The 60-day job race

0:00Support comes from our 2025 lead sponsor of Planet Money, Amazon Ads. Less than half of customers fully trust their financial institutions. Amazon Ads helps financial brands build that trust through relevant ads using first-party signals to reach the right customers. More at advertising.amazon.com. Today's episode mentions Amazon, which supports and pays to distribute some of our content. We also mentioned Google, IBM, and LinkedIn, all financial supporters of NPR. Now, here's today's show. This is Planet Money from NPR. January of 2023 was a pretty rough month if you worked in tech. PayPal announced that they're going to lay off 2 ,000 people.

0:47IBM was laying off nearly 4 ,000 people. And news leaked that Amazon was getting ready to lay off 18 ,000 people. At the time, Ashka was a product engineer at Amazon working on things like their search engine. Do you remember the day, what day it was? Like, were you anticipating getting laid off or was it a surprise to you? So we were aware that the decision would be given on 18th of January, but like not in my wildest dreams. I had imagined that I would be the one impacted. But then, yeah, this happened. Ashka thought she was working on a really successful team. There had been an all-hands meeting a couple of months before these layoffs, and she says management singled them out, told them in front of everyone, you guys are doing great.

1:36So when she got the news, she was really shocked. Yeah, it was pretty bad on that day. Like, I cried a lot because I had dedicated a lot of time of my life towards shining at my job and, like, performing at my best. Right as Ashka was being laid off from Amazon, another tech worker named Nalanjan was facing the same thing at Google. For him, it started like this. It was about 5.30 in the morning. My wife was broken up with her phone vibrating, and she had received an email about the layoffs in the organization. Layoffs at Google effective immediately. His wife also works there, so they're not sure what this means.

2:21Has he been laid off? Has she? Have they both been laid off? Nalanjan got up and went straight to his laptop. But he can't log into his work email, his corporate account. And he's like, come on, there must be something wrong with the network. And he started typing in his login over and over and over again. It took me about 15 minutes of trying out different ways of logging in to realize, no, this has actually happened and this is the reality. I have just lost my job. He was sitting there in his pajamas, kind of stunned. His wife was not laid off, but he was. Nalanjan had moved to the U.S. in 2022 for what was his dream job?

3:00Global product lead for omni-channel advertising products. Basically, he works in digital advertising. You know, he was an ad guy at Google. And now Google needed to shrink its workforce? Yeah, I mean, it was painful. It felt personal and not about the company, not about the fact that I had lost my job. but it was about the fact that I really loved my work. Both Ashka and Nilanjan were working with Americans who also got laid off and some of their colleagues were treating the news differently. They were kind of seeing this as an opportunity to take some time off. But Ashka and Nilanjan couldn't.

3:38They're both in the U.S. on H-1B visas, temporary work visas. They have to have jobs. And if they don't get jobs in time, they'll need to leave the country. The clock really is ticking because I need to land an interview and start the process as soon as possible. Hello and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Alyssa Jong-Perry. And I'm Amanda Aronchik. People come from all over the world to work in U.S. tech. And during the tech boom years, the industry relied heavily on foreign workers. This is how we built Silicon Valley, with great minds from everywhere. But when the industry started to shrink last year, all of these people who moved here for work are finding that linking their jobs to their residency is complicated.

4:24Today on the show, we follow two tech workers as they try to find jobs before their visas expire and they have to leave the country.

4:57Thank you. retirement, buying a home, or managing debt. Using rich first-party insights, Amazon Ads connects brands with the right audiences where they browse, buy, and stream. Learn more at advertising.amazon.com. The competition to get an H-1B visa is tough. Once a year, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services opens up a lottery for H-1B visas. It's for people with a specialized skill who are often working in science and tech, companies sponsor applicants that they hope to employ long term. This year, there were more than 780 ,000 applications, but only 85 ,000 visas will be granted. So about 10 % of applicants will get visas.

5:47Ashka and Nalanjan both felt really lucky when they won the lottery and got their visas to work for Amazon and Google, respectively. These visas are good for three years and can be renewed usually once. And tech companies have relied on them to staff up with foreign talent. That coincided with a boom in the tech industry. And because the past few years have been so boom-y, people who came here on H-1B visas did not expect to lose their jobs. So sometimes people on H-1Bs buy houses, open bank accounts, lease cars. They settle in. Like take Ashka. Both her and her sister moved to the U.S., and Ashka was counting on her new salary to help support herself and her younger sister.

6:27I have my sibling over here studying over here for her undergrad. So because I had started the job, I told my parents that now we both will take care of ourselves. So I was paying her tuition fees. Ashka promised her family that she'll pay her younger sister's tuition,$22 ,000 a year. So right now I need to get a job as soon as possible so that I can pay her tuition fees in like August or September, whenever it comes for the next semester. So firstly, my focus is on lending a job right now. Ashka and her family hope that she and her sister will stay in the U.S. long term. And they thought her job at Amazon was a good, stable job, maybe even a path towards citizenship.

7:13Nalanjan also has a few commitments. He helps support his parents in India by paying their medical bills. Meanwhile, his family here in the U.S. is growing. We are expecting a baby in May, and I wouldn't want any kind of an immigration hassle to crop up, which makes me go back to India, and we are in two separate continents during this time. He does not want to be stuck out of the country when his wife gives birth. And that is a possibility, because an immigration hassle could totally pop up. Nalanjan and Ashka can stay on their H-1B and stay in the U.S. if they can find new jobs within 60 days.

7:52And if their new employer is willing to sponsor their visas. Nalanjan figures the whole visa transfer process by itself will take about four weeks. Which means it's one month. So technically, I have just 30 days and not 60 days to find a job. This timeline was weighing on him. The more stressful the situation was, the more organized and methodical he got. He was like, there must be a spreadsheet I could build to fix this problem. As a person, I'm very action-oriented, and I always feel that I should be taking some action to make things right. So as a result, during the entire day, I'm kind of overproductive and hyperactive.

8:30So at night, when I go to sleep, I'm unable to sleep because the mind just doesn't shut off. And therefore, rest has become very erratic. This was in February, a couple of weeks after he got laid off. Nalanjan said that he was only getting a couple of hours of sleep at night, and then he was waking up from not really sleeping and spending 10 to 12 hours a day at his new job, which was finding a job. Small note, we don't want to jeopardize Ashka and Nalanjan's ability to find and get jobs, so we're only using their first names. For Ashka, what she realized she needed first, after being laid off, was some parental love.

9:07but her mom and dad lived far away in India. So instead, she went to stay with the parents of a good friend of hers who happened to be visiting from India. So I felt really good staying with them. Like I found a mother and a father kind of a figure. So yeah, I stayed with them for a couple of days until I'm like all well and like ready to apply to another job. She tried to not take the layoff personally. Some days she was successful at that and others not so much. Staying with her friend's parents was just what she needed. I no longer feel like a loser. So, yeah, that's the whole point right now.

9:46Oh, I don't think you're a loser. Yeah, but in the initial days I used to feel like I'm the biggest loser and like things like that. I know. It's hard not to take it personally, right? Yeah, yeah. Like I knew that it wasn't based on performance anyways. But then, like, obviously you ask questions to God, like, why me? So, yeah, like, it's not like I have gotten over that completely, but then it comes and goes now. Yeah, so I'm happy about that. At least it doesn't stay for a longer time. This conversation took place near the end of February. Ashka was still receiving paychecks from Amazon. And the 60-day clock was going to start when she was officially terminated.

10:29At that point, she thought she had enough time to find a new job. So she was trying to treat her situation as a problem-tunity. You sound more upbeat. Yeah, so that is because I have gotten into my discipline schedule. So doing small, small things, right? In the morning, I woke up at four, done, tick. I did my meditation, tick. I did my gymming, tick. So that makes me feel more accomplished throughout the day. Ashka got into a routine. Yeah, she would wake up at 4 a.m., research potential employers, and then get on LinkedIn and start applying to jobs. So right now the game is all about standing apart from the crowd.

11:11So I have resume reviews with people. I have meetings with people working at different organizations. And like, I want to learn things during this time. Like, I want to make the best use of this time. We watched her fill LinkedIn with sunflower emojis and hearts, Ashka would commiserate with people who had lost their jobs and congratulate people on their new positions. She had all of this energy and enthusiasm and was determined to find another job that would let her stay in the U.S. long term. The fact that Ashka is here for work and is hoping to stay has a lot to do with the type of visa she's on.

11:48There are two main types of U.S. visas, immigrant and non-immigrant. Immigrant visas are for people who are moving to the U.S. to stay. And non-immigrant visas are for people who are just coming for a while for work or a trip. Then they'll go home. The H-1B visa, the one Ashka and Nalanjan are on, is a little peculiar. Officially, it's called a non-immigrant visa. But it's different from most non-immigrant visas because there's no requirement that the person prove that they intend to go home. They don't have to demonstrate that, you know, they kept their apartment in the country that they came from.

12:23The H-1B is considered to have dual intent, meaning people can intend to come for a short while while also intending to stay more permanently if they can make it work. This in part was making the situation so thorny for Ashka and Nalanjan. In March, we got a voice message from Nalanjan. Scouring job posts all day was not giving him energy and enthusiasm. It has been two months since the layoff. Every passing day is a grim reminder of the direness of the situation as an immigrant. It is extremely difficult to peer for interviews with a positive mindset, get rejected, and then prepare for the next one and appear for it again with positive energy and a genuine smile.

13:05His tendency towards being overproductive was preventing him from getting what he really needed, sleep. To be honest, I'm operating like a clockwork, following my routine of job hunting, partnering with my pregnant wife who is in the third trimester, assuring our families back at home in India that situations have not yet spiraled out of control, going to bed every night, vacillating between despair and hope. Nalanjan used to love going to an office. He loved having colleagues. He loved brainstorming sessions on whiteboards with those erasable markers. He loved going to work. Being jobless was deeply unsettling for him.

13:45This void has had an impact on my sense of identity. Some days are harder than the others. The journey is on. Let's see how far I'm able to travel before the time runs out. So wish me luck and pray for me. For Ashka, by the time we talked in April, she had just 35 days left before her visa would run out. She had submitted a ton of resumes and had been interviewed by about 30 to 40 companies. That's a lot of interviews. Usually, she would wait until the very end of these interviews to say, look, I'm on this H-1B visa. And a lot of the times, that seemed to change the conversation. From the company's perspective, workers on an H-1B are going to stick around.

14:31The visa makes it harder for them to quit. So that's a positive if you're an employer. But at the same time, hiring someone on H-1B can cost$5 ,000 to$10 ,000. And it's complicated. It's a lot of paperwork. But even though the clock was ticking, Ashka still felt confident about getting a job in time. So ever since I have stepped in the United States, my story has been like this. Like, everything happens at the end moment. And, like, I have been joking that right now I am the audience to my own story. And I am waiting, like, what will happen next in Ashka's life. How do you feel like Ashka, the character in the movie, is doing?

15:11Is she doing okay? She's a ninja right now. Now when I think about myself, I really feel that I have a lot of strength that I didn't realize in the past. And I think I'm stronger than I thought that I was. Both Nalanjan and Ashka were doing everything they could think of to try to get a job before their visas ran out, and they would have to leave the U.S.

15:41After the break, the countdown gets down to the last 30 days. Also, a big move and a baby.

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17:14We spoke with a bunch of economists with different takes on the H-1B visa. Most of them agree that we want a way to bring in highly skilled, well-trained workers. It's good for our economy. But as it stands now, it's not working well. Some say that the 60-day rule is onerous, or the limit on the number of visas is too low, and that the system can lead to companies abusing and exploiting H-1B workers. So the big issue with the H-1B visa having all of these problems is that workers like Ashka and Nalanjan might tell their highly skilled, well-trained friends back home, don't come to the U.S. Living on an H-1B is too precarious.

17:55Then these friends might instead choose to move to Canada or Portugal or Singapore, places that are easier to go to for work. With just 20 days left before her visa was going to expire, around the end of April, we spoke with Ashka again. This time, she was no longer a job applying ninja, fighting her way against all the odds. She was close to getting a job she really wanted at a startup. But again, her visa situation seemed to be messing things up. I'm still trying to convince them, but I am not sure at this point. In the last conversation with her potential boss, The woman said that the startup wanted to hire Ashka, but she also encouraged Ashka to look for other jobs just in case.

18:41On the day when I heard this thing from the founder, I was like, I don't want to get up from my bed. I don't want to eat. I don't want to do anything. And yeah, so my sister kind of ordered me food so like I can have food. So, yeah, so that was really like one of the darkest days of my life. Like, of course, I'm exaggerating it. But, yeah, it was very difficult to get through that day. And this wasn't the only news she shared with us. Also, she said that she could no longer afford to live in Seattle. She made the decision to move back where she went to grad school. So I am moving to Texas to a friend's place where I can live for some time without paying my rent.

19:30So that is the plan. I'm moving on Sunday. Did you pack up your place in Seattle? Yeah. So, yeah, my room is filled with boxes and bags right now. So, yeah, hopefully Texas brings me some good news. That same month, April, we heard again from Nalanjan. He had 47 days before his visa was going to run out. And he'd also applied for a very large number of jobs. How many times did you submit your resume? You think like 20 times? I'll give you three guesses. 60? 75? 100? Yeah. So I think I have applied to about somewhat close to about 150 to 200 opportunities. Wow. Out of all those applications, Nalanjan got two job interviews, two.

20:24And he was a finalist for one. So you're a finalist for a job, which is excellent and very exciting. When do you find out if you get the job? Oh, I mean, when I say finalist for the role, it means that I have got the job. Now, I have got the job. But the challenge that lies ahead of us is to get the immigration thing done. Yes, this company was ready to hire him. Yes, they were willing to sponsor his visa, but Nalanjan was finding this whole thing so stressful that he couldn't acknowledge that he had gotten the job and he was still calling himself a finalist. He still needed to finish the paperwork to send to immigration for his H-1B visa transfer, and it wasn't guaranteed that it would go through.

21:09So my clock runs out on May 30th. I need to have an answer within May 30th. Wow. Okay, so this is very big news for you. And are you looking for other jobs now just in case? I don't want to, to be honest. I don't want to because I already have applied to lots of places and I'm still getting responses from those places. Most of them are rejections, or I should say all of them are rejections. But yeah, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed and hoping that the approval goes through because if the approval doesn't go through, then I'll be back to Sky 1. And yeah, it's a scary place to be in. As Nalanjan waited to hear about the job, he was also waiting for his baby.

21:58The due date was a month away. He and his wife had a spreadsheet to keep track of all the stuff they needed. He was watching YouTube videos about installing car seats. And he was trying to keep his overactive mind busy. Meanwhile, Ashka was settling in in Texas. We don't hear much from her for about a month. We were worried that no news was bad news because she's usually chatty when things are going well. So we messaged her again three days before her visa was set to expire in May, and we set up a time to talk. Ashka, so I've been getting your messages on WhatsApp, and I've been trying to interpret them because you have said so little.

22:36And I was like, well, you sent me a heart emoji. And then I was like, well, maybe that's a good sign? Yeah. Yeah. So I think we talked about that startup, right? Last time that I was expecting. Yeah. She messaged me that they are pausing all the hiring. So they couldn't hire me. So yeah. So that thing ended that way. But like right now I have a job. What? So wait a minute. You didn't get the startup job? But then I got a job at a pharmacy. Ashka got a job. She's working for a pharmacy, helping to build tools so people can order their medications online. She's teaching the other employees how to use artificial intelligence.

23:26And hey, the title sounds pretty good. She's VP of product. So you sound, uh... Like, I feel like it's kind of good news. Like you didn't have to all of a sudden pack and leave. Yeah, yeah, it is a good news. But then because of the pay, it's not paying me that well. So I'm still looking out for a better option. It's like 50 % less than what I was getting paid. So yeah, I'm still living at my friend's place right now. And I cannot survive at this pay. I still can't move into my own rented apartment yet based on that. So, yeah. So, and also I had mentioned that I need to pay my sister's tuition fee.

24:20So, yeah. For the time being, Ashka has had to take a much lower paying job working for this pharmacy because they agreed to sponsor her visa. This kind of thing, people doing tech work at non-tech companies, sometimes for non-tech salaries, seems to be happening to a lot of people on H-1B visas right now. The H-1B visa program is supposed to help the economy by bringing in skilled workers. But right now, as the tech industry shrinks and there are layoffs, the program is showing its cracks. Some of the rules are hard on the workers, people with commitments, people with sisters and babies. When we try and reach out to Nalanjan again in May, we don't hear much.

25:02I don't know. Guess maybe having a baby appears to be more important than talking to us. Ugh, babies. So typical. When we do speak, it is 11 days before his visa is going to expire. And honestly, this time, it's like talking to a different person. So, yeah, I mean, quite a few updates recently. And so on May 5th, I have become a dad to a little girl. Yavi is her name. It's beautiful. Yeah, it means the place where the earth meets the heaven. That's her for us. So we thought that it would be a great name. Nalanjan says his wife is doing well and so is the baby. And then we ask, what's up with your visa status and that job offer?

25:48Oh yeah, I was waiting for you to ask this question because our baby was born and this tiny little human comes out wailing and flailing hands and legs and we were like we had become parents and before we could even grasp that that change she decided to take a nap and I sat down on a chair and I thought that I might as well send a message to my family whatsapp groups and then when I took out my phone I saw that I had received an email from the immigration attorneys. I opened it tentatively. And the only thing that flashed in front of my eyes was a screenshot of the word approved. So I did not even read the body of the email.

26:30I just saw approved and I told it to my wife. Yeah, so that's the way I found out. That is unreal. So all that I could think of at that point in time was thanking my daughter for the good luck that she has brought. The baby was born on a Friday, and that Monday, Nalanjin was at his new office, starting his new job. While some people might have been sad to go back to work so soon, Nalanjin was thrilled.

27:05This episode was produced by Sam Yellowhorse Kessler. It was engineered by James Willits. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and edited by Molly Messick and Jess Jang. Thanks to Lenny Benson, Ming Chen, Ranil Hira, Gwarev Khanna, and Mark Lopez. Also a special thanks this week to Rebecca Reby at Ogletree Deacons and William Kerr, author of The Gift of Global Talent, How Migration Shapes Business, Economy, and Society. I'm Alyssa Jung Perry. And I'm Amanda Aranchik. This is NPR. Thanks for listening.