Newsom's Senate Pick, SCOTUS Takes on Social Media, and Guest New York Times Pitchbot

22:58So states can't make a law. You know, they do when you go to restaurants, I guess. I don't, I'm not a legal person, but I think it, they, they have to hold for the companies. Just like they did in the last term. There was the last term the companies won a lot of this stuff around terrorism, if you remember. They're not going to be heard till next year. And by the time the court rules, we could be well into the election season. Both laws are currently blocked from going into effect until there's a ruling. I'm sure there's a chilling effect on some of these companies. I feel this is a slam dunk for the companies, but maybe I'm wrong.

23:35I agree. What are we engaging in censorship because we don't bring on every viewpoint. I just don't, these companies have the right to, if someone is trying to radicalize young men on YouTube, they have the right to take that content down. And the question is whether or not, the First Amendment issue is whether or not the government has the right to influence what they're doing. Again, I think it all comes back to better laws that put these media companies on level ground as other media companies. Yeah. I don't know why you get equal access. That's the part I don't get. I mean, there are laws around television, but that's a government.

24:15Well, I guess the Internet's a government. But I don't know. Why would you get equal access to private things? I just, I don't know. When I was locked out of Twitter, I just said, I went on threads and I said, I think that's the right. Now, granted, it might be hypocritical to be screaming free speech and to, you know, have. And by the way, I now think I wasn't – I don't think it was anything that Machiavellian, but I think it was just incompetence. Yes. But that's their right. They don't – I don't have a birthright or a natural constitutional right to be accepted on a platform. I don't – anyway.

24:55I wonder what Elon Musk – because he's all these – I mean, that whole genre of people, they're like free speech, free speech, even though they break it all the time, how they're going to win. And I guess they will be for doing whatever the hell they want, right? Presumably. Yeah, they're going to want the most latitude as possible because, I mean, they did kick Kanye off. There's just certain things he can't say. And they make a reasoned assessment over what will move the stock price up or the value of our company up. And as we have seen, essentially, the companies that have the strongest moderation, there's a direct correlation between moderation and shareholder growth.

25:36If you want the Wild West, go to 4chan or 8chan and just see how much you like total free speech. People don't, the notion of free speech or my understanding of the First Amendment is that government shall pass no law that inhibits a company in terms of the content. So pass no law that inhibits speech. So one side of the argument makes sense, but companies can do what they, Companies can do what they want with the exception of slander and defamation. If they purposely distribute and highlight information they know to be wrong that creates economic or physical harm to somebody or some company, they are liable, except if you're big tech.

26:19Yeah. I think the other case where the government's speaking to social media, there's another case around this, is more problematic. You know, the government communicating danger or terrorism things. I think there might be a real chilling effect on that. I heard from a lot of academics this week, you know, Yoel being one of them in this interview I did with him is the chilling effect of these companies suing, being sued because of decision, but because of misinformation research for one. And secondly, the chilling effect on companies of these cases, one of which is going to eventually rise to the Supreme Court, I think, which is about whether these companies and government can talk it all, right?

26:59If they can have, like government can have any just normal discussions around safety with these companies. And that's, you know, this is going to go on for a while. This is a big hobby horse of the right, for sure. We'll see. It'll be interesting to see. This is, I can't imagine this. Given last year's rulings, I think they'll rule with the companies. I don't know where they wouldn't do it. Well, we'll see. These are really important. Just remember, the Supreme Court matters a great deal in where this is all going. We talk a big game, But unless Congress steps in and actually does their job, which doesn't seem like they're either pulling alarms or fighting their leaders or whatever, nothing's going to happen here.

27:36But let's move on. Speaking of which, someone who does have a great, has great speech. Let's bring in our friend of Pivot.

27:48Doug Jay, also known as the New York Times Pitchbot. He remains anonymous. miss. He's a person behind one of my favorite accounts on social media. Makes me laugh all the time. Every time I read it, New York Times Pitchbot. Every day, the Pitchbot mines the news to craft headlines and hot takes that are hilarious and ridiculous. And it could be possibly New York Times stories. Sorry, New York Times, but they're funny. Some gems include, is the Travis Kelsey Taylor Swift relationships Biden's Katrina? The iPhone 15 will move away from the lightning connector. Here's why that's bad news for Joe Biden.

28:22We want to understand how Elon Musk's ex might become half of the global financial system. So we talked to four NFT collectors at a Smash Burger in San Mateo. Whether it's Chuck Schumer relaxing the Senate dress code to appease John Fetterman or Lauren Boebert groping her data to play, members of Congress on both sides of the aisle are preoccupied with what's going on inside men's shorts. The pitch bot prefers to keep his identity, true identity under wraps. So we'll be referring to him today by his alias, Doug Jay. Welcome, Doug Jay. How you doing? Great. It's great to be here. I love what you do.

28:54I love what you do. So I'd love you to tell me how you decided to do this. There's sort of, there's so on point of things that could actually happen. Is it just you want to do a parody or what? So I guess I sort of started doing it because the pandemic happened and I didn't have time to write. I used to write for a blog called Balloon Juice, but I didn't have time. I have two kids. and well, actually, I only had one kid when it began. And I didn't have time to sit in front of the computer and write. So I was like, I want to do something fun on Twitter. And I really liked the Federalist Pitchbot and Reason Pitchbot.

29:28And so I decided to do a Pitchbot. So I did it for about a week. And then a friend of mine, who's actually a conservative journalist, who's working at Weekly Standard at the time, emailed me, DMed me and said, this is great. You got to stick with this. You were born to do this. And so that's how I really got into it. One thing about it is that it's a mixture of things, right? Like I'm not really anti-New York Times necessarily. So it's sort of like, sometimes they're mean, sometimes they're mean. But in general, I'm just trying to sort of capture a little bit what I think is this sort of journalistic zeitgeist that goes on in a lot of elite media publications.

30:06Talk about what that is from your, because let me read one of your most popular posts from 2021 during the US withdrawal from Afghanistan. We wanted to understand what's happening in Afghanistan. So we talked to three unvaccinated Trump supporters at an Arby's in Harrisburg. Yeah, so I really don't like this thing, you know, what they call the diner safaris, where they drop into the middle of nowhere and they talk to people. And inevitably, of course, no matter where they go, right, the people are all Trump supporters or at the very least, you know, disillusioned Democrats or something like that.

30:39And also, they almost never, ever have someone say something intelligent in these interviews, right? I mean, I'm sure if you, I don't know, a friend of mine who's from South Dakota told me I'm wrong about this. But my belief is that if you walked into just about anywhere, if there were 20 or 30 people there, one of them would actually be well-informed and have something intelligent to say about whatever the issue is. But I feel like they have like a laser-like focus on whoever's going to say sort of the most kind of dumb and pro-Trump thing that they can find. And I think it perpetuates a lot of stereotypes.

31:11Yeah, I agree with you. That's why it's funny, because it's like, oh, I read that story, right? I read that story that they did. But is it the New York, you said it's not the New York Times, you're talking about media in general for parody. It's more all the elite media. I've read the New York Times my entire life. So I sort of know the way that they talk, you know. But when I started doing this, I started to realize that the Atlantic and a lot of sub-stack people are much worse than the New York Times, you know, much more sort of like the Atlantic's obsession with campus free speech. New York Times is bad about it too, but it's, they're truly, truly obsessed with it.

31:47So I sort of branched off a little bit into other types of elite media and sort of also like, I don't know if you'd call them elite, but like very well-known sub-stackers like Matt Iglesias. And I guess Jonathan Chait isn't technically a sub-stacker, but he's a sub-stacker to me. Life has imitated art several times of the years where one of your headlines is almost verbatim, an actual headline in the Times or another place, which is funny and frightening. Yeah. So I get a lot. It's a very, very interactive thing. Like almost everything to do with the breaking stories is interactive. You know, I go on, I go into my DMs or mentions and people are like, Hey, Hey, Hey, this story's breaking.

32:22And then I always think to myself, as soon as it breaks, I'm like, I've got to think of the really dumb take on it and get up there fast so that I get it up before it actually appears in print. Cause three or four times I've done it. And then I was like, Oh, and people said, Oh, you missed an hour ago. The New York times I already ran that headline. In fact, I'd say more often than not, that's what happens with my really dumb takes, if I'm slow at all, is there will already be someone saying it, you know? Nice to meet you, Doug Jay. Nice to meet you. What is your process? Will you come up with some ideas and then run them through a kitchen cabinet of friends or let them ruminate?

33:00And also, do you use generative AI to come up with ideas or screen them? What's your kind of creative process? So the creative process is, I do definitely scan my replies and my DMs for ideas from people. But a lot of it is this, and this is why I feel like the AI angle on it is sort of a good angle, is I have about maybe about 20 templates for headlines. There's some that are more popular than others. There's like six or seven that are my real go-tos. and when something happens that I think is worth commenting on, I immediately just go through in my head all 20 of it, or I don't always get through 20, usually one of the first six or seven works.

33:41I go through all my templates and shove it into a template. So it is very AI-ish in that I occasionally I do a really freeform one, but for the most part, I have a very, very set template for it, which I think also is how the New York Times does its headlines. And so it's sort of, I think it's kind of worked because it's a little bit AI-ish and it's called a pitch bot, but it also really does. It really is also what best captures sounding like them, I think. Is this just pure consumption? Is this just for joy? Is it part of a larger strategy to become a media personality and monetize it? Is it to influence culture or is it just a kick in the ass?

34:19What is the reward here? I would say it began 100 % as just a kick in the ass. And then I started to think, and then people would say to me, like people I really respected in media said, oh, I really like what you're doing. And it's, I think it's, I think that, I think they actually read it. I think it actually makes a difference. It's sort of, it's sort of prods people not to be so, media not to not. And so I decided, okay, well, now I've got to be a little bit more serious about it, you know? And so I don't really like dark stories very much. And so, like, after there's a mass shooting or something, part of me is like, God, I just want to log off for a little while.

34:58And then I think, but this is where the media in some ways is at its very worst. And so I actually feel like I got to go on there, make fun of these terrible things because it's, you know, because they really are doing awful things that I think undermine attempts at, say, gun control, for example. I would agree. But some stories, obviously, like Lauren Boebert behaving badly at Beetlejuice or David Brooks posting about food prices in New York. They're just slam dunks, correct? Yeah, a lot of it is really just for fun. Like, you know, like especially if some story comes up and I'm getting like a million people DMing me and my friends are texting me.

35:35My wife is talking to me about it. I think, well, this is just going to be fun for like the next 20 minutes. I'll just sit around and write silly stuff about David Brooks, you know. Although I do also think with a David, the Lauren Boebert one was just, I originally almost didn't want to do it. because I don't really care about Lauren Roebert's personal life. It's not that bad, whatever she did. The David Brooks one I feel differently about, right? Because I think it does feed into this really annoying thing of, you know, oh, everything's bad news for Biden and inflation's so bad. And if you look at particularly how Brooks, quote unquote, apologized for it, right?

36:11He turned around and said, well, I know I'm a rich guy drinking expensive bourbon. But, you know, sticker shock is how regular Americans feel when they see X. And I'm capturing that on the tweet. And so I and I knew he was I knew that's what he was doing sort of all along. And so, yeah, some of it like that, it's a slam dunk. But at the same time, it really is just the kind of thing that the media does that they really shouldn't do, in my opinion. Yeah, I would agree. You have frequent targets that you use. Maureen Dowd comes up, Elon Musk and Glenn Greenwald. Between Glenn Greenwald and Maureen Dowd, you really do cover the thing.

36:46Do you have any personal favorites, templates that are your favorites? So I kind of like, I love doing the Maureen Dowd ones. The thing with Maureen Dowd is that this is a very stereotypical thing. She really, really reminds me of a lot of people in my mom's family. My mom's from a really big Irish family. So that one is just fun. And those things are in my head anyway. They've been in my head my whole life. So I like doing those the best. I really like doing the hard to do, but I really like the, in this Ohio town, it was a tradition one. Those are a lot of fun to do. Times have been tough in this Ohio town ever since the woke mob shut down the old Choco Taco factory.

37:30That's probably my favorite template, but it's very hard. They're too hard to do. I can almost never do one properly. And I like the Indiana Diner one a lot too. In this Indiana diner, everyone has three questions. Is the quarry hiring? How's the bread of tenderloin? And then a third question. I like that one because someone from Indiana just wrote it for me. Then I started to use it. What accounts do you admire? Probably my all-time favorite account, he's not really on Twitter anymore, is Oliver Willis. I think he just really gets politics in a way that hardly anybody else does. I really like Atreos a lot.

38:09I really like, she's not, she's a little mellower on Twitter, not as funny as maybe she used to be. I like Gloria Ryan a lot. She can be very, very funny. And I liked, a lot of the things I liked are gone. Federalist Pitchbot is gone. The Reason Pitchbot is gone. And one of the ones I really, really liked was the fake Professor Jeff Jarvis account. that now, which I feel bad liking because I actually like Jeff Jarvis too. And, uh, and the guy who did it said he, it's a little bit like me with the New York times. The guy who did it started making fun of Jeff Jarvis. And then he realized actually Jeff Jarvis isn't really that bad.

38:54There's much worse people. And so it sort of branched off into kind of an all purpose, you know, making fun of stupid tech stuff. Okay. I don't think that guy's very active anymore, But that was one of my all-time favorites. What happens to that? How active do you stay? You know, with Elon's purchase of Twitter last year, the platform, it is exactly what it used to be. Last week, Scott called it the sewage system of a sewer. Do you, is it still an effective place to do this for you? You're still posting actively. Do you think elsewhere is important or is it just these things have a lifespan? I'm really ambivalent about staying on Twitter.

39:29I checked out Blue Sky and I checked out Threads. and I didn't really like them as much, unfortunately. I don't really mind Elon having all the fake followers and making everybody see his tweets and stuff. I kind of think it's funny, to be honest with you. A lot of the Elon stuff is just funny to me. It almost makes it better. But the stuff with the anti-Semitism is starting to really disturb me. And part of me thinks, you know, I've got to get off. We all have to get off of here. We're sort of just promoting this sort of proto-Nazi sort of movement. You know, I hope I'm wrong, but that the anti-Semitism, I mean, there's a racism in the misogyny, too.

40:09I don't know why the anti-Semitism seems even a little scarier to me right now. Right. And when you think about that, when you're sort of making fun and Elon's very easy to make fun of. Is there anybody that's really pushed back at you among these? Glenn Greenwald would be one of the people I guess would be angry at you for this or do they? Yeah. So, Glenn, I have a long I have a long history with Glenn, actually. uh most of which maybe i better not describe i think he might get pretty angry but uh yeah i used to actually be a really big glenn greenwald fan and he was a really big balloon juice fan he'd show up in the comments and he'd email us and say he liked the stories and stuff um so i think he doesn't want to get into it with me because uh because he knows that i know things that if i said about him he wouldn't look very good oh wow wow wow are there any other journalists that push back or do they try to just laugh?

41:01Not really. Mostly they just, I have almost no hostile DMs like ever really. But I've got a lot of like people like Jonathan Martin showed up once to say I was all wrong. You know, Jonathan Martin and Matt Iglesias and Jonathan Chait have showed up sometimes to say that they don't like the accountant, that it's funny, that this isn't funny or stuff like that. But very few, actually, I get much less criticism than I would have expected. Sometimes I actually am like, it's really weird to me. I don't have more hostile replies. And so I'll do like a name search. I'll do like pitch bot idiot or something like that to see if anybody said, you know, and I almost never find anything hostile.

41:40Well, I think they do hit close to home and you're like, oh yeah, we do do that. Right. Or that's the way we actually behave and we really shouldn't. That's where I, that's what I, even though I just laugh at some of them out loud, what I do get from it is what you're exactly, what you're saying is, man, we got to stop being so reductive. Like when I look at the headlines, I'm like, oh, you're kidding me. This is exactly the complaint. I think the reflexive, what I really think is most dangerous, what I'm really trying to make the most is this reflexive desire to equate both sides in some way.

42:11And there may have been times in political American political history where it did make sense to equate both sides, but I just think it doesn't make any sense now. I mean, I think even when Democrats do bad things, right, They shouldn't compare them to the Republican bad things because they're usually much worse. Whatever Trump has done is much worse, you know. But that doesn't make Bob Menendez okay, you know. I think it's very bad because I think in a weird way it ends up excusing bad behavior from Democrats by putting it in the context of bad behavior for Republicans. And I think that's bad too.

42:43Do you see this as if you were talking to a young journalist or a young comedian, it feels like these things kind of come and go. and what do you think, what advice would you have for a young journalist? Do you think this is an effective means of, I mean, you're doing it anonymously, but is this a potential good weapon in someone's quiver to advance their career in journalism? So I kind of think it is. I mean, I think that actually there are some, I guess, I don't know if they're younger anymore, but like one of the journalists who actually has done a lot of tweets that are sort of similar in style to mine is Dave Weigel.

43:24And I think, at least for me, it bought a lot of credibility with me as a reader. I didn't really know who he was. And I'd see him on Twitter and he'd be making these really sharp points, making fun of media framing. And I sort of thought, yeah, this guy is really pretty sharp. I can really trust him, read his stuff. So yeah, I think I've done properly. It would be a good thing for a journal. I think some people do anyway. Yeah. Already. Reminds me a lot of fake Steve Jobs, you know, which was really impactful more than, you know, it was very, very funny. And he was anonymous for a while. But I remember thinking it was super impactful in that, or Spy Magazine, when they used to have those columns, where it really did skewer the media in a way that made you think, wow, we really have got to stop doing what we're doing, especially as things become more dramatic.

44:15And I know it's meant just to be funny, and sometimes I just laugh at them. But it's a really interesting thing to really, all of those things made me as a journalist rethink what I was doing constantly, almost constantly, especially fake Steve Jobs. Yeah, I totally agree about fake Steve Jobs. Yeah, and that's kind of the tone that I want to, I mean, not all the time. Sometimes I do want to be mean, but that's basically the tone that I like to try to have, you know. Yeah. So last question, how long are you going to keep at it? Does it get exhausting? How many do you put out a day? That's hard.

44:46So actually, so I actually, the thing that really keeps me going, I'd say is my wife has a lot of suggestions about it. I have a bunch of friends that text me stuff. And then probably most importantly, I have a co-writer who probably does about, DMs me about 20 % of the things that I write, but also alerts me to lots of stories and stuff like that. And so I think as long as people are still, you know, helping me out that way and prodding me to do it, I'll stick with it for quite a while. I don't do as many tweets as I used to. Something about how crazy Twitter got sort of depressed me, and I don't spend as much time on it as I used to.

45:20Yeah, well, I think that's the way it is for a lot of people. Are you happy now for Travis, Kelsey, and Taylor? It gives you a lot. Very happy. That's a good story. Is there any journalists you're ready to go at that you haven't besides Maureen? That's a good question. Well, so, by the way, I don't really feel like I'm going at Maureen. I don't either. But I just think it's funny. You know, what I'd like to do is make fun of the really bad New York Times columnist more. Like, I think, I don't even really mind Maureen Dowd at all. I'm not a huge David Brooks fan, but I don't think he's the worst.

45:56I'd like to make fun of Brett Stevens and Pamela Paul more, because I think that some of their stuff is really, really terrible. Well, they're right there. Right there. Well, none of us will bring it up with Maureen, I'll tell you. I know her, but none of us mention it to her. I just have to say, we're like, should we say? We don't know. We're not going to ask her. She's a really lovely person, actually. Anyway, Doug Jay, I love New York Times pitch bot. I think it's really funny. So keep the headlines coming and we really appreciate it. It's a public service. Thanks for having me. Thanks, Doug Jay.

46:31Scott, thanks for indulging me. I love him. I think he's so funny and witty. It's not mean and it's really funny, I think. But I think he does toe the line of meanness. He's not mean. There's a lot of really mean people on Twitter. He's not one of them. It's an enjoyable part of Twitter, and I hope he keeps there. But I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

46:56Mercury knows that to an entrepreneur, every financial move means more. An international wire means working with the best contractors on any continent. A credit card on day one means creating an ad campaign on day two. And a business loan means loading up on inventory for Black Friday. That's why Mercury offers banking that does more, all in one place, so that doing just about anything with your money feels effortless. Visit Mercury.com to learn more. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group, Column N.A., and Evolve Bank & Trust members FDIC.

47:35The pumpkin spice latte is back at Starbucks. Crafted with our signature espresso and real pumpkin sauce. Then topped with whipped cream, cinnamon, and nutmeg. The PSL. Get it while it's hot. Or iced. Only at Starbucks.

47:53Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I'm going to go first, because we continue to search for the origins of Joey Bag of Donuts. Many of you have written to let us know the phrase goes back further than Mike Birbiglia. Comedian Don Herrera was talking about him back in the 80s. Let's listen. I was a little kid. I lived in South Philly. I'd see the guys in the corner. I'd learn from them. I'd see them. Hey, Louie, how come you didn't come around? Everybody was around. Hey, little Petey, big Petey, regular Petey, Joe Bag of Donuts was here, Jimmy the Woman, Nicky Potato Salad, Squid Lit, Muscles Marinara, Irregular Petey, Carmelo Lemicola, Lord, the beaty-repeaty.

48:31How come you didn't come around, eh? A few of you also said Joey Bag of Donuts is a Wall Street phrase going back to the 90s. And of course, who can forget, as we said, Vinny Bag of Donuts references my cousin Vinny. We got more mail over this week than any other single issue. So it's a fail. We're never going to find the origins of Joey Bag of Donuts. But Scott, you keep saying that. So that's our personal fail. But the win was that those two pair of interviews with Yoel and Linda, I think it really was, it was really well done. I think it showed a lot of stuff that people needed to see and how difficult what's happening there is.

49:11That was, I would say, it was a win. Scott? So my win is as a native son of California, I think we didn't have an opportunity to highlight the passing of Senator Dianne Feinstein. but senator feinstein you know um one of the first uh first uh female jewish senators ahead of the curve on assault weapons ahead of the curve on women's rights ahead of the curve on reproductive rights um was very like was pro-lgbtq publicly before it was cool and you know she she really lived a she was a brave woman and um you know and unfortunately her legacy is a touch tarnished but when you look at her when you look at her accomplishments she just served the country and the state so steadfastly and was you know was courageous this was a woman who was brought to power by a murder.

50:15And I think she, and personally, the thing that saddens me about this is she was also a moderate. She absolutely had a deep appreciation for the power and importance of business in the private sector. And it feels like there are so few people in the Senate who recognize that in order to have the empathy and programs that we need to help our less fortunate, we need a private sector that is vibrant and that can chug along and create tons of shareholder value. And I feel as if the number of people that I loosely describe as moderates is just declining. And especially someone who has that kind of courage and respect.

51:00She was a lion in the Senate. a grandmother you know married three times born into wealth but didn't you know always advocated for the poor I think she just a real iconic figure you know who gave an actual you know there was a big contrast when she hugged Lindsey Graham during the Senate hearings of someone I guess it was one of the Supreme Court judges he gave a very good eulogy of her for a minute the old Lindsey Graham was back you know what I mean who wasn't being you know a Trump suck up. They had a very close relationship. And he gave a wonderful, I guess, eulogy for him on CBS, the morning show on Sunday.

51:44And I thought he really articulated, well, I know it's unpopular to quote him, but he used to be quite sensible. And I felt for a minute like, oh, look, there he is. And there she is. And it was a different time. You know, everything's gotten so partisan. And it reminded me, and I know people will be mad at me for saying this, but he was incredibly articulate and smart about the bipartisanship. Even he seemed nostalgic for it, right? And here was a friend of his who died and who became friends with, and they were able to do legislation together. It was interesting. He paid compliment to Ted Kennedy and her as the lion and lioness of the Democratic Party, and that they got stuff done across party lines in cooperation.

52:25And it was really an interesting, I urge you to go watch it, because usually lately, most of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is just blather. But this was, I was like, oh, that Lindsey Graham is, there he is. Like, it was interesting. But I thought you're right. She's a, she was a legend. I, I, I agree with you. And I'm sorry for her final years. But good people, you know, plant trees, the shade of which they will never sit under. She was an incredible advocate. There are hundreds of thousands of acres of what I believe is the most beautiful ecosystem in the world. And that's California desert.

52:56and she was a tireless champion for protecting California deserts. You know, there's just a lot of stuff that people won't remember, but will, you know, that she had a real impact on. Anyways, my win is the late great Lioness of the Senate, Dianne Feinstein. My fail is, so on Sunday, Tottenham Spurs played Liverpool, and as is often the case in sports, it's 1-1, and they're playing not to lose. push everyone, shove everyone to the defensive end of the field. And of course, they own goal and they lose. And there's just so much analysis around sports history that when you play not to lose, when you're like, go defensive, you almost always lose.

53:43And my sports analogy here is that I think the Democrats with Biden are playing not to lose. And let me just say it now, we are really risking a lot with Biden. And I'll be very overt here. I think, and I think there's several people, but I'll just mention one. I think you put Governor Newsom on a debate stage with Donald Trump and people look at him and they look at Donald Trump and they hear what Governor Newsom says. I think he's a lock. And I think you put Biden on a stage for six to nine months against Donald Trump. Oh my gosh, we're playing not to lose. We're playing not to lose. So I just think as a party, if we're really serious about the best odds for winning, and I do every, they say this every time, I think this election is massively important.

54:41I think if we reelect an insurrectionist who's a criminal. It's just, I mean, there's a lot here. We should not play to lose. Maybe we'll get lucky and Trump will go to jail and Biden will decide to do the right thing. Maybe, you know. It's not going to happen by the election. I don't say. Could be. Could be. Who knows? But what, anyways, I'm really. I see you're very frustrated. I'm really worried here. What about Beto? Maybe Beto will come back, Scott, your favorite. You mock me. I mock you because you were wrong. You kept picking loser after loser. I'm terrible at the politics of it. Yeah. Well, then maybe we shouldn't listen to you.

55:20Anyway, we'll see. I think you're right to articulate this. A lot of people do, for sure. I'm going to support you, except your Beto choice was idiotic and remains that way years later. Let me put it this way. The first presidential debate, the Republican nominee, Donald Trump, faces off against what are you excited to see and what are you nervous as shit to see? I get it. Biden or Newsom? I get it. I get it. It's like watching the Linda Recarino interview. I mean, you tune in and you're like, I can't wait to have America see Newsom face off against Trump. If it's Biden, we're all like, oh, fuck.

55:53Let's just hope he gets through it. I get it. But, you know, this is where we are. This is where we find ourselves. But yes, I get it. I get your worries, Scott Galloway. But we'll see where it goes. You never know. This is, look what happened. Like, we didn't have a government shutdown. Everyone thought there was going to be one. Anyway, politics is certainly not boring anymore. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Okay, Scott, that's the show.

56:20We'll be back on Friday for more. I'm sure there'll be a, Jeff McCarthy might be out of a job by the time we talk, but we'll see. Maybe not. Who knows? Who's to say? We'll be back on Friday for more. Scott, read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mille Saverio, and Gaddy McPain. Make sure you subscribe to the show or if you're listening to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care.

56:47Have a great rest of the week.