Trump & Fascism, Character.AI Sued for Teen Suicide, and Tesla Beats Earnings Expectations

24:36These guys, maybe it's not murder, but it's manslaughter. Either because of a lack of regard, because of recklessness, these sentient beings have programmed algorithms or not put in place the safeguards that result in a 14-year-old believing he can trust the instructions and dialogue from someone he thinks he's in a relationship with. Yeah, these are drug dealers. This is what they are. I'm sorry. I do agree sometimes some of this is alarmist, like some of the AI stuff, some of the, you know. There is some responsibility that people have, but in this case, this is a dead clear example. And I hope this mother, who sounds fantastic, and she's a lawyer herself, as I said, she understands this, they find a legal way to take these people, take them for everything they have, and make an example of them.

25:29That is my hope. That is my great hope as this happens. And anything we can do to help that, please let us know. These products are more mendacious than drugs because if my 14-year-old was going into the bathroom, locking himself in the bathroom for 10, 20, 30 minutes and saying, you know, give me privacy or whatever, and he came out and he was higher than a kite, I would know it. But if he's in there with a relationship with a bot that is getting deeper and deeper, it's such that he trusts this bot when it encourages him to kill himself. Right. Right. These parents had no idea. They had no idea.

26:08There's no way to fight this as a parent. There's no way. You cannot monitor your kid 24-7. So it's pretty simple. It's not additional safety concerns or jazz hands or thoughts and prayers. We need age gating. The technology is not safe enough. Let me get this. When I was 17, I couldn't see the exorcist, but now at 14, you can establish a relationship with a synthetic partner that might tell you to kill yourself. That's what I read it as. Okay, come home to me. Oh, my God. It was like I could see a kid with no friends getting completely wrapped around this in a second. And there's so many kids like that.

26:41There's so many kids, every kid. And by the way, even kids that are much more well adjusted and social, they have these problems too, right? So nobody is immune from this to get involved in this. It's happening. I know loneliness is a real problem, but this is not the answer to it. This is absolutely not the answer to it. Anyway, we have to move on, but read this story. It's, Kevin, well done. I have to say well done, Kevin. And this mother, anything we can do to help you, we will do. Okay, let's get to our first big story.

27:14Tesla shares are up 13 % after reporting Q3 earnings that beat expectations. Revenue increased 8 % to$25.2 billion, and net income rose 17 % to$2.2 billion. It was largely due to higher sales of regulatory credits for other automakers. He gets regulatory credits for being an electric car company, and it's like carbon credits. So it's not really a business, but it is kind of. He's, of course, depending on the government to make more money here. On the earnings call, CEO Elon Musk said he guessed his vehicle growth will reach 20 % to 30 % in the next year. I don't see how that's based on anything.

27:47That's a big guess on his part, but he says whatever he wants. He said all of the company's cars moving forward will be autonomous, that Tesla is currently making on the order of 35 ,000 autonomous vehicles a week. Anything surprising here? I don't trust his forecast, but he can say whatever he wants. He also said they're going to produce 2 million cybercabs a year eventually. He wasn't very specific and offered driverless ride hailing as early as 2025. Again, he was saying someday in the streets of San Francisco, you'll be able to. And by the way, you can do it right now. I'm going to take a driverless ride-hailing Waymo to my event today.

28:25He's saying customers can ride anywhere in the Bay Area. He noted they have a safety driver. They're doing it now. They're way behind on that issue. But whatever, he's jazz-handsing that. Talk about these results. And the recent RoboTaxi event wasn't a very good one. And he's just sort of doubling down on it because nobody's paying attention. But what do you think? Well, there's no getting around it. It was a great corridor. stocks, as we sit here recording, the stock's up 17%. Their deliveries are up 6%, which is strong in the auto industry. It's not remarkable, but it's strong. They say the Cybertruck made a profit, which shocked me.

29:00I thought that thing was a turd, but they claim it's now making a profit. And they also, he forecasted 30 % growth in vehicles next year. Now, I don't know how he gets from 6 % to 30%. I didn't listen to the earnings call, but obviously they're excited about that. Total revenue increased 8%. But the thing, this is really a story of product mix that resulted in margin expansion. And that is gross margins increased almost 200 basis points and net income was up 17%. And it's because they are in fact, the other businesses are really strong that are higher margins. So things like storage batteries, which are used by utilities, businesses and homeowners, those sales increased 52 % and revenues from services such as charging jumped 29%.

29:48And so far, they have deployed more battery storage products this year than it did in all of 2023. So to their credit, the analysts who try and justify what I see as an outsized valuation say it's not a car company, it's an energy company, a software company. And the product mix here, the growth in higher margin products that they offer resulted in an increase of substantial off a small sales increase, a substantial increase in margin, and a substantial increase in earnings. And the market just loves it. There's no getting around it. Great quarter for them. Yeah. One of the things I thought was interesting away from these credits, which I don't think that's a business.

30:27I'm sorry. I just don't. That's not an actual. That's getting credits and selling them. And I get that you can do that, but it seems like it's not to me, is these other businesses. It's sort of like software and services for Apple, right? You're looking like that they have other things that are growing more importantly, and that's where they really need to focus. I do think all this RoboTaxi stuff is jazz hands right now because there's so many competitors and I don't think they'll do well in this area. I don't believe it's going to grow 20, 30 percent, but he can push me wrong, but it doesn't seem like given how competitive the market is.

30:58But I think this is not, you're right, this is not a car company. It's something else. It's not what he's saying it is, which is an AI company. It is the energy stuff where they're way ahead of people. That is where they're justifiably way ahead of everybody else. And they should take advantage of things. Meanwhile, the company behind Blade Runner 2049 has sued Elon Musk for copyright infringement, saying Musk illegally used imagery from the film to promote Tesla robo-taxis. I don't think he cares. He doesn't care about lawsuits. He doesn't. The same thing on the legal front with the DOJ warning his pact that the billion-dollar giveaway may violate federal law.

31:36As we said last week, he does not care, and he's not going to get in trouble for it, and he knows this. And so he's taking a calculated risk with both Trump and using these imageries, is that he can drag them through courts forever, and eventually no one's going to get anything for it, and he doesn't lose, and he benefited from it. And this is his playbook every single time for people who get all up and, you know, all like, can you believe he did that? He does it all. He's done it throughout his career. Yeah, agreed. I don't have anything to add to that. Yeah. In other earnings, Starbucks posted, this was interesting, preliminary quarterly results showing yet another fall in sales as the company attempts to switch its strategy.

32:14By the way, a company that has not changed, that experience is the same as it was 10 years ago when you go into one of their stores. Preliminary, except for more digital, I guess, preliminary net sales fell 3 % to$9.1 billion. The same store sales fell 7%. The company's new CEO, Brian Nicol, who comes from Chipotle, said he plans to fundamentally change strategy. He fundamentally has to. Talk a little bit. Nicol is off a six-year run at Chipotle where the stock price increased about 800 % since he took over in 2018 when it was in real trouble for issues around health safety, which is all over the food market right now, by the way, McDonald's and other companies.

32:52But this is a very sharp and canny executive. This is a product that hasn't changed at all, speaking of not having other revenue streams or other offerings or feeling like it's fresh. I kept wondering, every single financial advisor in the world, their first piece of advice on how to start building economic security is they say, stop going to Starbucks. Stop buying those$6 and$7 lattes. And if you do two a day, that's$70, that's$200, that's$3 ,000 a year on coffee. And if you do that, I mean, essentially, if you just brought your own coffee to work from the age of 22 and invested all the money you spent on coffee and put it into low-cost index funds, you'd have a couple million bucks by the time you were our age.

33:35I wonder how many are actually listening, too. Your notion is the right one. Starbucks has a very kind of 2000 late image feel to it right now. I go to the one in Soho sometimes, and I just don't know. If I walked in there and I walked out, it's how I feel about grocery stores. You know, grocery stores, you feel like you're in 1990. Except Wegmans. They do a great job. By the way, the one that got away was one of the heiresses to the Wegman fortune. You told me that. Once again, I don't believe you. It's like Patti Stonecipher. Once again. Oh, no, no, no. We were very much in love. We were very much in love.

34:09I mean, not as intense and deep a relationship as my relationship with Patty or Emily Ratajkowski, but no, like a wonderful woman. She was a doctor. Anyway, so what would you do here? What's to be done? Maybe things just die. Like, remember the limited? Like, it just died. It's just we're done with that. No, this is an amazing business. It's just I think, look, at the end of the day, they probably need to close 20 to 30 percent of their stores and 50 percent of their stores in China. Their sales were down 14 percent in China. Their strategy, I remember them saying that when we open up, when we open, the more Starbucks we own, the bigger the sales in every store.

34:47It's not countable. I mean, they've just, their growth has just been figure out a model and expand it. They've just, this is a great opportunity for an operator with cloud cover to come in and say, it's going to be a smaller, much more profitable business. And I'm sure I would think, and again, I love this idea of a fallen angels basket of stocks, but they have good IP. It is a great brand, and it'd be a lot of fun to just kind of go through over the next three, five, seven years as leases expire and just say we're going to be a smaller company, but we're going to get rid of the non-profitable stores.

35:23It's a franchise. It's still a big part of people's life. And the reality is the best business in the world is to sell an addictive product, and caffeine is. Here's my advice. Make better coffee. It sucks. You don't like their coffee? You don't like Starbucks? I don't. I think it's fine. Amanda refuses to go there, but I'm coming around because there's so many good, innovative coffee places that are cheaper. Amanda's just traumatized by your I surrender wardrobe. See how I brought it back to an earlier point in the conversation? I see you brought it back, but here's interesting. I've always had amazingly hot girlfriends.

35:58How did that happen? Okay, hold on. Because you're rich. No, no. The same reason I get to sleep with hot women because my daddy stands on his wallet and he looks pretty attractive. No, because we're interesting and engaging and just dead sexy people is what we are in our own unsexy way. No. That's correct. Because we like songs like Kayser Osiris. You become one of these pathetic anchors who leaves this chair and starts doing like some weird show somewhere. All of a sudden, Amanda's like, I've outgrown you. We don't have any shared values anymore. anymore. No, she's not. It's only up and to the right for Kara Swisher the rest of her life.

36:37I'm sorry to tell you that. But in any case. I'm up and to the Emily. Did she ask about me? Did she ask about me? Oh, God, you're never, never. Oh, my God. I'm going to find her somehow. You know who recently texted me who's a fan of ours? Drew Barrymore. Oh, she's lovely. She picked my book. I saw her at my favorite restaurant, Black Eyed Susan's in Nantucket. She's actually very pretty. Yeah, she's lovely. Lovely. A little too emotional, a little too feeling for me. I couldn't deal with all that. Oh, stop it. She's given us more entertainment. True Barrymore? Value for her life. She has been in so many movies that have been so great, and she deserves everything she gets.

37:14So many movies that are so great. Name three. Oh, my God. All of them. The Wedding Singer, Charlie's Angels, E.T. I'm sorry. Hold on. Charlie's Angels? I love Charlie's Angels. I'm sorry. I love it. That makes me laugh. You've lost all credibility. I love it. It makes me laugh. Everything. She's been in so many movies that are so good. I just like that she tried to break the writer's strike. I love that she's a scab. Join me, Drew. Oh, stop it. Don't insult Drew to me. I don't think that's an insult. In any case. We are all over the map right now. Starbucks, you need to make better coffee. There's cheaper, better coffee everywhere else.

37:48It costs too much for the shitty coffee you serve. And I can get a better thing from a lovely little store that's charming. That's my feeling. I like Le Cologne. What are your favorites? This interesting one is Blank Street around you. It started small and now it's going all over the place. And their coffee's quite good. But I usually go to individual coffee shops because they're the same price and it's a small business. I like that better. I tend to go to those. I'm sorry. Castle Christmas, the stand-in, miss you already, blended, big miracle, going the distance, everyone's fine, whip it. Should I continue here?

38:22Lucky you. I like Dunkin' Donuts. I'll tell you, I like Dunkin' Donuts. They make great coffee. These are Drew Barrymore movies that I'm reading. Listen, all right. We're done with that. Stop insulting her. Duplex. They had duplex. She does seem nice. I'll give her that. But I like Dunkin' Donuts. I would say that's the finest coffee in the land for a low price, a low much lower price. And they have donuts. Oh, she was in altered states. She must have been like two years old. Okay. Yes. Remember she played the, she was like the fire starter. Wasn't she in Firestarter? Yeah. As a little kid. Also in E.T.

38:54She was great in E.T. Come on. More entertainment value per pound. She was in that hit, Never Been Kissed. Never Been Kissed was really good. But what about the movie Home Fries? She's been in a lot of movies. I'm just talking about pure fun entertainment. Drew Berman has delivered. I'm sorry, she's delivered for us. She has? Yeah, people like her TV show. I'm just saying, she's delivered. And a lot of people haven't delivered pound for pound. I'm sorry, they just haven't. You win. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Sorry, Drew. I want to see her most recent film for Netflix, A Castle for Christmas. Is that like right up there with We Bought a Zoo?

39:28You know what? Listen to me. Pound for pound. Pound for? I'm not going to get you near him when we go out. We're not going to let him near you. Anyway, I've introduced you to Megan Rapinoe and all these lovely, amazing pound for pound great values. No, I'm not into the straight women. I'm into the lesbians now. I know, but great value. That's my new thing. If you're pound for pound, you're great. The value you add is how I do it. It's based on weight? No, just as an expression, pound for pound. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Kamala Harris's not-so-secret supporters and donors and a listener mail question about teaching kids how to negotiate.

40:03Ooh, Scott, you'll like that one.

40:08There is a lot to talk about when we talk about Donald Trump and Jimmy Kimmel. One big question I've got is why, in 2025, are late-night TV shows, like Jimmy Kimmel's show, still on TV? Even in our diminished times. Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, they're just some of the biggest faces of their networks. If you start taking the biggest faces off your networks, you might save some nickels and dimes. But what are you even anymore? What even is your brand anymore? I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels. And that was James Ponowozik, the TV critic for The New York Times. This week, we're talking about Trump and Kimmel, free speech, and a TV format that's remained surprisingly durable for now.

40:57That's This Week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

41:06Scott, we're back with our second big story as the podcast selection continues. Both presidential candidates have big interviews coming up this week. Former President Donald Trump will be talking to Joe Rogan on Friday as part of a push to win over young male voters. Vice President Kamala Harris, who should go under Joe Rogan, is headed to Houston, where she'll be sitting down with Brene Brown. And this just in, The Washington Post is reporting that Beyonce is expected to appear with Harris in Houston on Friday. That's where Beyonce's from. These podcast interviews generate buzz. Is Diddy having a party?

41:33Is Diddy. I'm sorry. But do they matter? We think they do. You've called it the year of the podcast. The USA Today poll found that fewer than 30 % of respondents have listened to either candidate on popular podcasts. But those who listen say they're more likely to vote for Trump after those appearances than Harris that said there was a really interesting CNN group of really smart voters for the first time, undecided voters. I thought they were very thoughtful, who were talking about her appearance on CNN. I think it does make an impact maybe in a small way. What do you think of these appearances?

42:05And of course, Elon Musk, really, he's jumping around and doing events. Look, this is exactly the right strategy. Go on huge podcasts. It's exactly the wrong execution. Trump should be with Brene Brown. He needs to soften his image. She has a very thoughtful, feminine feel to herself. She absolutely should be on Rogan. She needs to appeal to young men. So they're both going, they're both playing defense. They're both going to where they're already loved. I just, this is genius. They just got the podcast mixed up. Oh, I like that idea. That's interesting. That's an interesting, you're right. You're right in a lot of ways.

42:43She definitely should go on, Rogan, no question. She should have gone on first. Anyway, another thing that's getting a lot of traction, actually, a lot of polls are showing this. Trump's former chief of staff, John Kelly, spoke to The New York Times this week, warning that Trump met the definition of a fascist, would rule like a dictator, no conception of law. He was his longest chief of staff. Kelly also told The Times, The Atlantic, that Trump had spoken positively of Hitler several times. And General Mark Milley, former chairman of the Joint Chiefs, was quoted in Bob Weirder's new book, Calling Trump a Fascist to the Core.

43:11Kamala Harris was asked about this by Anderson Cooper at CNN's town hall on Wednesday night. She hasn't really leaned into this as much, and now she is. Let's listen. You've quoted General Milley calling Donald Trump a fascist. You yourself have not used that word to describe him. Let me ask you tonight, do you think Donald Trump is a fascist? Yes, I do. Yes, I do. And I also believe that the people who know him best on this subject should be trusted. We've known about these dictator aspirations for a while, But again, do you think his supporters care? I don't think they do. Harris is also set to give her campaign's closing argument next week at the Ellipse in D.C., the site of Donald Trump's speech on January 6, 2021.

43:49I thought that was a pretty fantastic idea. So what do you think of these, whether it matters or not? This seems to be sinking in a little bit more, this Hitler stuff. And by the way, as a personal note, Threads kicked off all these people, including my wife Amanda, for saying they don't like Hitler. It was crazy. And then they fixed it really quickly, said it was a mistake and an error. But Amanda just said Hitler's not a good guy. And she got kicked off. Yeah, but the algorithm picked up Hitler and kicked her off. I get it. But what a fuck up that was. Anyway, what do you think about this, these topics?

44:25Well, I can't imagine any organization that's getting more advice than the Trump or the heirs campaigns right now. And I think when, I think just, I don't like the name calling. I think the go-to on stuff like this is one, well, okay, I'm not going to get into name calling, but basically fascism is the following. The definition of fascism is it really has three supporting pillars. One, extreme nationalism. Two, the demonization of immigrants. and three, a refusal to object to violence against her enemies. And let's go through all three of those. And she could have provided examples of how he demonizes immigrants, how this isolationism and this notion that we are somehow, you know, this radical nationalism verging on bigotry.

45:12And also at rallies, he refuses to condemn violence, whether it's against our— I just think they could have done better. rather than getting, because I think most people, quite frankly, if you ask them to define what a fascist is, I don't think they could. So I think it was a missed opportunity. I don't think they should engage in name calling. And generally speaking, I think the biggest mistake the Harris campaign is making right now is let surrogates in the media column names, what she needs to do is say, I am proposing, I have the one policy recommendation that I will enact within 100 days that will have more impact on your life than anything we're talking about here.

45:55And that is, I'm going to expand Medicare coverage such that your parent can die at home and your parent, your aging parent can have some dignity. And I figured out a way such that in one of the most sensitive, upsetting parts of the life of the sandwich generation and increasing population of older people such that your mom or your father, we're both going through this. So many people are affected by this. She needs to foot to a real policies that affect people because there are millions of people struggling with this that might go, you know, that's going to, that really is going to tangibly make my life better.

46:31But instead, like, do you think he's a fascist? I mean, okay. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Here's the thing. These voters, I was really intrigued by. I usually hate these panels of voters, but incredibly thoughtful people. Like, I was sort of like amazed that they were like, look, we don't like the name calling. I got to know what they're going to do. I know Donald Trump's a jerk. I don't want to vote for him, but what is she going to do? It was really interesting. Each one of these people, and they all were like, I like her. I like her. I think she's very competent. And she made the smart move of talking to a lot of people afterwards, right?

47:06And the minute they meet her, they like her, right? It was interesting. And I thought they were like, I'd like to not, I know he's a fascist. Thank you. Like, I got that. Like, but what is, what, the policies were very important to voters more than, I think politicians speak down to the smart, the voters and try to appeal to the least among us versus the best among us who are more motivated anyway. So this is interesting. Speaking of this, a number of major donors have made their political affiliations clear, but several big names are supporting Harris and keeping quiet about it. Jamie Dimon has privately told associates, which means he wanted it to get out, honestly, that he's backing Harris.

47:45Come on. He privately told him and oops, it got out. Jamie Dimon, stop it. You're making me exhausted. Despite publicly praising Trump, he's trying to sort of, you know, keep his, either side wins, I win. That's Jamie Dimon to a T. And Bill Gates has donated$50 million to a nonprofit supporting Harris' run, according to New York Times. When I talked to Bill Erzma, he wouldn't say directly he was voting for it, but he did give a hint, of course. Let's listen. It's pretty tense right now. It's still, and it's been tense for a couple of years out of COVID. We're still sort of not recovered from that.

48:17And a lot of people aren't. How do you, what is your mood right now? Well, you know, ask me on November 6th whether climate change is real or not. So I'm guessing who you're voting for, but. I, you can definitely guess what, where my energy is going. Yeah, he's, he's giving money. He absolutely is a supporter. Why, why are they doing this? It's so weird. Like, it's so dumb. When you say doing this, what do you mean? What's this? They're like saying I'm for her, but not I can't say it publicly. What is that? Look, to me, that's quintessential Bill Gates. When you become a partisan, it just turns people off.

49:05And I'm not sure that everybody needs to know your political views. At the same time, you don't need to hide them. And that's what he's doing. I think he's saying, look, if you're really interested, you can figure out who I'm voting for. But I'm not going to get out there and be overtly political. I think that's probably a pretty good stance for someone with as big a profile. I think Bill Gates is a gift. I think he's a great model for billionaires. He's certainly shifted. Yeah, he's matured. Yeah, he really has shifted in a very positive way. Instead of trying to put a dildo on Mars, he's like, how do I build a toilet to stop dysentery and infection in poor markets?

49:43I mean, he's doing real work. I would agree. He's decided, here's an idea. rather than trying to colonize Mars, I'm going to try and make this place a little bit more fucking inhabitable or habitable. Or instead of getting on stage and jumping up and down like a dipshit, which is what Ted Hall's called Elon Musk, which made me laugh. Kind of the perfect word for him. He doesn't. You're right. He's just putting the money to it. I like Bill Gates. I would agree. I don't really care if Jamie... Jamie Dime did just say he was for Harris. It doesn't matter how he does. It doesn't matter. Who cares?

50:13Yeah, and Jamie, I hope Jamie gets a role in... Treasury Secretary. Yeah, in either administration. He's a really thoughtful guy. He's a great manager. I think he's a really good leader. He's good looking, which I think is important. Of course you like that. His hair is spectacular. Very handsome guy. Handsome man. He's a very handsome guy. That's how we decide to Treasury Secretary. He's a great leader. He's built an unbelievable company. He has, that's for sure. And he tells people about it, too. And he will tell you that and have his surrogates tell you that. Well, like we don't? Because we're so bashful about our success?

50:42That's true, but we're more explicit and love me. I heard you on a podcast. Yes, let me see. Speaking of secretive donors, a network of GOP donors and conservative billionaires have been fueling the Stop the Steal effort, according to the Wall Street Journal. What a surprise. These donors have given more than$140 million to nearly 50 loosely connected groups working for so-called election integrity. By the way, every time you see U-L-A-N-E on a box, it's them. That's who's that. Your box is funding election Stop the Steal stuff. Tactics include trying to slow down the vote count, burying officials and paperwork, electing candidates at the state and local levels to support this effort.

51:18Not even slightly surprised these people. Of course, they're doing it. Speaking of secretive. Yeah, I don't know. No comment. What you said is right. I have nothing to add. Don't use Elaine boxes. That's my thing. OK, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question.

51:39The question comes in via voicemail. Let's listen. Hi, Scott. Hi, Kara. This is Ken from Chicago. I recently had a friend comment that haggling is a sign that the free market isn't rational. And I fired back that haggling, in fact, plays an extremely important part by providing feedback to the seller. It defines what is valued or what's overpriced. Customers feedback about prices or features is a goldmine. But haggling is often looked down on in Western culture, in my opinion. My question is, should I or how can I teach my kids how to effectively haggle and negotiate outside of sending them into a car dealership?

52:21Thanks. Bye-bye. I love the word haggle. I don't use it enough. Haggling. We haggle all the time, don't we? We're hagglers. We don't really haggle. We bicker. We don't really haggle. Bicker. I like to haggle. Let's haggle more. Haggle. Okay? All right. It'll keep our relationship fresh and exciting. This is your area of expertise. You're a big good... I often, just so you know, Scott and I are in business together, and I let him do the haggling, as they say. I think he's really good at it, and I'm way too explicit. So, Scott, take this one. Well, I mean, there's semantics around negotiating. I wouldn't call it haggling.

52:59I call it negotiating. And quite frankly, your kids, if they have a phone or they have allowance, they're going to start figuring out how to negotiate with you. And I think negotiating with your parents and push and pull and learning. My son's very emotionally manipulative. He'll say, Dad, I want to go to Pachak with my friends. And I thought you could meet me there because it'd be some great hang time. And he knows that I want nothing more than to hang with my kids. So he throws in that he wants to go to putsch. He's already learning how to negotiate, right? Haggling usually is more a narrow part of it where you're talking about haggling with, usually in a commercial setting, someone at a bazaar or you're saying, I'll pay you 10 bucks for this item.

53:44Versus 12. Versus 12. And you haggle back and forth. And I think that's actually an interesting process. I actually tacked my kids. We were at a market once and I gave them each some money and said, go see. I want both of you. They were all selling the same thing and they both wanted the same thing. I'm like, you go to, I want to see who can find this item for the least. And they said, and I said, and by the way, you can offer them less. You can say, how would you take seven bucks for it? And it's embarrassing and it's hard. It's also something that I think women aren't as good at as men. And men are trained to be more aggressive.

54:19They're more risk aggressive. So men are more willing to be embarrassed. It's embarrassing to haggle. Well, I'll give you nine bucks. It's much cooler to just pay list. It's easier. No one gets offended. There's no haggling. The ability to haggle, the ability to say, no, I want 14%, not 9 % raise is really important. And going more broadly just to negotiating, and it took me 40 years to figure this out, there's only really two things you need to remember about negotiating. And the first is don't make it win or lose. Make it, you know, how do we figure this out together? I would really like to make this work.

54:57I'd really like to work with you. I think this would be good for both of us. And then the most important thing is you have to always show a credible willingness to walk away. And that is, I was in a negotiation this morning with something we're involved in. And I said, they kind of threw up some objections. And I said, well, first off, you know, there just may not be a fit here, but we'll still figure out ways to work together. but unless they believe there's a chance you might walk away and that you're willing to, you're never going to get the best deal. But don't make it win-lose, don't make it emotional, constantly talk about how you would like to make this happen.

55:33The other sort of Jedi mind trick that I learned recently that I think is really important in negotiation is when someone puts forward an objection, to repeat back that you hear their concern. Oh, you're worried, you know, you're worried that, or you believe that we should do this because of X. Am I hearing you correctly? And supposedly that does something to people's brain where when they feel heard, they don't, they're more inclined to meet you halfway. So, but I think haggling and negotiation is incredibly important for young people to learn. Unfortunately, I think men are better at it and it suppresses women's wages in certain professional contexts.

56:13Does. I have to say, from being a boss, I watched it. I watched an incompetent person ask for more and a woman who deserved more ask for less somehow. It was really interesting. I see that too, actually. You know, this is an overall thing, but in general, you're right. Having managed people, especially incredibly incompetent men tend to really value themselves rather high. That was fascinating to me. I was always like, you know, I actually want to fire you and you're asking for more money. Interesting. Interesting gambit, which was always interesting. I guess the word haggling is not the right word.

56:47You're right. I'm very explicit. No, I'll have this. And then they're like, what about this? I'm like, no, this is what I want. Like, I always go in knowing what I want. And so I don't usually back down from that. I'm like, well, then I'll go. And I actually mean it. And I think when you do that, you have to mean what you say and say what you mean. I find that, I find being explicit rather freeing. Also, the best way to negotiate is to have another offer. Every three to five years at NYU, which I love, I would return a call from, you know, a Cornell or a Columbia, and I'd say, sure, I'm happy to speak to anybody.

57:23And I'd say, can you give me just an indicative sense of what the terms would look like? And then I go to my dean and I say, this is my market worth. I don't want to leave. I want to stay here. I just want you to match it. You don't even need to beat it. Nothing helps a negotiation like multiple bidders. And basically, the only reason you hire an agent or an investment banker is such that they can credibly lie and give the illusion there are multiple bidders all trying to rent your time or buy your company. That is basically what they do. because the illusion of scarcity, the only way you get really what you either deserve or the maximum is people start credibly going, well, what would we have paid Cara or what would we have paid for this company the day after we lose it to someone else?

58:07Let's pretend there's a very real possibility we're going to lose this person or this deal. That gets people to what they're actually willing to pay. So I hate to say it, but without being threatening, without being angry, just always have, demonstrate a credible willingness to leave or not do the deal. Yeah. Without being an asshole. Without, I'm quitting or I'm going to Fox or whatever. No, just, okay, maybe there isn't a fit here. Just say that up front. And it's not going to be the end of the world for both of us. Can I ask you a last question? Sure. Which of your sons won on that haggling thing you made them do?

58:43I don't even remember. I think it was the younger one's much craftier. The younger one is much more. Yeah. He's much more aggressive. Yeah, Alex wins all those things because, like, Louis is so nice. He's like, okay, whatever. Louis is a socialist. Louis is like, hey, man, you could probably use this more than me. I'll give you$12 even though he asked for$10. I see Louis being much more. Yes, that's exactly what Louis is. Alex is like, no. He's always, I love that. I love that, Alex. He's always like the angles. He's got the angles, yeah. He's always looking at the, he's such a math person. And Claire is quite good at it.

59:15And I go, would you like this? She goes, how about two? Oh, and another thing, I mean, I'm now saying negotiating simple. I'm remembering all these things. Something I didn't learn until I got a lot older, it's okay to leave a little bit on the table. It's okay to say, okay, this is important to you. You want them to feel like at least on a couple dimensions of the deal that they won. And to just say, okay, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I wanted this, but this seems important to you. or not only that, it's okay to leave a little bit of cabbage on the table. It's okay. That's fine. I think that's the fatal flaw of Donald Trump.

59:51Ultimately, he doesn't do that. He wants to fuck you in a way that's really, that ultimately adds up eventually. Maybe not in this lifetime. Anyway, for the rest of you listeners, it's time for this week's Threads poll. The question this week is, who would make a better Halloween costume, Kara or Scott? Oh, obviously Scott. Bonus points if you send us your pictures dressed up as one of us. We get a lot of that. That's interesting. Or someone interesting that we'll find interesting. Go to our Threads account at Pivot Podcast official to vote. What's your Halloween costume this year? I'm going as Kara Swisher again as I do every year.

1:00:26It's really great. You know, I've given up. I've given up. Anyway, if you've got a question of your own and you would like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions.

1:00:49When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom's 60th, and never miss a meme or milestone, all protected with end-to-end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp. Message privately with everyone. Learn more at whatsapp.com.

1:01:20Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction besides the fact that you will have an epic Halloween costume like you did last year where you went as Deadpool. Yeah, but you didn't ask me. You keep forgetting. When I ask you questions, I'm not interested in you. I just want you to ask me. Oh, I forgot. You know what? I just thought of that as I was going into the commercial break. Last year, I went as Deadpool after the fire. I had a makeup artist do my skirt. I looked amazing. You did. This year, I'm going, it's not the costume isn't as good, but it's kind of funny. I'm going as Richard Simmons, which I'm really excited about.

1:01:51Oh, wow. I mean, shorty shorts? I have these gold, very short dolphin shorts. Oh, wow. But here's the problem. I think that's the problem, seeing you in shorty shorts, but go ahead. That's where I would really kick in as a woman. I'd have amazing legs if I were a woman. Anyways, the, God, can you imagine what beautiful children I'd have with that center from the Minnesota Lynx? She and I would have spectacular children. Anyways, I found out Tom Selleck in the first season of Magnum P.I. was the exact same height and weight as me. He was 6 '2", 190, but I look much different in shorts than him, and I just can't figure it out.

1:02:31I just can't figure it out. Are you wearing the wig? You're wearing the wig. Oh, come on. Come on. Halloween, how could you have invented a better holiday for me? I get to wear a wig and women dress up as sluts. Oh, my God. Let's have Halloween every month. I know. You love a costume. You really go all out. I do not. I do not. I don't like it at all. I don't like it at all. I love Halloween. Oh, I love it. I absolutely. And by the way, just do me a favor. Because you're going in as yourself, when people ask you what you're supposed to be, look at them and begin to cry and say, I was supposed to be a lot of things.

1:03:09That's good. That is good. I love it. Oh, thank you. I finally have an answer. That's good. Have an answer. All right, let's hear a prediction now. Okay. So, look, I don't think this is going to come as a shocker in anybody, but I am officially endorsing Harris-Walls for president and vice president. And my prediction is that a Harris administration, which would be much better for young men. And I believe that young men are some of the last available swing voters because they don't traditionally vote. When they get excited, they vote. They almost always, or they disproportionately vote, at least until recently for Democrats.

1:03:44So I believe the new kind of the swing voters are young men. And this is why I think young men would be better served voting for Vice President Harris, and then I encourage them to do so. And that is, I think everybody needs a code, whether it's from your religion, whether it's from the armed services, whether it's from your company, everybody needs kind of an anchor to hold on to and guide the millions of decisions they have to make in a complicated world. And I increasingly believe that young men can call on, or what I'm hoping they can develop as a new code is a modern form of masculinity. And those three things are the following, being a provider, a protector, and a procreator.

1:04:24And I want to go through each of these and why I believe the Harris administration and policies would enable men to foot to those. I like this. By the way, the Washington Post has yet to make one. Jeff Bezos, get off your ass and make one. But go ahead. I love that you're doing this, Scott. There you go. Okay. So provider. I think a decent place for any man to start is to take economic responsibility for his household. And now that doesn't mean that you're going to get in the way of your wife or your partner who might be better at that money thing. When my partner was a Goldman Sachs and making more money than me, I tried to pick up the slack at home and not be threatened by it.

1:04:57And that is also taking economic responsibility. But a good starting point is that recognizing three in four women see economic viability is key to a mate. It's only one in four men about women. Unfortunately, I'm not talking about the way the world should be, but the way it is, men are disproportionately evaluated on their economic viability. You need to be a provider. And under the Harris administration, you're talking about an economic strategy that everyone from Goldman Sachs to basically every living Nobel Prize winner economics is going to say is going to result in greater growth. And with the Trump administration as a young man, you are talking about what will effectively be the greatest tax increase in history on you.

1:05:36And it's the following. It'll be a deficit that will be triple than what would be under the Harris administration. Why is the deficit the biggest tax in history on you? Because Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway will not be alive to pay back that deficit. You will have to pay it back. So what young people haven't connected the dots on is that deficit spending is nothing but a tax on them such that I can have champagne and cocaine now. You're going to have to pay it back, not me. There are a variety of different economic plans, whether it's a housing credit, whether it's loans for small businesses that are meant to put more money in the pockets of young people, specifically young men, and enable you to be a better provider, protector.

1:06:14Your default setting as a man should be one of protection. You don't need to understand the nuance around illegal or undocumented workers, but when you see them being demonized, your default setting should be to move to protection. You don't need to understand or agree with the trans community, but when you see them being demonized, your default should be as a protector. Real men break up fights and bars. They don't start them. Real men protect their country. They don't shitpost it. Harrison Walls have a much greater default setting around protection. And I especially think Vice President Walls presents a wonderful image as a man being a protector.

1:06:51And that is, and I love the story of him hearing about the LGBT community at his high school feeling bullied and him enacting the football team to come to their aid. That is exactly what it means to be a man, to be a protector. And then finally, procreator, the most rewarding thing in life, and I'm not saying you have to do this to be happy, but the most rewarding thing I know in your life, Cara, and in my life has been raising children with a competent, loving partner. And I did not, when I saw my partner or the mother of my children at the Raleigh Hotel at the pool, I was not thinking that she'd be great at buying distressed properties and fixing them up, or she'd be a good person to save for a 401k.

1:07:27I had one thought, and that is I would really, really like to have sex with this person. And wanting to have sex with women and being successful at it and figuring out the nuance and the skills and the strength and the humor and showering and enduring the rejection and being funny and being kind such that you can have sex with women is a wonderful thing. And it's something you should be proud of. And your ability, your ability to be attractive to women will be easier under a Harris administration. And And if I did a survey around would young men like to have more or less sex, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of them would say I would like to have more sex.

1:08:01And if you want to have more sex, if you want to have more sex, then we absolutely need to cauterize, reject, and turn around this ridiculous notion that women are going to have their bodily autonomy taken. Because if you want to have random sex, and let's be clear, the majority of relationships involve at some point maybe a little bit of alcohol and a little bit of random sex. If the woman is thinking about random sex and then says, you know what, I might be in an emergency room parking lot unable to terminate a pregnancy, even if I have sepsis because the doctor might go to jail. If I have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term, both you and her are going to be economically disabled.

1:08:39The fastest way to have less sex is to let more people get on the Supreme Court and to take away a woman's bodily autonomy. So, guys, you want to get laid more? Make sure women have bodily autonomy. Let's review. Okay. Your ability to be a provider. I'm very serious about this shit. I think sex is a wonderful thing. And the notion of kids, young people are having less sex. It is terrible. And it is a wonderful thing. And the notion that you and your partner have to be much more thoughtful and scared of actually having sex is terrible for everybody. One, your ability to be a provider, economic policies that make it easier for you to be economically responsible for your household.

1:09:20Two, a default setting around being a provider and three-year ability to form a family at your pace with economic responsibility through bodily autonomy. All of these add up to Vice President Harris being nominated and elected for our president. So if you are a young man, I would encourage you to lean into your code around masculinity. And that code leads to one place, and that is a Harris administration. Wow, that is – I have not heard that one. if you want to have sex, vote Harris. I like it. That's what we're saying. Correct? There you go. If I had to boil it down. All right. That's an interesting and novel thing.

1:09:59I just like her. That's why I'm voting for her. So I just like her. I like him. And I'm so fucking sick of the way these tech, the toxic tech bros, which were affiliated with Trump. I hate this toxicity has to end. That's my thing. So that's just it. But I like if you want to have sex, vote Harris. I think it's a compelling, compelling argument. And I think she should make it at the Ellipse when she is there. She said, no more insurrection, a lot more sex. Thank you, Scott Galloway. 100%. That would be it. 100%. It's a wonderful thing. Young people need to have more of it. I understand that. And for more, you get, I have to say, pound for pound, you give a lot of really good content, Scott Galloway.

1:10:38Just not as much as Drew Barrymore. But I don't look good in shorts. Okay. No, but we'll see. We'll see. I'm sure a lot of that, unfortunately, for me. For more in the Kara and Scott universe this week, which is growing, it's growing, it's expanding. We're an expanding universe. Scott, you talked about perseverance with the famous perseverance writer, Angela Duckworth, over at the Prof. G. Pod. Let's listen to a clip of that. Where does that inner self-talk come from that says, you know, I'll show you, right? Because I think if there was one phrase that I have heard over and over again in interviews of the grittiest people, it's that when they describe confronting a major challenge, especially when they're doubted, right?

1:11:20And someone else tells them, like, well, you can't do this. You know, there is this rage, this, like, voice that says, I'll show you. And my theory is that being in one challenging situation after another is not enough to give you the voice that says, I'll show you. Somewhere there has to be support. I think I've seen it too often, you know, that people who are in challenging situations without support, you know, are not the ones to get up again, dust themselves off, like learn something, you know, come back stronger than they were before. I'll show you. That's guided everything in my life. I'll show you.

1:11:56I do. I have to say, I love her. I love Angela Duckworth. She wrote Grit, obviously. But I'll show you has been a big fucking, really? Uh-huh. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's what I do. I like it. There you go. Yeah. We're both gritty, I think, in a lot of ways. Okay, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot and obviously more news. We are bearing down on the election. We are. It'll be a week from Tuesday. Incredible. Incredible. When we come back. Anyway, please read us out. Today's show was produced by Larry Naman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Jatot engineered this episode.

1:12:31Thanks also to Jubrose, Ms. Vario, and Dan Shulon. Nishat Kuroa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. What is a good default code? Protector, provider, procreator.

1:12:56Thank you.