TSA Chaos, Iran War Whiplash, and White House AI Plan

19:31Kara Swisher:And speedboats. You know, I had that interview with Tanner Warner recently where he talks about this. Aircraft carriers versus Zodiacs. Weeks ago, he's like, look, we're going to lose because this drone that costs nothing is going to, you know, is going to hurt our ships or these Zodiacs or whatever it happens to be. But they have the ability to do this. And I think they miscalculated just how many of them Iran had and just how strong the government was. I think they I think both Israel and the United States thought there'd be a popular uprising. There hasn't been. It certainly could happen, but it doesn't seem to be happening because, as Warner noted quite correctly, because he does his homework, this group of people has a grip on power there.

20:14Kara Swisher:A terrible group of people, but they are in control of this country in a way that Trump did not seem to understand, I guess. He didn't anticipate them attacking their neighbors. I think long term that's a strategic blunder on their part. But we used to worry that our aircraft carriers might be vulnerable to a Chinese hypersonic missile. It's not. They're vulnerable to hundreds of zodiacs going 30 miles an hour. Also, I mean, the reason why Ukraine has, despite unbelievable odds, been able to push back against a far superior military power and economy in Russia is the same reason that Iran is a greater threat and is able to create more disruption now than we had anticipated.

20:58And it all comes down to this one word, asymmetry. And then the second word is distraction. And that is, and Freed Zakaria did a fantastic piece on this. At the end of the 20th century, Britain was the world's dominant superpower, controlling about a quarter of the world's GDP, very similar to what we control. And they got bogged down in a series of conflicts overseas that took away their political, their economic, and their military focus and weakened them at home such that Germany could industrialize. And we might be falling into the same trap.

21:28Kara Swisher:A little group of Americans with just guns and some moxie. You know, that's the kind of thing. I mean, you have to sort of make these historical links because no one would have thought we would have beaten the British, right? But we had more at stake, right? Or we had more reasons and good reasons. But I think the problem is, again, Trump equals chaos. It's like it doesn't have a point. This airline thing doesn't have a point. It's going to hurt airlines. It's going to hurt customers. It's going to hurt travel and tourism. It's going to get people not to travel. It's going to hurt the economy in all manner of ways.

22:07Kara Swisher:And the same thing with this. It's going to hurt everybody. Now, interestingly, with this oil and gas price spikes, high prices are sparking more interest again in electric vehicles, which had seen a fall off. And searches for EV models are up quite a bit, 20 percent here in the U.S. since Iran conflict began. It's not just in the U.S. BYD dealerships across Asia are also seeing a spike in demand. It's a really interesting moment because for people who don't understand, let me tell you, range anxiety is really going away. It's in a way that's really significant. I'm sorry, you said range anxiety?

22:40Kara Swisher:Range anxiety. People worry about not being able, their cars will run out of electric, essentially. Oh, I see. And that doesn't exist now. I'm like, what can take away anxiety? I'm in. I tried Xanax last night and even that shit didn't work. No, just a plug. That's all you need is a plug. I have several of those, but I do that for fun. Yeah, exactly. Oh, wait. No, I'm sorry. Electric plug. Excuse me. Never mind. Really uncalled for. Anyway, electric vehicles are the one thing seeing a spike. This is not a surprise, but I have to say, for the first time in my, I have a gas car and an electric car.

23:13Kara Swisher:I'm thinking of just going all electric because I don't feel range. That's the issue is that I better have a car to get out of here in case of the apocalypse, essentially. Well, that might be. Okay. So that might be if there is a silver lining here over the medium and the long term. It does put a, you know,$60 a barrel oil does not help alternative energy. And I don't think this is going to be worth the price. I've been more optimistic about the potential outcomes of this, what should have been a conflict or a military operation on a war than most people. but hopefully this does give a renewed focus on, I mean, if China hadn't busted a very strong move to alternatives, they would be really fucked and they're still fucked, but it kind of renews the importance of being independent and not being subject to these choke points around energy.

24:05In a variety of ways, not just gas. And actually, did I tell you this? Your ex-wife, we spoke at, where was I? South by Southwest. And she ran after, of course, my favorite South by Southwest moment was after a talk. She came up and started answering questions for me as people were asking me questions. And by the way, her answers were pretty good. She's very smart. Anyways, this time, she ran after me as I was headed out because I was talking about Iran. Could be anything. And she showed me the site, and it shows at any given moment where Texans are getting their electricity for air conditioning and everything.

24:45Kara Swisher:Oh, yeah, she's on to the Texan thing. And at that moment, she pulled it up, 60 % of electricity was coming from wind power in Texas. And another 18 % was coming from solar. So Texas, which is supposed to be the epicenter of oil and gas and landmen, at that moment was getting 78 % of its energy is electricity from renewables. This is getting, it is so, the incompetence chickens are coming. to roost. Yeah. You know, the right wing is going, the right wing podcasters are really going after Hegseth and Trump on the war. And we need to be really thoughtful about this whole notion of asymmetric warfare.

25:28It just, you can't, and it's so interesting, they launch multiples of these drones and they change altitudes so the GPS locators trying to fight back, get confused. And then, but Ukraine is coming up with all sorts of defense drones. It's just going to open up an entirely different, I think you're going to see massive, and you actually pointed this out, that Ukraine is going to, assuming we ever get to something resembling a sustainable peace that gives people the confidence to invest, you're going to see an unbelievable, I think, technology boom there around defense.

26:06Kara Swisher:I actually, if I were advising my son Alex, I'd go to Ukraine when this is all over and you will be a billionaire. Like it'll be, it's going to be so exciting there, I think. There's corruption issues there, very significant, including with Zelensky's government and stuff, especially with Zelensky's government. But yes, it's absolutely an opportunity. What's really interesting here is, again, all of this has chaos attached to it and we do not need more chaos. Anyway, and by the way, on our 250th birthday coming up, guess who did that kind of military tactics? The U.S. revolutionaries in order to meet the very much more organized and much more, at the time, militarily superior British.

26:49Kara Swisher:Anyway. But we just hid behind trees. We refused to march in a straight line. No, we didn't do marches. We didn't move in fast. And have bright red coats that were great targets at dusk and light. Yeah, yeah. So funny. You're in my algorithm. I got served that great tomahawk scene of Mel Gibson with him and his kids killing about 90. Yeah. I can't stand Mel Gibson as Mel Gibson, but I love all his movies. Oh, he's a fantastic actor. I know, but he's a terrible person. I do. I love all those movies. I hate that I love them, but I love them. Oh, he's a fantastic actor. Anyway, that's the patriot you're talking about.

27:23Kara Swisher:Yeah. That's the patriot, yeah. Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Elon loses in court.

27:30Kara Swisher:The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. At Blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50 ,000 five-star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals. Free samples. Zero pressure. Right now, get up to 45 % off with minimum purchase. Plus, get a free professional measure at Blinds.com. Rules and restrictions apply. Tachovus is the go-to for premium, handcrafted Western boots.

28:05Stop by any store location for a warm welcome, a cold drink in hand, and a truly one-of-a-kind shopping experience. Let our friendly staff help you find your new go-to boots, whether your first pair or your 50th.

28:19Kara Swisher:Finish things off with a complimentary boot brand to make them extra special. Come for the boots. Stay for the good times. to Covis Forever West.

28:32Spring Fest is heating up at Lowe's, and for a limited time, we have the extra big deals you need to impress guests. Get your outdoor space ready and save$50 on the Select Cobalt 24-volt blower kit, now$79. Plus, save$80 on the Char-Broil Performance 4-Burner Grill, now$199. It's springtime, and our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valid through 413. While supplies last, selection varies by location.

29:04Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back with more news. A jury found Elon Musk liable for misleading Twitter investors in the run-up to his purchase of the platform in 2022. Damages could reach up to$2.6 billion. Musk's legal team obviously plans on appealing the ruling. He also didn't have the worst of the things the jury didn't find around fraud and everything else. By the way, he's been very busy this week besides offering to pay TSA. He's busy. He's got to shut up. I felt like that this week. He's busy keeping his hands in politics. He's been fixated on advocating for the passage of the Save America Act district voter ID bill, attacking Senate Majority Leader John Thune in the process, even though there's very little evidence.

29:44Kara Swisher:And by the way, The New York Times is just outright saying it, that there is any voter fraud in these areas or examples of it. he's still holding influence in Ukraine, by the way, in a positive way, having cut off Russian forces Starlink internet access last month. That's because they were getting them through the black market. The Russian forces using Starlink and he cut them off. Very good. Good job, Elon. Let's give you kudos for that. And over at his other business, Tesla semi trucks are finally here actually winning over truck drivers. This looks like a pretty good product. And Tesla says Tesla and SpaceX will launch TerraFab chip project in Austin because semiconductor manufacturers aren't making chips fast enough.

30:18Kara Swisher:That's not a surprise. I think everyone's doing that. Everyone's going to be doing that. But sort of it's a mixed bag heel. This jury trial, we'll see. He'll probably like exhaust them with appeal after appeal. But the jury didn't like what they heard, how he behaved. And he still has never paid for his misbehavior when it comes to the SEC and others. He tends to win or get off. Any thoughts on that or any of these topics? The definition of market manipulation is what he engaged in. If I were on a board and I went out and said falsely on Twitter that as a board member with insider information, we have funding secure to take this company private at a 40 % premium to market and the stock ran up.

30:57And then it ended up not to be true and all the people who bought those shares at an elevated price, I think I'd be in jail. I know I could never serve on the board of directors again. He got off on that. But here's the problem. He's going to be found, I think he's going to be found guilty. I think he's going to be fined$2 billion and it doesn't fucking matter. And the right answer is,

31:16Kara Swisher:He was found guilty, the damages in this. It's not guilty. But he'll appeal it, right? He's appealing. It's liable, not guilty. I think, excuse me, because it's a civil case, it's liable. Thank you. But here's the unfortunate thing. It doesn't fucking matter to him. And the point of a justice system is not only punishment, but it's to create incentives so people don't do things again. And not only criminally, but in civil litigation. and what we need to move to is what they're proposing with a wealth tax. And that is the whole point of a wealth tax is we're going to take a percentage of your wealth.

31:51Now, I'm against wealth tax tasks, not theoretically or philosophically, but practically they just don't work. But we need to move to some sort of proportionate civil liability fines, and that is the following. It's not a$2 billion fine. It should be 20 % of your net worth. And that is, if you commit this type of market manipulation where people lose faith in the markets, you don't own$2 billion. You owe 20 % of your net worth. Otherwise, what is the incentive not to do this again?

32:24Kara Swisher:Yeah. Right. And the same thing should happen when Meta is found guilty of creating addictive products, and so is Alphabet. That's the other case. It shouldn't be a billion dollar fine. It should be 10 percent of the market capitalization. Yeah, but it won't be. So what's good? Like here, the juries, it's interesting, it wasn't a judge trial. They decided to do a jury trial. So jurors do not like this guy, obviously. And he very clearly. He's not a sympathetic character. He's not a sympathetic character anymore. And he has gotten off on the pedo thing. He got off on the 420 thing. He got off on funding secure.

32:56Kara Swisher:He's gotten off over and over again. And he either wears people down or continues to attack, right? When he lost in court to the Center for Countering Digital Hate, he went back again or he pushed the government into bothering the person who founded it. I mean, this is the thing is he just keeps on coming. And like this fixation on the SAVE Act, which is evidence free that there's issues that they're trying to solve here. And at the same time, here he is doing this kind of cool technology in Ukraine or the truck or the, I don't know if he's going to be successful in the chip project, but I wish he would just do that.

33:35Kara Swisher:Right. You know what I mean? I mean, I was going to say it's called Pivot, but there could be a podcast. It's called Musk. He creates so much news. I mean, the guy is a big thinker and creates a lot of news. Look, I am super excited about the prospect. I'm anything that helps the brave people of Ukraine and their army defend against Russia and push back on it. I applaud. I applaud Elon for doing this. I'm thrilled about it. At the same time, it represents something much scarier. And that is there shouldn't be one individual that has the ability who is unelected and not subject to any sort of. What he feels like that day.

34:47So, Musk is changing the face of war, fortunately, for what I think is in the right direction. In this case. That's right. But should one man be able to accrete so much wealth and technical mastery that he or she can change the course of civilization and war? We keep talking about the wisdom of crowds. The ignorance of the individual is really frightening.

35:11Kara Swisher:Yeah. Oh, I like that. The ignorance of the individual. I just made that up. I think the molly's kicking in. See, you always do things like this. There you go. They're so smart. You're just being nice to me because we got in an argument this weekend. We did. But now that's done. The – it is – power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. And we should not have any individual that accretes so much wealth and power and technical sophistication that they can change the course of civilization. Now, some people would argue that Napoleon did that or Genghis Khan. But these people were incredibly – There's lots of people who've done that.

35:44But they were incredibly savvy and they worked their way through power structures. And ultimately, ultimately they fell. But I am uncomfortable with someone who is not elected by people, who's not accountable to anybody, who can pay his way out of or appeal his way out of any civil or possibly criminal. I mean, Christ, I hate to go here. The only person in prison from the Epstein files is a woman. And so it's okay. She should be there. I'm not arguing that. My belief is there should be other people in the cells next to her. Yes, one agrees.

36:19Kara Swisher:Yeah. It looks like they shut down a lot of these investigations right at the beginning of the Trump administration. But what happens if Musk all of a sudden decides, I'm pissed off with the left criticizing me, I'll show them, and he turns off Starlink in the middle of a ground offensive trying to push Russia, trying to push Ukraine out of, you know. Well, I'm just telling you, it's up to the lady in the bathroom with Molly. That's the problem. Seriously. But that kind of summarizes it, right? What does he feel like today? Did he have a nice night with his lady friend or did he have a bad fight with his children?

36:54So to a certain extent, Donald Trump in some ways, well, I mean, he's more dangerous. But what's more dangerous? Someone who commands the U.S. military? Oh, Musk. Musk. Or someone who commands two-thirds of the world's low-Earth satellites.

37:07Kara Swisher:Yeah. I say Musk. Musk fight. But it's not elected by the public. I mean, you can make the argument that, okay, we chose Trump. We didn't, but Congress, we also believe in three parts of government. Agreed. But he has more legitimacy. Correct. He has more legitimacy to make these type of decisions than Musk. Yes, but not this decision. When I first heard this, I'm like, oh, that's great. Good for him. I even put out a thread saying, well done, Elon Musk. And then I thought, fuck. Like, I want him to have to go to Senators Kelly, Klobuchar, the Joint Chiefs of Staff. What should I do? He may have.

37:46And Senator Warner. You think he might have?

37:48Kara Swisher:I don't know. I don't know. He might be coordinating. Who knows? That's a fair point. Maybe he's coordinating with our Joint Chiefs. I doubt it. Who knows? I suspect he's probably in. I mean, I don't know. When I got approached many years ago by that Ukrainian defense person asking if I could call him to turn to stop geofencing Crimea, I was astonished. And they were like, could you do that? I'm like, why is one person deciding this? Like, why isn't the guy? I remember that was the center of our beef. It was anyway. But also, I do want to say, I do think just calling balls and strikes, I think the Tesla semi truck is a winner.

38:26Kara Swisher:Looks great. I think it's a winner. It looks great. We give you that. It looks good. We'll see if they can roll it out, but it looks great. Agreed. Agreed. I was reading all about it this weekend. It looks fantastic. And not only that, but that is - He could make innovative things. That's where he should focus. The guy is clearly a genius, all right? Stop focusing on hate, Elon. Focus on the things you do that are good. And I've always thought that ground zero, the most obvious autonomous, something like 90 % of the damage done to our highways is trucks. And you talk about 10 p.m. to 4 a.m., it's not a great job.

39:02It's not a healthy job. So it's always felt like if there's ground zero for autonomous, I've always thought it's long-haul trucking. Yep.

39:10Kara Swisher:You should look at my interviews with the Aurora CEO, Chris Armisen, who started the Google. autonomy. Well, I was going to say how is Roradorn, but I don't want to go. Yeah, I don't. I'm just saying I love all these efforts and I'm thrilled that the truck looks like. I've never wanted to own a semi-truck or trailer. I'm like, I'd like one of those. You are absolutely not getting one. Never. I don't think you've ever driven me anywhere and I don't think you're ever going to. I'm a great driver. I grew up in California on a stick from the age of 15 and a half. I understand. I'm a great driver. You have never driven me in a car.

39:37What do you want? Two sensitive men so both people can be crying in the car and the parallel parking spot remains unparced? I have driven you.

39:43Kara Swisher:I have driven you in a car, but I don't think You are. You're a good driver. Yeah, I know. I don't think anyone would say that. I'm an angry driver. I try not to drive as much as I can. You had to sit on two phone books. That was a little unsettling. No, you didn't. You're a big guy. No, you did. To see over the steering wheel. I put you in a mini. I did. I put you in a mini. I sit way up front. So the Trump administration has also unveiled a national, speaking of control of tech monogarques over our government, unveiled the national AI framework to replace state-by-state rules with one federal standard.

40:12Kara Swisher:The framework proposes regulations like child safety rules and standards for energy use of data centers. It calls on Congress to address issues like intellectual property rights and preventing AI systems from being used to silence or censor. Lawful political expression of dissent. The administration says it wants to work with Congress to convert the framework into a bill in the coming months. I mean, I'm sorry. They are so everyone involved in the government right now is a tech industry shill. So this is not the states have passed, I think, 71 laws in 27 states. It is chaotic at the same time the government has abrogated all power to these tech companies.

40:49Kara Swisher:So I don't I don't think any good will come of this. Your thoughts? There needs to be federal legislation. Absolutely. Because if California, in an attempt to maintain its economic growth, all of a sudden puts in place technologies that might inhibit the growth, such as, okay, you can't use AI for surveillance of Americans. I mean, the CIA has a rule. Essentially, one of the most covert organizations in the world, which I, by the way, think is the only organization in history that can keep a secret. They have a rule. you can't, they don't kill American citizens. There needs to be regulation and legislation around AI and it needs to be a thoughtful discussion.

41:34And then, but what I hate is just all of a sudden a race to the bottom around AI where, okay, Texas says it's a free for all and you can use it to surveil Americans or create. I get it.

41:45Kara Swisher:It's just our government has not, our federal government never made social media laws. They never made privacy laws. Well, they're not making laws. What they're saying is have at it. They're not doing this to create better laws. They're doing it to get everyone out of tech's way. To delay and obfuscate any attempt to regulate. Yeah, I think that's right. If they were doing it, they would get together with Congress and do actual laws that are in everybody's interests. And that tech would be a voice of many in this thing. They don't want to, let me say, this is yet another attempt to abrogate. States are the only groups that are doing something somewhat effective, and they shouldn't be doing it.

42:23Kara Swisher:But they have to because the federal government has lost all responsibility for regulating what is a very frightening situation, that we should all be cooperating, not just in this country, but globally around AI safety, where it's going, who's, you know, on jobs, on child safety, on cancer research, on everything. There should be rules about surveilling citizens, et cetera, et cetera. This is not an administration I trust to do it because everyone in a position of power has someone else behind them who is in tech, and they are all grabbing for things. Well, in 2025, seven of the largest AI companies in America, Snap, X, OpenAI, ByteDance, Microsoft, Alphabet, and Meta, spent over$50 million on federal lobbying.

43:06By the way, best ROI in history is not AI or CapEx. It's lobbying. And in 2025, hired 87 lobbyists, roughly one of every six members of Congress. OpenAI has ramped up its lobbying spend nearly 70 % from last year. What's interesting is one of the greatest brand declines in history over the shortest period of time, AI. Think about how excited we were about AI just 24 months ago. One, a Pew Research poll found that Americans are five times more concerned than excited about AI. There are roughly double the amount of Americans who think AI's effect on society will be negative than there are people who think it'll be positive.

43:52Kara Swisher:Worse brand destruction. You're right. The brand erosion in AI is historic. Two-thirds of Americans think that AI will eliminate more jobs than it creates, and less than a third of Americans trust AI. and three quarters of Americans think AI poses a threat to humanity. Existential threat. Let me just say, ahead of the midterm, Silicon Valley has poured$100 million into a network of PACs and organizations to advocate for these strict AI regulations. And a report from Public Citizen found that one in four federal lobbyists now work in AI. Think about it. Why do you think they're working there, kids?

44:28Kara Swisher:They're not to help you. They're there to help them. And they have the White House captive. In any case, it would be a great idea to do some bills, but not with this administration, not in its current form. But this is the opening for a Democrat. I spoke to someone this morning running for president. And no one on the Democratic side has been able to say we need federal AI regulation focused on these three things. No one has been able to articulate what is needed around regulation and AI. And it is a real opening for one of them because it's the technology of the day. it has got, it's created a huge amount of anxiety and yet no one has been able to articulate a vision for what sensible regulation that protects Americans while, while ensuring that our thoroughbreds continue to run because there really is economic value and we don't want to hamstring our best and brightest such that China gets out ahead.

45:20There are real concerns on both sides, but someone needs to thread the needle here and come out and say AI regulation at a federal legislation focused on the following, you know, three things. It's a big opening for a Democrat.

45:32Kara Swisher:It is. You know, I just did a two-hour interview with Tristan Harris. He said the exact same thing. It's a big opening for someone. Tristan. Tristan. He's so good. You know, we've been talking for 10 years about this issue. Yeah. Now, he was early to the I Hate Big Tech game. He's very compelling, too. No, he doesn't hate it. You are incorrect. He does not. He's like Kara Swisher. He does not hate it. He doesn't like what they're doing. They've made a mess of our house. That's I feel shamed. I feel shamed. There's a great new documentary coming on called Apocaloptimist. It's AI apocal. He's both positive and negative about it.

46:04Apocaloptimist?

46:06Kara Swisher:Apocaloptimist. It's called the AI dog. Isn't that a creature that lives at 30 ,000 feet below the surface? It's an apocaloptimist. It's sperm whales eat or something? No, it lives in the bathroom with the woman who has molly. Apocaloptimist. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. I think I have a bup plug named the apocaloptimist. Apocaloptimist. Apocaloptimist. All right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Nexstar is approved to merge with rival Tegna.

46:29Hi, I'm Brene Brown. And I'm Adam Grant. And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop. A podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling, and questioning. It's going to be fun. We rarely agree. But we almost never disagree. And we're always learning. That's true. You can subscribe to the Curiosity Shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday. For the last 10 years, everything in American politics has basically revolved around one man. And as a political journalist who came of age during Donald Trump's rise in 2016, I've had a front row seat.

47:08Kara Swisher:I am officially running for president of the United States. It's going to be only America first. America first. Thousands of supporters of President Trump stormed the U.S. Capitol building. But is it possible to talk about politics without talking about Donald Trump? That's the question I'm going to ask in our new show from Vox. The idea of like a post-Trump or not exactly Trump-focused show can exist because he's not really driving any agenda items. It really does feel like so reactive. You know, I think this Iran thing is also going to cause a big split in the GOP. So far, it doesn't among like people who say they're MAGA voters are still with Trump.

47:48But like for the first time, you see on a major issue, open opposition from the start of this war. I'm Estet Herndon and welcome to America Actually.

48:03Kara Swisher:Scott, we're back with more news. Broadcast station owner Nexstar will merge with rival Tegna after the FCC signed off on the$6.2 billion acquisition, creating the largest operator of TV stations in the country. This is unprecedented. The commission has waived the rule that bars a single company from owning TV stations that reach over 39 percent of the U.S. households. Guess what? The new entity is allowing Nexstar to own 60 percent, near doubling. The combined company would own over 250 stations, reaching over half of American households. Eight states have filed emergency motions to stop the merger.

48:37Kara Swisher:As usual, Brendan Carr, the bureaucratic toady, just waved it right through because it's their conservative. And they were thanking President Trump. They're the people behind the Kimmel mask. They're one of the people. Conservatives are actually split on the issue. Some thinking it's a great thing because it helps the conservative side, their team. The other people feel as correctly. You wouldn't like it if a bunch of liberals owned these like 60 percent of the stations. That said, mainstream media has leaned. Well, it's leaned middle left, middle left kind of things. Just what do you think about this?

49:09Kara Swisher:I mean, obviously, this is open. This is something. This is Rupert Murdoch's wet dream from many years ago, the ability to own things across the country. Although, who's watching local news at the same time? I'll tell you who's watching local news. Really old people. Yeah, exactly. I could program local news. It's called What Stupid People Did Today. Two people were mugged in a parking lot at 4 a.m. this morning. Or the it could happen to you story. And the weather. Killer bees. It could happen to you. It could happen to you. Yeah, and the weather. Mold on your penis. Yes, it could happen to you.

49:38Are you losing hair because of your drinking water? It could happen to you. I'm torn because the idea of any one entity controlling that much information flow to a populace that disproportionately votes, it feels uncomfortable. At the same time, these companies are in structural decline, and the only way they survive is through consolidation and cost cutting. I was on the board. It's now time for the latest episode of Scott's Weak Flexes. I was on the board of a company that was a Yellow Pages company. And it's one of my best investments because typically these companies, we know local stations are fucked, but they're not going to go out of business as quickly as people think.

50:25So for example, in 1999, you could buy a Blockbuster. Everyone knew Blockbuster was going away. But in 1999, you could buy a Blockbuster franchise for two times cash flow. And they did go away, but they went away 13 years later. I mean, you four or six extra money. There's a lot of money. So you can buy these things at pretty distressed prices, and then you need to consolidate the back end. Back to the Yellow Pages company. We knew that the Yellow Pages business was going to go away. You could buy these things at two times cash flow. So we would go buy every regional Yellow Pages company, quite frankly, consolidate the back end, which is Latin for lay off everyone one by the salespeople.

50:59And then we went and bought the biggest Yellow Pages company in Canada, and then the biggest one in Australia. And it's a great business. Now, to a certain extent, is that bad? Is that too much concentration of power? So these companies are melting ice cubes. They need to consolidate.

51:15Kara Swisher:Well, they were when the Yellow Pages mattered, but go ahead, which they did, kids. But it's the same thing here. These businesses are going out of business slowly. And so I'm of two minds. I don't trust this FTC to make these decisions. I'd want to see an economist say - I'm sorry, the FCC. I'd want to see an economist issue or thoughtful people say that the risk of job destruction, the risk of having the Capitol to do anything regarding investigative journalism at City Hall or the local, you know, local courthouse, that these guys need to consolidate. Having said that, this level of concentration feels pretty unhealthy.

51:56Kara Swisher:Yeah, 60 is a lot. I think you're right. You know, when we were on, when we were on the tour and, you know, or I was on one thing and everyone was asking me about CBS and I'm like, show of hands of who's watching it. And it was like, no relevant. And I thought, so we're worried about one irritating person at a station that's, I mean, a network that's declining faster than all the others, by the way. The other two are doing okay. They're double in size, essentially. I was like, so no one's watching it. And even the strongest player is slowly dying, you know, who's doing okay. And they definitely throw off a lot of money, right?

52:33Kara Swisher:Like your Yellow Pages thing did. Right now they throw off a lot of money. So, 2017 % of America watched the Academy Awards. Do you know what percentage watched last week? It went down, right? Like three. 5%. Yeah. Yeah. That's the thing. And so, you're sort of sitting there. You're like, okay, it's really irritating and grotesque. And at the same time of this consolidation and these people that are doing, you know, performative, you know, blowjobs to Donald Trump, which they were, you know, around Kimmel and everything else. There's no such thing as a performative blowjob. Well, okay. That's an oxymoron.

53:02I don't know.

53:03Kara Swisher:I have never done one. I'm not going to go into the whole situation. I'm not going to touch that. Don't touch it. I finally have a filter that says you should say nothing, Scott. Let me say I haven't. You should say nothing. I have had sex with a man, but I have not done a blowjob. Anyway, thank you for that information because that's gross. Well, you know Taylor Swift writes all these songs about men breaking up with her, but she's never written a song about blowjobs. Connect the dots. Connect the dots. Okay. All right. In any case, I had the most interesting— Anyway, I'm not going to go into it.

53:34god is this shell egg or are you actually saying no no i just was i have a whole gay taylor thing called my gail gailar play Spotify anyway whatever what were we talking about my mind's a blank now

53:46Kara Swisher:listen to cornelia street is all i can tell you to everybody um so let me get what am i getting back on track i don't i don't think it matters and yet it does because these they do have an impact on a certain population and watching someone like my mom or other people get twisted by propaganda on, say, a Fox News, it does actually matter, right? It's really bad information. That said, I don't think most of these local stations, except for a very small few, do journalism anymore. So they matter in local politics. That's right. But they don't do much journalism. And I don't think they matter much.

54:21Hearst did this genius move and it went about all the local news stations and swing districts because basically the dirty secret of specialty retail is that for 45 weeks a year, it loses money. And then for seven weeks, it just breaks in a shit ton of money, basically between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The dirty secret of these local news stations in these swing districts is they lose money for 22 months. And then for two months, they quintuple their ad rates as so-and-so overspends trying to, you know, trying to be the local representative.

54:50Kara Swisher:Yeah, that's where it hurts. But do you know the average age of a Fox viewer? the average. 69, 70. That's exactly right. I think that's young. So that means that if a 40-year-old accidentally turns on Fox, a 97-year-old is also watching. Do you know what the average age of a local TV news viewer? 70, 80. Dead. They're dead, Cara. Anyway. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

55:23Kara Swisher:There's nothing like your first Mac. Here's what people online are sharing. At Dr. Rain says, everything is just so smooth and fast, I still can't get over it. Sinking stuff between my phone and this is just chef's kiss. At Mr. Incredible 488 says, Apple Silicon basically cures low battery trauma. That's how they felt with their first Mac. How will you? Introducing the all-new MacBook Neo. An amazing Mac at a surprising price. Find out more on apple.com slash Mac. Hey, marketers, listen up. Before this, there was this. Our voice. It's how we shared knowledge, built communities. Well, guess what?

56:04Voice is back. That's why Spotify Advertising has published a new report, The Sound On Era. Because audio moves culture forward. And if your brand wants to be heard, you need a SoundOn strategy. Go to ads.spotify.com to download the SoundOn era and turn up the volume on your business.

56:27Kara Swisher:Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. May I go first? Of course. I'm going to do a win. Let me just tell you, Project Hail Mary just brought in$80 million to the box office. That's a record opening for Amazon. Did you see it? I did. I went on Friday night. I heard it's about friendship. I'm sorry to interrupt you. It's about a friendship between a man and rocks. It is an alien who looks like a pile of rocks. It is a wonderful movie. It is about science. It is fun. It is, it made me, it's infectiously delightful and it deserves, I can see why I did$80 million, the box offs. I saw it on IMAX film.

57:02Kara Swisher:You don't need to, really. There's some beautiful things in it and some beautiful photography, but you hardly, you could watch it. It's a wonderful, it feels like a little like E.T. a little bit. It's got, it just is a wonderful movie. Ryan Gosling is delightful. He's the kind, you need to see it because it's the kind of man you want to be. Not two people have said I'd love it. You would because he's the guy that you want to be. He's sort of a reluctant hero, of course. And at the same time, it's about ingeniousness. It's about, it's the same writer of The Martian, same book. And everyone, what's interesting, someone told me, people read Project Hail Mary.

57:38Kara Swisher:Someone who I didn't think read much read both The Martian and Project Helmer. It's a lot of plot, not great writing, but the movies become marvelous. I think I love The Martian. It's about sort of fix-it things. Everyone in it is great. This rock character that becomes his friend, they're trying to solve humanity's problems together. You start to really love this character. It's a really great character, which is voiced by a puppeteer, I think, a very well-known puppeteer. Amazing. Like, I can't believe, at first I was like, I'm going to look at a rock character this entire time, and it ended up being delightful.

58:12Kara Swisher:I got to say, it deserves, it did much better than people thought. Amazon, this is their first big hit that is an original, and congratulations to Amazon for this, I have to say. Wonderful movie. Again, Ryan Gosling can do anything. He can sing, he can dance, he's funny, he was great on SNL. Wonderful. What a movie star, but also totally approachable as a dude. That's why you'd like it. My fail, you know, there's so many obvious ones. I mean, more than nine months after its announcements, Trump mobile phone still hasn't launched. It never is going to launch, by the way. There are a bunch of grifters.

58:45Kara Swisher:But I think I think probably something that got a lot of press was President Trump's reaction to the death of Robert Mueller, former FBI director, special counsel and Bronze Star Marine veteran. He died this weekend at the age of 81. I had no idea he was sick. while former presidents Bush and Obama share their tributes to him. Trump went the other direction, posting, I'm glad he's dead. You know, then Scott Bessent, that little quizzling weakling, was like, oh, he was the victim here of Robert Mueller, and so he should be able to say that. But it does open, it is really shocking when everyone sort of gave the left a hard time for not being unhappy that Charlie Kirk had died.

59:24Kara Swisher:And by the way, it was a terrible and murderous way, and nobody should be celebrating that. This was just like very typical. And it sort of opens the door to when someday Trump sheds these mortar coils for anyone to say that. So it just was like, it's another gross, chaotic, mentally deranged madness of King George moment. That's I was like, are you can you just shut the fuck up and not give us your thoughts on every awful thing that crosses your your increasingly aging brain? There you go. I love those. But we're increasingly, it's like when you hang out, people begin to look like they're dogs.

1:00:01We're becoming the same person. My fail was the same thing, so I'll take the other side of it. But before we get to that, I want to just talk a little bit more about blowjobs. Do you think it should bother you if your spouse has given hundreds of blowjobs to random men? Or is my wife overreacting?

1:00:18Kara Swisher:Oh, my God. That's good. I bet you'd be good at giving blowjobs. Anyway. My win. I would think you'd be better than me at it. Go ahead. All right. Enough. Even I have limits. I knew that would stop you. And even I have limits. I knew it. Okay. So I don't know how to make a clean segue here. So my, we, we, uh, we, uh, talk a lot about what, talking about an aspirational, uh, vision for masculinity. and I think unfortunately it's been confused with volume dominance and attention and that's you know that's not strength Kara that's just insecurity with a ring light or a Twitter handle and if you want an actual template for masculinity you could do a lot worse than Robert Mueller and this was a guy, he was a Marine of Vietnam.

1:01:15By the way, he volunteered. He didn't avoid deferments, no bone spurs. Also in high school, captain of his lacrosse, hockey, and baseball team, an amazing physical athlete. Captain. All three teams decided he should be the leader of that team. Marine of Vietnam, where he earned a bronze star, went on to lead the FBI for over a decade, and then later in his career, he took on one of the most politically radioactive investigations in modern history. And how did he handle it? There was no three theatrics. There was no personal branding. There was no need to be at the center of the story. He just did the job.

1:01:59And before all of that, as I mentioned, a very serious athlete and a scholar went to Princeton. Bronze Star. And get this, married for over 60 years. Raising a family, including, I believe, two kids while building a life of service. You know, that's a decent outline for masculinity. Not performative outrage, no constant self-promotion, but discipline, restraint, and commitment, you know, to your work, your country, and your family. And his posture was simple. You know, service matters more than me. The work matters more than me. And I feel like with today who we should be looking to for role models and masculinity, that's what we've lost.

1:02:47We've started rewarding people or men for being loud instead of being reliable and for being visible instead of being credible or empathetic. and this guy was real strength. It's quiet. It's showing up. It's doing hard things and it's not making everything about you. And so when we talk about using masculinity as a code or a guide for young men, you know, if you're trying to figure this out, what it looks like, here's a filter. are you optimizing for attention or for service, right? Because one of them is more immediate, but the other compounds over a lifetime. And I found it so upsetting that this guy who's such an outstanding role model and such a fantastic example of what it means to be an American and what it means to be a man, that his family would have to endure that nonsense.

1:03:48Kara Swisher:So he'll be, He'll be buried. That was the story is Trump's reaction to him. He'll be laid to rest with full honors. And there's few people that deserve it more. Anyways, Captain Robert Mueller, United States Marine Corps, rest in peace. What a wonderful example he set for all Americans and especially young men. That's my win. That's it. That's all I got. You said the fail. Okay. All right. I have one more win. Scott and I did get in a tiff this weekend and we settled it. And I have to tell you, you acted like a man. I have to say. A lot of people wouldn't have called me back. We had a little tip.

1:04:25Kara Swisher:I was a little snarky. We got mad at each other. And I have to say, I said to my wife, I said, Scott, handle it like a real man. Like, really? We had a good talk. We worked it out. We'll always have little tips, not very many. But I have to say, you acted with great dignity and openness. I appreciate that, Kara. I was really very much happy with it, I have to say. That's nice. That makes me so good. You acted like a woman, really, is what you did. You're like Carrie Coon. Well, that's the left version of a man, just acting more like a woman. We should be on White Lotus. We know those people. They should make us...

1:04:59Kara Swisher:White Lotus, Tulum. Tulum, right. With Molly in the bathroom. Oh, my God. Finally, Kara takes Molly, and that's the plot. Oh, God. What happens from there. Someone's got to die, though. Who's going to die? Yeah, obviously you. Yeah, that's pretty obvious. Come on. Obviously. Anyway, and then I'll have to solve the mystery. As long as it involves performative blowjobs from someone, I'm willing to take the risk. Yeah, it's all the mystery. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to send a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.

1:05:30Kara Swisher:Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week and on with Kara Swisher, I spoke with experts about how the Trump administration is dramatically expanding the immigration detention system. I think it's really important to focus on things that people have lost a little attention to, especially this prison system we're building. Aaron Reikland-Milnack, lawyer and senior fellow at the American Immigration Council, says Stephen Miller won't stop pushing for more deportations, even if the focus has been off them of late. Let's listen to a clip. His goal is a million deportations a year. I don't think they're going to hit it, but they're going to try to spend every penny of that funding that they can in order to reach that goal.

1:06:05And that means more people caught up in this rapid system, more people held in detention, more people subject to awful conditions, and more people who see what's happening and say, I can't take it anymore. I just want to give up, even if I could have a chance to stay in this country because I don't want to spend another day in this hellhole.

1:06:23Kara Swisher:So anyway, let's just not lose focus on things. We tend to do that in this society right now. So I thought it was important to talk about the issue of these detentions. I'm glad you're doing that because one of the things I was thinking about is that so many really important issues, including incarceration in this country or in the United States, we're the most incarcerated country in the world. It bubbled up to be an issue where a lot of important people were talking about it and beginning to visit it and think thoughtfully about it. And it's been pushed down because we just have so much fucking nonsense crowding out of everything else.

1:06:55Kara Swisher:Right. That's the whole point. That's what they're doing. It's a flimflammer. And one of the things is it's easy when it's Minneapolis and we can see it. This stuff is hidden because they're behind. This is where they want it, the hiddenness of it. But it gets out. And so I thought it was important to keep focused on things like this, which is why I did the Epstein Survivors. I'm like, let's not forget. Let's not forget. Let's not forget. Anyway, it was a really good panel with a really good group of people. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

1:07:24Kara Swisher:We'll be back on Friday. Today's show was produced by Lara Neiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and Todd engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Miss Savera, and Dan Chalon. Nishat Kouroua's Vox Media was executive producer of podcasts. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you for listening to Pivot from York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back later this week for a breakdown of all things tech and business. Robert Swan Muller III, Captain, United States Marines, rest in peace.