Trump's Rally, Bezos Backlash, and Guest Daniel Lubetzky

25:13They don't call the cops. They don't call the fire department because they're worried about being sent home. And they're this flexible, inexpensive workforce. Oh, and by the way, they pay taxes. And then they tend to leave once the crops are picked, or there's a lack of demand or a lack of supply of jobs. It's sort of the ultimate flexible, highest ROI labor force in history. And this is, I don't want to excuse what he's doing, but we should have immigration laws that allow a guy like Elon Musk to stay more easily. I would like to see anyone who shows that kind of IQ, risk-taking, even back then he demonstrated this, we should accommodate.

25:50If you know anybody, when I first started L2, the most talented, and I talked a little bit about this, one of the most talented people I've ever run across, this woman named Claude DeJokas, took me into a conference room and said, I need to speak to you. She'd gone to Yale. She was a gymnast Canadian. She said, I have to leave. I couldn't get my visa in time and I have to leave and I have to go back to Canada. And you're doing no such thing. I have money. I'm going to hire lawyers and we're going to figure this out. And unfortunately, if you have money, you usually can figure this stuff out. But the fact that our INS or whoever it is, is kicking the most talented people out of the country and at the same time turning a blind eye to the most profitable part, it's just all it's all fucked up.

26:33But, yeah, this is going back to the beginning. It is incredibly hypocritical, although I don't think he's been that aggressive against illegal immigrants. Has he been or immigrants? Yes. He's like half the negative stuff on Twitter that's inaccurate is from his tweets. About immigrants? Yes. Oh, no, he's like demented about immigrants. See, I'm not an ex. I don't see it. Ugh, he's just like dialing it up everywhere he goes on immigrants. That's been his biggest focus lately. He got off the trans for a minute, and then now he's on immigrants. And I don't know, woke, I don't know, whatever. He's a tiresome scold.

27:07You said something earlier in the podcast I didn't realize. I've just been blissfully ignorant over the past, over this weekend. In Florida. Yeah. He had you think that the the font on his hat was purposely reminiscent of Nazi propaganda? It's a it's a font. It's not it's a Nazi font. Look like it. Look like the Nazi font to me. Anyway, you know, I always think of this. The thing that really got me, I'll tell you, was that they did this Madison Square Garden thing just miles from the Statue of Liberty. right where on the sceptual liberty there's a poem which is called the new colossus right it's a sonnet by emma lazarus right she wrote the poem in 1883 to raise money for construction of it and the last part keep your ancient lands your storied pomp cry she with silent lips give me your tired your poor your huddled masses yearning to breathe free this is the part i think is important the wretched refuse of your teeming shores and these the homeless tempest toss to me, I lift my lamp besides the golden door.

28:10I mean, honestly, what is, my grandfather came in on that, on a ship. He was a wretched refuse. He was nobody. And he made a company. He raised children. You know, it's just, it's so depressing. It's so depressing to watch these people. Thank you. That's my poetry. That's why I'm really bothered by this. It's just grotesque, I think. And they're so lucky, these people who are doing this. They're so rich. They're so—they've got everything, and they still can't be generous. It's astonishing, and they're so hateful. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Michelle Obama making her amazing case to male voters.

28:51And we'll speak with a friend of Pivot, Daniel Lubitsky, about his efforts to hold politicians accountable for their words and actions.

29:02The spirit of innovation is deeply ingrained in America, and Google is helping Americans innovate in ways both big and small. From improving emergency response times to protecting against cyber attacks, local, state, and federal governments are innovating with Google AI. This is a new era of American innovation. Find out more at g.co slash American Innovation. There is a lot to talk about when we talk about Donald Trump and Jimmy Kimmel. One big question I've got is why, in 2025, are late-night TV shows, like Jimmy Kimmel's show, still on TV? Even in our diminished times, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, they're just some of the biggest faces of their networks.

29:47If you start taking the biggest faces off your networks, you might save some nickels and dimes. But what are you even anymore? What even is your brand anymore? I'm Peter Kafka, the host of Channels. And that was James Ponowozik, the TV critic for The New York Times. This week, we're talking about Trump and Kimmel, free speech, and a TV format that's remained surprisingly durable for now. That's This Week on Channels, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

30:24Scott, we're back with more political news. Michelle Obama made a powerful plea to voters over the weekend at a rally in Michigan, her first appearance on the trail this year. She's such a good speaker. Obama warned about the risks that Donald Trump poses to women's health and told women they should demand to be treated as more than baby-making vessels. She also took a page out of Scott Galloway Playbook and directed her argument towards men. I think she must be listening to you, Scott. Let's listen. But to anyone out there thinking about sitting out this election or voting for Donald Trump or a third party candidate in protest because you're fed up.

30:59Let me warn you, your rage does not exist in a vacuum. If we didn't get this election right, your wife, your daughter, your mother, we as women will become collateral damage to your rage.

31:19Scott, you could have written that. What do you think of the case? I thought it was I thought it was arguably the most powerful speech given in 2024. I would agree. Both of them. because as someone who's thinking a lot about masculinity, and I'm writing a book on it, trying to figure out an aspirational modern form of it, given the world has just changed, you know, I come to these three legs of the stool, provider, protector, and procreator, and protector she just called on. And another quote in the speech that I thought was just outstanding, if your wife is shivering and bleeding on the operating room table during a routine delivery gone bad, her pressure dropping as she loses more and more blood or some unforeseen infection spreads and her doctors aren't sure if they can act, you will be the one praying that it's not too late.

32:06You will be the one pleading for somebody, anybody to do something. And then she goes on to say, if we don't get this election right, your wife, your daughter, your mother, we as women will become collateral damage to your rage. this is really trying to call on what men should have as a default operating system as men, and that is to move to protection. And she called on that. She said, look, guys, it's time for you to step up and protect us. We are under threat. And going very base, the reason women choose mates in large part is based on who they believe if they are vulnerable, especially during a time of pregnancy or when the kids are young, that you have the skills, the intellect, the kindness, the strength, the courage to protect them.

33:03That is primarily the key reason why women find certain men more attractive than others. And men, if they want to express their masculinity, if they want to be true men, their default has to be to protection. And there is no one who we are set up to protect or have more of an obligation to protect than the mothers, the spouses, and the daughters in our life. And I thought she just tapped into that perfectly. I thought it was so powerful. Yeah, and it wasn't tisky. It's like, let me tell you, boys, it was really—she's such a gifted political speaker. Man, her Democratic, having been there when she did it and also then watching it later, what a political talent.

33:50Honestly, someday. I know she doesn't want to run, but I'm like, she articulates things. I know she's a lawyer. She's going to be good at talking. She's trained as a lawyer. But, man, she's an astonishing person. Anyway, let's change the subjects. Let's talk some entertainment news. California Governor Gavin Newsom wants to get Hollywood back on track with massive increase in the state's film tax incentives. We touched on this last week about the number of productions declining in the California area. Obviously, that's been happening for a while, and it was always completely there, and then they moved around to other countries, etc.

34:24But Newsom announced a proposal on Sunday to boost the state's tax credits from$330 million to$750 million. Still not that much. Increase could take effect as early as July 2025 if approved by the state legislature. Overall production in the L.A. area was down 5 % in Q3, the weakest quarter of the year, below 23 strike levels. California has lost production dollars to other states that offer attractive incentives. Georgia, as you know, is among them, but New York also, as well as countries, including Canada and Croatia. Croatia apparently looks like a lot of places. You know, it's a lot cheaper to send people all over the place.

35:00And Georgia's made a really aggressive and has a lot of production happening there, which is a good thing for a state to do to bring things in and away from California. So what do you think about this? I think it's not very much money, but it's more money. What do you think? This is a good move. And in general, in general, I don't like subsidies because it ends up being a race to the bottom and corporations do this. And when everyone wants to be the Pepsi generation and keep snoring shit at Amazon and they lie and say that Columbus, Ohio or Phoenix actually have a shot when it ends up just being whoever's closest to his man caves, right?

35:33D.C. and New York. You know, at some point we do need actual tax revenue from corporations. And the biggest ones have been very good at playing states off against each other. So as a whole, there's something about this subsidies that bothers me because eventually what you have is corporations who now have the lowest tax burden they've had since 1938. I don't know how to solve it. Competition interstate is actually good on a lot of ways. In this specific instance, given the atmospherics, given what's happening to L.A., this is an easy one. It's a great idea. Just explain what they are for people who don't understand what they do.

36:08Because, you know, this race to the bottom idea is important because people want, like Texas wants to cut taxes to bring people there, etc. And it often can be a race to the bottom. Explain why they're good. Well, if you're producing a movie, if you produce it, what they're basically saying is, you know, Canada has a big tax subsidy. They say if you produce your film here because of the jobs, whether it's catering or makeup artists or editors or the people who rent the vans and the trucks and the cameras, it'll inspire enough economic activity that what we'll do is we'll give you a credit. If you spend$30 million on a film, we'll give you, when you qualify, and the majority of the filming and post-production, whatever is done here, we'll give you a$3 million credit.

36:50And that may not sound like a lot, but if you can reduce your exposure by 10, 15, or 20%, it dictates where you're going to film. And Atlanta's been very aggressive about this. Vancouver. Vancouver. Canada's been very aggressive. And the U.S. or California had a smallish kind of underfunded credit. it. And basically what he's done is he supersized it. And the analysis is really powerful that basically justifies why you would do this. For every tax credit dollar allocated, California benefited from at least$24 in economic output,$16 in gross domestic product, $8.60 in wages, and$1.07 in state and local tax revenues.

37:32So this is actually, from a tax standpoint, it's tax neutral while inspiring a lot of economic activity. And especially in LA. Where they have the stuff. Yeah. It's a really good idea to strategically because the quality of talent in LA is just superior to any region in the world around this stuff. People dream when really talented creatives or people want to be in the movie business, when they come out of, you know, they're the star of the drama club or they're good at building sets and they come out of high school or college, if this is their dream, they get on a bus or a plane for LA. So it's such a big part of LA's identity.

38:11And if you can offer, you don't even have to be less just as long as you're competitive. A lot of people are going to choose to shoot in LA because the talent pool is so deep. So this is given the reality that there are other states and countries offering tax credits and the fact that production by some estimates is down something like 30 or 40 percent in LA. This was absolutely the right move at the right time. Yeah, and they have all those studios. I did, you and I have both done productions there, and they're just so superb, the people that work there, whether you're on something like Bill Maher or I was recently on a TV show.

38:46It's just so good. They're so good, from even down to like the craft table. 100%. And I have done it in other places. It's not the same as Los Angeles. It just is in our California. So they should. They should own it. They should keep it. But although I have to say, you know, the L Word was done up in Vancouver and I used to visit my friends up there who are doing the L Word. And it was they also had a really tight day. I think Jennifer Beals lived there or maybe she still does. It was really a great place to film and a great place to live for a lot of those people. So there's tons of TV shows in Vancouver and Atlanta.

39:18So anyway, good for Gravin Newsome. In any case, let's bring in our friend of Pivot.

39:29Daniel Labetzky is the founder of Kind Snacks and the newest permanent investor on Shark Tank. He's also the founder of the Builders Movement, a nonprofit initiative aiming at tackling polarization worldwide. Welcome, Daniel. Thank you, Cara. Thank you, Scott. It's so nice to see you both. Good to see you. Right. So I just want to say, just for disclosure, I was on one of his first calls, And me and Karl Rove, a person I never thought I wanted to talk to ever, let alone agree with, had a really interesting discussion, which was surprising for me. Anyway, we'll talk about it in a minute. But for people who might not know you only from Kind Snacks and Shark Tank, explain what the Builders Movement is and what it actually does.

40:14The builders movement recognizes that 87 % of Americans are fed up with all this hyper-partisan tribal division. And we want to transform this us versus them mentality with a problem-solving mindset and toolkit. And we have analyzed over the last 10 years the five or six forces that are contributing to toxic polarization. and to try to counteract them in education, civics, and the media with our own mousetraps that are in the process of being built, including the Builders Power Rankings that you just participated in. And we're grateful that you agreed to go on with Karl Rove and Andrew Young. So you've sort of gamified this recently by launching these power rankings, which I said I participated in.

41:07Talk about how the rankings work and hold politicians accountable. So our insight is that all of us are really, really exhausted with just being used by scandal and politicians to raise money and to divide rather than solve problems. And so instead of voting just purely based on whether somebody has a D or an R or we are trying to get people to study, are they actual builders or dividers? Are they helping unite and bring light and solve problems together? They're dividing, demolishing, and destroying. And we used, we partnered with the Polarization Research Lab to use AI to scour all resources on the internet and elsewhere every week to try to see whether people are actually introducing bipartisan legislation, whether they're actually speaking on the issue substantively, or whether They're just trying to set out fires to destroy one another and criticize one another.

42:09And to be transparent, it's not perfectly designed yet because sometimes people are appearing, at least from my perspective, a little bit poorer because they were tough. But maybe they were being tough responding to somebody that had attacked them. Right, because they're persistent and pernicious haters. But the goal right now, we launched within three, four months the minimum viable product, lowercase MVP. We hope that over the coming years, it'll become the most valuable player and it'll become the source for people to go to builders power rankings for them to understand whether somebody is being a builder and they get a from from AI, they get a score, a blend score based on whether they're introducing bipartisan legislation, solving problems, being constructive or whether they're dividing.

42:55And then, at least for this round, every week we bring in panelists across the spectrum of politics to criticize the rankings and to have a nuanced conversation. And we've had over a quarter million people that in the last two, three weeks have joined and learned a little bit more. And we hope to do a better job of getting people to think through those issues. Okay, Scott? It's always good to see you, Daniel. Daniel, so I'm wondering, so similar to how there are rankings from Democratic and Republican institutions kind of giving them a score in different special interest groups, whether it's the NRA or Planned Parenthood, they put out ratings or rankings.

43:35This seems like it's another rating that's basically going to say how bipartisan or how moderate you are. Is that accurate? it? That's literally the aspiration is for people to replace those hyper-partisan scoring things with an all-inclusive builders ranking. And Cara criticized appropriately when she was on the panel that we didn't have one for independence. Today, we rank Republicans and Democrats and for both the five top builders and the five bottom dividers. And it's a very hyper-non-partisan by structure. We cannot make it partisan because we're criticizing dividers and praising builders from both parties.

44:15As an aspiration, we hope to also do that for independence and to try to introduce more and more independence. One of the biggest problems with our system is that the system's arrayed against independence, against its foreign comments. One of the problems we have is only 13 % support Congress. There's 13 % for Congress, but 90 % of Congress members get reelected. And it's because of gerrymandering and all these systems that both the Republicans and the Democrats create in the system to try to divide the spoils and stay in power. And this is why people are so dissatisfied because we keep seeing that the choices that were being presented are really, really inferior as a result of the duopoly that creates so much stagnation.

45:02And we hope to introduce a system where we're going to hold accountable and not just say, oh, just because I'm a Republican or a Democrat, I'm going to blindly vote for my no. Have they been builders? Have they been actually solving problems for my community? Are they actually addressing what we need? Or they're just, right now we have a big incentive for, like Kara said, for the Marjorie Taylor Greens or AOCs of the world to be— Oh, I'm sorry, Daniel. You cannot put them in the same. I'm sorry. You simply cannot. How about Rashida Tlaib and Marjorie Taylor Greene? Nobody is like Marjorie Taylor Greene, Daniel.

45:37See, this was my problem with this whole thing, is there are certain people who are pernicious haters that are gaming everybody else. But go ahead. Karen, what's interesting to me from the last 10 years of doing this work is that I have the identical conversations with both sides. And when I say this, they say, Daniel, come on, nobody's as bad as the squad. Like, you know what? What's interesting also is when you talk to the media and you say, guys, you're really only covering the dividers and you're not covering the builders. And they're like, no, we're doing our job. We're doing our job. That's not true.

46:11They're not doing their job. Because guess who covers Marjorie Taylor Greene? The New York Times. Guess who covers the squad? Wall Street Journal. Guess how much coverage does the Wall Street Journal or Fox News give to Marjorie Taylor Greene? Zero. She is not in the media on the right wing. The right wing does not - The journal has. The journal certainly has. Barely, barely. If you look, we did a study last year called Change the Coverage, and it was fascinating. The media that leans Democrat covers all the crazies from the right wing. The media planning is right, covers all the ones on the left.

46:44I utterly understand that. My mother didn't know about Arnold Palmer when I said about the Arnold Palmer comment about Trump because she watches Fox News. She's like, what? What did he say? Exactly. Oh, no. It was fascinating. I'm like, apparently he has a big schlong, but let's go. But you've called yourself a moderate. Where do moderates fit into the initiative, especially in the current political moment? I think we can all agree last night was really a terrible situation. And for people who don't know, you're the son of Sonia and Roman Lubecki, and they're a Holocaust survivor and a Lithuanian Ashkenazi Jew.

47:20You also grew up in Mexico City, correct? Is that correct? And you moved as a teenager. My father was born in Riga, Latvia and survived. The Holocaust was liberated by American soldiers. When he was, after being in a hospital and as a refugee for a year, he then immigrated to Mexico where he met my mom. My mom was born in a small town in Mexico. Her parents had immigrated a generation before also from Eastern Europe. And I immigrated to the United States when I was 16. A teenager. So you're aware of all these. I mean, you've lived all these issues and everything else. So talk about you being a moderate right now and how you are trying to get to the center in some fashion.

48:06It makes it very difficult. I think a misunderstanding of people is that they think that moderates have to belong to— you can be a Democrat or Republican or an Independent and be a moderate. For us, we stop using the word moderate because it carries certain connotations that are not what we're doing. So we started to use the language of builders. But for us, a builder, a person that uses compassion, creativity, curiosity, and courage, they're the forces of a builder's mindset. And they apply not just in civil society. They apply when we're building KIND, the company, when you're building any bridges, any jobs, any social enterprise.

48:45If you have curiosity, you don't assume that you have all the answers. You have a little bit of humility to listen to the other side. You have compassion to understand where the other side is coming from or of a critical listener and a critical thinker. And then you have the courage to work across lines of difference and you have the creativity to think outside the box and come up with solutions. So those are the things we're trying to instill in society through education by replacing all these rigid ideologies that come from the extremes with actual tools for helping young students and all of us replace this increasing virginity from social media and other things with a little bit of a better ability to think through these issues.

49:28So, Daniel, in order to have a ranking that impacts people and says, assuming you're looking for kind of bridge builders or moderates, you have to have candidates that are at least somewhat viable as moderates. And I think it's a real challenge now because of gerrymandering. And essentially, there are no general elections anymore. It's all about the primary because of the way districts have been gerrymandered and because of the way the algorithms love polarized divisive rhetoric. Rick, does any of this matter if we don't get to like final five or rank choice voting? Because I'm worried that your rating will be just bad for everybody who we have ends up in the general, if you will.

50:11I think you're correct that the incentives matter and people, these politicians, they don't think to be leaders. They tend to be followers and they respond to those incentives. And I do think you're right that we need to have structural changes to reduce gerrymandering and increase participation in primaries and all the things you mentioned. And there are a lot of builders. There really are. We just don't hear about them because the media doesn't do a good job portraying them. And part of our job is to try to elevate them. So Senator John Ossoff, a Democrat from Georgia, appeared twice as a builder, represented Laura Chavez de Reimer, a Republican from Oregon.

50:51appeared twice as a builder. And these are people that are in battleground districts or states that have the strength to be builders. And it tends to be, like you would assume, Scott, that the most divisive voices come from districts that have been so germandered that the general election doesn't matter, that they just try to throw red meat at their primary voters. So Representative Lance Gooden, a Republican of Texas, was a divider two or three rounds. Representative Eric Swalwell, a Democrat of California. Representative Mary Miller, a Republican of Illinois. They kept coming up as people that were just engaged in personal attacks rather than constructive solutions.

51:43I think Scott thinks of himself a moderate, right, Scott? Yeah, I do. Right, yeah. Yeah. So there's a famous poem of Yeats, the center will not hold, right? And now we have the noisy among us are the ones that are getting the most attention. It's a famous poem, obviously. But are you concerned that polarization is going to get worse after the election? And which candidate would be worse given their records? I am absolutely terrified about our direction of our country either way. I'm frankly, nothing short of terrified. You know, Karen, Scott, I known you from the work I used to do in the Middle East for 25 years to build bridges between Israelis and Palestinians.

52:30And my assumption when I immigrated to the United States and I grew up and I went to law school and I did my work was that the way I was going to contribute was by bringing American values abroad and by trying to have respect, rule of law, kindness, civility, democracy, the values that we bring to others. And I worked for close to 30 years already helping Israelis and Palestinians, Jordanians, Egyptians, Turks trade with one another, build a movement to empower moderates. And if I have to score myself, obviously, I would fail. It's been a disaster, not only in the Middle East, but now all of this tribalization and division and divisiveness is being exported across the world.

53:15And foreign adversaries that are authoritarian rulers, whether it's in Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, are on vanguard. But we really, really need to take this very seriously. And I think that the only way we're going to change this is going back to what Scott was saying about structural changes and about demanding from both. You know, this is a duopoly. The Democratic and Republican parties are both broken. Think about what we have today. You have a presidential candidate from the right where 40 out of 44 of his self-selected cabinet members said, do not vote for this guy. And he, you know, prevents.

53:56They're not just saying do not vote. They're saying he's a fascist. And he sought to prevent the orderly transition of power leading up to January 6th. Like, I cannot support him. But in spite of that, it's like he should be easily defeated. You have an election that's going to be so, so tight. So you have to question and understand that there's problems on the left, too. Because if the Democrats are not able to feel the candidate that can easily defeat the person with a track record, the system is completely broken and I can walk through. Or people like autocrats, Daniel. I don't think so, Carol.

54:34I don't think so. I think that's too simplistic. I don't agree with you. I think they love them in certain places. They seem to like a big daddy, I guess. Before you go, let me ask you quickly about Shark Tank. The New York Times recently had a story that looked about how the show evolved over the years and proclaimed want to understand the U.S. economy. Watch Shark Tank. Tell me why you're doing this. What does it reveal about the economy and entrepreneurship? And I like some of the panelists. Others, I think you're as dumb as a box of hammers, but I think you're smart. So tell me why you're on it.

55:03First of all, every one of the... Kevin O 'Leary. But go ahead. Kevin O 'Leary is ridiculously smart. Like they process, they're witty and they process really fast and they all keep me on my toes. Part of the reason I'm on it... Daniel, Daniel, you're a much better entrepreneur than Kevin O 'Leary, but go ahead. Go ahead. You're very kind. Part of the reason I'm there is because it's really intellectually stimulating and challenging. Like Mark Cuban notices things two or three rounds before I do. Like he asks a question. I'm like, where is he going? Oh, my God, he was right. I learned so much from them.

55:36But the most important thing is the entrepreneurs that they come in. By the way, it takes a lot of guts to shop on that carpet. And then they tell you these incredible stories and provide incredible stories. And honestly, entrepreneurship is one of the last hopes for our nation and for the world. It's where you're building bridges, where you're thinking like a builder, when you're taking the risk to actually do something constructive, to build something good for society. And it's probably our biggest secret weapon as a country, and we need to support it and elevate it, and that's why we do that.

56:09Give us some behind the music here. What is the most surprising thing you found out about Shark Tank and don't have it be how smart they are, your other sharks? Give us some gossip. It's for me, Scott, when I first did the first season, Mark told me get over it because everything resets. And I didn't quite understand it. But what happens is you, this is your money and this is, and you don't know enough. You have to develop very quick pattern recognition. and then you decide that you want to go for a deal and then somebody throws you under the bus and you are authentically pissed off and you're like really upset.

56:50And then there's a break and by the next round with the next, because we film in two pods, so you film eight or 10 episodes in one day and after a 15, 20 minute break, you reset and these guys are like, they really, you really do get into it and then you need to reset and you form new alliances. And Daniel's still back in number one. Like, what did you do to me? Well, that was my first season. I was like upset for a few seconds. And now you have to just reset, reset, reset. And what's the most recent company you've invested in, Daniel, on Shark Tank? Well, we cannot share till they air. Most recent public one?

57:25Public one that people know about? There's a woman, there's two women that launched a company called Toasted. They're immigrants also from Venezuela, and they make frozen refrigerated Hispanic food that's delicious, like arepas, cachapas, like foods that for Hispanics will love them. But even, you know, Americans like them. It's kind of like a sandwich bread made of corn that tastes really, really good. And what's cool about them is they were, she had a baby the same day that her episode aired. and she was carrying the baby and watching the episode. Yeah, that was a great one. I love that one.

58:09I love Arepas too. I just want to tell a very brief story about Daniel of how I met him. He owned Code.com and I wanted to get it from him because we ended up with Code.net. I own the Code.com. The Code.com and I wanted it for our new site. And he called me back and he said, if you could change your conference to a conference about peace, I will give it to you. And I was like, no fucking way, Daniel. And I never forget that. And he's like, yeah, we need peace. I'm like, we don't need peace, Daniel. I mean, give me the thing. I'll give you a million dollars. No, he wanted a conference. And even today, Daniel, I'm not going to do a conference about peace, but I appreciate I did show up at your thing.

58:51And Karl Rove and I did give you a hard time, which was fun to do together. But your next challenge is the challenge for society. It really is the question. Are we going to allow the center to not hold? And if we don't, every one of your listeners do something to become a builder and to try to solve their communities. It is going to catch up with us. It's going to get worse if we don't all take it upon ourselves to do something. Although that Karl, Roe, and I are the center now is really something frightening. Anyway, thank you so much, Daniel. And I really thought it was really enjoyable what you're doing.

59:24And I hope you really get them any more help you want about it. And Scott would be a really good advisor to that. Anyway, thank you so much, Daniel Libetsky. Thank you, Scott and Kara. It's nice to see you both. All right, Scott, isn't he? He's a lovely guy. I like to give him a hard time. So I met Daniel in 1999. We were in the same Global Leaders of Tomorrow, Davos. And he was the peace guy. He was just running around. He had all these weird little businesses bringing Palestinians and Israelis together. and he was starting all these ridiculous businesses that made no sense. And we're always like, but he was so likable and he had such a big, good heart.

1:00:02But I don't want to say he wasn't taken seriously, but he's always the guy like, peace is the answer, peace. And we're like, oh, Jesus Christ, it's the peace guy. When he wanted the website. And then he starts this company called Kind. He's like, showed up in my office and said, can you help me start this business? And I'm like, well, not really. I don't know much about the confection market. Anyways, fast forward like seven years later, he sold it for a billion dollars. the peace guy oh god and it literally there are few people you would be more happy if they make a billion dollars than daniel lebesky let's get him to help us buy the washington post he's a really he's like a big hearted lovely guy and the candy bars are delicious and that's what they are i'm sorry to tell you but that's candy bar there anyway they're fantastic um i eat one a week around something like that anyway scott let's go on a quick break we'll be back for wins and fails

1:00:59Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I sort of already mentioned mine. I'll start with my fail. My fail is the comedian mocking the Puerto Rican people in Eight Days Out. Distinctive, the racist undertones of it. it's just tactically really, really stupid to insult a community that comprises 400 ,000 voters in the ultimate swing state. It's just distinct of the underlying troublesome comments. It was just, it was a self-inflicted injury that the Trump campaign did not need at this moment. That's my fail. Just strategically, just could not have been more stupid. And my win, I thought Michelle Obama's comments telling men that they're essentially, they need to protect women.

1:01:46I just love the notion of associating manhood with a default setting around protection. I thought she was very powerful. And I hope that a lot of people, specifically men who are sort of on the couch and not thinking that some of the issues facing women right now don't affect them, they absolutely do. So I thought she was really powerful. I think that's probably my favorite speech of 2024. So anyways, my fail, this is unforced error on the Republicans' part, insulting a community that could play a huge part in the election. And my win is a very forceful former First Lady Michelle Obama. She really is impressive.

1:02:25She really truly is. I would say my fail is the Washington Post editorial leaders. Let me just be full disclosure, my wife works for the op-ed section. She's not involved in any of this and didn't have any idea about any of this. But there's two people who've just left the board. Molly Roberts, a young woman, she's resigned. And editorial board member David Hoffman is also resigning. Just for people who didn't know, Hoffman, legendary reporter, accepted the Pulitzer last week for a series on new technology and the tactics authoritarian regimes use to repress dissent in the digital age and how they can be fought.

1:03:00That was what he won his Pulitzer for, and he's just resigned from the editorial board of the Washington Post. David, you're a hero. I'm sorry, those pieces were wonderful. Molly is a young woman. It's a very white male board. Others are going to leave. It's largely a white male board. I'm sorry, that's what it is. And they pretend they have other people on it that aren't really serving. And so just a real fail from them. I can't say a lot because my wife works there. I wish she didn't. I'll be honest with you. And so she has lots of other opportunities and to have to work with these people is really something I'm not thrilled about, but it's her choice.

1:03:39In any case, my win is that there are, again, when I hear some voters speaking, not these terrible people at this Trump rally, I'm sorry. And I'll use the Hillary Clinton film. Some of these people are deplorable. They absolutely are. I've been listening to a lot of interviews with independent voters, and they're so smart. They really are. I know we make fun of people who haven't decided, et cetera, et cetera, but they are considering really important things for their families and their lives. And I get that the choice seems very stark here. And, you know, I think that they, I'm very heartened by listening to them, at least, because they're being considerate of things.

1:04:21And the second win is the New York Times editorial leader, Katie Kingsbury, who I haven't always gotten along with, I have to say. I think she's a tough nut, but she is posting their Kamala Harris endorsement and the video they made, which was really good. And actually, the editorial was quite good and well-argued and stuff like that. And she's dunking on them. And I just got to say, Katie, new respect, new respect for your—and it was a very well-written endorsement. And I would like to put an offer out to anyone at the LA Times or the Washington Post who has that endorsement of Kamala Harris.

1:04:59Please, please leak them to anybody, any reporter. And my lines are open if you have it. Please, I'd be happy to publish it. We'll be happy to read it here on Pivot. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. I know there's a lot of politics, but it's almost over. Well, not really. It'll probably keep going. And while we're at it, the results from last week's Threads poll are in in response to the question, who would make a better Halloween costume, Kara or Scott?

1:05:31I won by a landslide, winning with a whopping 72 % of the vote. And actually - Is that really a win? It is. Is that really a win? Actually, Kristen Soltis-Anderson and Lulu Garcia-Navarro on Chris Wallace Show dressed up as me. They put on glasses. They had leather. They had my hair and everything else. So they also dressed up as me. I agree. I'm the great winner. Does this convince you to change your costume to Kara Swisher? You're so much more accustomed. I look like a fish that swam too close to a reactor. You have big hair and sunglasses. You're a much better Halloween costume. But I need your help.

1:06:07What are you doing? It's kind of down to two costumes. One of them is not you. I'm either going to go as Richard Simmons. Right. I thought that was the choice. Okay. But the problem is I'm going to a party in London, which sucks because it's cold and the women don't dress as slutty, so it's not nearly as good. It's like a giant tease. I'm in Miami, but I can't be here for Halloween. Anyways. That would be perfect for Miami, but go ahead. Either Richard Simmons, but less powerful in London, or the breakdancer from the Australian breakdancing team. That's sort of common. Let's think a little harder.

1:06:37We got to do better? Yeah. I got to think. You got to do better? I got to think. I can't beat Deadpool. I was a huge fan of Deadpool. You could go with Arnold Palmer's penis.

1:06:46I have no response for that Golf clothes That's interesting Shade your beard Get real slick Yeah, you're not good at this I think you should go Anyways, if anyone has any ideas What I should go is Halloween Please send them in to Kara At voxmedia.com No I was at a Halloween store With the kids this weekend Because I have to go Every weekend right now And I found one costume I almost bought Which was a which was a payphone costume. I almost bought it and then I just didn't. You were going to go as a payphone? I was going to go as a payphone. I am a payphone. Get it? No one would recognize me. See?

1:07:23I'd blend in. They're like, what is that? Well, I'll think about it but I think you should go as Arnold Palmer's penis. That's my choice. Okay? That's interesting. Anyway, Scott, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday with more. Why don't you read us out? Today's show was produced by Laura Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mr. Saverio and Dan Shulon. Nishat Kuroa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

1:07:51You can subscribe to the magazine at n1mag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, have a great rest of the week.