Trump Indictments, Blind Side Drama, and Co-Host Don Lemon

23:27Don, we're back for our second big story. I know you don't want to talk about Trump, but this is a big deal this week with Fonny Willis. It's okay. He's calling it a witch hunt. I want to see the new Don. Surprise, surprise. After we recorded the pod earlier this week, we learned that the former President Trump had been indicted yet again, this time in Georgia. His new 13 counts include racketeering, making false statements, pressuring public officials to violate their oath of office. He's accompanied by 18 of his friends, I guess, his crew, Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, and Jenna Ellis. If you're keeping score at home, that makes four indictments for Trump in the last five months, two federal cases, one New York criminal case, one Georgia criminal case with a total of 91 felony counts between the four indictments.

24:09He has until noon on August 25th to voluntarily surrender to authorities where he will have a mugshot and fingerprints. Do you think he shows up on the 25th? That's the question, isn't it? Because that he and then what do you do? Because there are really no levers in our Constitution that can prevent him from running. You hit upon a very interesting conversation that I've been talking to people about. Look, I think that it is good that finally Donald Trump and all of his cronies may be facing some very tough consequences, and they should. But if people are sitting at home all day in front of cable news thinking that they're going to see Donald Trump in an orange jumpsuit, I don't really think that that's going to happen.

24:51I think the consequences and the ramifications of putting a former president in jail, it's really tough because of who you're going to put him in with. What do you do with the Secret Service? What does that mean for state secrets? How does that compromise the country? So I think, you know, in the end, there will be some sort of deal made. But the question is, what do you do? What do you do with him? Is he above the law? In many ways, he is above the law. I know that's awful. People don't want to hear it. He will go and he'll have to face the process. But then in the end, do you want someone, even if you think Donald Trump is the most terrible person on earth, he was the leader of the free world and he knows a lot.

25:38And what position does that put his family in, his family members, if he's in jail with someone and they threaten this, you tell me this or, you know, I'm just going through the motions. Well, most people think he'd probably be under house arrest. So if he's under house arrest in Mar-a-Lago, that's fine. I think that's a good, you know, that's good if he is indeed found guilty. And I think that is when I say to people, do you really think Donald Trump is going to jail? And I say, I don't think it's going to happen. Well, they'll say, well, maybe they can strike a deal where he won't run for public office.

26:11And I think that's also a good compromise as well. The best option, I think, quite frankly, would be for him to go to jail. I'm just being a realist here. How does that happen? Are we surprised that all of these people were doing what they were doing? How long have we known this, Kara? We've known this for a long time. And there was reporting. You had it on your show. So, you know, the New York Times had it. Washington Post had a lot of this. Nothing is fresh and new here from a reporting perspective, which is it's just the detail. It's the detail. No, I reported on Fannie Willis back in February or March, I think February, that she was going to use the RICO statue to go after Donald Trump and that it was a top down issue for him that, you know, he was directing or people in high positions were directing people in lower positions to do certain things and they were going to use a RICO statue.

26:59And that, you know, what happened just a couple of days ago is just finally come to fruition. But I had that reporting exclusively a couple of months ago. Yeah, it's something we've typically seen prosecuting members of organized crime. That's how they, Rudy Giuliani used it to great effect, in fact, and he's now being subject to it. It is fantastic. Well, what do you think? Are you surprised by all of this? Do you think he'll go to jail? No, I do not. I think the technicalities of putting a former president in jail, I think he will push it right up to the line. I agree. He's taking a big risk.

27:31But at the same time, as I had on Chris Christie recently in an interview, and he said he's terrified of jail. There may be a part of his lizard brain that says, oh, no, this is a big risk. And he eventually went bankrupt. Right. He eventually does take his medicine on some level. I think he no one is above the law. I do think the law needs to be flexible in this weird, weird situation of a person who's shameless. That's that's really people get upset for hearing us say that. And that's the issue that we were talking about, even if you're just analytical. Technically, how do you do that? Like, would honestly, considering what Donald Trump has done to me, the safety of my family, that, as you know, dealt with death threats.

28:13I had to go and do, you know, victim impact statements in court. He called me all kinds of names, you know. The only thing he didn't, what's the word that he's using? Oh, the only thing that he didn't call me publicly was rigors. Wow. You know, he's using the rigorous word, never mind, whatever. But so would I like to see him in jail if he is found guilty? Yes. But do I think that that is going to happen? The technicalities, as you say, I think it's very difficult for that. But you're disappointing a lot of people by saying what you're saying. You know that, right? Yes. No, I get it. I get it.

28:48I just technically speaking. Now, I do think one way might be different is a visual state rules would allow for a televised trial here, which he would love. It also, as I said, might see a mugshot, which may be good and bad for Trump. That's when people will care. That's when the TV ratings will go sky. That's when people will tune in to cable news or whatever it is. If he goes to court, especially in Georgia, if there are cameras in the courtroom, because he's good television, it'll be the O.J. of, you know, the present O.J. Simpson trial. If that happens, if there are cameras in the courtroom.

29:20That's a really good comparison. And we know how that ended up, although I wouldn't say O.J., you know, he did get away with allegedly. away with murder um and i think he but his life did not get better after that i mean i think it never got well i don't think donald trump's life got better after he became president i i never understood why people want to be president of the united states and if i was donald trump and i lived in a you know in a in a high rise and with gold gold-plated toilets and i had my own jet why would i subject myself to all this scrutiny i would just have a great life and live in the It's a great TV show.

29:56I think you're right. It's going to be a television show and he's good television. Now, speaking of television, the first Republican primary debate is happening next week in Milwaukee. One, do you think he'd show up for it? And two, if you were doing it, you've done debates, correct? I have. I've done a number of them. The last one was in Detroit with all the Democratic candidates. So what would you ask if Trump is there and if he isn't there? What would I ask the other candidates? Yes. What would you ask if he wasn't there? My question would be the same to even if he was there or wasn't there.

30:28I would ask them why they continue to support because many of them supported him for a long time. And now they're just starting to say, you know, the election wasn't stolen and Donald Trump isn't right, you know, and they still hedge. So I would ask them that question, why they continue to support someone who has been indicted four times, who has been impeached, who tried to overthrow the government, who encouraged an insurrection, who says the nastiest things about not only them, but about their families, why they continue to support. And if they continue to support someone like that, are they qualified to be the leader of the free world?

31:08Okay. What would you ask him? What would you ask him? Why he thinks he's above the law, why all of the very best people that he put into place turned out to be the very worst people and ended up either in jail or under indictment. I would ask him why he cares more about himself than the country. And I would ask him why he continues to co-op the most vulnerable people in our society and why he's a racist, why he is a sexist. Would you use that term? Yes, I would. because he, I asked him in 2016 if he was racist and he said he wasn't. And I would ask him why he lied to me because, you know, as it turns out, the evidence shows that he absolutely is.

31:51I think I was the first person on television to say that. I opened my show one night by saying the president of the United States is racist. I remember. I remember that. That was a big, but where's the lie? But although, you know, CNN did benefit as did other cable initiatives from covering him. He's holding a major news conference this Monday at Bedminster saying, you know, proof should the media cover it? They have to, right? He's the frontrunner. The media should cover it. I don't think they have to do it live. I think that they can, you know, we don't cover when, you know, I'm not in cable news anymore.

32:25But you don't have to cover every single event live. And there's a reason for the seven-second delay. Or you can, you know, you can get the information, look it over and then disseminate it afterwards and add context to it, which I think is a responsible thing to do. But I don't like giving, you know, dictators or liars or insurrectionists or election deniers. I don't like giving them a platform, especially not live. And I think we learned our lesson in 2016 by running live Trump town halls when it was all lies. And those things penetrate. They do. But now he's the front runner, though. How do you avoid that?

33:07I think about this all the time. How do you avoid that? Well, you can cover him. You can send the camera. Someone's like, don't platform him, Karen. I'm like, how do you not talk about a man who's at 54 % or whatever in the number he's at? Well, you can talk about him. But again, you don't have to put all of his lies on in real time. Twitter deplatformed him. Well, now not. Actually, they helped him. They tried to help him avoid. Jack Smith had to get a lot of Twitter data, which Elon Musk did that, you know, slowed it down, slow rolling. I think you have to talk about him. We had the same issue for Kanye.

33:39Do you platform him when he's making anti-Semitic remarks? It's a little bit different when you're the front runner and the former leader of the free world. It's a little bit different. But I think you've got to be careful and you have to measure. You have to be very careful and very measured about how you cover him. You don't have to put on every tweet or every, what is it, truth social post that he puts out. You don't have to do those things. There's a reason for that you have standards and practices and you take things through an editorial process. Right, right. I think that news organizations have to do that.

34:18They've got to be responsible. You know what I would ask Donald Trump, though? I would ask Donald Trump, I wonder what your mother, what do you think your mother would think of you? She seemed rather passive. And what you're doing and what you've done. She'd love me. He'd answer. What do we do then? She'd love me, Don. See, I always anticipate what people will say. I say she'd love you. You think she'd love the way you speak, you know, about whatchamacallit's wife? You think she'd love what you were found guilty of for E. Jean Carroll? Would she love that? Yeah. You'd have to be prepared. I'll tell you.

34:55That's the one. Because Elon Musk's mom is very supportive of all the things he says. I saw her recently, by the way. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, she's supportive of him. She does. She attacked me for being very normally critical about his COVID policies at his companies. Yeah, it's interesting because he says it's okay to criticize him. But, you know, well, you know, my mom would probably be a little bit upset too. But my mom would also tell me the truth about myself. That's what I do. I told my sons, I said, you pull anything like this, it's over for you. It's over. My son took my daughter's mermaid this morning, one of my kids.

35:33And that would not stand in my home this morning. Did they see Barbie? No, not the little ones. The older ones did. Two older ones did. And they loved it. Did you see it? You know what? I loved it. I loved it. Let me tell you, I'm in Provincetown right now, and it is a Barbie summer here, as it is everywhere. The boys are wearing pink? Everything. Everyone's wearing it. Everybody. It's a Barbie and a Ken summer. Ken and Barbie. And you can imagine what they're doing here with that. They're enjoying themselves in quite a lot of ways. But let me get to another few stories in that regard. You mentioned, there's two things I want to talk about.

36:07One is the trans issue. You know what I mean? Like here, let me tell you, we have, we took a picture of my son with some, there's a lot of trans people here, a lot of drag queens, et cetera, a beautiful picture. And my wife didn't want me to post it because she's like, I don't want us to get called groomers. I don't want it linked to a thing. And I thought, fuck them. Like, why can't I post? It's a wonderful picture. You can't see his face. It's a beautiful picture. And the fact that we're thinking of it with all, like, talk about what people are talking to you about trans issues. Well, there are people who are very supportive of the LGBTQ community who have some concerns about, you know, what your wife said.

36:46And listen, I think people should be supportive of the LGBTQ community, but I don't expect every business to throw up a pride flag. And I don't know if it's their business that they have to, that they should. I would rather have their support and votes. I would rather have them as an ally rather than alienate them. And I think there are a lot of people who are supporters of the LGBTQ community and of the trans community who feel alienated by some of the things that are happening. Whether that's fair or not, that's the reality. I had this conversation on Sunday with family members of my fiancé who are, you know, one of them had a Bud Light.

37:27And I said, oh, you're still drinking Bud Light. like jokingly, he goes, yeah, and he talked, and they talked about it. And they're like, look, I support the LGBTQ community, but there are real consequences for what happened. Look at what happened to the profits. Speaking of which, but you know, quarterly sales fell at Target for the first time in six years, due in part to the backlash. And Bud Light lost 10 % of their profits. Yeah. Or Bud Wise. Yeah, now they're moving back again. They're moving back again. It'll come back. Yeah. They're going to fine tune their approach to Heritage Months in terms of displays.

37:55CEO Brian Cornell said on an earnings call that consumers you target as their happy place. The company will do what it can to learn, lean into that moving forward. I'm not sure why. I don't think you can pin that 100 % on what happened. No, you can't. You can't. You can't. Yeah. But in Bud Light's case, it led to$395 million in lost U.S. sales. It's kind of ridiculous. Why is this transition becoming such a big issue from your perspective? I think it's look, it's how do I say this without getting, you know, even, you know, members of my community are upset. The whole trans issue is sort of new to a lot of people.

38:33Right. And so, you know, one day it won't be. And so people have a lot of questions about it. And just as a journalist asking questions for people who may not have all the knowledge, I would get yelled at and screamed at and accused of having some sort of internalized homophobia because I was asking questions for people who didn't know. And so I think that you have to, you know, I often felt like the African-American authority, right, being the only person of color in primetime on a cable. And, you know, I felt like I had to answer questions about being black in America. And I had to ask questions coming out early in the media about being gay.

39:13And sometimes you just have to do that. And you have to understand that people don't know. And if you can offer them some information, you do it. And, you know, was it upsetting sometimes? Did I get sick of it sometimes? Yes, I did. But that's the only way that people learn. And so I think you have to take people, you have to meet people where they are. And it can be frustrating. And I think sometimes with the trans issue, people get really sensitive. And they don't understand that this is a new and very difficult issue for people to understand. It just is. I wish it wasn't that way, but it just is.

39:52And you know what, Cara? Quite frankly, it's a tough issue for even members of my community. You know, they don't get the pronouns. They don't get to the, well, are trans people gay? Are they straight? They're not necessarily this. Why are they part of the community? You've heard that. Yes, a lot. And so, you know, can you, we would like heterosexual people to be able to understand everything all the time, but they don't. And sometimes they just have questions. Sometimes my feeling, what I tend to do is say, what do you care what people call themselves? Why is this an issue? Why are you all wrapped around an axle about this?

40:30Like, what do you care if people want to call themselves Phyllis or they? I don't care. It's like, so it's hard for you. Big deal. Like, it's hard for you to pronounce names of certain people, too, right? And you're just going to have to, that kind of thing. I've had lots of discussions with people about this. And I tend to, I usually tend to be like, tell me how it affects you. And then they sort of get drawn into a better conversation than you're a fucking idiot. I'm thinking you're a fucking idiot, but I'm not saying that in some ways. It's a big and important issue, the trans issue, listen.

40:59And I am extremely supportive of the trans community. And as you know, right now, we, you know, we deal with trans issues probably more than any other issue within the LGBTQ community. If you go to any event for the LGBTQ. Well, they're under siege with laws. They're under siege. And so I'm very supportive. I don't understand why people have such an issue with it. I understand why they're curious about it. I don't understand why they have such an issue with it because it's a very small part of our population. Candidates like Ron DeSantis and others gin it up. And now, of course, they're backing off of it.

41:32It's not working. particularly. Speaking of which, a lot of people are talking this week about the 2009 film, The Blind Side, which is supposedly based on a true story, but maybe not so much. As a reminder, this was a movie starring Sandra Bullock, who won an Oscar for a role, about Leanne Toohey, who brought homeless teenager Michael Orr into her family. Orr, now former NFL player, is alleging that Toohey family never actually adopted him, instead put him into a conservatorship and exploited him for years. The Toohey family is denying those claims, is making a few new claims of their own, even mentioning a shakedown for$15 million.

42:06Michael Lewis seems to be backing, who wrote the book, The Blind Side, a very well-known journalist, saying that nobody made money from this movie. I think that was one of the things, whether they made money from the book and the movie. You interviewed Leanne back in 2013. I did? Yes, you did. Michael playing in the Super Bowl that year. Do you remember it or not? I don't. I don't. I'll be honest with you, I don't. I do this all the time. I do. I know people say, are you interviewed such and such? I was trying to remember if I interviewed someone recently. I think it was the two ladies that are involved in the Georgia case.

42:41You know, and I said, did I interview her or did I read like a transcript of her? And I can't remember. I do that too. I was on, listen, I was on television at least two hours, five days a week. And I guess come in and out and I don't remember. I don't remember interviewing her, but I'm sure she's a, she's a very nice lady. I don't remember it, though. Do you have any thoughts on this? I only brought it up because you did interview her. I want to see what happens with the lawsuit, because people allege things all the time, and we have to see what happens. I'm not saying that that's this case, but that's what a journalist does.

43:16You wait for all the facts to come out. And if there is any money to be made or gotten from Michael Orr, I think Michael Orr should get that money. Right. And I think he was an adult at the time, and he should have been allowed to make his own decisions as an 18-year-old person. Whether he got the money or lost it or saved it or whatever, I think it should have been his own decision. I think one of the more interesting parts of it is how he was portrayed in that movie as kind of thick and dumb and the white people teach him. Well, it's a white savior complex. Yeah, exactly. But a lot. Now, when I saw it the other day, it's interesting when you rewatch things.

43:51It's on TV all the time, which is interesting. I was like uncomfortable suddenly you know what I mean I was uncomfortable watching that movie from the beginning I love Sandra Bullock I thought she did a good job I don't think she won an Oscar didn't she I don't think that she should give her Oscar back because she only did her job she's not involved in that there was a book a screenplay and she did her and you know and then the movie she did her job so I don't think you know props to Sandra Bullock I really like her I think she's amazing but the whole movie about the white savior thing was always uncomfortable for me.

44:25And I remember when I was writing my book and an editor, I talked about, I forget, there was something that happened and there was this little white kid. I went back and I read it in the editor and I said, I don't want to do this because this makes this kid seem like a white savior. And they were like, oh my God, I didn't even think about that. All right, let's work on that. But I went back, you know what I did recently? I went back and watch i watched the um rock hudson documentary i think it was on is it on hbo or something and um and so it got me onto dynasty and i went back and i watched dynasty from the very beginning no and there was a whole character with steven the gay son and um i felt differently about the series than when i watched it originally what did you feel what's the difference the way that the character was portrayed was terrible you know he went back and forth about being gay and straight you know the the dad which was blake harrington which is john foresight killed the son got off with killed the son's boyfriend and got away with it and through his entire life he was embarrassed about his son being gay was like jesus what the fuck man this was terrible and this was the 80s i said no wonder people didn't come out then oh yeah yeah well you know it was i i literally i remember watching and it was always you know sad gay people you remember i did not like john foresight's character i actually related more to you know joan collins yeah i'll give you a new one in your free time don't until you decide whether to hook up with uh tucker carlson or not um is i can't believe we're talking about dynasty i know right right um is go watch three's company literally 90 rape jokes a second like you know what i mean like oh and he had to in order to live with two women and be, he had to be gay.

46:10But then when they're talking about like getting women, it's very like hubba hubba, give her a drink. Like, you're like, what? Like when you watch it, you're sort of like, oh no. Kara, that's all I watch is old television and it's so terrible. Don watching old television. Go watch West Wing again. Go, that'll work. That stands up. I love West Wing. All right. My last question here, and then we're going to get to predictions because we're almost done is who would you want to interview right now? You're a very good interviewer. You did tons. You don't even remember interviewing Leanne Dewey. I don't.

46:42I'm sorry. It's okay. Who would you want to interview right now? Right now. Besides you? Yeah. Bonnie Willis. Oh, okay. I would want Bonnie Willis, Alvin Bragg, and Jack Smith. Oh. I would like to sit down with all three of them. Wow. They would never do that. You know that, Don. No, but I would like to. I would actually, I would interview Donald Trump. Yeah. I mean, but it would be the most uncomfortable interview that you have ever seen. Oh, I bet. Oh, my God. You know where I would do it? As I said, if I interviewed him, at Mar-a-Lago with like velvet ropes. Let him bring his crowd in. Think about that.

47:24You would. Mar-a-Lago in a bathroom? No, out in the bathroom. With a shower curtain? Let's go see the bathroom, sir. I'd call him sir a lot. And I would have it, in the middle of the lobby at Mar-a-Lago and there would be velvet ropes around us so that people could watch. Yeah, I would do it with his crowd. I would not be afraid of his crowd, as a matter of fact. I would do it at a Trump rally. I wouldn't care. Yeah, you might be a little more trouble than me, in any case. All right, Don, one more quick break and you have to come back with a prediction, okay? Okay, all right.

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50:11OK, Don, let's hear a prediction. OK, here's my prediction. I predict that even with all of the indictments that Donald Trump will be the nominee because they have no other choice. The only person who is really speaking truth right now is Chris Christie and the Republican Party. Will Hurd a little bit. Doesn't seem to want him. Will Hurd is a bright guy. I'm not sure he has the support of the party and the star power, sadly, to win a presidential election at this point. I think it will be tough for the Republican Party to win. I predict that Joe Biden will win the next election. All right. Oh, that's a good one.

50:57Okay. Joe Biden. Joe Biden will win again, once again. He wins by not saying anything. He just sits on the beach and he seems to go up and it falls. It's crazy. Yeah, that's another thing that people are talking about, but that's for another time. Yeah, I know. The age thing. We've discussed that many times. You've discussed it on the podcast. Yeah. Think it's a big deal? Big deal? I do think it's a big deal. Listen, it makes me uncomfortable talking about people's age. My mom is 80 and she's a very young 80. I think, you know, Joe Biden has, you know, he has the stuttering thing that we talked about on top of what happens.

51:30And his people have to, like, stop letting him fall down, like putting obstacles in his way or what have you. Yeah, he's pretty fit. I have to tell you, he's pretty fit. He is pretty fit. Listen, I think that Joe Biden is a very smart man. I think that Joe Biden is doing a great job. If you look at what he's doing in office, what he's accomplished, he's doing a really good job despite all the criticism that he gets. But what I'm saying, again, I'm being analytical. I'm not saying that I agree with this. People are talking about his age, and that is a concern for people I meet. Now, if you speak to someone like my mother, who is a diehard Joe Biden fan, she'll say, I don't care.

52:11I like that he's older and he has wisdom, and that's important for a president. And I think she's right. But there are a lot of people who are concerned about his age. Jill Biden is concerned about it. He even said that he's concerned about it. So he knows that it's an issue. So I don't think it's - But you still think he's going to win? Because now the Republicans are trying to focus on Kamala Harris, obviously, saying she'll be the real president, et cetera, et cetera. Well, people talk about that as well. I think people would like Kamala Harris to be a little bit stronger, to have - This is what they're saying to you.

52:49Yes, to be a little bit stronger, to have more accomplishments under her belt, to be seen, to be forward facing a little bit more. The concern is that Joe Biden will drop her and then he won't get the black support and then blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, the whole thing. I don't lean into any of that, but I'm just telling you what people say. But you still think he's going to win and Donald Trump will not. I think he'll win. I think Donald Trump will not. But who knows? And then you and I could go to Mar-a-Lago and interview him after that. I would love to. I'd do it with you. We'll make a Donald Trump sandwich.

53:23Let's try to do that. So what do you think? What's your prediction? My prediction? I'm going to go separately, not on Donald Trump, but on the writer's strike. I feel like it may settle by October 15th. I think there's some pain starting to feel by the studios who are in a better position from a leverage point of view. I think there's a lot of pain from writers and actors. And I don't think they're calling them rich people or is really working particularly well with the public. And I think they have to settle on some level and maybe push certain things down the road. I don't know. I just feel like maybe by October, they'll have to be settled.

54:00First will be the writers, then the actors. That's why I'm saying, I think the writers will settle soon and then the actors by then. Because they have to walk back. I interviewed Fran Drescher. A lot of stuff they've said that, not walk it back, but tone it down. like, you know, that they're a bunch of monopoly men, which may or may not be true. And they have been taking a lot of the value. And so I do think it's going to, I think it's going to settle before the new year. Now, I didn't think, I thought January 15th was. I need to get my Don Lemon reality show into production before they come back with the content, right?

54:32Are you doing a reality? That would be so good. What would you call it? I'm joking. I don't know. I'm joking. Lemon light. I have no idea. lemonade, lemon life. When life gives you lemons, that's what it'd be. When life gives you lemons. When life gives you lemons. Oh my God, can I be in your reality show? Like we can move into a, like a house in Provincetown and like, you know, lesbians around, some trans people will bring Ron DeSantis in after he loses, you know, nomination. Would you watch that? Oh, us with Ron DeSantis in a house in Provincetown? Are you kidding? It sells itself. It would be my family, my dogs, you, and what do we have?

55:11You said we have some friends. Oh, we've got Ron DeSantis. Yeah, in the attic. Like flowers in the attic. We keep them up there and let them out every night. No, he's like, no, is it it or thing? Thing, thing, thing. From the Addams family. Oh, God, Don, that would be a lot of fun. Anyway, if you need any help figuring out your future, as you know, I understand these things rather well. So if you need any podcasting help, if you're going to do that, you should go on Joe Rogan. It's not so much with Tucker. I'm sorry. I think you should rule that one out. Would you watch that? You and Tucker? Yeah.

55:46I think he's a nasty piece of work. I think maybe back in the day, sure. I used to like Crossfire. Do you know how many people have proposed that Tucker and I have an event that we do it live streaming and, you know, it's like a prize fight? Here's how I feel like it. It'll diminish you and not him. I think just like Mark Zuckerberg in the cage fight, it diminishes Mark and not Elon. And I think it diminishes you and not him. That's what I think. I think he gets a lot of purchase out of it and you do, because his fans are really the lowest group of people sometimes. Some of them, not all of them, but I think it diminishes you.

56:22I don't know, maybe. Maybe it could be if he comes back to the way he used to be, but I think he's walked down that road rather far. Speaking of racist remarks, sexist remarks, et cetera, et cetera, attacking people. What do you think of Twitter? Look, I think, well, or X, I think Twitter is, my gosh, it's such, It's an enormous platform that can do so much good. And it's important, especially to, it has so much importance, especially to people who don't live in democracies, right? Yep. Agreed. Around the world, certainly. Around the world. And if Elon Musk could, and Linda Iaccarino could just get it right.

56:58I'm not confident that's going to happen. You're not. No, I don't. I'm sorry to say, I was one of the people, as you know, that thought it was a great thing. And then he's really turned it into a real shit show. Because I hear nothing anymore about threads. Really interesting. I like threads quite a bit. I'm not saying I like it or dislike it. I'm just saying when people have issues or if there's a big deal, people go to Twitter still. If there's an announcement, people go to Twitter. Yeah, it's a habit. I don't know. It could be great, but I don't think he can make money, so it doesn't really matter.

57:34And if he wants to own it like he owns a yacht or a baseball team, fine. A losing baseball team, that's fine. He's rich. and he makes a lot of money from other things. So sure, I guess. I don't know, Don, you love the Twitter. You haven't been on it lately. No, no, I'm not. I stopped using Twitter during the Trump era when he was president and people started attacking me. But you read it. No, not really. I don't. I have someone who does social media for me and I'm going to go back to doing my own social media. I think now it's a little bit less toxic. Try threads. I think it's good. Stay on Instagram.

58:08Yeah, but I'll go back eventually. But anyway, I hope I did okay because I'm kind of rusty. Yeah, no, you're good. No, I was just telling someone you were a pro. Anyway, Don, that's the show. You can come on anytime. You can come on anytime. I did get, I got half yay Don Lemon on Twitter and half that awful man and on and on about you. Well, that's pretty good, don't you think? That was good. I felt like it was fine. I wrote back, I'll go fuck yourself. I'll have who I want on this show. Thank you. That's really what I said. I'm like, get your own fucking show. I'm cursing a lot here now. Anyway.

58:43All right. I got to get back to Carnival. Everyone's all dressed. There's a lot of camps outside. Is that what you're doing? No, I'm not. We're going down to a family reunion. But Carnival is getting, for instance, getting ready for Carnival. And the theme is toys. You know what? I would come on your show more often, but I feel objectified by Scott. No, seriously. He has a weird crush on me. Don't you know that? He does. I know that. I'm aware. I find it distasteful. He's a weird man crush. And I don't know. It's a little creepy. It is a little creepy because you're a handsome man. He loves a handsome man.

59:10You know, my mom thinks he's gay, but he's not, as you know. Isn't he gay? He is a tremendously beautiful and wonderful smart wife. It's weird. He does have a weird Don Lemon fixation. He's gay-ish. Gay-ish. Gay-ish, yeah. So I will have you on when he's not around. How about that? All righty. Because I don't want you to feel objectified, Don Lemon, because I think you're in your prime again. And so are you, my dear. So are you. They would be so mad. Why didn't you stop? You know what? He made a mistake. Thank you. Let's move on. Come on. And apologize for it. And look at this. I don't know if it's, well, that's a whole nother story.

59:48But come on. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I own what I, I own what I do. Anyway, you know, glass houses. That's what I say. Anyway, for most people, not everyone. I love you too. We'll be back on Tuesday with a break in Scott Free August. That's right. Scott Can't Quit Us. Dot, I'm going to read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

1:00:20And I'm so looking forward to the new reality show When Life Gives You Lemons. What do you mean you're going to read us out? I don't know what that means. We'll do it live. We'll do it live. Thanks, Don Lovett.