Tim Walz, X vs. Advertisers, and Global Markets Bounce Back

22:23He owns a number of homes. And this guy doesn't own a home. He's got a pension and not very much of anything. You know what I mean? It's a man of the people. My editor pointed out yesterday when the story dropped that he doesn't own any stocks. And we're like, how is he going to retire? I mean, this is like this is something I think I love thinking about retirement. And I'm like freaking out for him. And then, of course, someone points out, well, he will have a pension. Totally fair. But like my mom has a pension. I don't know. There's just something like he'll write a book. Now he'll be rich.

22:50You know, he'll write a book. Yes. He'll be rich. He'll write books. But if you're looking for that kind of like he's a normal guy. I mean, again, it depends on how you conceive of normal. I'm the generation that will not have a pension that like looks at my mom's generation. It's like, damn, you guys really like you guys really nailed that one. There is something normal about this man having a pension. He's very likable. There's a whole memes going on online about like, you know, around the Jewish thing. They're like, he may not be Jewish, but he would come to your home, find the Afikomen and then hide it again so the kids can find.

23:23Like they're all these like, isn't he a nice guy kind of things all over. Like he'd come and fix your, you know, fix your house. If you had a cough, he'd put Vicks vapor rub on you. This guy would mow your lawn if you broke your leg, he'd mow your lawn, and J.D. Vance would turn you into the HOA for having an unthing lawn. You know, that kind of thing. They're trying to do the – and I think the comparison is bad for Vance because Vance seems creepy. Have you met him? Yes, I knew him when he was in tech. Will you tell me everything? Just share. Please share. I will. We'll get to him in a minute.

23:51But just so you know, the Harris campaign announced that Wednesday had raised$36 million in 24 hours since Walz became vice presidential candidate. So the people like him. I think people don't know about him. That's the strength. And then who's going to define him? I suspect he's going to define himself because he's so he's so voluble. He's so interesting. He's so funny. You know, he's got and he's got, you know, the whole thing. I'm a liberal. OK, I want to give kids lunch. Call me a monster. Like he takes those things and turns them around really effectively. He really owns it proudly. Yeah.

24:18One of the things, he won't be able to deliver a state like Josh Shapiro or Mark Kelly or Roy Cooper might have done, but there's a possibility of shoring up this blue wall state, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania. One of the things that's interesting, he reminds me of a male Gretchen Whitmer, right? Like they're the same. They're the same kind of people. So we'll see. But he's the one, again, that did this whole weird messaging going for Democrats. There's some of the social media posts, as I mentioned. I know Tim Walls could teach me how to drive stick shift without making me cry once. Tim Walls is outside cleaning my grill.

24:50Tim Walls is a dad the entire generation wish they had instead of the one they lost to Fox News. I like that one because my mother is like that. That is deep. Yeah, it is. I actually, I saw some of, I think I saw the one, it was on TikTok, and the woman looked like she was going to cry. And I lost my father to heart disease, not Fox News. But like there is that, there is that like, oh, daddy kind of thing. and it seems that other women who did lose their dads to Fox News, I didn't think about that as a cohort of people, but it seems to be a cohort of people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Welcome. It's me. I have a mother who is a Fox News aficionado who is really toxic.

25:28I don't know what else to say. It's in lost, feels lost and stuff like that. Do you guys have it out or do you just, it's better not to talk about it? Oh, not anymore. It's just like all of us are just, we just let her go on. You know, it's just it's literally like a cult member. I don't know what else to say. I've written stories about it. It's just pointless. It's pointless. She's 90. So whatever. Good luck on your journey to wherever you're going kind of thing. It's sad to say that, but it's true. Republicans, again, are attacking Waltz as left and radical. And again, we're going to get to J.D.

26:00Pence in a second. But he was getting criticized for how he handled the 2020 protests in Minneapolis after the death of George Floyd. Now, of course, there's, of course, audio of Trump praising how he handled them. You were in Minneapolis in 2020 covering those protests. What is your sense? And again, Trump praised him for his how he handled things. I think there's a fair bit of revisionism going on here. But I did a deep dive on this last night because I was genuinely curious. I landed in Minneapolis the day the National Guard came in. So I was running around the city talking to shop owners who'd been boarded up, people who'd been burned out, people who were scared.

26:34And what I remember, I went through my memory, I said, did anybody talk about the governor and not having the National Guard there? And here's what my memory is telling me. My memory is telling me the people I was interviewing on the ground were more concerned that the presence of the authorities, the National Guard, would further inflame the situation and that it would be better if things were allowed to just kind of naturally die down. Now, again, this is business owners. This is business owners, right. And this is also people, vigils for George Floyd, people who were genuinely angry. But again, my memory of that time, and I went and I listened back to my stories, people were just so angry with Derek Chauvin.

27:15They were so angry about that video. They were so angry at that point, at that moment, very broadly with the Minneapolis Police Department, because a lot of people had a story. A lot of people had a story of one time I was driving and they X, Y and Z. So I didn't hear anything about the governor. What I do remember, though, is I do remember the mayor, this young guy, Jacob Fry, kind of being held out. Like, does he know what the heck he's doing? And over the ensuing weeks and months, he really pushed back and says, I did know what I was doing. I asked for the National Guard and the governor didn't send them.

27:48And now the debate is, it seems like there is, there are some emails, the Minneapolis Tribune, Star Tribune has some emails where Fry does ask for the National Guard. Walls does not immediately send them in saying the mayor needs a plan. If you're going to send in the guard, you got to have a plan for where you're going to post them. Seems reasonable, right? Seems reasonable. Again, you know, if you're the mayor and you're thinking the National Guard is the thing that's going to get us out of this, you are ticked off. And lo these many years later, you're probably still thinking about it. So I will tell you what I think, though.

28:20Having to revisit those stories made me think about something really hard. Nobody wants to go back to that. Nobody. Not a single American. And going after Walls by reminding us of what happened in Minneapolis is, it's a choice. It's a strategy. It also reminds me who was the commander in chief at the time, Who was tweeting, when the looting starts, the shooting starts? Who was, you know, it was such a crazy time. And everybody in a position of authority is in some ways, I really truly believe, compromised by the absolute craziness of the time. The person who was president was Donald Trump. You have to think that'll come up.

29:01I don't know. Yeah, I think what's interesting is that they, he wants to go backwards. This idea of going backwards. Donald Trump keeps wanting to do this and I suspect his staff does not want him to do this go backwards because he's doing a backwards facing and I think one of the things that Kamala Harris is strong we don't want to go back like there's two lines that they're using both Walls and her mind your own damn business and we don't want to go back and so I think you're right I think there's probably like oh god everybody made a fucking mistake then right? that kind of thing whether it's COVID or everything Yeah, yeah.

29:38I don't know. I mean, I try to put myself in the minds of people I know who are voting for Donald Trump. I try really hard all the time because I want to be fair about everything. And I think, do they want to go back? Like, again, I don't remember anybody liking that time. That summer and what followed was crazy making. Right, exactly. But thinking of going forward, Project 2025 is still making news. The publication of the book written by the president of the group behind Project 2025, featuring a forward by J.D. Vance, has been delayed until after the elections, as if we didn't notice. Though Donald Trump continues to disavow any connection to the right-wing blueprint, his daughter-in-law and RNC chair Lara Trump said, as again, anyone who pushes Project 2025 knows it's a hoax.

30:23Of course, he was on a plane with the head of Project 2025. You dug into Project 2025 on Today Explained this week. Talk about what you found out. And Trump is also pushing a kind of wacky theory on true social that Biden will crash the DNC convention and take back nomination. Here's your time to talk about J.D. Vance and his creepitude, et cetera. Creepitude or compellingness. No, I'm going to get myself in so much trouble. So we've done two episodes about Project 2025. The first one was like, what is this thing? What's in it? Conservative blueprint. A lot of ideas for bringing the country into a different place.

30:58Gilead, but like a lot of just conservative policy ideas. And then the second part of it is a kind of database from which the Trump administration can hire people who will be loyal to the Trump administration. The news this week is that the man who was the director of Project 2025, Paul Dans, is stepping down, leaving his job. And so this led to a lot of questions about does this mean Project 2025 is dead? Donald Trump has disavowed this thing. Paul Dans is out of a job. He's saying, for completely normal reasons, I'm stepping aside. The time has come. Does it mean that Project 2025 is over? The answer we got from Shelby Talcott, a great reporter at Semaphore, was probably not, and here's why.

31:42Project 2025 is 900 pages of policy ideas. It exists. Paul Dance can go away, and that book still exists. The question is, is Donald Trump going to use that book? And - We'll call it something else. Right. That's the thing. That's Project 2025. It sounds like a it sounds like a science fiction movie. I mean, you read it. It is a science fiction movie, but tracking women's fertility every month. My God, I can't even do that. How are they going to do that? But but so I don't know. It's it's the policy ideas exist. Donald Trump may use them or he may not use them. But I think the problem is. And, you know, I say this delicately.

32:21Donald Trump has a history of not telling the truth. So he disavows this thing. Does that mean he's really disavowed it? Why should a rational person believe that? I don't believe him. I think he's lying. I think they're all lying. I mean, of course, he was keeping pictures of him on planes with them saying it's great. J.D. Vance is doing the forward. Get into Vance because Vance is much more linked with these people. Trump, I don't even think knows, right? I'm being fair here to Trump. I think he just doesn't know stuff, although I think he'd happy to do whatever works. Right. He'll shift and do whatever is best.

32:54And yeah, I think Heritage knows that he doesn't really know. They're like the first time around he was disorganized, left to his own devices. He'll be disorganized again. Let's organize it for him. Right. But Vance is quite involved with these people. J.D. Vance seems to me to be a true believer in this idea that progress, such as liberals conceive of it, has gotten America nowhere except a bunch of childless women with with cats and whatnot. This is Peter Thiel's influence. Yeah. Well, I, Kara, I've been obsessed with these new right guys for a couple of years now. We covered them in the summer of 2022.

33:26And I remember airing those stories. And I remember people saying, oh, yeah, but, but, you know, I have a friend at the time. He's a big Trump guy, big MAGA guy. And I sent him these stories. I said, this is what makes me uncomfortable, right, about the Republican Party right now. This is two summers ago. And he wrote back and he said, but that's not what Donald Trump wants. And those guys will never get near power. And when Blake Masters, who was a member of this cohort, lost in Arizona, he wrote to me, he said, look, these guys lose. Then comes J.D. Vance, one heartbeat away from the presidency.

33:58And I believe that J.D. Vance is a true new right believer. Progress has gotten us nowhere. The country is in decline. Everything is crap. We need strong families. Strong white heterosexual families. But that's the thing. If you could just be inclusive, if you could just say we need strong families, period, it doesn't really matter what they look like. Right. There's an argument. I mean, who's got I don't have children. But if you say I do, I think I believe in strong families. I don't believe it for everybody. It's just what that's the issue is is the idea of and I do. This is why I think Kamala Harris talking about mind your own damn business is what is the government doing in our business?

34:36Like that kind of thing. Yes. Yes. And what is the government doing in our business is supposed to be the Republican Party. That is supposed to be what we expect from them. And now the shift is that Project 2025, page 588, I read it myself, is talking about tracking women's monthly fertility. That's what J.D. Vance said. Are you serious? How does anyone put their name to something like this? But I don't know. I guess there's a – I have a – J.D. Vance's vision of decline, of America in decline, is somewhat compelling to me because I spend a lot of time on the road doing stories. I've spent a lot of time on the road in the last decade doing stories about places that are really badly in decline.

35:18There's there's that's just it. And I can see how if you say it has not worked like neoliberalism, a word I love, has not worked. Free markets have not worked. Reagan, Clinton, NAFTA screwed us all. We need to get it back. I truly do find that compelling. And I think J.D. Vance and the Republicans articulate it well. Sure. Yeah, I think the only thing is it didn't work then either for most people. It just worked for a small group. It wasn't as if that was the answer either because it left out enormous amounts of people and stuff. And I do think there is a power. You know, you either have Obama's hope or you have Donald Trump's American carnage.

35:58They both work. Anyway, what is the creepiest thing you find about J.D. Vance to end? Following her around with the plane? I wanted J.D. Vance's quota day calendar. I think the most interesting thing about J.D. Vance was this series of emails that he exchanged with a classmate at Yale. And in one of those emails, he said, I hate the police. And I thought to myself, I don't know why anyone with any thoughts of the future would put that in writing. I just don't understand that. Because he probably thought it. You know, I've been at events with him and at one dinner, I thought, oh, my God, I wouldn't say that.

36:36I'm a liberal, but that's too liberal. I literally thought that's too liberal. Yes. It wasn't quite America's Hitler, which is what he called a thing. But I was like, well, that's really dark and too – I remember thinking he's too liberal. It's just not thought through. It is this sweeping statement that just does not reflect well on him. It was apocalyptic, but in a very liberal way. Like it's – you know, by the way, when you get very anything, you come around to the other side. You're just – you have the same kind of things. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about X's lawsuit against advertisers and take a listener mail question about the future of the TikTok ban.

37:15Remember that?

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40:06All right, Cara, we're back with our second big story. So we're talking about one of your favorite people and his latest lawsuit. X filed a federal antitrust lawsuit against the World Federation of Advertisers. So that group has a brand safety initiative. And this lawsuit alleges that the brand safety initiative and big companies that are members, CVS, Unilever, big guys here, conspired to illegally boycott X and deprive it of millions of dollars. Now, remind us, Cara, for those of us who have forgotten, why did advertisers flee X? Well, it's easy. He told them not to advertise on his site. He told them to go fuck themselves.

40:43He told them he's going to let, you know, he's creating this lovely Nazi porn bar, as I like to call it. It's an astonishing lawsuit. And, of course, it was introduced by, you know, if you want to continue with Nazis, the Eva Braun of this situation, Linda Iaccarino, who just did this weird hostage-like video where she's such a scold as a person. Anyway, it was introduced this idea that the idea is that advertisers are plotting against them. They're conspiracy minded people. And she has a situation where she's the purported, I call her CEO and name only, Sino. She thinks that people have to advertise on their site even if they don't like what they're doing on their site.

41:29And it's so anti-capitalist. It's so ridiculous. This whole case, this guy went out of his way to tell advertisers to go fuck themselves a number, not just once, but a dozen times, essentially. And now he doesn't like what he's reaping, which is that he took away safety. He took away, he re-platformed all these terrible people, you know. And then, of course, he's doing it in the name of free speech. But then he cuts the speech of people he doesn't like, by the way. He's apparently suppressing Kamala Harris' stuff right now on the site. He closed down the dudes for Kamala Harris for a second. You know, he just, this is just endless bullshit by these people.

42:07But it's very base. If advertisers don't want to advertise on your shitty platform, they shouldn't be made to. And even if they get together and say, isn't it a shitty platform? It doesn't mean it's illegal. It's just, God, this is a shitty platform. And Linda Yakarina, who worked for NBC, would have understood this rather easily. I don't want to advertise where it's unsafe, where I'm going to suddenly be next to Andrew Tate or whoever it happens to be. It's just this is just fucking nonsense. It's just he posted also, of course, because he's such a conspiracy minded person. We tried peace for two years.

42:41Now it's war. Well, if that was peace, I can't wait for the war because. What is this reference? I'm actually really curious about this. Has he done outreach to advertisers? Like what? You know, every time he does it, he shows up like this was, you know, at this deal book summit last year. he told advertisers to fuck off, including specifically Disney, specifically Bob Iger. You know, he essentially said, fuck you, Bob. And I don't know why they would advertise. It's like, it's not illegal not to advertise, especially after you've made it a joke that you want to do this. And a former FTC policy director told Rolling Stone the lawsuit, it's a hideous joke and Elon is engaging in a fantasy world of antitrust.

43:22You know, we just had a really important antitrust decision around Google, but this isn't antitrust in any way. But what he—so, very curious about this. Let's get inside his head for a second. It doesn't seem like antitrust. It is still a lawsuit. Does he think—does Elon think there is an antitrust wave to be ridden here that perhaps a judge will find this sympathetic? What is he trying to do when it seems— They have court shopped, right? They're putting it in this court where this other lawsuit is going on against, I think it's Media Matters. where they just were reporting that it's more unsafe than ever on Twitter, which anyone who uses it, I don't use it anymore because it's unsafe.

44:01And so, you know, he has another lawsuit where this judge has been ruling a little bit in his favor, allowing discovery to happen before it's even determined it's a case, which is expensive to media matters and probably put it out of business. He sued OpenAI, and then he unsued them, and now he's suing them again. He sued another group that Roberta Kaplan, actually, who did the Eugene Carroll case, was dismissed. You know, this is his love language, his lawsuits, right? Like, is he winning anything tangible? No. No, but this judge is predisposed to it. And they judge shopped, essentially, where they're putting this thing.

44:38And so he's just, it doesn't matter. Like, this is a tactic that Peter Thiel uses. Like, let's just sue them. And so they, you know, it's expensive. It's ridiculous. It's they may maybe they'll give in. Guess who does this? Donald Trump. Let's not pay them. Let them sue us. And then maybe we'll pay less. And I think this is his tactic. And, you know, one of the things that's important here is years ago when someone was talking about a lawsuit and I called them and they said they think they're going to shame you. And the guy goes, well, I'm shameless. So that's going to be a problem. And this guy is shameless.

45:12That's all. You know, they've been trying to do this idea with representatives like Jim Jordan around advertising that they're anti-conservative bias. And again, this is a Texas judge, I think it is, who's doing this. So that's what they're trying to do is judge shop and put it in a place where at least it doesn't go away. So that's where it is. Can we just briefly, you know Lindy Akerino. You've met her. Oh, yeah. I've spent a lot of time with her. I have dozens of emails from her. She used to bring me to NBC events to moderate stuff. Did she? Yes. The video in which Lindy Icarino announces this lawsuit is deeply strange, right?

45:53She's wall-eyed. She looks nervous. She's using big expressive hand gestures. Are we to – what are we to make of this? Why does she look – if she's fully on board, maybe she's not, why does it look like a hostage video? Like what's going on? She's a CEO. Look, she's just a terrible, she's a terrible, terrible communicator. She was head of advertising at NBC, but they didn't want to make her CEO at NBC. There was, she thought she should be, when one of the, you know, one of the various and sundry people left, she thought she should be CEO. They had no interest in her CEO, and then she went out and tried to get this job at Twitter, which I actually broke the news of, which is interesting.

46:34But, you know, she styles herself as a CEO and I guess she took CEO classes and decided tough lady thing. You know, it's just pathetic because there's so few women CEOs. She's so bad at it. It's embarrassing. This is what I wrote on Threads. The truth is Linda is a tiresome scold of an executive with an alleged rep for yelling at minions, according to numerous sources. That's what a lot of people tell me. She certainly threw a loud fit at one of my events, and I talked about that. But she's – I call her an epic corporate laughingstock and a vaguely depressing lackey. I think she's all in for Elon.

47:09She's a conservative, which is great. But she's one of those conservatives, right? Like cannot entertain anybody that thinks he's a jerk, right, or anything like that. And so she's unrealistic and ambitious and, you know, and so she goes along with him. She's closed the San Francisco office. She lost, you know, a number of people who worked for her a long time and left or has been fired by her. And she's all in with Elon. So she's not a hostage in any way. I was teasing when I said it looks like a hostage video. It's not. But it does. I mean, like, yes, you were joking. You know her. To me, somebody who doesn't know her, it actually does.

47:46Yeah. It does look like that. I hope someday, you know, I can't say I liked her a lot because she's sort of this tough ad lady. I call her an ad lady from Queens, which annoys her, which I think I'll do again. I suspect 10 years from a show she'll call me and say, that was so bad, I'm so sorry. Like, you know, maybe, but maybe not. You know, I think she really believes in this guy, you know, and she's getting a bill of goods. And this is her big moment. She's getting paid. She's hoping to get paid a lot. I'll tell you something. She's going to, it's going to end up the same place everyone who works for him ends up, which is in a lawsuit with them, right?

48:18Or some fight. Did you see what Elon is doing in the UK? That's dangerous. That's actually dangerous. He's also doing it here with a lot of like, he has packs here that are doing things that are being investigated. No, he's got his little fingers and everything, including saving people at the space station. This guy is a dangerous character. And what he's doing in Britain, where he he's been criticizing the prime minister, the new prime minister, following this terrible stabbing attack. But he's been pushing misinformation about who did it. And he's putting out, you know, he just had to take one down today.

48:54But what he did, he posted civil war is inevitable. He's creating all kinds of misinformation. And so, and he's platformed a lot of these people who are organizing all these violent protests. They seem to be stemming the tide because regular people came out and said that's enough, right, essentially. Last night, there was a worry that it was going to explode again, and then it didn't. We did a story on this. We got an email from The Guardian reporter and she told us, you know, she hangs up the phone on my way out to the protests and she said it didn't happen. So, right. Bless. Yeah. Right. It didn't.

49:26I mean, these things tend to they do tend to burn themselves up. But these are dangerous people who thrive on violence. Right. And so, you know, he's I can't believe I'm saying this, but he's like trying to be Rupert Murdoch, except Murdoch is controlled about how he decimates society. You know what I mean? Like he's like a violent I mean, the pushing of violence, saying civil arrest is inevitable, putting out incorrect memes, platforming people who are lying, creating all kinds of fake videos. It's very dangerous. And you could just a little taste of what he was going to do here in this country if he has the ability.

50:02He's already putting out Kamala Harris as a communist and, you know, all kinds of stuff. I mean, he's a dangerous person. How much influence? All right. I was thinking about this. We did the story. We learned that a lot of the young men in the UK that are out in the streets are kind of like angry about immigration, loosely affiliated, maybe far right, maybe just kind of pissed off and likes a fight. Likes a fight. What I wonder is, what is the moment when Elon Musk and this crap loses credibility with them? All right, hear me out. Civil war is inevitable. Civil war doesn't happen. Do we wake up then and say, oh, that guy was wrong.

50:36That guy's repeatedly wrong. I don't believe him anymore. Welcome to this person he's interviewing on Monday, Donald Trump. No, we don't. Right? No. Like, you know, it's interesting. A friend of mine was working on a story about sexual harassment, things around someone. And they were asking if, you know, if people at the company were concerned about it. And I said, can I try to get something through to you? They don't care. They don't care. Like, nobody, the people who are for Trump do not care that he's racist. They do not care he's misogynist. They don't care. And that, I think, is something you have to get your head around.

51:12The same thing with Elon, these people who follow him. He's accountable to no one. He's the richest person in the world. And this is something UK's technology minister said. He's accountable to no one. And he controls very – in this case, both of them could control very important things, right? And so, you know, no, I think people who follow him like him. And they don't go, oh, look, he was wrong again. Look, he was wrong again. Look, he was, you know, look, he was, remember he was backing DeSantis and then he was backing R.F.K. Jr. Then he was, you know, he's been wrong frequently. It just doesn't, they drop, one of the strengths of misinformation is when you have a piece of misinformation and it doesn't turn out to be true, you move to the next one, right?

51:54You don't stay here and go, oh, you don't have a contemplation situation. And let me tell you, I started talking about my mom, but I did an interview with Hillary Clinton. And a couple days later, my mom called me and she goes, she goes, oh, Hillary Clinton's saying terrible things about people like me. And I'm like, what? What is she saying now? And she started repeating things. I'm like, oh, that sounds like my interview, but that's not what she said, right? It was completely, it was a complete mutation of what she said, like a very vicious one. And I said, no, no, that was my interview. She didn't say that.

52:29And my mother said, oh, she said it. And I was like, no, she didn't. She said it to me. I'm your daughter. and I did the interview. She did not say that. No, you're wrong. She said it. This was a conversation I had. So I said, why don't you go back and listen to the interview and then call me back? And she listened to it and she called me back. She says, okay, she didn't say it. But let me talk about the emails. Like she moved, like the fact that she was wrong was not something that mattered. Yep. So I think that's what's happening here. On to the next, on to the next. Yeah, because and then Elon keeps up the bread and circuses with them, right?

52:58So now. Yeah, he'll be on to something new by next week, right? Oh, no. And then he attacks trans people. Well, his daughter is giving him a lesson in social media. I saw that. She's terrific. She's really good. It's interesting because her sense of humor is not like the way his used to be, which was – she's very clever. She's killing it on social media, I have to say, because she's sick of her father putting stuff out about her in her life that isn't true and has apparently decided that's enough. I've had enough of you and stealing my narrative, which I think is great. Anyway, I recommend everybody following her.

53:32Okay, Noelle, let's pivot to a listener question.

53:41This question came in via email. I'll read it. Given VP Harris's instant success on the TikTok platform, I'm curious what you both think will happen at TikTok should VP Harris win the presidency. How will this influence the Congress's position on TikTok? Thanks, Ian from Chicago. P.S. Love the show. So just for clarification, last week, a spokesperson for Harris said the VP has said before, we don't want to ban TikTok. We would just like to see a change in ownership. Now, of course, that's the situation in which Congress passed, which will ban TikTok if it doesn't have a change in ownership. So she's for banning TikTok, I guess.

54:16It's kind of a little wordplay there. But your thoughts? I don't think anything's going to change because TikTok is powerful. I get it. I don't think Kamala Harris is going to change any of her positions because a lot of people made memes about her. I don't think that changes her mind at all. I think she probably thinks it's great if it helps her win an election, but I don't see a link here. I don't see a link. Yeah, I think she's not going to. I think Congress has passed this law. We'll see where it goes. There'll probably be a change of ownership. We'll see what the Chinese government does. But I suspect knowing her a little bit, she is a lawyer at heart, right?

54:51She's a litigator. And she probably does understand this better than Biden, never could. that the constitutional issues are quite significant here in terms of banning this thing. And it may not ever go anywhere. So I think she knows a little bit more about where it's headed. Secondly, probably in terms of national security, she probably has more heft in that regard. So as with a lot of things with Harris, and I'd love your comment, she seems to be trying to go right down the middle on everything, like whether it was now fracking or Gaza or whatever. She seems to be trying to take a very modulated position.

55:28I think she'll do that here. What about you? Yeah. Yeah, I think she's I think she has to. I mean, the the critique is going to be she's a wild eyed lefty. Look at her positions in the 2020 campaign, which did not go well for her. And so her moving more into the center absolutely makes a lot of sense to me. She wants to win an election. She is not trying to distinguish herself from a Joe Biden and a Beto O 'Rourke, whoever the heck. I can't, it was four years ago. I can't remember, but there were so many of them. She's not trying to distinguish herself from all those guys and gals this time. She's trying to win an election.

56:05And moderating is a way to do that. Yeah, I have to tell you, having covered, having known her since she was district attorney in San Francisco, even before she was running for that. No kidding. Yeah, when she was a local prosecutor. You know, I remember going to one of her when my son was just a baby. It's a very funny story. He threw a biscuit at her head and she came over and she goes, I'm going to arrest him. It was very cute.

56:31And I have found her not very liberal, honestly. For San Francisco, she's very conservative. And I've always found her a modulating person. I think that 2020 thing was – she always seems to find the center. even with I used to argue with her about internet stuff I'm like you could be a little tougher but she's always like on one hand on the other she's a little more I never found her to be a while I know a lot of liberals from San Francisco and she wasn't she I wouldn't have put her in that bucket in any way she she loved the tech moguls she she wasn't like hostile to them she was she was critical but not hostile you know I don't think it's kind of a lie that she's crazy liberals because she's not, I don't know.

57:12We'll see. But in 2020, she certainly, definitely went down that road. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. It's a good question. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Noelle, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

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1:00:33for now. That's This Week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

1:00:43Okay, Noelle, we're going to do a round-robin of predictions here, so get ready. Who's going to play Tim Walls on Saturday Night Live this year? A lot of people are clamoring for Steve Martin to play him, but Martin says he declined, and they obviously asked him they need a real impressionist to do it. Maya Rudolph has already been signed on to play Kamala. She's done a fantastic job, by the way, so far. Thoughts? I'm going to confess, I do have a tiny bit of face blindness. And so everybody looks like everybody else to me. So Tim Walls, I'm having, I'm actually having trouble with his face. John Goodman?

1:01:12Yeah, I was thinking that, John Goodman. Were you really? John Goodman. I Googled earlier today, I Googled actors that look like a dad. John Goodman came up. So that was how I. From Roseanne. Yeah, yeah, of course. Speaking of which, the bear. We're not going to go there. Even she, crazy Roseanne, thought it was crazy. So I think John Goodman's a good idea. John Goodman. Although they might get someone you don't know. Like they've done a great job with replacing Alec Baldwin with a guy who's doing Trump very well. Who does the great impressions. Right. Exactly. Steve Martin's point. Yeah. So I don't know.

1:01:44I think Steve Martin would have been good. But Maya Rudolph is brilliant. There's a lot of compilations of her doing Kamala Harris. And they're very funny. They're much funnier now. And they're actually on point. There is one where she does a song, My Name is Kamala. It rhymes with Mamala. She does this song. That's very funny. Anyway, well, it's going to be fun. It's going to be fun. And also there's the bear with RFK Jr. There's J.D. Vance's Creepitude. There's so much for Santa. Anyway, last one. The DNC is a little over a week away. We'll be hearing a lot from politicians. Who do you think the entertainment will be and should be?

1:02:24You get several choices. Go ahead. Oh, should be. Okay, will be Charlie XCX, Miranda Lambert, Tracy Chapman, and Luke Combs. Still crying over that. I don't know. Entertainment is a place where I'm not very good. Name names. It doesn't have to be entertainers. I mean, so Taylor wouldn't do it. Beyonce wouldn't do it. There are people who are just too big. Are they? Are they? Do you think no? Say more. I think they should do it. I think the two of them, here's my idea. The two of them, Beyonce and Taylor Swift, sing America the Beautiful. I think that's the song. I forget the name of it. It's the one, God Shed His Grace on Thee, which is my favorite one because it's nice.

1:03:08And then the Star Spangled Banner, they sing it together. They sing it together. And then they both do the big note that's hard to get to at the top, Land of the Free. There's an expression. They put it on such a note so high nobody can reach it. It's a great line. They do it together. You're going to be inside the convention. I know. You may see it. You may see it. I know. That's what I would do. Here's what I would do. Simone Biles as a speaker. Love it. Love it. She did such a good black job. And she did the best black job. She was smiling. She just, I love Simone Biles always smiling. I would love to hear a speech from her.

1:03:46Even her interviews. She's so like, I'm like, say more. Say more, please. She's magnetic. Magnetic. She is a magnetic person. Really, truly. I was trying to think Ryan Reynolds, you know, because he has a big hit movie. Like Barbie. I don't know. Margot Robbie, so, so inoffensive. A delightful woman. Issa Rae. Issa Rae. She was president in Barbie. Anyway, stuff like that. But like take the flags, take patriotism, switch the word from, you know, the risk to democracy to we're for freedom. That's the kind of thing they need to do. And there's got to be an entertainer. I still think Taylor Swift.

1:04:26She did that picture. You saw that picture she did, right? I did. And it is unclear to me what happened because isn't her campaign, Taylor's campaign, aren't they denying that it is a shadow of Kamala Harris in the picture? It's a dancer of hers. It's a dancer of hers who looks like Kamala Harris in. Yes. Why did she pick that picture? No, no. I don't believe the people of Taylor Swift land because she does this all the time. There are, she literally goes into liner notes and puts little Easter eggs. She's an Easter egg lady. Like, she does this. She does it all the time with wordplay and everything else.

1:05:00Anybody else? Anyone else you'd like to see up there? Oh, I mean, who did the RNC have? Kid Rock, Hulk Hogan. Who's sort of gone to the middle, very clearly conservative now. The Rock. I mean, not conservative, whatever. Oh, The Rock. Yeah. Somebody wrote a very smart line about him the other day about The Rock understanding the marketplace so well that you never really know where he's at. But he's good at it. He's very good at it. Remember people were talking about The Rock for president? Moana 2 is coming up. Is it really? I didn't know they were making a second movie. See, this is why I know you're a childless cat or dog owner.

1:05:33Because I don't know what the... Yes, you and J.D. Vance, go ahead and mock me. I have a pug. I have a pug. He does know Moana's coming, I'm guessing. If he has small kids, anyone who has small kids, Moana 2, Frozen 3 and 4. More Frozen. And a live-action Moana. Frozen is the vein of every parent's existence. You must be so pleased not to know about it. My niece will sing the songs, and I'm like, go for it. I'm here for 10 minutes. Go for it, girl. I actually texted Bob Iajar. I go, go fuck yourself. How dare you do this to me? Using your connections for good. I'm like, no, stop it. And then he wrote back.

1:06:12He goes, Moana, too, coming. And I was like, ah, whatever. Good luck. Good luck. They're doing great with Inside Out, too. But you don't have to care about these things. You get to go to adult movies where adults are. It's so nice. It must be nice. Anyway, that's the show. Tell us what you have coming up on Today Explained. Lots of news. News of the day, every day, one great story. Dive in. We make it fun for you. You'll love it. What's your favorite nonpolitical news right now? Oh, oh, nonpolitical news. Okay, wait. Let me just see what's coming up. Oh, should I have done this? I'm doing a show about online dating in which I share with listeners what I do when I'm not online dating.

1:06:54And yeah, you have to tune in. I'm not sure this is going to go over well. I never online dated. You did it? Oh, I hate you. No, I've been going out with someone since seventh grade. I have never been single. Just for a month. I was single for a month. Wow. I am filled with resentment. Don't be. Because I was literally like, I don't understand it. But I just, it's easier being a lesbian, I'll tell you that. Holy crap. Yeah, we'll see. Well, I've also been divorced and broken up with lots of people. So it's not been that smooth. Honestly, my wife should divorce me. She's wonderful. Anyway, we'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot.

1:07:33Noelle, thank you so much for doing this. And I recommend everybody listen to Today Explain. Great show. Great host. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I will read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Aaliyah Jackson engineered this episode. Nishat Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

1:08:05And again, Noelle, thank you so much for being on the show. And everybody listen to Today Explained.

1:08:12Thank you.