Maui Fires, the Hollywood Strikes, and Co-Host George Hahn

24:29I said, I'm not going to. Amanda literally in the most quiet way goes, well, you do tend to wear the same three things. And I was like, which I've had since seventh grade. Like, I'm a very good user of the same clothes. You would maybe be surprised to hear this, but I am a big advocate of that. People seem to think that I have a huge wardrobe. I do not. Yeah. I have a very edited wardrobe. My life is very edited. I just choose very carefully. Yeah. I just bought a shirt the other day for the first time because I had to be on Stephanie Rule's show. And I was like, I haven't bought a shirt in years.

24:59You looked good. I saw it when you were plugging your book. Everlane. Everlane. Just a simple shirt. whatever. And then I literally had no pants either. So that's my problem all the time. I had to cover the pants up. No pants on the Stephanie Ruhl show. That's how I'm helping climate change. Anyway, our hearts go out to the people of Maui and across Hawaii. It is one of the most, if you've never been there, it is literally one of the most beautiful places on earth. But this is something that certainly could have been handled better by the governments. And also, they have to be thinking if they grow again, about fire, anti, there's all kinds of things you can do to fireproof.

25:36They ran out of water in the fire hydrants. They did. But there's also materials. You're going to see growth in Hawaii, one would hope, back. But that'll be done in a way that'll protect them from these inevitable natural disasters and also man-made disasters. All right, George, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, writers and producers are back at the negotiating table. How long will it be before your favorite shows start up again, and we'll speak with a friend of Pivot, Craig DeForest, a co-creator of Republicans.

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28:28George, we're back. The Writers Guild and producers went back to the table last week. The WGA is considering the studio's counterproposal. The writers' strike has gone on for more than 100 days. The WGA called it a milestone of shame. FanDefair asked the industry sources of their guesses of when it will end. Estimates range from October to next year, with writers, October 14th is a day I've been hearing, or January 15th. With writers and actors on strike, nearly all Hollywood production is shut down, although independent studios like A24 have received exemptions if they agree to SAG-AFTRA's interim terms.

29:00What do your friends say about what's happening? We want a new contract. I'm a SAG member. But Scott wrote a very interesting piece a few weeks ago that we voiced on the podcast that made the rounds over in the Hollywood. Yes, I know. I heard from a lot of people saying, your friend Scott, several of my ideas are in there, but go ahead. Move along. Go ahead. Of course there are. Yeah. Okay. But basically saying that the actors and the writers and the studios are mad at the wrong entity instead of being, we should be with the studios. And we, you know, the enemy here is big tech. Oh, I wonder if you said that.

29:42Really? Where did that come from? I don't know. There she is. And Humility 101 course begins. Yes, I agree. It is big time. But I think they're all not really helping. This interim thing has a lot of people. Let me read this. The fake interim agreement shit allows movie actors to now work with impunity. These are one-off projects and producers can comfortably sign given the above. But as far as TV producers aren't jumping in because the contract for TV is much more complicated. performers here are steady earners who support families and contribute steady, robust incomes to our economy annually.

30:15And the majority of these folks could never, to be blunt, make rapid pivots to films. So they're actually striking, losing everything. While Paul Rudd and Anne Hathaway work, as I said, at public, if these interim agreements truly are the way to move forward for us collectively, it's morally untenable that stars who have no need of income would work them while their fellow artists lose their health insurance and homes. I think that's 100 % true. I just, this is, you know, these exemptions, what you're sort of telling the studios are not putting, you know, people in. And another person who's sort of on the other side, but also is a producer was like, the entire business is morally corrupt on both sides.

30:54These companies are flying. They have the strike activities, performances. Meanwhile, the industry is shrinking and the average workers are getting permanently hurt on all sides. Writers, actors, junior executives, agents and assistants. Meanwhile, Fat Cat execs, actors and writers, the top ones are feeling no pain. It's really an interesting situation. You don't know who you're actually fighting against at this point. I don't know. How is your mood? You're in SAG, but not in WGA, right? What side do you think? Obviously, you're going to take the side of SAG, but how do you think SAG is handling it?

31:26Being normally critical of your own side. And then tell me about the other side. I reread Scott's thing last night and the idea, I think it may be to our benefit to launch a suit against AI tech companies. Do you know what I mean? Barry Diller is already preemptively doing it. Yeah. Although the New York Times is not joining him as he thought they would. But I mean, there's a little bit of shooting ourselves in the foot here. I don't know. I just signed with a commercial agent when the strike hit. And they asked, or no, before the actors joined the strike. And they asked me, like, are you willing to work off card?

32:09Meaning, like, would you do non-union commercials? Because a lot of commercials are non-union these days. And at the time, I said, you know. And then the actors came in and struck, right? And then my agent sent me two auditions for two commercials. It's, you know, money I can use. And I said, you know what? I've had a change of heart and I'm watching what's happening. This does not feel right. So, no, I'm not going to go off card. And why was that? Ethically, morally, I don't feel right. It doesn't sit well in my stomach to watch friends on the picket line. And then I'm going to go do a commercial, a non-union commercial as a member of SAG.

32:51But what about these independent studios that cut deals with the unions? I mean, exemptions. What does that mean? I have mixed feelings about it. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it's a bad thing. I have mixed feelings about it. It's like they're kind of setting an example like, oh, look at us. We're still working because we're giving the actors what they're asking for. I don't totally have a huge problem with that because on face value, and I might think differently if I thought about it more, on face value, it's like they're setting an example. By their agreeing. But those agreements are not going to remain in effect once a contract is in place.

33:23But working with more people gives the union more power, presumably, if they could make a thing. But this person I was referencing is right. It's only the stars that get this. People can't make quick pivots to other businesses, whether it's soaps or TV versus a film, which is different because most of the independent studios make films, not TV, right? And those are very different contracts and longer term, et cetera. And it's just one of these things where you wonder where the economics are going to come down. And you're absolutely right. The tech companies can wait this stuff out. Netflix can wait this stuff out, right?

33:58They've all been waiting for ways to cut costs and they just got one. Well, Netflix is still making, you know, they still have a cornucopia thing. I just watched, I was starting to watch Painkiller on that, which was terrific. I just watched Gal Gadot in her show, The Heart of Stone, which I loved. I love all those action movies. I love spy stuff, yeah. Spy stuff. And I was like, there's 20 things I want to watch. The question is, when do audiences start to feel the effects? Not until they run out of new content. There's a library of stuff that's in post-production. Right. Like, why wouldn't you, if you were Netflix, hold out?

34:33I just, I don't know why. But at the same time, you know what? As someone who, maybe this is an opportunity for me, like, to catch up on things I never got to watch. I know that. Like, The Wire. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I never watched The Wire. Yeah, but that's the problem. Like what are these, what are actors and writers going to do? Because also over at Disney, Disney's streaming division lost$512 million last quarter and over$11 billion since 2019. In October, premium Disney Plus subscriptions bump up three bucks from$11 to$14 a month. Hulu will go from$15 to$18. Bob Iger says this to encourage users to subscribe to the cheaper ad tiers where the company actually makes more money.

35:14There's obviously rumors of Apple possibly buying Disney, which Iger sort of put off a little bit because of regulatory issues. But, you know, they are losing money. He was saying, be realistic. This is the, you know, this screaming thing, except for Netflix, is very problematic for these, some of these companies, not for tech companies, not for Netflix, but for these companies, the Disneys and the others of the other regular traditional studios. There's all sorts of cross currents here. It's also might have an effect of kind of, you know, the cream will rise at the end of this. I think you're heavier hitters.

35:48I think Netflix, Disney +, Apple TV, and HBO, whatever we're calling it. At some point, it will be economically viable. They're all going to be okay. The smaller ones, not so much. Not so much, yeah. Like even Hulu. It's so funny because someone was pointing out they're moving back to an advertising base by, you know what I mean? We're back to regular TV, which was because if you want to pay less and move to their cheaper ad tiers. Now, I do not want to move to their ad tiers. And, you know, it's just an interesting time for these companies. I just think they better settle this. I just don't know how they're going to settle this.

36:22Because when I listen to both sides, I'm sort of like. They're going to have to earn their seven-figure bonuses here. I guess. I guess. Prove their worth. I guess, but I feel like. You know, these are the geniuses in the C-suite who are earning all this money. They are so far apart. Show me your fucking worth it. I get it. And come up with a solution. They are so far apart. I just feel, smart people I know who are trying to settle it feel frustrated. I'm just going to, I'm like Catwin with a whip in the shopping, in the store. You're overpaid. No, that's not going to work. It's not going to work.

36:51It's not going to work here. I don't think consumers are particularly buying that. It's like we're, I understand that, but I don't think it's helping pointing that out. I just don't, if it helped, I would say go for it. You know, and I think a lot of these businesses are going to have a real problem going forward. Now, Disney just, I don't think it will sell to Apple, though that would be a big purchase. I think regulatory from a regular point of view would never happen. You know, I just won't. It just won't. It's a swipe of the credit card for Apple. But they did do. Oh, we just bought another company.

37:21We just bought another company. It would be a big part. It would be the right purchase for Apple, actually. But Disney just made a deal with casino company Penn Entertainment, which many look down upon. They're creating an online gambling site called ESPN Bet. They're leaning into this thing, which you never thought they would. This was sort of a surprise to me, but I get it. He needs to make money. Iger needs to make money. It was formerly the owner of Barstool Sports and lost a buttload of money on that. And it sold the brand back to David Portnum for a dollar. I mean, it was$800 million. It just incinerated.

37:53But we have gambling in Walt Disney Corporation now. It's very strange bedfellows. I don't know. I don't know. What is your date? What is your guest date? For the end of the strike? Yeah, just make it up. Oh, God. I'm not good at predicting. But I would say maybe November. And if not that, we're going to go through the holidays. All right. Right. Well, that's not good news. But hopefully they'll come to their senses and actually have real talks about the real situation, which, as Professor Galloway wrote from someone else. From No Mercy, No Malice, courtesy of Dame Kara Swisher. Who has been unpaid.

38:25I'm going to start striking in a second. Okay, let's get to our friend of Pivot.

38:35Craig DeForest is a co-creator of Republicans, a parody Instagram account showcasing AI-generated photos of Republicans in drag, including Ted Cruz as Cancun Barbie, Mike Pence as Miss Womb Warden Supreme, and Marco Rubio as Sister Rosie Rubio of the Sassy Sacrament, and so many more. And it's so enjoyable to watch. It's been a real delight. Welcome, Craig, and thank you for your beautiful work. Thank you so much for having me. So talk about how the project got started, because when I saw it, I was like, this is just what I love social media for. So tell us how it happened. It really got started actually in Palm Springs of all places.

39:14My husband and I live in an Airstream where remote workers and travel around for part of the year. So we were in Palm Springs, actually took an architecture bike tour. That's the best tour. Thank you. Oh, such a good show. We heard it on your show, and then we took one. He's so great, isn't he? So thank you. Yeah. And we were watching the news, really, hearing what was going on. I think at that time, it was really things in Tennessee happening around anti-drag legislation. Right. And I thought to myself and said to Steve and my husband, I would love to see these GOPers in drag. And he immediately said, Republicans.

39:53and the idea, he's a writer and his brain just works like that. And the idea came out of that. And I went online and looked, is anyone doing this? And couldn't find it anywhere. I was super surprised. Steven suggested I use tools like Midjourney and ChatGPT and start looking into those. So I taught myself and the first post within 24 hours, really, from the idea to the post is when this all happened. And, you know, two weeks later, it was like 200K. So you didn't have any particular background in this technology. You've used. Zero background. I'm like international education, community engagement, higher ed, like tech, but like, no, I don't have any idea.

40:38I taught myself. Right. And so you, you know, as you said, we're in a tough time for the LGBTQ plus community, including with the introduction of these drag bands, as you noted, you called your work fantasy, but how do you use it as activism? Do you consider yourself an activist or how do you see it? I mean, it's obviously caused great delight and consternation, which is how you want it to work out. But what is it doing from that? I do. I love that question because I have started to see myself as an activist and all of the people who are following along are taking action. So many of them already are activists.

41:11So in three days, we raised$21 ,000 for the ACLU of Montana Foundation. And that was a shock. I didn't know that we could do that. That happened in like the first month or two. We're trying to call out the hypocrisy of the GOP. And I know that there are actually, I'm kind of going off on a tangent here, but like there are people in my family who are Republicans who love this stuff, who think it's hilarious because they understand how ludicrous this all is. And it's just this huge distraction. So, yeah, I want to keep calling them out. I think AI, there is a place for it in activism. George? First of all, so nice to meet you, Craig.

41:58And now to put a name and a face with this whole thing, because I'm loving every single post. So I'm curious to know, do you run it through a thing? Like, do you describe, I want to see Lindsey Graham. And do you talk about, like, what colors you'd like to see, the setting, and how many, like, iterations before you get the right one and make sure they all have five fingers. And yeah, like, what does it take? Yeah. What does it take to turn her into a drag queen? Yeah. Yes. And thanks for sharing, Jordi. You shared our page early on, which certainly helped us grow and get the word out. So I appreciate it.

42:31It's so good. I go on to MidJourney and I put in all of what you said. So it's unique, original prompts and I'm not inputting images. I'm saying, this is the person I would like to see. This is how they look. This is the color scheme. Maybe it's like 1990s inspired or Barbie inspired and maybe they're feeling a certain way, like the Rudy Garland image that really set things off. Like for that. Who has, by the way, appeared in drag in real life. I know. Some of these folks have, and that's the craziness, right? Right, right. Yeah. And one of the words in that is mental breakdown for the description and the prompt.

43:19Why? Why? Well, because Rudy Giuliani was like, he always looks like he's having a breakdown. He is a mental breakdown. Okay. And how do you decide which one to roll out next? Obviously, Lindsey Graham's an obvious one. Rudy Garland is an obvious one. Ted Cruz is a very attractive drag queen, I would have to say. Have you gotten any pushback from anybody? Not major, but it's funny you mentioned Ted Cruz, aka Crusella DeVille, because when we did the Ted Cruz post, he posted about it on Twitter. I don't know if you saw this. So the Houston Chronicle ran a piece on it. They did like an op-ed sort of thing and talked about the post.

44:05Ted Cruz, I guess, saw it. And that day he posted the images of himself as a drag queen and commented on it. He got roasted so hard. What did he say? What did he say? I believe green is my color and not whatever you use. If he wanted to have fun with it, yeah, he could have. No, he said, I guess it's a slow day at the Chronicle. And then everyone just roasted him in the comments. It was amazing. Has anyone secretly called you and said, I look good. Thank you for that. No. No one has done that. I would love that. I don't think any of these bitches have a sense of humor about themselves. None. Probably not.

44:41I don't know. I'm trying to think. Not on the right. That's not on the right. That's the problem. I think secretly Rudy loves it. So you've said you never do a portrait of former President Donald Trump. Why is that? Is it unattractive? What? He gets so much attention. Immediately when we started doing this and people were just, we want to see Trump. We want to see Trump. When are you doing Trump? Our immediate reaction within our conversations with each other was just like, this is not happening. We're done. We're done with Trump. And I know the world isn't done with him. He's still a huge figure and he could be our president again.

45:17And I just think he gets enough attention. He wears enough makeup. He wears more makeup than a drag queen. So he's already got it going on, I think. Right. The hair. certainly are good. So you're not going to make that, even though it'd probably be the most popular, presumably. No, but I like this choice. All right. Okay. I respect this, that you're not going to do him. And by the way, that would really probably make my eyes burn. Okay. Now, George and I are going to open a special image you've made just for Pidgett. Let me link to the image here. I'm so excited. Oh, wow. Oh my God. That's fantastic.

45:52All right. Oh, good heavens. George, read the caption, George. wearing my glasses, by the way, but go ahead. Wait a minute. George, why don't you describe the photo? Explain it for people. It is Scott on a tarmac with a PJ, a plane in the background. Yeah. And he is wearing from the waist up. From the waist up, it's like, it looks like he's wearing a gold lame catsuit. Or maybe this is sequins, but it's gold catsuit, sunglasses like aviators, but like with gold rims and a skirt. There's a skirt feature over this gold lame catsuit and gloves, black gloves. And there's a little pink hair coming out from behind and cascading down the shoulders.

46:43Read the caption.

46:48Please welcome to the literal runway, the lady of London and daddy of Ibiza, Anita Scott Free August. She's wearing heels higher than your ambitions as she boards her PJ to get the hell out of Wokistan. They call her the dog, but you won't see this diva chasing tails or bending over unless it's to pick up a fallen eyelash or her capital gains. And the only thing thicker than her contour, that portfolio, Henny. Now, come on, that's good. You were really good. You got that. Check out all of our socials today to see that image of Scott for yourself on Instagram and threads. Here's two thoughts. He's going to love this.

47:37He's going to love this. One. And two, you know, he stopped wearing drag because he was in a lot of drag. And he got pushback from a father of a trans person who thought it would, even though he was doing it with, you know, a level of, I would say, not hatred. You know, that a trans dad was, I talked to him about it. I said, oh, the way you're doing it feels a little bit taking advantage of it. Tell us why you picked these colors. Oh, it's so good. I think it was more about the concept of being on a runway and with the private jet than like picking particular colors. I don't think I had anything going for that.

48:14It was more about the scene and then it kind of spit out different options and I let the flow happen. So it's beautiful. It's really quite beautiful. I'm glad you love it. Anita, Scott Free August, I like. What would you turn me and George into? You know, I'm thinking now, Carrie, just because it was on my mind, is the bike tour. So I might put you in Palm Springs. Yeah. You might be standing next to a bike in a palm tree. So I might have like a palm tree theme, like you're on vacation getting some sun. Any names come to mind? Mia Kia. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my key, by the way, update. The key is fine.

48:55It's being fixed. We'll go ahead. Move along. Oh, good, good. Got crushed by a tree. What about George? George is, George, there's so many directions you can go. Well, George is going to be in a park. You know, he has his good morning videos that he does on Instagram. So I think he's going to be in a New York park setting. I'm feeling like a navy blue sort of feel like deep, you know, colors going on. And it's got to be a really, really big wig, like cascading over the top. Oh, a cascading wig. Very nice. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, none of this was possible like Kara and George, nine months ago or whatever, when we first started this, we were like, we couldn't have done this six months ago.

49:40This is a whole new world that this opened up. Right. With all of the sort of contempt prior to investigation with regards to AI, you have sort of shown where it can create a job, as it were, because you guys have created a little job for yourselves. Not little, it's big, and it's fantastic. You've got merch and you've got things like that. Is this going in a real monetizable direction for you? Well, great question. I mean, if Scott was here, I might ask him, Scott, like, how do I monetize this? But no, I mean, we're not making money right now. And the main goal is to, I would say more than that, is find ways to support causes and candidates.

50:23And being a sustainable thing is important and it's secondary. But right now, this is so new. And I want it to be a place where people can come to learn, get motivated, stay engaged. Like, I was so apathetic for a while because of just the political scene. When I started this, it jump-started something in me and reignited something. And my guess is that it's done that for some people, too, who are following the page. What I'd like to be able to do is support candidates maybe on more of a local level. There are these national figures that are corrupt and doing all kinds of awful things, but we know a lot of change happens at the local level too.

51:05So what can we do for them? How can we raise funds for organizations like the ACLU? So in terms of money, that's what I'm thinking right now. Yeah, I agree. I think one of the things is it's got sense of humor about it that I think is much more effective than just being angry or anything else is that you can feel your anger, but it's with whimsy. I think what's attracting people to this beside the humor is a big piece, but it's this intersection of all these things that are at the tip of our tongues and top of our minds right now. It's art, it's politics, it's drag, LGBTQ issues, it's artificial intelligence, and it's at the forefront of law.

51:46Like we're, We're out here sort of in a gray area, which we're aware of. But I think that's what drew a lot of people to it. It's fascinating. Anyway, we love it. Thank you, Craig. And you can and must follow. You can't listen to us anymore if you don't. Follow Republicans at Republicans on Instagram. But you can find it lots of places. But start there. And threads and threads. It's everywhere. And it's really fun. And it will make you laugh and maybe think really hard about these terrible men who are doing terrible things to people who do not deserve it. Anyway, thank you so much, Craig, and we think you're wonderful.

52:20Thank you. Appreciate it. Great to be here with you both. Thank you. All right, George, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

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54:30Okay, George, let's hear some wins and fails. I'm going to start. The fail is these dozens of news organizations have written a letter condemning a police raid on a Kansas newspaper. The raid, believed to be prompted by a story published by a local business owner, included seizure of computers, cell phones, and documents. They actually never published the story regarding the story. Police claim they're investigating identity theft and unlawful acts concerning computers. It's a ridiculous overreach by government on some things. And it's so confusing, but it's just, it's a repulsive event. I can't believe it happened in this manner and it's tragic in lots of ways, but also I hope that all news organizations support this small newspaper in Kansas.

55:15For my win, as I said, Gal Gadot, Heart of Stone, she's a hottie. She's good. Love her when she's wielding a gun. She's actually really good. I know they've gotten mixed reviews, but I gotta tell you, it's like that other movie with Charlize Theron, a similar thing where she was a badass. I'm blanking on the name of that. The Guardians. The Guardians. Yeah, whatever. I love that too. Lady ass kicking is my theme for 2023. Whether it's Barbie or Gal Gadot is my new, or Taylor Swift. Lady ass kicking is my favorite thing. Beyonce, everybody. Anyway, that's my win. Your win and fail? I'll start with my fail.

55:53My fail, too many high profile men, men of influence, men with a responsibility in an apparent race to out asshole each other, sending a message to their considerable audience of young men in particular, whether we're talking about Donald Trump, aka Schittler, Elon Musk, Sam Bankman-Fried, Ron DeSantis. What the fuck? Yes, they're not good examples of men. Right. And I put a lot, not all of it, but I put a lot on Donald Trump who sent the evolution of men back about 70 years and made it not just acceptable to be an asshole, but desirable to many. This is bad. You know, these are guys with power and influence and sway.

56:37And other guys who are sort of unsure of themselves or trying to figure it out and how to go about life and how to be a man look at this and go, oh, that's the way. This is bad. This is bad behavior. And we're going in a real bad direction. So that's a fail. As a mother of three sons, I just, and a daughter do, I just find it. I have not grown kids this way, men this way. It's a really bad, it's, let me just say many men do disdain this. That's the only thing I would say. I agree. You know, these are isolated, isolated but notable examples. Yeah. My win, also on Netflix, Painkiller. Broderick is really good.

57:16Broderick is wonderful. And Peter Berg, who directed all six episodes, Peter Berg is an actor. I remember him from that great movie with Linda Fiorentino, The Last Seduction with Bill Pullman. And what he managed to do with Painkiller, because a lot of people are going to try to compare it to Dope Sick. Dope Sick, which is also fantastic. Right. It's about the same thing, basically. However, what Peter Berg manages to do with this is take a very deadly serious, tragic, agonizing situation and manages to infuse it with some very dark comedy. Yeah. I think one person who saw it loved it. One person said it was too much on a very serious topic and preferred Dope Sick, which was so depressing.

58:05Unappropriately so. I think Peter Berg and the cast managed to strike this very unique balance. And I loved it. Well, I think all of these things make you want to find a Sackler and, you know, cage match them, so to speak. That's a cage match I'd like to watch. Yes, I would too. But actually, we don't believe in violence. We do not contone violence. Although we would like to slap a Sackler after seeing any of these things. Those are good ones, George. Those are really great ones. Painkiller and Heart of Stone. And again, Netflix, both of them. Both Netflix. Both Netflix. George, as always, I really appreciate you as a person and as a guest host, and you are always welcome on all our shows.

58:42And you're a delight as a person, I just want to say. You're an inspiration for many of your friends, just so you know. Cara, you just made my day. Did I make your day? You're a wonderful man. You have such a joie de vivre and a way you go through life. And you take many, even when things are lemons, you make them, you know, gay lemonade. I make country time. You make country time. Oh, my God. Remember country time? I sure do. Oh, my God. So bad. So bad. That's why literally when I call over one day, they'll be like, oh, it was the country time and lucky charms. That's what happened. Yeah. Yeah.

59:17Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm here to report kids still love sugar. Anyway, my son, Saul, walks around and goes, raisins, raisins. That's my boy. That's my boy. My birthday twin. He got him a haircut. We got him a haircut. No, he had such beautiful, long, beautiful locks, but he looks, he now is like such a boy. Was this his first haircut? Yes, it was delightful. That's a big step. He was fine. I still remember mine. I scream afterwards. Yeah, do you? Mr. Flanagan. Mr. Flanagan. He's an old friend of our family. Oh, and he cut your hair? Yep. Yeah, and? It's the same haircut to this day. Basically. Yeah, this is my last haircut of children I have.

59:55This is my last first haircut, if that makes sense. Yeah. This is four of them now. And the only one that's been really bad was Louis Swisher, who was so bad that Snippety Crickets barred us for several years. Anyway, sorry, Snippety. I still feel bad 20 years later. Anyway, I'll read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Neyman, Travis Larchuk, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Make sure you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week with another breakdown of all things tech and business.

1:00:31We have a shout out to our lovely lady of London and daddy of Ibiza, Anita Scott Free August. We'll see you in Nantucket this week. Thank you, George. Thank you.

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