Chef vs. Robot

0:00This message comes from U.S. Bank. Simplify how you do business with Business Essentials, a powerful combination of no monthly maintenance fee checking and card payment processing. Deposit products are offered by U.S. Bank National Association. Member FDIC. This is Planet Money from NPR. A couple weeks ago, I met up with reporter Justin Cramon in Philadelphia's Chinatown. Hey, Justin. Hey, Erica. Good to see you. Justin covers the food scene in Philly sometimes, and there's something he wanted to show me. We walk past restaurants advertising hot pot, hand-drawn noodles, dim sum, and then stopped in front of what looks like a convenience store.

0:42Is this it? This is it. It has a sign that says Instafoods. We go in, and towards the back, we see a man. Kenny. Yep. Great to meet you. Kenny Poon is a co-owner of this place. He's been in the restaurant business for about 25 years, And he's just brought in an exciting new cook. He can make over 5 ,000 different dishes. 5 ,000? Yes. Wow. Kenny says his chef has great qualities that he really values. So far, he never came late, never called out for a sake. I asked him for overtime. He never said no to me. He works overtime? He works overtime. Does he never complain? Never complain. Kenny tells us the cook's name is Robbie.

1:23Can we actually, can we meet Robbie? Yeah. Oh yeah, come on. Wait, this is Robbie? That's Robbie right here. Yep. Robbie's a machine, not a human. The always-on-time, never-sick, never-talks-back employee is an automated walk. A robot chef. Hello and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Erica Barris. And I'm Justin Cramon. Robot chefs. They're here at White Castle, flipping your burgers, at Panda Express, stir-frying your vegetables. They're in restaurants all over the country. Today on the show, what do robot chefs mean for the restaurant industry? We find out from a leading economist how jobs might be lost and gained, or maybe just changed through automation.

2:09And then we see how it's playing out and plating out in real life. Also, how's the food? We pit a human chef against a robot in a taste test smackdown.

2:24This message comes from WTTW. Join Jeffrey Baer as he tells the story of how railroads shaped Chicago. Riding the Rails with Jeffrey Baer premieres April 13th at 7 p.m. on WTTW. Support for this podcast and the following message come from E-Trade from Morgan Stanley. Discover a wide range of investing choices and banking solutions all in one place. Plus, get up to$1 ,500 when you open a brokerage account with a qualifying deposit today. Learn more at etrade.com slash offer. Banking products and services are provided by Morgan Stanley Private Bank, National Association, member FDIC. Terms and other fees apply.

3:05Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley Smith Barney LLC, member SIPC. This message comes from Dell. Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments that matter. Like a big project that can't be interrupted by an update. With long-lasting battery life, you can stay focused on what matters. Built for you. Dell.com slash Dell PCs. This message comes from LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you wear many hats. You're the owner, the marketer, the seller, the hirer. With LinkedIn, you have the tools to help you boost your visibility, find prospective customers, and find the best team for your small business.

3:44all in one place. So while LinkedIn can't hang up all of your hats, it makes it easier to wear them all. Learn more at linkedin.com slash planet money show. Restaurants are the latest frontier for robots. Automated machines have gotten better and better. So today to test out the technology, we wanted to pit a robot against a human chef. And like any good SmackDown, we start by meeting the competitors. In one corner, we've got Robbie. Since Robbie's a robot and can't actually talk, Kenny helps us describe his star chef. It's about six feet tall and a couple feet wide, mostly metal, with a big LED screen across the top.

4:26And at the center of it all is this basket. That's where the cooking happens. It looked like a washing machine. And then inside this machine had all the ingredients in there already. The basket is essentially a wok. It heats up and spins in different tubes, squirt sauces, and seasoning as all the ingredients are tossed around. That's contestant number one, Robbie the Wokbot. For contestant number two, we go to a nearby restaurant called Ting Wang. It also serves Cantonese-style wok dishes. But at Ting Wang, humans do the cooking. When we get to the kitchen, we find about six people prepping vegetables and meat and steaming rice.

5:06In the center of it all is Judy Huang. I am basically the office person, the translator. If they need anything fixed, I hook them up with it. I have to schedule whatever that needs to be scheduled. So all the side jobs. You do everything. Other than the cooking part. Judy's the co-owner here at Ting Wong. We ask her to introduce us to Robbie's competitor.

5:33My name is Feng. Fang Huanqiang has been a chef for 13 years. He makes$35 an hour, and he's wearing his chef's hat and apron and standing over a well-seasoned wok that sits on an open flame. Chef Fang is not comfortable speaking English, so Judy helps translate. How many dishes can he make in, like, an hour?

5:57About 20 to 30. Oh, my goodness. That's a lot. So the chef, he actually went to competitions in China. Judy shows us a picture of Feng on a stage holding up a plaque. What is this competition? Like, what does all that say? It's a chef competition in the Guangdong province. He got first place. Wow. Okay, so that's contestant number two, an award-winning chef from Guangdong province with over a decade of experience. Chef Feng and Robbie are here for the chef versus robot smackdown. They're each going to make three dishes, Beef chow fun, fried rice, and wok stir-fried beef. And a judge will determine which one takes the crown.

6:38Now that we've met our chefs and laid out the rules, the smackdown begins.

6:47All right. Chef Fung gets to work on his first dish, beef chow fun, this rice noodle dish with meat and onions and vegetables. Judy makes a gesture for us to lean in and listen. What are we listening for? You know when you hear that sound, that crispy, oral sound? That's when they're preparing the wok. Chef Fung starts adding strips of beef to the wok, to the sizzling oil. You need it at extremely high temperature. Can you do it at home? No, you can't, pretty much. He drains the beef, adds vegetables, and starts tossing everything into the air. Flames around the wok rise up about two feet. It is very intense.

7:23The key to Cantonese wok cooking is something called wok hei. sometimes translated as breath of the wok. Think of it as this super high heat that kisses the food and imparts this special flavor, a bit of caramelization. The char of it is going to be different. The flavor of it, everything, the seasoning, and like you can taste that it's made by human versus the robot. Chef Fong tosses in some sauces and spices, gives it a couple more shakes, and spoons the finished dish onto a plate. Now it's time to go see what Robbie's been up to. Our robot competitor has also been working on the first dish, Beef Chow Fun.

8:01Where is the fire? Where is the flame? It's electric. So it's all electric. The wok is electric. There is no roaring fire. Instead, Robby has a touchscreen. Now, Robby isn't fully automated. It's only partially automated. And that touchscreen tells Kenny, the human prep cook, what to do, which ingredients to add to the hot spinning basket and when. So here comes Kenny. And he just threw in some onion. So you're still putting everything in manually. Oh, yeah. That's not that different from a walk, though. But now you don't have to stir a final walk. Whoa, it's rotating. It just turned up the other way around.

8:38The opening of the basket turns so the sauces can get squirted in. The drums spin some more, and then a timer runs out and the screen flashes. Kenny gets ready for the final step. So now he is tilting it down and scooping it into a silver mixing bowl. And I guess it's done. Whoa! Watching the robot engulfed in steam. That sound was Robbie auto-washing himself. Okay, one dish down. Both chefs get started on their next dishes.

9:15And while their walks are heating up, let's take a minute to talk about automation. Restaurants have been trying this for ages. It is ripe for automation because it's very labor intensive. On the other hand, some of the labor is very cheap, so it's not going to be that profitable unless the machines are really superb. We reached out to someone who has done a lot of work on automation and labor. My name is Daron Asamoglu. I am an institute professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. You're being very humble. Is that the Nobel Prize behind you? It might be, actually. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

9:52That's mine. You see, here is the secret. They also give you three fake ones. So I don't have the full gold one there. Now, he hasn't specifically studied the restaurant industry, but he's done some of the leading economic research on automation and how it affects the people who work in fields like manufacturing and office work. Daron and a co-author, Pascual Restrepo, did a big innovative thing in a study that was published recently. They actually quantified how many jobs automation added or subtracted in a bunch of local economies. They specifically chose industries that between 1990 and 2007 used a lot of automation, like car or electronics manufacturing.

10:33And they estimated the effect automation had on jobs, workers, and their wages. Daron explains that it's not as cut and dry as just robots steal jobs. Because there are really two forces at play here. Two effects that are both vying for dominance. Okay, so let's take car manufacturing, for instance. Robots could paint cars, a job that was once done by humans. So that's an example of robots taking jobs. Daron says this is called the displacement effect. By displacement, I mean just very simply the fact that if robots are doing painting, then workers who were previously specialized in painting are no longer going to do that.

11:14They're displaced from the painting tasks. But there is also this other force, this other effect that's happening. Robots can also make jobs or complement existing jobs. Once workers are displaced from the tasks that robots can now do, they can go and do other things. And sometimes, not always, but sometimes that could actually be a good thing for them because they're doing more interesting things. If robots are painting, that could create opportunities for new jobs. Maybe there's a need for engineers to design the robots or machinists to take care of them or more managers to handle the workflow.

11:51Daron says this is called the reinstatement effect. Reinstatement means essentially now how we are creating new jobs or new types of jobs in in order to bring workers back into the production process. These two forces, displacement and reinstatement, are going in opposite directions. And in the end, Deron and his co-author found in the areas that they looked at, displacement won out. They found that one new robot per thousand workers reduced employment by about three workers, and overall wages decreased by about 0.4%. But the effect of automation on wages can be different for different workers.

12:30Automation can complement higher wage workers. Robots can help them do tasks and be more productive, allowing their wages to go up even higher. But automation can displace middle wage workers and force them into lower wage jobs. Think like people on the assembly line who painted cars. They might end up pouring paint into machines or doing janitorial work. That probably means their wages go down or they might even lose their manufacturing job altogether. And these competing forces aren't just contained to the manufacturing industry. Theoretically, workers losing their jobs might create an excess of labor and drive down wages in other industries.

13:05But also, some workers who benefited from automation might earn more and have more disposable income. Maybe they use that money to go out to eat more. This creates more jobs in, say, the food industry. Some of those displaced manufacturing workers who used to paint cars could get a job at a restaurant as a waiter or a prep cook. Now, up until the last decade or two, restaurants haven't really faced these automation effects. Some of the skills required in kitchens, the dexterity of, say, julienning vegetables or mincing garlic, some of those jobs take fine motor skills and levels of precision that robots have not been capable of.

13:42So what we've seen in these other industries, in manufacturing in the 90s and early 2000s, hasn't really happened in the restaurant industry yet. In the last 10 years, that's been changing. Robots are stepping up their game. They've started by taking over the simpler, more repetitive jobs like frying and burger flipping. But they've been working their way up the ladder to finer knife skills and even preparing complicated sauces. So Robbie the Walkbot might complement higher-end workers, making them more productive. But it could also replace some workers and push some middle-skill workers into lower-skill work.

14:18So the line cook ends up just pouring raw ingredients into the robot or doing some other grunt work. Back at the Smackdown, Chef Pong and Robbie are both finishing up their second dishes, veggie fried rice. The dishes look and smell pretty good to me, but we have called in a professional to be the official judge. Let's go meet him.

14:44Why am I the judge of this competition? Um, it's my fascination. Shola Olinloyo is a chef. He's worked in some famous restaurants on the East Coast. He's a big name in Philly and New York. You may have seen him on cooking shows. You are underselling him. All right. He didn't want us to name names, but he's cooked for some pretty famous people and Hollywood stars. Fancy. And it all started back when he was a kid in Nigeria. I grew up in West Africa. You know, there were no, like, you know, Whole Foods or Super Freshers. We went to the market. We bought stuff. We cooked it. So Shola's our judge because he knows food and because he knows the restaurant industry.

15:25He says the economics of that industry is notoriously tight. The median profit margin for a restaurant is three to four percent. That seems small. It is very small. OK. You make that much more than that in treasury bills if you just do nothing. Right. Just give your money to the U.S. government and go on vacation. Actually, you'd get about the same for a lot less work. And that's why automation is so appealing for restaurant owners. Rents are high, the cost of food is high, and labor costs are high. Shola says robots may be able to help restaurants stay competitive. Are you pro-automation? I'm pro-automation.

16:02I'm pro-automation where it makes sense. And it makes sense in a lot of places. Shola is a consultant for restaurants and companies in the food industry. they'll sometimes ask them to look at new technology, like automated ovens or special food processors, and tell them how to make the technology better. So, Shola's pro-automation, but he's also pro-taste. He cares about food and flavor. But he says for food that isn't high-end, like burgers, fries, chicken wings, the majority of people won't notice the subtle differences between human and robot cooking. Most people won't tell the difference, especially with high-glutamate foods that are just, like, hot and crispy and saucy.

16:39Does that make you want to cry that people can't tell you? No, it doesn't make me want to cry. It's just the truth. It's the reality of cooking. Not every singer is Whitney Houston, but they still make money and sell music. Shola is not the only person who thinks there's a place for robots in kitchens. We talked to a lot of people in the food industry, and they've told us, robots can do things humans can't do. Like Robbie, for example. In the time it takes a human to make four servings, Robbie can make 15. And while a human can have an off day or an off dish, the robot is consistent. Now, the robot does break down sometimes, and that can be a problem for a restaurant for a couple hours or a day or however long it takes to fix it.

17:22But for the most part, it is remarkably consistent and makes the same quality of food every single time. And that comes at a cost. According to the manufacturer, a company called Next Robot, Robby costs about$36 ,000 right now. That's a lot for most restaurants. So many kitchens rent their WalkBots, and it ends up costing about$5 an hour. But as technology improves and there's more competition in robot chefs, the cost for WalkBots will probably go down. Right now, for the dishes we bought for this competition, the food made by the robot costs about the same as the food made by a human. But if the robot gets cheaper and the robot food gets cheaper, there might be a bigger and bigger difference.

18:10All right, we've got our competitors. We've got our judge. Let's see how the cooking is going. First, Chef Fung is at work making our vegetable fried rice. And you have to have strong arm muscles to do that. That's what I'm saying. He is working hard. I definitely don't get that kind of airtime on my fried rice. We asked Chef Feng if he thinks a robot could do his job. And he's like, no way. There's no way a robot could get that caramelized flavor, that guac-he, into a dish. Who do you think is going to be better? Do you think you can do it better? Or do you think the machine will be better? The machine is not so good.

18:59He's confident that it's going to be our dish because if you lack guacchi in a dish, it's just a burglar dish. Okay, Chef Fung likes his chances. But Judy tells us there's a problem with human chefs right now. No one wants to do this type of intense labor anymore. Have you hired recently? Recently? No. We've tried previously hiring, but we just have to let them go. Judy says people will come in, work a few days, and then they bounce. Not for them. Or they just can't do it. The technique isn't there. Robots could help with that staffing problem. So she gets why restaurants would get a robot rather than hire qualified human chefs.

19:39I understand 100%. I'm not going to lie. But as a diner, I know for a fact that they can taste it. I can taste it. I'm a diner, too. Judy can imagine more and more robots in restaurant kitchens. And she's sad that future generations might lose the flavor and tradition. Things like guacay that were such a part of her childhood. Next, we check in on Robbie the Wocpot. It is also making the vegetable fried rice. After the robot finishes and self-washes, Kenny, the prep cook, and I peer into the drum. And? There's still some rice in there. So now you're spraying it with a water hose. And is this still easier than having, like, a human chef making it?

20:20Oh, yeah, for sure. Why so? The human chef, you need to at least two months to learn to know how to use the wok. To use this machine, all you need like 30 minutes or hour. 30 minutes of training versus months or years of training. That means Kenny can hire just about anyone. Now I don't have to require a main chef. How has it changed the staffing for the restaurant? It's easier. So now I don't need to ask them what's your skill no more. All I need to ask them, what's your availability? So hiring, staffing, training, all those costs have gone down. As Robbie worked on the next dish, we told Kenny about their SmackDown competitor, Ting Wong.

21:01Ting Wong's good. I order food from them all the time. So who do you think is going to be better, the robot or the human? They might fail, man. Why you put me in a spot like this? He seems a little taken aback. I think very, very similar. It's a close competition. Very close competition, yeah. But, like, you feel pretty confident that the robot can stand up to the... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think you could tell the difference which one's made by the robot? I don't think so. All right. Enough speculating. It's time to taste some food. The chef versus robot smackdown? That's after the break.

21:41Support for this podcast and the following message come from E-Trade from Morgan Stanley. Discover a wide range of investing choices and banking solutions all in one place. Plus, get up to$1 ,500 when you open a brokerage account with a qualifying deposit today. Learn more at etrade.com slash offer. Banking products and services are provided by Morgan Stanley Private Bank, National Association, member FDIC. Terms and other fees apply. Investing involves risks. Morgan Stanley, Smith Barney, LLC, member SIPC. Support for this program comes from Northwestern University's Online Master of Science in Information Systems.

22:18Graduates build the advanced skills needed to lead in IT, choosing from specializations including AI, data science, and IS security. Details are at sps.northwestern.edu. This message comes from Dell. Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments that matter, Like a big project that can't be interrupted by an update. With long-lasting battery life, you can stay focused on what matters. Built for you. Dell.com slash Dell PCs. This message comes from LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you wear many hats. You're the owner, the marketer, the seller, the hirer. With LinkedIn, you have the tools to help you boost your visibility, find prospective customers, and find the best team for your small business.

23:07all in one place. So while LinkedIn can't hang up all of your hats, it makes it easier to wear them all. Learn more at linkedin.com slash planetmoneyshow.

23:22Now it's time for what we've all been waiting for, the chef versus robot smackdown. Both competitors, Robbie the robot and chef Fung the human, made the same three dishes. Our judge, Shola, is going to judge two things. First, he'll try each of the dishes head-to-head and judge them on taste. Then, he's going to guess which dish was made by the human and which one was made by the robot. Let's get to it. The first dish that we'll be presenting you? Yeah. We're going with beef chow fun first. Xolo starts by smelling both dishes, picking up each plate and putting his whole face in. I mean, they both smell like chow fun.

24:13He notices something about one dish. This smells more caramelized on the meat side. Do they both look like reasonable? Yeah, they look reasonable. He takes his time trying each of the two dishes. And Shola says both had good noodle texture, but he had a clear favorite. I feel like this is the human one. To me, they both tasted about the same. And I will say, I agreed with Shola. I thought I could taste that char, that waké in one of the dishes. Shola writes down his scores. All right, on to the next dish. So, what do we have here? Vegetable fried rice with egg. Okay. He loads up his chopsticks, takes a bite.