses that sell into global trade are small and medium-sized businesses.

34:4240 million jobs are related to or depend on global trade. And people say, well, 40 million or 355, that's not that bad. Only 150 million people in the U.S. work. So the notion we're going to bring back, we don't want to bring back. I mean, what you need are great, great middle-class, well-paying jobs, vocational. You need more people trained to install energy-efficient HVAC heaters at 30 bucks an hour. We need that. But there is not a line to go work on a factory floor in Lansing, Michigan. This isn't what people do. Try and renovate a house and see how much people want to actually build a home that were born here.

35:25They don't. Who wants to do that? Immigrants. It's exactly right. So this notion that everyone's lining up to go work at a factory job in the Midwest on an assembly line? It's just, it's such a, it's like an 80s guy idea of the world. Like, seriously. And I get, you know, I do actually get the arguments about, you know, sort of hollowing out American manufacturing by doing cheaper goods abroad and going too far with free trade and not, you know, retraining people. There's great arguments to be made about trying to figure out new ways for people to have jobs. But this way, the idea, we're going to bring back factor.

36:06Every time Howard Lutton gets on the air, I'm like, are you living in a different century? Like, it's just it's been stuck in Trump's head for 40 years. And what's astonishing is the Republicans are like, let's listen to the president. Let's not. He knows. He's playing 40 chess. We just don't know. That's not what's happening. He's stuck in the 80s. He's stuck in some era that no longer exists. And wouldn't it be great if the women didn't vote and there was no such thing as me too and I could do whatever I felt like? This is a different era. And what kind of amazes me is that it hasn't gotten through to that the Republicans are still sticking with this.

36:51It's such a test of MAGA. I've never seen anything. This has got to be the ultimate cult test. Will you take the Kool-Aid? Will you actually drink the Kool-Aid kind of thing? We're so narcissistic, we refuse to acknowledge that the rest of the world is a pretty interesting case study in history. And the 50s and 60s, Latin America embraced protectionist policies. Their economy did not grow. They opened up, their economy boomed. the last time we had tariffs like this, they weren't even as big as this, was in 1930, the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act. Those tariffs weren't as big as these. And what was the impact there?

37:32It widened, it worsened a great impression. Instead of boosting the economy and creating jobs, by 1933, real U.S. GDP had dropped by a third. Do you know what would happen in the U.S. if GDP dropped by a third, and the unemployment rate, which is at 4%, hit 25%. I was really disappointed, really disappointed. I watched all the Sunday morning programs. Margaret Brennan did a good job. The rest of them clearly didn't take an economics class because they couldn't ask a basic question. Name a country. There are 159 countries. There are two centuries of economic, modern economic history. Name a country where this level of tariffs has worked.

38:11It hasn't. It hasn't. It hasn't. It backfires. It's the ultimate own goal. The fact that they're going, let's wait and see. Like, no, let's not wait and see what happens when we inject bleach into our veins. Let's not wait and see. We have to move on. But because, you know, one of the things that I want to talk about is this is a gift to China. This is China needed a way out of their economic doldrums. We've just handed them the key. Let me just ask you one question. This is a sincere question. If they can have a conspiracy that in the basement, which doesn't exist, of a pizza joint, Hillary Clinton is drinking the blood of children they're sacrificing, I can go semi-conspiracy theory.

38:50Okay, go ahead. Let's hear it. Putin and Xi have each put$10 billion into the Trump coin, or they've committed to it. You're going to be the wealthiest man in history. But you need to do the following things. You need to withdraw from Ukraine. You need to fragment the strongest U.S.-Western democracy alliances in history to give us license to do whatever the fuck we want. So he's the ultimate main-turing candidate is what you're saying. And we need you to thrust the biggest trade. China's all about money. We need you to thrust the biggest trading partners into arms. We need you to get Japan and South Korea to start talking to us again.

39:23If it was not Trump Vance, this is the question, if it was not Trump Vance, but it was Putin Xi, what would be any fucking different than what has happened over the last two months? Well, it seems too complicated. I just think he's stupid. We should have hired the smart. That's a solid plan B. We should have hired the smart woman of color. But that's my question. If Putin and Xi had been president and vice president, what would they have done differently? I don't know. I agree. I think he's just so stupid. I just stupidity takes the cake here. And he's stupid and he's addled and he's got to go.

40:02He's got to go. I don't know what else to say. Let's surrender Ukraine and side with our enemies. Let's pretend you won the Cold War, even though we won it. Except he has been talking about this for 40 years. It's been like a hair up his ass for 40 years. Like he has been talking about this. So I feel like he's now like, I'm going to do this finally and see what happens. I'm pushing this button and I'm seeing what's happening. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I'm going to ask Chachi BT. All right. Let's go on a quick break. We come back. Speaking of China, the TikTok deadline gets postponed yet again.

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42:48Scott, we're back. President Trump delayed the ban on TikTok for 75 days for a second time. How ridiculous. A steal for the sale was reportedly close until Trump made his tariffs announcement, causing China to pull out of the negotiations, obviously. Oracle, Blackstone, and Andreessen Horowitz, all friends of Donald Trump, were reportedly involved. Trump has previously suggested he could lessen tariffs on China in exchange for a deal. I'm sure China's just thrilled to hear that. I don't know why China would do anything. Like, maybe they will if they want to. I don't know why you would do anything.

43:21So let's do a very brief thing about this because I think it's just going to sit there in limbo and just bump along, right? I don't, there's no deal here. They're going to try to bring it under 20%. I think that's the amount, the ownership of China, for Chinese, the Chinese government and Chinese investors. Yeah, you go first here. What are your thoughts, Karen? I don't know what's going to happen here. It feels like a story from the 1980s too. I mean, I think it's, I think eventually it'll have some convoluted thing that's not going to make a difference or keep us safer in any way. I think they need to make the case of why it is dangerous.

43:57is I never, I sort of liked the law, but didn't like that. I didn't feel I made their case. And at the same time, I'm absolutely certain the Chinese are manipulating it. Like, I don't even feel like that. So I think it's eventually a dwindling company, right? Like over time, if it's not focusing on this product, I'm in this new zone, Scott, of like, the reason things fail is because products suck. Well, the 45 to 95 was the brand era, but digital unlock around product is a new bomb again. It sounds boring, but it's product. I'm like, if Tesla made great cars, people would still buy them even though he's a toad.

44:31And they don't advertise. Right. I really do think that. I'm thinking to myself, I use Amazon and I don't want to use it because I'm really irritated by Jeff Bezos. But it's a great product and it's really hard. Like, I think if it gets the ball off of - How do you think I feel using Starlink to call you on FaceTime? I know. I know. I think it's just really, I think the problems that this will suffer as a product because of all this mishigash. And so I don't feel kids talk. I mean, they're going to move on to the next thing. That's what I feel like. And eventually they'll come up with some convoluted way where Mark Andreessen gets even richer than he already is and more toxic.

45:06And it won't make any sense and it won't protect Americans better. And China will continue to dominate. I mean, just to me, all of this has been a gimme to China. Just one big gimme to a government that does not want us to dominate. So as it relates to TikTok, I just don't think we would ever let CBS, NBC, and ABC be owned by the Kremlin in the 60s. I think it's fucking insane to have TikTok. I think we're raising a generation of civic, military, and business leaders who hate America. 50 % of people our age feel good about America, 1 in 10 young people. And I might even be wrong, but just from a trade symmetry standpoint, there are no media companies in China, and we can't afford to have this.

45:51The average 14-year-old boy in America is spending 17 hours on a media platform controlled by the CCP. It's just not a good idea. So it should be banned. Now, the second thing, and this goes back to the notion that you can't outrun multiple contraction, which we're about to incur the mother of all multiple contraction, is remember when Trump hated TikTok? And then remember when President Biden had a bipartisan law passed and none of it fucking means anything anymore. Because if one of the largest donors of the Trump campaign, Jeffrey Yass, who also happens to be an investor in TikTok and a bunch of crypto bros and Silicon Valley bros who are also investors, he can do all this bullshit.

46:33I'm in, I'm out. I'm your girlfriend. I'm not your girlfriend. I want to break up. I don't want to break up. Why would anyone take us seriously? Why would, China is like, yeah, fine. China's not going to back down to the U.S. unless they can figure out a way, unless they have all sorts of assets, which is Latin for spies, within Oracle, and they feel like they can keep the asset in the U.S. as an espionage and propaganda tool and have their cake and eat it too. They're just going to play slowball because this guy will change his mind next week. Or maybe General Atlantic Partners or Sequoia Capital, who would have sex with their sisters for a nickel, will put pressure on Trump and off her.

47:17What do you want now? I knew you'd bring in White Lotus, but go ahead. Well, that's unfair. They'd have they'd fuck their mothers for a nickel. I think that's more accurate. Anyways, these folks, these folks now run the White House. And so this is, TikTok just sort of represents, one, a national security threat that we just don't take seriously because our kids like it and we don't understand it. I remember when you took me to the White House, I remember thinking, and they were like, oh, we're not on TikTok. I'm like, that's a bad idea. You don't realize what's going on. You don't see what's happening to our kids here.

47:53your kid can see a beheading and then a dance video and then something showing, you know, viewpoints on Hamas and Israel or viewpoints, a bunch of people like, I'm even part of it. I see my angriest videos get the most play on TikTok. They get dialed up and that's not just TikTok, it's everything else. But why on earth, why on earth would we allow missiles to be planted on an island, Cuba, 60 miles offshore, the U.S. coast, even if they claim they will never use them against us. Like, no, we're just not going to put up with that. And then again, it's the inconsistency that's going to take our prosperity now.

48:30Does it matter? Because we're giving them advantage in this tariff thing. Now we've given them an even bigger thing. Oh, biggest winner here. Winner. Biggest winner is China. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. China, China, China. And they were hands down. We're losing. They were really losing. Biggest winner out of all this, hands down. All of a sudden, Canada's like, Chinese are mining up all the real estate in Vancouver. This is what But every Chinese diplomat and businessman is working. I've done a lot of business in China. They're all working overtime, and they're going to European capitals.

49:02They're going everywhere and saying, they may say, you may not agree with us, but you know what? We're good partners. Lifeline for China. This has been such a gift to China. Anyway, that's our feelings. It's an unbelievable gift to Vice President Xi. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

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51:35Okay, Scott, we're going to do wins and fails. I think I shall go first. I think win. I really enjoy. I love a protest. I thought these hands-off protests were everywhere. Every city was full. I love seeing them in Turkey. I love like people turning out. I don't know if they work or not, but DC and New York, 100 ,000 attendees each. They were, Amanda went down. I did not. And like average people, it was not like the professional protesters that you might see. Themes were administration's attacks on social security, the layoffs, deportations, Elon Musk, of course. I love the signs. They make me laugh.

52:12If Ikea has better cabinets, which they really do. Wisconsin hates Elon so much it could be one of his kids. Abort unwanted presidencies. We're all the couch now. Trump, of course, spent the weekend golfing. I mean, just the visuals couldn't be any better. And I kind of just like it. It gets people in bold. And I don't know if protests matter, but this one had a real momentum feel, which is nice. And we'll see if that matters or not. But for the fail, so obvious, 60 Minutes, which is, you know, people talk about the decline of traditional media. People who do real reporting, really, we owe them a debt of gratitude.

52:52They did a story on Sunday on Venezuelan migrants who got deported to prison in El Salvador. And their reporting found no criminal records for 75 % of those migrants. These people were taken off the street, many of them legally here, and put in a prison. It's literally like a, you know, a movie. It's a movie. It feels like a movie. This is so cruel. And the people who are doing this to people and putting people in prison without any criminal record and sending them to another country they're not even from, I hope they go to jail themselves at some point and pretending they can't take them back.

53:29This is grotesque in every single way. Grotesque. So it's like such an embarrassment. And people aren't paying attention because of all this stuff about the tariffs and the stock market. But boy, what a human rights disaster for us, our country. We have no ability to say we're a good people if we're doing things like that. I like both of those. I'm an ageist. I think all of these old people need to go away. I think that Biden's inability and the people around him, their lack of backbone to acknowledge that biology always wins is if we've decided the prefrontal cortex of a 34 year old is too immature to have that person have access to nuclear weapons.

54:15And for God's sakes, an 80-year-old shouldn't have their finger on the button. And my win is the market is responding. A Democrat, I think it's Saikat Chakrabarty, who was the comms director for 35-year-old former boss, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, has decided that he's going to challenge Rep. Nancy Pelosi, or he did challenge her. for Chakrabarty, 39-year-old software engineer turned political operative. I like seeing young people rising to the challenge. In Los Angeles, 37-year-old Jake Rakoff announced last week that he was running for the seat of his former boss, Rep. Brad Sherman, who's 70.

55:00Representative Sherman, you served your country well. Now collect a gold watch and go play fucking golf. You're too old. In Michigan, State Senator Mallory McMorrow, 38, launched a bid for a state's open U.S. Senate seat by talking about her experiences as a millennial. I mean, there are young people stepping up here. I saw her at MSNBC. I was on Jen Psaki's show on Sunday, and I ran into Mallory. She's really impressive. Very impressive. And in Illinois, Kat Abuguzala. That's the problem with all these young names. Oh, no. Names are too fucking complicated. Change your name to, like, Smith. And we're out.

55:34Change your name to Smith. You'll get more votes. You'll get more votes. Anyways, Kat, I like that. That's what I'm going to call her, Rep Kat. Rep Jan Schakowsky. Oh, my God. Really? You're not doing this. But go ahead. Oh, wait. She's running for the seat of Rep Jan Schakowsky, who is 80. Go home. She's the influencer. Yeah. Go home, Rep Jan Schakowsky. 80. Good congressperson, let me say, for many years. Go home. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so. I'm out of here. in 10 years. Senator Schumer, you're 74. Someone this weekend offered me 10 million bucks if I put in 10 million to run for president. I'm like, I'm too fucking old.

56:17You need someone who's going to work 19. Bill Clinton slept five hours a night for eight years. All right. Okay. So fail. Old people. Old people. Okay. We need my win is young people stepping up to the plate. If you're, And I always like to put an accent behind a word. If you're a young, moderate running against someone who just is only there because they're a fucking incumbent, email me, scottatstern.nyu, and I'm in. I'm in for the maximum campaign contribution. I'm voting for youth and new ideas and vigor. Okay, my fail is the following. On Thursday and Friday, I lost, I don't know, somewhere between six and eight million dollars.

57:06I got some of it back because I shorted AI stocks, so I probably lost four to five million bucks. That's the bad news. The good news is I am so blessed and privileged because of the underpinnings of an America that offers prosperity, offers opportunities to the children of single immigrant mothers who lived and died a secretary, rule of law, great entrepreneurial culture. It really doesn't matter. I'm fine. I know it matters to a lot of people. I'm knowing flexing and bragging about my wealth, but it does have a point. My disappointment is that, okay, we now live in a nation where we've decided to side with autocrats, not democracies pushing back on autocrats.

57:50We now live in a nation where it's possible that you can go to jail if you don't narc on someone who is planning to get an abortion. We live in a country where it is feasible where a 14-year-old who is raped has to carry her child to term. We live in a country where a woman could die of sepsis in an emergency room parking lot because she's bleeding out, because the medical professionals are too scared to perform a necessary abortion. We live in a country where we now have a president who's opened a Swiss banking account where anyone can put money in in exchange for political favors and not have to disclose it.

58:33That is the country we are in. And here's what money has done. You left out law firms, but go ahead. And we can intimidate law firms into agreeing, into agreeing not to represent the president's adversaries. I mean, that's the whole point of it. That's the whole fucking point of our legal system. Paul Weiss, go fuck yourself. Jesus Christ. Don't call yourself. You should never call yourself an American law firm. Your headquarters is fucking Moscow meets Mar-a-Lago. What cowards. And by the way, guest speaker, Bob Iger. That's the country we're in. and where do people turn up? Where do people decide that's it?

59:17We have to go to Mar-a-Lago is when the markets are down 10%. Well, guess what? That's about number 30 on my fucking list of what terrible things have happened to this country. So look, I'll take it. I'll take it. But when it's all about the markets and not about people's rights, not about humanity, not about coarseness and cruelty, not about the whole point of a constitution, the whole point of a democracy is you protect the lower 50. You and I are going to be just fine. And I understand your concerns about your family. I think those are real concerns. The majority of people in the top 1%, we're going to be fine.

1:00:00The whole point of a constitution and a democracy is you have to protect the bottom 50. And what is all of a sudden the red line? The NASDAQ is down. That's what has people riled. That's the red line. That's the red line. Right? That's the red line. Yep. Yep. All right. We're okay with murderous autocrats and 14-year-olds carrying babies to term. But if the NASDAQ goes down, that's too much. You know what? On Thursday and Friday, and the market's going down, I could give a flying fuck. I'll go, I'll take the markets down another 10%. Start protecting the lower 50. I love this, Scott. The lesbian from San Francisco, Scott Galloway, I give you people.

1:00:43All right, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. I love your verb, Scott. Elsewhere in the Scott and Kara universe, this week I spoke with Jeff Lawson, owner of The Onion. Oh, what a great guy this guy is in terms of what he's done there. Let's listen to a clip. We have worked to create an environment where people will come to defend us. Right. In a way that they don't necessarily come to defend the New York Times. Because it's believed the New York Times can defend itself.

1:01:15It's a big organization. The Little Old Onion, when you go after satire, and it shows just how small, I'm going to make a penis joke, just how small your penis is when you come after satire. I think people rise up and they say, that's enough. Like, we're going to defend this little thing called The Onion because satire is highly protected speech. And The Onion is a beloved brand and a beloved publication. Anyway, really interesting guy. He's, you know, he's trying to keep it. I love The Onion. I think they do a great job. And he sort of saved it in a lot of ways. Anyway, his name is Jeff Lawson.

1:01:46It was great. And he loves Scott Galloway. So he had to make one penis joke. I love The Onion. Yeah, I know. He's like. The hard part, though, is occasionally I read The Onion. I'm like, is that actual news today? I know. Exactly. He's doing all kinds of cool things. And he really did save it in a lot of ways. Just a small little contribution. He's a billionaire, too. He was at Twilio. He had a big activist investor thing, sort of toss him out. But really interesting guy. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday.

1:02:20Scott, read us out and be very indignant. I like it. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin and Kate Gallagher. Ernie Irtaud entered into this episode. Julian Villard edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Severo, and Dan Shulon. Mishak Karwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

1:02:52Don't you often see someone and think, what's their story? What's their life? How did he end up on a park bench without shoes, feeding pigeons and speaking to himself? University of Chicago. I was on a college tour, Kara.