1039: Trump Wants You To Stop Talking About Epstein

17:46Jon Favreau:No. Although I think CNN reported that no one senior at DOJ had talked to Dan Bongino since Wednesday. So we're kind of like... But he's back at work today, apparently. Well, we're like yada, yada, yada in the part where the deputy FBI director is just not doing his job. He's quiet quit. Fuck, he's quiet quitting. I think Trump can silence parts of like the MAGA like professional class. The biggest sycophants. Right. Like Charlie Kirk is the perfect example. Like TPUSA needs access to Trump officials. It's a symbiotic relationship. I think Charlie will try to like calm the storm to preserve his relationship.

18:19Jon Favreau:But I just don't think that that is going to work on the rank and file and on the base. And I think that's actually really dangerous for Trump, for MAGA, for Charlie Kirk, for the country, because Charlie Kirk's competition is not like the lame kind of centrist traditional Republicans. It's Nick Fuentes and guys to the far, far right. Nick Fuentes is out there saying Trump's a joke. MAGA is dead. It's over. This statement, you know, that he put out the other day is ridiculous. and like I can't remember if I talked to you about this or if it was Ben on Pod Save the World. One night, because I'm just a sicko, I watched a two hour and 40 minute debate on InfoWars hosted by Alex Jones between Dinesh D'Souza and Nick Buentas.

19:02Jon Favreau:We have talked. On Iran. And look, I was doing my own research and Nick Buentas is a bad dude. Like he's like genuine like questions of the Holocaust, like real like neo-Nazi shit. but my takeaway from it was it was a really substantive debate it did not get ugly Alex Jones kept jumping in because he wanted them to like fight each other more viciously it was like and and what I came away thought they were just making some good points what I came away thinking was uh Fuentes is dangerous right like if you can if you can present as reasonable in that context for that long in a debate with someone who is you know like Dinesh D'Souza I don't respect him I I don't think he's like an honest person, but he's like a professional debater.

19:45Jon Favreau:I think you could convince a lot of people to follow you and that your other like neo-Nazi views are maybe they seem less French. I had that concern today seeing what Laura Loomer has been up to, which is she's using her connections in MagoWorld to actually break news. and so then people take her a little more seriously because she's breaking news which is valuable to media outlets and people like us who talk about the news right and then now that she's taken seriously and like people go to her for quotes she can espouse all of her hateful crazy views yeah i i kind of like struggle with sometimes i'm like should i be retweeting these people because i want to make sure reporters all see that there is this like tumult within the mega movement yeah i'm And it's not like am I platforming her?

20:31Jon Favreau:It's like, should I just be promoting these people generally? And then I remember Laura Loomer got the head of the NSA fired. So like horse is out of the bar here. She's a mover and shaker. She's got some influence. I do think he can get Charlie Kirk back on board. And I think Fox will be like, the people at Fox will be like the first to get back on board, right? Right. They'll be like, who are we invading? I can see the news cycle moving on because it just does and he'll do other things and say other things. But this is one of those things that goes like back underground into the swamps of the internet.

20:59And it just keeps circulating. And the Nick Fontes of the world and Laura, like there's people who are still going to be pissed about this for a long time. And next time Trump pisses his base off with something, this will get brought up.

21:15Jon Favreau:Yes. And conspiracy theories like this that are kind of like blobs with no boundaries and amorphous, they just evolve to like envelop current events. I think I mentioned to you how I saw some kind of conservative influencers saying that the DOJ memo that went out about Epstein in the first place was time for Bibi Netanyahu's visit because they all think that Epstein was like a Mossad asset. And it's just going to be like shit like that, like over and over and over. Or Naftali Bennett, like having to respond today, former prime minister of Israel, be like, he's not Mossad, I promise. He's no ties to Israeli intelligence.

21:44Jon Favreau:Okay. Did you see Lara Trump on Benny Johnson's show? Lara Trump said, there needs to be more transparency. I think that will happen. I know this is important to the president. He's going to want to set things right. I believe there will be more coming in anything they're able to release. They will try to get out. They hear it and understand it. What did you make it? I'm interested in that. Interesting. I mean, like the basic demand that seems like it would satisfy someone like Megyn Kelly is let me sit down with Pam Bondi, Cash Patel and Dan Bongino for a two hour interview where I get to ask anything I want.

22:20Jon Favreau:Like putting those three in front of a Trump sort of sycophantic journalist makes a lot of sense. Why wouldn't you do that? I also think that they are not necessarily above putting out fake information or information that is real, but just not the full story. Like I was sort of not to give them any ideas, but I've been wondering why they don't just like if there's stuff they're worried about, you know, not release that and then just give some chum to everyone on other issues. I think they could definitely do that. My guess for why a smart but evil person involved in these conversations would think that's risky is that I think a lot of people have probably seen these files that are kind of in the professional workforce.

22:59Jon Favreau:Yeah, they're in the FBI, like New York office, or, you know, they worked on the 2008 case down in Florida, right? And there's just like a lot of ways it could leak. Yeah, that's true. Dan Bongino, like how does he stay in the job? You know, he takes the mental health day, he's been doing these podcasts, and now he's just going to be like, no, no, no, I'm okay? Just for people who don't know, like take a second, Google Dan Bongino. His head looks like Minecraft. He looks so jacked. He's like a roided up dude. He was a twin. I think there were two Secret Service agents. Remember? I mean, he was like on Obama's detail for a long guy.

23:34Jon Favreau:Yeah. That's where they wrote the Epstein files together. And then Dan ran for office three different times unsuccessfully, but pivoted to being a very successful podcaster. but he has a crazy temper and anger management problem. And there's this clip of him screaming at this reporter named Mark Caputo, who now works at Axios that Caputo published shortly after it happened, where he's just like losing his mind. But to your question, like the only way Bongino can stay in the job is because ultimately in the Trump world, there is one boss and his name is Donald Trump and no one else's opinion matters because like Trump, like the deputy director job, It's not Senate confirmed.

24:13Jon Favreau:There's not a lot of accountability. Like Trump announced the pick of both Patel and Bongino. But there's reporting that Patel actually chose Dan to be his deputy and did so after he told, I think it was like the retired FBI association, that he would pick a career FBI officer to serve in that job. Because this is what usually happens. Literally every time. Literally every time. Never not happen. Yeah. Yeah. So he lied to them. But like technically, Dan Bongino reports to DOJ. Yeah, he reports to Pan Bondi and he apparently screamed at his boss in the White House. You could also see a situation where Bongino stays in the job for now and then tries to just like leave in a couple of months because of something else or at least tries to claim that it was for some other reason.

24:55Ambassador to Liechtenstein. More mental health days. Yeah. Democrats in Congress like Ro Khanna and Mark Veasey of Texas want to force a vote on legislation that would require DOJ to release all the files. What do you think? I like it.

25:07Jon Favreau:I mean, Roe's trying to attach his amendment to this cryptocurrency bill that's kind of sailing through the House. I think it'll get voted down because they'll claim it's like non-germane to the underlying legislation, as if that has like prevented them from doing this in the past. But I think any as many bad votes for Republicans on this issue is good. I support the other proposals as well. I think like the obvious caveats, right? You don't want to release anything that would put out information about the victims and harm them. You don't want to do anything that would help Ghislaine Maxwell get her case thrown out on appeal.

25:37Jon Favreau:So did you, I didn't realize this until today. Apparently DOJ has until today, July 14th to respond to her appeal because she wants to go up to the Supreme Court. And the Trump solicitor general has delayed their response to her demands twice. I also saw that she – like sources say she's willing to offer more testimony about this. To the Congress. To the Congress. Let's fire up the Zoom. This is why I like the vote thing too is because either Mike Johnson tries to block the vote, which is going to just piss off the base even more, or he allows the vote. And I think that thing passes because there's enough Republicans, House Republicans who are pissed about this that you could see it passing.

26:21And then you could imagine DOJ stonewalling and just saying, like, fuck you, we're not releasing it. Like, I don't care what Congress says. But at the very least, I think they get pressure to, like, have Cash, Bongino, Bondi come to the Hill and testify. Like, that has to be coming.

26:39Jon Favreau:Well, those guys, I mean, I think statutorily will have to go to the Hill at some point, right? Right. There's the yearly threat assessment hearing or there's like general routine committee oversight hearing. So they're going to be up on the Hill at some point anyway. And Democrats in those settings should ask about nothing but this over and over and over again. And ideally, like a Democrat should reach out to some crazy Republican who's pissed about this and sort of like coordinate questions. No doubt. And just be like on this issue, let's kind of, you know, work together. No doubt. But like Ghislaine Maxwell, she is arguing that the 2008 non-prosecution agreement that was given to Jeffrey Epstein included all of her associates and should have prevented her prosecution in this latest case.

27:16Jon Favreau:So she's trying to get that to go to the Supreme Court. You have to imagine her lawyer is also trying to get some sort of appeal, as politically untenable as that would be. And maybe once it is confirmed that that will not be happening, hence the delays, she decides to speak her truth to some journalist somewhere. Just wait till Trump hardens her on his way out the door. And also just fucks J.D. Vance's campaign. Absolutely. That's an ending. Couldn't have it. I'm a nicer guy.

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29:51All right, let's move on to another issue where Trump made big promises, failed to deliver, and is now doing the thing he criticized. Putin's invasion of Ukraine. On Monday, the president announced that the United States would resume sending weapons, including the Patriot Air Defense missile systems, to Ukraine. Except rather than provide the weapons directly to Ukraine, the U.S. will sell the weapons to NATO countries, who will then provide them to Ukraine. So we're basically back to the Biden administration's policy, except with a few more steps in the middle. Trump also threatened Russia with 100 % tariffs.

30:21If a peace deal isn't reached in the next 50 days, a deadline I'm sure will hold. Here's Trump in the Oval answering some questions about the announcement.

30:29Jon Favreau:How far are you willing to go if Putin were to escalate, send more bombs in the coming days? Don't ask me a question like that. How far? I don't know. I want to get the war settled. You know, we want to defend our country. But, you know, ultimately, having a strong Europe is a very good thing. How did you tell Putin this was coming? I speak to him a lot about getting this thing done. And I always hang up and say, well, that was a nice phone call. And that missile's launched into Kiev or some other city. And I said, strange. And after that happens three or four times, you say, the talk doesn't mean anything.

31:08He's, I don't want to say he's an assassin, but he's a tough guy. It's been proven over the years. He's fooled a lot of people. He fooled Bush. He fooled a lot of people. He fooled Clinton, Bush, Obama, Biden. He didn't fool me. Oh, he didn't fool you, huh? Sure, it seems like he didn't. Which is why now you're... Changing. Now you're changing. Pretty significant reversal in Trump's stance on Ukraine, right?

31:31Jon Favreau:Yeah. Also, he always sounds like he just Googled Ukraine for the first time when he talks about this. Or like, Googled Putin for the first time. I didn't know this guy was such a dick. Some people say he was KGB. Yeah, you know, when I first... Like, my views on this have been evolving throughout the day. It's obviously a massive tonal shift. How many weeks ago was it? Months ago, where we just had the Oval meeting with Zelensky? where Trump and Vance were screaming at him? Yeah, basically beat him up. Four months ago. Punched him in the oval. Right. Now it's like, well, I don't know. Maybe he had some points.

31:59Thank you, yeah.

32:00Jon Favreau:It's not totally clear to me how much of a substantive shift it is quite yet. So like the messaging has gone from, as you said, it's gone from like, I'll end the war in 24 hours to I'll dick around for six months and then solve it in 50 days. But if you think back to the 2022 messaging, like remember right after the full-scale invasion, he said he wouldn't call it illegal. and he called Putin genius and called it savvy. Remember that? Oh my God, I forgot about that. I know, it's like shocking when you think of it. And then the campaign messaging on this was kind of predicated on accusing Biden of starting World War III, especially when the Biden administration let Ukraine hit targets with our long range missile systems that were inside Russia.

32:39Jon Favreau:But then in February, there's that Oval Office meeting you're talking about. There was that weird moment where he said, Putin went through hell with me. Remember that? Talking about the Mueller probe? Yeah. And so like the tone today, It's like, it seems like Putin has just humiliated him and humiliated him. And the first lady's giving him shit about it. Yeah, that was part of it. Yeah. I don't think that was in the clip that we just played, but he's like, yeah. And I get off the phone with Putin and I go home and I say, it was a nice call. And then Melania is like, well, he just bombed another city.

33:05Jon Favreau:Good for Melania. Yeah. Good on you, Melania. But yeah, so in the last few weeks, there was this weird announcement from the Pentagon where they said weapons shipments to Ukraine were paused. And then Trump reversed the pause. And now he's saying like, okay, we're going to send more weapons. We're going to do it through NATO. And also after 50 days, I'll put in 100 % secondary sanctions on these other countries that do business with Russia. But none of this has happened yet. So we'll see. Like one expert I talked to today said he thinks this is basically the Europeans sending Ukraine weapon systems and will agree to backfill them by selling them the stuff back to the Euros.

33:41Jon Favreau:Now, that's not nothing because like the Europeans can get Ukraine stuff fast and they probably wouldn't send the high end systems like the Patriot missile defense batteries if they didn't have a guarantee that they would get replaced because it's like very long lead times. Yeah. And the head of NATO, Mark Rutte, who's in the meeting with Biden, said we're talking about air defense missiles and ammunition. So it does sound like it's not just defensive capabilities, but it's just like I'll believe it when I see it. And also the guy coordinating it is Matt Whitaker. Remember him? Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

34:10Remember this? Wasn't he in a, was he an attorney general at one point?

34:13Jon Favreau:He was the acting attorney general. Right, yeah. I know. Acting attorney general from November 2018 to February 2019, who was famous because he was on the board of a company that sold the Big Dick Toilet. The Big Dick Toilet guy. It was a masculine toilet. Matt Whitaker, Big Dick Toilet. So if you were a well-endowed man, and traditional toilets just didn't have the space between seat to water that you needed to stay dry, he had you covered. Although I think the company was... Who among us has not needed a big dick toilet? Listen, yeah. I think the company was ultimately shut down by the FTC because it was a scam.

34:51Oh, surprise. That's crazy. That's crazy. Well, hopefully, hopefully we're selling just weapons and not the big dick toilets to... I mean, maybe they need them.

34:59Jon Favreau:Pretty ballsy. Fuck. I kind of feel like Trump was like reverse polarized against Putin or he was like, he was negatively polarized against Putin because of the Mueller probe, right? Yeah, yeah. And so it was like, they're coming after me for Putin, so now I'm going to defend Putin. Right. Because I like Putin. Yeah. And also he's a tough guy and he loves dictators, right? So like Trump loves strongmen, loves authoritarians. Totally. And he's mad at the Democrats because he thinks they invented a Russia hoax, even though Russia was trying to help him win. They did an interview, yes. Yeah. And then over the years, now that he's talking about this war, he's like, oh, this guy's kind of a dick.

35:34This guy sucks. Yeah. He didn't fool me. He fooled Obama and he fooled Bush and he fooled all the other ones, but he hasn't fooled me. He's kind of a dick.

35:40Jon Favreau:It is weird strategically for Putin because like he would get off the phone with Trump. They called, they talked on like July 3rd and then July 4th, he launches the most missiles and drones he's ever launched at Ukraine. And they're not hitting military targets. They're just hitting high rise buildings in like Kiev. And for a long time, you know, if you were in the Capitol, you were relatively safe compared to the east of the country because of the Patriot systems, but they're just running out of interceptor missiles. And Russia can also sort of overwhelm them if they fire enough of these shitty Iranian drones in addition to ballistic missiles.

36:10Jon Favreau:So like tons of innocent people are getting killed. I mean, it's possible that their aging authoritarian also acts on impulse and is not necessarily playing 3D chess. Yeah, that's well said and is a prick. And ultimately his kind of his mission is not just taking territory in Ukraine. It's kind of like undercutting the entire American system and NATO and our values and the idea that democracy is better. Yeah. And I think that there is part of Trump that doesn't like to see a lot of war, not necessarily because he believes in peace and he cares about people all over the world, but because he knows that war is messy and that it looks bad.

36:45Yeah. Right. This is like how I think this is how he feels about Gaza and how he felt about Iran. Like anything I can do to just get wars over, to just like get all the mess off the screens because people don't like war. I think he probably thinks like that.

36:56Jon Favreau:I agree with that. I mean, his latest thing is trying to take credit for all these kind of ceasefire deals and peace agreements and say he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize. Dying for that peace prize. Yeah, there was an agreement between Congo and Rwanda that has a ceasefire and a conflict there. But the devil's in the details. And when you look at the substance of the deal, it's basically just another mineral extraction deal for the US for these rare earths. And the main militant group, the M23, was not a party to it and have not said they would agree to it. So it's like when you like dig one inch below the surface, it's all bullshit.

37:27Jon Favreau:But I agree with you. Like he doesn't, I do think there's a part of him that is genuinely think like knows politically war is bad. Yes, exactly. He's trying to pull US troops back from abroad, whether it's Europe or Syria or whatever. He knows it's bad politics. And you just say I was, when I was listening to you guys on Pod Save the World the other week, and I hadn't heard the clip of when BB tells Trump that he is nominating him for the Nobel Peace Prize. and then Trump says, that means so much, especially coming from you. I was listening in public and I laughed so hard people were looking at me.

38:00It's like,

38:01Jon Favreau:this man, I like just bombed Iran. Indicted by the, Indicted by the ICC, indicted war criminal, has killed at least 55 ,000 people. I don't know why I'm laughing, but it's just so absurd. Like you literally can't believe it. Like there's literally, and by the way, the Nobel committee is like five academics. Yeah. five random Norwegians they're not like political actors which by the way crazy way to decide a peace prize anyway but like that's neither here nor there it's true yeah yeah it's wild

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41:01Speaking of Europe, let's talk about Trump's on-again, off-again trade war. On Saturday, he announced that Europe and Mexico will face 30 % tariffs starting August 1. The Europeans were like, we were negotiating. I don't know what the hell happened. This is after a week where Trump just sent a bunch of letters to different countries informing them of the tax rate we'll be imposing on ourselves when buying their products, including a 50 percent tariff on Brazil. That's because Trump is mad at them for putting fellow coup attempter Jair Bolsonaro on trial. Whether or not Trump actually goes through with all of this, always a mystery.

41:32The tariffs we're currently paying are already higher than they've been in 100 years. Here's what Trump said in the Oval Office on Monday about all of this. you know i watched the show this morning they were talking about well when's he going to make the deal the deals are already made the letters are the deals the deals are made there are no deals to make they would like to do a different kind of a deal and we're always open to talk we are open to talk including to europe the letters are the deals but we're also willing to do more deals if they're willing to talk unless we're not because the letters are deals but they're not deals they're letters does that does that make sense to you yes schrodinger's

42:11Jon Favreau:deal like it's just such nonsense it'd be nice if people just followed up like sir sir what the fuck were you talking about just then it's such a ridiculous fucking thing that we all have to pretend is serious or that just because this is where this is the president united states but it's like he's sending these letters that are basically truth social posts on white house letterhead to countries informing them that um we will be levying attacks again on ourselves for all of their products. And he's just, and he's just shooting. And then there's no rhyme or reason. What's his face? Kevin Hassett, uh, his economic advisor was on TV and, uh, John Carl of ABC was asking him, he's like, so, um, why is he doing all this?

42:54I thought there were going to be deals. And he's like, well, look, he thinks this is, you know, uh, this is good for the United States and United States has been ripped off. And, and this is how he has the authority to do this. It's because of a, it's a national security emergency that we're being ripped off and we need to have these supply chains in the United States. And then John's like, okay, well then what about Brazil? Because he said that was just because of Bolsonaro and the trial. And he's like, like I said, like most countries, most countries, it's overall, it's about fairness. And he's like, but that has nothing to do with anything.

43:22Jon Favreau:Just to hammer home your point about the seriousness of these letters, like the one to the president of Bosnia, Herzegovina, misgendered the president. So not a good start. But yeah, I think I'm glad you brought up the Brazil example, because that one to me, I think kind of like epitomizes the absurdity of the whole process because the initial Liberation Day tariffs were just based on the US trade deficit with all these countries, right? Like Trump thinks trade deficits are bad. If we buy more stuff from a country than we sell to them, we're getting ripped off and we're mad about that and we're angry.

43:52Jon Favreau:But the United States hasn't had a trade deficit with Brazil since 2007. We did the current, the USTR, the United States Trade Representative website right now today says we did 92 billion in trade with Brazil in 2024, that the U.S. trade surplus with Brazil is$7.4 billion. But like you said, we're going to slap a 50 % tariff on Brazil because the former right-wing president is being prosecuted for trying to overthrow the current democratically elected government? We have a free trade deal passed by Congress in place with South Korea. Free trade. That means no tariffs, no tax on imports, exports, going either way.

44:30And he's slapping a tariff on South Korea. Why? We don't know.

44:34Jon Favreau:And just imagine you're them. You're like, what do I do with this? What do we do? And again, you justify these tariffs by claiming under this law, AIPA, that there is a national security emergency that necessitates this tariff. So the national security emergency in the case of Brazil is that we don't like how Brazilian courts are prosecuting a case. So here's my question. We are heading towards a situation where we might not have like like liberation day level tariffs, but pretty close in most of these countries now, if we're doing 50 % in Brazil and 30 % in the EU and all this kind of shit. So like the markets are pretty calm.

45:11What do you think's going on there?

45:13Jon Favreau:Yeah, they're just like ripping lines of taco. Like they just, they don't think like, I think they think Trump likes the leverage of tariffs. I think he likes getting to announce stuff. I think he likes looking like he's taking action, but they don't think he's really going to do it. I think the economic and political damage is longer term. So just one more quick thing on the Brazil piece. The thing we all agree on in Washington, right, is that China is the real threat. So one thing China buys from us in huge numbers is soybeans. We're talking like$15,$17 billion per year. But after the 2018 U.S.-China trade war, China started looking to Brazil for soybeans.

45:51Jon Favreau:Since then, that relationship has only increased. So in practice, our sheriff policy has hurt farmers in the U.S. while driving China closer to the biggest country in South America. What are we doing? What is the point of this? It really is he likes having the power. Like when he was saying that line in April and May about like, you know, I can charge what I want. We're the world's store. Like we set the prices. He likes the idea that he is, at least in his mind, running the world and that United States, because we're the biggest economy in the world, we have leverage over these other countries and can treat them however we want.

46:28Though he's still not understanding that, again, we are paying these taxes and American companies are either eating the tariffs or passing them on in terms – for higher prices for consumers. And because this hasn't hit yet, because the tariffs, the cost of the tariffs really haven't factored into the economic numbers that we're getting just yet. But they will. They will eventually. Especially if he goes through with this August 1st deadline, which who knows. And then, you know, then what he's going to be left with is, of course, saying this has nothing to do with the tariffs. It's Jerome Powell's fault.

47:05He should be cutting interest rates.

47:07Jon Favreau:Exactly. Exactly. And I think the markets are hoping that will happen. But they don't want Jerome Powell fired, but they do want a rate cut. And the kind of signal to the world is the way you get a deal is you wait until Eric Trump visits. And then you announce a$1.5 billion luxury golf and residential development project like Vietnam did. Yes. And then things work out. Yeah. It definitely – I mean, there's the personal corruption. There's the I want them to change a policy on X, Y, or Z. He's like pissed at the EU over some of their digital laws. that, you know, like he's just, it's a total shakedown and he just wants to be in control.

47:42Yeah. But at some point, if he keeps backing off the threats, these countries are going to be like, why would I negotiate? Who the fuck cares? This guy just keeps backing off. So it's like, it's not even a good negotiating stance from Donald Trump's perspective.

47:54Jon Favreau:Right. And a lot of these countries are better positioned now to respond than they were in the first Trump term. For example, in 2024, the EU put in place a mechanism that would allow them to respond to like coercive economic behavior. And they did this because of Trump's tariffs and because of shit that China was pulling on various countries. Like if you like, if you like recognize the existence of Taiwan, for example, and you're like Lithuania, like a tiny little country, they'll just hammer you. So now they have this way of kind of end running the WTO process to leverage their own kind of retaliatory economic policies if we fuck with them.

48:32Jon Favreau:And so like, it's kind of a ticking time bomb. Yeah, well, we'll see what happens August 1st. So in the midst of Trump's worst news cycle in recent memory, guess who popped his head up to give Fox News something else to talk about? Elmo. That also is true. Google it. Yeah, someone hacked Elmo's account. It's really, it's troubling. Wild. No, no, it's Joe Biden, a man who always has the most exquisite timing. The former president decided that now is the perfect time to finally address Republicans' investigation into his administration's use of the auto pen. So he granted a rare interview with The New York Times where he said that he, quote, made every decision, end quote, about his widespread pardons and clemency.

49:14And that the only reason the auto pen was used to execute them was because, quote, there was a lot of them, which is standard practice at the White House when signing hundreds of documents. The interview was part of a larger Times investigation into Biden's use of the auto pen, which also found that Biden approved clemency actions for groups of people rather than individuals. Another common White House practice. What do you think of Biden's decision to do the interview? And more importantly, the substance of what he said about the pardons in the auto pen?

49:42Jon Favreau:I'm not ready to not be mad about the timing quite yet. Okay, reading the story, it seemed like someone leaked the Times a bunch of emails, right, that they somehow got about the decision-making process within the Biden White House. And they probably went to the Biden team and was like, we're going to run something on this with or without your comment. And so Joe Biden jumped on the phone with them. And Nira had testified. Nira Tanden. Nira Tanden had testified about Autopenn, right? So it was out in – that was like two weeks ago. I can't remember. But anyway, it's been out there, right, like the Autopenn stuff.

50:14So the Biden's folks who don't like him to do any interviews with anyone just decided, OK, I guess you can jump in on this.

50:23Jon Favreau:Yeah. Does no one just say, hey, you know what, guys? It seems like Trump's having the worst week or two of his political career since January 6th, at least. Maybe we just punt on this or we tell the Times we'll take care of you down the road. Like the timing was so insanely fucking unhelpful. So frustrating. It's like, do you see in that Tyler Pager's new book and Josh Dossie about the 2024 election? They called Biden for an interview because they got his, like Tyler got a hold of his cell and then they called him and got him to talk a little bit. And then Biden's staff was so mad that they changed his cell number.

51:00Jon Favreau:They called him and he was like, Biden's like, I'm getting on a plane. He's like, Jill, yell choo-choo. Do the whistle noise. Yeah, it was crazy. It was so funny that they changed his number and they screamed to these reporters. So who knows how the decision was made? Okay, sorry. We'll get back to the substance. I mean, like, there's a couple different buckets of issues. Like, we've expressed frustration on past episodes about the Biden's pardons of his own family and the messages sent and how it made Democrats look like hypocrites. And how they were, like, kind of some, you know, perceived enemies of Trump who got pardons but not others.

51:34Jon Favreau:And it seemed unfair. But that's kind of like a separate bucket, right? Like we don't need to revisit that unless you want to. But the allegation here is the Republicans are making is that he was essentially brain dead and that he doesn't know who he pardoned and his rogue staff was really running the country. And I just I just think that's ridiculous. Well, and let's be clear, the pardons that they care about. Right. The part I care about is Hunter, Liz Cheney, the preemptive pardons for the January six people. Yeah. They're pissed about those because they want to go after those people. Yes. And so it's clearly an effort to undo like clemency decisions about Trump's political enemies.

52:11Jon Favreau:Frankly, the fact that Republicans are doing this kind of validates what Joe Biden did in the first place. Yes. Right. But, you know, you're also seeing Republicans like try to make a big deal out of this idea that Biden signed off on categories of people to pardon and not every individual. And that is dumb. I've not personally talked to someone who handled the pardon process, but like, I think it's pretty standard to say I'm reducing the sentences of nonviolent marijuana offenders through this time period. You're not going to have Joe Biden read through a list of names of people he's never heard of before and like check them off.

52:44Yeah, nor sign every single document for all those. That is the perfect case for an auto pen. Yes. Right. When you have like a thousand, let's say, low level offenders that you're pardoning. Yeah, of course. Yes.

52:56Jon Favreau:Now, the kicker on the New York Times story was that Hunter's pardon was the only one that Joe Biden signed with his own hand during that kind of period. That was not the best detail, I guess, would be my take. Well, I'll make sure that one you do by hand, for sure. Yeah. And take care of it. That's a tough one. I do hope, like, are reporters digging into how often and in, like, kind of what use cases Trump uses the auto pen? It's been reported that he has used it, like, all the time. Yeah. Not like, but like as every single president does use an auto pen. It's such a weird scandal to like those of us who've been in government.

53:32Like forget even about before we got to the White House, like in the Senate office with Obama, there was an auto pen. There was every, like they all use auto pens.

53:39Jon Favreau:Yes. There's a ton of shit to sign. There's constituent mail. There's everything like no politician has the time to fucking sit there and sign everything, especially if you're the president of the United States. Yeah. It's absurd. It's not like 1953. 83. We're not like banks aren't comparing signature records on your checks. Like I draw a fucking circle on the receipt thing. Yeah. One squiggly line is Jon Favreau. It's so stupid. And listeners probably be like, okay, you're bulletling. This is the presidency we're talking about. Again, like you're like, you're doing like millions of executive orders and all these like Trump, the difference between Trump, I guess, and previous presidents is that he views every executive order or document he signs as a press event.

54:19Jon Favreau:And so he does it in front of the cameras This time around, yeah. Right, this time around, but not last time. Right.

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56:14All right, let's end on the latest news on deportations. On Saturday, Ron DeSantis finally allowed elected officials to inspect the new Florida detention center that he and Trump call Alligator Alcatraz. But this was only after the lawmakers sued DeSantis for blocking access. The tour was heavily restricted. They weren't allowed to speak with detainees or examine any occupied cells up close. But the lawmakers described what they saw as, quote, vile, inhumane, gross, and likened it to an internment camp. Democratic Congressman Maxwell Frost said he He saw 32 people per cage and heard people yelling, help me, help me.

56:50He heard someone else yell, I'm a U.S. citizen. Sure enough, the Miami Herald reported that over 250 people being held at the facility have no criminal record. There's about 900 people right now, 250 with no criminal record. I think there was another 250 to 300 who their criminal record is like traffic violations, lower level crimes. And then a third that are who the Department of Homeland Security and ICE and Florida officials say they're going after the worst of the worst people with violent crimes. So one lawyer said her client is a dreamer with legal status. Could not believe when she heard the news that her client was an alligator Alcatraz because she's like this person is a DACA recipient.

57:35They have legal status. Been here for years and years and years. Shocked that they ended up there. Other lawyers said they can't get access to their clients. And when they call, they get like a runaround and no one is like telling them how to talk to their clients. Family members say their loved ones report power outages, sweltering hot conditions, broken toilets, feces all over the place, worms in the food, trouble getting medication, not being able to take showers. Awful. I don't know. What has your reaction been to the reports coming out of this place from now elected officials, lawyers, journalists, family members?

58:07Jon Favreau:Yeah, I mean, it is awful. but it's also not surprising. I mean, I think they built Alligator Alcatraz in like eight days. Yeah. And like you said, I mean, 250 people out of 700 have no criminal conviction or charges. Like these are not the worst of the worst. And like, look, Trump was like kind of goofing around when he talked about how like you have to learn to run in a zigzag if you escape from Alligator Alcatraz because alligators are going to eat you. But like we are talking about like killing people who did nothing wrong except for like maybe overstay a visa or, you know, at worst, or American citizens who got wrongly swept up.

58:39Jon Favreau:I mean, it's just, this is a facility. It's not a facility, it's tents and trailers. Yep. It's people in cages that look like dog kennels. You go five days without showering, there's toilets are overflowing. Like it's in the Florida Everglades. Can you imagine what it is like on July 14th? So hot, swampy, like there's mosquitoes everywhere. It sounds like hell on earth. I saw that, you know, our pal Jesse Waters and the Five, they were like making fun of the complaints about mosquitoes. They're like, oh, no, mosquitoes are biting. Google this. There's reporters, like local reporters, television reporters in Florida who've been just near the facility, right?

59:20Like not even inside. And they can't even speak in their live hits because the mosquitoes are in their mouth. And this reporter's like – Torture. He's like, he's wearing this hood and this heavy jacket. And he's like, you're probably wondering why I'm wearing this heavy jacket and this hood in 90 degree weather here. It's because I can't walk without getting just eaten alive by mosquitoes. And that's just the mosquitoes. And then there's the worms and the food and the feces and the toilets that aren't working and the showers that aren't working, the power outages. I mean, it is fucking disgusting.

59:52Debbie Wasserman Schultz, she was one of the lawmakers who went. She was like, look, there's another immigration detention center in Miami-Dade that like the people being held there can walk from building to building. They're like allowed to go outside. There's like better meals. It's not like this has this is not like what detention centers are supposed to be.

1:00:10Jon Favreau:It doesn't need to be this way. And what happens when there's a storm or a hurricane? You know, it's like it's crazy. And like the lawyers can't get in touch with these people. You're just getting lost in this system that is like Kafkaesque by design. And this is, you know, this is the ghost of Christmas future. I mean, like Kristi Noem says she's in touch with five Republican governors about building facilities like this. This is what we should expect will be done with the billions and billions of dollars in ICE funding that was just passed by Congress. And by the way, I'm not like seeing a lot of coverage of plans to triple resources for the immigration court system or hire a bunch of immigration judges to actually speed up the process.

1:00:46Jon Favreau:It's just like the plan is to build the shittiest prisons in the world, get a bunch of private prison companies paid in the process, and then let people rot. Well, and so here's what a lot of these immigration lawyers are concerned about, and this is what they think they're doing, which is make the condition so horrible that they are forcing people who go there to agree to self-deport or to give up their asylum claims because you can, like, sign a document and say, like, all right, I'm out. And then that's how they just get people out. So that's how they clear the backlog. Instead of actually hiring more judges to hear these people's asylum claims, they're just putting them in horrible conditions to force them out of the country.

1:01:23Stephen Miller also like went on Fox and encouraged other red states like Krasunemis to build their own. And of course, if you're a red state and you're like some politicians like fucking the attorney general in Florida, whose brainchild this was, Uthmeyer, you get attention, right? Like you do this, you become a star, it helps your political career. And so, of course, other red states are going to do this. And the other challenge now is this is in a legal gray area because it is when ICE and DHS are called for comment about this shit, they're like, well, we're not running this. This is the state of Florida.

1:01:57And so ICE is like, oh, there's no federal oversight, even though they're getting federal money from the – they're going to be able to get reimbursed and get more federal money from the bill. So they get federal money to do this. But then the federal government and ICE gets to say, we don't know. We don't know what's going on there. And that's why some of these lawyers can't even get access to their clients.

1:02:15Jon Favreau:I think this has kind of always been part of kind of the big picture plan was to almost build a parallel process. Yep. Outside of the traditional immigration structures and laws and processes that demand accountability or have a little bit of oversight and just do shit like this. Yeah. There was also some deportation news here in California over the weekend. On Friday, a federal judge in Los Angeles temporarily blocked federal agents from using racial profiling to carry out indiscriminate immigration arrests in California. The judge found that a person's race, language, job or location does not constitute, quote, reasonable suspicion and therefore violates the Fourth Amendment, which protects people against unreasonable search and seizure.

1:02:55The judge also issued a separate ruling that bars the federal government from restricting attorney access at Los Angeles deportation facilities. Stephen Miller took the news in stride by accusing the judge of waging an insurrection against the United States. Real chill. But J.D. Vance apparently thinks that Southern California is still safe enough for a family vacation. He spent the weekend here at Disneyland where he was booed by other people at the park, mostly over deportations. In fairness to J.D., though, he did gift all of us this incredibly entertaining video of him attempting to run.

1:03:37Do you think that was his first time running? Did he have weights in his shoes?

1:03:44Jon Favreau:I can't wait till he issues some like 2 ,000 word outraged self-righteous tweet about, I was going to check on my child. Yeah, well, he could have got to the kid faster if he didn't run like that. It's also, you know, I think our friend Peter Hamby has long clocked. The JD just has a really weird kind of walk motion. It's sort of like a hand forward kind of goofy. And also anytime the guy is out of a suit, it's like, what is he? His fashion sense. Yeah. Very troubling. Yeah, I think you said he dresses like he's going to a club in 2008. But in like Orlando. Yes, that is exactly right. This is exactly right.

1:04:29Jon Favreau:He fucking sucks. That guy is so annoying. He's such a hypocritical prick. And yet, you know what? As a general matter, do I think it's, I don't know. It'll probably just make him dig in further. I don't care. Let's make fun of him. He got booed at Disneyland. Newsom tweeted like, oh, I hope you're enjoying your vacation. The families you're ripping apart aren't. And then like Stephen Miller went in on Newsom and was like, the governor of California thinks the only way you can staff Disneyland is with mass migration. I was just like, what? What? Talking about Mickey? Minnie? And then J.D. Vance responded to Newsom and just said, thanks.

1:05:07He's such a loser.

1:05:08Jon Favreau:I mean, and the White House communications director said something really horrible and personal about Gavin Newsom. It's shocking. But yeah, look, I don't know. He's such an asshole. I'm glad, first of all, shout out to Gavin's, we're talking to him tomorrow for his podcast. I don't know if we're supposed to announce that or not, but we just did. but I would say this to his face because I really believe it. His team's social media presence and like aggressiveness and punching has been very fun to watch the last six months or so. Yeah, it's been great. Yeah. It's like they're really going after it and it's not like the sometimes cheesy, cringy DNC version.

1:05:42Right. It's like they're doing some funny stuff.

1:05:43Jon Favreau:Yeah, it's not corny. It's not, yeah, no, it's just fun. They're just taking shots. Also, Democrats have gotten better. I'll say that the Democrats' account has gotten better over the last couple of weeks. Well, they're just taking a page from Trump's book, right? They're being a little inflammatory. They're getting attention. They're picking fights, like all the things it takes to go viral. I thought, you know, Dan Pfeiffer's conversation, Dan Pfeiffer, Dan's conversation with Mark Cuban about all of this. I thought it was really smart over the weekend. Very smart. What do you make of the immigration rulings we got and Miller's response?

1:06:10Like it is, you know, I took it as some good news, but of course, you know, they're going to appeal it. So who knows?

1:06:16Jon Favreau:Yeah. I mean, I just think what people like we live in L.A. And I think what people need to understand about what this, what ICE is doing is just terrorizing communities all across California, especially in Los Angeles. Like the parks near my house are empty because, you know, there used to be lots of Latino families there. And like they're not, a lot of them were citizens. A lot of them were, you know, had green cards. But now people are just scared to go out in public because there might be an ICE raid. And I think maybe this is popular with like 20 % of the country, but like normie Republicans even are saying this is not what I voted for.

1:06:52Jon Favreau:Like Joe Rogan, Theo Vaughn, Andrew Schultz are like we voted to get criminals out of the country, not people who have been here for 20 years who are working really hard. you for fun like to listen to um debates that uh alex jones has moderates with with nick fuentes um in my spare time on yesterday on sunday beautiful day out i sat outside and i listened to dasha burns interview with tom homan uh on the playbook podcast that's mean to you why'd you do that i don't know because i you know i was like what what is tom home and he's such a fucking liar his his whole response to her about all this was there is no profiling what happens is we're going after the worst of the worst.

1:07:31We have lists of people that we're going after. And if while we're going after those people, we happen to see other immigrants who are here without status who are undocumented, of course, we're going to scoop them up too. But we're not intentionally going after people who aren't the worst of the worst. We're starting with the worst of the worst. And I'm like, it's just like, it's not true. Like local officials don't believe that's true. The courts don't believe that's true. The videos that people are seeing with their own fucking eyes don't believe that's true when ICE officers are like, oh, I got a lot today.

1:08:00I hit the number today. Trump's really driving us. Stephen Miller's really driving us on how to get these deportations. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about, man?

1:08:07Jon Favreau:This is entirely happening because Stephen Miller shouted at people at ICE and told them they need to get rid of more migrants. I don't understand it. Look, this is Stephen Miller's project. It's the only thing he's passionate about. So I understand why the administration is doing it. Politically, I actually think it's stupid. I don't think anyone really wants this. I think Trump could be going to the border saying, I closed it down what a great success I am and then just slowly methodically actually get out criminals without you know collapsing industries and like chasing people through fields at farms in California I'm going to racially profile for a second and I'm going to say that Tom Homan is a thug who's like a wannabe like Tony Soprano community theater impersonator have you seen him like whenever he goes to uh does a little press conference he walks out and he pops out his sleeve and he starts twisting his fucking pinky ring he um he's a big tough guy he is and he listening to him yesterday i was like oh he really believes he like he has internalized all of this stuff yeah they all believe it you know he really thinks like you don't know what i've seen in my career and some of the violence and whatever it's like i'm sure i'm sure there are some undocumented immigrants here just like there are american citizens who've committed horrible fucking crimes yep and should be held accountable 100 but like that is not what we're all seeing on these videos it just it just doesn't justify doing anything one last thing wasn't sure where to put this, but Trump also posted the following on Saturday morning, bright and early, quote, because of the fact that Rosie O'Donnell is not in the best interests of our great country, I am giving serious consideration to taking away her citizenship.

1:09:34She is a threat to humanity and should remain in the wonderful country of Ireland if they want her. Is that how citizenship works, Tommy? You lose your citizenship if the president doesn't like you?

1:09:46Jon Favreau:Imagine you're Rosie O'Donnell in 2006 you pick a fight with Donald Trump on the view now this guy is the president and he's like it's like that domino meme you criticize his handling of that year's like miss USA pageant and all of a sudden this man's like trying to strip your citizenship like it it's all it's like there's something that's funny about it's almost like OG Trump right like this was his original kind of bit was like picking fights with her and being just a prick but like It is fascism to just strip citizenship from people. It's funny and crazy, but underlying it is a very dangerous project that they are engaged in.

1:10:26And the announcement the other week that they are, I think you and Lovett talked about it on the pod, kicking up the denaturalization process. Now, denaturalization, even if you try to denaturalize someone, you can only denaturalize someone who was an immigrant and became a citizen here. This is like, oh, this is an American citizen who was born here. And now he's just trying to denaturalize Rosie O'Donnell. And whether he's joking or not, he's at least putting out there that I'm the president and I get to decide who is a citizen and who is it.

1:10:56Jon Favreau:And I think you called her a threat to humanity, which means I'm going to kill you as far as I can tell. I mean, also, she moved to Ireland in part because she is a non-binary child. And I think as a completely justified concern about this administration's policies and the way that they are not just trying to target her child legally, but also constantly demagogue these kids in the cruelest way possible. Like the president of the United States is the meanest bully possible. And he's like punches down at like kids, like trans athletes in high school. And I don't think this is just a Trump thing.

1:11:29Like we know it's Stephen Miller. I think J.D. Like this project where the federal government gets to define who is an American and who isn't, right? Like for a long time, Trumpy people and Republicans have tried to say like, oh, we're patriotic. You're not whatever. But this project, which is actually like we get to decide who's a citizen and who should stay and who should leave. So this was sort of went unnoticed. But J.D. Vance, he gave a speech at the Claremont Institute on July 5th out here, right? Very conservative think tank. Super right wing, yeah. And in that speech, I guess because it was like a day after July 4th, this was on his mind.

1:12:05He said, and I saw this at Talking Points Memo reported on this. He said, identifying America just with agreeing with the principles, let's say, of the Declaration of Independence. That's a definition that would include hundreds of millions, maybe billions of foreign citizens who agree with the principles of the Declaration. But conceiving American citizenship purely as an idea would reject a lot of people that the ADL, the Anti-Defamation League, would label as domestic extremists, even though those very Americans had their ancestors fight in the Civil War. so this is jd vance now saying the idea that we're all created equal everyone's endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights that the idea america is an idea and he alluded to this in his convention speech too the whole america is an idea and its principles and like everyone who wants to believe in american ideals has a chance to become a citizen they don't like this and you're seeing this a lot more now that they're like oh the declaration of independence and the whole thing that we're all created equal this is not this is not what America is supposed to be.

1:13:04America is blood and soil and your ancestors. And, you know, just because your relatives were Confederates and stuff like that, like just because they didn't believe in equality, that doesn't mean that they don't have a right to this land. I mean, it's an extremely dangerous idea that has been circulating on the far, far right for a while now and now is being given voice by the vice president of the United States, the president who's threatening to fucking revoke Rosie O'Donnell's citizenship, and Stephen Miller, who's been doing this project his whole life.

1:13:32Jon Favreau:And they're all into this like goofball Curtis Yardin who believes we need to return to a monarchy because that'll end well. Yeah. I mean, they've been doing this kind of revisionist history project for a while. I mean, remember after the 1619 project came out from New York Times, they lost their minds and they created this thing called the 1776 Commission, which put forward a more patriotic view of history, America's founding. And it is North Korea's You know, like every like government, every country tells its own story. You know, I don't mean to overstate it, but, you know, the blood and soil nationalism is a dangerous, dangerous game.

1:14:12And it is the center of the authoritarian project, right, that they have in this country. And then other countries too, which is like, you know, there's racism, there's xenophobia, there's sexism, there's all of it. But at the core, it's if you're on our team and you're loyal to us, you can stay. If you're not, if you challenge us, you have to go.

1:14:33Jon Favreau:Yeah. And also, if you look like us, you're welcome. And if you don't, you got to leave, even if you have legal status. I mean, look at all the TPS designations. Like, you know, we're sending people from Haiti back to their country and saying it's safe, but saying it's unsafe for white farmers in South Africa. So they're welcome to this country as refugees. Yeah. So keep running, J.D. Vance. Yeah, he's the worst. He's the worst. There's a new poll out today. they did a Republican primary poll for 2028, Echelon did, and he's running away with it right now. Way, way out there from Ron DeSantis. It's all name ID.

1:15:06Name ID, but crush Ron DeSantis.

1:15:08Jon Favreau:What if Don Jr. will take him on? Or Eric went to the FT and floated that he thought he might run for president someday or this family is another political project. Good for you, Eric. Good for you. Best of luck. All right, one quick note before we go. Last week, Vote Save America launched a brand new pilot program to recruit candidates in Arizona, North Carolina, and Texas. We're talking school board, city council, state legislature. These are local races that, first of all, a lot of them, there's not a Democratic candidate. And so, you know, you can't win if you don't run. So we need to fill those slots with Democratic candidates.

1:15:38And this is the way to win local and state races to like build long-term Democratic power, especially in these purple states. And we're kicking things. First of all, we have been overwhelmed. It's incredible. With the response. It's amazing. Like you and I, we never thought like our team at Vote Save America, you know, conceived of this and they've done such a great job but um i i didn't think the response would be

1:15:59Jon Favreau:this great it's no wild it's extraordinary and well it tells you there's a lot of like amazing people who listen to this show who uh have just done a lot and gotten really politically engaged over the years and are excited to take that next step and thank you for considering that there's room for more there's room for a lot more way more we need to run uh a democrat in every race at every level because that's how you build power at the local level and that's how you build a bench for the party for the long term and kind of groom the next generation of leaders. And VSA is doing a live call this Wednesday, July 16th to sort of kick things off.

1:16:32And I guess you're joining, right? I'll be there. I can't wait. Perfect. So if you've even thought about running or even if you haven't, but now you're interested, this is where to start. Sign up for the kickoff call and learn more at votesaveamerica.com slash run paid for by votesaveamerica. You can learn more at votesaveamerica.com. And this ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. All right, that is our show for today. Dan's back from vacation and he and I will be back in your feed on Friday. See you then. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free or get access to our subscriber Discord and exclusive podcasts, consider joining our Friends of the Pod community at crooked.com slash friends or subscribe on Apple Podcasts directly from the Pod Save America feed.

1:17:13Also, please consider leaving us a review to help boost this episode and everything we do here at Crooked. Pod Save America is a Kruget Media production. Our producers are David Toledo, Emma Illich Frank, and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reid Churlin is our executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant.

1:17:44Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellaviv, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

1:18:07Hey, it's John. Last year, 2 ,500 people joined us at Crooked Con for conversations with some of the smartest organizers, least annoying politicians, and most interesting voices in politics about how to fix this mess. We're doing it again November 5th through the 7th in Washington, D.C. with even more podcast panels and workshops. Plus, there will be drinks, which we'll need after the midterms, no matter which way they go. Get your tickets at CrookedCon.com, where we'll also announce the lineup. If you're a Friends of the Pod subscriber, a limited number of discounted tickets are still available.

1:18:37Get them before they run out. See you at CrookedCon.

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