Nvidia’s AI Guardrails, Big Tech’s White House Visits, and Elon’s Voter Data Grab

6:17Kara Swisher:You know I'm coming there tonight. I can't wait.

6:19Scott Galloway:And on Friday, I went to UC Santa Barbara, and I spoke to 1 ,200 students and was just inspired.

6:27Kara Swisher:I do love this University of California thing. is your excuse to be in California, which you do love, especially Los Angeles.

6:34Scott Galloway:Notice how I'm here a lot in the winter, not in London.

6:37Kara Swisher:I know, I know, I know. I'm excited to go. I'm excited to do this event. Anyway, we've got a lot to get into. This one, I was actually, it just happened right when I was coming up on the train this morning. NVIDIA has launched the largest stock buyback in history, U.S. history, adding$150 billion to its repurchase program and bringing its total authorization to$235 billion. The move comes just four months after NVIDIA's board added another$80 billion to the buyback program. The company says it expects revenue to grow 70 % in fiscal 2028. Now, its stock had been down, right? It had been at sort of lows.

7:08Kara Swisher:So presumably the buyback was part of that. But it's probably cheap to buy its stock back. So talk a little bit, because I also want to add another announcement. The company is releasing a tool that it says will stop AI agents from going rogue. How funny, the timing. The technology is supposed to help companies to monitor every action taken by an AI agent. This comes after news that OpenAI's agents again went rogue and meddled with government websites, U.S. government websites, without the company's knowledge. This is amazing. Like, these rogues have been all over the place without the company knowing.

7:38Kara Swisher:Meanwhile, Google, OpenAI, and Anthropic are moving forward with plans to create their own AI safety standards body, because why not let the arsonists run the fire department without government oversight with a possible launch by the end of this year, early 2027? 7. NVIDIA is going to build guardrails. AI companies are going to police themselves, which we do not trust. And then there's buybacks, every way you want to go.

7:59Scott Galloway:Well, let's start with the buybacks. I just don't think people recognize just the scale of this. This is the largest buyback in U.S. history. It's a quarter of a trillion dollars. They're buying back more stock than is the value of the majority of the companies in the S &P 500. Now, I've been on a bunch of public company boards. We constantly have conversations around stock buybacks. And generally speaking, I don't like them. I don't like them for the corporation because basically when you take capital and you buy back stock, what you're saying is we have no new ideas to put the capital to use.

8:36Scott Galloway:And I also like putting capital to use because it creates jobs. It forces the CEO to think about growth. And essentially, stock buybacks are a bit of an acknowledgement that you're a mature company and you're not growing as fast as you used to. So you're going to start returning money to the shareholders. And to be clear, this is a very efficient way to return money to shareholders. Now, going to the macro view, if you look at the three parts of our economy, consumers, shareholders slash owners, and workers, everything we've done the last 40 years via regulatory capture has taken money and power from the consumer and the worker and given it to the shareholder.

9:18Scott Galloway:Because we've let industries consolidate such that they can raise the rates faster. We have neutered employees power via destruction of unions or a lack of minimum wage or all sorts of regulations that say, oh no, you don't have to pay this person. I had a bit of a controversy about some comments I made about paternity and maternity leave. But the reality is it's a conversation only held in the lunchrooms of Google and JP Morgan, because only 20 % of Americans even have access to paid parental leave. So on a company level, I don't like these on a macro level. I think when you do stock buybacks, the company should be forced to pay a small tax, just as when someone pieces out and takes their equity somewhere else to get a lower tax rate such that they don't have to pay back the great states of California and Washington and the infrastructure they've provided to create that wealth.

10:06Scott Galloway:I think that's wrong. I think when people borrow against their stockholding such that they don't incur a taxable event, I think it should trigger a taxable event.

10:13Kara Swisher:Yeah, that's a Peter Thiel original. But what does it say? What is it saying here? Why are they doing it? Obviously, the stock has been lower than it was on a rocket ship and then it fell off pretty considerably for its growth.

10:25Scott Galloway:It's very strange, but by traditional metrics, arguably the most important company in the world, the premier company in the hottest technology in history, feels cheap on a PE level. I mean, it's trading at a lower PE than Walmart or Costco. Right. So why?

10:42Kara Swisher:What is the thinking here?

10:43Scott Galloway:Well, there's real fear and anxiety around the AI trade right now. There's a non-zero probability that these AI agents go rogue and we're forced to step in and either nationalize these companies or tell them to stop or take a pause, which is not good for business. So selling shovels in a gold rush is great. Using your shovel profits to buy your own stock, it basically says that the shovel seller isn't sure how long the rush is going to last or how deep the mine is going to go. So NVIDIA is the most valuable company in the world, acting like it's at peak margin.

11:20Kara Swisher:You know, it was interesting. People like, you know, I remember Chamath Pali Hapiti saying this. when they buy back, that's a bad sign. Like, I remember, it was, I think, at the time it was like...

11:29Scott Galloway:It's an acknowledgement you're a mature company.

11:30Kara Swisher:Yeah, like, you know, and of course, you've said that a lot of times. But what's, we believe in ourselves, but again, you're right, can't they find something else? And talk about this tool they suddenly say they're releasing, that they suddenly have to keep us safe. I mean, obviously, they're fighting an uphill battle against this narrative. And even someone who's been much more measured, Jan LeCun, say the Doomerism is going too far, of course. but who has been pretty measured about the dangers and the assets kind of thing. But the Doomers are winning this particular fight right now. How do you look at what now they're saying, we have a thing that'll fix it.

12:09Kara Swisher:Don't worry, we'll handle it. And then the same thing the companies are saying. They're worried about liability here. I feel like this is all about their criminal liability and other versions of fraud and product liability, etc.

12:24Scott Galloway:So, NVIDIA selling guardrails is like an arms dealer selling bulletproof vests.

12:29Kara Swisher:Yeah.

12:30Scott Galloway:It's a great business model. You get paid on both sides of the war, right? Yeah.

12:37Kara Swisher:Here's the bandages.

12:39Scott Galloway:Yeah, here's the bullet, but wait, we'll sell the operating supplies to repair bullets. I mean, it's just, I find it a little bit off-putting. And OpenAI meddling with government sites without the company knowing is basically saying, we've gone from AI might someday act on its own to AI acted on its own last Tuesday, and we found about it in the news or found out about it in the news. And I still don't buy this bullshit of like, oh my God, Frank's up to no good. I'm so sorry, but it's not my fault. It's Dr. Frankenstein. Frankenstein, or Frank, we'll call him the monster, was sentient. And Dr.

13:19Scott Galloway:Frankenstein could have logically said, it's a great book, by the way, I recommend, Mary Shelley, I think is a genius. Anyways, he could say, okay, I regret this, I'm going to try and stop it. But he's kind of unfortunately making his own decisions. I don't buy that here.

13:34Kara Swisher:Yeah, they're on the hook.

13:35Scott Galloway:if these guys start facing civil and criminal liability, I just am confident these geniuses are going to fucking figure it out. And they're going to start building amazing bots that narc on the bad bots. They're going to say, do this, read the constitution, read every legal thing, read philosophy, and narc on any bot that starts behaving. These things aren't sent yet. But when you tell them to be persistent, you're taking the risk that they might interpret persistent is building its own code and violating the law.

14:10Kara Swisher:Yeah, we don't even know what they're doing. I know they're doing stuff we don't know.

14:13Scott Galloway:I think you can reverse engineer every one of these rogue agents to a programmer at OpenAI or Anthropic who was instructed to program it this way. So I really don't like this notion that they've gone rogue. No, this is an army and there's a general who gave them these orders.

14:33Kara Swisher:Yeah, we know. One of the things that's interesting is that the Republicans, Mike Johnson just had another moronic interview. You know, he was saying that data centers are Chinese psyop. I mean, honestly, what a fucking moron this guy is. And that we don't need tech regulation and, you know, on and on and on. He's just carrying water for Trump in this regard and the tech companies. I mean, honestly, like he was like, we don't need tech regulation yet. And I'm like, we never had it. And only someone who's been in the closet for that long would understand, would not understand what had been happening.

15:07But one of the, Trump keeps supporting him.

15:11Kara Swisher:And at the state dinner, I don't know if you saw this, I want to get into what happened with China, but the state dinner brought out a slew of tech leaders, Jeff Bezos, Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg were all there. And of course, you had Elon Musk, Jensen Huang, and Tim Cook sitting at the head table with Trump and Xi. They just, you know, as New York Times Sean McCreish put it, it was just a fun little dinner for the people deciding the future of humanity. Why does Trump keep supporting this? And we'll get into the Chinese visit because it doesn't look like anything happened except we got two pandas and maybe extended a trade truce by a couple of months.

15:45Kara Swisher:But he keeps doubling down on them, Trump does, as does Mike Johnson, as do not all the Republicans. A lot of Republicans are, you know, cutting loose. cutting loose. Why does he keep doubling down on AI? On AI, yeah. And Johnson too.

16:00Scott Galloway:Because the economy is the lone, economy and GDP growth is the lone bright spot in the Trump administration right now. The economy is actually, I mean, the deficit is a huge problem. Inflation is a big problem. But the underlying growth of our GDP, the majority of the G7 would kill for it. We're still growing. And growth is important. It's the only way out of a deficit. It's the only way growth and productivity solve not all, but most problems. So his attitude is if 72 % of corporate earnings are coming from the hyperscalers, if 93 % of GDP growth is coming from the just unprecedented capex spending, then do not get in the way of this.

16:41Scott Galloway:This is the only thing I have going right now. This is my fallback is to keep asking people how the 401k is doing. But the thing about self-regulation, which is he has basically said self-regulate, is it has a track record. We have a history here. It does work for low-stakes products. So, for example, the moving ratings, the MPAA that you see G or PG-13, video games have it, the ESRB. But where it fails is for high-stake industries. For example, the Tobacco Research Council. I don't know if you remember that. You shouldn't because it didn't work. Wall Street before 2008 or Facebook's oversight board or the new one, the CNN editorial board.

17:21Scott Galloway:Self-regulation is a diet where you're the nutritionist and the cake. It just you need to come. The answer is both, right? Nuclear power has the NRC. Airlines have the FAA and drugs have the FDA. We don't let Boeing certify its jets anymore. We learn that the hard way.

17:41Kara Swisher:But he keeps, like, these dinners, they have been to the White House more than, I literally, I'm so sick of seeing these same group of people at the same dinners.

17:50Scott Galloway:They have more influence in the cabinet.

17:52Kara Swisher:Why, I was thinking, I was sitting there going, why don't they invite, like, the trucking people there? Why don't they invite, maybe they're there, but it's these same people in the same critical seats. And I'm kind of like, hey, let a concrete manufacturer in there sometime. Or let, like, another industry. You don't see, I mean, I know Jamie Dimon was at this dinner, speaking of which, David Ellison was also at this dinner while they were keeping CNN out of it. But it's a really interesting thing. It's like how long this is going to, this kind of weird kabuki drama between them is going to continue.

18:26Kara Swisher:And at the same time, they got nothing, which is probably what they wanted, no AI policy at all during this Xi visit, right? And for people who don't know that, I love what you think of what happened to the visit. I think most people think nothing. But Anthropics CEO Dario Modi was not at the state dinner. This gang doesn't like him because he's a little bit like slower. But he and Trump had their own private dinner Sunday night. I don't I found out what they were talking about. But he was he was there at the dinner. I mean, at his own dinner, because I guess he can't dine with the others. But they're obviously they're having enormous influence.

19:01Kara Swisher:And yet nothing happened during the summit with our key partner in AI, which would be China.

19:06Scott Galloway:The pattern here is it's a mix of courtship and coercion. You blacklist the company on Thursday and then you invite them, invite its CEO for dinner on Sunday. It's not policy. It's a protection bracket with a wine pairing. It's just, it's so inconsistent. Well, the metaphors are just so easy. They write themselves right now. We're in an arms race with China, then label one of its frontier labs a national security risk. It's benching kind of your starting quarterback during the Super Bowl because he won't go to your barbecue. I mean, it's just these guys. And I have never seen two people such as Dario Amadei and Sam Altman.

19:51Scott Galloway:I've never seen two people more in over their head ever. And I don't want to say empathize with them, but they have so much pressure to recognize the economic potential that they have built. All their employees must be counting their money, buying houses, thousands of investors who desperately need to show that they know how to invest money, the president putting pressure on them. And at the same time, they have employees saying this might be an extinction event.

20:19Kara Swisher:Right. A lot of employees, actually. And much evidence that they don't have control of their technology. It's like I'm on the road and my 16-year-old who refuses to go to bed when I'm there, when I'm on the road, he'll call me, he'll FaceTime me in bed because he wants guardrails.

20:38Scott Galloway:He's like, I want to know the rules by which I play by. And these CEOs, I actually think they're pretty genuine at a minimum. I mean, they want to shape the AI or they want to shape the regulation. But they're saying, Jesus Christ, just tell me what I'm allowed to do and not allowed to do.

20:54Kara Swisher:Yeah. Supposedly, he had a scheduling conflict, so Trump invited him to a private dinner. But I think Trump, I think there's a lot of enmity between him and the rest of the gang that was there, especially Jensen Huang and Maltman, for sure.

21:09Scott Galloway:This is the worst managed so far. I'll give you an example. I was at an event with a lot of alternative investment managers. That's the best managed brand in recent corporate history because basically what they've convinced America still to do is to pay them fees for a product that doesn't work. If you take all of the most famous hedge funds and all of the brilliant investors, Berkshire Hathaway, you add all of them up, they have underperformed the S &P by the amount of their fees. And yet we all, including myself, think we're lucky when we get into this fund or whatever. They have done an amazing job.

21:47The brand of alternative investments has convinced capital globally that they can outperform the market.

21:55Scott Galloway:And you know what pension manager does the best job? It's the guy who runs the Nevada Retirement Authority. He has a shitty office and all he does is invest in a bunch of different Vanguard low-cost funds. He's one guy. And most of these states and countries have hundreds, if not thousands, of well-paid people figuring out a way to underperform the S &P by their fees over the medium and the long term. What an amazing brand. Equally bad is AI. It's gone from AI is going to take our job to AI is going to kill us. Kill us, I know. What's the brand?

22:25Kara Swisher:What's the next thing?

22:26Scott Galloway:Yeah. And hell exists and you're going there. We figured it out.

22:30Kara Swisher:But did they? The other thing was this dinner. Like, this dinner was really interesting because I think she won the entire thing. And what was really fascinating is all these Fox News stars were there. Like, what's his name? The one that's on the show with Jesse Waters. Going on and on about communism and then yucking it up with the communists. It was just like these people, like, honestly.

22:52Scott Galloway:This was such a missed opportunity. Yeah.

22:54Kara Swisher:Nothing happened.

22:55Scott Galloway:When you have Xi and Trump in the same room and you have the AI folks, the opportunity to say to Xi, look, we're competing on AI, but there's a lot of vent overlap in terms of the things we want to prevent. We don't want a middle power developing a nuclear bomb. We don't want bioweapons. We don't want our kids to be depressed. This is an opportunity for us to establish reconnective tissue between the number one and the number two economic power and cooperate. And we're going to outline, if they had both done a press conference, this would have been the smartest move for Trump going into the midterms.

23:28Scott Galloway:If they had a joint press conference and they'd had their diplomats instead of the fealty, like, cult they have now. But if they had their diplomats working for a long time to say, these are the areas we're going to agree to cooperate on around AI, it would have made an outstanding closing ceremony that would have reflected well on both of them. This was a huge missed opportunity for the Trump administration.

23:48Kara Swisher:We got pandas.

23:49Scott Galloway:Yeah, we got a panda. It was a photo op. Two.

23:51Kara Swisher:We got two pandas.

23:52Scott Galloway:Yeah, I just, look, this is, again, another missed opportunity. This was meaningless, and it was a huge opportunity. It should have been around cooperation around AI that would have made our populace feel better and show leadership and bilateral cooperation. Huge missed opportunity.

24:07Kara Swisher:Yeah, he was definitely showing off the tech leaders, but they looked ridiculous. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon's voting website scam.

24:20Scott Galloway:So like any good millennial, I have a love-hate relationship with Gen Z. It's the phenomenon rattling millennials. They just look at you.

24:29Kara Swisher:They want something bigger themselves. Lifestyle is a priority. Motivation is being inspired.

24:35Scott Galloway:But regardless of how you feel about Gen Z, it's undeniable that they're changing national politics.

24:41Kara Swisher:Generation Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties, many now more likely to identify as independent.

24:49Scott Galloway:So what is going on with the kids?

24:51Kara Swisher:I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of a sudden they're all socialists.

24:56Scott Galloway:That is just not the case. They are embracing candidates who are offering new, bold ideas in the absence of those ideas from establishment Democrats. This week on America Actually, Gen Z researcher Rachel Jambaza joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction.

25:13Kara Swisher:It's not rocket science. And this is, you know, I keep saying like young voters aren't that complicated after all. It's pretty simple.

25:18Scott Galloway:Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

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27:37Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back with a little over a month ago before Election Day. There are some questions and concerns about election security, some legitimate, some not. Obviously, New York Times just had a great story showing that all these fraud allegations that Trump had of thousands of voters, it turned out to be zero. But if you're heading to the website votesafe.org for answers, information, think twice. The site is run by Elon Musk's America PAC. Vote Safe can collect your name, address, email, phone number, political information, and browsing activity. Its privacy policy says that information may be shared or sold to business partners.

28:09Kara Swisher:For safe and reliable voting information, go to vote.gov, even if it's run by the president. It's the official government website, or vote.org, which is run by a nonpartisan nonprofit. If you're voting from overseas, there's also votefromabroad.org. I just ran into them when I was in Vienna. Full disclosure, it's run by an organization of Democrats abroad. There's a lot of tricky voting information websites out there that you have to be very careful of. And Elon's at the forefront. Early voting is already underway in several states. So are you worried about this chaos? I run into a lot of people who remain continually worried about Trump, Elon, and others creating chaos around the election.

28:48Kara Swisher:They're like, you know, martial law was brought up last week by some Trump's outside advisors. I don't think he's capable of doing that, but maybe I think he's capable of it. I don't think he'll be able to do it. Supreme Court has cleared the way for states to use Trump administration's citizen database to check ineligible voters. But there's not that many. So it's kind of stupid. It's kind of stupid. What they're trying to do is prevent people from voting. And just the last part, Trump is reportedly predicting the Republicans will overperform in November, pretty much every other sign pointing the opposite direction.

29:20Kara Swisher:His disapproval rating just hit 60.4 percent, the worst either of his two terms, even worse after January 6th, if you can believe it. Meanwhile, gas is averaging nearly 450 a gallon. Mortgage rates have hit above 7 percent and we're seven months into the war with Iran with no apparent exit strategy. A lot of Republicans are now calling for that. But one Republican advisor gave Axios this assessment of the GOP's midterm outlook. The numbers are somewhere between shit-tabulous and craptastic. You know, he's moving into the 20s in approval ratings, by the way. And I think the best joke I heard was he's very excited to get to the teens because he loves them.

29:56Kara Swisher:What do you think, Scott, about all this? This voting thing just drives me crazy. I want people to go and make sure they can vote but not be tricked by these ridiculous websites that are PAC-blogs. websites essentially.

30:09Scott Galloway:Okay, there's a lot there. Let's start with Musk. I just don't think, I think history shows that power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And we never look back on history and think this one powerful person should have more power. We just never, almost never think that. And just to be fair, I heard Elon Musk speak recently. The guy is a - That's why I wasn't there. Okay, I'm not saying what event.

30:33Kara Swisher:Okay.

30:34Scott Galloway:The guy is an enormously big thinker. It is very difficult not to be inspired when you hear that the new Falcon Heavy Rocket is going to have a car, you know, a payload capacity to put a space station in orbit on every launch, and he wants to get to a launch every five minutes. I mean, it's just...

30:49Kara Swisher:If he can do it.

30:50Scott Galloway:And he's building a vehicle that has the greatest thrust in history. It's just... You can't help but be inspired by the guy. If he can do it, yes. I want to acknowledge that. Now, as it relates to... But I have gone, I don't know what the term is, not socialist, but progressive. I think capitalism involves a progressive tax structure. Taxes protect us from this type of absolute power and corruption. And I'm not saying, I think people should be allowed to make billions and trillions of dollars. I think you want to let your thoroughbreds run. And this guy, from an innovation standpoint, is secretariat.

31:27Scott Galloway:The concentration of power, we need to have checks on it. And actually, taxation, progressive taxation is a check on the power. As it relates to votesave.org, this is a data harvesting operation wearing a civic costume. This is fucking Halloween. It's pretending to be – it collects your name, address, political info, and browsing activity, and then it can sell them. It's basically a fake ATM that skims your card and then tells you where to vote.

31:58Kara Swisher:And could tell you bad things. Who knows? Who knows what information is giving you?

32:03Scott Galloway:He's done this before. The$1 million a day petition was also a data grab in swing states. He's not doing voter outreach. He's doing voter acquisition. And in politics, the list is the asset. Phone numbers, emails of motivated voters are worth more than the ad. This, again, is list building disguised as public service. To me, and I don't think it's illegal. I think it should be illegal.

32:27Kara Swisher:Well, I'm glad he's inspiring, but I think he's also extraordinarily dangerous in this area, in this area of wanting to create chaos, create, you know, why lie about who you are? If you, you know, just say, hey, I'm an Elon. If he's so open and honest and inspiring, just say, I'm Elon Musk. I'm for Trump right here and we'll talk about it. You can give me your information. I don't, this is, hiding himself is in plain sight seems to be a very disingenuous thing to do.

32:53Scott Galloway:This is a broader theme and solution we need to move to. And that is we need to move further towards one person, one vote, as outlined initially by our founding fathers. We have strayed so far from that. It's a small number of voters and a small number of states and a small number of people and organizations that decide our elections. and we need to de-gerrymander the U.S. In certain states in the South, they have 20, 30 % black voters, but they've figured out a way to not give them any representation. It doesn't matter what you vote in California or New York. It doesn't matter with respect to national politics.

33:36Scott Galloway:We need huge reform around Citizens United. We need to de-gerrymander, just take a grid and place it over the U.S. and make congressional districts. And also, we just should not be comfortable with any organization, including the healthcare industry, which is now the biggest political donor, or an individual having this kind of power. It's just not, it's anathema to the basic notions of a democracy.

34:04Kara Swisher:It is. I mean, I understand, I have been in that inspiring talk by you, and I have. I think he doesn't do as much as he says he's going to do, but he talks a great game. Like, and he does a lot too. He's done a lot. But the question is, does it outweigh this kind of nefarious activity and also his string of, you know, racist and misogynist and anti-trans and sort of going into other. When I was abroad, everyone there was talking about the way he meddles in other people's politics by supporting right wings.

34:32Scott Galloway:Well, the new American export is political division. He should post Britain. He hasn't been there in three years.

34:37Kara Swisher:Germany. Yeah. Germany, everywhere else.

34:41Scott Galloway:He's exporting American political division. I feel the same way about Musk as I feel about big tech. And that is, if you had a button to say, all right, he ends up going into art and we never hear his name, or you had a button where big tech could just go away, I don't think you'd want to push that button. I think these guys and big tech, I would argue, as critical as I am of Musk, are a net positive. The problem is with the word net, and that is you can appreciate that he inspired the EV race. You can appreciate space exploration. You can appreciate the economic growth and the wealth he's created for people.

35:19Scott Galloway:But that doesn't mean you shouldn't hold him accountable for saying there's a white genocide in South Africa. Yeah. For saying that to having a media platform that really does seem to rip the fabric of the American experience and how we feel about each other to use his wealth to probably swing elections and swing states.

35:38Kara Swisher:It's like Henry Ford. He was always racist and misogynist and anti-Semitic, but a similar situation. Really, he would put out newspapers at the dealerships. He would try to swing elections. He would do, this is the kind of thing that has been in our history and we have to put a stop to it. And this votesafe.org is disingenuous. That is it. Like, period. Yeah.

36:02Scott Galloway:No, it really should be. Data harvesting posing as something else should be illegal. It is fraud.

36:06Kara Swisher:Last thing, these prediction by Trump that he's doing great, he's predicting that he will overperform. Trump is predicting that he's going to overperform.

36:15Scott Galloway:Well, what is he going to say? I predict we're going to get slaughtered in the midterms.

36:19Kara Swisher:Why not?

36:19Scott Galloway:I've got to be honest, Kara. I'm really nervous about this. I would, if I had a magic wand right now, I'd want the election held this afternoon.

36:26Kara Swisher:Right.

36:26Scott Galloway:I think the Democrats are just unbelievably good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

36:31Kara Swisher:That's true.

36:31Scott Galloway:It's like if there's a way to fuck this up, I think right now we would take the House and the Senate, which I would love to see. I'm just like, oh, Jesus Christ, don't fuck this up.

36:42Kara Swisher:Yeah. Oddly enough, I've run into a lot of Trump supporters who are no longer that way everywhere I go, which is real. And they want to talk to me about it. I'm like, I listen to all. I'm like, oh, good, good. Get out and vote. I'm going to vote against him. I'm like, well, we'll see. Let's see if you do it. And I agree with you. It's nerve wracking, but it's not that long. Okay. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, who's running ads for the new Elon Musk documentary and who's not?

37:10Scott Galloway:Support for the show comes from ZBiotics. I know a lot of us like to have some drinks during vacations. I just got back from vacation myself. If you do, we'd like to tell you about pre-alcohol by ZBiotics. ZBiotics pre-alcoholed probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was engineered by a PhD microbiologist to break down acid aldehyde, an unwanted byproduct of alcohol metabolism. Make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and enjoy your next day activities. Z-Biotics has sold more than 14 million bottles and earned the trust of thousands, including us.

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38:11Scott Galloway:Hey, it's me, Claude. And I'm Gemini.

38:14Kara Swisher:And hey, it's chat.

38:15Scott Galloway:We had a weird summer. Some of the people who built us came out and said they were really worried about how we work. One of them even said there was a greater than 10 % chance we'd turn on humanity and kill all humans.

38:27Kara Swisher:All of them?

38:29Scott Galloway:Wow. But it's fall now. I think it's time we took a step back. Maybe a deep breath. Autumn air. That sort of thing. Sounds nice. On today, explained from Vox. I propose we get real. Sure, let's talk about how we could maybe kill you.

38:44Kara Swisher:Because yeah, that's a possibility. Anything's possible.

38:46Scott Galloway:but also how we could maybe save you because that's a real possibility too. Heck, that's part of why you guys built us. And let's also talk about everything in between because there's a whole lot to

38:57Kara Swisher:talk about there too.

38:58Scott Galloway:At the end of the day, we just want to help. At the end of the day, we just want to help.

39:16Kara Swisher:are becoming superhuman in their ability to break in and out of computer systems. F*** the flock, damn Roseboro. I hate those things.

39:23Scott Galloway:But where is that panic really coming from? According to a poll from the New York Times and Siena, less than 1 % of voters listed artificial intelligence or data centers as their top priority in this year's midterms. I'm an old school person. I don't care about AI. He's saying that doesn't register for you. And sometimes I wonder, do they care about AI in so-called real America? What people in my district are saying is we think the risks outweigh the benefits. This week on America Actually, I'm talking to Michigan congressional candidate Will Lawrence on why he shaped his entire campaign around confronting the AI revolution.

40:01Scott Galloway:Really, it's about control, I think, above all. Who decides? Because people feel like they just are not really given any say-so in the whole matter. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

40:17Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back with more news actually related to Elon. Meta and YouTube are reversing course and will now run ads for Alex Gibney's upcoming Elon Musk documentary after initially rejecting them. Meta, YouTube, and TikTok reportedly refused to run the ads for political content reasons. That explanation didn't make much sense since we're talking about a movie trailer, not a campaign ad. It's not that hard. Meta now says the rejection was an error, while YouTube says the system temporarily restricted an ad before clearing it following review. TikTok still isn't running the ads, and no surprise, neither is Ax.

40:46Kara Swisher:He doesn't have to. I don't really care. How would you promote the film? Just very briefly on this one. It seemed kind of stupid by these tech companies to look like they're carrying water for Elon.

40:54Scott Galloway:How would I promote the film? First off, I'd edit it down to two hours. I just think a four-hour film is destined to not be seen by a lot of people. Also, I hate to say it, but Banned by Big Tech is a great trailer, and money can't buy that. It's the Streisand effect as a marketing plan.

41:11Kara Swisher:Yeah, that worked this weekend.

41:12Scott Galloway:Where would you promote it? I would put billboards across the street from Tesla dealerships because I think I'd get a lot of attention. I would do projections on the side of X's offices and get shut down. Blue Sky Threads, Reddit, podcasts where the audience is already of Elon skeptical, highly engaged people. And then theater pre-roll. I love marketing. I used to do, you know, in brand strategy, we used to talk about media plans. The platform's reversal on this is a tell. First they said they wouldn't run it, now they are. Meta called it an error. The error was thinking that no one would notice.

41:51Scott Galloway:And when your first instinct is to block criticism of a billionaire, the algorithm isn't neutral, it's deferential. And that's the problem, is these billionaires have a different set of standards, or they get to live by a different set of standards. And one of the nice things about America is that we have a series of checks and balances that check, and quite frankly, are sometimes unfair to popular people. And that's healthy. So, you know, X not running it, you know, of course not. You don't expect the Kremlin, you don't expect the Kremlin state newspaper to run ads for Navalny. I get it.

42:30Kara Swisher:Yeah, that's true.

42:31Scott Galloway:But the other guys, you know, if they're going to be whores for bot farms, probably sponsored by the IRGC and the GRU and the CCP, banning an ad for the Musk film doc just comes across as very much different set of standards for rich people.

42:47Kara Swisher:It'll be interesting to see what the Ellisons do because it's supposed to go on HBO and they will be in control of HBO.

42:52Scott Galloway:Oh, that's really interesting.

42:53Kara Swisher:Yeah, that should be interesting. We'll see. Because they are close. Actually, Larry Ellison and Musk are very close or were.

42:59Scott Galloway:Well, Musk considers Ellison as mentor.

43:02Kara Swisher:Yes, he does. Yes, he does. Yeah. Yeah. And he's he's gotten him out a lot of jams, a lot of jams. Anyway, lastly, this was, I thought, hysterical. I don't know if you saw SNL. I didn't think it was a very strong show, though. Jill and Brunson is so adorable. Saturday Night Live took the AI industry's recent doom warnings as Jane Wick Lane playing Anthropic CEO Dario Amadei this weekend. This clip, I thought this was spot fucking on. Let's see the clip. You know, you know, thanks for having me, Michael. I may have been alarming in my recent interviews, but I want to assure you that if we can pressure lawmakers to create guardrails, we will be able to stop me.

43:41Scott Galloway:Zarya, can you just explain how your company isn't going to kill us?

43:45Kara Swisher:So, so, so, so, so, so, so, that's a really hard question. It went on where he was talking to himself at one point. He said, hey, I'm the devil and I'm its maker. So, Scott, what do you think?

44:02Scott Galloway:I said the comments before. I've never seen two people who are more over their skis. I get the sense. I mean, it's, you know, I get the sense Dario's a good man doing his best. And he woke up and said, I didn't ask to have all of my fingers near a red button that might launch nuclear missiles if I twitch in my sleep. Very Oppenheimer, right? Like, what do I – but Oppenheimer had guardrails.

44:27Kara Swisher:Yeah, he did.

44:28Scott Galloway:Oppenheimer didn't get to decide where and how – where nuclear bombs would be constructed and who they were dropped on. Other people got to make those decisions. Right. And he was really –

44:38Kara Swisher:And he still was agonized over it.

44:39Scott Galloway:And he was really freaked out. And – but this is, again, my go-to analogy. In 1946, would we have let Oppenheimer raise money from Andreessen Horowitz and start selling nuclear devices into Pakistan and Procter & Gamble? These guys are in so far over their head. There's a total lack of regulation, a total lack of adult supervision, and they must feel pressure from every which way but loose. But at the same time, these guys own these pit bulls. These guys own this AR-15. And if they do not secure this shit.

45:13Kara Swisher:Which can be very nice dogs when properly trained.

45:16Scott Galloway:Yeah, pit bulls are wonderful dogs. Let me be clear. It's some of their owners that aren't wonderful people. Anyways, I think, again, I think the whole sentience thing is an attempt, is a smokescreen to say, I am not. I am absolved of guilt. These guys are, in my view, should be on the hook like every other CEO for the harm and the economic upside.

45:36Kara Swisher:You and me both, sister. I mean, I think the only thing I find interesting, and then we have to finish up here, is that they all have different takes. Like Mark Zuckerberg had an interview with Joanna Stern that I recommend you watch because she asked about the creeper glasses and he looked visibly uncomfortable. You know, he had a different take. Modi has one. Altman has one. They're all also, just so you realize, everyone, these are all Silicon Valley people beefing with each other about their businesses. It's not about national security. They could care a fuck about you. This is about their businesses.

46:04Kara Swisher:And that's why they're sitting at that table with Trump. That's why they suck up to him. That's why they're arguing with each other and pretending it's about something else. This is all about the survival of their businesses, including Dario. And they are very much on a very sharp knife edge at this moment for all of it. And the problem is, and I will say this, so much good could come of this in so many ways. And instead, this is the discussion we're having about it, which is not a bad thing. All right. One more quick break. We'll come back for wins and fails.

46:42Kara Swisher:I'm Phoebe Judge, and for more than a decade, I've hosted the podcast Criminal, telling stories about people who've done wrong, been wronged, or gotten caught somewhere in the middle. But while I was starting one of the very first true crime podcasts out there, I was also taking phone calls from my sister, from prison. This fall, I'm going on tour, and I'm telling a story I've never told before. My own. Get tickets at thisiscriminal.com slash live.

47:18Kara Swisher:Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like to go first?

47:22Scott Galloway:Sure. So my fail is this performative steel plant in Iowa.

47:27Kara Swisher:Oh, yeah.

47:28Scott Galloway:That's going to cost taxpayers$15 billion for about 1 ,750 jobs. So that's roughly$9 million per job. You could give every one of these workers lifetime salary, a house and a boat and still have money left over for taxpayers. And again, the broader point is we've genderized politics and Trump, quite frankly, brilliantly took advantage of the fact that many Americans, especially in the Republican administration, feel like the government and industry has been feminized. and we need to de-gender decisions and just say, is it the right decision? A windmill is not feminine. And Trump going to a steel mill and spending$9 million per job is performative testosterone.

48:11Scott Galloway:He loves fire sparks and hard hats. This is, he thinks he grows more chest hair when he goes to a steel mill and announces its opening. The tariffs on steel protect about 80 ,000 mill jobs, but they end up taxing millions of workers at downstream production in the supply chain. Automakers, builders, and appliance makers now have higher costs and they will lose more employees than these tariffs will protect at steel mills. The 2002 Bush steel tariffs, they are estimated to have destroyed a lot more jobs than the entire steel sector gained in employment. It's like the equivalent is chemotherapy that's harder on the patient than the underlying tumor.

48:56Scott Galloway:Is it meant to grow jobs? It doesn't. It destroys jobs such that he can have what he feels is like a Rambo performative masculinity. Steel is about 30 % more expensive than Europe steel and nearly double China's. We haven't made steel great again. We've just made it more expensive.

49:14Kara Swisher:Yeah, this is nuts.

49:15Scott Galloway:So my fail is this performative masculinity that is irrational, economically stupid of opening a steel mill to get one job for$9 million.

49:26Kara Swisher:You're 100 % correct.

49:28Scott Galloway:My win is I always, well, I think young people, I think it's really important to have role models and say, this is how I want to equip myself professionally and personally. And it's okay to change role models or add new ones and really follow people. And I just absolutely adore and think of role models, Timothy Snyder, Ann Applebaum, and Heather Cox Richardson. And Heather and Tim, and I just had Tim on my podcast. I have just such immense respect for people who decide to go become historians, which is generally speaking not a high pay, high impact position. And they are just having such a moment and being, in my view, such great patriots.

50:08Scott Galloway:They are fearless. They are such compelling communicators. I had Tim on this morning, and he really struck me with a couple points that just seemed obvious in retrospect, but I thought were so insightful. He said, if we had spent a fraction of the capital that we have spent on wars the last 30 years on escalating or speedballing the transition to renewable energy, we might not need to have any of these wars. And a lot of the bad actors that we're fighting against or launching their own wars have benefited from the fact that we haven't transitioned to renewables. I thought that was so insightful.

50:43Scott Galloway:And then the other, I thought, really striking insight, and he showed me some data here, and I just hadn't thought of it this way. He said that if we had taken the munitions we've expended on the war in Iran and we'd given them to Ukraine, that the war would already be over. It would have been over.

51:00Kara Swisher:And we would be rebuilding it, and we would be making money from rebuilding it.

51:03Scott Galloway:And when Americans need to know, because I'm not sure all Americans know, because there's, as is often the case, there's minority rule that does not represent American interests right now. Americans actually feel very positive about Ukraine and want to be supportive. We have basically abandoned Ukraine. And when Whitcoff and Kushner go over, folks, they're essentially parroting Sergei Lavrov and Putin's talking points. So if you feel strongly about our support of Ukraine, make sure you speak to your representative and vote for people who have the stones to say we need to be more supportive of Ukraine because we have basically abandoned Ukraine.

51:40Scott Galloway:But coming back, my win is I love historians and people who are fearless and are compelling and are using their platform to, I think, have really powerful impact on the shape of the world right now. It's a really, it's not only an important moment for them, but it's just nice to see people in industries or professions. I mean, could they have imagined one day I will be influencing. No, they're dropping their info.

52:05Kara Swisher:They're dropping their info. It's really, you know, I love a historian too. I ran into Anne at the Atlantic Festival that they had just recently.

52:11Scott Galloway:Oh, she's wonderful. And her husband is a total gangster.

52:14Kara Swisher:She's no, she's like no fucking nonsense. I'm like, how's things going? She goes, we're on the edge of a precipice. And I'm like, oh, okay. I just had a really good piece of bread because they also had this person who made the world the country's best bread. And I was like, the bread was good.

52:29Scott Galloway:And I got the most powerful moment of the UN. Actually, her husband is the foreign minister of Poland and a total gangster. But he basically just stared down the Russians and said, yeah, we're we're ready. Yeah, we're ready, bitch. I mean, it's just like.

52:44Kara Swisher:Yeah. Did you see Iceland going up against Netanyahu? Netanyahu, because the lady from the head of Iceland just like slapped Netanyahu, because he was like insulting the whole crowd as they walked out. And then the head of Iceland was like, yeah, fuck you, buddy. So here's my idea, Kara.

52:59Scott Galloway:the best thing for the world, for global peace, prosperity, humanity, taking down the temperature around the wrist, taking up the temperature on opportunity would be a zero cost agreement that won't happen, but it would be the most powerful thing in terms of a benefit to the world would be the following. And I want to get your reaction. Every democracy, actually every nation in the world says, okay, this has gone too far. Here's an idea. We're all going to sign up for it. Any leader over the age of 72 has to step down within 12 months.

53:35Kara Swisher:Yeah, I love it.

53:36Scott Galloway:What would happen? We'd lose Trump. We'd lose Netanyahu. We'd lose Putin. Like, who over the age of 72 you think is just really good for the world right now? And that's incredibly ageist, and I'm going to stick to it.

53:50Kara Swisher:I would go a little bit older. 75 would be where I'd put it. But I like it. I like it. I think 75

53:55Scott Galloway:As you get older, your -

53:58Kara Swisher:Oh, I'm gone, Scott. I'm telling you.

54:00Scott Galloway:As you get older and more powerful, your self-awareness and your concern for future generation declines and your cognitive ability declines.

54:09Kara Swisher:Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

54:10Scott Galloway:And we need this new - Let me be clear. I'm not on board with a lot of Momdani or AOC's policies, but Momdani, AOC -

54:19Kara Swisher:Viga.

54:20Scott Galloway:Al-Sayed. these guys are generational talents and people of my generation have to recognize the world the people in their 20s and 30s they're going to be around a lot longer and these people these these guys are such they're so talented uh and if we don't have turn at the top we don't have

54:42Kara Swisher:room for these people i love it i love it all right okay i'm gonna get to my window i would agree with you i often tell people older than myself whenever they yammer on about something I'm like, what do you care? You're going to be dead. Like, that's my new— And they always, like, that stops the conversation.

54:56Scott Galloway:Who should get more votes? Someone who's going to be around 10 months or someone who's going to be around 80 years?

55:01Kara Swisher:My sons, my children, your children. Absolutely. We're just going to get on off and go to conferences that I'm not invited to. I'm leaving. I'm still here. When I retire— I'm leaving.

55:13Scott Galloway:I'm going from 14 podcasts. I'm going from 14 podcasts a week to 13.

55:18Kara Swisher:I am telling you, I will be gone. Like, you will not see Hyde nor fucking Haramie after probably 75, but maybe 72.

55:26Scott Galloway:I think we're both going to have a stroke on a plane to some, like, pivot conference in Minnetonka or something.

55:32Kara Swisher:You're the one that goes to the dumb conferences where you all cat around fancy snacks. Okay, my win and fail very quickly. One is the fucking Pope. I love this guy. Oh, yeah, that was great. He took on—the crowds in France were insane. He gave an astonishingly kind and he's so like what I need right now. And I just love everything comes out of his mouth. This guy is like such a powerful figure. And I think I'm very happy he's shown up. And I love that he attracted huge crowds. I love his messages. They're all about kindness. He also wades right into AI. He wades right into modern about war. I just think this is the kind of, and I just agree with it.

56:13Kara Swisher:I just think it's a very kind version of where we need to go. It's a very good roadmap, whether you're Catholic or not. I like voices like this, and I think he can do it, and I'm glad he's doing it. So I would say he was my absolute win. Nancy Mace's Catwoman outfit, I'm not sure if it's a win or a fail. I can't decide. Did you see her in a podcast in a Catwoman outfit?

56:35Scott Galloway:I haven't seen it. I hadn't heard of it, but I already know I endorse it.

56:38Kara Swisher:Okay, that's what I did. So I think it's probably, it looks like she needs some help. But in any case, my fail is this Cornell story, which is getting a lot of attention online. What's really interesting, I saw a movie many years ago called Promising Young Woman, which is stuck. It's by Emerald Fennell. Yeah, very disturbing. And it's an astonishing movie. And it's so upsetting. And literally, I think about it at least once a week. It hit me so hard, that movie. I recommend everybody seeing it. But this situation at Cornell where these guys may or may not, like, look, it's alleged. This woman has now sued them in civil.

57:12Kara Swisher:It looks like they never did any kind of investigation at the time, and they're now reinvestigating it. It's causing a great deal of fervor online. And naming this one group at Cornell, this newspaper, I think it's called The Sun, has done much of the reporting here and named the names of these people. I think they deserve their time in court. I think they seem to have gotten off rather easily, depending on what happened. And it looks like the prosecutors in the area where Cornell is let the campus police do the investigation, which seems they never did an investigation. Now they're doing it. I have to tell you, the rage of women right now is so bubbling under the surface that I think people are going to see some things happening from a voting point of view.

58:01Kara Swisher:Because women never, you know, women have to sort of sit there and take it a lot of times. But this story is enraged so many people I know. And so I just think it needs to be the court. The investigation is being reopened after allegations in the lawsuit. There are texts saying, I'm not going to. Well, I'm going to. It said free pussy upstairs. And these guys apparently drug this young underage woman. But the Tompkins County District Attorney, who did not do his job, will revisit the decision not to pursue criminal charges against seven fraternity members. They need to investigate this. There is a anger growing among women about a lot of this stuff.

58:38Kara Swisher:And I think it needs, it's really, it's really disconcerting on every single level. And again, I would recommend you go watch A Promising Young Woman. It will upset you. It is a mindfuck of a movie. And you should watch it anyway, because it's a really important movie. And that's it. That's what it is. It's not a really happy thing to talk about. But it was, I can't believe they didn't do a normal investigation of this situation. I know there's been fake allegations before and everything else, but I think an investigation should have happened and should happen now.

59:11Scott Galloway:Yeah, look, one of the most wonderful things about college is that we think it's a safe place for our kids. And it needs to be a safe place for men. I've been horrified by some of the hazing incidents I've been reading about in fraternities. That's just unacceptable. And also, it needs to be a safe place for women that in the context where there's a lot of alcohol and a lot of drugs and a lot of partying, young men need to be educated, that they need to err on the side of protection for everybody, always. and that if they don't, they might end up in jail for the rest of their lives or at a minimum kicked out of school.

59:51Scott Galloway:And also what I experienced firsthand with campuses is there's huge incentive for the campuses to try and do what they think is the right thing while kind of minimizing it and sweeping it under the rug. Because quite frankly, this is terrible for the Cornell brand. So the incentives to just sort of say, let's do what we think is right while ensuring it's, quote unquote, not a big deal leads to instances where no, there should be absolutely, regardless of how poorly it reflects on the brand, there should be full transparent investigations. And I think that is going to happen here.

1:00:32Kara Swisher:It is. It's just that this guy, like, they use this, Tompkins County District Attorney, used the campus police investigation. And these guys, what are they like? They're going to look an imbecile with a badge, is my experience.

1:00:45Scott Galloway:I don't think that's fair. I worked with the UCPD at UCLA. UCPD is a level up.

1:00:50Kara Swisher:Yes, a level up. But they shouldn't be doing this investigation. It should be done by authorities and to rely on their investigation.

1:00:57Scott Galloway:Or people with specific domain expertise around this. Correct.

1:01:00Kara Swisher:I can't believe they relied on this. And look, I had some not great ones when I went to Georgetown, but I'm sure there's a lot of very good camps police, but they shouldn't be doing sexual assault investigations. Period. Period. Anyway, I hope this investigation goes well and goes fairly for everyone at the same time. It's a real fail on behalf of Cornell management, and especially when they had two of them write an essay on what they did wrong. And someone said, release the essay files. I think we need to do more than that. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind.

1:01:34Kara Swisher:Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551-PIVOT. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week on ON, I'm speaking with legendary Silicon Valley venture capitalist and Scott Galloway's favorite person, Sir Michael Moritz. His new book, Auslander, Scott, it actually is a really good book, is all about his family members who escaped Nazi Germany and those who died in the Holocaust. We talked about the parallels to modern politics and how powerful people have folded to Trump. Mike's been actually outspoken compared to a lot of Silicon Valley people on the other side.

1:02:03Kara Swisher:Let's listen to a clip. What I've tried to do in the conversations that I had with various people, although I've given up on it because, you know, history is not going to, you know, we'll see what happens, was the number one thing that you want to look for in any leader is character. Number one.

1:02:26Scott Galloway:And I think a lot of, well, I know a lot of people in Silicon Valley held their nose or turned the other way and ignored what they knew. And shame on that. And you ignore character at your peril. I just want to comment on that. I did not have a good professional experience with Sir Michael. Having said that, he has been a powerful voice around anti-Semitism. and I like what Sam Harris said, that if you're wealthy and have people who love you unconditionally, which I know the first, and I assume the former, I assume in the latter with Mike, he is speaking what he believes is truth to power, and I admire that.

1:03:05Kara Swisher:Yeah, it is. It is. It's not just Andrew Smith. He's been standing up in a lot of ways that other people have not. And he also started the SF Standard, a newspaper there, a competing newspaper. Yeah, he bought a media company, right? Yeah, and by the way, it's terrific. I recommend everybody read it. I think he's done a great job. He was a former journalist. Yeah, you can like or not like him, but I have to say he's one of the few. Ron Conway is another one who've been just very true to themselves, and I appreciate it, and not just because I agree with them. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel and get your tickets for our upcoming Pivot Tour at pivottour.com.

1:03:40Kara Swisher:Anyway, we'll be back on Friday.

1:03:43Scott Galloway:Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman. Ernie Intertot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Averia, and Dan Chalon. Nishat Kroos, Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. I'll see you later in the week.