1070: President of Peace Invades Chicago (feat. JB Pritzker)

28:08cities as training rounds for the troops that he expects to fight wars overseas. Yeah, and I mean, we'll see - This is how you get the Navy SEALs kicking on the doors of Antifa HQ. Right, right, Antifa HQ, right, which is again let us know where it is you see the popes involved woke marx's pope i mean you don't come to his city he's he's a chicagoan i love our american pope yeah i thought i loved pope francis is my favorite pope i think because you know jesuit big jesuit guy but um our american pope from chicago who is now and i guess he's pushing the bishop the bishops to make like a really clear moral statement on this on what's happening in the united states around immigration because he wants like unity.

28:50And so he wants all the bishops on the same page, which I think is a good move. But he has apparently, you know, he had some advocates and activists, immigration activists visit him, I believe from Texas, and was quite moved by some of these stories and like emotionally moved. And I think that it's good to see that the Pope is getting involved in this. It's crazy that the Pope has to get involved in this, but it's good to see it. All right. So Austin just sent us this story. From Axios, President Trump is temporarily barred from sending the National Guard to Illinois to aid his immigration crackdown after a federal judge in part granted the state a temporary restraining order against the deployment.

29:32So there you go. That's great news. One other major front in the war against America's enemies, the political prosecutions of people the president doesn't like. News broke right before we started recording that a grand jury in the Eastern District of Virginia has indicted New York Attorney General Tish James for one count of bank fraud and one count related to false statements. All right, so this was related to another alleged mortgage fraud case, Dan, that the mortgage fraud czar Bill Pulte has been pushing for quite some time. And once again, there was reporting leading up to this that the all the attorneys, all the prosecutors who work in the Eastern District of Virginia didn't really see a case here, didn't think there was evidence for a case, didn't think there was evidence that she broke any laws.

30:20And so when Lindsey Halligan, Donald Trump's random staffer, who had never prosecuted a case before, was installed, and then she indicted Comey, she went after Letitia James as well and apparently has won an indictment from a grand jury on two charges. How strong or weak do you think this case is against Letitia James? I think the fact that Lindsey Halligan presented the indictment herself suggests that no actual qualified prosecutor in the office is willing to do so. So that says a lot about it. It's also, you know it's weak because one of the reasons Trump fired the original U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia was because he and his staff did not think there was a case you could bring here.

31:01And the third reason why we also know it's a bad case is that people are almost never, ever prosecuted for making this mistake. It is almost always handled civilly. The only time it's ever done criminally is if it has seemed to be part of a pattern where someone has done it many times or it's part of – or it's like an obvious move where they like use a fake name or a fake – or a disguise or something like that. Like this is – something happens all the time. We know it happens all the time. It happens to a lot of people in the Trump administration because of the pro-public reporting that looked at it.

31:30So this is absurd. But this is what Trump wants. He wants another way he can go and say he went after his enemies. and everyone else on that list should be concerned because even if they did not commit the fake crime in the Eastern District of Virginia, Trump will just fire the US attorney wherever he wants to bring the case, install some other crony there and do this same thing. Like this is where we are as a country now. This one seems even worse when you like look into it because it's saying that she, you know, she allegedly tried to declare somewhere her primary residence that wasn't so she could, you know, get a more favorable loan.

32:08But she, in this case, it was like one document that a third party checked a box that said primary residence, but in another email, she wrote, this will not be my primary residence very clearly. And on another form, she said, this will not be my primary residence. So then you'd have to believe that she tried to lie about this, but then told the truth about it as well. Like that is just fucking insane. This happens all the time. This was a big thing in politics in the early 2000s where members of Congress who also owned homes in D.C. would often check a box that said they wanted to claim the homestead exemption, and then people would get hammered in their districts for claiming that they live in D.C.

32:51but it's because the settlement, the people who prepare the papers just fill it out that way and then everyone just signs it, right? Without actually looking at it, this is exactly what happened in this case. There was reporting in the Washington Post that the house was, I believe this residence was bought for her niece. Her niece actually testified to the grand jury and reportedly gave testimony that was quite exculpatory of Letitia James, yet they proceeded anyway. It does seem like the indictment now, they're saying that the problem is that it's a rental property. It was always meant as a rental property for her niece.

33:24And so she couldn't, she shouldn't, she shouldn't have even said it was her second home, her second property because. Because then it's an investment property, which is a different thing. This stuff happens all the time. These are not crimes. They are crimes that have to get addressed. They are addressed with the bank. They are addressed civilly. This is not how it happens. This is just. And it also, it always like drives me nuts even going into the details of the case because it's so fucking, like it's a political prosecution. Yeah. That career attorneys from Republicans and Democrats appointed by Republicans and Democrats over the years all said, no, this is crazy too.

34:00And then fucking Lindsey Halligan comes in after Donald Trump said to Pam Bondi, what's taken so long? Go prosecute my enemies. And they did. And you don't have to be a fucking genius to figure that out. You don't need a law degree. James is in good company. Former FBI director James Comey, who was indicted two weeks ago, was arraigned in federal court in Alexandria on Wednesday morning. He pleaded not guilty and his lawyers indicated that they will seek to have the case thrown out on the grounds that the prosecution is vindictive and selective. It is, of course, both. Apparently, Lindsay Halligan in this one brought in a prosecutor from North Carolina to help her with the case because they couldn't find anyone in the Eastern District who would do it.

34:40I don't know if the jurors will even know about that or the judge will, but it doesn't bode well for their case, I think. Yeah, you're right. I have no idea if that's something that a jury will ever know about, but it just says how weak the case is. There's plenty of ambitious Republican career prosecutors who have eyes on bigger jobs, who if there was a real case here and they would prosecute it. The problem is there is no real case and they care about their reputation and their ethics and so they're not going to do it. Yeah. Wall Street Journal had an amazing report on Wednesday that the famous Truth Social post that Trump addressed to Pam, which said, you know, delays in charging Comey were killing our reputation and credibility, was in fact meant to be a DM.

35:29I feel vindicated. Me too. Yes. Although I would, this is what happened. I was, we were just hanging out with the neighbors. All the kids were there. One of my neighbors is Tommy. And I saw the news broke and I was like, oh my, oh my God. I think this was supposed to be, I think this was supposed to be a DM. And he's like, no, that's, there's no way that was a DM. He would, he, you know, Trump, he would just say Pam in a truth social post. And I was like, you know what? You're right. That's crazy to think that. so i did give up pretty soon but i mean like anything that's possible with trump but it just i know caring about the information security habits of high government officials is like very 2016 but it is fucking bananas that trump communicates with his cabinet through direct messaging on his janky social media site i'm surprised like i didn't he might as well bcc every foreign intelligence agency in the world i mean like how i think how many other dms there Do you think this is just the first time he decided to DM someone was about a political prosecution?

36:35He's just like, I got to communicate about this Watergate-level crime and abuse of power. Why don't I do it by DM? I'll do my first DM? No. He must be DMing people all the time, which we know he was DMing people on Twitter because that was a part of the Jack Smith investigation was subpoenaing his DMs. It's funny, though, that you went to the OPSEC thing because my first reaction was there's not a lot that can shock me about Donald Trump. but the fact that he knows how to use the direct message function on his jinky platform. He doesn't, obviously. Yes. I mean, not well, not well, but at least he knows.

37:10I mean, that's the one thing you can't do is do it publicly. Why isn't he texting Pam Bondi? Why isn't he calling Pam Bondi? He has an entire military unit whose job it is to connect him on the phone with people no matter where he is. I don't understand it. It is just it is the classic Stringer Bell. Don't take notes on a motherfucking criminal conspiracy that he wrote this down and then set it out publicly by accident. The report has officials saying that Trump was, quote, surprised to learn it was public. I bet he was. And notes that, quote, Bondi grew upset and called White House aides and Trump, who then agreed to ascend a second post praising Bondi as doing a great job.

37:51That's what I knew it was a DM was when he said the second post. That was my that seemed definitely like, oh, I got to clean up here. Also notable that the attorney general of the United States did not seem upset that the president accidentally publicly directed her to prosecute his enemies, but that he didn't seem to think she was doing a great job. Yes. She knows what her job is in the post. And so what she really wanted was a follow-up that said, great job, not the president deciding not to direct her to prosecute his political enemies. I want you to think about how this would have played out differently if he had written a memo or an email to Pam Bondi or an email from Suzy Wiles or Stephen Miller to Pam Bondi that said almost that exact same thing.

38:37And then the New York Times had gotten a hold of it. These days? I don't know. Who knows? I think it would have been, at least in the traditional media world, it would have been 10x the story. Just think about the original perfect phone call to Ukraine. Because Trump was doing crimes all the time, but when they got wind of a secret phone call through, then they reacted that way. Attorney General Loretta Lynch, under the Obama administration, was sitting on a plane in a tarmac while the Hillary Clinton email investigation was going on. and Bill Clinton was on a plane next to her, got off the plane, went onto her plane, said hello, walked off the plane, and it was such a scandal that everyone was calling for her to recuse herself from the whole investigation?

39:28So, yes, and it's a couple important points here. One is Bill Clinton not president at the time. Not president at the time. Like, no influence at all on what was happening. Second, that really is butterfly effect to where we are right now, because that leads to her recusing herself. It leads to Jim Comey sending the insane memo announcing the investigation of Hillary Clinton, which leads to Donald Trump getting elected, which then leads to Jim Comey ending up in a court this week. Wow. Someone should just do a documentary just on that. If you know someone who owns a media company, you should talk to them.

40:05I guess we just did it. There's nothing else to say. That's right. But the fact that that was, oh, my God, it's insane. It's insane. All right. Let's get to the government shutdown, which will be in its 10th day by the time you're hearing this. On Thursday, the Senate voted again on two different versions of a funding bill. Neither of them passed. Democrats are clearly beginning to feel they've got the upper hand because they have a simple message. Republicans won't budge on gutting your health care. Republicans are more all over the place. They're going to fire federal workers. No, they aren't.

40:34They're going to deny back pay to furloughed workers. Maybe not. Trump is talking to Democrats about cutting a deal on health care. No, he isn't. Even on Thursday in that cabinet meeting, Trump tried to say that Republicans were the ones trying to save health care and also tried his tough guy approach once again. Take a listen. We'll be making cuts that will be permanent. And we're only going to cut Democrat programs. I hate to tell you. I guess that makes sense. But we're only cutting Democrat programs. They wanted to do this. So we'll get a little taste of their own medicine. At least one prominent Republican is getting frustrated by this lack of a clear plan.

41:08Here's Marjorie Taylor Greene on CNN on Thursday morning. So you're putting the blame on the leadership of your party? Absolutely. We control the House. We control the Senate. We have the White House. When it comes to hearing from senior citizens or my own friends and neighbors and my own family members and people that voted for me, and they're just saying, Marjorie, we just really want somebody to do something about health insurance premiums. I don't think it's good advice that a government shutdown is going to help Republicans in the midterms. I don't agree with that. I also don't think it's good advice that Republicans ignoring the health insurance crisis is going to be good for midterms.

41:45I actually think that would be very bad for midterms. Yeah. And on that note, are you concerned about the cost of living? Very. That the President Trump said he would lower? Inflation crushed people in the past four and a half years and the costs have not come down. Marjorie Taylor Greene, welcome to the resistance. It's like, what is happening? What a world. that was an out of my experience to that yeah I mean just she was used to run around the hall screaming at Sandy Hook victims and now she is I mean just talking about the cost of living someone tweeted it's just wild seeing her like sitting on a CNN set like this like an animal who like learned to use a knife and a fork

42:33she's just sitting there all nice with wolf blitzer what Just being friendly. I mean, it's truly something. So that's cool, I guess. Yeah. Right? What does it say? We're about to play another clip. But what does it say that you've got Marjorie Taylor Greene now pushing for Republicans to make a deal to extend the ACA subsidies? And then someone who's like a frontliner in a vulnerable seat, Mike Lawler, who's just like, you know, yelling at Hakeem Jeffries. Like, what is going on? I think it's notable that the 10 incumbent House Republicans in toss-up races are to the right of Marjorie Taylor Greene on health care.

43:12Yeah. The politics of these Obamacare tax credits are abysmal for Republicans. Abysmal. Right. So you have the Kaiser Family Foundation poll, which shows that 78 % of people want them extended. That includes, and this is like a truly stunning number, 57 % of self-identified MAGA supporters want them extended. 57%. And it's pretty interesting as to why. Because if you look at the - Isn't it like three quarters of the premium increases are going to hit red states? Well, yes. Because so the Kaiser Family Foundation has been tracking Obamacare approval since the law passed. And it's never been more popular.

43:48Nearly two-thirds of Americans now support it. But what's interesting is that disapproval among Republicans has come down pretty sharply by about 10 points in the last four years. And that lines up pretty closely with the passage of the enhanced premiums in 2021. And the reason why those two things are probably connected is because if you live in a state that did not expand Medicaid, you're going to be more likely to be eligible for these tax credits. And so there's been a huge increase in Obamacare enrollment since the passage of these enhanced tax credits. Most of that is in red states. Like right now, 10 % of the population in Texas and Florida is on the Affordable Care Act.

44:27And so any of these tax credits will cause a massive premium spike that is going to disproportionately hit Republicans in Republican states. Somehow, Marjorie Taylor Greene is the only Republican who gets that because Georgia is a confusing case because they partially expanded Medicaid. But there is a disproportionate number of people who have signed up for the Obamacare since the tax credits in Georgia, too. So her constituents will be hit by this. Do you think that other House Republicans are just they feel like Marjorie Taylor Greene feels, but they just don't want to say anything because they are either thinking that there will be a deal at some point or have like promised Mike Johnson that they wouldn't cause trouble and they'd all stay strong and stay quiet for a while?

45:09I mean, there must be some, right? There has to be. It has to be. Not because you don't have to guess their motivations, but they know how to read polls. I mean, we've talked about the poll from Tony Fabrizio, Trump's pollster, which showed a massive swing in the generic ballot if the Republicans let these tax credits expire. So there have to be a bunch of people who think that, right? There are some of them who are coming up with like fake leaf solutions to try to say they're for something without actually being for something. So there are people who want it. Now there's a huge part of his caucus who are in safe seats, who do not care about anything other than owning the libs, and will let these things expire.

45:48Whether you can actually get a deal that can pass the House is an interesting question, but there are definitely people who agree with her. And the question is, Marjorie Taylor Greene is probably not the best person to create a permission structure for other people, because I think most Republicans hate her too. But it does give some space or room for someone else to come out. I imagine that to get a deal to pass the house, you would need like mostly democratic votes. Yeah. I mean, right. I mean, you're not going to, he's not going to get most of his caucus on board. He's not going to get a majority of his caucus on board.

46:20But would Johnson put a bill on the floor that violates the Hastert rule is the question. The Hastert rule being the rule named after the former speaker of the house in prison for pedophilia. Which is now an issue that Republicans are once again on the wrong side. Yeah, it all comes together. It all comes once again. But that rule says that you cannot bring a bill to the floor that doesn't have a majority of the majority. Interesting. So let's talk about how this might end. Furloughed workers are going to start missing paychecks on Friday. Troops are going to start missing paychecks this Wednesday the 15th.

46:55There's some reporting that that will ultimately get a gang together, bipartisan gang, to figure this all out. though there's also some reporting that even after the missed paychecks, Democrats are planning to stand firm. How are you feeling about this? How do you think this shakes out? I think this, I really have no idea, but I think the shutdown probably either comes to some sort of temporary end next week or it's around for months potentially. Wow. You think it's possible to do months, huh? Well, it's really hard to see what the thing that ends it is. Now, Thune floated today an idea that we'd open the government with a guaranteed vote on these tax credits at some point.

47:42Gallego, I think, just has to be walking by reporters at the time this came up. And he said he would be open to that idea depending on the time, because he wants to make sure that the vote happens, like the vote in the temporary funding bill line up so the Democrats could walk away again if the Republicans didn't fulfill their end of it or whatever else. Right. Because just to remind people again, this is about a seven-day CR, right? Yeah. that we're fighting over. So you could say, I was wondering, apparently Gallego had said this before, something like this before, and there have been no takers, but it does seem like a way for everyone to save face where Republicans can say, okay, well, we didn't negotiate while the government was closed and we just said we'd work with them and promise a vote and then they do the vote and then if Republicans don't provide the votes to extend the tax credit, then, you know, the next, the CR only lasts a week, and then we're just back into the shutdown.

48:37You could do that to get troops paid. The other thing that could happen is in a normal world where the Republicans were not staying out of Washington to avoid voting on the Epstein files, the House would come in, would today be voting on a bill to fund the troops. This happens every single time. And then Democrats have to make a decision, which is, do they vote for that and essentially give up some leverage in the shutdown, but also then take on the political pain of denying pay to the troops. But they can't do that because Mike Johnson won't bring the house back.

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50:50Well, let's talk about how, in case this drags on for quite a while, let's talk about how Democrats are handling the messaging. There have been plenty of standard videos and press conferences of varying quality, but we should note that they are getting quite a bit of views, quite a bit of traction on social media. I think Peter Hamby at Puck had a piece about, and the firm Resonate tracks this, that for once a lot of the Democratic-created content, whether by politicians or influencers or groups or whatever, is just outperforming a lot of the Republican content on social media. is actually shut down content is going quite far.

51:29So that's good. Democrats also seem to be having real luck taking the fight to Republicans in these ambush moments, I guess is what's what we're calling them now that have been happening in the Capitol. And one of them, New York Republican Congressman Mike Lawler confronted Hakeem Jeffries about extending the ACA subsidies. And in another, Arizona Democratic Senators Mark Kelly and Ruben Gallego held a press conference outside Mike Johnson's office to pressure him to swear in newly elected Congresswoman Adelita Grijalva from their state, and Johnson walked into the middle of the press conference.

51:59Here's a taste of how both of those exchanges went. Did you get permission from your boss? Why don't we sign on right now? Is your boss Donald Trump? You can easily extend the ATA right now. Did your boss Donald Trump give you permission? Yes, he is. You're chasing a cloud. You're an embarrassment. You're not going to talk to me and talk over me because you don't want to hear what I have to say. Oh, I'm listening. So why don't you just keep your mouth shut? Oh, is that the way you talk? You showed up. You showed up. And so you voted for this one big ugly bill. I signed on for this. You can extend it right now.

52:27A permanent extension of massive tax breaks for your billionaire donors. Let's be clear. The reason Adelita Grijava is not here is because Mike Johnson wants to do two things. Number one, cover up for pedophiles on the Epstein list. And number two, put his members in a really rough position when it comes to voting and extending these ACA tax credits. This is an excuse so she doesn't sign on to that. This is absurd. This is the longest time the House has been out of session. Do you want me to answer the question? If you ask the question, you'll answer it. You could not actually answer the question.

52:58I'm not blocking her. I just told you. This is the longest time that the House of Representatives has been out of session that's not in a regular August session. This is the longest time it's taken for someone to be sworn in. And it all happens to coincide with the fact that she's going to be the deciding vote on the discharge. Wow. That's democracy for you right there. What do you think? What do you think of how all the messaging is going right now? I think that... we should give Democrats credit here because they have done better than at any point since, and a couple of years now, actually, at actually communicating the message, thinking about how to get their message out, playing the games of the attention economy.

53:39And like, I think it's good. Like, is it perfect? Of course not. Are some of these scenes like really cringy and painful to watch? Absolutely. But they have done much better and we should give them credit for it. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think it's the right look. It is it is good that they made this about health care. As you know, I think they should made it about more. They still still should. But it is clear that health care is, you know, they are right on both the substance and the politics here in health care. I guess what I hadn't anticipated is the notices that are coming out from the insurance companies that are going to let people know that their premiums are going up are a forcing mechanism that I hadn't anticipated would be as powerful as it is, right?

54:21Because I do think that without that, like if they were just arguing about reversing Medicaid cuts that aren't going to take effect for a couple years, I don't know that the fight would be as clearly defined as it is right now. And I think that I think what's making Republicans nervous is those notices as well, too, because this is something they're going to have to deal with very soon. And so it's more of a cliff than another fight over health care might have been. This is the – they were right to make this the fight to pick, I think. I mean, there's a world where possibly they could have stitched together the larger argument you wanted people to make.

54:57But I don't think in this political environment with this caucus, in this media environment, they could have pulled that off. And there was real advantage in having something simple. I actually wish they would ditch all the talk about the big ugly bill and the Medicaid cuts and focus only on this. Because it's one thing – They got you calling it the big, ugly bill, huh? How did it get to you? Because you just need to listen to that clip. It's funny because I've actually been part of presentations where the argument is you should just – there's been this huge debate within the party about what you call it, right?

55:23Do you call it the big, beautiful bill? Do you call it the big, ugly bill? Do you call it the Republican budget plan or whatever else? And then one of the real arguments is you just use the same language that they use so that you're fighting on the same territory and voters know you're talking about the same thing. And so I've been an advocate for using the big, beautiful bill. So I just fucked up is what I'm saying. What do you think would be happening right now if Democrats said, we are not going to vote to fund the government unless we make sure that ICE, federal agents, cannot raid people's homes without a warrant, that they cannot hold American citizens and legal residents for more than two hours, that they cannot use military tactics and military weapons to invade communities and Black Hawk helicopters.

56:12Just like basic constitutional rights, due process, no unreasonable search and seizure, focused on American citizens, legal residents. And all of these videos are out there that are have gone probably more viral than the health care stuff. Of course. Of course. And I'm just like, what do you – because I genuinely don't know, but like what do you think would happen? I think the challenge of that approach is twofold. One is can you keep a caucus that spans from Jared Golden to AOC on board for that? Probably not. Because you have to. Right. That's one. Two is what you – this is a legislative fight, and you need a legislative solution to a legislative fight.

56:55So what – and I spend a lot of time thinking about this. I talk to some people about how you would possibly construct this. Let's say you wanted to – you're going to demand that funding can't go to some of these activities. It's a very hard thing to police. Like you really need a specific – I think in a shutdown fight, a specific legislative vehicle to solve the problem you want solved, right? Whether that is cut Medicaid like New Gingrich wanted, fund a wall like Trump wanted, defund Obamacare like Ted Cruz wanted, or extend these tax cuts like Democrats want. And you could just you could just say ICE loses the extra funding it got in Trump's budget bill.

57:32I think that that's a fight you're not going to win. And unfortunately, and so you're going to have two choices. The government stays closed forever, which eventually will blow back on Democrats, I imagine. Or you're going to reopen the government by having got nothing. Here's my other question. If we win this fight and get the health care, the Affordable Care Act subsidies extended, do you think there is a political benefit? for Democrats in the midterms or even leading up to the midterms? I think that people are thinking about the political benefit of this in a very simplistic, one-dimensional way.

58:11What Democrats needed to do here was to show that they had the strength to fight to lower costs for people. And so if we can actually do that and achieve it in a moment where people are paying attention, and not enough people are paying attention yet, to be clear, but this is a moment where we actually have a chance to look strong and look like we are fighting for people on an issue that nearly 80 % of the country wants. And I think that can have benefits on how people see Democrats. Because the problem we have here is, if you want to understand the difference between 2018 and 2026 right now, is that Trump is just as unpopular as he was at this point in 2017.

58:47He is doing more unpopular stuff, frankly, now than he was doing then. He was above water in the economy back then. He's really far underwater in the economy right now. But the reason why the generic ballot was Democrats plus seven then and Democrats plus three now is because people don't trust us to be an alternative. And so the goal, the political benefit here, if we can pull it off, is that people have a better trust in us to be someone who can fight for them. And when you say people, do you think it helps with our voters, like people who are already Democrats who are just pissed at the Democratic Party?

59:20Or is it, I mean, because we know that like, we know that most of the people who are actually going to be helped by this are Trump voters, or at least 75%, right? And I don't think that they're going to change their opinion of Democrats, even though they got helped by premium increases, though I hope so. Maybe a few will. Maybe it's independents who are just looking for a party that actually is going to fight for something they care about. I think it's a couple of different audiences. But one, this is probably not super connected to how we would do in the midterms, but it has a real chance of improving the Democratic Party's approval rating because more Democrats might like the Democratic Party, which would just be nice.

59:56We can spend less time talking about our brand crisis all the time. But the people who you were looking to see that are the Biden Trump voters. You were looking at the younger voters who supported Trump, whose approval rating of him has dropped significantly. You're looking at Latino voters whose approval rating of Trump has dropped significantly since 2024. And you're looking at a sort of a wider swath of working class non-white voters, right? All the groups that Trump made gains with, many of whom voted for Biden in 2020, and even if they didn't vote in 2020, probably would have picked Biden if they had.

1:00:31Those are the voters that we have to, that we have a chance to make inroads with. And that's who we need to sell ourselves to. It's, I don't also think it's like, it's not as specific as these, you know, there are 15 million people who use these tax credits, 7 million of them are Democrats and 8 million are Republicans or 5 million are Democrats, and we're going to get those 5 million. No, I think it's more people are seeing us fight for something. And healthcare premiums are so confusing anyway, that just being seen as the people fighting to lower them and Republicans being either opposing lowering them or being dragged to lowering them is helpful to us.

1:01:06Do you think we'll be able to run on this in the midterms? I think we will be able to, I think we will have to run on a lot of things. One of those things is the people who can actually address inflation and high prices. And this is a data point in that case. I don't think that we did something. We did it or we fought for it. And either we did it or they jacked your premiums up. Those are the two options here. And it's like a data point in that larger argument. Do I think what happens in October of 2025 is going to be top of mind in November of 2026? Probably not. Although I will say the it was much earlier in the year when Trump tried to repeal the ACA in 2017.

1:01:48And that was still pretty resonant when people went to vote in 2018. Yeah. I do think that even if this is about making the Democrats in Congress who took part in this feel confident that they can fight. Yeah. And that fighting is a good thing and that taking a risk is a good thing. Then that's positive. You know, like good for them that they got positive reinforcement for taking that risk. I mean, this is like this is sort of small ball part of it. But you'll remember this from having been in the Senate at the time. But the Democrats were a fucking mess after the 2004 election. And one of the things that actually taught Democrats how to fight back against Bush was the fight to defeat Social Security privatization.

1:02:29This is akin to that. It created unity in the party. It reminded the base that we can fight. It reminded Democrats in Congress they could fight. and I think this has the potential to have a similar effect. Yeah, I'm shocked that Republicans have not looked to make a deal and get out of this at this point. Well, it's hard because Trump doesn't understand the issue and so like that's the forcing mechanism. But he's probably the one with the best politics on this internally. He's got like an instinct that because he's like accidentally saying, yeah, I want to do a deal on healthcare and then he has to walk it back and all that kind of shit.

1:03:02But like he doesn't want this issue on the table. I would imagine not. And I can't imagine that Republicans in the House and Senate who are trying to keep the House and Senate want this on the table. And so it's like if I'm a Republican or Republican strategist, like I look for a way that it doesn't look like I lost and just gave in to the Democrats, but that we can take the issue off the table and extend the fucking subsidies if I'm looking at the polling and want to win the midterms. One of the things that's keeping a deal from getting done is the lack of vulnerable incumbents in either party.

1:03:37Basically, you have Susan Collins. Right, who's looking for a deal. Looking for a deal. John Ossoff, who's not looking for a deal. Right. Because you remember what ended the Waffle House shutdown of 2018 was Claire McCaskill, Joe Manchin, all these people who were up in 2018 in red states were like, get me the fuck out of this. There's just no one in that situation because the other Senate races don't have incumbents, right? North Carolina, Iowa, Texas, you have an incumbent, but that incumbent's in the middle of a primary where they're basically trying to see who could be the bigger fascists right now.

1:04:09So that person's not going to cut an Affordable Care Act deal. And so that's why it's hard to get a gang together, because you don't have people whose own political immediate self-interest is affected by this. Yeah, it's wild. All right. We want to spend just a bit of time on the good news that's being celebrated literally around the world. Hopefully you've listened to Tommy and Ben on this already, But on Wednesday evening, Hamas accepted the first phase of the Gaza peace plan brokered by the Trump team. As of this recording, Israel's government was doing the same. If that happens, the IDF will pull back to a first designated perimeter and Hamas will release the remaining hostages, which Trump says could happen as early as Monday or maybe Tuesday.

1:04:46He also said he'll be traveling to Israel in the coming days and that he'll meet with hostages once they return. What do you think? What do you think? How about this? I think, as you mentioned, there's a lot further to do here. This is just the beginning of a process. But if this means that the hostages are released, if it means that Palestinian political prisoners are released, if it means that the genocide pauses, if it means that more aid gets into Gaza, then this is a great thing. And that everyone involved, we should be grateful to the people involved who got this done, even if that means Donald Trump.

1:05:22Yeah, it's incredible news. the hostages can come home and it's also incredible news if like just i mean it's a pause to all hostilities right the bombing and that's why i said that's why i said pause not right because we know there's more that's the big question because you know releasing the hostages um that you know that they don't really have any more leverage anymore and um you know you hope that uh israel and bb netanyahu keeps their end of the deal here and does not resume hostilities and you hope that Hamas does not resume hostilities as well, right? But the idea that you could stop the killing, stop the slaughter, and stop the starvation and that aid could come back in because that's part of the deal too, that immediately aid is rushed in with no limits like it was before.

1:06:12It would be huge. It would be huge. This is a smaller thing, maybe a little picky, but how are you feeling about reading all the tributes to not just Trump but Jared Kushner, Steve Witkoff? the real estate team from New York got it done. I'll tell you, John, I read that story about Kushner, where he just talked about how he was a deal guy. And this is actually Middle East people a lot like doing real estate deals. And that's why he and Wyckoff could get it done. And it got about two thirds of the way through it. I decided to do something fun, which is send it to Tommy and Ben and see how they'd react to it.

1:06:47That's what I've been doing is because it's making me mad. And so I'm like, I can't imagine how it's, well i can now because tommy all day it's just like yes and so i've decided to stop reading them decided i can take a pause i don't need this like we but it's all it's also and tommy and ben were saying this too like it trump and good for trump on this was able to put pressure on bb yeah right which we were told a million times that joe biden just couldn't do and wouldn't work all right and donald trump came in and he took too long to put the pressure on bb way too long and like how many more people fucking died over the last year because he wasn't, he didn't do what he did now and finally told BB, knock it the fuck off, you know?

1:07:30But he did and it worked. Yeah. You know, or at least we hope it works. Yeah, it is an indictment of Biden's strategy for sure. Yeah, for sure. All right, how about the Peace Prize? Peace Prize, the Peace Prize, which they immediately, it's basically all Trump cares about. And it's like, all right, if that's your incentive and the incentive, which is, you know, typical narcissistic incentive, perverse, but if it leads to a good outcome, who are we to judge? I mean, we can judge. We can judge, but the outcome would be good, right? Not the outcome of him getting the Peace Prize, but the outcome of the war being over.

1:08:08That's the good outcome. And by the time you're listening to this, we'll know. It'll be out. Yeah, because it gets announced tomorrow morning. And what we did find out is the Guardian said that I think they have sources in the Nobel Prize Committee saying that they picked the winner on Monday. Yeah, final meeting was Monday. Yeah, before this whole deal came about. I'm excited for the Axios story about Trump yelling at Kushner and Wyckoff for not getting this done over the weekend so that he could get in before the vote. I'm worried for the Norwegians. Yeah, that's right. As you're listening to this, one of two things could be happening.

1:08:46Trump could have the Nobel Peace Prize or we could be at war with Norway. Those are the two options. Which is, again, deeply ironic that to go to war with a country whose committee did not give you the peace prize, that would be – and if I were a Norwegian, I would just – I would not get in a boat around those fjords anytime soon if that doesn't go well. I would just say to the Nobel Prize committee, you have to keep dangling in front of him for as long as possible. You want him – so – Yes. Because if he gets it, he's going to stop caring about peace. So he's got to – the carrot's always got to be like one foot out of his reach.

1:09:23So he continues. Like we still got to deal with Russia, Ukraine. There are other things in the world. Because even while he was trying to get the Nobel Peace Prize, he has started multiple conflicts around the world and started just bombing boats everywhere. So if he doesn't have that incentive, what do we think is going to happen? President of peace, president of extrajudicial executions at sea, right? It's just – it's the same thing. Peace through war, as they always say. Speaking of which, speaking of which, on Thursday afternoon, final thing we'll leave you with here. On Thursday afternoon, Kristi Noem tweeted out an AI parody video.

1:10:02All the rage these days in the Trump administration. Of the Love Boat theme song featuring Trump as the captain. Taylor made to go viral. Piss off libs like us. And you know what? It worked. Here it is.

1:10:53I mean, it's just worth pointing out in this absurd time that that is a video of people being killed. Yeah. People being murdered. People being executed with no due process, no evidence, just killed. As it's sent out as a joke by the Secretary of Homeland Security. and they are saying merely that they are narco-terrorists that they killed which even if that's true um is not a legal basis to kill people they have not the government has not even bothered to say who they are who they were has not even bothered to like you said offer any evidence whatsoever offer the identities of the people the president of columbia uh this week said actually one of the boats was a bunch of colombian citizens in the boat and is that true we don't know because the u.s government will not provide any information about this they are just saying trust us we are murdering people at sea and um we're saying they're narco-terrorists and we don't have to tell you anything else all we have to do is make ai parody videos to the fucking love boat which is a song that is probably on Donald Trump's iPad that he plays in the new Rose Garden cafe and dance hall or whatever it is.

1:12:18Ah, fuck. What a world. This fucking political system sucks.

1:12:30The profiles have been just really, really bad. That's all I have to say. but when we come back you will hear my conversation with governor jb pritzker who's wonderful we love jb pritzker and we talk about everything's going on in chicago before we get to that two quick things a reminder that we moved crooked con aka antifa hq to that's not funny that's not funny that's not funny anyone should perform

1:13:03no to a bigger venue a bigger venue the Ronald Reagan building unlikely place for Antifa HQ right the place you least expect it's the Reagan building

1:13:18we need we need some lightness come on bigger venue to accommodate more speakers more panels more tickets Dan and I are just going to do a one-on-one panel just all about the larger story we have to tell. I actually think I am doing a panel on that. You are doing a panel on that. I am doing a panel on that. Though you and I could do, we could do a whole pod on that. If only we had a weekly podcast to talk about it on. I know. We'll have to do it next time. Too much news. There's also the VSA Action Hub. Dan, you haven't had a chance to make a joke about the Action Hub yet. Care to try? No, because I applaud people trying to save our democracy.

1:13:53Okay. All right. No Action Hub for you. head to cricketcon.com to grab your tickets if you haven't already also Lovett's got this this great new limited series going in the Lovett or Leave It feed it's called Bravo America all about how reality TV explains the world we're living in including our politics seems a little self-serving to me

1:14:17you're a Bravo guy right? I am a Bravo guy yes yeah so you might you might like this I don't I don't know some of the any of the people some of the people any of the people that he's interviewing? He's only had one, right? Right, right. He gave me some other names and I was not aware of it. It was Terry Dubrow, husband of Heather Dubrow of Orange County fame. Okay, okay. He was also a reality star on his own on the TV show Botched, I think it was called. Just not a show you want to see about plastic surgery gone wrong. Reality stars being interviewed by a reality guest star. That's right. No, he's a reality star.

1:14:53Yeah. Yeah, briefly. That's true. That's pretty good. That's his joke. It's his own joke from his own show. Yes. The series is full of great interviews and insights. New episodes drop Tuesdays on the Lover to Leave It feed and on YouTube.

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1:16:43Governor Pritzker, welcome back to Pod Save America. Great to see you, John. I'm glad to see that you're not in jail, despite the president's best wishes to the contrary. He and Kristi Noem were just in a cabinet meeting today. They said that the reason you're pushing back on the guard deployment is because you're scared and threatened by the anarchists and the politics of doing the right thing. Care to respond? Yeah, you know, often when the president and his minions say anything, it's really a reflection of how they're feeling. And they're just projecting on other people. So I would just say the same right back at them.

1:17:22I think they're afraid. And frankly, I don't think they really understand the implications of what they're doing, some of them. And certainly, Kristi Noem has absolutely no idea what law enforcement really means. And she's the head of Homeland Security. How does it feel when you see the president of the United States say that you should be in jail? Like, what was your reaction to that? Well, it's never happened to me before. I was going to say, yeah. Oh, it's a new feeling, whatever it is. Look, I, you know, the thing is, we've heard Donald Trump speak about things he knows nothing about and often makes, you know, crazy assertions.

1:18:08And I mean, over time, I guess we've all become a little bit deafened to the idea that he actually means anything. Because from one moment to the other, he says things that he will then change five minutes later. He knows he's lying. So you don't exactly know which one is a lie, which one is a feeling, which one is something he's actually going to act on. So it's, to my mind anyway, all I can say is the rhetoric itself is dangerous. I don't, there's no basis upon which to come after me or the mayor of Chicago or Gavin Newsom. I know that he's talked about jailing him or any other elected officials that I know of that he's mentioned that are just speaking out.

1:19:03And look, he hates everyone on the left. He hates any critic of his. And so I'm a critic. I'm going to get criticism. I don't think that it's going to have any real impact. And so I kind of thumb my nose at the guy because I just don't think that he's a serious individual. By the way, the rest of the world knows that he is not a serious individual. He's got a lot of power, and I know that too. But, you know, but as if the guy says something on a day and means it, you can't take that for granted. So he and Noam continue to describe Chicago as some kind of a crime ridden, lawless hellhole where, you know, brave ICE agents are being assaulted by anarchists.

1:19:50For people who aren't in Chicago, who have only seen like headlines and posts here and there, what's the situation on the ground right now? Well, day before yesterday, Condé Nast named us the best big city in America. So let's start with that. I love Chicago. It was one of the best places I've ever lived. Thank you. And I have to say, you know, we've had truly an amazing summer. And I would point out we've had a greater tourism than ever before in the history of Chicago and in the state of Illinois. So the idea that people are continuing to come to Chicago to visit us and yet somehow it's a hellhole and crime ridden and people are wearing flak jackets and murders are happening right and left around you, it's ludicrous.

1:20:36And now I recognize we're a big city. We've had crime in the past. I think every big city's had a wave of crime that they've had to deal with. But, you know, four years ago to today, half the number of homicides in the state of Illinois, in the city of Chicago, rather. The state, by the way, the state of Illinois, including the city, doesn't rank in the bottom half in terms of violent crime. We're 19th. I would like to be first, best, most, you know, safest. That would be first. We're 19th safest. So, you know, working on the rest. But the point is everything that he's saying about Chicago and Illinois is just something that he's got drilled into his head from I don't know when.

1:21:18And the man doesn't read anything. He doesn't know anything except what he gets told by Stephen Miller or by Kristi Noem or by I don't know who in the White House who have their own designs on, you know, on what the world order should look like with Donald Trump as their leader. Well, and what is going on in Chicago and outside Chicago seems to be, at least for the last several weeks, if not months, ICE agents sort of terrorizing neighborhoods. It seems like there's been like some protests around the Broadview facility outside Chicago. And then and now just say, you know, two blocks, two blocks of of of people protesting.

1:22:00I'm talking about on the other side of the street from the Broadview facility, two blocks of people. That's it. I mean, now, I will also tell you that when they try to march up and down the streets, you know, in their uniforms and with their automatic weapons, and when they go into neighborhoods and try to arrest people, yeah, people are yelling at them. People, I mean, there are instant protests of just neighbors who are like, what are you doing? Like, this person is my friend. He's lived here for 10 years. Why are you taking him away? People are really upset about this. And so there are kind of instant protests.

1:22:33But this idea that there's some sort of like, I don't know, fires or, you know, that, you know, Antifa with masks on or running around, just it's all so completely false. And it's very upsetting to me. Sorry to interrupt you. But the idea that the protests that people are talking about, yeah, there are more and more people showing up because they're getting more and more upset about what's happening. and ISIS mistreating people, including U.S. citizens. They're running up to people who are brown. You've seen the videos, but I'm telling you, holding somebody who's brown and saying, like, I need proof of your citizenship.

1:23:09John, you don't carry proof of citizenship. I bet you don't. No, I do not. I don't. I mean, we have a driver's license. That's not proof of citizenship. And we've never had to do that in this country. And yet that is what is now being demanded, or you will be detained and possibly arrested. And now the Guard has been deployed and he's federalized the Illinois National Guard and Texas has sent 200 troops. What is the status of that? I know that there was a court hearing today. Yeah, probably there may be a ruling by the time you're all hearing this. But what's the status of the Guard right now?

1:23:45Well, I think two things. One is that they've also deployed California National Guard to Illinois. That's news, by the way. I don't think anybody knows that yet. There are 14 of them so far from California, we found out today. The hearing that you're talking about has been going on since earlier this afternoon. They took a little break in the middle because I think that the feds needed to get some information demanded by the judge to present them. But they're coming back in in about an hour and a half from now. And we're expecting that there will be a ruling, but but it's hard to tell. Have you have you spoken to Greg Abbott at all since since the deployment of the Texas National Guard to Illinois?

1:24:31No, he has not called me. And Greg Abbott, I want to remind you, is the same Greg Abbott who signed a letter last year to President Biden saying, do not federalize our National Guard for the purposes of using them with Space Force. That you should have very limited authority to call our National Guard, the Texas National Guard, into service for the federal government's purposes. And therefore, you know, that's what his view was a year ago when there was a Democratic president. Seems like things have changed a year later. All of a sudden, he thinks it's just fine to federalize his National Guard to send them to another state or to have the government, the federal government and the president do whatever they want with them.

1:25:19You said earlier this week that this is all a pretext for Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act, which, you know, I think he probably has fewer limits legally on that if he invokes the Insurrection Act than even the deployment of the Guard. But how would that look different than what's happening right now? What should people know about that? So, I mean, we're going to get into some legal matters that although I'm an attorney, I would say I mostly play one on TV these days. But I can say this, that the Insurrection Act, let's start with it's called the Insurrection Act for a reason. Needs to be an insurrection.

1:26:04Yeah, yeah. Or a foreign invasion. I mean, we have an invasion going on in Chicago. It is by federal agents at the moment and potentially by federal troops or federalized troops. But the Insurrection Act really can only be invoked in those circumstances. Truly a foreign invasion, an insurrection, those are basically the circumstances or something that is truly a national emergency. So he legally can't invoke the Insurrection Act. I know, again, he woke up this morning with a new idea, you know, or yesterday morning. So he's saying it. Meanwhile, we have to rely upon the courts to protect us from a president just saying things and then doing it, even though it's unconstitutionally illegal.

1:26:58How would it look different? Well, to be honest with you, it would look different in the sense that today in court, the federal lawyers are saying that the reason they want to bring in National Guard is to protect the facilities of ICE and the ICE agents. so not they're not saying the federal lawyers are not saying this is about crime right which is what donald trump continues to say despite the fact that the lawyers for the federal government are arguing something completely different so why are they sending troops in donald trump is telling them to and they're coming up with any argument that will work so but an insurrection act uh if it were if the insurrection act were invoked uh that could be for almost any purpose to repel a foreign invasion to put down an insurrection.

1:27:50So it would be hard to determine any difference between protecting facilities, potentially fighting crime. You know, it would be martial law, essentially, that could be invoked in the city of Chicago or the state of Illinois under the Insurrection Act. Again, he has no right to do so. The act is there for a purpose. by the same reason, you know, separately that there's a Posse Comitatus Act. There are reasons why these things were passed and are part of our legal lexicon. So you guys have taken legal action on the guard deployments. What other options are you considering to help protect the people of Illinois from ICE terrorizing the neighborhoods from everything else that Donald Trump is trying to do to Illinois and Chicago specifically.

1:28:44Like, you know, I'm sure you get up every day and your highest priority is to protect people in your state. And this is obviously a pretty extreme situation that it seems like Donald Trump wants to escalate even further. So do you have other options or other other tools that you can consider? So, look, there are limits on the power of states to, you know, to to overcome what the federal government is attempting to do. So I believe me, starting on November the 8th, we began looking at all of the things that that we thought Donald Trump was capable of doing and thinking, trying to think through how we could respond, what what all of the available responses are.

1:29:34And still, you know, there are things we didn't imagine, you know, that are happening. And so we have to think it through constantly. And thank God, we've got a great attorney general, I've got a great general counsel in my office, and terrific outside counsels that help us as well, not to mention our teams. And they're basically a bunch of things that we've been doing. And I, you know, I've often sometimes talked about, you know, Trump proofing our state. So we've passed laws that have done things to protect people in our neighborhoods. Again, not in not knowing exactly what was going to happen.

1:30:06Ice on the ground for persistent, you know, months. But here are some things that we're doing and will continue to do. And then, of course, there are things we can contemplate. One is we funded something that's, I guess we're all calling rapid reaction, which is local nonprofit organizations that when ICE comes into a neighborhood, they are texted or called by people in the neighborhood. Everybody knows how to get a hold of them in the neighborhoods where we think, you know, they're most targeted. And those folks come in from wherever they are nearby. It's, you know, they know who's nearby and they come as fast as they can.

1:30:52And the idea is not to interfere with ICE because you're not allowed, it's not legal to stand in the way of a law enforcement officer, federal government or state, but rather to make sure that people in the neighborhood generally are warned what's going on and also to help out people who are being ill-affected. You know, there's a family, I'll just take an example, a family where maybe there's a mixed status family where one person is undocumented and another person is perhaps partially documented. Another person yet still is a U.S. citizen and ICE will come in, detain them all because they all look alike and nobody has proof on them of their status.

1:31:40And then, you know, after perhaps an hour, they will have detained them in a car or perhaps removed them to another place. And then they'll let the U.S. citizen go, you know, what have you. But the rapid reaction force is there to assist. What about the children that are there? What about the grandma who is not being arrested, but she's now left by herself? and the neighborhood is traumatized. One other thing, remember that we've got, I mean, real trauma going on where you've got kids, children at elementary schools nearby who's, they don't know, you know, we all talk about whether a parent can, you know, walk their child to school because they might get stopped by ice.

1:32:23And that's one problem. Another is the children at the school are traumatized by the idea, even now, that they don't know if they go home, if anybody's going to be home when they get there. And so this is the world, this is the country, the city that we're living in, the country that we're living in, where that can happen. So we're, Rapid Reaction Force is there to assist people in the neighborhoods. We've got Illinois State Police that are working with local law enforcement in Broadview. That's a separate suburb. It's not Chicago. And it's a very small police department there. We're working with them and we've brought in the Cook County Sheriff's Office to protect the protesters who, as you've seen in some of the videos, they're getting pelted with, you know, gas pellets, with rubber bullets, even when they're not doing anything wrong.

1:33:13I think everybody now has seen the, you know, the pastor just standing there praying with his arms wide open and getting pelted. So, you know, we're doing things to protect people on the ground as best we can. We've advised ICE that, you know, they're doing it wrong and, you know, and explaining that, you know, they should be coordinating and talking to us about where they're going, what they're doing, not because we're going to assist them or anything like that, but rather because we want to make sure that there isn't any misunderstanding or isn't any protest that gets out of hand in any particular location.

1:33:54That's what we would like, but they have done no communication with us. Okay, so you asked me, what are we doing? So the rest of it is people knowing their rights, they're not allowed to break down your door if they do not have a judicial warrant. And they almost never have a judicial warrant. Now, the building, the South Shore building, probably well aware of that was, you know, essentially taken over like a war zone and under the guise that it was some headquarters of Tren de Aragua. What happened there, I mean, they give us no notice. They gave nobody in the building notice. Okay, they have to go get somebody.

1:34:35They had, as I understand it, they had judicial warrant on perhaps a few, two, three, Trenda de Aragua members. Instead of going after them, and, you know, we all understand police, you know, they, if you can isolate the apartment or area of a building, you know, they're going to go there and they're going to isolate it and make sure that people are safe who they're not looking at. Instead, they literally went in this building like they were in Fallujah and and propelling off of Black Hawk helicopters. They ransacked the entire place. Doors are broken. Windows are broken. They kept people, innocent U.S.

1:35:15citizens and people who are documented. They kept them detained for hours, some of them zip tied while they went and got the few people that they were going after. And look, I want them to get the bad guys. Please understand. Just like I want our police and the FBI and DEA, I want them to go after gang members, whether they're Trende Aragua or anything else. But for God's sakes, the innocent people whose lives have been upended, the trauma that the children have gone through, that shouldn't be allowed in this country. And, you know, whether they are given immunity by the president of the United States, they are going to be held accountable when there is a change in administration.

1:36:01They are. When there is a Democrat in office or when the Congress takes over, the Democratic Congress takes over and actually does something, they're going to hold hearings. People are going to be held accountable and they could be held accountable legally. And it might take a few years, which is not at all satisfying to any of us. But the people who are doing this on the ground need to know that they may feel safe now because the president and Kristi Noem and Tom Holman say it's OK. But trust me, a few years from now, this is going to hurt. I mean, you mentioned Congress. So Democrats in Congress have made the government shut down about health care.

1:36:42They won't vote to fund the government unless Trump and Republicans agree to reverse health care cuts that will lead to huge premium spikes for millions as well as people losing their health care. I think this is a worthy fight, both on the substance. I think it's going to help people if they win. And it's also and I think it's good politically. I also think that they should be saying they won't fund the government unless Trump and Republicans agree to some basic restrictions on ICE. and, you know, a federal judge in Illinois, just before we started talking, just imposed temporary restrictions that, you know, prevent ICE from using force or arresting journalists or nonviolent protesters or unless there's probable cause they've committed a crime.

1:37:25They also prevent ICE from using riot control weapons and throwing people to the ground unless there's an imminent risk of public safety. Do you think the Democrats in Congress should be demanding reforms like these around ICE? We could name a few more as a condition for funding the government? Look, I think we should be demanding those things. But I also think that you've got to have some strategy about getting to the end of a shutdown. And so getting real results so that you can get to the end of a shutdown. And I believe strongly that what you just described is something that I've talked about with some senators and congressmen before the shutdown took place.

1:38:05You should the strategy be? What should you be going after? I, again, I think we should be fighting for, as you just said, like both sides of that, right? Healthcare and I guess I'll just proudly say democracy. But I do think that it's very difficult to get actual guarantees from a federal administration, especially one that's being given carte blanche by the Supreme Court. And, you know, is if they have ultimate executive power with very few limitations, it's hard to get any agreement from them that will hold. But what you can do is get a piece of legislation that says, you know, we're going to give people or preserve people's health care and make sure that they're not dying because they don't have health care coverage or that their premiums will be doubled.

1:39:02So I think there's a limit to what you can demand because otherwise, why not just put everything on the table and say we're not opening up the government until we get all of these things? So I think, you know, again, I am not suggesting that we shouldn't be very, very vocal and fight very hard to make sure that we're limiting what ICE and CBP are doing. but I think there's just a limit to what can be done by Congress right now. And this is actually, because you raise it, I'll just tell you, it's why I think that governors are so important in this moment. And I know that sounds self-serving, but I just am saying that governors, whether it's Gavin Newsom or Maura Healy or Michelle Lujan Grisham, we don't talk about all those folks all the time, but governors have the ability to get things done.

1:40:00And we have, I mean, Tim Walls, I was just in Minnesota with him. Boy, look at the things he's gotten done. And even with a divided, you know, 50-50 legislature. But in Washington, I mean, it's so little gets done that's positive for the American people. And I think that it's a little bit like, we need to look back to the states. We've banned prior authorizations for mental health, for example. We've expanded health care in a massive way since I've been going. We raised the minimum wage,$15 here now from$8.25 when I took office. Just all of those things are things we got done at the state level that really do help people.

1:40:41While the federal government is kind of like either hurting or just sitting silent and neutral and getting nothing done. It's a sad state of affairs in the country. And I do think the 2026 elections are going to be vital for determining which direction we're really going to go. For sure. And you've warned a few times now that Trump might use the military in connection with the 2026 elections. What specifically are you worried about? And what do you think can be done about it? Yeah. Well, I think we're seeing something very unusual, and I guess I'm going to piece a few things together for you just to make the point.

1:41:18So we're seeing the agents themselves dressed as soldiers, marching in a major city, in several major cities, causing mayhem and hoping to bring in more soldiers, right? These folks, nobody knows the difference between somebody wearing camouflage and holding an automatic weapon who happens to be an ICE agent and someone who's wearing the same thing, you know, who's a soldier. So the normalization of that is what I think their aim is. And, you know, they keep expanding more cities, more cities, right? It's easier to do it in a red state, even in a blue city, but a red state than it is in a blue state.

1:42:01But that's, you know, so you're seeing them do it and blue states and red states. Now, that's one thing that's happening, normalization and militarization of cities. Another thing that's happened, and very few people paying attention, you probably are, which is they asked for, they demanded, the DOJ did, our voter data, not just ours. In Illinois, every state's voter data. Why? They won't tell us why. And actually, what they seem to be looking for, remember back to the 2020 elections, is they want to be able to find voter fraud, which lots of organizations have been looking for voter fraud, as you know, for a long time.

1:42:44There's very little voter fraud going on, very little. They're calling for all these databases so that they can look through them, and yet they won't tell you when they're going to come up with any conclusion about whatever it is they're looking for. Next year, when we have a November election, I think you're going to see two things that occur. One, you won't have had any results from this mass collection of data, of voter data. And then the second is you're going to have soldiers or people dressed as soldiers at polling places saying we're protecting your voting rights. You know, this is about voter integrity.

1:43:18And then the possibility that they'll be doing what Michael Flynn urged the president to do back in 2020, which is seize the ballot boxes at the polling places so that we can have the military do a fair count. Now, if you put all the things together that are happening right now, that doesn't wouldn't surprise me at all. Think about how hard they fought on this issue of whether the election had been stolen in 2020. Right. The January 6th riot being an example of that, but lots of other things. And then all of those people at January 6th, you know, being pardoned. All of that, put all those together and ask yourself, do you think what I just said is completely ridiculous?

1:44:02Do you think what I just said is something that's really possible with Trump as president and Stephen Miller in the White House and, you know, and all the same people kind of advising the president that are at the, you know, at the edges of the law? I think it's definitely possible. It doesn't sound that far-fetched. I think my concern is, A, so what do we do about that? And B, I'm sure you walk this fine line all the time, which is we want to warn people like, hey, wake up, this is happening, or this could happen. But also, you don't want to scare people into staying home and depressing turnout, right?

1:44:40And so how do you think about, like, the way to handle that this could be coming in 2026? They're the ones who want to scare people to stay home, right? That's the purpose of having troops. So that, I mean, that's one of the purposes. But look, I think we've just got to make it plain to people that now is a moment when you're going to have to, you know, choose to, you know, are you going to just let democracy go? And I might remind you, because I know you're a political being, as any elected official is, too. You know, this is not how we win elections. You know, like talking about democracy, I was not a fan of what Joe Biden did at that Valley Forge.

1:45:23I thought it was a great speech he gave at Valley Forge in January of 2024. But I didn't go in part because I didn't think that should not be the theme of a campaign and that's what he was trying to make it. And because I don't think democracy is the issue on which you win. I do think that you can't win unless you have democracy. So those of us who have any power to do anything about it need to stand up and speak out about the danger of losing democracy. And then we've also got to run campaigns all across the United States. I'm running for election, but the Congress in particular, we've got to make sure that we're running campaigns about things that really matter in everybody's life.

1:46:01I'll tell you a quick story, if I can, about something that happened to me when I was working on Capitol Hill. I worked for two United States senators many years ago in my 20s. I got offered the opportunity to go with this organization you may have heard of called the American Council of Young Political Leaders to a foreign country with, you know, half Democrats, half Republicans, young people like me at the time, where we learned about the, we got sent to Argentina to learn about their political system and they would bring people from other countries to learn about ours. We went there, we landed in Buenos Aires.

1:46:33And the minute we landed, strangely, there was a military coup. I promise I had nothing to do with it. But, and so we went to the, to the hotel, all of us together and watched on TV what was happening. And then we had to make a decision, or at least the leader of our group said, we have to make a decision. Are we going to go to the embassy and wait it out? Or are we going to go, there's going to be a democracy rally the next day in the Plaza de Mayo in Buenos Aires. Should we go there to learn about democracy, like, you know, in person in this situation? And by the way, the vote was basically half and half.

1:47:11The Republicans all wanted to go to the embassy. The Democrats all wanted to go to the democracy rally. We went to the democracy rally, the tiebreaker being the leader of the group. And we got to see, you know, hundreds of thousands of people carrying banners and, you know, talking about democracy, yelling, chanting and so on. And there was a guy in the middle of all of that with an ice cream cart selling popsicles and ice cream. And I remember that vividly. I'm 60 years old now. I was 23 at the time. I still remember it vividly because I remember thinking at the time and talking to a few of the people I was with about the fact that that guy doesn't mostly care about what the form of government is.

1:47:56What he cares about is he's got to put food on that. That's the number one consideration is the food on the table, right? He's got to put gas in his car. He's got to survive. And I think about that now, thinking about our elections coming up next year, that the number one issue in people's lives is, can I put food on the table, get to work? Can I feed my family or take care of them and have a home to live in? And the number two issue is, the form of government. And so we've got to win elections on number one. And then we've also got to fight for number two in order to have the elections. Governor Pritzker, well said.

1:48:33And thank you, as always, for joining Pod Save America. Thanks, John.

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