Trump Threatens Insurrection Act, Paramount Sues Warner Bros, and Apple Teams Up with Google for AI

26:56And it's less expensive than firing up tanks. Also bases. We can have as many bases there as we want. We used to have, I think, 11 and we closed them down. 17. And now we have one. We have one. They're like, they're 57 ,000 people. They, up until recently, really liked Americans and they liked the jobs. Like, sure, put a nuclear submarine base here, put a tracking, put a radar station, whatever you want. If you want to start you want to come up trade deals around the minerals yeah whatever you want sir we will give you your burrito bowl you don't need to bring a gun into chipotle i like this chipotle metaphor you were wondering where i was going with that i was indeed by the way my new favorite restaurant in new york is a place called the corner store oh my god so many fabulous people there the french dip you heard it here you're welcome all right okay um anyways this just makes no fucking sense.

27:44Like the Epstein files, there's no getting around it, Kara. It's probably President Clinton looks really bad here. There's just - This is what Roe noted, but nonetheless, it was a great - There's just no getting around here. But again, Roe is right, except for the following. And one of the reasons why one of the other pieces of material that's been stained indelibly by the Trump administration, is that many of the activities testifying in front of Congress, not having your children trade in crypto and leverage the presidency to get multi-billion dollar deals, there's actually few laws against them.

28:22What they are is they've been enforced by norms. And we've had norms in this country where if you're called before Congress, you go, regardless of who you are. Yes, you do. You don't act like a jackass. And because Trump has just waved the middle finger at so many norms. Well, which he did this week in Detroit, but go ahead. And because we have abdicated, as Barry Goldwater warned back in the late 60s and early 70s, because we have abdicated and, quite frankly, recklessly and ignorantly transferred so much power to the executive branch, that this guy has not only been able to blow through stop signs, he can mow over children in the crosswalk and say, Yeah, fuck it.

29:05There's no law against it. And this is how societies kind of just digress. So understandably and justifiably, the Clintons are saying, oh, these norms no longer apply. What's good for them is good for us. In any other administration, if the Clintons had been called before Congress, they would have said, absolutely, we'll come testify. They would show up. They're very smart. They're very well prepared. And they would have performed excellently. Instead, they want to make theater and connect Epstein more to Clinton and a Democrat than to— I don't know. I think they want to get arrested and show that Trump doesn't have to testify.

29:41I think that's precisely— They want to get arrested. I'm sorry. They want to get arrested. The Clintons. Yes. They want to make a spectacle of it. They want to make a spectacle and they want to point out that they want to have the Clintons testify, but not Trump. Have the Clintons testify, but not Trump. Yeah, think about it. You know more about this than I do. Trump is not, the committee doesn't want Trump to testify. Why wouldn't they? Trump was closer to Epstein. I mean, on a long-term basis. But the committee is controlled by Republicans now. No, I get that. But I'm just saying, they want to do this.

30:11I think they wouldn't write a letter that— The Clintons want to do this. Yes, the Clintons want to make some fucking noise. That's my guess here. if I had a guess. Because I think they both, they also noted they gave a lot of information, they've been cooperative, but they're not going to appear essentially if Trump doesn't. And I think that's, I think people can grok that pretty clearly. You know what I mean? And I do think they want to be tried for this. I think that's what they're doing. I don't think William Jefferson wants to be tried under oath for anything to do with abstaining. You don't write a letter like that if you don't want.

30:46It's a dare. It's a dare. Well, they're both lawyers. My guess is the best lawyers in the world reviewed it, whether they've signed it or not. Got it. But it's a dare. You wouldn't send a letter like that if you didn't want something to happen, if you didn't want to make some noise. Well, they knew you were smarter than me, so I defer to your strategy. Yeah, we'll see. Nonetheless, the Epstein files should be released. And what Trump is doing is distraction, distraction, distraction. There is something that he does not want to come out. I don't know if it's about him is definitely about his friends.

31:15So this is what's happening here. He's trying to get it out. And by the way, the people that want it out the most is the MAGA base. So, and now me and now Scott and now the rest of the country. So we'll see. All right. We're going to have a quick break. When we come back, Paramount sues Warner Brothers.

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34:51Scott, we're back with more news. the battle for Warner Brothers is continuing. And as Paramount continues to fall down stairs in doing dealmaking, Paramount filed a lawsuit against Warner Brothers and its CEO, David Zaslav, this week, trying to get them to turn over details of their sale process and the Netflix deal. Warner Brothers is calling the lawsuit meritless. Paramount also announced plans to nominate its own slate of directors to Warner Brothers board to vote against the next deal. This is very typical in these fights. Netflix is making some moves ahead of its own, reportedly amending its offer to an all-cash deal, very savvy, which could speed up the process significantly.

35:25The stock is down, so it makes sense, and it makes it more attractive and gets that problem out of the way, the stock declining. I'd love you to talk about the board dynamics. I talked to Bill Cohen last night, and he was like, I don't understand why you would sugar, give the money, give$34 a share. You don't do vinegar here after doing so many stupid things in this deal. And actually, let me note, lengthening the timeframe because Trump is, if martial law doesn't happen, Trump loses the House and the Senate. This deal is fucked for the Paramount people. So the timeframe is really bad for them at this point.

36:01They're taking too long to get this. If they got their hands on this, Trump will be damaged by the time and unable to help them. But what do you think of this proxy strategy? You've been in the middle of these things a million times. Bill's exactly right. at some point, I mean, they went through a long process and Zaslav and their bankers credit, they got the number much higher than anyone, including me, had anticipated. And at some point they have to say, okay, this is why we're picking this deal. You have to be able to economically justify it for shareholders. There was justification for a lot of reasons that the Netflix is the superior bid.

36:37And I have never been on a company that's been acquired or has acquired another company or has gone out of business where there's not lawsuits. I was on the board of Eddie Bauer when we declared bankruptcy. I was on. Really? You were on the board of Eddie Bauer? I forgot. Okay. Yeah. Well, because I'm such a great outdoorsman. It just made sense. I can't see you hiking anyway. We're going on a hike someday. Go ahead. Anyways. But there's always lawsuits. So folks, these guys don't scare easily. They just send a lot. The lawsuit's not going to have any merit. It's just my, it might tie it up or delay it.

37:11But it just adds another moving part to what is already going to be a complicated, messy situation. And the only thing that talks here is they got to put$34 a share on the table. And dinero. Dinero. And not only that, it has to be the increase, the incremental offer has to be great enough to justify a potential breakup where I believe WBB would have to pay Netflix$2 billion. Yes, exactly. And also all those loan covenant things they have to get their nose out of. They have to let Warner Brothers do those loans. So the only way this happens is, they're not going to block this deal with lawsuits.

37:48The only way this happens is if Larry Ellison goes, whatever, I'm 81 fucking years old. I'm worth, I don't know, I think he's the third richest man in the world. I know he's less wealthy now. It went down, yeah. But that he just says, or Saudi money shows up and says, Larry, if you're willing to put in another 10, we'll put in another 10. And they show up with a 15 % premium to the current offer. That's the only way the board is legally because of Revlon laws. I don't even think, it can't even be incremental. If it's a three or 5%, they would say the additional risk injected into the deal and the breakup fee means that this is a wash and we are just going with this dance partner as committed.

38:27There was a really interesting note. You and I both know Vivi Nevo. He's so funny. He's a funny little guy who is a very big investor in a lot of stuff. And he's very amusing on many levels and has been sort of a quiet whisper to lots of Muggles. He was sitting next to David Zasloff at the Golden Globes, which was and not with and he's he's a Warner Brothers shareholder and not with David Ellison, who apparently was seated in the back. But as he's being insulted by the host of a show that's on his network, which I loved, I it was really interesting. That was a really interesting Zasloff sort of flexing a little bit there.

39:10having Vivi next to him. And I think this, I get lawsuits are typical, but it seems like not the way to do this. Like, just give them the money. I just, I keep going. And same thing that Bill says, give them the money. Just give them the money. That will work. Why aren't they giving them the money? Well, you mean offer more money. Yeah. Why? Offer, top their bid. So in 25, my big tech stock pick or my stock pick was Alphabet. This year it's Amazon. You know what my stock pick in 2024 was? What? Warner Brothers. Oh, interesting. And at the end of the year, it was down 10%. I wish you had it now.

39:46Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought these assets will go. What will be interesting, and this is going to come back to my prediction, what will be interesting is I think all of these bankers and financiers figuring out they could, in fact, they can, in fact, do whatever$100 billion is, a 12-figure deal. Once this thing is done or has left the station, you know who they're going to turn their sights on. Disney. 100%. Disney. Disney's going to be put in play by somebody. Yeah. Yeah. And then I will be doing the lovely exit interview with Robert Iger. So, yeah, I agree. But it has to be done interestingly at the same time.

40:23Say Apple is the obvious candidate for that particular purchase. I agree. 100%. There's going to be a new CEO at Apple relatively soon and a new CEO at Disney. So those can't. Which do you think will come first? Disney. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Disney, I'm pretty sure I'm right. But Apple's coming. Tim Cook has been less there, from what I understand, from people, and is starting to move away from it. I think he'll still be involved, no question. Well, maybe I will sail away on his beautiful ships. But I think that they're both preparing. So whoever the CEO is is going to have to helm this thing and therefore be part of the decision-making, right?

41:04That's presumably. You don't want to like, here you go. I just did a massive deal kind of thing. But in this case, just pay the money, Larry, or not. Like, shit or get off the pot is kind of the situation here. I think they should rename Disney to Strip Mining Nostalgia. God. We're so creative, we're going to put out a prequel, a sequel, an A-quel, a NyQuil. Let me just say, I'm going to push back on that. Both Disney and Apple have given us so much, these groups of people have given us so much great stuff over the many decades. It's okay that they aren't perfect all the time. No, and so is Ford Motor and Dow Chemical.

41:39That's a long, long time ago. Although, you know, as you know, I have a Chevy Bolt and I love it. Anyway, so what's the next move, Mr. Board Member, since I've never been on a board? Well, what people don't realize around board dynamics, and this is more relevant or impactful as it relates to Chairman Powell. Chairman Powell, you know, he's off. He's no longer the chairman as of May 2024. But you know who's in charge of the Fed? 26, 26. I'm sorry, May 2026. And God damn it. It's where does the time go, Kara? The cat's in the cradle. Where does the time go? You never played ball with me, Scott.

42:18Where does it? Oh, my. Oh, wait. I need to pee. That's right. It's 2026. Okay. What's going to happen next? The only time I feel like I don't need to pee is when I'm peeing. Okay. Anyways, just. and now the stream is so weak it's like missed you can be the anchor of cbs news with that line but go ahead don't trust the experts hey billy bob fucking yeah what do you think the audience of cbs is concerned with whether they can pee what did 4chan tell you um uh what's gonna happen We have to move on. Okay. So this is the thing. Why does Trump want Chairman Powell out so badly and to resign? Because while his chairmanship expires in three and a half months, he remains on the board of governors.

43:09And he's influential. Until 28. Who do you think is going to control the fucking Fed next year? Chairman Powell. Chairman Powell. Because this is how boards work, Kara, or what I've learned. And first, there's a quote unquote board meeting where we all sit around with the CEO in the room and we eat salad and everyone listens to themselves talk and we approve. We do whatever the fucking CEO suggested. And the only time that board matters is two times, either hire and hire the CEO or you decide if and when to sell the company. And usually when things get spicy, there's a second board meeting. And the second board meeting is the board members who matter meet usually in the parking lot after the board meeting and start talking.

43:49Because the dynamic on a board is the following. Everybody talks, everybody's smart, says their shit, poses for the cameras. It's a bunch of FIPS, formerly important people saying intelligent things, you know, and then going back to the, you know, their country club in Naples. And then usually two people speak and everyone stops and listens and agrees with them. And the two people are usually the following. The largest shareholder, because the bottom line is they control the company, and especially if it's a private company and it might need more company, everyone kisses this guy's ass and it's always a guy.

44:21And there's usually an ex-board member. What I mean by ex-board member is there's someone who, quite frankly, has proven themselves over the course of the last two, three, 10 years on this board. It's just fucking smarter than everybody else. Has more gravitas. And when this person speaks, everyone just starts nodding their head. And guess who that person on the board of governors regarding interest rate decisions is going to be? The chair communicates to Congress. The chair is the visual figurehead. But at the end of the day, the people deciding if interest rates go up or down, it's the board of governors.

44:55And you can bet, regardless of who the chair is in June of this year, everyone will talk. And then Chairman Powell, probably one of the greatest economic minds in history, will say, yeah, these are all great points, but I think we should keep interest rates where you are. You can bet other board of governors are going to decide I'm with chairman or former chairman or Governor Powell right now. So here, let's go to Warner. So the board chair is a guy who used to be chief executive of Price Waters Cooper, right? Right. And he's the one that's been on TV saying there's so him. He's a white guy. David Zaslav, Richard Fisher, independent director.

45:33Who was this guy? I don't even know who this guy is. Served as president and chief executive officer of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas. So a big swinging. So that's him. I'm sure it's a very competent board. Right. OK, it is. I'm just saying. But who's who's that? It's Zaslav, right? Presumably is running the show here. Zasloff is Paul Gould Debra Lee oh shoot that's interesting Zasloff has gained a tremendous amount of credibility because he's almost gotten everybody's money back yeah Ken Lowe is on it wow it's an interesting Anthony Noto's on that board ooh I know a lot of this board really well wow oh Jeffrey Yang's on this board Malone Malone Malone's the big swinging dick on this board oh Bob Malone's on this board yeah yeah yeah he's the guy who listens to John I'm sorry John Malone he's the guy he's arguably the brightest guy or one of the brightest minds in the history of media.

46:25There's a couple of tech people. Jeff Yang, the venture capitalist. I've been that guy. I've been that guy. I've been the tech guy they bring on. And over a while, just because we started a tech company doesn't mean we know how to implement tech at Disney. No, I get it. But there's a couple of interesting people. Anthony Noto was on it. Anton Levy is another person who's really interesting venture cap. They've got a lot of venture capitalists. Anyway. I don't know. The thing about Disney is there haven't been layoffs, But Disney's announcing so many remakes that a bunch of original ideas have filed for unemployment.

46:56Oh, my God. That's good. Anyway. All right. We'll see what happens next. Pay up, kids. Let's pay up. So moving on. The FBI searched the home of Washington Post reporter Hannah Natenson on Wednesday, seizing laptops, a phone, and a smartwatch. Natenson has spent the last three years covering the Trump administration's efforts to fire federal workers. The search is part of an investigation, they say, into a Maryland system administration accused of taking home classified intelligence report as a pretext, frankly. The Washington Post has been told neither Nautenson nor the outlet are the target of the investigation.

47:29The editor of the Washington Post, Matt Murray, did a terrific letter. It took a while to hear from the CEO, Will Lewis. Jeff Bezos has not said word one, and he's getting enormous amounts of criticism, but readers remaining quiet in the hours following the news. I think the newsroom leaders have done the right thing and everything else. But this is a Trump administration trying to really go for the press at this point and going for their sources. There's no reason to take this woman's information on another investigation. And it's a pretext, is all it is. But Jeff Bezos not standing up. He's busy partying in Aspen, presumably.

48:07But another reason why he's a terrible owner for the Washington Post, you need to stand up at times like this. Yeah, I stopped listening about 30 seconds ago. No, stop it. It matters. You're just masturbating. You know what? You talk about democracy. Journalism. Where's my vibrator? Not journalism. You don't. We have rules in this country. Let's talk about Bob Iger. Hold on. No. Why does my stuff not matter? Why does the press, you talk about this important of democracy. Are we married now? No. Why does my stuff not matter? You talk about democracy. You don't touch me anymore. The press is an important part of this entire thing.

48:38You don't notice me. State media is being created, even as we speak. Jeff Bezos, if he wants to own this fantastic newspaper still, despite his best efforts to make it suck, should stand up. Come on. I'm trying to think of what's less relevant than CBS or The Washington Post. No, it is not. Relationship advice to the young men out there. Women don't want money on height. They want follow-up questions. Follow-up questions. No, no. Yes, they do. Women want follow-up questions. They want to be noticed. Let's talk about Bob Iger. Just let me get a few Bob Iger things back, and then you can go back to talking about how important the Washington Post is and how bad.

49:14I'm not saying it's important. It's an important moment that owners should step up. No, no, no. It's terrible what's going on here. Oh, my God. You're like literally, when you're reading Pravda every day and getting updates from - I'm reading Pravda. I'm sure you'll enjoy that. Oh, yeah. I'm just saying. I'm getting a tattoo that says Al Jazeera. No, no. Okay. Listen to me. This is he is I'm going to ignore you completely. An owner, the Graham's Mrs. Graham went out on a fucking limb all the time for this for this country. And so did Don Graham. Yeah, to your point, I probably shouldn't be glib about it.

49:49The Washington Post reporter had developed, I guess, over or it's reported well over a thousand confidential sources inside a variety of government agencies. So this is an attempt, not only an attempt to put a chill around the press, which is obviously totally contrary to everything America is supposed to value, but it's really meant to unmask sources and put a chill around anyone who talks to the press outside of normal propaganda channels. uh it really is upsetting um federal agents they've knocked down the door of the journalist her name is um as you referenced hannah natanson the feds show up at her house they don't ask for a comment they don't call her uh they just kick down her door and take her computer and her phone so again we just continue to find violations of the very principles that america was founded on So, yeah, you're right.

50:47I shouldn't be glib about it. Look, this is a long line in media companies acquiescing to the government. Thank you. CBS, whether it's CBS, whether it's making payoffs to him, whether it's Sherry Redstone, whether it's whatever. Jeff Bezos is a long line of shitty owners of media. I agree. We agree that he's probably I think he probably agrees that he shouldn't have owned or bought the Washington Post. He'll go and get his chin implants or whatever he wants, but he shouldn't own the chin. But here's the thing. Bob Iger, you know, he doesn't ruin childhoods. He leases them back to you monthly. Yeah.

51:23I'm not going to insult you. He's not evil. He's worse. He's the kind of guy who can ruin something politely. No, no. You don't have the child. Disney is a wonderful, does wonderful stuff, as do many people. Anyway, you're not going to get the focus off of shitty Jeff Bezos. All right, Scott. We'll go on a quick break. You do not care for the things I care for. You know his big innovation was making you pay$27 to skip a line so you can stand in a different line? That's his innovation. When's the last time you were at Disney? Oh, so 364 days a year. I do not show up for my kids. And then my partner says, all right, bitch.

52:04Which, so I take my, we haven't done it in a couple years because now they want to go to Universal with their buddies and not have dad around. Yeah, that's a good part. It's like the only time I would go, they want to go to Halloween night. I'm like, I'll go. And they're like, no, no, dad, you're not invited. I used to take all the kids and their friends to Disney once a year for a long time. Yeah. All right. But no longer. No, I haven't been in a while. Have you been in a while? I'm going to up you. I've been on a Disney cruise. Oh, you've been with, I've heard they're great. My kids want a Disney cruise with their grandparents.

52:33It's endless soft serve. That's all I have to say. I've heard it's fantastic. It's very good. It's very well done. Yeah, I've heard it's great. I wanted to kill myself, but it's very well done. Well, that's called a cruise. Yes, exactly. It was endless also. Actually, you're getting to that age now, though. No, I'm not going to cruise this. You're getting to that age. I don't like boats. I'm not a boat lady. And they have deals for you and your nurse. Okay. Anyway. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Apple and Google teaming up on AI.

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56:00Scott, we're back with more news. Apple and Google have announced a multi-year deal for Apple to base its AI products on technology developed by Google. Upcoming versions of Apple intelligence will be based on Gemini AI models powering Siri and other AI features. Alphabet stock jumped on the news, making it the fourth publicly traded company to be worth over$4 trillion. It's interesting because they were mobbed up a little bit with OpenAI, as you know, for a little bit. And of course, there's many criticisms of Apple being behind. Meanwhile, several publishers, including our own Vox Media, the Atlantic Penske Media, are suing Google for antitrust violations over its dominant ad tech business.

56:38There's a case happening, too. Metta has named former Trump advisor Dina Powell-McCormick to serve as president and vice chair. Powell-McCormick served as Trump's deputy national security advisor during his first term. That's when I met her. But President Trump posted truth social congratulating Powell-McCormick calling it move a great choice by Mark Z. I'll comment on that at the end because I think she's highly competent. And she used to work for Goldman Sachs. I want to leave that out. is married to Senator David McCormick of Pennsylvania. They're a power couple, obviously. But talk about the Google-Apple thing and the lawsuit.

57:13I think you know more about this than I do, Cara. I'm interested to your thoughts. I think, you know, Apple's been criticized for being behind in the AI stuff. They haven't been developing it. They've been losing staff in that way. Obviously, they decided not to participate in the money spending in this area that Google and others are doing. I think it makes sense. They have strong relationships over mapping and search and everything else. And I think they may be, I don't know, they've gotten in trouble over the mapping and everything and the search, making them the default search. And so they may be just doing it again, right, if Google and Apple do this.

57:50I think they don't have the capabilities. And then Gemini has gotten a lot better, I have to say, even on Google search when I use it very rarely now. So they have to be mobbed up with an Apple because that's where people get their information. We'll see. I think it's in the light of that there is still an ad tech case by the federal government. And then now this one, these people have complained about Google but never done anything. And now they've done it. I think this is exactly what they should do is sue them. I mean, I've always thought they should sue them in this regard. Google is on both sides of the ad trade and shouldn't be.

58:26And I do think the case that the government has is a strong one against Google. So any thoughts? Well, I thought Apple not entering into the capital wars of AI was a really deaf move because I thought they were going to pull a search and say, all right, you guys fight it out for search and we'll just sequester access to the most valuable billion consumers in the world. And they did that with Maps too. Right. So, what is it? There are now more phone contracts than there are people on the planet. And a billion of those, or 1.2 billion of those, I think, are iOS. And quite frankly, they're the only people that matter because they're the only people with money.

59:06and when you carry an android phone and i've said this for a long time you're communicating to the world that things just quite haven't worked out for you and so apple and ios is like is responsible for something like 80 of online commerce they just spend you can get a free phone you can get amazing phone and a free phone as long as it's android and these things cost three months salary in hungary now the iphone it's the ultimate the ultimate signal as a as your worth as a mate is whether you have iOS or not. And so what they do is they know the value of that. And they said to search, if you want to be put in front of the billion most powerful consumers in the world, you got to pay us not five, not 10, but$20 billion a year.

59:44I thought they were going to have the same type of leverage with these LLMs. One of these LLMs was going to pay them a massive amount of money to be the default. Well, that may be the case here. We'll have to see, right? But it looks like it's sort of that the technology is so differentiated and they need it so much that Apple doesn't have the leverage, at least I thought, because what it looks like, it looks like they're going to actually pay, my understanding is pay Alphabet about a billion dollars to use Gemini. So the leverage is sort of switched back to the provider here, to the content as opposed to the distribution.

1:00:21What's interesting is why they've decided to support, I mean, if you look at the market share, there's a couple of things. I've been giving all these talks about AI. There's a couple of things about LLM market share that are just sort of interesting. It's likely and obvious and understandable that open AI would be seeding its 80, 70 % share that other people would be chipping away. Yeah, now it is. Google's come up and they've come down. And the two that have been eating share have been one, Gemini, and two, the LLMs, the open weight LLMs coming out of China. That's exactly right. And it makes sense that - And that's it.

1:00:54By the way, that's it. The others are not growing. And by the way, Google search still gets about 90 times the number of queries. Yeah. Just on a different point. They've done a good job integrating AI. They have. Greg Shove, the CEO of Section AI that upskills corporations for AI adoption, has said something to me that I thought was really bang on. He said, of the billion people out there that might use AI in the next couple of years, only 40 million are going to be willing to pay it. So really, OpenAI right now is one of two forks in the road. They either get massive, massive enterprise adoption or they go bankrupt.

1:01:33Because there's no way there's enough consumers willing to pay$20 a month. I'm saying, Netscape or Google, which one are you going to be? So anyways, but this is, I think this is a huge win for Alphabet. They're going to be put in front of the most valuable consumers in the world or the ones that have money. and I would imagine the reason they're doing this is they're thinking that this is going to give an enormous boost to Gemini. So they either strategically have decided they don't want OpenAI as a viable competitor and two, they've also, I wouldn't be surprised, people forget these are people with enormous egos.

1:02:09And I say that in a good way. They are so, they will not spend time with their families. They will ignore their health because they want to win so badly and they want to be relevant in the world. And one way to do that is to be the CEO of a company and beat everybody else. I wouldn't be surprised, and I'm curious what your thoughts, if Tim Cook, quite frankly, is a little pissed off at IVE in this whole bromance of how and the implication that OpenAI is going to build products. And so, and they've kind of, Alphabet for Apple is the devil they know, but this is going to absolutely elevate or accelerate the market share of Gemini relative to open AI.

1:02:50I didn't have a lot of insight there. No, you had a lot of insight. I was just going to say, you actually did have insight. Let me, what about the lawsuit? Very quickly. I don't have a view on it. Yeah, well, they should sue them. They should sue them. They've been sucking away their value forever and doing it in a monopolistic way. So, yes. I'm up for any lawsuit against big tech at this point. Yeah, I like a lawsuit. Oh, and then Dina, the way I read that, and I'm curious for you. I do know a lot about this, but go ahead. Yeah. See, my thing is that essentially Meta and Jensen and Juan all realize one thing.

1:03:27Quote unquote, she's not in charge of partnerships with the government around data centers. She's in charge of figuring out a way to elegantly get them, the government to pay for it and ultimately bail them out. Because their plans around data centers, even they cannot finance. So what is she there to do? Finance. Yeah, I think Dina is there to go to the Treasury Secretary and the Commerce Secretary. You know why it makes sense for the government to issue bonds and backstop$4 trillion in debt for us? Because it'll grow the economy. I think she's there with the world's most elegant, biggest fucking hat to try and get Trump to justify and announce that he's going to backstop.

1:04:06See, you know, you know, Scott. So you agree? Oh, I think so. I think she's there. She's a Goldman. I mean, they leave out. A lot of the reaction was, oh, it's a sop to Trump. I don't think that's the case at all here. I think she's actually a very deft networker. She left the Trump administration rather early and has a very good reputation as a networker. She was Goldman Sachs, very tight with those people, was there for a long time. She knows everybody and actually across all party lines, which is really interesting. And so I think Meta doesn't have much capital experience in figuring out how to capitalize these things, these data centers, and has been very far behind.

1:04:47The other thing is, you know, I think the SOP to Trump is too easy, is too easy. I think she's the right person, especially if Trump starts to lose power. She is not. She is. She has been close. Everyone has who's participating has to be have a relationship with Trump. But it's not. She hasn't gone over the edge in the way that some others have. So there's that. I think she has some credibility with Democrats from what I can glean. She's now the head of the she's now the head of the big tech pack and she will orchestrate the largest bailout for tech since covid. But possibly or else figure out how to capitalize this stuff.

1:05:24Right. How to get the money for it. Which is a bailout if it comes from the government. Yeah. So she the other thing I think she has to avoid being this Sheryl Sandberg, too. Right. Like seen is that way. And so I don't think she will, though, unless she's going to unless she's going to like claim, you know, well, let me just be honest. Unless she's going to pretend to promote gender equality while depressing teens all over the world. She will not. She's actually interestingly, she's very close to Nikki Haley. She's definitely a Republican, a very interesting background. But I agree with you. It's all about the data centers.

1:05:57You're one hot. Good for you, Scott, not knowing everything. You're absolutely right. There you go. Financing and - Give me the money to start a paper. And actually, honestly - I love Aspen. As much as I hate to compliment Mark Zabry is a very sharp choice. It's a very sharp choice. One of the better business minds of the last century. Yeah, I got to say, he's made the right choice. He's made a lot of bad choices. This one's a good one for him. And it's too easy to say it's just a suck up to Trump. It's not. It's absolutely not. It's a suck up to everybody. All right, Scott, one more quick break.

1:06:25We'll be back for predictions.

1:06:34Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. The only thing I want to say is I thought that XAI has disabled the ability for Grok to create sexualized images of real people, including children, following a wide backlash. It's pretty easy to generate those deep things, by the way. But I'm not surprised. I think I got it right that he was going to give up, even though he was pretending he wasn't on this stuff. I think he's going to continue to double down. That's my prediction, because, like, I don't know what else to say. This guy is a really heinous character. And he thinks equating free speech with sexualization of children is really where we are right now with him.

1:07:12And that Apple, I don't think Apple and Google will do anything about it, which they should have before this. But he's backed off. So there you have it. Maybe they did behind the scenes. I don't know. Go ahead. Yeah. So we've been talking about Warner Brothers Discovery. It's about to go into boring mode where they just try and get CFIUS and antitrust and all the lawsuits and reviews, you know, for the next 18 or 24 months. the next thing that's going to preoccupy us is there's going to be uh most likely an activist because it's so bad but disney's going to be put in play the leadership transition here is uncertain um he says iger says he plans to retire but succession issues have traditionally invited shareholder activism and a moment of a leadership change is an opportunity for an activist to kind of pop up and play ceo have you been called scott galloway there you go yeah god that was i was literally the world's worst athlete in the history of UCLA.

1:08:08And I imagine I'm like the world's worst activist. They'll get pressure from activist investor, whether it's Nelson. You know, this thing, basically, it's at its... It's flat. In a market that's tripled or quadrupled, it's flat over the last 10 years. And you look at this IP in these parks. There's very few companies that have more assets than Disney right now. Nobody has it. Warner. Warner would be the second, but Disney's tough. You're right. There's just something about, I mean, look at Disney. These parks, these cruises are singular. And Netflix can't spin up a Disney park in two, three decades.

1:08:49It would take 50 years. Obviously, the IP here, Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, theme parks, ESPN. Why flat then? Why is it flat then? Because they haven't been able to grow earnings. they just and um that's and there's just you can't get around it you'd have to argue it's been poorly managed um you know it's like how on earth is intel worth less than it was 25 years ago when it was the leader in microchips i mean uh and also the thing the the biggest reason why disney will be put into play it comes from that movie what was it called wall street where charlie sheen is saying why did you have to go after this company why do you want to break this and he finally loses his shit and he goes because it's breakable and disney is breakable in the sense that unlike most media companies it has very modest anti-takeover or poison pill provisions it it has an annually elected board it doesn't have a staggered board once you get on a board and you said you know we're smarter than everybody else including our shareholders we'll start i was on the board of gateway computer and we finally found a fucking bidder to buy that joey bag of donuts company and all the board members sat around and said including the guy who went on to be the governor of Michigan, they tried to put in a poison pill.

1:10:03And they're like, we just want you to come in through the front door. And I'm like, all the like, Yahoo, you know, farm speak just means you think you're smarter than shareholders. You now think you own this company as opposed to shareholders. Disney has not done that. That means a bidder only needs to persuade the majority of shareholders to replace directors, which can make hostile approaches. He's been through this. He has been through a few hostels, as you know, with Ike Parmutter and a whole bunch of people. And also the other thing that I think is lined up here is I think people look at Disney and go, yeah, fucking A.

1:10:35Disney, someone should go in there and acquire 2 % and be an activist. And that's probably what happens here. But what Warner Brothers has probably shown the market that, oh, if you find the right billionaire and the right pockets of money in the Gulf and the right bankers really hungry for fees, you can assemble this type of money. And there's so much money on the sidelines. I don't think they'll let the Saudis into this one. It's going to be an apple. It's going to be someone who doesn't need the Saudi Hill. I'm just trying to think. Disney's an American brand. I mean, Warner is too, but Disney.

1:11:14There's no way. Aren't they opening a Disney in the Gulf, right? They are, but they're not going to let the Saudis own Disney. Well, I don't know. I think all you need to do is give Mickey Mouse a beard and a morality police. Okay. I think it's Apple. It's got to be Apple if they had it set. By the way, can I make another prediction besides these? They just have to change the name of the ride from It's a Small World to something like It's a Small World and more restricted that we live in. i i think i was at this dinner and a farmer guy was there and as i was sitting here i thought because they're doing pharma and tech are doing all these deals together whether it's open ai or all of them are doing deals these health deals i think big tech is going to go after pharma next and own oh that's super interesting i was like oh i looked at him and he's going on and on about Trump or something, I said, you know what?

1:12:11You're going to get owned by tech. You're the next frontier. They're doing the media stuff, but it's not peanuts compared to you. And actually, in terms of doing great things, AI combined with pharma is an amazing, huge opportunity. I think actually the golf hunting Disney is a bigger fit than you think, especially with, hold on, especially with the Star Wars franchise, desert planets, dynasties, family drama, Done. Fits perfectly. Okay. They can have the golf. They're not getting Disney. So they can have golf and tennis or whatever the hell, but not Disney. That'll be made. There'll be a lot of pushback on that.

1:12:51Anyway, I like that. They'd have to ban Gay Days. They'd rebrand them as imagination maintenance closures.

1:13:00Also, that's on Warner. He's a robber who's on Warner. Anyway, on HBO. Anyways, my prediction is Disney is about to be the object of our obsession. It's most likely going to be an activist because it still is a very big pill to swallow. But they have good for them. And I hate poison pill provisions and anything that shifts accountability and authority from shareholders to a bunch of people who think they're smarter than everyone else on a board because they show up for a Cobb salad and get paid$300 ,000 a year called boards of directors. you would not believe how arrogant we become when we go on boards i really i'm gonna go on a board this year that's one of my little balls all right board people i'm interested anyway uh that's a great prediction but i and you met you will and may steal my idea of tech buying big pharma okay but i just to come to your defense i thought of you and you'll like this because it makes you look good but you got a ton of shit on one of the social platforms no someone insulted me about my take on masculinity and then someone weighed in and said, yeah, and we should have known this.

1:14:01He partners with Kara Swisher, who's been a total, total corporate shill for big tech. And I thought immediately, I've been on, I've been on the nominating committee. When you go on a board and they don't like you, i.e. Scott Galloway, they put you on the stupidest committee. They put you on the nominating and governance committee. And the one thing the nominating and And I always end up on a compensation committee because it's the worst fucking committee. Or the absolute worst is the audit committee because you have to do real work. But anyways, on the nominating governance committee, the thing you do is find new directors when directors roll off.

1:14:34And good boards, you know, politely have a conversation with his golf buddy who's been there 24 years. Maybe it's time for you to move on. Or we talk to their nurse. But anyways, I'm not exaggerating. I know exactly what they're looking for in directors. you check every fucking box, literally and figuratively, except you're unafraid and you're a pain in the ass. If you were not speaking truth to power and totally unafraid, I'm not exaggerating. I think you'd be the chairman of fucking OpenAI or Tesla right now. So the notion, I think your abrasive truth, kind of tell truth to power has cost you, Kara, hundreds of millions of dollars.

1:15:20So for anyone on any social media platform, they can say they don't like you. They can say you're arrogant. There's some truth. Whatever. Fine. But to say that you are a corporate shill. I know. They do that. I don't know what the opposite of that is. I was close to Elon and wasn't. And they just can't. These are these sort of censorious fucks. And if you'd stayed close to him and kissed his ass, you'd be on the board of Tesla and worth$200 million. I'd be running CBS News. That's what would be happening. And I'd be standing at your place in Soho. Yeah, exactly. I know. I'm aware. I'm aware. But most of the criticism I get is from being with you.

1:15:51That's good to know. Board people, come find me. Yeah, okay. Anyway, we don't care that we're shrill or dislikable or anything else. We don't care. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Yes, we do not care because we like ourselves and we like each other. That's the way it's going to go. You're not going to split us up. We are going to do that ourselves. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. And be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

1:16:22We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Manolo Moreno edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Ms. Severo, and Dan Chalon. Nishat Kourouas, Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.