1075: Trump (Literally) Destroys White House

24:44I mean, the brazenness of his immigration dragnets and his the lawlessness of the ICE officers and the National Guard troops trying to foment literally a civil war between states. Is it like that far of a stretch to see him doing something on Election Day in a blue city or blue state? I don't think so. And and as if we we've learned from 2020, it's like once you put the point, you cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube. Once the poison is out in the air and people believe that something wrong has something wicked has happened in a certain precinct, you know, it becomes very difficult to convince people otherwise.

25:16And delegitimizing those who are elected to the House. I mean, they're not seating people who were duly elected. Right. Because they're it's advantageous to Democrats like anything's on the table. And people should know Heather Honey's name, right? Like we need to inform ourselves about the people who are, I think, soon going to become the tip of the spear for Trump in and around elections, because we all know Rudy Giuliani. We remember Cleta Mitchell, but there's another wave. There's like Gen 2.0 and they have power and they're at work right now trying to undermine our right to vote. Yeah, I think my first reaction when I read this or I saw the headlines with the story and then some other stories about like Trump appointing 2020 election deniers to look back at the 2020 election and do yet another investigation is I was like, oh, maybe this is a bunch of kooks trying to fight the last war.

26:07And Trump just wants to put out some report that says, oh, it was rigged in 2020. And that's just going to be, you know, he's going to make him happy. But this piece, it really gets to the challenge here. And what's really scary is that they are looking ahead to future elections. This is not just about relitigating 2020. This is about 2026, 2028 and beyond. And that's why people, I think, have to really pay attention to it. I will say Trump and his goons aren't treating the White House as a rental these days. Every president puts their own stamp on the historic building and plenty have made renovations during their tenure.

26:44Nothing in our lifetimes has come close to what Trump is doing, demolishing the entire East Wing of the White House to make room for a new 90 ,000 square foot, $300 million ballroom that nobody needs and nobody asked for. Like most of Trump's construction projects, he sold this one to people by lying about its costs, its footprint, how disruptive it will be. Let's listen to how Trump's explanation has, shall we say, evolved over time. It won't interfere with the current building. It won't be. It'll be near it, but not touching it and pays total respect to the existing building, which I'm the biggest fan of.

27:23It's my favorite. It's my favorite place. I love it. You probably hear the beautiful sound of construction to the back. You hear that sound? Oh, that's music to my ears. I love that sound. Other people don't like it. I love it, Josh. I think when I hear that sound, it reminds me of money.

27:48for those of you just listening that last clip is just a jackhammer going while the uh the last remains of the east wing are demolished it's gone now it's it is now the east wing is gone of the white house you guys have both spent time in the white house particularly the east wing initial reactions dan i am so mad about this you're really okay i am interesting i I mean, it's just like, it's obviously not, I'm not saying that it's the, I'm unbiased in it. Like we worked in the White House. We spent time there. It's a very special place, right? It's not Trump's house, not the president's house, the people's house.

28:23Presidents get to rent it for four years. And if they're lucky, they get to extend that lease for another four years. And as you know, it is something you, like when you're in that house where you're the president or a staffer or even a visitor, you take, like you understand the history of it. You take it so seriously. Like my wife worked in the East wing when she worked with the first lady. She was telling me this morning about how when they had to move things around for events, you get the White House curator to come. They put on white gloves because the stuff is so historic. I mean, it's like a very serious thing.

28:50And to just destroy it for literally no reason to build what is inevitably going to be a tacky, massive ballroom that no one but Trump wanted. And he's definitely going to put his name on it. Like, you know, he looks at the Truman balcony every day and says, it's going to be the Trump ballroom. There's going to be a plaque there. I look forward to the next Democratic president taking that plaque down. but to just destroy it. And it says something about, not that we need a reminder, but it says something about his view of everything. He doesn't care about anything that came before him. He doesn't care about anything that came after him.

29:20He doesn't view this as the people's house. He doesn't view this as his role in history. It's just about him in that moment. And if he can do this, right, think about all the other things he could do, right? Caroline Levin was asked today about why Trump couldn't just raise the Jefferson Memorial and put something else up. And she kind of implied he could if he wanted to. Yeah, he can do whatever he wants. I think it's really sad. It's like there is just something about just destroying a national historic landmark for no fucking reason that makes, obviously, me as someone who, in all of us who have a connection to it, angry, but it should make everyone angry.

29:55Alex, what'd you think? I mean, these fuckers are the ones that are putting Confederate statues back up in the name of history. Yeah, that's a good point. Good point. What? Like flag waving patriotism, preservation of history. And you're just tearing down the entire East Wing of the White House to build a corporate event space to entertain Lockheed Martin executives or I don't know, have like Mooney style mass weddings. I have no idea. Yeah. Like. It doesn't even matter, right? Like it's everything Dan said. This is a monument to ego. This is his Versailles. This is monarchical behavior. This is maybe going to be funded ultimately by the American taxpayer.

30:33I mean, it's so absolutely fucking disgusting. But the way I think of it is and the way I've been sort of trying to like dig in and like manage my feelings of distress around this. It's like everybody's got to stop thinking about the Trump administration in terms of election cycles, like in the same way that they tried to contextualize these renovations by saying, well, Calvin Coolidge redid the attic and Barack Obama put a basketball court in and Nixon put a bowling alley in. we need to think of Trump in terms of history and the institutions he's destroying are going to take decades to rebuild.

31:04Everybody's got to dig the fuck in and buckle up because nothing is going to be repaired by like next year. And honestly, we need to think start thinking about politics like that, too. It's like it does. It's a long term investment. And he's trying to change the course of American history. And it's going to take a powerful citizen led, hopefully with the Democrats on board movement to undo the damage he is doing right now. And like you don't need a better example than what he's doing to the East Wing. It's like, OK, this is some history right here. Like it's it's going to take it's going to take time to rebuild this and undo it and dig in.

31:40You know, you know, it's not going to take time, though, demolishing the Trump ballroom next time the next democratic president. It's going to be made of like, you know, drywall and like like fake gold leaf. So, yeah, it's just a dump site. I talked about this on Tim Miller's on the Bulwark pod with Tim Miller this week. And we were talking about Jonathan Van Last. JVL has been on a tear about this. And he's like, I want every Democratic candidate for president to be like, you know, one of the first days in office, I will bulldoze this. And I was joking about it. Tim and I were both joking about it.

32:17The more I read it, it's like I still don't think it's like top priority for any Democrat running for president. But, yeah, I'd do it. I'd bulldoze that shit you're gonna be in the seat of the bulldozer just like you and Charlie I'm not gonna spend a lot of time campaigning on it or running a whole bunch of ads about it but yeah I'm fucking doing it for sure the plaques not just the plaque coming off that says it's the Trump ballroom no the whole ballroom's coming down just bulldoze done I read JVL's rebuttal to your ridicule of him and it's quite compelling I would say he makes a very strong point that you don't need political capital for this, right?

32:55It's not like you're doing the ballroom destruction and passing Medicare for all. You can do both. I will say the reason that it did not, it's not like, it hasn't made me as angry as some of the other stories is it is destroying a historic monument and he's doing it unnecessarily and he's acting like a king, like all that. But there's so many people being like hurt right now. Like I said this to Tim, He can demolish the entire White House, just raise the whole thing to the ground if he takes ice off the street. And there's been so much focus on it. And I get why there's been so much focus on it because it's an image.

33:35And boy, when you see that someone just took a like a this was on Twitter, an aerial image because they were landing at DCA of the White House. So it's like the first image of the from afar, the White House, the West Wing and now just nothing. and you see that image and you're like holy shit that breaks through that definitely breaks through what's the polling on this Dan? is that your next question Jen? you can sorry I didn't mean to insert myself I love a good conversation like this so it doesn't seem as I just know Dan has the polling numbers I don't actually honestly didn't have it memorized because it was in the question so oh shit sorry it's okay now you've exposed me as a fraud I'm just supposed to be just rolling out Mr.

34:17Polar Coaster. I've been retweeting your polling post. Okay, whatever. I thought you knew it, my man. Sorry. Sorry, brah. Just get yourself a chat GPT. You don't need Dan. Message box is$7 a month. Chat GPT is$20 a month. It's quite a deal. Take that$13 to the bank, people. YouGov. YouGov. 53 % of Americans are against the destruction of the East Wing, which is what's happened. I think the question was the ballroom. There's two questions. Because there's a ballroom and there's the East Room. Yeah. And the destruction of the East Wing is even worse. Yes, yes. People are, they are, they don't want a ballroom.

34:55They don't think it's a great use of time, energy, and resources right now. But they really don't think the president should bulldoze the fucking White House. Yeah, that's definitely, because I think when I first heard the ballroom, I was like, oh, that's so Trump's. That's so fucking annoying. How much is that going to cost? And I thought it was just going to be like tacked on to like the end of the East Wing there. Like I just had a different vision. who knew that the whole fucking East Wing was coming down? I mean, you had that vision because he told you that. He told you it would not affect the facade of the White House.

35:24So, you know how they used to put those tents up that would be for big state dinners? I assume they were just going to kind of build out that way. That's sort of what I thought, too. I mean, it's truly... I've been going through this with my wife all day. She's very upset about this. It's like they bulldozed her office, right? They bulldozed Michelle Obama's office. They bulldozed Melania Trump's office. I know, metaphor for a marriage. God. And it's like another immigrant that the federal government has come after. It's really I mean, it's like you're right in a world of like ice raids and National Guard and people losing their health insurance like this building and the memories that a lot of people have in it.

36:00Not just people who work there, people who have visited there. It's obviously second to that. But it's just it's like a sad thing. So apparently, you know, Trump keeps saying that the taxpayers are not going to fund Mar-a-Lago on the Potomac. but he's just going to finance it with other money. And I guess that's true because there's a bunch of corporate donors that are financing this thing. Alex, you were talking about this earlier. What's the - Sitting in one of their houses right now. Comcast, thank you. Who's on the list here? Who's financing this thing? You know, it's interesting because there are people, and they're big corporations.

36:37None of them are going to surprise you maybe necessarily, But the ones who have explicitly committed money to the ballroom project itself are Lockheed Martin and I believe Booz Allen Hamilton. And I believe Google has also pledged five million or more for the White House ballroom project. But then you have, we have record of other companies, including Apple, Comcast, Coinbase, T-Mobile, the Adelson family, no surprise there, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta and Meta platforms. And the Winklevii. The Winklevii, Howard Lutnick also giving money. It's like this ties to the CZ thing, which is like a highly disproportionate number of crypto companies and crypto people.

37:22The Winklevii are crypto entrepreneurs who have become very close to the Trumps. He's a lot because they're from central casting as far as what he thinks crypto bro should look like. But but yeah, I mean, it's it's like the inaugural slush fund. It's like here's a way for us to curry favor with someone who's powerful in front of whom we have business interests. Because I don't think Sundar Pichai really is that excited to have a space to entertain fellow CEOs. But here such such is the reality in which we live. I would like to see some kind of color of change campaign to have citizens contact these corporations and say, are you really for the destruction of this East Wing?

37:58Are you really for the building of a monstrous 90 ,000 square foot ballroom? Shame on you. Are you paying for the destruction of our living history? Because fuck off if you are. It is pretty fucking outrageous. It's also like a bunch of the richest companies in the world who are doing just, you know, between Booz Allen and fucking the AI people. It's just it is it's like a kind of thing that if a if a liberal said this a couple of years ago, they would be like mocked as a cringy resistance person that the that Trump is going to bulldoze the White House and a new ballroom is going to be constructed with the help of all of his corporate oligarchs.

38:44It's fucking ridiculous. It's happening. I would also like to see some account like there's no process by which that money is accounted for. Right. This is not a publicly – there's no – it's not like there's an FEC report. So these companies have given$300 million. How do we know where that money goes? How do we know how it's spent? Isn't it – the Park Service somehow has a tab. There's like – there is actually a wing of the government that is dedicated to taking in the money that I think is in turn managed by the National Park Service. I could be wrong. But there is some receptacle for this specifically earmarked money.

39:17So someone somewhere has a ledger. But all these privately funded White House things are all slush funds where they're privately funded. Like the inauguration was, the redecorating funds are slush. You never really – they don't have – like we have transparency since we know companies that have done this and individuals who've done it. But there's not any sense of how the money is spent. It's not audited in any way, shape, or form. Maybe a Democratic majority can do that if we get one, if Heather Honey doesn't stop us. Bookkeeping is not their passion, Dan. No. No, they have the same approach to bookkeeping as Jason Bateman had in Ozark.

39:51Nice Ozark, ref. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. One Democrat who's going through his own renovation project, Maine Senate candidate Graham Plattner. How's that for a segue? That is perfect. That's pretty good. Did you just make that up on the spot? You know, I'm not going to take credit for that one. I'll take credit for it when I do it, but I'm not doing it. Nobody knows. I'm giving that one to read. Or maybe it was Saul. I don't know. Sorry. Someone did. Someone did on our team. In our Tuesday episode, Tommy asked Plattner about a tattoo on his chest of a Totenkopf, which now we all know, the skull and crossbones image used by the Nazi SS.

40:27Plattner said he wasn't aware of what it meant when he got it in Croatia as a drunk 23-year-old Marine. On Wednesday, after a bit of online chatter, Plattner revealed that he got the tattoo covered up. He's also dealing with the fallout from his many, many Reddit posts, including several homophobic slurs and jokes that were reported by The Advocate, which Plattner apologized for and said were indefensible in an interview with the outlet. Plattner did speak to a packed town hall in a gun quit Maine this week and got some good news from a UNH poll that was in the field between October 16th and 21st.

40:57So after many of the Reddit posts came out, but before the Nazi tattoo story, the poll shows that Maine Democrats favor Plattner over Governor Janet Mills by a whopping 58 to 24 percent. Mills is overall approval rating with Mainers has also taken a dive since the last UNH poll in August. She's gone from a plus four net approval to a minus 12 disapproval with only 35 percent of independents and two percent of Republicans approving. Alex, we've all talked quite a bit about this story. Some people probably think more than enough that they never want to hear it again. What are your thoughts? I will say this about Graham Platter.

41:35I think if there's one residual effect of the Trump administration or the Trump years, it is that politicians can own their mistakes. and they can be, I think it is a good thing when people in politics admit that they have erred and that they are human. And I'm not saying that to excuse homophobia or potentially racist tattoos or anti-Semitic tattoos or whatever. I just think it is a good development if people feel like they can own their past, they can apologize for it, they can let the voters decide whether the apology is sufficient, but that we don't pretend that people have lived their lives from, you know, the day they were born, hoping to gain office and that they have had experiences and they've made mistakes and they've lived lives.

42:27Because ultimately, I think it serves us as a public to have people who have been in the world and have learned things and have evolved. And I'm, again, not making excuses for Graham Plattner, but I think it is a good thing for us politically to not be so afraid of our past. So I think the way he's approached the sort of scandal here by going out there and talking to people and talking to Tommy and saying like this is, you know, I regret this. I did this, but this was me and it made me who I am today is like that's a good thing. And I don't know that that kind of that kind of mea culpa would have happened before Trump, where it's like nothing.

43:03You can do anything. But no, I think that you can be honestly who you are. And voters will maybe try not they'll understand that. And maybe it's not going to be a death knell for your campaign. So that part is good. You know, I don't know. Dan and I kind of disagree on this. I don't know. I think Janet, I guess I think that I understand the concerns about absolutely being knighted by Chuck Schumer and chosen by the establishment to be the candidate and why that is distasteful. And it is fundamentally anti-democratic. I also think that there is a real difference between someone who's been in the Senate for like six terms and someone who just happens to be old, still wants to fight, has stood up to Donald Trump, said to him in the White House to his face, I'll see you in court.

43:49Like that's a different kind of fighter than some of the aged, albeit wonderful public servants we see in the upper chamber. And I don't think we should, you know, I don't think it's necessarily fair to put her in the same box as, for example, Dick Durbin. OK, not that he's a bad person. And like last but not least, I just am a little bit with Jonathan Martin on this when it's like Democrats do get very enthralled with anti-establishment outsiders who are very charismatic. And, you know, I'm thinking of Beto O 'Rourke and his potty mouth. And, you know, like I do worry a little bit that he's such he is he's good.

44:24He's a good you know, like he's got a lot to recommend him. But I do worry about like whether this is actually someone who's going to win the weird ass state of Maine. It's a weird state. A wonderful state. No disrespect, Mainers. Dan, before you go to that, I'm going to just read you just a quote from what Alex was just referencing, our friend Jonathan Martin's Politico column. And then I'm just going to let you cook. You shouldn't do that. You should not do that. Alex and I are going to set a timer. We'll give you. We need to see. We're going to have to play me off like the Oscars. Just let him have the rest of the show.

45:00So J Mart says the Democrats need to stop, quote, swooning over, quote, political outsider or mostly new name candidates who rely on online video and lean, quote, heavily on compelling biography or powerful oratory, which cause, quote, out of state liberal hobbyists to fall in love and donate. And for journalists to, quote, rush to profile the latest heartthrob before inevitable disappointment when the candidate loses or well becomes John Fetterman. Obviously, a lot to respond to there, Dan. Okay. We like Jonathan Martin. We've known him for a very long time. I think he is a very astute observer of politics.

45:37I don't understand a word he wrote in this piece. Okay. Should we repeat it? Should we have Don reread it? Yeah, I mean, I understand the syllables. I understand the individual words. I just don't understand the point, I guess, is the way I'd say it. So first, the idea that Democrats are constantly falling in love with these crazy outsider candidates who can't win elections is belied by the fact that our last three nominees were Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and then Kamala Harris, who may have been exciting or may not have been, but we didn't have a primary to find out because she was handpicked and no one ran against her.

46:11And so, and in many of those races, there were exciting grassroots progressive candidates who ran and lost and Democrats did not pick those people. So that's one. Two, The examples that Jonathan and also now Alex have cited, I dispute because Beto O 'Rourke was an exciting candidate. He did have a potty mouth. He also did better in Texas than any Democrat in a couple of decades and came very close to winning that race. And there is no – I don't think anyone can credit the argument that there was some safe Texas establishment figure who would have done better than Beto did in that race. The other one that Jonathan Martin cites is Stacey Abrams.

46:51Exciting, got lots of money from out of state. People were really excited about her, very inspiring candidate. She came closer to winning the Georgia governorship than any other Democrat in a very long time. And because of the race she won, Democrats won the Senate seats of John Osloff and Raphael Warnock, and Biden won the state in 2020. And so it's not like once again we put all of our money in hopes in this losing candidate when there was this winning candidate. Amy McGrath, different story. She is someone who raised a ton of money online because everyone wanted to beat Mitch McConnell. I think in part because Senate Democrats, the DSEC, and Chuck Schumer perpetuated this fiction that McConnell was beatable in order to raise more money for the effort to elect Democrats across the country.

47:30It kind of bilked donors out of their money. But once again, there was no other – we didn't pick Amy McGrath over some other candidate who would have done a better job to win. In fact, a few years later when Charles Booker ran against Rand Paul in that same seat, this very exciting progressive candidate, he did just as well as she did, if not a little bit better. And then the last thing I would say, and then let's take the Fetterman thing. Everyone keeps saying this thing like, didn't you guys learn your lessons from Fetterman? As if Fetterman was some unknown person and everyone just fell in love with his hoodies and tattoos and shaved head.

48:01John Fetterman was the two-term lieutenant governor of the state. He had been a very prominent mayor for almost a decade at that point. He was the mayor of Braddock who endorsed Barack Obama in 2008. He was not unknown by anyone. He was very well known. Now he changed all of his positions after he got in his attitude and once he got in office. But that is not the same. That says nothing about Graham Platten or any of these other candidates. Last point on this, and I have one more thing to respond to Alex on, and then I'll be done. I promise. The main thing that bothers me about J. Mart's piece, not Alex, J.

48:32Mart's piece is that is the entire and a lot of the actual anti-Plattener discussion since the posts and the tattoo came about. is this idea that candidates who excite voters are doing some sort of parlor trick, that it's like they're just they're tricking people into liking them. And the attitude from the establishment and some of the media folks is like, you fucking rubes, how did you fall for that trick again? You got all excited about this candidate when you should have just taken the boring candidate we tried to shove down your throats. Instead of like sometimes the grassroots will like a candidate who maybe isn't the best one.

49:08And maybe Graham Plattner is not the best one. He may not be. But sometimes they will like a candidate who is the best one. Like, I don't know, Barack Obama, because that same attitude was what we heard every single day on that campaign. Ooh, look at Obama and his rallies and his celebrities. But what you really got to do is support Hillary Clinton or John Edwards, one of these other long-term politicians. Don't do the newcomer. And when people, instead of dismissing the candidates who get people excited and the voters who get excited by the candidates, the establishment try to figure out why they're getting excited and maybe learn some of those lessons and apply them to their candidates.

49:39Maybe Janet. So last point here. I promise. Maybe Janet Mills will be an exciting candidate. Like she may be. We don't know. Maybe she is a better candidate than Graham Plattner, particularly after all these revelations. I don't know the answer to that, right? I do not know the answer to that. And I don't think anyone else does either. And that's really been my main beef about everyone declaring that he's a worse candidate than her. No one knows because there's a lot of arguments that would show that a two-term establishment governor who is 77 and will be in her mid-80s at the end of her first term.

50:11and is the second least popular governor in America may not be the best candidate either. And so we should just let the voters in Maine figure it out. Okay, I'm done. I'll stop now. It's funny that you mentioned Obama there because, you know, people have been talking quite a bit online. People have a lot of feelings about everything over this last week. There's a lot of people like, are these guys, are the pod guys working for Plattner? And I'm like, it's less about Plattner. I think our reaction is because of like what we experienced on the Obama campaign. I would call it obvious psychology. And I almost started laughing when I was reading the quotes from J.

50:49Mart's piece, but it's like swooning over political outsider or mostly new name, heavily on compelling biography or powerful oratory. Like all of that stuff was said about Barack Obama. And it wasn't just and now people will look back at people who you think, oh, well, Barack Obama left as, you know, he was he was perceived as this establishment Democrat who sort of united the party and all different factions liked him. When he was when we were running against Hillary Clinton, it was like, this guy has no experience. His name is pretty foreign. What has he ever done? He's a communist. Reverend Wright, Bill Ayers.

51:26Like there were some people thought that he was like, there's no way this guy can win. And his tattoos. Don't forget about those. Which we haven't even, which he got away with, which still no one knows about. And his homophobic tirades. And the homophobic, yeah, right. All the stuff he did in the message for it. So it's just like, but it is just to say that I'm talking to Chris Hayes, your colleague Chris Hayes, for Offline this weekend. And we were just talking about Chris's piece in the New York Times about attention and what's required to get attention in politics today. And his point is, on the list of when you're recruiting a Democratic candidate, what's most important?

51:58right now and for a long time what's most important to the dsec to the dcc to the national democratic party is can you raise money and then like what is your resume what is your bio and like do your politics fit with the state or the district that you're and are you safe are you safe right and then way down on the list and sometimes sneered at is can you really connect with voters are you uh like a compelling speaker do you know how to capture attention in a very competitive attention environment right now? And like, can you inspire people? And that is seen as like, just it's like something that warms people's hearts or I don't know, like to take another 2007 example that sends the thrill up Chris Matthews legs.

52:43And it's like, that is not why I care about someone who's a really good speaker. I care about that because I think it actually helps them win and be competitive in a really tough race. And I think that's even more true now in this information environment than it's ever been. And I just worry, again, Graham Plattner aside, that the party has not prioritized candidates, regardless of whether they're on the left, center left, wherever, who can really connect and inspire people. And I just think that that is a, I think that is, I worry most about that than anything else. That's a real problem with the DSEC, I think, because we can have the same argument about who the most electable candidate in Michigan is between Abdul, say, Nellie McMorrow, and Haley Stevens.

53:28Once again, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't think anyone else says either. The DSCC thinks they know the answer. They think the answer is Haley Stevens. And there is absolutely no question, whatever else you think about Haley Stevens, that she is not as good a communicator as Abdul and Mallory, who are excellent communicators and have theories of the case about how you get attention in this day and age. She is a very capable, very typical politician in how she communicates. And so it's clearly not the top of their list. I just want to stipulate what my actual position here is.

53:55I just want to say this again, because everyone's pro-Plattner, pro-Plattner. I have liked Glenn Plattner. I've been impressed by what he's done. I truly have no idea if he's a better candidate than Janet Mills. Same. I really do not. And whoever wins that nomination, I obviously will support them. I will donate to them, all of that. My big issue is that people who assume that the outsider candidate is less electable than the insider candidate, I think, do not fully appreciate the changes in American politics over the last 10 years. I'm definitely not. I just, to be clear, I don't write under the pseudonym Jonathan Martin for political, just in case anybody was worried about that.

54:34I would say there's no chance you two would be confused for each other. Well, you never know. It's a weird time in America. I would never argue that the outsider is doomed by any stretch of the imagination. And guys, I hear what I understand that the Obama candidacy in 2008 was like, I know I was I lived through it, too. And I understand that it was, you know, the the the the trepidation and the concern about his candidacy was very real. But I think that this is something a little bit different. Right. I don't think it's the same as that. I think the guy does have baggage. He's had to explain a lot early on.

55:07and, you know, with constituencies that are important. I think, as I said at the beginning, I think he's done a very admirable job of that. I think if the, I think we're falling into, to your point, Dan, about the establishment and how fucked it is and like, fuck that. What we've learned is also, it doesn't actually matter what the establishment wants, right? Like Trump wasn't who the establishment wanted. He was who the people wanted. So like on a certain level, it's like, congratulations, Chuck Schumer, for convincing a 77 year old to run for one term in the Senate. Like that's the feat. But like whether you're, you know, manipulation or even whether the DSEC funding matter, like, yeah, money matters.

55:42But I also feel like money will come. Like if you're an exciting candidate and people feel like you're going to win, I do think like we are in a day and age where if you are in the culture, if your message is resonating, if you are making an imprint on the election election landscape, like you're going to get the money. And I do think you don't necessarily have to have the framework of the establishment behind you to become the nominee. So, like, I guess it's in that way I'm not as outraged by, like, Schumer's attempt to meddle in all of this because ultimately I'm not sure that it's actually that much of a thumb on the scale.

56:11I could be wrong. No, no, I don't think you're wrong. I think a candidate like Grant Plattner who – I mean he raised more money than – in a similar period of time than Janet Mills did with the help of Chuck Schumer. the, you know, it's a little bit different in Michigan where you have Haley Stevens showing up at DSCC finance retreats, which Janice Mills will be able to either. But I suspect that if Grant Planner survives this period and continues to thrive in this race, he will raise enough grassroots money in a state as small as Maine to compete. There's no question about that. What bothers me even more than just the, it's not just the intervention, it's what it says about their understanding of politics and the lack of humility about what we know about electability in a post-Trump era that bothers me.

56:47Because it says something disturbing about how the people at the top actually have interpreted the 2024 results and how they see politics. Because they're just running the same play they've run every year, every time, as long as I've been around politics. And things have changed a lot recently. The government's still shut down, though. That sure is. You know what? And kudos to them. They have done a very good job throughout the shutdown. By the way, I'm not here to defend Chuck Schumer. Just also, just not. So yeah, Alex takes the Schumer position, and Dan loves the tattoo, is what we are. That is what I'm coming away with.

57:19And you were dealing with, you're dealing with Leighton Obama era trauma. Guys, there's a big couch for all of you. There's a big couch for all of you. Good stuff. Well, fortunately we have till June to keep talking about this. That's the best part, yes. Dan's just going to stay here and talk about this race till then.

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59:12Let's talk about some critical races that are actually happening soon, as in a week from Tuesday. I saw that in the... I was like, a week from Tuesday? Are we that close? Oh, let's start with the 2025 face-off everyone's talking about, the Georgia Public Service Commission. I'm only partly kidding. If you live in Georgia and you don't want to pay higher electricity bills, make sure to get out and vote. This is an important race. It has a lot of ramifications in Georgia. Same for you all in Pennsylvania in the Supreme Court races there. Republican mega-donor Jeff Yass is trying to buy the state's high court.

59:45Do not let him. Go out and vote. Same with all you Californians in Prop 50. Vote yes on Prop 50. I voted today. I had a couple people texting me and they're like, is it yes? Is it no? What's the good one? And I was like, yeah, proposition. It's tough. The language is annoying. I get that. It's yes on 50. I got to get my ballot. I don't know where it is. It's supposed to be at my house somewhere. Anyway, that's my problem. I filled my note today. I know. Interesting. Where could Jon Favreau's ballot be? It's in Heather Honey's pocket right now. Exactly. The California Secretary of State sends a very helpful text to your phone.

1:00:16It's on the way. It says you can track your ballot. So I got all that. I just can't find it. All right. If you don't live in those states, but you have friends and family that do, just give them a reminder. Someone in Georgia, Pennsylvania, here in California. Send them to votesaveamerica.com. Whatever you need to do. Meanwhile, in New York City, polling shows that Zoran Mamdani is in good shape against Andrew Cuomo, But who knows? Cuomo did land the coveted Eric Adams endorsement on Thursday after a contentious final debate between Cuomo, Mamdani and Curtis Sliwa on Wednesday night. Both Mamdani and Cuomo were out there hammering away the next morning on the platforms where they connect best.

1:00:53Mamdani on the hugely popular flagrant podcast and Andrew Cuomo on an obscure local radio show. Let's listen to the two approaches. I also think this idea that New Yorkers are going to flee because of a 2 % increase, it's like, I've been everywhere else. You're not going anywhere. Bill Ackman's not going nowhere. He's going to be in the Hamptons all fucking summer. There's only one place to write those tweets. That's it. New York City. Every character you want. The AC goes out in July in Miami. You're sweating writing tweets. There's no way. He's spending more money against me than I would even tax him.

1:01:26Every day is like a million dollars. It's like a million dollars. I don't even want that. You're going above and beyond. Any given morning, there's a crisis. And people's lives are at stake. God forbid another 9-11. Can you imagine Mondami in the seat? I could. He'd be cheering. Another problem. Well, that's lovely. Let's start with our New York City correspondent, Alex Wagner. I hate New York City. Sorry. I just like barf to all that. I mean, it's fine. Come on out to LA. I'm ready. We've got a bunch of NIMBYs trying to prevent affordable housing from being built. Cool. I'm there. Okay. Momdani's a like generational talent.

1:02:14Amazing. No matter what happens, this guy is like, first of all, to the discussion we were having earlier, like it's just fucking great. It's a shot in the arm for Democrats and progressives to see someone who can so beautifully master the culture and is like a great talker and who's, you know, not just a great talker, but has substantive new bold ideas. Right. Yay, yay, yay. Checkmark, checkmark, checkmark. But New York isn't all like bros. It's not all. I mean, I do worry that anecdotally there are some quiet Cuomo voters who are like in the in the mid. I'm just saying this because I think especially after the 2024 election.

1:02:55What happened there? Yeah. I'll tell you later. I'm not saying that Cuomo is a shoe in, but I would not be surprised if the if the race is tighter than it appears to be right now. There is, you know, New York City is is a diverse city and it is a city that is incredibly tough. And there is still like there are people I know that admire Mom Donnie and think he's amazing, but are genuinely worried about his ability to manage the bureaucracy and fight with Albany. And Cuomo is really was really good at denying New York City funding when he was the governor. But in the inverse, like Trump didn't never paid his taxes, but certainly like he knew how to game the system that way.

1:03:34So why not install him as the head of the federal government in the same way? like Cuomo will be able to, you know, again, I'm not supporting a Cuomo candidacy. I'm just suggesting that I think that there are people in this city and they may not be from, you know, the sort of very online audience that Mom Donnie is speaking so convincingly to, or even the college educated audience. But I do think that there is a subset of New Yorkers who aren't maybe getting polled or maybe not being as vocal that are going to, that could find comfort in Cuomo. And so I guess the only thing I would say in this moment is just like cautious optimism that Momdani is going to be the next mayor, because I think it might be a little bit tighter than people suspect.

1:04:16That's all I'm going to say. I could be proven wrong and it could be a landslide and then everyone will laugh at me, but they're going to do that no matter what. But if not, boy, do we have a clip.

1:04:28I mean, he is he is like running through the tape here. I'm Donnie. He is not and he is he is doing as many interviews as he can he's he's he went pretty hard at cuomo during the debate he is not acting like someone who is 10 points up and i think that is a good way to run a race yep even if you are 10 points up or 15 points up to run like you're 10 points behind i think that's always great and um he's doing a lot of uh i feel like in these last couple weeks sort of um easing the concerns of of the people that you might be talking about right which is like, I'm going to keep the police commissioner and I'm going to like he's.

1:05:02Well, I think that that's a different I almost think that that's like the wealthier New Yorkers who have been reluctant to give him money. You know, he's been tacking more towards the center, at least rhetorically, in terms of not raising alarms around his socialist agenda and also issues like Gaza and Israel. Like there's he's definitely trying to play to a larger audience. But I think there's a more I mean, in the same way that we saw New York, Trump gained in certain areas of the city. Right. Blue collar parts of the city. and I don't know that anything Mamdani is doing right now is something that's even coming across their radar.

1:05:37I think it's going to be maybe as simple as we remember Cuomo, Cuomo can manage the city. I think it's just kind of a basic calculation based on name and recognition. But I agree, Mamdani's not acting like he's 10 points ahead. It's going to be interesting to see how Mamdani does in those precincts that shifted to Trump. like do they just vote for Republican? Was it really affordability and inflation and cost of living that drove them to support Trump? And if that's the case, now maybe it's going to be apples to oranges comparison because the turnout is going to be so different. But that'll be something I'll look at on election night.

1:06:13Next door in New Jersey, Congresswoman Mikey Sherrill appears to be up about five points against former state rep Jack Cittarelli. Reminder that in the last cycle, Phil Murphy won by only three points, but the polls had him winning by more. And of course, in 2024, the state swung 10 points to the right. In fact, Kamala Harris won New Jersey with a smaller vote share than Donald Trump got in Arizona. Dan, has this race been more competitive than you expected? No, I think it's about as competitive as I expected. I mean, it's obviously been a shift in New Jersey that is, as indicated by the 2021 results, that it's not just a 2024 Biden border inflation bump.

1:06:52I think it says something real has happened there. And this is what makes this race so much different than Virginia is we live in the state of perpetual change elections. And Mikey Sherrill is replacing a two-term Democratic governor. And it's always hard to be three terms of the same party. And there's been a lot of concern about her candidacy among Democratic circles. There's been like 15 stories in Axios about panic about this race. And part of it is that she has made a couple of mistakes in interviews, one about her – she struggled to name what her top priority would be, another one where she was on The Breakfast Club and she failed to respond accurately to a very unfair and very inaccurate attack about millions of dollars made stock trading that had been weaponized in ads that are very – especially the one from The Breakfast Club that's very reminiscent of the infamous trans ad from 2024.

1:07:45force that made people nervous. But this was always going to be a close race. It seems like it's a close race. And we have to hope these polls are accurate, I guess. Yeah. In Virginia, Abigail Spanberger is up about seven points, maybe more outside the margin of error. But again, who knows? Virginia also has lieutenant governor and attorney general races that are very tight. The Democratic attorney general candidate, Jay Jones, is tied with his opponent after a scandal over disturbing texts with a Republican colleague from a few years ago where he endorsed political violence. He's since apologized.

1:08:15National Republicans have been all over this trying to get Spanberger to fully denounce him. Alex, the delta between the governor and lieutenant governor races and the AG race certainly suggests that these Joan texts could really matter. What do you think? I just, I guess I can't get over. It's just like, yes, the texts were bad. But like, this is a week when like Trump's nominee for the Office of Special Counsel, Paul and Gracia, admitted last year that he had Nazi tendencies. It's just like, to me, the false... Political violence is not something anybody should endorse, except that the president of the United States pardoned all the January 6 rioters who were guilty of political violence.

1:08:55It's just very hard for me to even accept that the scandal is as big as it is in Virginia and that the National Republican Party is trying to make a big deal of this. It's so reprehensible on so many levels given where their party actually is. But yeah, I mean, listen, I think Abigail Spanberger, I've covered Abigail Spanberger since she was first running for the House. She's an incredibly competent candidate. She absolutely gets it. But what was the question? No, just about the text, which I like. Yeah. I tuned in when it first broke. And I do think that there are some. First of all, it's like you're texting a Republican colleague and you are pretty.

1:09:37You're endorsing political violence. and then you're like yeah maybe maybe and they're like you're talking about the person's children and it's like yeah well maybe sometimes bad things have to happen to someone to change their mind I mean I was like that is some some psycho shit it's bad no no it's definitely bad I'm not saying it's not bad to your earlier point about Plattner though like you know he apologized I think he the apology wasn't quite as it could have been better maybe but he apologized which is to your other point or Jones Jones okay yeah because first he was like this is a He tried to blame the Republican and then they had more text and then the apology was more fulsome.

1:10:14It was one of those things. But to your earlier point, no one's apologizing on the Republican side. Exactly. And it's so much worse. We're Nazis in the group chat and it's cool. It's just that's the world we live in. The Times had an interesting story about how a big part of the message for both Spanberger and Cheryl is tying their opponents to Trump and how there's some unease in the strategist class about missing an opportunity to present a more positive vision. Dan, what do you think? Is this something you worry about or is this just a story? I have a meta concern that the party is continuing to run the same playbook since 2017, which is anti-Trump, anti-Trump, anti-Trump.

1:10:55And presuming the Constitution still stands, and I'd like to believe that it does, we are done running against Trump. So we need a message about Republicans. Because if you look at, and this says something both about Republicans and Democrats, but if you look at Trump's approval rating on all the key issues, inflation, immigration, crime, healthcare, et cetera, it's all underwater. But then when you ask them who they trust more, generic Republicans or generic Democrats, on almost all but our core issues like healthcare and climate change, they trust Republicans more than Democrats. And that's in part because Trump has operated separate from the party in a lot of our minds.

1:11:26And that's been to his great political advantage because it's made it hard to tag him with a lot of the very fair attacks we've done Republicans over the years about like social security, Medicare and abortion and things like that. But now it's helping the Republicans because it's insulating them from some of his worst transgressions. Now, having said all of that, I think in a off year election where you're trying to generate turnout among a depressed Democratic base, I think this is a totally fine and probably good and effective strategy. I mean, they're like, they didn't just pick this off, you know, off the board, they have tested and that's clearly the most effective.

1:11:59So I understand what they're doing here, but I think we have a broader conversation as a party that we should have on this podcast on a different day without a thousand pieces of news, which will maybe happen one day, about the right approach, how to balance anti-Trump versus anti-Republican and positive Democratic messaging. Alex, what do you think? I think we have to silo Dan's thoughts about Maine if we want to be able to get to the substantive conversation. Okay. June 3rd, 2026, we will do this. Is that the day after? I think that's the day after the primary. Oh, the primary's on my birthday?

1:12:29Is it? Maybe I have. Oh, man. Talk about your Obama trauma coming to roost. Oh, my God. It's the psychology is just at the surface, guys. I don't know. It's hard for me to get. I don't. I mean, I hated that story, actually. I was just like a fuck barf. I don't want to like I don't like I don't care. Like just. Yeah, I guess if that's what's going to work, it's just he's doing so many bad things. And you can argue that every Democrat in the country is actually a bulwark against. I mean, every elected Democrat is a bulwark against Trump. And what he's doing is affecting people at the local and state level.

1:13:03So why not make it national? I don't I truly don't know. I don't like I just I completely agree with Dan that the party has to figure out what it stands for and what issues it's going to own. I think part of the problem, and I've said this before, I'll say it again, is the Democratic Party is the pro-democracy party. It is a big fucking tent. And right now it's largely a leaderless tent. There's just no person, there's no figurehead that can actually coalesce everybody into having that family conversation. And so I think it's going to be a while. It might have to wait until after your birthday, John.

1:13:38Unbelievable. I think if you are running for governor, obviously it's good to run on a positive vision because presumably you can do things as governor. I think that most people when they vote in the midterms are going to be like what you just said, which is Trump's doing a whole bunch of bad things. Democrats can't really promise to do a whole bunch. They'll have subpoena power. They can stop any other Trump legislation. They can't do much more beyond that. So you might as well not overpromise anyway. And I think most people who are going to vote in the midterms are thinking, okay, this is a check on Trump and the Republicans, or it's not, or we like what they're doing, right?

1:14:18So I think that that's a different situation. I think once you start looking towards 2028, yes, of course, we need to have a conversation about what we're for and inspire people to actually come vote for something and not just against something. It's a very – it's a conundrum because you can't be a check – be seen as a viable check on power if you are not seen as standing for something and being strong. So you're probably going to have to – the difference between a tiny, slim, barely eke it out Democratic majority and a blue wave is a significant improvement in the brand. People have to believe – even people who don't love Democrats have to believe that we are a credible, strong, realistic check on Trump's power.

1:14:58And they don't believe that right now. Can I just say, I know they did shut down the government, which remains shut down. I'm not even saying it's a fair criticism. No, no, I'm just putting it out there that they are standing firm on the issue of health care. And it is an important issue. It is resonant with the American public. And that is maybe the beginning of the party trying to find its legs on an issue that really matters. Finally, we have to take a minute to discuss the most bizarre moment so far in the 2025 elections, which is saying a lot. Tuesday night's debate between Virginia Lieutenant Governor candidate John Reed and Democrat Ghazala Hashmi on Tuesday night.

1:15:34It was a standard political debate with one major twist. Here's a clip from an ad that Reed released right after. John Reed showed up for a debate. Ghazala Hashmi didn't. So John debated her AI clone instead because even a robot version of Ghazala has more candor and courage than the real one. Yes, yes. The entire debate was between John Reed and an AI version of Ghazala Hashmi. It included fact checks, it included sources. He even asked himself, he had the AI moderator ask himself some tough questions.

1:16:13What? Stop this train, I want to get off. I just feel like we'll look back in 2032 and be like, remember when that was novel? Yeah. Or maybe we'll look back at it like we look back on the hologram of Jessica Yellen in the Situation Room. I do miss those holograms. I do, too. Or John Edwards campaigning in Second Life. Oh, my God. I don't even remember that. You don't remember? Okay. The real ones remember. Tommy will probably know. Tommy will know. This is post-Tommy, but I'm sure he'll remember us. I mean it does raise the question should we just have AI as governing the country we're headed yeah the ballroom is going to transition into an AI data center and all the CEOs are going to be there that tried to pay for it and they're just going to and then they're just going to sort of whatever they do, program the AI to just run the country and kill us all I don't know, I'm like Trump talking about AI what are they talking about?

1:17:15I know. That's a big thing. Everyone's talking about the AI. You don't understand Bitcoin. Anyway, we're fucked. But get out there and tell your friends to vote. VoteSafeAmerican.com. Oh, man. We're not fucked till it's over. We're not fucked till we're fucked. A week from Tuesday. That's when the comeback starts. We're going to get out there and get some votes out. And go subscribe to Runaway Country. When we come back, you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Denise Farazi from the Pipeline Fund. Before we get to that, Crooked Con, two weeks from today. As you may have heard, there are a ton of new speakers added to the November 7th lineup.

1:17:51Lena Kahn, Adam Mockler, Tim Miller, Pramila Jayapal, Jen Psaki, Simone Sanders Townsend. We just posted the full Crooked Con schedule. If you're joining us in D.C. on November 7th, head to CrookedCon.com to start planning your day at Crooked Con. And if you haven't made up your mind about coming, now is your chance. The three of us are all hosting panels. Mine's on Democratic messaging. Dan's is about Graham Plattner.

1:18:16Dan's is about polling. So there you go. You get all the polling stuff. Alex's is about what Democrats would do with the majority if we win it back next year. It's featuring three AI versions of Janet Mills. What about Chuck Schumer? And Chuck Schumer, yeah. No, it's actually going to be Alyssa Slok and Brian Schatz and Pramila Jayapal. Great panel. None of those names are Mills or Schumer. Or Platter. That's a great panel. There are limited tickets left. Make sure to take a look at the full schedule at crookedcon.com and be sure to grab tickets if you haven't. Really putting the FOMO and promo here.

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1:20:21My guest today is the head of the Pipeline Fund, an organization that recruits, trains, supports the next generation of leaders in the Democratic Party. Denise Ferriosi, welcome to Pod Save America. Thanks for having me. It's so great to be here. It's great to finally meet you. I've heard a lot about you and the great work you guys are doing. So for listeners who have not heard of the Pipeline Fund before, can you just explain what you guys do and how it came to be? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So, you know, the Pipeline Fund, I think probably those of us who have worked in politics for any number of years have long lamented the lack of a bench in the Democratic Party.

1:20:57I know since I've been doing this work, it's something I've heard over and over. Um, so really this became, it was an idea kind of after the 2016 elections, when we saw a huge number of folks, I think for the first time, um, in a long time, looking at running for office as like a real outlet for change and like wanting to figure out how to do that. And there were all these new groups, um, popping up, you know, like run for something and other organizations. And so we started asking the question, like, how can we use this moment to finally work on building a real bench? Like, how can we make sure that this kind of 2018 cycle is not a flash in the pan, but something that we can continue?

1:21:40And so that's how the Pipeline Fund came to be. We basically looked around and said, gosh, now we have this enthusiasm for running. We have all these great organizations, right? Young people are being recruited and supported by Run for Something and women by Emily's List and Emerge. And, you know, there's a long list of groups that do this kind of work. And it's not just national groups. It's groups in the states as well. And so we thought, well, what really is missing is how do we actually connect all of that work strategically to make sure that we're getting as many great leaders running in as many districts as possible this cycle and beyond.

1:22:19And so that's what we do. We kind of serve as a space to make sure that, you know, the national groups are working with groups on the ground in key states to make sure we're recruiting great leaders from their communities into the most important places in this moment. And just essentially make sure all that work is scaled strategically so that we have a bench for now and in the future. And you guys are focused on creating individual state-based organizations, right? Why is that? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, we are, we really believe that in order to get someone to run for office, right, which let's be honest, it's not 2017, 2018.

1:22:59It's a different environment, right? And it can be really challenging in what was a normal environment to run for office. But you just add the elements that we're seeing today with, you know, political violence, safety, not to mention like time. People have to have jobs and then they run for office, which can be a full time job in itself. So we really think that folks on the ground need to be there to work with people, to identify them, to convince them that they can and should run for office, to help them plan for that. and then to be there, right, when they do run to help them, you know, find staff and navigate the complexities of a campaign.

1:23:39And then also when you become a first-time elected official, kind of support them in that new role because it's really different from campaigning. I don't need to tell you that. So we really think that the way to make sure that we have a bench for the future is to have folks on the ground who are doing this work year in and year out. Like we are recruiting now for 26 and frankly for 28 too. And then to be a center of gravity so that they can, once they've got a great person on the line, call those national groups and say, hey, Emily's List, we really need your help. We've got a great woman, but she needs a finance director or she needs to be trained.

1:24:16And so that's kind of the way that we're going to do this, make it sustainable, make sure that we're being really smart because recruiting someone in Texas is different than recruiting someone in Wisconsin where I live. And the folks on the ground know those distinctions, right? Yeah. Well, that was actually exactly what I want to ask you. Like in a state like California where I am or in Wisconsin where you are, there are tons of Democrats who are elected officials in the state that you can lean on. There's local parties, there's basic infrastructure. Wisconsin's got a famously excellent Democratic Party.

1:24:49But there are red states out there that are just kind of barren for the Democratic Party. Like there's no infrastructure, there's no muscle memory, there's no institutional knowledge or, you know, people who can help you like identify the person in the community in Nebraska that is a big progressive that would like to run, but maybe hasn't gotten that push. How do you build a pipeline in a deep red state to both source those candidates and then also kind of steer them to run in the right races and then support them as they go? Yeah, it's a great question. And honestly, one that we're like navigating right now because we are on the ground in 14 states, but we are actually working with stakeholders and folks on the ground in another 21 states to build pipeline organizations that do this year-round work.

1:25:36And you can imagine you don't get to that number of states without working in really deep red states. You mentioned Nebraska, where we are working with folks to start a new organization. And it's really interesting. In these states where there's just not a lot of infrastructure and there hasn't been investment, folks on the ground know the way to start that is actually by starting with developing leaders, right? We need people to run campaigns. We need people to consider running for office. And we need to help build the leadership of operatives across the state. And so that's honestly where I think a lot of folks are starting right now is we recognize we can't just play in a set of, you know, eight to 10 swing states.

1:26:22We've got to think bigger. And we are working with people in those red states to say, okay, where do we want to start? What are the unique dynamics of your state? You may not be in spitting distance of flipping a state legislature, but we can work on really key county seats and school boards, which are everywhere, and kind of show what it looks like to have good leaders who are not these kind of right-wing extremists governing as a way to build. So that's what we're doing right now. And it's actually really exciting. Yeah. I mean, well, can you tell us a success story? Like, is there an individual or a state where things are going really well that kind of tells that broader story?

1:27:02Oh, my gosh. There's so many. I have to say, it's hard to pick, right? It's like your kids. You can't say which one is your favorite, but let me try. I'll give you one, a new state that we're working in that I think is probably top of mind for everyone at this time in the cycle. You know, Virginia is a place, right, every off year we're all talking about Virginia because of their state ledge and governor's race. You know, they also have, you know, a strong party and great folks on the ground, but we did start a new group there because they recognized that There needed to be more state and local infrastructure.

1:27:40And so we helped launch a group called Build the Bench in January of this year. And they worked with partners across the ecosystem to recruit candidates to run in all 100 House of Delegates seats. And these are amazing candidates. There are majority women. There are lots of women in color. But there's also farmers, small business owners, teachers. And so we're really excited about what that looks like when you are kind of running, you know, in different places across the common, you know, across the Commonwealth. So that's one. But Virginia, everybody knows. The other one that I always like to highlight because people don't think of it as a success story typically on our side of the aisle, and that's Florida.

1:28:27We work with an awesome organization called the Florida Pipeline Project. and back in 2022, they launched this school board protection project to fight back against Moms for Liberty and also Governor DeSantis, who has been super engaged in these local school board races. And it took a while. They got folks to run. But in 2024, we had 80 % of their candidates win their races at the school board level. That's remarkable. It's wild and no one knows about it, Right. So I think that's the thing. It's about finding these places where you can have local success and where those implications are real for people on the ground.

1:29:05And it's just a great example of where, boy, you you you peel off a fraction of the money that gets dumped into TV ads in the last two weeks of an election to do this long term organizing. And you have this massive impact. Yeah. I mean, like if for no other reason, I like to tell folks it's a cheap date. Right. I mean, you can put a little bit of money and have a huge impact. I mean, the investment that we helped make with partners on the ground in Florida to win all those races was a million dollars. Like that's, you know, and I know. Nothing in the Florida Senate race. That's a lot of money for politics where we spend billions of dollars on federal races.

1:29:42It's nothing. And so the Georgia Senate race can be a half a billion dollar race, like a million dollars in Florida gets you nothing. Right. Right. Statewide. And even in a congressional. So, you know, I mean, I think that's the like, that's the big message here is like we as a party, we have to stop only focusing on these big federal races. Now, I am never going to try to convince someone to not focus on winning back the House in 2026. We have to do that. And we also, if we moved a small fraction of the money that is spent on those races down to the state and local level, we could literally win tens of thousands of races in 2026.

1:30:22And that's not only now, but that's for like the future of who's running for Congress in a couple of years. And, you know, our friends over at Vote Save America have been running this pilot program where we've been telling our audience that lives in Arizona, North Carolina and Texas in particular to go to votesaveamerica.com slash run if you want to sign up to run for office in those states. And we have, I think, 2 ,500 people have already signed up and taken that initial step. Now, some of those people will wash out and they'll learn more and they'll decide this is not for me, but that's still a lot of people.

1:30:54700 of them are from Texas. We've got people in towns as small as 4 ,000 people deciding to run. The average age is 38, which is pretty exciting when you think about kind of the gerontocracy challenges the Democratic Party has been facing recently. And the most remarkable thing I learned from our team over at Vote Save America was that 70 % of the people that have signed up to run for office have never done anything with Vote Save America before. I sort of thought you would see this ladder of engagement that's like, I'm text banking, I'm phone banking. I'm knocking on doors. Now I'm running. 70 % were just like, you know what?

1:31:30I'm taking the plunge. Now's the moment for me, which speaks to the power of asking and then having some infrastructure to support those people. Because it's one thing to say, run for office. You can do it. But if you just kind of jump in with no one there to help you, it's unlikely to go as well. Yeah. No, I mean, we are so excited about this. And I also think we're really excited to partner with Vote Save America on this like state-based approach, right? I think there are a lot of efforts that have been launched that are just kind of more broad national efforts. And those are great. And I am a wholehearted supporter of that.

1:32:05But it's really hard to do this state work. And I give you all a lot of credit for trying it with us. And it's working. It's really exciting. You know, those people that you mentioned in Texas, our partners on the ground at Annie's List are literally like they have organizers, like just calling through and talking to these people one on one about what they care about, how that matches up with a potential office that's available or a good opportunity in their area. And then like, really kind of talking through what that looks like and what it means, sending them to trainings, connecting with our national partners at NDTC and run for something for additional resources.

1:32:44it's really exciting, you know, and I think in this moment, it's also really exciting to people see people stepping up in this way. Yeah, I mean, like in 2017, when you're talking about kind of founding the pipeline fund, I mean, there was all this energy, there's all these organizations sprouting up, there were random podcasts sprouting up, you know, like, there felt like a moment when we all felt like engaged and inspired. And that's been missing a bit, at least in terms of the protests or the visible effort. So it's great to know that all this work is happening behind the scenes. Again, votesaveamerica.com slash run if you want to get involved in the filing deadlines for North Carolina and Texas are in December.

1:33:18So sooner rather than later. Is there a Republican version of you guys that's out organizing us? Like what's the competition like on the other side? What's the process as far as you know? Yeah, no, we did a lot of research actually on this when we first started to say like, what are we up against? And it's really different. The truth is they have a lot fewer, much larger and better funded organizations. So you think about, you know, the like Koch Network, but really there's this group called the Leadership Institute. Of course, there's, you know, Turning Point. There's all of these organizations.

1:33:53But there are, I mean, I would say compared to our dozens of organizations, there's like four or five leading ones. And they're all like funded to the tune of like, you know, 25 to 50 million a year. Whereas our side is, you know, we're lucky on our side for these national groups to have $10 million a year. And so I think the other really big difference is they've just been doing this for a really long time. Like they haven't just discovered this work. They've been really committed to state and local work for a long time. And they don't they they they continue to do it every cycle, regardless of who's in the White House, who's in control of the Senate.

1:34:32And so I think, you know, we are up against, you know, a side that is playing the long game. And we know that we've seen that that's not just about pipeline and leadership development and state and local offices. It's what they do. I mean, so I think it's incumbent on us to really think about how we can play the long game and not, you know, give up on and really like start to focus a little bit more of our resources and time on these state and local offices. Yeah. Final question for you. I mean, how can people listening get in touch with you guys if they're thinking about running, if this sounds exciting to them, or if they just want to support the organization in some other way?

1:35:09Like, can they donate? What's the process? Yeah, absolutely. Look, we are at pipeline.fund. You can go there. You can donate if you are willing. And again, a little goes a long way when it comes to these state and local offices. I mean, school board races can be won by like, you know, five votes and for$20 ,000. So definitely donating. And if you're interested in running, go to our website, look at our state map. We can connect you to national and state partners who can help you every step of the way. And we need more folks because guess what? There are, I think it's almost 100 ,000 offices on the ballot in 2026 alone.

1:35:49Jesus. That's a lot of races. A lot. Yeah. And we will not win any of them if we don't run candidates. So that is the key. Denise, thank you so much for the work you're doing. Thanks for joining the show. It was great talking to you. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

1:36:07That's our show for today. Thanks to Denise Ferriosi for coming on. and thanks to Alex for being with us. Everyone, make sure you subscribe to Runaway Country wherever you get your podcasts. Tommy, Love, and I will be back with a new show on Tuesday. Bye, everyone. Bye, guys. That was beautiful. We did it. We did it, guys. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Also, please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Crooked.

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