Trump VP Pick, Assassination Attempt Aftermath, and Guest David Plouffe

24:36This probably gives them more of a reason to do. And we see in every poll fascinating change because American politics has changed in this regard. It used to be a high turnout election would benefit Democrats, low turnout Republican. All the polls suggest to lower the turnout in this race, the better for Biden. So if Trump can actually create higher turnout, that helps him. But my big answer is who the hell knows? This is unprecedented. And I think we have to let quite a few days, if not weeks, settle before we get a sense of that. And it is like an ongoing Trump TV show in a lot of ways. Obviously, Trump's the star of this.

25:09Obviously, he just got off right now in Florida on the documents case for now, at least for now. Let's just say it probably will be overturned on appeal because this judge is that's what happens to this particular strange little Florida judge. But the idea of him changing, like I see that a lot. And I've noticed the media really pulled back its horns quite a bit. And I know they are doing that. His subordinates and his surrogates are not doing that. And he is not going to do that from my perspective. I think they'll take advantage of that, of the indignation. I've heard the word they did this to him.

25:44And I'm like, it's a young 20-year-old troubled Republican young man. But I don't think Republican even matters with this kid. I think he was just troubled in many ways. Exactly. Well, Kara, I agree with you. My point is, as a as a political practitioner, if Donald Trump somehow were to send real cues to people that this has changed me a little bit, you know, what if he actually said, listen, I was really upset I lost to Joe Biden. I think he's old and frail. But OK, I'm running against him because he clearly won. And I'll respect these election results. I think I'll win. Will he do that? No. It'd actually be a really smart thing for him to do.

26:20Will he stop talking about Hunter Biden? He won't do any of those things. Now, I will say this, having, you know, been responsible for conventions in the past, every word that a speaker says from that stage has been vetted by the Trump campaign. So they have complete and total control. So we'll know how seriously they are about just talking about immigration and inflation and foreign policy and not the personal tax. And of course, Donald Trump's rise back in 15 and 16 and till now was largely fueled by embracive violence rhetoric, you know, attacking Muslims, attacking Hispanics, by the way, then there were copycat murders and assaults.

26:58Right. That that those people said were because Donald Trump told him to. So this would go against everything we know about him. So my sense is this sense that I saw Axios wrote today that, well, we really believe this has changed him. We'll see. I hope it has. I highly doubt it. And I think we'll be right back in the political sewer, you know, before too long. We can all wish otherwise. I just seeing the surrogates that I'm watching, like Marjorie Taylor Greene is back to pedophiles and communists and Elon Musk. And well, J.D. Vance, who's on the short list, you know, basically Joe Biden for this.

27:29So, you know, we'll see. By the way, I mean, I don't know who the hell Donald Trump's going to pick. Maybe it's somebody none of us are really talking about. But if he picks J.D. Vance, that would strongly suggest that he's going to double down on everything he's done to date. Right. Well, he could put him in the cabinet or whatever else he could do with him or keep him in the Senate. One of the things that's interesting is the idea of emboldenment. I think when you get shot at and you miss, if you have a narcissistic personality disorder, you might think you're a god, correct? That would be my inclination for someone like this.

28:01Well, we don't know what he thinks. Certainly, that's been what a lot of his supporters say, that this was an act of poverty. And obviously, listen, we should all be so grateful because he has a father, a grandfather. Most importantly, we don't want anybody to get killed in this country. It is interesting. Again, this is an AR-15 that a lot of Republican lawmakers wear AR-15 buttons. Not the same outrage when, you know, young kids are slaughtered. But obviously, if Donald Trump had been assassinated, I mean, the country would be completely torn apart more than it is. So, you know, at the end of the day, I think, you know, he was convicted.

28:37You think being a convicted felon would change you. He now survived an assassination attempt. We'll see. He is, you know, been throughly and completely a narcissist in his behavior, not just in his political life, in his whole life. We'll see. I mean, again, a sane person might say, I'm leading right now. And there's no question he is. He's got a small lead. I'm leading in the race for president. I could avenge my loss in 2020. So let's gather as a team and talk about all the things I could do to further my advantage and chances. That just doesn't seem to be how he rolls. Kindness would be kindness would go a long way.

29:15Right. Something. And I'm not overstating it. He's still Donald Trump. But just some acknowledgement and some some like cue to to swing voters and even some of the Republican voters who aren't sure they want to vote for him that like, listen, I'm going to govern a little bit differently. I don't expect that to happen. But, you know, sometimes getting to 50 percent of the vote or 48 percent of the vote in this case does take rocket science. You know, right now for him makes me sad as a Democrat, less so. And so you should be in the business of addition, growing your market share. And that has never been seen what he's interested in.

29:49But I do think right now he's got a moment to potentially do that. Would it be just him and then just let the surrogates get mean? Or how does that run in these? I don't know how a convention runs. You've always been in the middle of one. Well, listen, I think consistency is really important. So I would have your surrogates this week and going forward, basically not depart too much from what he says. But again, my suspicion is maybe by Thursday night he'll be back to the same old Donald Trump. But if not, certainly by the next Thursday. And they'll all be back to, you know, basically pedophiles and, you know, Democrats are trying to ruin the country.

30:22Don't forget in the debate, you know, Donald Trump said Joe Biden would destroy America, has destroyed America. He's not been subtle. And that creates anger and division. So I but I think, listen, having run campaigns, what you want is every ad that you're responsible for, everybody giving a speech on your behalf, every message, you want it to be consistent. Two reasons. One is it's hard to reach people. So you want to definitely repeat, repeat, repeat until you're sick of it. But two, you don't want people coloring outside the line. So hope would work. Yeah, work for you. Right. But like what will frustrate me if there's a sense, oh, you know, Trump, you know, he's trying, but it's all these surrogates.

30:58He's got complete and total control. I just want your listeners to understand that. You don't leave anything to chance in a presidential campaign. Talk about the visuals. Which are the visuals? The last ones were pretty dark, as I recall. Yes. And megalomaniacal with the shadow and the whole thing. Yeah. Very uber 1.0, Kara, actually, the visuals. Yes, it's true. It's very Travis Kalanick. You know, I think there's—I've always been a fan of having as many people as possible. People behind you, people on the video stages, the lighting being a little bit upbeat. I think it's a great point. And convention people spend a lot of time on this.

31:33So, again, if the visuals are overly dark, it's not by accident. And so, you know, listen, if I were Trump, I'd have a bunch of people speaking at the convention and say, listen, I voted for Biden four years ago. Here's why I'm not. I hope Biden does the same thing in Chicago, assuming he's our nominee. So getting real people to speak about these issues rather than politicians, I think, is really important. But the only two speeches that really matter this week will be Trump's and then his VPs. You know, the conventions are long, a lot of speakers. But, you know, the networks only cover the major speakers.

32:03Although there's always one that sticks out, right? I mean, Obama, that's how Obama got on the radar. Your keynote can stick out, right? Somebody can surprise you. But so at most it's three. Cuomo, Obama, who else? Cuomo, Clinton. But that was for negative reasons. He overcame that. He gave like a three-hour speech back in 88. No, when before Obama was Obama, he gave that speech. Oh, it was critical to his rise. That's correct. There could be one of those. There could be on both sides. We'll see who Biden picks for the keynote. I hope it's somebody in their 30s, maybe even their 20s, who will excite people.

32:33But I think that the major thing and far and away, it'll be Trump's speech. And because of what happened Saturday night, there's going to be a lot more interest in Trump's speech than there would have been. I'm just curious, who would you pick for the keynote? Well, if I were him, I'd pick a young, diverse voice from, you know, Battleground State, if you could. I think Biden should do the same thing. I mean, we've got some really, whether it's Josh Shapiro, the youngest, youngest governor of Pennsylvania, Jasmine Crockett, I think the really dynamic congresswoman, Mark Kelly could be interesting from Arizona.

33:05But we've got a lot of talent. By the way, that's one thing that's been revealed in this discussion about should Biden stay the nominee or not. Obviously, I think if he doesn't, Kamala Harris will likely be it. But we got a lot of talent out there, man. We got a better bunch than we've had in a long time. So that's exciting, not just for 28, but for the convention. So when you're thinking of the vice presidential pick for him, does it really matter? So historically, if you look at all of them, they matter very little. Voters are choosing the presidential candidate. They're not voting for number two.

33:37pale and hurt McCain because it spoke to poor judgment. McCain was already, voters thought, was a little erratic. This added to that. Bush was able to overcome the first Bush, the quail pick back in 88, but it caused some turbulence for the campaign. So I don't think it matters that much. I will say there's a difference between, even though they share the same policies, a Rubio, let's say, and a J.D. Vance. J.D. Vance is, we saw from his statement after the assassination attempt Saturday. He's on the further. Now, it's all bullshit. You've talked to him. I've talked to him. You know, he didn't believe any of this stuff a few years ago.

34:11But this is the role he's playing now. And so I do think for some voters, they. But by the way, because Trump's 78, you know, there's also questions of, hey, if he's elected, there's a decent chance he won't make his his full term. And I don't say that because of an assassination attempt, just health. So I but how much does it matter? Not that much. I think it probably is the most over covered story in American politics as it relates to the campaign. It greatly matters in terms of the judgment of this person. And if something were to happen to them, is this a good qualified person? By the way, I'd also say Rubio is probably a lot more qualified to be president than J.D.

34:48Vance's. Oh, 100 percent. So before you just mentioned age for the shooting, all eyes were on Biden. That was the story. Now it's just swirled out of the situation and it will be swirled out for the next week at least. Do Democrats still try to get him to step aside? Is that still an ongoing debate? I know your former partner, David Axelrod, is working at this already. Well, it's a great question. I think it freezes for a little bit. And, you know, last week seemed like 12 weeks, right? There was part of last week where it looked like Biden had settled things down. Then it really a bunch of people came out against him.

35:22Then after the press conference, people like James Clyburn said, OK, I'm fully for Biden. And so I think he's probably going to survive this. I think that there's but but to me, this is healthy. I know it's not I don't like seeing it. We've got a little lively, isn't it? Well, my point is, like, this is a big decision for the country and our party. And I think that what he said in the press conference, you know, did say if my team tells me I can't win, I won't run. Now, General Malley Dillon, I can speak to. I know her very well. I'm sure she's telling Biden exactly where the race stands. I can't speak to other people.

35:51I hope they are as well. He's losing like he was losing pre-debate. he's losing now. Would you say it's impossible for Joe Biden to win? You'll never say that. So I think he'll hold on to that. And he has defied history in the past. But, you know, Donald Trump right now has probably a three to five point lead in the battleground states in a couple of states out west, maybe a little bit more than that. That's deeply concerning. Now, does that mean Kamala Harris or another Democrat would automatically switch that? No, there's risk in any, I think, situation here. But you've got to understand what caused a lot of the unrest last week was Democrats running for the Senate and running for the House got their own polls back.

36:31And they didn't like what they see because Biden has slipped. And a lot of them can probably perform two to four points better than Biden, but they can't overcome Biden losing eight to 10 points. You know, there's been polls suggesting New York and California are a lot closer than we'd like. And if we don't have the top of the ticket doing well enough in those states, we won't win the House, which could be really important in a scenario where Trump were to win, sadly. So I think the conversation will continue. But the other thing is, you know, Joe Biden is going to do some interviews this week, even though the campaign's curtailing their activity.

37:06He's in this very unenviable position where every public appearance is going to be judged really intensely. And there's clearly, if he has another really bad moment, I think there'll be more Democrats to come out and say he ought to withdraw. But the clock's ticking here, Cara. We got a couple of weeks. We got a couple of weeks, probably. And do you think that's a good thing? Well, it's just the calendar, right? We don't need to do the roll call virtually anymore. So I don't see why we would do that. Let's let it go to August. But, you know, at the end of the day, we do have to get on with winning the race.

37:37And if it's Joe Biden, what I think you'll see is even Democrats who said they wished he wouldn't run will get on board. I think he'll have surrogates in the battleground states. He'll have people in ads for them making the case. But Democrats should make no mistake. It brings me, you know, real pain to say this. This is the worst position a Democratic presidential candidate has been in since 1988. That's just a fact. That was Bush to caucus where the caucus actually led. But once we get into the summer, you know, Bush opened up a lead. This is the worst position. Doesn't mean Joe Biden can't win.

38:11But what drives me crazy is when people suggest that, you know, well, it's bad polls or look at this poll or we got to deal with truth here. And it's not just the polls. His approval ratings in the mid 30s, almost 80 percent of the electorate's not sure he's up for the job. He's got to answer those questions. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Talk a little bit about the involvement of tech people. There's a there's sort of a there's a there's a split in the tech group. There's the Reid Hoffman's Mark Cuban side, I'd say. And then the Elon Musk and his stance, essentially. Bill Ackman is in that little sad little gang with him.

38:47Talk a little bit about the impact of that, because after the shooting, you know, when all the Democrats were trying to be nice, they immediately attacked, immediately said it was a, you know, it was a Joe Biden ordered it or that it was DEI or whatever. They just continued on the same nonsensical bullshit that they tend to like to do constantly. But it was repetitive and it kept going. Talk a little bit about it. And then they decided to, because they're a narcissist, both Bill Ackman and Elon Musk, they had to say, we declare for him. Because they couldn't have the eye off of each of themselves at any one moment.

39:22Is that important or not at all? Or just a lot of rich people cosplaying powerful people? I think it's very much the latter, Kara. Let me give you one historical example. And it's a long time ago, but back in 2012 when Obama was running for reelection, you'll remember we had a really tough economy, high unemployment rate, you know, but we were starting to recover really tough race against Romney. So, you know, we're trying to research every way we could talk about the economy and some of that's validator. So best would be someone who worked at an auto plant saying, I only still have a job because Barack Obama stepped in and saved us.

39:53Great. Right. But it was also, could we talk to business leaders? And, you know, a lot of the tech community supported us back then. So we talked to voters in states like Ohio and Wisconsin and said, OK, what if these tech voters said Obama, they trust him to steward the economy? What would that mean to you? And they said it would actually either mean nothing or it hurt them because those people don't employ jobs in my community. They're very wealthy. They're disconnected from the real world. So I don't think it's going to have any impact with voters. Will they raise a bunch of money? Yes. And that helps a little bit on the margins.

40:25But money matters less than a presidential campaign. So I think they think they have more prominent voices than they do politically. They have Trump's ear. And that's not unimportant, because if he wins, they'll be in the Oval Office and they'll be talking to him. Well, and Musk, listen, you know, he's one of the most dangerous people on the planet right now. There's no question about that. He's really become not just unhinged, but really deeply anger and driving hugely dangerous and wrong accusations against immigrants, against women. It's really awful. Yeah. Well, if Biden wins, Musk loses badly.

41:02I suspect he's on the downward slope. If Trump wins, he's safer, for sure. Maybe. I mean, we'll see. What's interesting to me, I mean, let's talk about business for a minute. I'm amazed, and it's already hurting him, but if you think about the people who are thinking within a week's time about purchasing an electric vehicle, it wouldn't be hard to run a campaign against Musk to make sure you remind people they tend to be more progressive, more upper income. what he said, you have better options. It is malpractice of the highest order from a business standpoint. That's my personal opinion. But their voices in politics, will a swing voter in Wisconsin really matter?

41:36What these narcissistic tech bros say, I highly doubt it. Yeah. Do you regret your time doing tech? I mean, I'm sure you advise different tech people now, but how do you look at what happened with you there? Just for people that don't know, David worked for Uber. Yeah, I worked for Uber and then I spent, you know, I still spend some time helping the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative. So philanthropy, no, I'm very proud about what the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative does in science and education. Also Donald Trump threatened Mark Zuckerberg, but go ahead. You know, right. Zuckerbuck's insanity. All Mark and Priscilla were trying to do was help voting during COVID.

42:08And by the way, every county, including every red county, could access that money, and many did. You know, my time at Uber, I don't regret it. Obviously, there were some cultural challenges there that, you know, were a shock to me and were hard to manage through. But I look at Uber and, you know, particularly, you know, under DARA, there's been agreements with labor unions. There's health care benefits being offered in some states. It's like, I think I'm really mature way to evolve the business. But no, it's a source of work. It's a source of transportation. It's a source of how you develop cities.

42:38And to me, it was almost like getting, I don't want to overstate this, but kind of a faux PhD in the cities of the world, how they work, how they employ people, how you interact with public transportation. So I don't. The one thing I did find, and this isn't just about Uber generally, I think there's a lot of people who lead those companies, certainly. But some will work with them that almost pretend that they're not a business first, that they're doing societal good, they're a charity. And they're all businesses, right? Don't ever forget that. Don't confuse. Right. They're heroes in their own.

43:10And I think sometimes. Ready player one. I don't know if you understand that. Yeah, I love that book. But yeah, you know, so I think I think that's changed a little bit. But but I think it's it's hard when you're told you're changing the world first, as opposed to, hey, we're building a business that we think has some good societal impacts. It's hard when you get criticized. No different than politicians. I found some of the most thin skinned people I've ever dealt with are big financiers on Wall Street. They just can't take the criticism. But but I don't listen. We know our world's going to continue to be shaped by technology.

43:40You've been an amazing chronicler of that. Whatever you think about AI, you need to get as smart as you can about it. And to have as much as a front row seat to some of the changes in our economy is important. Now, you do a great job of criticizing those that could be harmful, leaders that aren't stepping up and doing the right thing from a leadership standpoint, but we can't hide from it. It's here to stay, whether it's quantum computing or whether it's AI. Listen, what's happening in battlefields in both the Middle East and Ukraine and Russia, warfare is going to be completely changed. And we have to understand this.

44:12And this is one thing that does depress me about a lot of the presidential campaign to date. Like, they didn't talk about AI, didn't talk about quantum computing, things that are going to define the next few decades. I'd love to see these candidates talk more about that. Well, they're not going to. It's not their era. Maybe they'll be forced to, yes. Maybe they'll come on your podcast. They absolutely don't understand it, and they are not equipped to do so. Let me finish up asking you about, you know, you and I had a back and forth about Kelly and Conway. I have so much regard for you and I do not have regard for her, I'll be honest with you.

44:42When you talk about getting along, this whole thing right now, everyone's like, we got to turn down the hook, we got to get along. I find you to be a very responsible, respectful, honest person. I do not think the same of her. I think she constantly is manipulating things in a very similar way, the idea, the words used and stuff. So talk to me about why you decided to do this podcast. I'm going to be as open-minded as possible. And just so you know, this week I had a long discussion with Ben Shapiro. He and I had a good... So I can talk to people like. Well, Kara, I appreciate you asking that.

45:10So I listen, I think, you know, modeling the fact that you can disagree without, you know, hating each other is important. You know, that was something I learned from Barack Obama. But that's not the reason that I'm doing it. For me, I had a podcast the last two years, last two election cycles, loved it. Talk mostly to Democratic operatives. The Republicans I talked to were never Trumpers. And I really thought to understand this election properly, both for myself and for listeners, you know, it's not shooting free throws. And someone who understands Donald Trump, Donald Trump world, those voters is important.

45:42And, you know, Kellyanne did not deny the election results. Important for me, maybe small line, but she said Donald Trump lost, criticized his criticism of early voting. So we're going to disagree about almost every policy. I'm sure I'll say things about Donald Trump. She certainly won't like I know she'll say things about Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I won't like. But what I found is when we talk about practitioners, let's talk about battleground states. Let's talk about how each campaign is dealing with early voting. You know, we'll talk this week about how you'd handle the RNC convention in the aftermath of the assassination attempt, how Joe Biden should campaign.

46:14I feel like there's something to be gained there. And what I've heard from people is who've listened to it is like, listen, it's interesting because we all are in our information. You're both practitioners. Even as it relates to – yeah, so I think when we're as practitioners, there's something there because I like being on MSNBC. I like going on Hacks and Tap with my friend David Axelrod. But we kind of see the race in the same way. And I find the more we can understand about how Donald Trump's run campaigns, how this one might be different, we understand the election a little bit differently.

46:43So that's why I did it. And I think that it's hopefully a service to people out there because I think that one of the reasons both parties are always surprised when they lose an election is their information streams tend to say, don't believe this bad poll or we're going to be OK. I mean, I'll never forget God back in 2012, which sounds like a quaint time. Republicans, including Mitt Romney, were shocked that he lost because Fox News in particular, those last 60 days were just like Obama is going to lose. Obama's going to lose. And I think the same thing can happen on our side. So I think that that's why I did it is for me personally to better understand 360 degrees of this election.

47:25I thought I needed to talk to someone not from the Trump side of the Republican Party, but from the Trump side, but someone who's a practitioner. And Kellyanne led a presidential campaign. She's a pollster. You know who I'd love to see you do a podcast with is Susie Wiles. Yeah. She seems fascinating. Well, by the way, I'm sure, you know, Tim Alberta from The Atlantic had this amazing story with Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita. She's the campaign manager, just like David was. Highly worth reading. It's a much more professional outfit. Doesn't mean I think some of what they said was bullshit and bluster, but, you know, two smart professionals leading, and that's important to know.

47:59Yeah, absolutely. All right, last question. When you are looking in the wake of all of what's happened this year, everyone uses the word unprecedented, right? Do you think these are unprecedented times or just times? Because we have a sort of a lack of historical knowledge in this country. Forget it goes down a memory hole, and that's that. To me, when you start to look at history, some of this feels very, it certainly rhymes. History rhymes. I agree with you, Kara. I think we're just going through times. And I actually, one thing I've observed over the last couple of decades is the things that would have been in prior times, like massive, and they'd be in the news for weeks and we'd all be reading and seeing the same things and talking about, they move on more quickly.

48:43Like even this assassination attempt, you know, a week from now may not be as heavily discussed on social media. So I think it's times. I think this election might be unprecedented just because, okay, now you have an assassination attempt this close to the election. You have an incumbent president who's being challenged within his party. You have a rematch. That's quite unusual. You have a lot of voters who actually disapprove of both candidates, so-called double haters. You've got an election where it seems like low turnout would help the Democrat. Very unusual. You've got Trump actually, in polls anyway, doing better with young black and Hispanic voters in a way that would be somewhat unprecedented in modern times.

49:20But Biden actually showing real strength of the older white voters. So there's a bunch of strange things happening. And so that's where I do say I have a lot of humility about this election because there is a lot of things happening that when they all collide together, we're not sure where it nets out. So I think this election, if it's not unprecedented, it's really taxing the system in terms of some unusual circumstances. But I think the times we're living through are just times. And I think I'm glad you call that out because I think that sometimes we can be narcissists about this has never happened before.

49:57It's like, actually, it has. There's real derangement from the right, for sure, forever, for a long time. And there's there's increasing derangement from the left. Like, it's really it's interesting. Like, you can't have an opinion without it getting. And it could, of course, it just could be noise, online noise, which I think it is, which is why. Well, 70 percent of Americans, I think, you know, I can't remember if it was Pew or Gallup, but, you know, they term them the exhausted middle where they actually agree on a lot of stuff. Not all stuff. They're not active in politics. And we know that, you know, the 20 to 30 percent of the folks in both parties that drive so much of the social engagement and and the attention, you know, they are not part of that exhausted middle.

50:34And by the way, I think more on the left actually believe their issues and what they're fighting for. I think on the right, there's an entertainment notion to it that, you know, the crazier you can be like MTG and others in even in the aftermath of an assassination attempt. You know, they believe that they're better for it. What is it? Madison Cawthorn, that one term congressman from North Carolina, said, I'm not going to hire any legislative staff. I'm just going to hire communications because it's basically a performance. And I think, sadly, too many people in that wing of that party believe that.

51:03Yeah, well, he had quite a performance, as you recall. Anyway, we'll get into that. He's gone. Good luck. Good riddance, Madison. Anyway, David, thank you so much. I really appreciate hearing from you. It's so nice to have some sensible talk. Well, Kara, thank you. And Kara, you are an interpreter for me about so much that's happening both in the world generally and tech specifically. Thank you. I appreciate it. You know, for the tech people, you just said I have four children, so I'm really good at toddlers. Anyway, anyway, on that note, thank you so much. All right. One more quick break and Scott and I will be back for wins and fails.

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53:02Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I have weird ones. I thought the court case against Alec Baldwin was just pure identity politics. And when the prosecution has to call themselves as a witness to defend their handling of the case, I think if he'd been a young woman of color, I don't think this case would have been brought. And I think he's a very unlikable old white guy. but everything I read, it just, I'm not a lawyer, but it made absolutely no sense to bring this case against him. And I'm glad, I thought the judge got this so right, and she was visibly angry at the prosecution. Yeah, she was.

53:43She was a good judge. Some of these judges are so good. Isn't she? She's so impressive. Not Eileen Dannen, but this one. Go ahead. No, but I was, anyways, I don't, and I have a story here. The, I did a podcast with Alec Baldwin. He invited me on his podcast when I released my book. It was like a year and a half ago. And he was so distracted, upset, didn't know his lines. And it was either his producer or my producer came on and said, we're really sorry, but Alec is, this was right after he'd been charged. Oh, the second time or the first time? I don't know. I forget if it was the, but he just, the prosecution had just announced that they were, you know, going after him essentially.

54:28And he was visibly so rattled he couldn't get through the podcast. And I don't, I don't blame him. Also, he has 900 children, but go ahead. My fail was what strikes me is just the worst type of identity politics and putting the patriarchy on trial with no legal justification. I think he's very unlikable, but it seemed like a lot. Agreed. But the nice thing about the bench is we're supposed to say it doesn't matter. I mean, I think there should be a civil trial and someone should sue him and take money from him, but that's different. I think he probably created an unsafe, sloppy environment on that set.

55:00Yeah, I don't. Anyways, I thought they got it right. I don't know if that's my fail or my win, but my win is in my brand strategy class, the most popular session of my course is something called the Brand You. And I talk about using brand strategy principles as a means of being successful professionally and using it as a guidepost for your own life. And I talk about very successful individuals who were outstanding at managing their own brand. And I use three examples, Margaret Thatcher, Muhammad Ali, and I'll get to the third. But they have a few things. One, they demonstrate excellence. They're just amazing at what they do.

55:36There's nothing like excellence or having a great product in terms of a brand. They have very strong visual metaphors, whether it's Margaret Thatcher's hairstyle or that knit pantsuit or suit she would always wear, Muhammad Ali. They're incredible storytellers, incredible in terms of the medium. I am so pretty or telling poetry. But more than anything, more than anything, they were so comfortable with themselves and their beliefs that they said, yeah, strip me of my medals. Fuck it. This is against my religious values. I am not going to Vietnam. Yeah, I don't care. I don't care about the minors or the fact that everyone is demonizing me.

56:21This is bad for Britain. They were comfortable with themselves and their own decisions. And my third example of this brand strategy of being successful through deft use of your brand was Richard Simmons. And Richard Simmons was, he actually didn't demonstrate that much excellence, but he had the fourth big feature, and that was empathy. And that is people want people who, The fastest way to get someone to like you is to like them. And when you're a public figure, and Bill Clinton was great at this. I met Bill Clinton at a fundraiser, and he came up to me, and he shook my hand, and he said, I heard you were raised by a single mother, too.

57:01And he looked at me, and he grabbed my hand, no joke, and he looked into my eyes, and he said, it wasn't easy, was it? Since then, I have raised money any time the Clintons do anything. You're such an easy lay. Oh, my God. Oh, that was it. That's his thing. He touched your arm, didn't he? empathy right but let's go through all of them okay uh visual metaphor i'm at la guardia i'm at la guardia it's 30 fucking degrees outside and this guy takes off his overcoat and he's wearing a sweater except it's not a sweater it's a tank top and back hair and at the moment i realize how horrific this is i also notice the guy is wearing dolphin short shorts remember dolphin shorts sure And K-Swiss with athletic socks.

57:44Richard Simmons. And it's Richard Simmons. And I'm not exaggerating. You saw him in the wild. I'm not exaggerating. But this is like 10, 15 years ago. I'm not exaggerating. The whole airport comes to a standstill. And all the TSA offers go, Richard. And he like clears people away from him, steps back, throws his hands into the air and goes, hello. Yeah. To the entire airport. And the airport went electric. And here's the thing about Richard Simmons. Empathetic, wanted obese kids, which he was, to be healthy, good at what he did, visual metaphors, always wore those short shorts, always wore that weird sparkly tank top and K-Swiss.

58:26He was gay before it was cool. He's like, I don't give a shit what you think I should be or not be. I am comfortable with who Richard Simmons is. Richard Simmons is down with Richard Simmons. All right. Okay. Richard wasn't out, by the way, just so you know. He just wasn't out. Oh, he was. But he wasn't. That was one of the issues the gays had. Oh, come on. Come on. In any case, listen, I'm not going to say a bad word about him. I don't care. He was fantastic. And let's pour one out. Anyways, my win is the life and times of Richard Simmons. Life and times. But let's also pour one out for Dr. Ruth, who also died, who I love.

59:05Speaking of someone who was who they were. I loved her. I love Dr. Ruth. and Shannon Doherty, who was Brenda on 90210, troubled, but it fascinates you, died sadly of cancer. And Shelley Duvall. You know what Dr. Ruth, though, really says? What a wonderful place America is. Where else could Dr. Ruth have immigrated? She had this wonderful line. She said, basically, one and a half million Jewish children were killed, and it's up to me to help repair the world. Yeah, she was a happy person. She was a happy warrior. But where else would she have recognized the influence and success if she hadn't immigrated to America?

59:47I agree. Anyway, all of them. I'm glad you brought that up. All of them. I hope you're all doing well. And I hope you and Luke Perry are in the peach pit right now, Brenda. Anyway, I will do mine. My fail as we tape this. Nearly 300 ,000 people are still without power on the Texas Gulf Coast. Today in Washington, it's close to 100 degrees, by the way, but there it's even hotter. A full week after Hurricane Beryl slammed into the area, some 80 percent of those customers of Centerpoint Energy, the power company, has been notoriously slow to restore electricity, leading Governor Greg Abbott to threaten to, quote, to, quote, impose my own requirements on Centerpoint that are geared to keeping the power on.

1:00:27I would arrest them, Greg. People in southeast Texas endured several days of triple digit heat index without air conditioning. Food is going bad. Remember, this is the state where they had a massive statewide power outage during a deep freeze and everyone was freezing. Same thing also, by the way, is happening in Vermont, flooding, massive flooding because of Beryl. It hasn't moved up the coast. It's just really reprehensible that they can't keep lights and energy on or get it on quickly after. This is an area of hurricanes. They should have this a little better sorted out at this point. So I feel terrible for all those people suffering in both Texas and Vermont.

1:01:04my win uh is guess what i did scott i i took twitter off my phone really i'm not i didn't i didn't quit it because i don't want someone to take my thing because that fucktards over there will take it but i i don't have it on my thing and i'm actually enjoying it i'm getting news from news organizations as i always do but now i don't immediately go and look there for news it's an easier it was my news it was my news thing and actually i'm getting a lot of news on threads. I have to say it's not that bad. It's not my I look at videos on fun videos on cooking videos on threads and and things that they do to build wood without nails and things like that videos like that.

1:01:41But I have to say I took it off. I feel so much better, especially having this happen with Donald Trump. I'm so glad I wasn't there looking at all that ridiculous QAnon bullshit conspiracy theory. And that's just Elon Musk. You know what I mean? I'm so glad I didn't do it. I feel good about it. I feel good. I feel like you're that Native American at At the end of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, it literally is so strong it pulls the sink up and he throws it through the window and escapes. Yes, that's what I did. That's what I did. That's what I've done. I still have my account. As soon as he defaults and decides he was not cut out for media and sells it to someone responsible, we'll go back.

1:02:15Yeah, we'll go back. I was glad to do that. And I actually did something. Speaking of community and doing things, I went to an Orioles game. I'm wearing an Orioles hat right now. That's a really cool hat. I was wondering where that hat's from. I will send you one. It was fun. We went to Baltimore, which is a city that I just love. It's so charming and interesting. We went for dinner. We walked around. We went to the aquarium. We went to the Italian section of there. And then we went to a game. It was so nice, everyone out. Sounds like a very American day. It was really great, I have to say. It makes you feel so much better.

1:02:43I feel 100 % better not being on Twitter and actually going to a baseball game, even though I had no interest in sports. But I got a hat. Anyway, Scott, see, you're changing me, Scott. You're changing me. Well, welcome. You're making me a better man. Welcome to Twitter Rehab. It feels really good. Yeah, thanks. It does. You didn't ask about my weekend. What did your weekend? What did you do? You were in London, right? Literally 18 hours ago, I was watching Spain win or beat Team England at the Olympic Stadium in Berlin. It was great to get a look at that Olympic plaque. 1936, Jesse Owens won the gold medal.

1:03:17But Team Spain is just incredible. They have probably the strongest young players. And Team England, the British fans love to shitpost the team for some reason. They did amazing this tournament. But me and my youngest got our kits and we followed the team around. We went to Munich. We watched the game in Dortmund. And then we just went to the game in Berlin. And it was just fantastic. Germany is such a wonderful country. Every city I go to, Berlin's kind of got this edge and cool to it. I did my favorite thing in the world. I did Big Fat Tire Tour, or what's it called? Fat Tire Bike Tour, where you go to all these World War II historical places, Hitler's Bunker, these guard towers, and my 13-year-old pretended to be interested.

1:04:01Did they have the bunker? They thought they got rid of the bunker. The bunker's now a parking lot. They purposely wanted to make it as nondescript as possible. Yeah, they covered, that's right. And then when we went to the Memorial for Murdered Jews and my son was asking me thoughtful questions about it, it was really just such a rewarding experience. I absolutely love Germany. And there's a lesson in here, and I apologize because I'm hijacking your win. But Germany has been for the last 200 or 300 years one of the most liberal, progressive, accepting societies, a thriving gay community before it was cool, different religions welcome except for a 12-year period.

1:04:41And it's just very strong memory or I think a strong reminder for all of us to think that it can't happen in America ignores history. 1935 Germany or 1931 Germany, progressive, Jews welcome, celebrated academics, a thriving gay community. This shit can turn so fast. And by the way, Germany's turned back. Germany is now one of the most tolerant, progressive nations in the world. Some scary right-wing stuff going on. Well, that's happening across all of Europe. But I would say on the whole, Germany gets a really outstanding grade for coming to grips with its history and being a wonderful progressive nation, economic powerhouse, amazing manufacturing sector.

1:05:28And not only that, how can you not love? I find in New York, things are either sequestered. There's either things for kids or in America, you go to Disneyland, which is just awful for the parents, great for the kids. Or you go to a great bar, which is great for the adults, but kids aren't welcome. Germany is the literally, the threads to needle perfectly. They have beer gardens with trampolines. Yeah. Well, unlike France, which does not like your kids any to be seen. In any case, it can happen here. And by the way, if you want to listen to a lot about that, you should listen to my interview with Rachel Maddow today that's on On.

1:06:02We talked about that. We do talk about Germany and how it tried to propagandize this country. It didn't work last time. And now we're doing it all by ourselves. Anyway, we got to go. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Scott. I'm going to say it again. It means excellent in German. Thank you. Far for Nugent. That's the only word you know. Your wife speaks German. Can you come up with some more moves than Far for Nugent or not? Can you do that?

1:06:32Yeah. No. Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday with more. Please read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Indertod engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mils Saverio. Nishat Karouaz, Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at endmymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Rest in peace, Shannon Doherty, Richard Simmons, and Ruth Westheimer.

1:07:07And Shelley Duvall. And Shelley Duvall. Thank you. Thank you.