OpenAI Backtracks, Elon's Netflix Boycott, and Instagram Safety Features

25:56So we have this one-two punch of an administration that conflates masculinity and leadership with coarseness and cruelty and algorithms that make a shit ton of money from it. And the result is, if you were to go out today, ice trades and all, and I'm not in any way accepting or diminishing the ugliness of these ice trades, but if you go out in Portland, if you go out in Parsippany, New Jersey, or you go out in Provincetown, you're generally going to find Americans from all political spectrums are generally speaking really lovely people. No, no. You're right. I would agree. I would agree with you.

26:38I just think one of the issues is this is an attempt to divide and create anger. And it works. And I think what's really nice is to see everyone coming around to something you and I have been going on about forever. You saw Macron talk about social media. You talked, you see everyone is now on this bandwagon. And we, these people should not be trusted with our information or decision making about our society. It's enough with them deciding what we should do. Look, we're willing addicts to these people, but is heroin. And it will not end well if we don't take some control of this. And what the Trump administration has done to take control is to get bribes from them.

27:16And that's what they are, these payouts. And let them do whatever they want. They need to be drastically regulated in many, many ways. Or taxed. Either way, you know, they need to be pulled back. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, OpenAI does an about-face on its copyright policy for Sora.

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31:27Scott, we're back with more news. OpenAI has backtracked and will give copyright holders more control over how their characters are used in Sora, its new AI video generation app. Gosh, thanks a lot, Sam. As a reminder, leading up to the launch, the company has said copyright holders would have to opt out of having their material appear in the videos. Scott made excellent points last week. CEO Sam Altman said the company would have to, quote, somehow make money from the app to offset costs. Well, don't make it if you can't make money, Sam. And would try to share some of the revenue with rights holders who opt in.

32:01Try to share? Thanks. Sora is a top of free app in Apple's App Store at the time of the taping. It's an interesting app. By the way, OpenAI and chip designer AMD have announced a multi-billion dollar partnership to collaborate on AI data centers. This is Lisa Su. I just recently interviewed her, actually. But the fact of getting away with anything they want is just they still think that. And by the way, OpenAI's Dev Day will be happening after we tape today. We'll talk about that more on Friday. But thoughts on this turnabout? I mean, they must have heard holy hell from everybody. That's my assumption.

32:33Well, I've hired hackers and AI engineers to reverse engineer everything that OpenAI spent money on. I'm calling it closed AI because they have not opted out. They have not opted out. I like that. I mean, what? I like that. And by the way, I've disassembled my iPhone. I found Foxconn in China and I found assemblers because Tim Cook has not opted out. He hasn't opted out. I mean, that is just so fucking ridiculous. Fucking shoplifters. And the notion that, I mean, if they were really, Adobe did this the right way. Adobe basically started a generative AI, a design AI, whatever they're called, and said, everything on here, we've developed agreements with the initial IP creators.

33:20And it's probably not as complete as a Wild West, but you know everything here, the people have agreed to license it to us. and this is a moment in time where absolutely they should hit back hard but unfortunately, the smart economic decision is just to steal from people but I think this is absolutely a moment to push back. The other thing I got additional hate from is I've been getting a lot of hate this week or I'm very sensitive, I don't know, maybe it's the Xanax speaking, not sure. Anyways, I put out a thing showing a graph. LA is basically turning into the next Detroit with better weather.

34:03Yeah, I sent you that story, yeah, in the Times. What the Japanese did to Detroit, essentially, Netflix and now AI and Allison. Well, and the strike, which you had been very vocal about the strike, FYI, saying this is going to cause untold damage. So it was the strike, Netflix, and AI. Yeah, I won't even go there. literally the stupidest people in corporate America ever elected to position as the WGA, who decided, I know, let's transfer wealth from actors and workers to Netflix and make things worse for us and keep people out of work for five months such they can come back with no negotiating leverage.

34:44Anyways, if you've seen the numbers, LA has had a vibrant, creative middle class driven by Hollywood. And it's not, people think it's Bryan Cranston or Tom Cruise. It's not. It's caterers. It's makeup artists. It's lighters. It's gaffers. It's sound people. People making 80 to 250 grand a year as animators, as costume designers. And it's all being cleaned out. First by Netflix, who moved the majority of the production overseas or to the places with the biggest tax credits. That's economic arbitrage based on geography. That would be Atlanta, New Jersey. Vancouver, Budapest. The Marvel films. Can you think of anything more American than the Marvel films?

35:28Do you know where they're being filmed? Budapest. Pinewood Studios outside of England. London too. Yep. So, okay, you can't get in the way of that. It's important geographies. Wait to see what AI does to these guys, right? Because all of a sudden, I mean. Costumers. All these guys. So this is LA, San Francisco, the transfer of wealth. There's literally a sucking sign of capital and opportunity from LA to San Francisco right now. And that is those 3 ,400 people that worked on, just as Bezos said, your margin is my opportunity. The credits in movies are AI's opportunity right now. They're looking at that and thinking, oh my gosh, it's going to be fun.

36:13And having said that, I went and saw last night one battle after the other with Leonardo DiCaprio. And? I was really mixed on it. These guys, Benicio del Toro and Leonardo DiCaprio and his daughter, the woman who plays his daughter, who's just so beautiful and such a good actress. There's so much talent in it. You can't kind of turn your eyes away from the screen. but it felt to me like an independent movie that if it didn't had three superstars and it could have done a half a million dollars after premiering at sundance to applause it didn't feel like quite frankly i thought it's i think it's hugely overrated yeah yeah you were looking forward to that i was really excited about it i didn't want to go yeah but it's just so strange i don't know if it's i'm aging out i think literally the big screen is just going to go away i think it's going to be kind of an event thing like going ice skating a roller you know who did well this weekend.

37:05We didn't talk about her album just because I was being respectful, but guess who killed it at the box office? Who killed it? Taylor Swift is the number one box office hit with her. She did a deal with AMC. They are raking in the fucking dough. Thank you. Go, Taylor. I'm happy for her. Showgirl. She's so good. Come on, just say she's good. She's an inspiring young woman I'm happy for. But I'm just saying, that's who killed it at the box office this weekend. I can't believe you haven't listened to her. If I've had a nickel for her Every time I've heard that. I'm just saying. There's a penis song in this album, but go ahead.

37:39Anyways, name one thing Taylor Swift doesn't have in her purse. What? Her boyfriend's phone number. Oh, you're funny. She's getting married. She's happy ending for Taylor Swift. By the way, the album is excellent, and it's killing it. She's killing it. I'm just saying, go back to the box office. Go ahead. Go ahead. So DiCaprio fails, but Taylor kills it. Go ahead. I just think movies are becoming something like ice skating a Rockefeller Center. You'll do it every couple of years with your kids. Events. Events is right. It's just not. And I remember thinking, or if I become so extremely online, I can't sit still for 150 minutes.

38:17But there's definitely something very, Governor Newsom either needs, a couple of things need to happen. I do think Governor Newsom needs to supersize the film tax credit or the motion picture tax credit for California. He just did to 750. It was sort of a mini size. Yeah, mixed. It's 750 million bucks. For an economy that big, I don't know. For me, if I were him, and I don't know if you could do this, some sort of tax above a certain amount, i.e. AI, that funds the creative community in California, because I do think the creative community in LA is a really valuable part of that fabric. And so LA, which hasn't been competitive with other regions for 10 or 15 years, is really suffering.

38:57And I'm telling you, they got to call Barry Diller. They got to get lawyers. They have got to go after these guys early and often, because the fact that the head of OpenAI would even suggest people need to opt out, they need to opt. So let me get this. There's a house next to me. They look rich. Do they need to purposely opt out of me breaking in and stealing their shit? Do they need to say to me, no, do not come over and take our shit? I mean, that gives you insight into the mentality of these folks. The president basically says they can molest the other 490 companies of the S &P 500 of anything they want, and they are protected.

39:38Because what they've decided is, what he's decided is, the people who come meet with me who I adore, who might be trillionaires, and who can turn up or down the algorithms to get me reelected. And I think they will want to get me reelected if they see I let them run unfettered and become worth$400 billion instead of$300. he's this and everybody else i was at this one you know this quote unquote big conference of shogun named a head of a huge athletic brand stood up and said i'm fucked i can't figure out we've been diversifying out of china we we we take our products to vietnam and malaysia and then we find out after rerouting our supply chain that vietnam's getting hit hard with these new tariffs And someone stood up and said, I can coach you around how to communicate with the White House.

40:27And a very, very intelligent journalist said, this is where America is? Really rich people have to coach less rich people on how to get favors from the White House? That's right. That's exactly where we are. That's where we are? Yep. That's exactly where we are. Let me just say one more. The numbers are really interesting. so Dwayne Johnson also opened a movie called Smashing Machine it's six million dollars is all he made and Showgirl which was a cinematic experience it was not a concert film it wasn't a doc it was just a promotional stunt took in 46 million dollars across the globe and she gets a whole chunk of that so I mean things are at you have to have events the ways to supersede these people who are stealing your stuff or the White House that is trying to fuck you by doing favors is a really bad economic environment unless you have an event or something so good that people or a fan base so big that it's going to make you money.

41:30It's really something. It really is. Listen, I had a friend who's like, I want to get on the TikTok deal. And after telling me how dirty it was, it's like, I still want to get in on it. I would have asked. I said the same thing at this conference, I raised my hand and said, can you give me advice on how democratic professors can invest in this TikTok deal? How do I get in on TikTok at 60 % off? I'm in. Yeah, exactly. This guy was like, it's dirty, dirty, dirty. I want in. Oh, a hundred percent. Which is gross. I don't want to disarm unilaterally, but what's happening. There's, I mean, Hollywood is being so reshaped and I was thinking about, I was adding up our numbers because I love to talk about how awesome we are.

42:08We get 400 ,000 downloads after a month. We have 70 % of the core demographic. The people are still in their mating years and spending money on stupid shit. So that's 280 ,000 people in the core demographic. Do you know what CNN primetime gets in the core demographic on average? Like 126 ,000. 87 ,000. Yes. We're getting triple the number of people in the core demographic. Granted, it's only for an hour and 10 minutes and they're on for four hours. But what do you think the cost of the means of production is for four hours of primetime CNN. We're not nearly as good looking. We don't have nearly as good a makeup.

42:42The sets aren't as good. Fine. We are as good looking. But this is, you are going to see cable news, cable news and the big screen, quote unquote TV, are going to be companies owned by billionaires. And I keep meeting documentary filmmakers and I'm like, oh, that means your husband's rich, which does not go over well. It means you're married to someone very wealthy. But the big screen going away, and I do think that there is something, there is a social need. The middle-class creative community in Southern California is a really valuable, important part. They are. They've made so much magic. Just as we bailed out the automobile companies, I think we should be thinking about a thoughtful means of transferring some capital back from Northern California to Southern California.

43:37You know they're not going to do that. They're not going to do that. Well, they don't have political power. David Zaslav and Bob Iger aren't giving the rub and tug to President Trump. Not enough. They're not invited. All he does is get angry at him and they bend over and give him 14 million bucks. Well, we'll see. All right, let's go on a quick break. And when we come back, Elon's Netflix boycott.

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45:57Scott, we're back with more news. Let's talk about what Elon has been up to lately. First off, Netflix stock is down 4 % in the last five days at time of taping after Elon urged followers to cancel subscriptions over an animated show that features a trans character. The show Dead End Paranormal Park was canceled in 2023 after two seasons. You know, again, it was also over the threat by Trump to tax, to tariff movies. But, you know, he's carrying on his little boycotts all over the place. Secondly, meanwhile, a newly unveiled testimony revealed that SpaceX took money from Chinese investors despite having close ties to the U.S.

46:35military. A major SpaceX investor said in a deposition that some of the Chinese investors are listed as shareholders. In March, ProPublica reported that SpaceX allows Chinese investors to buy a stake in the company as long as the funds are rooted through offshore hubs. They also, one of the things that I want to add, and these are three different things. SpaceX acquisition of telecom EchoStars Spectrum rights. A recent Washington Post opinion piece highlights how the deal could change between state and citizen. The buy allows for direct satellite to smartphone connectivity without terrestrial infrastructure.

47:06With the acquisition, SpaceX now controls enough spectrum to supply commercial mobile services globally. They're very good at that, as you have pointed out. So start with the first one, the trans thing. I just think he's a terrible person and he should call and apologize to his daughter. He's just a terrible person and a terrible parent. And he's obsessed with trans issues in a way that makes J.K. Rowling look reasonable. The second one, of course, he's taking money from Chinese investors because, well. And the last one, I think, is a really important story. But go ahead. You go first. Well, I don't remember the last one, but you know how I feel about this.

47:44I think that I opt for the material and psychological well-being of Americans above almost everything else. and I like taking capital from almost anybody. And as long as you put it in place that they can't control stuff, I think the Americans don't realize the connection between their prosperity and the fact that our cost of capital, you can't get a mortgage in Argentina. There's no such thing as a mortgage market in Argentina. You can't buy a house. So how many people can buy a house when you can't borrow to buy a house because there's no capital flowing into Argentina? So I'm kind of like cash their check, put in safeguards such that they can't control the media.

48:21But I like the fact that we have huge capital inflows. And I find that a lot of times people on the left are not focused enough on our economic well-being and want a virtue signal. Having said that, let's go to the, one of the greatest exports, unfortunately now, not the greatest, the biggest exports of the United States is American citizens like Elon Musk exporting political division. there was a rally here in the UK and Elon Musk shows up I want Britain to be great again it's like Jesus Christ we're exporting this bullshit I think the commercial opportunity the best selling the Chevrolet Equinox EV is the third best selling if I were Chevrolet I would be making light of this and say buy any Chevrolet EV free lifetime subscription to Netflix I would just I would I like targeted economic strikes.

49:17I'm a fan of it. Now over political issues. I just think that's I'm well, that's what he says he's doing, I assume. Right. More power. You know, fine. I don't believe I don't believe in why he's doing it. But I think that Chevrolet and Netflix should strike back. I think Ted Sermano should say we're offering free Netflix for anyone who buys these the other seven bestselling EVs. He's smarter than that. He's not going to weigh into this. He's just going to ignore it. Because I'll tell you one thing. People may love their Tesla. They love their Netflix more. They do. I mean, it's like. I do love my Netflix.

49:51Oh, it's fantastic. I do love my Netflix. It's fantastic. Unfortunately, I've been subject to Wednesday. God, that's a lot. A lot of talent in that. Yeah. A lot of talent in Wednesday. Anyways, I don't. I think that. Also, I think for the most part, Elon Musk has only been in the news like every 48 hours. and I think he hates that. So I think this goes nowhere. I think this is a bit of a non-event. Yeah. And what about the Echo Star thing? That to me was really interesting, the ability to offer cell phones. Big deal, I think. It strikes me that I would hate to be Verizon or AT &T right now. So I'm an investor in Andrew Yang's MB &O, Noble Mobile.

50:32But basically, essentially, since the cost to build out, and this is good, I think this is good regulation, The cost to build out a cellular network and broadband is so expensive that these companies convinced regulators to say there's going to be a small number of them. And they said, fine. But they said, if there's only going to be two or three national networks, you have to be able to lease them out at competitive rates to MB &O. So Mint Mobile is basically running the same network that Andrew is at Noble Mobile. and they come up with different features, different, like Andrew's company is saying, we'll give you money back if you're not on your phone, like get off your phone.

51:14And I think that's the way to do regulation. I would hate to be AT &T and Verizon right now because whether it's WhatsApp, which is now I think the largest telco in the world, and the ability of new technologies to communicate kind of seamlessly using ubiquitous technology and not, I mean, my AT &T bill, I'm not exaggerating here. My AT &T bill each month, and I'm switching to Noble next week. Of course, I've got to find someone young to help me actually figure out how to switch my phone servers. It's four to six. I know. Well, here I am. I'll do it. Here I am. Call me. I'm scared of my microwave.

51:54Anyways, it's$400 to$600 a month. I'm spending$400 to$600 a month on AT &T. Yeah. And Andrew called me and said, I think we can get you down. I have to get the international plan and all that. He thinks, I think I can get it down to 70 or 80 bucks. And by the way, it's going to rest on the same network. Well, actually, it'll rest on the T-Mobile network, not the AT &T network. So AT &T and Verizon have been terrible performing stocks because they have a cost infrastructure and overhead that just doesn't recognize what's happened in that. I'm looking at it, too, because I have all my kids on mine, and it's a lot of money.

52:28It's a lot of fucking money. Like, it really is. I'm like, what am I paying? Exactly. There's a huge, speaking of opportunity, there's a huge opportunity. I think this is a really smart thing. The thing is, it's attached to Elon again. But then Starlink does really well, even though it's attached to Elon, because it's a superior product. And Tesla is no longer a superior product, is the issue. And when you have a choice, you go with the one who doesn't irritate you hugely. But you're right. You're right. This is interesting. One quick thing I think we have to talk about Instagram safety measures for kids are woefully inadequate according to a new report from former Meta whistleblower along with non-profit groups.

53:04The report evaluated 47 of Meta's 53 safety features for teens and found a majority were no longer available or they were ineffective. Meta has called the report misleading and dangerously speculative. You know, I'm going to hear from them after we talk about this, but I think it goes to the heart of what Scott and I talk about is they're going to make things safe for kids. It's almost impossible to make them safe for kids, but from a cost perspective, they cannot. There's so many holes in all these things that it's, I think it's an impossible thing. And as Scott and I have talked about, they should not be serving young people.

53:40They have no responsibility. They've shown themselves not to have responsibility. And even when they're trying, it's hard to do. So I just, it creates a really bad situation for young people on these social media networks, which are pound for pound negative for our kids. They're not very positive for us either. In some cases, they are, to be fair. Your thoughts about their ability to make things safe for young people? To me, this is pretty simple. No one under the age of 16 should be allowed on a social media platform. And if we find out that your age gating isn't... I can be talking about our pivot tour, and I get served an ad for our pivot tour, but they claim they can't age gate.

54:23No one under the age of 16 on a social media platform, no one under the age of 18 can engage in a synthetic relationship. Full stop. Let's not, no more safety protocols, no more technology, no more parental controls. These things are, we age gate alcohol, pornography, the military, motorcycles, R-rated content. The damage these things have done and the unfortunate thing is that you say, well, they come up with the argument around parenting. Well, this is about good parenting. You don't want your kids on screens, don't let them on it. Here's the problem. If you take your kid off of Snap and every other kid is still on Snap, that kid actually ends up more depressed because he's isolated.

55:02Unless this is collective action from the government or from schools, it's not going to work. And there's just evidence everywhere showing that when social went on mobile, things got worse for teens. So this is an easy one. If we outlawed, if we made it such that kids, I mean, the reality is kids smoking, if you quit smoking by the time you're 30, your rates of cancer are the same as someone who never smoked. But the problem is you can get addicted. A 15-year-old smoking cigarettes, that is less dangerous than a 15-year-old in my view on Instagram. And so, all right, look what we did to cigarettes.

55:42Why is it taking us so long with social? And typically, I think it's about to happen, and it is happening, I think, largely because of Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation. But generally speaking, society takes 20 years. It took us 20 years with cigarettes. It took us 20 years with opiates. And it feels like the iPhone has taken us about 20 years. But I think it's happening. But all this nonsense around parental controls and parenting. No, no, no. Easy. Under the age of 16, no social media. Under the age of 18, no synthetic relationships. Yeah, they're always going to get caught out on these things.

56:15And parental controls, I am really good at it, and they're not good. And let me say, there was a great piece actually on CBS this morning on schools without phones. They are happier. They are happier. Everyone's happier without them. Actually, one of my sons, I'm not going to say which one, wrote me and was being a little crazy on the phone about some topics. And And he wrote me a little bit later. He texted me. He goes, you know, I'm on this phone too much. It's making me crazy. And I was like, yes, thank you. Like he self-diagnosed himself and he's older, but it got him all going, right? It got him all like, ugh, like that kind of thing.

56:52And so you can't help but doom scroll and be angry. And it happens to all of us, including me. I actually have, interestingly enough, my threads is so full of like cooking and ASMR that I hardly ever see news on it, which is interesting, which I like, right? It's actually very calming and I don't ever see angry stuff. But Scott and I are pretty clear on this. And by the way, Jonathan Haidt's book is, I think, is critically important to this. But your book, we'll be talking about a lot on the tour. So we'll be talking about these topics. Notes on being a man, is that correct? Notes on being a man.

57:28Thanks for that. Yeah. That's something I remember. We'll be talking. It's during Scott's debut week, and we hope to get it to the number one on the New York Times bestseller list with our tour and everything else. Kira, Kira, I don't give in to the commercial metrics of a modern day. I still want to. It's my personal goal. I just hope that people find some reward in it. Well, I'm going to get you on to the New York Times bestseller list. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

57:59Scott, we're hitting the road, bringing Pivot Live to the people. Seven cities, Toronto, Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and L.A., of course. You went to Oasis, you went to Beyoncé, you saw the remake of Wizard of Oz and The Sphere. All those suck compared to the Pivot Tour. This is the biggest tour. Same people that are organizing our tour that organized Taylor Swift's tour. They are much more excited about our tour. All right. That's enough, Grandpa. It's going to be so good. And we're bringing our brand of whatever we do to the people. And we're excited to meet our fans. We love our fans.

58:38For tickets, head to pivottour.com. See you there.

58:48The smart home has been a good idea for decades. Just that you can control your windows and your doors and your floors and your appliances. and everything and just have everything work together. It's a good idea. It's just never been possible. But now, this week, we got some new gadgets and some new software from both Amazon and Google that suggest that if we're not getting there, we're at least getting close. This week on The Vergecast, we talk about all of that, plus what it's like to have a TV that won't stop showing you ads. All that on The Vergecast, wherever you get podcasts.

59:27Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I just wanted to try and wrap a win and fail into discussing a little bit about Trump's quote-unquote compact that offers preferential treatment to compliant colleges. First off, that's a bit of a misnomer. What they're threatening to do is take away federal funding from universities that don't sort of sign up to certain protocols. and I'll go through each of them just sort of quickly and provide a viewpoint. The first is I think I depart a little bit from some of the responses from the last, and that is I do think, generally speaking, that if the federal government is going to give you billions of dollars, they should have input.

1:00:11However, that input needs to be discussed in Congress and passed as laws that apply to all colleges because at a minimum in three years and two months, a lot of this shit just might be reversed. So this is just darting back and forth trying to figure out what to do. Also, there's a lot of evidence showing that the funding that these universities get for research has been arguably the best investment in the history of the planet around pharmaceuticals and technology. But anyways, having said that, some of the things they want to do, they want to make admissions, basically gender, ethnicity, race, and political view blind.

1:00:47And I don't have a problem with that because basically the Supreme Court has already said that's what it has to be. I do believe in affirmative action, but I believe it should be based on income, not based on any observable characteristic or sexual orientation. to marketplace of ideas and civil discourse. They're forcing them to commit to fostering a vibrant marketplace of ideas on campus, requiring an intellectually open campus environment with a broad spectrum of ideological viewpoints present and no single ideology dominant, both along political and other relevant lines. I want to acknowledge that universities have done a really poor job of fomenting and supporting ideological diversity.

1:01:34Having said that, I don't see how you legislate. Any attempt to legislate it really is thought control. And just as the cops, police forces, and the military probably lean conservative, universities are always going to lean progressive. That's just the way it is. Now, should 90 plus percent of your faculty be Democrats, that probably says you need to broaden the spectrum a little bit. I've also seen some bullying on campus where anything outside a certain narrative is really frowned upon. But I don't see how you implement this sort of thought control. Non-discrimination in hiring, institutions will not be allowed to consider factors such as sex, ethnicity, race, national origin, disability, or religion.

1:02:15I'm quite frankly, I'm comfortable with that. I think that universities, what I've seen in terms of promotions and faculty, is that it is not, it is not strict. It's mostly merit, but a lot of times it's not merit. But again, there's a better solution here. And the solution, quite frankly, would be getting rid of tenure, because the biggest problem is we don't have enough room for young faculty to come up through the ranks because old inefficient faculty will not leave. Student learning, universities must commit to combating grade inflation. I don't even know what that means. Student equality, institutions must commit to defining and otherwise interpreting male, female, women, and men.

1:02:58You know, people ask me all the time if I'm Jewish, because they say you're an atheist, and I say I'm Jewish. And I'm like, well, you're bar mitzvahed? No. And they say, well, are you really Jewish? I'm like, well, I get to present as whatever the fuck I want. And my view is anyone, if you want to present, people should be able to just present as they want. So I don't understand why, what the big deal is around not letting people, I've always said with respect to pronouns, I do think it's a little bit stupid, but if you want me to call you they, I have no problem with that. It's not a big give.

1:03:29I'll be just fine. You're not infringing on my rights. Then the big one, the one that bothers me the most is that foreign entanglements, one of the conditions is that the compact requires no more than 15 % of the university's undergraduate student population basically shall be foreigners. Okay, that actually won't have that much effect at the undergraduate level because most universities are not above 15%. It will have a huge impact at the graduate schools where we get a lot. And this is so contrary to everything they're trying to do because the ultimate luxury item in the world is not a Rolex watch.

1:04:07It's not a Ferrari. It's sending your kids to an elite university where you will pay no joke between housing and tuition, a half a million dollars into the American economy to send your kid to a foreign university, an American university, where he or she will love America and go back and create connective tissue between us and foreign nations. And at 90 points plus of gross margin, this is the ultimate high margin export. And our ability, just as I was saying, I love the idea of foreign capital coming into the US. I love the idea of human capital coming into the US. And then the final one is they've said they can't raise their prices for five years.

1:04:46I hate price controls from Mom Domi. I hate price controls from Trump. A lot of this, in my opinion, gets at the right idea. But as always, it is the wrong execution with a secretary of education who ran a fucking wrestling league. If you want to bring prices down, you break the cartel. For example, early decision should not be allowed because if someone goes ED in hopes of getting a higher chance of being admitted, once they're admitted, they have no ability to shop around and shop for prices. Universities should not be raising their tuitions in lockstep. Universities should not be sharing information on financial aid because all they're doing is transferring leverage from the consumer, the parents and the kids, such that they can't shop around and get the best price.

1:05:33If you are not growing your freshman class faster than in population growth, you lose your tax-free status because you're no longer a public servant, you're a hedge fund with a class. There are easier ways, better ways, more competitive ways to get at bringing the prices down than price caps. We want as many as full freight paying foreign students as possible. This is one of the highest margin exports we have. And the idea of thought control, it just goes to weird places. And by the way, if this isn't done through Congress, guess what? President Moore, President Newsom, President Bashir, they're just going to dial all this shit back.

1:06:14Right, exactly. It's useless. It's useless. And it's such, this is their shot, I think. What is, what is your, is that your win and fail? Yeah, I just, I wrapped them, I wrapped them all into one. Okay, all right. Okay, I have two. Obviously, speaking of thought control, I think my fail is watching, watching what OpenAI did here with this back and forth on copyright. What a mess. What a ridiculous thievery. I'm sorry, I accused Facebook of it. I've accused Google of it. Same thing. This is just ridiculous. You respect copyright. You do not try to build a business of other people's things and then act like it's no big deal.

1:06:48It is a big deal. You're stealing other people's things and the things that are most attractive on your site are copyrighted material that you didn't make. If you want to make new things, good for you. That's great. But otherwise, you're thieves. As Walt Mossberg says again and again, they were rapacious information thieves. You don't own this. Get your dirty mitts off of it or pay the people who made it in the first place. You're killing people's jobs. you're also not going to take their seed corn at the same time. And I hope there's all kinds of lawsuits to do so. And fortunately, people have to sue, and that puts them on their back feet, especially when their industries are dying.

1:07:24For my win, obviously, Taylor Swift. I would recommend watching the Fate of Ophelia official music video. It's fantastic. It's a really great album. I know a lot of white guys are like, okay, it's really great, but. All the reviews are like, all the guys. Identity politics, all the white guys. No, it's ridiculous. They write the same review. They're like, this woman is spectacular. And yet, and yet, they can't possibly just give her a win. And by the way,$46 million at the box office. That's all I have to say. And in that reign of winning, I also love this guy. There's two things. One is the Pope, fantastic, winner, is this YouTube greeter guy named Troy Hawk who goes around and compliments people and he's built a huge following.

1:08:06I would recommend you watching him. If I had ankles like that, they would also be on full display. You know what I'm talking about. I love your shades. You're like a benign motorcycle cop. And I like the way that you're embracing unlikely concepts and conversations seamlessly, just jumping on board my train. Two-two. It is so enjoyable. This is where social media shines, where people like this are there, like whether it's Taylor Swift providing great content, whether it's the YouTube festival greeter guy, whether it's the Pope. Let me tell you, there's a quote I'm going to read to you, Scott Galloway, that is very, it's probably a little over your head.

1:08:42But I'm going to read it anyway. There is not any advantage to be won from grim lamentation. That's from Homer. Let's not be grim lamentators here, guys. I don't think that's a word. Make things win at the box office. Is that something you talk about at your favorite bar in D.C.? No. I'm just saying, don't be fucking grim about it. This ice, people fight back. Don't sit around in gym school. How do we go from Taylor Swift to ICE? What are we doing here? I am just saying, make things that matter, that people buy, that do well economically. Say things that are lovely to people, make them feel better.

1:09:17Win by hope. That's all I'm saying. Win by being great. That's what I would say. Win by being great. Word, sister. Word. Word, sister. No lamentation. We are not going to do that. These ICE people, fuck them. Let's figure out a way to win. It reminds me of my favorite poem. There once was a girl from Nantucket. Oh, wait, never mind. Never mind. Grim lamentation. We shall not have it. I noticed you didn't mention your former firm getting dumped by Cracker Bar. Oh, yeah. That was your firm. I forgot about that. Profit, right? I forgot about that. Yeah. Well, I can't resist. Very quickly. Tell the story rather quickly.

1:09:54I went to work at Morgan Stanley, hated it, and they hated me. I did okay there. So I went back to business school. Business school is for the elite and the aimless. So my second year, I took this course called Brand Strategy with David Auker. Changed my life. And I decided in my second year of business school to start a business called Profit Brand Strategy. And was there for 10 years. Sold my steak. Very proud of it. It's now, I think, 600 or 700 people. And it ends up they were the brand strategy firm that recommended the logo change. And now they're the sacrificial lamb. They just got fired.

1:10:24They got fired. By Cracker Barrel. Because how does a logo become politicized? I'm not entirely. I don't know what happened there. But everyone was emailing me. So that guy was based on you, the Cracker Barrel guy, I guess. Yeah, it was clearly a nod to me. I'm like, at that firm, I'm like Trotsky. The CEO was a difficult person. And basically, my name shall not be mentioned at Profit anymore. They had a 30-year, get this, they had a 20-year reunion, and then they didn't invite me. Oh, that's so good. Well, I blame it all on you. Yeah. Anyway. 26. I started it when I was 23. And now it's Cracker Barrel.

1:11:01Cracker Barrel. Now it's been fired by Cracker Barrel, which is a unique designation for a company. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your question about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. And reminder, we're going on tour. We're going to be in Toronto. Sold out. Toronto. Toronto. Toronto. Toronto. Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and L.A. Visit pivottour.com for tickets. Our tickets are being scalped. They went for$65. Now they're going for$250. Scalp. Let's stay away from scalpers and third-party sellers.

1:11:37We should have added more nights in certain cities. It's Canadian, so it's like$8. We're not fans of scalpers, but we're going to sell out. We are going to sell out, so buy soon. And elsewhere in the Kara and Scott universe, this week on On With Kara Swisher, I spoke with makeup mogul Bobby Brown. Let's listen to a clip where she talks about the running of her company. I used to interview every single person, you know, not every person, but most of the people I would interview. And when all of a sudden these people started showing up and like, hi, I'm your new head of international. Hi, I'm this.

1:12:09And I'm like, excuse me? I didn't meet them. Well, we think they're going to be the best for the brand. We think this, we think this. So I wasn't included in what to me was important, which, you know, was running and growing the brand. And when I left, it was a billion dollars. It was a growing, growing brand. She sold her company to Estee Lauder and then eventually, after decades, lost control of it and then started Jones Road. She's a really interesting entrepreneur. It's a great discussion. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

1:12:44We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd interviewed this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Rivera, and Dan Chalon. The Shark Carra is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. I'll see you later in the week.

1:13:16Thank you.