Trump's Meme Stock, Florida's Social Media Law, and the Baltimore Bridge Collapse

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0:34We're waiting for you for the show. We're sitting here cooling our jets. Oh, shit, I had no idea. Oh, you had no idea. Get going. Come on.

0:45Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And who are you who is late to the party? Yeah, I was squeezing orange juice. And I'm drinking orange juice because... Why were you squeezing orange juice? Well, I like to stay regular. And here's the thing. I am very regular. I always care. I always have a... You're talking about pooping? Well, here's the thing. It works for me. I always have a bowel movement at 8 a.m. every morning. The problem is I don't wake up until nine. That's good. That's good. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I can't believe this. Little grune, regular old guy humor there.

1:19You know, interesting. I'm in Boston. Everyone was asking about you at my event last night with Governor Maura Healey, who's the governor of Massachusetts for a book event. A number of lesbians came up to me and said they like your penis jokes, just so you know. This is the thing. I think media has a tendency to bag advance women. It immediately portrays women as these. What? Well, I think media has a tendency, and unfortunately it teaches young people, that women have less agency and that they're always victims and that they're not as strong as they are. And also, women are dirtier than people think.

1:54Women have the same profane, vulgar thoughts. And here's one of the things we're accomplishing here, and I figured this out on my ketamine trip. We are taking vulgarity and humor and profanity and ability to laugh at ourselves back to progressives. Oh, okay. Yes. Lesbians can laugh. Yeah. I'm not joking here. I think one of the things that, you know, when I look back on this, that I'll feel really good about is that you and I respect each other's differences, but we also rib each other and it's a form of affection. We're not trying to diminish each other. I make jokes about your sexuality. You make jokes about mine.

2:27Yes. And it's okay. It's okay. And the thing I think that really hurts the left is we're now perceived as fucking humorless. And that's not true. No, we're not perceived. That's an old trope. It's not true. It's not true at all. Oh, we're so sensitive. No, come on. The right wing is now like ridiculously censorious now and like tsk, tsk, and you can't do this, you can't do that. I think the right is owning that space these days completely. By the way, I absolutely think we should have a sponsored prayer moment. Have you seen this on Fox? No. God, it's the best. What? They're now doing prayer live and it's brought to you by some prayer app.

3:03Well, did you buy the Trump Bible? Oh, there's a Trump Bible? No, I haven't bought that. Yeah, he's selling a Bible now, 60 bucks. Can I just say my favorite part of the whole ad for the Trump Bible is the guy who's selling it with him goes, so what's your favorite passage? And he's like, I don't want to say. The guy kept pressing him. The guy was like giving him a tough interview on what his favorite biblical passage was. It was interesting. That happened to Trump, John Halliman. Yeah, just did again. He's selling a Bible and he couldn't come up with a Bible verse. Yeah, they're like New Testament, Old Testament.

3:32He's like, I don't know, Medium Testament. The guy has absolutely no regard or concern for— He hasn't cracked a Bible in his whole life. Anyway. By the way, the hotel room you're staying in looks like one of those hotels you go to to kill yourself. It's not very uplifting. No, no. It is what it is. I've had a hard week, Scott. My mom broke her hip. My mom fell and broke her hip. I'm sorry to hear that. Is she in the hospital? She is now. And after extensively being told if she didn't have help, she would fall and break her hip, which is precisely what happened. And so she is, she goes to rehab.

4:05She's as lively as ever. Let's just, anyone worried about lucky, she's as lively as ever in blaming everybody else. So there you have it. I was going to say, lively is Kara speak for a total pain in the ass. Yeah, I, you know, we told her this was going to happen. And then, you know, it's interesting. I only mention it because I think a lot of people have this issue getting parents as they move out of their independent stage of their lives into something that requires a lot more help. And I think a lot of people have difficulty And it's hard to get my mom to recognize her problems or deficits that she needs help with or to take help.

4:40And it's a really interesting phenomenon that I hear from a lot of people, at least my age, dealing with parents. You're dealing with it. I'm dealing with it. My dad's about to turn 94. and but just going to a more tactical thing once you hit your 50s and 60s you really want to take advantage of the last chance to get your quads your glutes your hams and your abs really strong and also start doing and i'm doing this now i'm doing these balancing exercises because core strength and balance are because unfortunately the mortality rate goes way up when you slip and break a hip well i will make sure lucky does her core exercises if i could get her to do that I can't get her to wear that thing around.

5:19I've fallen. I can't get up thing around her neck. I can't get her to do that. It's really, it's just a - Grip strength VO2 max and having a really strong core and great balance literally extends your, not your lifespan, but your health span by years. Yeah, I think we're past that with Lucky. Did you see Jerry Seinfeld said I was funny? He was on his podcast and he's like, that Kara Swisher's hysterical. She was getting laughs. She was throwing lines. Just so beautifully done. If you want to watch a great comedic performance from someone who's not supposed to be funny, check out Kara Swisher on Bill Maher's last show.

5:55That's high praise. So women can be funny. Anyway, but we've got a lot to get today, including misinformation swirling online around the Baltimore Bridge collapse. What a thing. Oh, my God. That video was something else. And Florida's new law that will effectively ban kids from social media. You'll be surprised what we think, I suspect. But first, Ronna McDaniel is out at NBC following a backlash from staff. An apology memo from NBCU News Chairman Cesar Conde was sent to employees saying the hiring undermined the goal of a cohesive and aligned newsroom. Reminder, McDaniel's hiring caused on-air complaints from high-profile names such as Rachel Maddow, Chuck Todd, and Joe Scarborough.

6:34McDaniel is reportedly exploring legal options and expects to be paid out and full of her contract of$300 ,000 annually for two years. I think they should pay her. They made a mistake. I think they shouldn't have hired her in the first place. place? I don't know. They should pay her. I can't believe they hired her. That's my beginning gambit here. I don't know. What do you think about this? This seems like a real stupid move on their part. Your thoughts? I mean, you knew the moment it was over. When Rachel Maddow came out and came out against her, that's like, okay, she's done within 24 hours.

7:08Because that's like Michael Jordan saying, I don't like the new rookie on the team. Phil Jackson's going to find a reason to trade the new rookie right away. And you knew it was over for her. You're absolutely right. Of course they should pay out. The management team fucked up. They did poor math here. Good for them. A step back from the wrong direction is a step in the right direction. They course corrected quickly. But here's the thing. They fucked up. She convinced them to hire them, despite them knowing, at least having some idea that she was an election denier. She has a contract. Unlike Elon Musk, who decides, says, sue me and doesn't hold himself accountable to legal contracts, employment contracts, Comcast and MSNBC should say, we fucked up.

7:51We're sorry. You're out. Here's congratulations. Look, CNN paid me out for the full year when they pulled CNN Plus, because guess what? I had a contract and they honored it. Right, exactly. You know, I think there's a really, there's a great idea to bring in different voices. And I think a lot of the cable companies do that. Like there's a lot of, you know, there's always a right winger on the little panel or whatever. This woman, like just a short checking of the things she said were just so egregious. I'm just saying this woman was not someone who deserved any kind of platform, I think, in a news organization.

8:25Go ahead. What if someone, I won't even name names, but a lot of people attack you. You get more. I get some attacks, you get more. What if they brought someone who had just lied about us and accused us of being propagandists and they said, oh, the new podcast from Vox. We were like, what the fuck? She undermined the credibility and attacked incessantly many of the journalists at MSNBC. And then they want them to work with her? I mean, it was just such a tone-deaf move. I wonder why they didn't consult Matt Ouer, Todd, or Scarborough, or any of them. That I don't get at all. Why not? Why not ask them?

9:07Because it's a controversial person. Like, particularly controversial people. You know, it's one thing if it's, I don't know, Ken Buck or who has been, you know, truthful. And it's another one. It's someone who was pushing election lies that they've been reporting on. You know, I thought Kristen Welker did a pretty good job with her on the interview. She had booked her before she knew that she was hired, which put her in a terrible position. But it was just kind of ridiculous. Like she changed her tune. She was suddenly like, I believe the election was fine, even if there were some little problems.

9:41Like, she changed her tune completely to she's a liar in some fashion, like, on either side of this trade. I just—she's—there are certain people who are liars, and they shouldn't be allowed on—they shouldn't be hired, at least. They can be on the air if they want to create their—you know, they can go on Fox News. But there's separate issues here. You're right. The management team—you know, this was an IQ test. like this election denier, it's one thing to be the spokesperson and always spin shit. It's another thing when you're, when you know, she knew she was lying. She knew she was lying. And then she was attacking the people that she's going to then try and go to work.

10:21They fucked up. And to their credit, we all screw up. They acknowledge it. They, they unfucked it. The issue around what you asked about why didn't they check, you can't do that. Because the problem is once you start checking with your employees, Jim Bancop didn't call me and ask about the new podcast they've launched. The problem maybe called you, but - They did. There you go. I knew you were going to say that. When management starts checking with on-air employees about the other on-air employees they bring on, they give them the sense that they're going to check with them not only all the time on hires, but on fires.

10:54And it's a bad precedent. I guess. I guess just for this person, this one's a particular - I mean, if someone has a personal history working with her, they might want to say, what do you think of this individual? But the moment you give people like this with enormous egos, which people in front of the camera have, otherwise they wouldn't put up with the bullshit to get to the point where they're on camera. The notion that they somehow have veto rights over hires and fires, that's a bad precedent to set. I think calling Maddo might have been a good idea in that case, since she's carrying the network.

11:19Anyway, we'll see. It's a bad mistake. We'll see where it zeroes out. But by the way, speaking of good calls, we called it Reddit's IPO is a victory. Shares of the company are up 15 % at the time of taping. After jumping 48 % on the first trading day, Reddit's market cap is currently over$9 billion. Another thing we called Trump Media is a meme stock. Shares of the company jumped over 50 % in the first minutes of trading, causing a brief volatility pause. Trump Media is trading at a market cap of almost$8 billion. The company made just$3.4 million in the first nine months of 2023. which is, and they lost a ton of money.

11:55They're losing, they're down 39 % in users. It's just a, it's a scam of some sort. It's just a Ponzi scam. I don't know what's the word you would use. So talk about Reddit first and then Trump media stock. We call this the Reddit most traffic site in America that's not owned by Alphabet and terrible monetization of that traffic. But at the same time, that represents the opportunity. and there's also a ton of money on the sidelines it just all the moons lined up i just you could just feel this thing was going to get a big pop and also there's this very strange dynamic in the ipo market where it now makes sense for the company to price below the actual value they could get such that because here's the thing we're talking about the fact that it was up 48 that's it's the only time you have this branding event to be kind of the most successful or one of the more successful IPOs of the year.

12:49And people say, well, they left money on the table because they could have priced it higher. When you're talking about a float of 20%, maybe you lose 2 % of the company, but to be one of the most successful IPOs of the year and set the tone for your company, it's worth the dilution. So this is the racket and it is a racket. The investment banks say price it below what it's worth and it's good branding. It creates nice momentum, nice halo for you. You only give up a little bit of dilution and we, the investment bank get to essentially give free money to our institutional clients who generate fees for us.

13:19Now, the unfortunate thing is the average retail investor doesn't get to participate. They have to buy it at 47 bucks, even though it priced at 34, I think. So it's a racket. It's another example of a transfer of wealth from lower middle-income homes to institutions and rich people or people with access. Some people would argue, well, Vanguard, Blackstone have a lot of money from firemen and teachers and they get to participate. But be clear, the IPO market is an insider game and it is a bit of a fixed racket. Yeah. Where's it going to go from here? I think they'll just have to, now they'll be on the basics of what their business is like going forward, I think.

13:55There's only one thing that matters from this point forward. Right now on its basic numbers and its growth, it's overvalued. If they show any momentum that they are able to better monetize that Niagara Falls of traffic, the stock will go up from here. If they do not show momentum around monetization of their traffic, it's going to go way down. All I can tell you is in a year, the stock will not be here. Yeah, I would agree. I think they've got it. It's going to be on there, but it's still a very small, it's very Snapchatty. It feels very Snapchatty, very great, a good product. We'll see if they can look like better than what it is.

14:28I like the people who run it and it's still small. It's still a very small social media site. The contrast with Snap is Snap had much better user interface, in my opinion, was probably more innovative, better monetization, but didn't have nearly the traffic of Reddit. And I think the market is deciding that the harder part is to get the traffic, that you can probably figure out the other stuff. Because this is trading at a rich valuation. Now, as a segue to true social, okay, let's talk about NVIDIA. Nvidia is arguably the eye of the storm for hype around AI, and it's trading at 37 times sales.

15:07Oh my God, that's insane, right? 37 times sales, Reddit's trading at 11 times. So 11 for Reddit, digital media, potential huge growth. We'll see. uh nvidia arguably hottest company in the world 11 000 people turn out like like a justin bieber concert or bands a concert at the san jose stadium to see jensen huang speak the financialization the idolatry of innovators and billionaires anyways that's trading at 37 times sales truth social is trading at 1500 times sales you want to talk about a company that is jenga or a house of cards. And by the way, not financial advice. I would not get near this thing because you don't know what will happen because this has nothing to do with the fundamentals.

15:51Because you don't know if their followers are going to do it. It's all based on his followers. And if they're going to keep it up, they're going to keep getting him money. It's also a very deft way to give him money, right? If he's going to sell it is to keep it's a really complex way to give him money. But he you know, they're trying it's all Trump fans. And it's going to be Trump donator, people who want to donate in a different way, just to keep it going. And there's all these rumors that he's getting people to keep it going, you know, by buying. All you have to buy is just a little bit to keep this stock in a crazy zone.

16:22You don't have to buy that much. And that there's all kinds of games happening here. I think this is an SEC violation happening in real time right now. And I think it's a shareholder lawsuit situation. And it's a scam of some sort. It's not even a scam. What is it? It's a meme stock. It's a meme stock. But it's the memiest meme stock in meme bill, as one of the reporters called it. And just stay away. Even shorting it is a very dangerous situation, correct? Because you get squeezed. My advice to anyone here is not to get near this thing, because it's not trading. It's just unknown what it's trading on.

16:58As far as we know, he calls someone in the Gulf and says, I'll make sure that we buy oil from you. Just do me a favor, come in heavy. And you're right, there's a tale of a whip here. A small amount of purchases can send the stock skyrocketing. And you don't want to get near this thing right now. I mean, AMC and GameStop were considered kind of the ultimate meme stocks. They're shitty businesses, but they were businesses. They were doing billions in revenue. You could make an argument for theaters coming back. You and, I don't know, download a video game. You can make an argument, good, decent management, the guy from Chewy, whatever.

17:36You can make an argument there. This does 3 million in revenue. There's not even, there really isn't even a business here. Yeah, he just has to call some guy and say, buy a million bucks, buy a million bucks here. And it's like cost of doing business for people if he becomes president. That's really it. It's so corrupt. It's so crazy corrupt. It's just going to be very interesting what happens. The board is his son, Devin, and then who is it? It's another - Devin Nunes, his son, another one. They're all his friends. Oh, Linda McMahon. Yeah, another one. This makes Tesla's board look like a model of corporate government.

18:11Yeah, it's true. And they can announce, we've decided to reduce his lockup period or eliminate it, and he can sell shares right away. They will have to disclose that. What will be really interesting is what happens to the stock if and when it's disclosed or we get close to any date where he can sell. Because my guess is he's using that stock, and I don't know if he has to disclose this, to guarantee his ability to raise the$175 million he has now. But this guy is going to sell most or all of it. He knows there's nothing there. And then what happened with the meme stocks is everyone together, they say, let's take over the castle.

18:49We can do it. We can kill these short sellers. And they do it. And then they look at each other and they fall asleep and they go, I need to get out of here before there's a rush out the door. That's right. The other guys. And they're all looking at each other. And there's only one person they're looking at here. And it's the following. When can Donald Trump sell? And when does he sell? I just feel it's going to be so – this is going to be such a case. It's his next criminal case or his next civil case where he's going to be sued for doing whatever he's doing. And there'll be emails everywhere because they're so clottish at their corruption.

19:20Anyway, on a more serious basis, Russia has extended Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershevich's pretrial detention until the end of June. This is just torture for this guy who did nothing. Today marks the one year since Gershevich was arrested. He attempted to appeal several times and has appeared in court 12 times. He was last seen in February in a Moscow court. I mean, Donald Trump's favorite thug is just using this to torture this very fine reporter. I don't know what to say about it. It's just, it's repulsive. It's awful. I mean, it's, what can you say? I appreciate, and I like that people, including Jay Kapper's been great on this, are consistently reminding people, as is the Wall Street Journal, as they should, reminding them that an innocent man is in prison held up on trumped up charges.

20:09I mean, there's just no getting around it. And we still have Paul Whelan, a former U.S. Marine, in prison. And I mean, these travel advisories, I would tell anyone, I don't care if you're a journalist, I won't go to Russia right now. I wouldn't go to China right now. Never go to Russia. Just don't go. I agree. I was saying that. Someone's like, are you going to go to China? I'm like, absolutely not. I wouldn't go to three places, Saudi Arabia and the Gulf, Russia or China. I've been to the kingdom. It's really nice. But anyways, we're two for three. We mostly agree. Well, I call them murderous thugs, so I think I'm not going to go.

20:42Anyway, our heart goes out to his family, obviously, and him. Biggest reformer in the world right now is MBS. I hate that data gets in the way of your narrative, but no one is making more reforms right now than MBS. And yet he's a murderous thug. I agree with that. Anyway, we're arguing a lot about this today. I don't like people who dismember people. It's just my thing. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about how the Baltimore Bridge collapse became a target for conspiracy theories and take a listener mail question about appearance and etiquette when it comes to job interviews.

21:15There is a lot to talk about when we talk about Donald Trump and Jimmy Kimmel. One big question I've got is why in 2025 are late night TV shows like Jimmy Kimmel's show still on TV? Even in our diminished times, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, they're just some of the biggest faces of their networks. If you start taking the biggest faces off your networks, you might save some nickels and dimes. But what are you even anymore? What even is your brand anymore? I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels. And that was James Ponowozik, the TV critic for The New York Times. This week, we're talking about Trump and Kimmel, free speech, and a TV format that's remained surprisingly durable for now.

22:04That's This Week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

22:12Scott, we're back. Misinformation surrounding the bridge collapse in Baltimore is spreading widely around social media. conspiracy theorists, far-right extremists, politicians, and others are pushing unfounded claims that the incident was tied to a cyber attack, the border, and yes, DEI. The collapse currently under investigation, but President Biden officials have said there's no indication it was intentional or terrorism related. I don't even know what to say. Anything that happens, these lunatics think it's a conspiracy theory or it's the fault of, you know, people of color. I don't even understand why this is the go-to.

22:46What's the connection to DEI? I don't know. It's because it was, I don't know. Because, you know, Nancy Mays, who's lost her ever love and mind in so many ways, it was like, it's because of the infrastructure bill. I just, I don't even understand. I don't understand. It's lunacy. Every time there's a thing like this, there's a conspiracy theory attached to it. And now instead of just sort of under the surface, they just surface again, once again. And it's really, there's nothing that can happen in this country now that doesn't get a conspiracy theory attached to it instantly, right? Instantly.