Twitter’s Trump Warrant, and An Abortion Rights Win in Ohio with Co-Host Will Hurd

27:19And they keep doing this. What's within the GOP that will not stop in this? it's a real it's a suicide march in a lot of ways politically there's there's also an issue here about overreach for government like like you know people are getting frustrated with that people are getting frustrated whether book bannings or whether you're a republican governor in florida or a democratic governor in california telling businesses what they can and can't think or what they can or can't support you know this is people are getting frustrated uh by by that And so I think there's another vein there. And look, I think a lot of stuff I talk about, I talk about the vision of the Republican Party I want to see, the vision of the Republican Party that I subscribe to.

28:07And this issue about local control is something that Republicans have gotten really far away from. And I think when you look at some of the numbers and why these ballot initiatives fail, it's because there's a lot of people that are conservative leaning that it's like, hey, this is not the government's responsibility or role in here. So stay out of it. Right. Stay out of it. So if it's not a winning, abortion is not a winning issue for the GOP. It clearly isn't. They're taking a lot of lumps for it. Can the party realize that and pivot? Or are you captive of these of these much more, I would say, cruel people because of what the impact people aren't listening to voters, what voters say?

28:45There's not there's not one poll that says voters do not want some level of abortion rights. Look, I would say I think when a guy like Mike Pence, you know, is able to say, hey, 15 weeks makes sense. Right. And nobody's going to question Mike Pence's conservative evangelical roots. Right. And and when he can say that and that gets applause at a conservative crowd, I think, you know, maybe that isn't I don't know if I'd consider that a pivot. But I think that's a sign that there is, you know, that there is there's something potentially different or where we can where we can find some areas. So is that going to happen?

29:31You've got a very short amount of time. Look, I can't speak to that, right? Like the fact that I can tell you what I say and what I talk to people and people appreciate the perspective. And, you know, and so so can I, you know, what everybody else is going to be focused on doing? That's up to them. And, and, and where, where the broader party ends up on this issue? I don't know. And look, I, I always talk about like pro-life, right? Is you should be, you should care about like, like, Like, it's fine. I stopped talking about all the times I got booed. One of the first times I had a crowd really upset with me is because I said I was against the death penalty.

30:12And this was a Republican primary electorate. And I'm like, well, if you're pro-life, you should be pro-life all the way through, right? You should care about kids in cages, you know, on the border. Like, you should care about life at all times, right? And so for me, being ideologically consistent is one of the more important things. And that's how the party can continue to grow in larger growing groups of voters. Do you think this is something they'll pull because they seem to be doubling down on book bans, attacking trans people and strict, ridiculously cruel and strict abortion laws? Seems like a prescription for loss all over the place.

30:51And then you'll get exactly what you don't want. Sure. Look, here's it's real simple. OK, it's real simple. Donald Trump. And what I can make an argument is the authoritarian wing of the Republican Party is a loser. He hasn't won since 2016. We lost the House in 2018. And in 2020, we lost the Senate and the White House. The lesson of 2020 was real simple. Don't be a jerk and don't be a socialist. The reason Joe Biden won with absolutely no coattails was because people like Donald Trump's a jerk. But all this other stuff, what was the defund the police and defund ICE and all that kind of stuff, people are like, no, no, no, no.

31:39We're not having that. That's why people voted for Joe Biden for president and a Republican as their member of Congress. And so, yeah, I would agree with your concept. Guess what? But the way the Republican Party, and again, I know you like President Biden, but there's a lot of Democrats that don't. And there's a real opportunity. There's a real opportunity for a Republican. And everybody's like, well, Will, how do you have the Republican, how do you have the GOP be palatable to independents and conservative Democrats? Guess what? Don't be a jerk. Don't be a racist. Don't be a homophobe. Don't be a misogynist.

32:19Seems pretty hard. It seems pretty hard. I really do hope you're getting through. Listen, you'd be surprised who I vote for. I vote for a lot of different people. I do like reasonable people. I was very out front liking Biden when everyone else was in love with Beto, who I thought was a man boy, a silly man boy. But in any case, and some people too liberal in many ways. Anyway, well, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about the latest on the Trump indictments, how the company formerly known as Twitter got involved. We're going to keep calling it Twitter, by the way.

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34:46Well, we're back for our second big story, the latest news of former President Donald Trump's legal troubles, of which there's more coming up next week, apparently. First off, the government apparently obtained a search warrant this past January for data and records related to at real Donald Trump Twitter account. The Twitter was reportedly barred from even telling Trump about the warrant. The company missed the deadline to produce the records and ended up paying a$350 ,000 fine for that delay. That's not so weird to me. Twitter was always slow in terms of giving things over the government. But what do you think they were looking for, Will?

35:15Here are some theories someone sent me. One, to see he had secret accounts. Two, to see what devices he was posting from. Three, to see the DMs on main and secret accounts. And four, to see drafts of tweets or perhaps even tweets that Twitter refused to post or that he refused to post, which is interesting. How do you feel about this? Look, so I think this is the prosecutors trying to better understand and understand his intentions. My understanding of Donald Trump's habits is I don't think he's a big texter or emailer. You know, he would always print stuff out and, you know, write stuff with on with a Sharpie, you know.

35:54And so but those the draft texts and interest that may show of of his ability and how he was trying to coordinate. and it supports this narrative of intent, but also conspiracy, right? That, you know, it's funny, Bill Barr always reminds people, the conspiracy starts when you agree to do it. It's not that the fact that you were successful in it. So I think there will be some evidence to suggest that and coordination with some of those other groups, right? January 6th started with Donald Trump, you know, putting a tweet out. And so to me, all of these cases are serious. I've spent a little bit more time focusing on the classified document one, partly because I spent a decade as an undercover officer in the CIA overseas collecting intelligence.

36:46Yeah. So how do you look at that? You do not have. So there's two questions I would love Donald Trump to ask. And if I got on the debate stage, I would ask these questions with an opportunity. And if people want to hear me answer, ask these questions, heardforamerica.com, give at least$1. Why did he want to keep those documents? When he was told, you got classified stuff, you need to turn it back. Just turn it back. We would not be in this situation, in this case, if he'd give them back. Why was he holding them? Well, they're his. They're his. They're his beautiful paper. Look, you had your golf shirts in it.

37:26I get it. But there's another reason of those specific documents. Why do you give some back, but not all of them? Why were you holding those? Two, Secret Service's responsibility is to protect Donald Trump and his family. It is not to protect documents or classified information. That is Donald Trump's responsibility. So the fact that Donald Trump willingly knew he had classified documents in an unsecure environment, what did he do in order to protect access to them? to vet employees. And he's never explained. We all know that the Russians and the Russians and the Chinese are sophisticated and trying to get access to them.

38:11Whether they got access to them or not, I can't speak to that. I have not seen evidence that that was the case, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't potential. But explain, why did you have access to those? And to me, for someone to have things that talked about our capabilities with our overhead architecture, our satellites. Sure, because you were in the middle of that in your job. I was in the middle of it. Look, I'm the only person in this race that's been shot at, chased, tried to be blown up, be in places that were overrun by folks. And it's a slap in the face to the thousands of men and women who are putting themselves in harm's way every single day and every single night in order for us to be safe and to enjoy the freedoms that we enjoy.

38:57To me, that part is outrageous. Do you have an answer? Why do you think he did it? And why do you think he didn't protect them and handed it over to the pool guy, essentially? Right? The pool guy took it. I think he didn't protect him because he didn't value the importance of this. I think he was incapable of understanding the importance of the materials that he had. I just think he's deficient in that. Or he didn't care about putting people in danger. Yeah. And it's a hubris to think, oh, nothing's going to happen to this. But why he wanted them, I don't know. Look, he wanted them. And again, I'm not a Donald Trump psychologist.

39:48But we know the one example of when he shared some of the war plans. he wanted to brag. He wanted to brag. And so if he's bragging to the author of his staffer's biography, who else is he bragging to? And that's why he had them. He had them for props. And to me, that's just, that's unforgivable. That means you're unfit for office. And we should all be horrified, especially at a time when, and look, our adversaries are laughing, right? The Chinese government is laughing. The Russians are thankful that all of this stuff is happening. And then our allies are like, whew. Horrified, yeah. Horrified, right?

40:41And the Chinese were just hacking the Japanese too, speaking of which, it's everywhere, you know, it's everywhere. They're hacking the United States government, right? Look, you've seen the stats about the zero-day attacks that have happened in the last year. All of them, all the new ones were from the Chinese to the defense industrial base, right? Like, the Chinese, they're trying to surpass us as a global superpower. this is not my opinion it's what they say about themselves they're going to do that by being leader in a number of advanced technologies and they're showing a level of aggression at all levels from diplomacy to cyber attacks and and and we're and and we're having debates we're opening the door yeah i get it whether we should ban books or or have classified documents in your loo right yeah and the answer to both those questions is no let's get on to the next let's get on to the next topic.

41:30So let me say the indictments that besides this one are coming is there was nothing in Georgia, which is again, the fourth where the DA in Atlanta expected to present her findings from an investigation. Trump's alleged election interference. She does have tape of him saying it actually, which seems to be a problem for him. Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis is reportedly aiming for conspiracy and racketeering. They have a very broad racketeering laws in Georgia. Just reminder, there are three other criminal cases. As you said, the January 6th and 2020 election inquiry, the classified documents case.

41:58And I agree, it's incredibly, it's both depressing and heinous. And the Manhattan hush money case, which everyone's forgotten about at this point. The 86 % of Republicans in a CBS poll believe these indictments, investigators have political motives to disrupt Trump's campaign. I talked to Frank Luntz earlier in the week, and he's like, you know, obviously the polls go up when these things happen. And this fourth one, he said, will put him over the top. But it's putting over the top with people who are a small minority of people and not able to make the presidency. And perhaps you don't even want them to be president.

42:32So that's a good thing. Obviously, you don't. How positive is this for Trump and how ultimately negative is it? Because I think it's ultimately negative. So I think this, again, I'm not a lawyer, right? I think this Georgia case is one of the clearest issues because we have the call. We've all heard the phone call of Donald Trump asking a state employee to commit a crime that he knew was a crime, right? Like, like, that's pretty clear to me, right? So, here is where polling is a snapshot in time. it's a very narrow insight. And so, so would most Republicans be like Joe Biden and everybody associated with them hate Donald Trump?

43:30Yeah, of course. Right. Would they be like, there's some political activism here. I can understand why they say that, but is that going to translate 25 weeks from now into them voting for Donald Trump? Ultimately, what I think, And when you juxtapose national polling with some of the state polling, Donald Trump is probably going to get 30 % of the Republican primary voters, no matter what. Their rider dies. They're gone with him. They got the hats. They got the T-shirts. No matter what happens. They're like Taylor Swift fans, but really rancid. But go ahead. I don't know if she'd appreciate being compared.

44:12She would beat him in elections. Yeah, Barbie and T-Swift are keeping the economy going. That's right. One billion dollars, that's crazy. That's crazy. The feminists are keeping it. Girl power is keeping everyone going. So for me, this is what I always ask people. Let's do this thought experiment. Who's the independent or conservative Democrat that voted for Joe Biden in 2020? and then in 2024, it's like, you know what? Donald J. Trump's my guy. That doesn't exist. It doesn't exist, right? So all the polling that shows that Trump is tight. He's old, but I guess I can't. Yeah, I'm going to hold my nose for all that group of people, right?

44:59And so this is what I keep telling Republicans. If the GOP nominates Donald Trump as our nominee, We are willingly giving four more years to Joe Biden, right? Because there is no way. Oh, and by the way, right? And I don't mean this in a derogatory way. He literally campaigned from his basement, right? And he still beats you, right? Like, come on. And so anyway. You notice he's not saying much. He's biking around and sitting on the beach. And every time he says nothing, his polls go up. Biden said nothing. It makes no sense. And ultimately, I also think the path. So all of these court cases, no one is above the law.

45:46Right. And for those that want to criticize and bring up Hunter Biden, all that. So the person who's going to prosecute that case is someone who's been indicted like 90 times. Like that makes no sense if that's something you care about. So, and what I, the pathway is, there's a lot of Republicans that once we start getting into the winter, that people start paying attention to the election. We'll be like, oh dear. Are going to be like, yeah, I voted for Donald Trump twice, but he's got too much baggage and we need to look somewhere else. And then also the fact that Ron DeSantis has basically stumbled and is faltering.

46:26the there is if you're not donald trump if your name is not trump i think your chances are pretty much equal in in this in this in this republican primary of the group that's what you're hoping for yeah that's what you're hoping can i say very briefly because we've got to get going but why do you think de santis has stumbled so much i think as you know i think he's charmless you know do you remember when obama said hillary clinton was likable enough remember that which was worked it worked, no matter how you slice it. I think he's unlikable enough. I've always thought he's charmless and strange.

47:01That's a good title. That's a good title for his book. The wife, I would possibly take a look. The wife is charming, but not him. Look, so when you're more interested in fighting my friends in the LGBTQ community than you are Vladimir Putin, we got a problem. When you think Cinderella is a bigger national security threat than anything else, than a president storing documents in his bathroom, then we have a problem. And so there's no upside to slavery. If you want to come in and defend it and be like, I didn't write it. It's not my fault. It's not my fault. I didn't write it. That's not leadership.

47:44then change the phrase to be like, listen, that's not our, that was not our intention. I'm going to call everybody back. I'm going to call everybody back. Fix that, fix that wording. Right. It's, it's that, it's, it's that, it's that simple. Then you hire a guy, like a known neo-Nazi, or let me not be hyperbolic. I think he was like an anti-Semite, right. And that, that he knew that he like, he knew that in advance. Like, and then you hire, that. And then all the anti-LGBTQ stuff, that's called a pattern. And I think those are all the reasons that he's failing. Oh, and Republicans don't like authority trying to concentrate power in the hands of the few and telling businesses how they can and cannot think.

48:32Yeah. So that's it. So everybody's got a chance if Trump stumbles at some point or people or the Penny suddenly drops with everybody. Yeah, or it's taken, right? Like, and that's our thesis, right? I do think you're right. I think everyone has a chance. I think it'll be interesting to see who pulls forward. But I think you can't, I think Trump is going to stumble. I think he's going to stumble. Ultimately, he doesn't want to spend his life, the rest of his life in prison. So we'll see. To me, he's got to, this is my calculation, he's got to win, which he's not going to do unless something incredible happened.

49:04So he's got to win. He's got to hope a Republican who'll give him a pardon wins. which is not a certainty. There's pretty much, it's just Vivek and that guy, whatever he is, and DeSantis. Nobody else, everyone else is like, pardon, probably not. Or he's going to jail. Or he's going to jail. And it may be at Mar-a-Lago with a bracelet on his leg, but he's not going anywhere. It's not a great, he's not going to enjoy it. He could make a fake presidential office at Mar-a-Lago and pretend he's president the rest of his life. That's the best choice for him. Anyway, Will, We've got one more quick break.

49:38We'll be back for predictions. Do you have a good prediction? We'll see.

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51:44Okay, Will, let's hear a prediction. It can be on anything. It doesn't have to be political, but it certainly can be. Can I give three real quickly? Yes, sure. Go right ahead. Okay. pivot listeners put Will Hurd over the top of his$40 ,000 because they all went to HurdForAmerica.com and gave at least$1. That's prediction number one. Number two, the 2024 NBA champions are my San Antonio Spurs because of Wimby. And number three... Why is it sports with you people? Luntz was talking about the Orioles, but go ahead, move along, move along. That cat, that the Harvard professor that took all that metal out of the ocean because he thought it was going to prove extraterrestrial life, I think the final analysis is not going to be clear that that was some kind of...

52:39You don't believe in UFOs? I didn't say that. I just think those pebbles that he got out of the ocean are not going to be the definitive case that there's something else out there. Don't you think it's time for the aliens to show up now? just about now like okay that's enough human humanity we've been watching you and we're tired it's like well well my brother my brother my big brother is a big star trek fan and and i forget which star trek it was and they're talking about the history of the world and it was like there was world peace on earth when when aliens showed up that's right because That's right.

53:19We were all band together to hate something else. It's called First Contact. There was a whole movie about it. Great movie. Great movie. Yeah, First Contact. Arrival is another good one. We need a First Contact. Either it's got to be a simulation that we realize and it's over and some teenagers are getting sick of us, or aliens need to get here immediately. What would you say? If you're president, what would you say to the aliens if they showed up? What would you do your first message as president, President Wilhurst? I'd be like, let's work together. Let's find. I'm going to say what I always say.

53:50We can find way more to unite us than divide us. What if they want to eat us? What if they want to eat us? Well, then if they want to eat us, be like, you know, let's hope these— To serve man. It's a cookbook. I don't know if y 'all have nuclear weapons where you come from, but we can shoot ours into space. That was the plot of, like, I think Independence Day. I think that's what that happened. Anyway. What's your prediction? Yeah. I think the writers and Hollywood strikes are going to possibly go on to January 15th at least. I thought several people were thinking October 14th, maybe, but certainly not.

54:21Now that it's August, they're all on vacation. They all go on vacation. What's the specific date? How are you able to? Because they have to really, it really ruins next summer for them if they don't get working by January. I think everyone will feel the pressure by then. I think writers and actors will be out of work and they can only do so many cameos, the actors, which is what a lot of them are doing right now to make money. they can do ads and cameos pretty much or not very, I don't even think they can do ads so I think that's going to be, the financial pressure on writers and it's 100 days today I think it's a real and I think yelling at Bob Iger saying he makes too much money is just not going to work after a while ultimately it doesn't work so I think that's, they'll have to come to an agreement and I think the studios that's when the studios really have pressure because they're doing well, because they're saving money right now.

55:14It's good for their bottom line. And I think there's plenty of content. But if they really go to January, they'll have problems with summer kind of thing. So we'll see. That's when they'll push. What's your sports prediction? I don't have any. I don't watch sports, Will Herd. I'm the only lesbian in America who hates sports, which is the way it is. I'm sorry. I hate it. I have sporty sons. They both are very athletic. I have to go to all these events. And I hate every one of them. And if I look at my phone, my sons clock it and say, put down your phone. And so it's hell. And now my third son, who is only one and a half, seems to like sports, which is a real problem.

55:53So anyway, anyway, there I am. You do you. I do me. I really don't like sports. I don't even like Megan Rapinoe kicking. I like Megan Rapinoe, by the way, as opposed to. And by the way, Megan Rapinoe, good for you with an amazing career, even if you didn't make that last kick. Astonishing athlete. I still didn't watch it. It doesn't matter. Anyway, and she's a lesbian. You think I would, but I don't. In any case, there we have it. Will, thank you so much. I love people being on the debate stage. You're a highly intelligent person who should be talking about issues like AI and reasonability, I guess, being reasonable.

56:29And you're sort of the nicer Chris Christie, essentially. I think he's effective. I think it's effective. He keeps going. He's good. He's a former prosecutor, so he should be. I do think people need to be able to debate on the stage, especially the Republican Party, and bring people to their senses, because I do like divided government myself, and I like lots of points of view. So I really do hope you give him a dollar. I am going to go do that right now. You said$5. You said you'd give him$5. They give$1. You give$5. I give$5. I gave Christy$5. I'll give you$5. Do not make me give Vivek Ramaswamy anything.

57:05There's things I'd like to give him we're not supposed to say. Anyway, I will read us out. And thank you so much. And good luck with your campaign. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderdot engineered this episode. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business with some new fresh people, including Don Lemon is coming on next week. So that should be interesting. Thank you so much, Will. Thanks for coming.

57:37Thanks for having me on.

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