Starmer Resigns, Reflecting Pool Fiasco, and Amazon Dumps OpenAI Movie

6:26Scott Galloway:Yeah, but if you look at, I mean, podcasting, it went from kind of these dramas like serials and interesting, you know, scripted podcasting. Then it went to the interview, the Rogans of the world. Then it's kind of gone to, I think, more like the commentators or analysts. And I think the next place is proprietary data sets and interpreting them. Actually, I'm parroting this intelligent woman's comment on a reel. I've got to find out who she is and credited.

6:52Kara Swisher:All right, okay, all right. Well, you know, our next act is going to be Unnatural Acts. That's what I think we should do. I think we should do OnlyFans.

7:00Scott Galloway:I'm game. You had me at Unnatural Acts. I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm in.

7:04Kara Swisher:But we've got a lot to get to today. There's so much going on, including Green Watergate. Get it? Green Watergate. I told you this thing would blow up. President Trump says it will be, he said it will begin fixing the seriously vandalized reflecting pool, vandalized by him. Trump is claiming without evidence, he's lying, that vandals cut a 250-foot gash in the pool's new lining and poured corrosive and destructive chemicals into the water. This is nonsense. There's cameras everywhere in Washington, just so you know. He said multiple people have been arrested tied to the alleged destruction. This is just nonsense.

7:35Kara Swisher:One of them was a former Olympian who was accused by the Park Police of destroying government prostitutes. says you reach down to touch a strip of peeling paint. I was down there, Scott, it was peeling. Nobody was touching it. Everyone was sort of shocked and amazed by how grotesque it was. Because, you know, you go down there, I've gone down there quite a bit, and I've never really noticed the skiminess of it. And it really is, it's green, all this paint's peeling off. So he's lying. And Trump, of course, should be accused of vandalizing a lot of Washington, whether it was the East Wing or the grass in front of the White House for his party.

8:13Kara Swisher:You know, it's just ridiculous. But it's taking on a life of its own. It really is in terms of a metaphorical thing. Or maybe you don't think that.

8:20Scott Galloway:No, I mean, the president is caught between two straits of water. And I personally, I think this is kind of a non-story. America's turning 250 and we've managed to turn a reflecting pool into a culture war. I just, for God's sakes, just fix it and let's move on. I don't, I kind of, you know, they're lying and saying that it's sabotage and vandalism. It isn't. It's incompetence. It's a government project turning into another government project. And the Democrats love to talk about, I think we have bigger fish to fry.

8:53Kara Swisher:I would agree, but I don't think it's a bad, I think people get it in a second. Because it's, again, as I told you, it's a symbol. And it's also the guy who did it is another piece of grift. And it looks incompetent. It looks incompetent. And, you know, one of the jokes online was that, you know, Washington is now a scar after he took over on the Lion King. But there is more to that because then you link it, I think, with Iran, too, which continues to be like a problem. Like here's, you know, they keep going back and forth. And that is the real problem. It is. But it's symbolic of just complete idiocy, like really stupid.

9:29Kara Swisher:but we'll get to some other stupid things coming up. But talk a little bit. I noticed you were talking about a lot online the MOU, which the Iranians seem to have us by the short hairs. That's what it feels like to me. I don't know about you. But they're not doing anything. They're just dragging us on, I guess, and being rude to J.D. Vance, which I completely think they should be.

9:53Scott Galloway:Trump has delivered on his promise of unconditional surrender. The problem is we're the ones unconditionally surrendering. It is insane. Anyone who can do math, anyone who understands a memo of understanding, anyone who can look at their activities, in my mind, it is just so incredibly clear and tragic what is going on. The IRGC recognizes he's left. The midterms are coming up. It is a very unpopular war. He got no support from the public, from Congress, from other nations. He underestimated the resilience of the missile systems. He has handed them something more powerful than a nuclear weapon, and that is an ability to choke the carotid artery of the global economy in the Strait of Hormuz.

10:42Scott Galloway:They know we are out. And all they have to do is operate in between is delay and obfuscation. It's just delay. Every day that goes back, it's less likely we're going to go back in with military action. So they just have to operate.

11:27having about as long a presidential run as Senator Gillibrand, is that we are going to

11:31Scott Galloway:look back on this and recognize that one of the greatest acts of diplomacy was the JCPOA.

11:37Kara Swisher:Right. And Obama's saying so. He's doing a lot of press right now around it, by the way, the comparative.

11:43Scott Galloway:We had Russia and China sign, or they were co-stignatures of the agreement. We can't get Israel to sign this agreement, much less European nations. We had limits at 3.7 enrichment. They're already at 60. Very little money. There's no constraints around nuclear enrichment in the agreement. He keeps saying all these bullshit threats. We'll open the Strait of Hormuz. We'll get you.

12:07Kara Swisher:We'll get you. I know.

12:08Scott Galloway:The Strait of Hormuz would take, to keep it open, would take two carrier strike forces, paratroopers and Marines on the ground on Iranian soil. That is not going to happen. The net-net here is the following. America comes out of this much weaker, Iran much stronger, and we're going to look back and realize that the JCPOA was one of the more impressive acts of diplomacy of the last 50 years.

12:31Kara Swisher:Yep, except they continue to deny it. It's really, like, it's the same thing with the reflecting pool. And the reason why I'm harping on it, it's the same thing. It's the same kind of, like, no, this is what's happening. You know, you've seen all these communications from the White House. And it looks so ridiculous when it's the reflecting pool, but it's the same exact communications. They're blaming the New York Times. They're blaming for the coverage. He's blaming Obama. He's blaming everybody. And it's the same thing. Oh, it's vandals. It's this. It's that. It's him. He's just a disaster. And again, I point to, finally, someone is starting to write about it, his mental state, which seems demented.

13:10Kara Swisher:And we'll get into that a little bit more. But the way he's sort of lashing out in this crazy way when it's all his fault seems, and of course, blaming poor J.D. Vance. I mean, I never feel that sorry for that guy, but I got to say he's been dragged. He's been pensed. I don't know what else to say. He's sort of stuck holding the bag here and having to defend it. And it's worse than when Kamala Harris even lightly said, I wouldn't change a thing on The View, right? Sort of the same exact thing. So, I mean, it's disastrous for the Republicans in so many ways because he doesn't have it out. So my worry, because I think he lashes out, like arresting, Jeanine Pirro arresting people for this thing?

13:49Kara Swisher:This is like, let me tell you, Jeanine, I was down there. I didn't touch the strip of paint, but it was stripping off all by itself. It's going to be a disaster. These people are soiling themselves in the most ridiculous of ways. And in Iran, with the reflecting pool, it's just stupid, although costly to us as taxpayers. The same thing with the rest of the mess he's making. But in this case, it's disastrous. I mean, really, truly. I don't know how anyone's going to get us out of this. Because we've got two more years of this lunatic, essentially. I don't even know. What could happen? He gets sidelined?

14:24Kara Swisher:What? I don't know. Like, he's not going anywhere, even if he loses power.

14:28Scott Galloway:Yeah, but I think if Democrats state Congress have the power of subpoena, and hopefully if they were to get back Senate, at a minimum, there'd be enough power to get in the way of a lot of this stuff.

14:40Kara Swisher:Except that Iran will then develop a nuclear weapon. I feel like right now. Iran, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, that's where the worry, that's the only thing we all agree on. Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon, but wow, we've given him a chance here. This is, and then the economy itself. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, resignations, feuds, and more, and we'll get into all the European political drama.

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18:27Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back with big news here in Europe. There's a lot going on. Keir Starmer just announced he's stepping down as Britain's prime minister, giving into mounting pressure from his own party. Starmer said he'll stay in office until a new party leader is selected and likely to be this guy named Andy Burnham, former mayor of Greater Manchester, a very popular guy. Trump got ahead of the announcement over the weekend, noting Starmer would step down and saying he had failed badly on immigration and energy policy. Also, a lot of attacks from Elon Musk, by the way. And Starmer's resignation comes almost 10 years to the day since the Brexit vote.

18:57Kara Swisher:The U.K. has had six prime ministers in that time. Talk a little bit about, you live there. What has happened here? Obviously, he was going to lose an election, and he had won in a landslide in a very short time ago.

19:10Scott Galloway:I think a lot of it comes down to economics, and that is, I mean, it's very strange. Ibiza, Mykonos, and St. Barts in Hawaii are parts of those nations, but they're not. They're islands that have an entirely different culture. I feel that way about London. I think London's essentially an island in the UK. Because if you look at the UK, seven out of 10 IPOs in the last 10 years are below their offering price. GDP was supposed to take a 4 % to 6 % hit from Brexit, the second greatest own goal in geopolitical history behind our entry into Iraq. You have now the UK as a whole has a lower average household income than Mississippi.

19:45Scott Galloway:And then there's London, which is essentially where the richest people in the world park capital and have a European lifestyle without actually engaging in the UK economy. I mean, it's just, it's a very strange place. Since I have moved there after we have a new UK, a new prime minister in several weeks. I've been there four years. This will be my fifth prime minister.

20:08Kara Swisher:Fifth, right? You had conservatives. There was a bunch of, there was a conservative guy. There was Boris.

20:13Scott Galloway:It's not politics. It's speed dating. It's beginning to feel like a LinkedIn jobs page. It's just so, you know, but without growth until they figure out a way, I thought they should do back sit. They should reintegrate into the European economy because without growth, all of this gets harder and harder. And the weird, the quagmire here, or not the quagmire, the enigma is that the U.K. has all the underpinnings of a great democracy and economic growth engine. It has incredible universities, rule of law, culture compounds. Everybody in the world wants to or wouldn't mind the idea of living in the U.K.

20:52Scott Galloway:for a few years. It's delightful when you're there. It's a wonderful place. And yet, OpenAI, Anthropic, and SpaceX are going to raise$150 billion in fresh capital. The UK raised a total of$2 billion last year in its entire IPO market. They just can't get out of their own way. And Brexit, and just to go to politics, since World War II, no individual has done more harm to Britain, in my view, than Nigel Farage, who might be a prime minister at some point. So I have stayed woefully ignorant to UK politics, but it is difficult for me to understand how the foundation of success, how they continue to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory here.

21:33Scott Galloway:And I got to think it's something, it's got to be a big, bold move. Even the non-DOM thing, we kicked out, basically they chased a lot of billionaires out of the UK. And I understand the sentiment. It's let's tickle the middle class censors of people who are angry. But at the same time, the Treasury's gone down because a lot of wealthy people are leaving. And that reduces your tax base to, you know, provide for the NHS and these social services. But this is, I mean, UK politics. And then what do you have? You have the rise of populism. They have had real problems. You know, to a certain extent, it's a metaphor for the West.

22:10Scott Galloway:You have, or when the West goes wrong, stagnant wages, housing shortages, immigration anxiety, and institutional distrust.

22:18Kara Swisher:You also have a lot of meddling by Elon Musk in terms of backing a bunch of very violent people against immigrants.

22:24Scott Galloway:The American export is political divisiveness.

22:26Kara Swisher:Right, yeah.

22:27Scott Galloway:It's not helping.

22:28Kara Swisher:But it's Elon himself that's meddling quite a bit.

22:30Scott Galloway:Yeah, but then J.D. Vance comes over and lectures them about free speech. It's like, we shouldn't, you know, in my view, Americans should be here saying, you're our greatest ally. How can we help? What can we do together? How do we open more free trade agreements? Instead, Musk shows up and says, rise up white people. Or, I mean, essentially, and J.D. Vance comes over and waves his finger at him around free speech. It's just, and now they've got to figure out a way to basically untangle the technology. Their new, Britain's nuclear arsenal runs on American technology. And all of a sudden, Europe is waking up and going, what the fuck?

23:08Scott Galloway:We have become way—

23:09Kara Swisher:The conservatives aren't popular either. Farage kind of is. It's like nobody's popular. It's a real— Yeah, it's a very angry nation.

23:17Scott Galloway:But when you don't have growth, people's prosperity goes down, and they just get angrier and angrier. So, again, not to talk too much about money, but they have got to figure out a way to get growth going again.

23:31Kara Swisher:How would you do that?

23:32Scott Galloway:Growth grows. You have more money. You have more flexibility. You have more power abroad. You can't have a powerful nation that's shrinking its GDP. And again, I was in Cannes when Brexit happened and the pound crashed. It's cost them 8 % of their GDP, which is like taking hundreds of billions of pounds into the street and just lighting it on fire.

23:51Kara Swisher:Yeah, they may return to the—I mean, it's interesting because Europe is getting more and more unified. Speaking of which, Trump's latest feud is with one of his pals, basically his European, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Italian Prime Minister, Georgia Maloney. The spat started after Trump—this is so strange. Again, I'm sorry, this guy's lost his mind. After Trump claimed Maloney, Maloney begged him for a—Maloney, it was called Maloney—begged him for a photo of last week's G7 summit in France. Maloney responded with a video on Instagram, which was quite remarkable, calling Trump's claims totally fabricated and saying, Italy and I never beg.

24:25Kara Swisher:She also accused Trump of being more accommodating to the enemies of the West than his own allies. Trump then doubled down, saying Maloney is doing poorly in Italy with her level of popularity, which she fired back. My popularity is none of your concern. I suggest you focus on yours. Pointing to his bad, his lowering, increasingly lowering popularity. Boy, this woman, even though, let me just, let's be clear. She's anti-gay marriage. She's anti-trans. She's anti-immigrant. She's not. She's Marjorie Taylor Greene, essentially. This is the European version of her. And at the same time, I was like, go Georgia.

24:59Kara Swisher:Like, it was kind of interesting that he continues, again, the sign of someone who is having some cognitive problems, it seemed like to me. This is usually such a— He's always been like this.

25:09Scott Galloway:He's always been an asshole.

25:11Kara Swisher:But not this much of an asshole. And she just took it to him, which I found really interesting. I mean, obviously, it helps her in Italy because he's not popular there. And he's not popular anywhere in Europe now. And they were tight as ticks, if you recall. But this is, again, greatness is in the agency of others.

25:30Scott Galloway:And European countries have been our strongest allies. We share same values, same democracies. We've worked together. We've had incredible. the post-World War II world was largely shaped by America and European values. And Trump decides, again, he's figured out a way to manage to feud with and alienate allies while simultaneously praising adversaries. And we've spent 80 years developing these alliances, and Trump treats them like some sort of fantasy football league. And Maloney, to her credit, But she remains, her popularity is actually greater than most Western leaders. And then he decides to pick a fight with one of the few European leaders who actually likes him.

26:16Kara Swisher:She went at him on the Pope, too. She doesn't much like his comments on the Pope, either.

26:20Scott Galloway:Yeah, well, I mean, come on. Criticizing the Pope is like if someone in Italy, you just don't do that. None of this makes any sense, Kara. None of this makes any sense. None of it.

26:31Kara Swisher:I believe her. Believe the woman. I totally believe her.

26:36Scott Galloway:I believe her.

26:36Kara Swisher:He's such a creep. Little pieces of his brains are coming off like the paint on the Lincoln Memorial reflecting pool. But this is interesting because she's a really, because she's really, if you actually look at a lot of our policies, they're pretty heinous in terms of how she behaves. But she's sort of shifted. I mean, she used Trump to sort of get there and now she's cutting him loose, like more than others, actually. The others haven't been quite as critical of him. Starmer certainly hasn't, right? Or any of them have. I don't know. The Germans have it. She's really taken it to the wall. Anyway, I don't know.

27:11Scott Galloway:Yeah, I think most of them have decided, wait them out. It's a smart move for Melanie because she comes across as a leader and not afraid. And, you know, good for her.

27:20Kara Swisher:It's not good for her. We look terrible once again. By the way, it's really interesting to be in Europe because a lot of people are saying, you don't like Trump, do you? To me, I'm like, no.

27:31Scott Galloway:Really?

27:31Kara Swisher:No. Yeah, a lot of the Europeans sort of test it when we were in Paris. several different times. Like, you're not a fan of Trump. I'm like, hardly. Like, hello, lesbian family. Like, no. And so they asked several Europeans, whether there's a tour guide, Eiffel Tower or whatever, were sort of like poking to see if we liked him, which obviously we look like an ad for not liking Trump. And anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, new details about how Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos tried to cozy up to Trump. This is an interesting story.

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28:14Scott Galloway:Yeah, we fired a king claiming divine authority.

28:17Kara Swisher:And then wrote a constitution with no mention of God.

28:20Scott Galloway:Which is a big deal.

28:22Kara Swisher:The whole separation of church and state thing, as you know.

28:24Scott Galloway:And those lines are blurring.

28:27Kara Swisher:You see it in things like America Praise event on May 17th, where the government starts uniting with religion.

28:33Scott Galloway:Which typically or historically doesn't end well for freedom.

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30:08Scott Galloway:Support for this show comes from Teleport. Here's a finding that should stop every tech leader cold. Organizations most confident in their AI deployments have more than twice the security incident rate of those that aren't, 72 % versus 33%. That's from Teleport's 2026 Infrastructure Identity Survey of more than 200 infrastructure security leaders. But data breach isn't just a costly endeavor, it can damage trust. The most frequent causes of data breaches are human error and compromised credentials. But in the AI era, agents that are granted broad privileges dramatically increase risk. Solution services like Teleport, an AI infrastructure identity company, provide an identity and access platform that is purpose-built for modern, highly automated environments, which are now deploying agents into production.

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31:21Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back. President Trump probably took frequent jabs at Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos as he tried to build ties with his administration. That's according to a new book by New York Times reporters Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan, who I'm going to have on the On podcast soon. The president told guests stories about Zuckerberg and Bezos kissing his ass, which they were, saying, you do not believe the texts I got from these tech guys I got to show you. Among them, Zuckerberg sent Trump a photo of a letter written by one of his young children, which said they were looking forward to a golden age of America.

31:50Kara Swisher:Trump rally slogan. And Bezos, meanwhile, reportedly told Trump that the Washington Post was one of his worst investments and that people there are really terrible. Oh, my God. I mean, honestly. And then, of course, he was showing it to Elon, too. They all made fun of them. And, you know, anyway, it was kind of I mean, by the way, on the other side, they insult him behind his back, too. But what is the what has happened here from your perspective when you were reading sort of this stuff? I'm not surprised by one bit of it whatsoever. But I don't know if they'll get their reputations back. We always thought Trump was a jerk, but this is really kind of obsequious.

32:27Scott Galloway:Yeah, but it represents a flip that is sort of represents something, in my view, kind of dark. And that is politicians used to kiss the ass of billionaires because billionaires had money and politicians wanted to get elected. And it became kind of a pay for play thing because of Citizens United. But when you think about this, Bezos and Zuckerberg are worth hundreds of billions of dollars. And yet they both still feel compelled to kiss the ass of an 80 year old real estate developer. capital always chases power but silicon valley spent 20 years telling us government didn't matter and then everyone started flying to washington and what this signals around the dark part is the following if you're worth a quarter of a trillion dollars and still kissing the ass of the president you're not this is moved from buying influence to renting protection This is a transition for a pay-for-play democracy to something even worse, and that is a mob protection racket.

33:28Scott Galloway:Yeah, that's a very good point. Where if I want to hold on to my wealth, I got to start paying for protection. Because anybody that doesn't sign up gets in his crosshairs and potentially, you know, all of these guys. Jamie Dimon is the only one I can tell of all these like this power crew that hasn't kissed his ass and is actually willing to occasionally say the obvious. And now the government is suing J.P. Morgan. Right. So it doesn't matter how powerful you are. You got to pay the mob. And this is what do you have? You want a democracy where money can't buy influence or can't buy too much. Then you move to a democracy, a quote unquote democracy or a kleptocracy where money buys everything.

34:10Scott Galloway:And now we're, in my opinion, a protection racket where Bezos and Zuckerberg got to kiss the ring here. It's feeling very Russia.

34:19Kara Swisher:But do they got to? Do they got to? I feel like they're more powerful. I don't even understand it. I don't know. I mean, they could wait him out. They've got so much money. They could do so much damage to him.

34:33Scott Galloway:You're going to, if the, I do think if the Democrats take Congress and we get about 18 or 24 months out, I think you're all of a sudden going to see, as I say, these guys are going to grow testicles again. I think you're going to see a switch because I know they all tell you they can't stand them. But the smart play, I hate to say it, the smart play is just to kiss his ass.

34:56Kara Swisher:I guess. But it's so, you don't have to do it in a grow testicle with your kids. Oh, my God. Like, my child wrote this to me. Do you know how much of a loser you look like that you're pimping out your kids? And then Bezos, just sell the fucking Washington Post if it's one of your worst investments and people are terrible. I don't get that.

35:13Scott Galloway:We've talked about it. I still don't understand why he still owns that.

35:16Kara Swisher:You know, it's not just me who was interested. There was a dozen people. Wouldn't engage with any of them. I've talked to every one of them. Wouldn't engage. Not once. What is he like? I don't know what's happening. If he doesn't like it, if it's his worst investments and people are terrible. And by the way, Jeff, they hate you. why not just get rid of it? It's so weird.

35:36Scott Galloway:Yeah, I don't get that one. I don't understand why it is.

35:37Kara Swisher:Because it doesn't give him power. By the way, it did an amazing story on Tulsi Gabbard this week. Like, it's done several amazing stories around the corruption and everything else. I mean, the news parts, the editorial section is such weak sauce now, it's really hard to read. But I agree. I don't understand it. I don't know. When they're sucking up to the normal president, are we going to forgive them or do we care? No, they've sort of soiled themselves pretty significantly.

36:05Scott Galloway:I don't know, but it feels very Russian in the sense that it doesn't matter how rich you are, you've got to send Putin his vig. And no matter where you are, you might, if you really piss him off, he's going to put a neurotoxin on a doorknob. Yeah, but he's this guy who isn't going to do that.

36:25Kara Swisher:That's the thing. It's not like in there I kind of see it because that's kind of going out a window kind of thing. This is just something else.

36:33Scott Galloway:Yeah, but I think these guys in a capitalist society begin to equate success and ego and influence just with a number, and that is your net worth. And I think they're very smart, and they connect all the dots and see the matrix around how to increase their net worth. And they've connected the dots here and say, just kiss his ass. They're just so gross. It's a really high ROI activity.

36:56Kara Swisher:They're so gross. They're just gross. They're being at your kids. It's just gross. Sorry, it's just gross. It's gross. In other Amazon news, this is interesting. Amazon's movie studio is dumping an upcoming film about Sam Altman saying the project would be better served in another studio. The decision comes as Amazon plans to invest$50 billion in OpenAI this year. The move reportedly stunned the filmmakers, very good filmmakers, by the way. Andrew Garfield was in it. I am in the script. I don't come off very well. I look like I'm too nice to Sam, but I don't care. Since Amazon had already spent about$40 million on the movie, tested it at four markets, It's working towards a release date.

37:30Kara Swisher:I don't know. And they can't, this is not getting picked up. Netflix passed, apparently. A couple of different places passed. And it's, you know, it's a high-level film. I read the script, and I didn't like it. I thought it was fictional in a lot of ways. They sort of painted Jeffrey Hint as a party guy, which is not in my experience. And they made that one guy who rebelled against Sam into a hero, and I don't think he was either. I thought it was kind of broad and I thought it was not a good script. But there's, of course, the other ones coming out about Mark Zuckerberg, the sequel to The Social Wrecking, which we previously talked about, about Francis Haugen and that whole situation.

38:10Kara Swisher:That's coming out. That's good. That is coming out with the guy from The Bear. But you feel, I don't know. I'm not surprised they got rid of it if they just invested in open AI. But it seems kind of dumb spending all that money. It's not much, 40 million, who cares?

38:25Scott Galloway:I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but we were well into the development or even production writer's room of our series on Netflix about big tech. That got the plug pulled. This has gotten the plug pulled. I think they've just decided that—

38:43Kara Swisher:They don't want to be villains.

38:45Scott Galloway:Yeah, and they don't—it's not worth the risk. You piss off either powerful people or you piss off the president. all these M &A, all these regulatory concerns, and quite frankly, the American public seems to have soured on AI. Or it could just be the following. The story of Sam Allman isn't that interesting. And it seemed more interesting 12 months ago than it is now. So I think they'd, you know, think, well, let's just do season four of Euphoria. I don't, I think they've done the math here and decided that stories about big tech.

39:13Kara Swisher:The gay hockey people seems popular.

39:15Scott Galloway:Yes, let's do the women's hockey team this year.

39:18Kara Swisher:Toy Story 5 is doing incredibly well. Toy Story 5 is like killing it.

39:21Scott Galloway:Huge opening. By the way, to your credit, I meant to tell you, you've been talking about theaters and I've been shitposting them. The best performing media stocks the last 12 months hasn't been meta or it hasn't been. It's been theaters.

39:33Kara Swisher:Alex Swisher went to the theater. He did. He loved it. He's going again to watch the other one.

39:39Scott Galloway:IRL is a trend again. But anyways, back to quote unquote artificial, the name of this that they've killed. I think they just do the math and go, okay, the story isn't that interesting. It's going to piss off potentially a lot of powerful people. Is this worth it? And look, I saw this happen up close and personal.

40:02Kara Swisher:Tell us more about this plug pulling for you. Explain to the people what your show was so people understand.

40:09Scott Galloway:So I connected with Rez Media, who did The Morning Show, incredibly talented guy. and then I had an, we had an amazing show runner, Scott Burns from the Bourne Identity, incredibly talented guy. We signed up Rosamund Pike to play the lead character based on, you know, loosely based or inspired by Sheryl Sandberg. It got, we, we, we did our pitch and it got bought in the room, which never happens. Right, I remember. Netflix committed to the entire first season. Wow, finally, oh my God, finally after a swing and a miss and being being in the face about 10 times, I got something going. Everything's going fine.

40:47Scott Galloway:Everything's going fine. Netflix doesn't like the scripts. The showrunner leaves. Rosamund has some family issues. And just the wheels came off the bus. And what probably happened is Occam's Razor probably just fell apart.

41:02Kara Swisher:Because Hollywood stuff tends to.

41:04Scott Galloway:Well, not when you get to this stage. No, I know.

41:07Kara Swisher:I agree with you.

41:08Scott Galloway:I mean, we were scouting locations. And then so I immediately went to, was there some politics? Because, okay, meanwhile, Netflix is making a bid for Warner Brothers. And so I'm going to go, is something else at foot here? And then I talked to that incredibly impressive woman at Netflix who runs all of her content. Bella Bajorio. She was very straight with me. She said, problems with the scripts, family issues for the lead, and this happens. And I believe that. I believe that's what happened. But then you see this thing get the plug pulled. I think the creative community has basically said, America is tired of hearing about Big Peck, and there's a ton of second-order risk around these stories right now.

41:52Kara Swisher:Right, yeah. Yeah, that could be. It could be that, what's doing well and what's not doing. It'll be interesting to see how the social reckoning does, right? Although some people say it's a mess of a script with Aaron Sorkin. I haven't seen it. But it's getting a big push. That's getting a big push, and that's the second part of the Facebook story. It's an accompaniment to the social network. And this time Sorkin and not Fincher is directing, which we'll see how he does. But you're right. It's like, do we want to see more about these assholes? Right? Like that kind of thing, I guess.

42:23Scott Galloway:I still think the story of big tech is the biggest story that's never been told. I still think someone's going to produce it. I think Bezos and Musk and Sheryl Sandberg and what I wanted and they agreed to in the first season was I actually think Sheryl Sandberg is one of the more interesting characters in big tech. I think she's actually in many ways more interesting than Musk. And, but when you hear about these people's lives, you just wouldn't believe it unless you knew it was real. I think they're incredibly complex, interesting, strange people.

42:51Kara Swisher:Petty.

42:52Scott Galloway:And the stories.

42:53Kara Swisher:Angry. Unhappy. Yeah.

42:55Scott Galloway:But again, it really is, and no one's told it that well. It's the biggest story that has yet to be told. People are obsessed with succession. News Corp is a pimple on the elephant of big tech.

43:05Kara Swisher:Right. You're right.

43:06Scott Galloway:This story really hasn't been told yet.

43:08Kara Swisher:You know what I think it's going to be? It's going to be theater and opera. Like that, I just have this feeling that there's going to be a theatrical show or in that regard, right? Where it's going to be told. Because I have a couple ones going and I don't think they'll ever get made. I just don't think they will. Both my book, my memoir, and then another one with Brad Stone and I that we wrote years ago. We wrote The Treatment Four years ago. And it's moving, but slowly. And the question is, do people want to watch? Unless you make it really, like succession work because it was like fantastic cast, fantastic script.

43:41Kara Swisher:rich people fucking things up. I think it might have to wait a step to get to these people, but they will. They'll be got, and they're amazing characters in a terrible way. Speaking of things that are crashing to the ground, SpaceX hype is crashing. As we tape on Monday, SpaceX shares are down to$167, down 17%, valuing the company at$2.2 trillion, still enormous. The stock is still up 24 % from the IPO price, but down over 16 % from its peak. A lot of people feel this is going to keep coming down. I don't know, but some people are buying. So will it have the effect on the upcoming IPOs? And let's hear a question from a listener about Elon's shares and his impact on the company, and then we can answer all these questions.

44:26Scott Galloway:So if he tried to actually sell or borrow against even a smaller percentage of it tomorrow, what happens to the price? If he dies or It was incapacitated tonight. What's the stock really worth the next morning?

44:41Kara Swisher:Zero. Zero. Like, oh, my God. That would be, look out fucking below. But your thoughts?

44:48Scott Galloway:Well, my understanding is, there's a lot of nuance there. My understanding is he's agreed to a self-lockup of a year. So he hasn't sold, he's not selling any shares.

44:55Kara Swisher:But he could borrow against it.

44:57Scott Galloway:That's exactly right. And he can borrow way more than he could ever spend against it.

45:01Kara Swisher:Explain how rich people do that, Scott, for people that don't understand. borrowing against your stuff?

45:07Scott Galloway:Okay. So the ultimate wealth accumulation and income inequality strategy is the following. If you're fortunate enough to have equity in a company that does really well, it's called the buy, borrow, die strategy. And that is Jeff Bezos owns$120 billion in Amazon shares. And to fund his lifestyle, he borrows against it at very low interest rates. And then he puts a lot of it in trust. And when he dies, there's a step up in valuation. So his kids don't have to pay taxes on it. Or when he actually starts selling, he decides he needs to spend more time with his dad in Florida such that he doesn't have to pay back the cost of the infrastructure of the great state of Washington that built his$120 billion in fortune.

45:47Scott Galloway:And the greatest distinction between the wealthy and the not wealthy is the following. Are you an earner or are you an owner? And you want to do everything you can, whether it's tax-free, investment vehicles, getting the money out of your hands, automatic investment every month, you have to get to be an owner. Because the thing about owning stock or houses or assets is they increase in value tax deferred. What do I mean by that? If you make$100 ,000 a year, you're an asset increasing your wealth by$100 ,000, but you lose 30 % of it in taxes. Whereas if your stocks go up$100 ,000, as long as you don't sell, there's no taxable event.

46:25Scott Galloway:Now, what should happen is that we need new laws such that when you borrow against your assets, it creates a taxable event on the capital or the asset you're borrowing against. Because what effectively has happened is the owners are just pulling away from the earners. It's never sell your stock, let it keep going up and borrow against it for your lifestyle needs. And then you can take additional capital and start investing in other things and diversifying. And we're going to have the last 20, 30 years in America, We've been obsessed with how to create wealth. Over the next 10 years, they're going to have a very important conversation around what do you do and what is expected of wealth.

47:04Kara Swisher:But now what's going to happen with this stock? I mean, because let's assume he's not going to be incapacitated or dead, but he will borrow against it if he needs the money. I mean, how much money does he actually need if he wants to, say, fund a presidential election, for example?

47:20Scott Galloway:He's worth a trillion dollars. He can go to J.P. Morgan and say, loan me$10 billion. And they're not going to ask him what he's doing with it. And he could literally overwhelm the airwaves and social media with his chosen candidates. Is the stock going to go down? Okay, let me just be clear. SpaceX trades at a price to sales ratio. Well, let's do it the other way. Apple trades at 10.5 times price to sales. Alphabet, 11. Tesla, 16. NVIDIA, 39. By the way, all these companies are growing faster except for Tesla than SpaceX. SpaceX trades at 131. Meta, an amazing company, trades at 7.3. Amazon trades at 3.7.

48:03Scott Galloway:Amazon 3.7? 3.7.

48:06Kara Swisher:Oh, my God. 10 is usually the thing, right? 10 to 15, correct? 12.

48:10Scott Galloway:Yeah, those are higher margin companies. Amazon's in a low margin business. I think the only stock in all of these that I would buy right now is Amazon. because what you get is you get a distant number two to SpaceX with the core business of their retail platform. And if you want to talk about AI, the adjacent AI plays to go after industrial robots, of which Amazon has two and a half times the total amount of America.

48:33Kara Swisher:If you're FedEx, you have to be worried too, same thing.

48:36Scott Galloway:If I could go short any category right now, it would be a basket of the secondary AI players. And if I could go long any category, it would be GLP-1s. I don't know if you've seen what's coming out of the American clinical. oncology gathering. But they're now saying that metastatic cancers get cut in half the growth rates when people are on GLB-1s.

48:58Kara Swisher:Also, these foods, as you said, two years ago, you know, the cuts in prices for Doritos and for all that shitty food is really quite significant. People, there's now not enough cottage cheese around and yogurt and things like, you know, it's really interesting like in terms of how people's tastes have shifted because one in eight Americans is on this drug at this point.

49:22Scott Galloway:I think it's going to be one in two.

49:24Kara Swisher:I agree. I agree.

49:25Scott Galloway:My prediction is both of us are on GLP-1s, some form or microlosing. Oh, I'm going to start.

49:30Kara Swisher:My cardiologist was like, we're going to have your stroke ever again. We're going to give you a small amount. I'm going to do it. I haven't started.

49:36Scott Galloway:They're talking about potential delay of dementia and Alzheimer's. They're finding out.

49:42Kara Swisher:No, my cardiologist was like, ebso-fucking-lutely, we're doing it for you.

49:45Scott Galloway:They're just finding out all sorts of, there's never been an innovation that appears to have second order effects that are this positive. Usually find externalities that are negative. You know, you get, you blast someone with chemo enough, they get leukemia 20 years later, right? There's big tech, all sorts of externalities. The externalities of GLP-1, you know, and there are issues around nausea, muscle loss, but every time they do more research, they keep finding out better and better things.

50:15Kara Swisher:Yeah, I think it's the biggest test case. It'll be interesting to see what the negative, there are some negative effects and stuff like that, but it's a little like a statin, you know. But one of the things is people eating whole foods and craving things that are protein, protein-related, healthy proteins, which is really interesting. Anyway, we'll see. I would agree with you. You called this one very hard two years ago, at least, if you recall. I remember this. I remember being struck by it. Anyway, SpaceX shares. Good luck if you buy them. And let's not hope Elon Dizer is incapacitated tonight because it is a look at below for that stock, correct?

50:50Kara Swisher:I mean, let's just answer his question. If something happens to him, that price, even though SpaceX is a very fine business, it's not a very fine business. It's just a telco in the sky, essentially, without it.

51:02Scott Galloway:No, the meme, the co-leader of the meme.

51:04Kara Swisher:It cannot.

51:05Scott Galloway:That would be, yeah, that would be, yeah, I got to believe that would be disastrous for Tesla and for SpaceX. Yeah.

51:15Kara Swisher:He's the one, he's the key man. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for Wins and Fails.

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53:57Kara Swisher:When I got a new car, I thought my insurance premium would increase and empty my bank account. Like if Fatween won the lottery. I've invested most of my winnings in chicken tenders because they're bomb. But bro, I bought a house and it's sick, bro. I'm thinking the floor is going to be all trampoline, bro. With the helipad on the roof. The contractor said it's structurally unsound. They're just being babies. But switching to Geico saved me hundreds, so my bank account is safe.

54:22Scott Galloway:It feels good to save some hard-earned cash. It feels good to Geico.

54:32Kara Swisher:Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.

54:34Scott Galloway:My win is tourists in the U.S. for the World Cup. Oh, yeah. I think international fans are leaving the World Cup raving about America, our food. It's nice. I mean, it's just hilarious. We love your Waffle House. I mean, it's just like...

54:52Kara Swisher:Boston and the Tartan, the Tartan Army, was delightful.

54:56Scott Galloway:What the world is finding out is that America at its core, distinctive podcasters like us and Trump.

55:02Kara Swisher:Oh, they like us.

55:03Scott Galloway:America, Americans are generous, interesting, wonderful people, and it's an amazing culture. And they're getting to see that. But we get to see just how wonderful these nations are. And like I said, I think the World Cup is doing what the UN initially envisioned it would do. I think it's bringing people together. these viral online videos show fans excited about American food. Our huge portions, Chipotle, Shake Shack, and many more. Visitors to NYC were able to be part of the legendary Knicks parade. The World Cup has attracted a projected 10 million visitors. Airbnb searches in host cities jumped 80%.

55:39Scott Galloway:Year on year, visitors are staying about 12 days, attending two matches, and spending over$400 a day on average. New York City's tourism chief, Julie Coker, likened the boost to hosting as many as eight Super Bowls in six weeks. I just think the World Cup, I think FIFA is one of the most corrupt organizations in sport. But I think the World Cup is just incredible.

56:04Kara Swisher:It's the fans. It's the fans. They were just the fans. The fans are delightful.

56:07Scott Galloway:But you see people in Kansas welcoming, you know, these people from Norway. You see the Japanese. I just, it really is, I think we forget that, generally speaking, these cultures are wonderful. Generally speaking. And we're not Trump. Yeah, generally speaking, people want to get along. Generally speaking, we're not that divided. We just have the most profitable companies in the world trying to divide us.

56:31Kara Swisher:And we have a president who's trying to divide us. Agreed. I mean, I think, you know what I'm struck by here is you get the feeling, and this is just being in France for a short time, is they really want to like us. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I had so many Europeans, like, testing to see, who are you one of those people, Americans? And you're not, and then they're, like, thrilled to have you there. One, I have to say, everyone's been really lovely everywhere we've gone. And I do think there's a backlash happening, Scott. I do. People are like, I'm tired of being angry at these fuckers. I'm like, let's just get rid of them.

57:07Kara Swisher:Let's just move along. And you're right, the World Cup, I know you don't think as much as the Knicks, but there's a feeling. I think you're absolutely right. I would agree with you. And these people want to like us. They want to like us in a lot of ways.

57:21Scott Galloway:There you go. My fail, and this is indicative of social media, is that Polymarket is flooding social media with fake trading videos. I think the Wall Street Journal is doing a great job. They did an analysis that found that Polymarket paid dozens of college-age creators to post videos of fake trades and fake wins on the platform. So one of the videos, for example, shows a young man saying he won$100 ,000 on a bet that Trump would say at McDonald's in public. But in reality, all of the accounts that made the bet lost money. And to make these clips, Polymarket built copies of its website and then told creators to make, quote, trades on those sites.

58:05Scott Galloway:and hide that they were being paid by Polymarket. Scanners. So, by the way, I feel I should disclose that at Prof G Markets, we have a data partnership with CalSHE. You do. So, but we're not doing, well, anyways, but gambling and gaming for young men is really corrosive, and I still can't resolve what to do about it because you don't want to infantilize young people, and it's a tough one. But at a minimum, these companies shouldn't be posting fake social media posts that show someone winning when they didn't. It's just it's preying on their worst instincts. And it's disingenuous.

58:45Kara Swisher:Yeah, it's just do your business. If people want to use it, you don't have to, like, trick people.

58:49Scott Galloway:And these are great businesses. But Polymarket's audience is 70 % male. And the most common age demographic is 25 to 34. So, again, it's young men. And guess this.

59:00Kara Swisher:Can I use a comparison? You know those two, when you were after Robin Hood for a while, and then the other people that you worked with, Public? Public, yeah, Public.com. They seem like the Robin Hood people, the polymarket people. I don't know.

59:13Scott Galloway:Well, they're especially aggressive. And I have problems with all of it. I don't have moral clarity about all of it, quite frankly, any of it. But the deceptive marketing mostly affects young men and just evidence of who they're targeting. A plurality of polymarkets display ads are on what site? I'll give you a guess. Young men. They're trying to reach young men. Pornhub.

59:39Kara Swisher:Pornhub. Uh-huh. That makes sense.

59:41Scott Galloway:So this is, and again, I don't know if you can regulate this. They'll say it's free speech. Everybody's making money. But this does feel like deceptive marketing. Anyways, that's my fail.

59:53Kara Swisher:That's a good fail. I agree with you. I think you're, I mean, it is. It's just, why do you have to trick people? Just make it the product. They're great businesses.

1:00:00Scott Galloway:People love this stuff. They love the prediction markets. The data's interesting. They're addictive.

1:00:04Kara Swisher:They're just stupid. It's just con people. My fail is the way the Republicans are continuing to attack James Tallarico over his sexuality, which is, I think it must be Trump mistook the word cisgender for six genders or something. but Stephen Miller is particularly heinous in terms, and especially because he's such a loathsome creature. It's just, it's grotesque. It's really grotesque and weird, and I hope it doesn't work. I fear it might, but this idea of accusing someone of being transgender, so it continues, and especially Ted Cruz. I mean, honestly, I hate to say he should know better, but I guess he doesn't.

1:00:45Kara Swisher:But Miller and Cruz and a lot of them are just grotesque. It's just gross. I've never seen anything like this. And it's really hateful and cruel. And, you know, and especially because these particular men are particularly loathsome men at the same time. And so I think that's just, I just can't stand it. Every time I see them do it and they keep doing it, they must be seeing some polling or something. But they're also terrible people. It's just gross. Like, I don't even under, it's so, it's a misogynist. It's transphobic. It's definitely, it's all manner of weirdness on these people's part. And just, again, a bunch of people I cannot wait to see go away at some point relatively soon.

1:01:29Kara Swisher:And we never have to speak of them again. It's how I feel about a lot of these people. On the positive side, really thrilled to see Toy Story did so well. It's one of my favorite movie. It's a great franchise. Franchises. The third one, I lost it at the end of that one. It's about toys, and it's about everything. And this one is focused in on empathy, focused in on all the good things we've been talking about in this show. And I haven't seen it yet. I have my kids, my little, I saw the other ones obviously with my older kids because it's been so long. This is the fifth one. And sometimes when you get to five, you're like, you've got to be kidding kids.

1:02:06Kara Swisher:You just want to sell toys. but the reviews for this and I want to see it in the theater speaking of which and I've downloaded all of them here and I'm hoping to watch all four movies with the little ones and then take them to it I just feel like what an astonishing franchise it's been and it's just I dare you not to cry at almost any of them I just I cry and I don't cry that last the third one just killed me just killed me and I don't know why I just it's just beautiful And this one's about stuff that's taught. It's about digital, but it doesn't demonize digital. It just talks about play with kids, and I'm very excited to see it.

1:02:47Kara Swisher:So I'm really happy for the Pixar people for putting out a great film, and I'm excited to see it.

1:02:52Scott Galloway:Well, you know what my ex-wife said when I came home and found her fucking Woody?

1:02:59Kara Swisher:Oh, no.

1:03:00Scott Galloway:She said, she looked at me and said, she said, you have a friend in me.

1:03:04Kara Swisher:Oh, my God. God, how could you do this to me?

1:03:08Scott Galloway:Come on, that's easy. No. That's easy.

1:03:12Kara Swisher:That is the worst. That is the, I'm not going with you to this movie. You're not getting near my children on this trip to Kong. There we go. Can. Can, I'm pronouncing it right. Can. Can. Can. Can. Thank you for ruining my beautiful, gorgeous moment about children in play and everything else. I truly appreciate it. You are not allowed to go to this movie in any way. You've got a friend in me.

1:03:32Scott Galloway:All right, stop.

1:03:33Kara Swisher:Stop. Stop right now. Anyway, so Scott, I'm looking forward to seeing you. I might see you at a party tonight. Maybe I won't see you at a party, but I want to ride on that Zodiac.

1:03:42Scott Galloway:You know, Toy Story 6 is about Andy's. Oh, no, don't. No, don't. It's about Andy's. Don't.

1:03:47Kara Swisher:I'm serious. Don't. Don't.

1:03:48Scott Galloway:Toy Story 6 is about Andy's mother's toys, which coincidentally are also called Woody and Buzz.

1:03:53Kara Swisher:Oh, my God. All right. Okay. You have ruined my win. Those are so bad. Those are so bad. They're so bad, and they're so sad.

1:04:01Scott Galloway:Turn on your cameras. Are the producers laughing? That's my list test. No, no, it's not. Or do they have their head in their hands?

1:04:06Kara Swisher:Afterwards, they'll go, Scott, do we really want to do this? And we're going to. So that's the way, that's where Lara goes, like that. That's the voice. Anyway, I will see you in person at live. We're going to have lots of people there. It'll be fun. I think it is sold out. We are, and I am also doing a live interview with Jim Bacoff and Meredith Levian from the New York Times. Oh, stop.

1:04:31Scott Galloway:I mean, that sounds really interesting. Yeah. Was NPR hosting that? Yeah.

1:04:37Kara Swisher:It's going to be great. We're going to talk about DEI, the Forestry Service? Listen, dirty, dirty. Oh, my God.

1:04:42Scott Galloway:I'm going to see Team Scotland at the Crane Club pop-up on the Palais tomorrow at midnight. Then I'm going to the Spotify party. Who wants to roll with the dog? Who wants to roll with the dog?

1:04:53Kara Swisher:I will see you in a few days, Scott. And we want to hear from you also. So our listeners, send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind, including Scott's filthy, filthy brain this week. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551-PIVOT. And elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week on On with Kara Swisher, I talked to Harvey Levin, founder of the Celebrity News Juggernaut TMZ, who I adore, about its new Washington and D.C. bureau and expanded political coverage. Let's listen to a clip.

1:05:23Scott Galloway:I do want to just say one thing that, you know, you're referring to this as, you know, politicians being a form of celebrities. Right.

1:05:31Kara Swisher:Yeah. You can push that.

1:05:33Scott Galloway:I don't view it that way. Okay. I view it as pop culture. We cover pop culture. And pop culture can be a lot of things. You know, it can be sports, it can be entertainment. And pop culture is politics. Because a lot of the things that affect everybody emanates from Washington, D.C. and it emanates from the courts. It emanates from Congress, from the president, and it affects all of us. So they are an integral part of pop culture. So to me, it has never been a stretch.

1:06:06Kara Swisher:It's a really good interview. They had tried for years to do this. He's a great guy. And by the way, they're breaking some stories. I have to say that they really are. They're like when they took those pictures of politicians during the shutdown, like Lindsey Graham with his bubble wand at Disneyland, I think they're doing an excellent job. Reminds me of the old Washington Post, which used to do this kind of stuff, a mix of things. Anyway, he's great. I've known him for many, many years. I like Harvey a lot. I think he's a really interesting entrepreneur in media. He's one of the OG ones. Okay, that's the show.

1:06:36Kara Swisher:Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday live from Cannes.

1:06:43Scott Galloway:Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus-Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman. Ernie and your Todd, Andrew, and you need to do this episode. Thanks also to Jibros, Miss Avery, and Dan Chalon, and Sharkaraz, Vox Media's executive producer podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Go team Scotland versus Brazil.

1:07:11Kara Swisher:When I got a new car, I thought my insurance premium would increase and empty my bank account. Like if Fatween won the lottery. I've invested most of my winnings in chicken tenders because they're bomb. But bro, I bought a house and it's sick, bro. I'm thinking the floor is going to be all trampoline, bro. With the helipad on the roof. The contractor said it's structurally unsound. They're just being babies. But switching to Geico saved me hundreds, so my bank account is safe.

1:07:36Scott Galloway:It feels good to save some hard-earned cash. It feels good to Geico.

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