1087: Did Trump Blow It on the Epstein Files?

25:02By the way, I was watching Megyn Kelly talk about this, and she said the real sin for Marjorie Taylor Greene was doing it on CNN. Because the one thing you never do is talk about Donald Trump on CNN. That's the kind of shit. That's tribalism. That's the kind of shit I'm talking about, right? Like, that is the okay. So anyway, all this gets at a much bigger issue, which is the deepening realization among some Republicans that Trump is, in fact, a lame duck and fairly unpopular on top of that. Congressman Thomas Massey, the one Republican who's consistently been willing to buck Trump and who co-sponsored the Epstein files discharge petition with Roe, laid things out for his colleagues in an appearance on ABC on Sunday morning.

25:39I would remind my Republican colleagues who are deciding how to vote. Donald Trump can protect you in red districts right now by giving you an endorsement. But in 2030, he's not going to be the president and you will have voted to protect pedophiles if you don't vote to release these files. and the president can't protect you then. So I think we all probably want Republicans to believe what Massey said is true, that he's a lame duck and you should not have to fear him anymore. To what extent do you guys think they'll listen? I talked about this with Roe too. I mean, Massey is sort of nodding at this bigger problem you mentioned there, which is that Trump's iron grip on Republicans has clearly slipped.

26:21We have evidence of that in so far as the Republicans willing to sign this discharge petition before Trump had his change of heart. Let's call it that. And, you know, I think Massey's just pointing out the obvious fact that Trump won't be around forever. I still don't think we know how long he's going to be around for. You know, the guy could decide to like sit in Mar-a-Lago and be kingmaker on the internet for a decade and endorse in every primary and, you know, attack people for perceived slights and pick sides on issues and still just be a real problem. But I think what Tom Massey realizes and Marjorie Taylor Greene realizes is there's strength in numbers.

26:53And the more people that, you know, defections from Trump will beget more defections and, you know, we'll see more Kurds. So hopefully he's right there and people take it to heart. Like, will there be primaries run on whether or not you voted to release the Epstein files? I'm a little more skeptical of that, but it's a bigger point, I think. Yeah, I tend to think these guys aren't long-term thinkers. I think this is a little bit of wishful thinking. And more than that, I actually think when he says Trump will be gone, but you will have voted to conceal information and protect pedophiles. It's less about saying what the future will be and more reminding them what the politics of this vote were, but for Trump, that the politics of this vote, obviously they all want to vote fucking yes on this.

27:33And the only reason they wouldn't is because Trump would pose a threat. And so I think it boils down to, they'd rather be 30 duck-sized Trumps facing one Trump-sized duck. You know what I mean? And that it's much less, this is a way of, that is a signal about strength in numbers than it is about some Trump-less future. I mean, the one thing that's been true in the Trump era is that when he is on the ballot with other Republicans, he brings a lot of them over the line and his voters come out and it helps a lot of Republicans who are otherwise unpopular. And when he's not on the ballot, they're sort of on their own.

28:05And the Republicans have actually been doing quite poorly in the last 10 years when Donald Trump's not on the ballot. And when you think about this, like he's he's never going to be on the ballot with Republicans again. I think they're starting to finally realize this. It was probably like an understated point when he admitted that he cannot run for a third term. Now we know why he was trying to, one reason he might've been trying to keep that out there because it did sort of save him from lame duck status. I think his last hurrah here is trying to endorse primary opponents in the upcoming midterms to the extent that that works.

28:36And I don't even know if it will. Not so good in 2022. Not so good in 2022. And we even have talked about the Indiana Republicans because he is like, you know, threatening them that they better gerrymander their map, mid-district and advanced in the midterms. And they've basically held strong and told him to fuck off. And, you know, he's like tweeting all these kinds of primary threats at them. And so far, it's not moving them at all. One of the guys who's a Republican leader in the state legislature was swatted, which is the it's funny because if it was a normal president that didn't hasn't acted like an authoritarian and used like implicit threats of either losing your job or worse or violence, then we'd be like it's like george w bush in the second term of of his uh of his presidency when it was just like all the republicans were just jumping ship and they didn't want anything to do with george w bush and that was it i do think one of the things that keeps people afraid of trump is that he has this like large apparatus in the state the power of the state where he like goes after people and it's kind of scary yeah like i don't know how long that lasts well it also it's um it's a much more potent threat because once you've used it it's really more about the next fight, right?

29:45Once Trump has called you out and swatted you and done all of this, you faced it. You're on the other side of it. Now that is meant to what could roll and convince the next state over to do the redistricting, lest you fall prey to the same attacks. But, you know, he posted something awful about, so Thomas Massey's wife had passed away and he remarried and Trump posts something just so awful about like - Passed away last year. Yes. And he met and married someone. Which is fine. I'm just saying like to attack him for his wife dying last year. Right. Well, he's attacking him for getting married too quickly as if there's something shady or despicable about that without knowing the man's life.

30:22And a bunch of people. Someone attacking him, someone who reveres the institution of marriage. Yeah, absolutely. And so a bunch of people came to Massey's defense, in part because I think people view Massey as a sincere operator as well. And also because, first of all, we've done this before. Trump has done this for so long, just doesn't pack the same punch. And so you go after the guy in Indiana. He's now been gone after. He's on the other side of it. Where's your power? What happens? Well, just imagine a scenario where we do well in the midterms, Democrats do well in the midterms, and the Republicans who are left in Congress who've kept their jobs now see what just happened to a bunch of other Republicans.

31:00And Donald Trump is now really a lame duck president. We're heading into the presidential election in 2028. Then I think you start seeing people jump ship. I hope so. I mean, what he did to Thomas Massey was just so unbelievably cruel. This man's wife of 35 years, they have four kids together, passes away, and you attack him on Twitter because he disagrees with you. You want to vote to protect pedophiles? Like, I think that was probably like scales off moment for a lot of people. Just what a vicious, cruel person he was. I mean, I think like I hope there's more defections. I do think there's a history in the Republican Party of politicians clinging to the last guy way longer than they should.

31:34Like Reagan did it with Nixon. Nixon did it with Goldwater, all because the next person to run for president knows that the base is going to like Trump for a very long time. And they're going to want to reach those voters. So we'll see. But, you know, it would be nice if they all were just a little bit less afraid of him. I mean, I think this is why J.D. Vance is not going to have the easiest time getting the nomination. He still might. But like he's stuck because he can't be critical of Donald Trump because he's the vice president. And so he's going to have to do the he's going to be on The View someday.

32:02And they're going to say, is there anything you would have done differently? No, nothing. He's going to say nothing comes to mind. Nothing comes to mind. That's going to be his thing. So, you know, they very well could be a challenger of the populist right style. Tucker Carlson or someone like that to J.D. Vance's right. It's also just it's just getting ahead of myself. I know. I know. There's a funny, a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, Trump is threatening a third term. We're kind of in this authoritarian dissent. And it is amazing how normal, a version of normal politics kind of manages to intercede.

32:31It is sort of part of the weakness, the inherent weakness in any sort of effort to like accumulate so much power, which is like, these are all human beings and their actual differences start to break through. Like democracy has self-defense mechanisms built into it. And it has been heartening to see. It doesn't mean things aren't dangerous and democracy isn't at risk, but we have some wind in our backs here. I know, but you know, it's funny. I had that same thought and I've had it since because the elections went well. Then he's clearly on his heels on this Epstein stuff and affordability. And then over the weekend when I saw like ICE arrive in Charlotte and just the brutality and then, you know, more investigations into more Democrats he doesn't like and all this kind of stuff.

33:13I'm like, you know, as he becomes more unpopular and and as his people, Stephen Miller, J.D. Vance, all the rest of him feel it slipping away like they will get more dangerous and they do have a lot of power. And so I do worry about like the next turn of this where they're feeling cornered and then start just, you know, clamping down even harder. Blowing up boats in the Caribbean, potential war with Venezuela, immigration, crackdown, the efforts to go after political enemies. And then on the other hand of it, you have the Comey investigation potentially falling apart. It's going to be a fucking messy slog, but it's not foretold is all.

33:47Yeah.

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35:00helixsleep.com slash crooked. This is Brian Tyler Cohen, host of the No Lie podcast, which is part of Crooked Media. You've likely seen my videos online or watched me torture Tommy Vitor as part of our series on YouTube. But this week, I've got a really exciting episode. I'm interviewing the 44th president of the United States, Barack Obama. So if you want to tune in and hear what he's got to say, including a definitive answer as to whether or not aliens are real, make sure to listen by searching for No Lie with Brian Taylor Cohen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

35:35Speaking of Republican defections, We also have a new development in the intramaga fight over whether or not Hitler fans are good. We've talked about how this got kicked up after Tucker Carlson invited white nationalist lunatic Nick Fuentes on his show for a softball interview where none of his most vile comments were challenged. Trump got asked about this on Sunday night. Here's what he said. We've had some great interviews with Tucker Carlson, but you can't tell him who to interview. I mean, if he wants to interview Nick Fuentes, I don't know much about him, but if he wants to do it, get the word out.

36:05Let them, you know, people have to decide. Ultimately, people have to decide. You yourself, I did it with Nick Cuentes at Mar-a-Lago a few years ago. What role should he play in the conservative movement? Well, I didn't know he was coming, and he was with, as you know, somebody. Kanye. Meeting people, talking to people, like for somebody like Tucker, that's what they do. You know, people are controversial. Some are, some aren't. I'm not controversial, so I like it that way. That's just funny. That last line was just funny. Get the word out was confusing. What did get the word out mean? Get the word out about Tucker interviewing someone?

36:40I can't tell if it was just like, it's more of like a let people decide, you know, you decide. Yeah, that's fair. Because he's very big on just the interview going out as is and not complaining about it, you know? Most of that was, yeah. Most of that was the defense of Tucker Carlson. Paging 60 Minutes. Most of that was the defense of Tucker Carlson. And I think just an instinctive sense that anything that like touches the stove of cancel culture against conservative is going to be very unpopular among Republicans. Of course, we're always good with canceling Democrats, and we always will be. That's the hypocrisy here.

37:11I do, I mean, it was weird. I mean, he was never, Trump was also never willing to admit he made a mistake, especially not to a reporter at a gaggle. So he wasn't going to be like, yeah, I probably shouldn't have dined with that neo-Nazi. I do think the way he's telling the story there is sort of how it's been told by Fuentes and others, which is like Kanye West had a dinner with Trump scheduled, and then like Nick Fuentes came, and maybe Trump didn't know who he was, or maybe he did and he just didn't do anything about it. But it's all just very weird. But the funny thing about that is like, Fuentes is shitting on Trump right now.

37:41He's saying MAGA is dead. He's attacking him over Epstein. He's attacking him on Iran, on Gaza. The list goes on and on. Either Trump doesn't know that or like J.D. Vance, he's too much of a wimp to punch back to anyone to his right. And Fuentes, in addition to just being vile and horrible, is quite a troll. And of course, posted, thank you, Mr. President, in response to that. even though he's been shitting all over him. Yeah, so 2017, there's the Unite the Right rally. Heather Heyer is killed. He goes out there and he says many sides, very fine people on both sides. In between the two statements in which he made those kinds of moral equivocations, he went out to the podium and he said, racism is evil.

38:25And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis and white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans. He did that in part because there was a massive backlash to what he had said at first. And he was facing, which feels like from another era, threats of resignation from inside the White House because he was so equivocated so much. Committee to Save America was up in arms. And a year later, Bob Wood reports that Trump considered this to be the biggest fucking mistake I've made, the worst speech I've ever given because he was conceding.

38:58So then he goes out the next day. That's actually when he makes the most famous version of the comment, which is very fine people on both sides. And from that moment, he has really taken this to heart that you that you kind of when you are pressed by the media on these far right figures, you don't give an inch. You say you don't know. You say you're you say it that you hedge. You're not familiar, but you don't concede and you don't punch these alt right figures. You don't punch to the right if you want to call it that. And so I think that's what he's that's what he's just doing here again. It's saying where he didn't hear the question about David Duke, stand back and stand by.

39:34Like this is this is what he does. Right. He's being he's sending a signal to these kinds of people that he's not going to take a swipe at them while talking to like mainstream reporters. I do think the more interesting question here is the staying power of this rift beyond Trump. I know, Tommy, you follow this closely. the impact on jd vance on tucker like where this goes from here what do you think i think this debate is about the future of the maga movement this is the whole thing and or at least that's how nick fuentes is is framing it and he's saying maga's dead america first is the future and america first is how i define it which is uh far more right wing and reactionary and anti-semitic and basically fuentes like fuentes is calling out um some real republican hypocrisy which is that he says, I could walk out on stage or I'll turn on my show tomorrow and say, Islam is a disgrace.

40:25We should kill all Muslims. We should banish them from our country. And no one in the Republican Party would bat an eye. Or I could log in and say something really, really racist and I would face no blowback from the Republican Party. But if I say something that's anti-Semitic, I face all this blowback. And so he is observing something that is true about MAGA and what they say about cancel culture. but he's doing it in service of making the entire movement anti-Semitic even more vile, which speaks to how dangerous he is. Right, yeah. His point is there shouldn't be an exception. Right, right. He's like, he wants the Islamophobia applied to the Jews.

41:00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because he's like, look at Laura Loomer. She's Trump's friend. She's in the White House, right? Like she said all these vile things. If you find and replace Islam for Judaism, why does that make me outside the pale? and like I think that argument has a lot of purchase on the far right and it's a scary thing it's also wild to me that um JD Vance is still not so like in 2024 in the summer 2024 JD Vance was interviewed by Margaret Brennan asked about Nick Fuentes it's the only time he's been asked about Nick Fuentes because he had just said something horrible about Usha and he said oh he's a total loser and that was that but in this latest uh dust up has said nothing and then over the weekend um someone on twitter i didn't recognize um said something about uh how tucker carlson's son uh buckley i believe works for uh jd vance is like a top staffer for jd vance and was like well jd like somehow said well because of tucker and it's tucker's son and tried to like attack jd vance via tucker's son and whatever and jd vance like flipped out did one of his like i'm start doing a whole tweet thread to someone random on Twitter.

42:10And it's just wild that he like, I understand that he came to the defense of his staffer who he likes, but he does all this and still says nothing about Fuentes, nothing about Tucker. He's just completely just skipped this debate. He went looking for a place inside of this story where he could be aggrieved without commenting on the main story itself. Pete Buttigieg was asked about Vance in an interview and said, do you think J.D. Vance is a fascist? And Pete's answer was awesome. It was something like I think J.D. Vance will be a fascist if it's useful to be a fascist. It's useful for him to be something else.

42:42He'll be something else. He'll be a Silicon Valley Democrat again if he needs to be. And I do think that just captures the man so perfectly. Pete and I talked about this when I interviewed him. And I'm not sure I agree. I feel like there's a chance that J.D. Vance has been, I don't know if he genuinely believes at all, but I think he is now in a place where he justifies to himself that all of these views aren't really as bad as he used to think they are. Oh, I absolutely - Like, I don't think he's going back anytime soon. I don't know what going back looks like. I don't, you know, part of being such a political animal is knowing that he can't change back.

43:17Yeah. But so he's a bit stuck and he can, like a great politician, he'll be for what he needs to be for. But I do think that that speaks to a lot of how he got to where he is. And yeah, I'm sure he has talked himself into it and how he didn't understand the deep, the deep intellectual rigor that sits just beneath the surface of MAGA. Like, I know he seems to have convinced himself of that. I think he's also seen that being a class traitor has worked really well for Trump. And in a way, J.D. Vance is sort of a class traitor in terms of like, you know, he was in these elite circles in Silicon Valley and did all this stuff.

43:51And it's trying to say, like, oh, I've seen the elite in the establishment. And let me tell you, they're really bad. Did you see the Axios story on Ted Cruz, how he's been very critical of Tucker and Fuentes, and they're framing this as him sort of laying the groundwork for a 2028 primary run against the J .D. Vance's of the world because he's going to be the pro-Israel calling out anti-Semitism candidate in the Republican Party. I would love to see Republican parties defeat the Groypers. Ted Cruz cannot be your fighter. Please choose a better fighter. He was the last, I agree, but he was the last man standing in 2016.

44:30And he actually, up until the moment he said one brave thing at the convention and then gave up on it five seconds later. Counterpoint. He held on. His face and personality and whole vibe. I know, I know. Good counterpoint, strong. But he was the last one. He made it all the way. He made it further than anybody else. Yeah, well. I think those days, I think it was a different time and a different moment for the Republican Party. Yeah, if I had to bet on where the energy is in the Republican primary, it would be not with Ted Cruz for sure. For sure, yeah. Honestly, unfortunately, as much as I detest Ted Cruz, I would rather that side win for America here.

45:02Than the Gripers. I worry much more about the Tucker-Nick Fuentes segment of this party. Believe it or not, this is supposed to be affordability week at the White House, which seems like one reason they're trying to push Epstein out of the news. Trump's also speaking after we record this on Monday night at a conference on affordability hosted by McDonald's. I should do the trick. Perhaps he'll talk there about his latest attempt to take credit for solving a problem that he caused. The White House announced late last week that Trump's eliminating tariffs on around 200 food items, including staples like beef, coffee, bananas and orange juice.

45:35The problem for Trump's economic advisers is that they're still not allowed to acknowledge either mistakes or reality, especially when it comes to the economy. Here's White House, top White House economist Kevin Hassett, really struggling through interviews with ABC's John Carl on Sunday morning and CNBC's Joe Kernan on Monday. The president claims that Thanksgiving costs are down 25 percent. I mean, does he know that's not true? Well, if you look at Walmart and the few places that put out their prices. Wait a minute, I got to stop because the Walmart comparisons like not. I mean, Walmart had a Thanksgiving package last year.

46:12They've got a Thanksgiving package this year. The one this year contains much less than what the one last year took. So that's why the price is less. If you're going to the store to buy groceries for Thanksgiving, it's going to be more expensive this year. I really don't understand where you're going in the sense that Joe Biden gave us 20 percent inflation. He's not president. Donald Trump's president. When you keep saying prices are falling, that's not true. And I think you should admit that. A more precise way to say it, though, Joe, is that purchasing power has gone up. So real wages, that's W divided by P for our technical people in the audience.

46:48Put him out everywhere. They're economic. They have a crack economic team. We got the soybean farmer, Scott Besson out there crushing it. Kevin Hassett. It's wild. If you had to choose between, I was thinking about this. If you had to choose one person to go out to defend the administration, would you choose Besson or would you choose Hassett? Oh, Besson all day. I think Hassett's got like this hapless chipmunk vibe. He's like always kind of like trying to laugh his way through being an idiot. I do think, it really kind of just highlights your out of touch. Give me the corpse all day. No, no, it was really, really good.

47:20Thank you, sorry, yeah. It was like he was in the room, right? Yeah, but you see that Hassett in that interview was asked about the labor market being soft and he said that he thought the labor market was in a bit of a quiet time. He said that it was in a quiet time because of AI and he's like quiet, like be very quiet. The economy was sleeping. I hate that I'm about to say this, but a more effective messenger would be even fucking Stephen Miller than these guys because he would just scream and bowl the interviewer over. I'll kill your family. Right. You need at least a fucking America First messenger out there to just do the other side.

47:53But these two fucking... It is struggling. I want them out there all the time. They're great. In their defense, it is tough to walk out there and be like, isn't it great we got rid of all these tariffs we put in place? How awesome is this, everybody? I was banging my head against the wall. feel so good when I stopped. That's why literally the only option is to scream over the interviewer, which neither of these two are going to do. So obviously the, uh, I think we'd all agree that they're not crushing the messaging just yet, but on the best case scenario for Trump and Republicans is that they alleviate some of the tariff pain, potentially figure out a way to send out some kind of tariff dividend check to people before the midterms, which Trump again floated, uh, in the oval to, uh, on Monday and do something on healthcare, which we'll get to in a second.

48:33And then I guess hope that people's economic reality eventually catches up with their messaging that everything's great. But I don't know. I'm just trying to I'm trying to give them their best the best case here. But what do you guys think? The best case is no one sees that interview, first of all. And then people feel some sort of slight decrease in prices. But I mean, I think inflation is down from the worst kind of like nine percent peak of the Biden era. But it's still at around three percent, which is above the Fed's target of two percent. And it's quiet time in the labor market. And it's quiet.

49:00It's shh. Don't pay for sleeping. But also like, well, we make room for the robots. Oh, God. But like the real price of prices of goods are not going to come down in real terms. So people are not going to feel like there is relief. There's no silver bullet for Trump when it comes to housing, for example, even a 50 year mortgage or a 500 year mortgage were ever going to float. I guess like he could like pull together OPEC and be like engineer some dip in gas prices. But I don't even think that's real. So at the same time, though, he's demanding a Fed rate cut. he's going for this tariff dividend idea, both of which would exacerbate inflation.

49:35So I guess the best option is better messaging that shows you care, you hear people, you're fighting for them. But instead, the message coming out of Donald Trump's mouth is like, this is all bullshit. Things are fine. Stop talking about it. Yeah. So first of all, you have to get a tariff dividend check through Congress, or at least one would think you'd have to get it through Congress. or they could try to come up with some way around that. And so that's some deficit. The only way it makes sense is if it's deficit spending. It's not putting more money in people's pockets. If you're not putting money in people's pockets, if you're just returning the tariffs back to people, you're not lowering the cost of living.

50:11Also, you'd have to do it through a reconciliation bill next year, which again has to be revenue neutral. That has to be deficit neutral on that. So like, that's not gonna work. Or you just do it like the East Wing, you know? Yeah, right. Just send it a check. But I don't know how you do it through a Republican house. You run the machines. Just print the money. Turn it on. I don't get this through a house that already feels like they were bullied into getting behind the last spending bill. They put all their money into tax cuts for the wealthy. There's just no way to make it work. We're not even talking about the fact that if the Supreme Court rules against him, there's not going to be a lot of revenue to give out from the tariffs.

50:47Though politically, that might save him or might help him. Maybe. I don't know. I mean, maybe it stops some of the pain, but even, let's say you even follow this to its like logical end, and he sends some$200 to$500 tariff check to half the country. Does that resolve the fact that people feel like their cost of living has gone up, that they have not been made better off by this? People understand that a one-time check doesn't undo what their daily experience is. Yeah.

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52:23And right now you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash crooked. Again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash crooked. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. This is Brian Tyler Cohen, host of the No Lie podcast, which is part of Crooked Media. You've likely seen my videos online or watched me torture Tommy Vitor as part of our series on YouTube. But this week I've got a really exciting episode. I'm interviewing the 44th president of the United States, Barack Obama. So if you want to tune in and hear what he's got to say, including a definitive answer as to whether or not aliens are real, make sure to listen by searching for No Lie with Brian Taylor Cohen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

53:05Well, let's talk healthcare just for a minute. On January 1st, premiums will go up for 20 million people when the Affordable Care Act subsidies expire. A few weeks before that, as part of the shutdown deal. Democrats are supposed to get a vote in the Senate on whether or not to extend the ACA subsidies. But instead of just coming out in support or opposition to that extension, Trump and Republicans are reportedly trying to, once again, come up with an Obamacare replacement, at least for the subsidies. The Washington Post has a good rundown of the various options they're considering, but much of the discussion has focused on some version of paying the subsidies directly to people instead of the insurance companies.

53:41Right now, the subsidies go to the insurance companies and the insurance companies are required to pass the savings on to the consumer. This, I guess, would give them to the people, even though it would be in a health savings account and you'd only be able to use the money for out-of-pocket costs like glasses or dental work and not actual insurance premiums. This is the general idea. Of course, different legislation could change, but this is sort of the Bill Cassidy, the doctor in the Senate from Louisiana, has sort of floated this idea. The problem here, one of the many problems is it could cause younger, healthier people to just go without health insurance, just take their health savings account money and just walk away.

54:23And at that point, that would then cause insurance companies to raise premiums on all the older, sicker people who are left buying Affordable Care Act plans and who tend to need care the most. Yeah. And by the way, a lot of those younger people forego insurance and they become the unlucky subset of the young people that have catastrophic health insurance costs that they can no longer afford. They have to either declare bankruptcy or in some way those costs get shifted back onto other insurance payers. Last week, there was a report that House Republicans were going to start doing whiteboard sessions where they're going to start doing some brainstorming about what to do to fix Obamacare.

55:04This is November. The premiums ostensibly go up on January 1st. This is the most fucking college term paper all nighter bullshit. Like, no, you're not gonna fundamentally fix the healthcare system by rushing through something in six weeks. Like, oh, you wanna do health savings accounts? Like, what's your plan for catastrophic? Like, all this is fucking crazy. Like the plan, like 2008, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had basically a year long debate about the exact details of their healthcare plan. Mandates, no mandates, how to do insurance, catastrophic care, all of it. pre-existing conditions that culminates in a year-long process to pass a bill.

55:43Like they're trying to fucking jam some dumb thing they can think of to get around the fact that people are about to be fucked. Yeah, seems like a bad idea. I mean, like it is, it is very funny that it's not funny. It's not funny in any way. It is amazing that their solution to a very real policy and political problem is to do something that would create the worst case scenario, basically to send the insurance market into a death spiral that could lead to 10 to 20 million more people uninsured, especially crushing older people, working class people, people in rural areas who would have no providers anymore.

56:17You would see a wave of bankruptcies. And they're doing this in the face of a policy. If they just simply extended the ACA tax credits, it would get about 75 % approval. And I'm still not sure why they're doing or what they hope to achieve here, because This is not going to pass because I don't think it's sort of far right enough for House Republicans, whatever it is. And so I don't know that it's actually going to pass. I guess they want an alternative to be able to say this is why we didn't vote for the Democratic extension of the ACA subsidies. But that also then leaves them, again, holding the bag when premiums go up and everyone's going to blame them rightly.

57:00So I don't really know what they're trying to do here. They've painted themselves into the stupidest politics possible, which is they've now. So so if they do nothing, the whole bunch of people lose their health insurance subsidies. But in order to fix that problem, they have to start from the baseline we're at now, which is they have to create some kind of new replacement subsidy. We've been having for literally 10 years. Right. So how they left, how they just left the subsidies in place, they could actually have a debate. that's, I think, better politics for Republicans, which is how to reform the subsidies in a way that is conservative, which is actually, like, just to be needlessly generous to these people, they have sincere objections on policy grounds to some of the ways in which Obamacare operates.

57:43Like, when they talk about health savings accounts, they would prefer a system in which you have health savings accounts for routine care and something more like catastrophic care in other forms, whether insurance, risk pools, whatever it would look like. They have a different idea of what it should look like. Fine, but they have never been able to actually put together a plan that they could all collectively get behind to actually replace Obamacare. So now they're in the worst possible situation, which they have to try to what? Get Republicans to vote for some kind of middle ground between nothing and Obamacare when all of them would, when the freaks would rather just do nothing and let the whole system burn.

58:14No way, no way. All right, last thing to cover here. There's so much in the Epstein files that have already been released and we haven't had time to cover all the salacious and outrageous emails, including one from Epstein's brother, Mark, that has really taken the internet by storm. Luckily for all of us, the Saturday Night Live cold open made an oblique reference to this. Here's James Austin Johnson playing Trump in the White House briefing room. I said I kicked Jeffrey out because he was a pedophile, but then I also said I didn't know he did anything wrong. So it's kind of hard to square that circle until you realize that Trump exists across many timelines.

58:51It's the Trump multiverse theory. We just happen to be living in the worst possible one. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to release all of the Epstein files. This is great. Each file will be on sale for the low, low price of$800. You know, this is a beautiful, one-of-a-kind printed-out screenshot in very low res of one of the many files mentioning President Trump. I just ordered the one that says, does Putin have the photo of Trump blowing bubba? We love that one. whatever the hell that means so two things to note here one is that Mark Epstein has given a statement saying that the Bubba in question is not Bill Clinton but in fact a private citizen who remains nameless we don't know who that is and two we spent 10 minutes of our production meeting this morning trying to explain this to love it that you have somehow missed that this has taken the internet by storm This is one of the most viral things that I've seen out of it.

59:53It's like, what do you mean the big, beautiful bill? So I, I, I, nice. So I, I, I had seen all these jokes about blowjobs and I try, like, it was actually very difficult. I Googled, you know, Trump, Bill Clinton blowjob. Oh boy. You found some good stuff, right? I tried to search around. I couldn't find the underlying Epstein email that led to all this because I somehow had missed it. And then the news had moved beyond me. I was a low information voter when it came to the fact that everybody was joking about Donald Trump blowing Bill Clinton. You didn't see the photo that was Trump in the I drained the swamp shirt and then Bill Clinton shirt just said swamp.

1:00:29You didn't see everyone calling him Throtus. I saw that. I didn't understand why everybody was doing this. And then everybody was texting me these jokes and I was like, ha ha ha ha. I am part of it. New throat coat. Candidates who blew Bill Clinton received 94.3 % of the vote in the 2016 election, the highest for any American election. One of the many. I hadn't seen that one. Also, here's a tweet. PolitiFact actually had to put this out. PolitiFact. A video showing President Donald Trump patting former President Bill Clinton's crotch was generated with artificial intelligence using a 2000 still photo taken at the U.S.

1:01:05Open, where it just appears that his hand is near his crotch. The photographer said Trump didn't grope Clinton. As far as he knows. More like U.S. Open relationship. Huh? How about that? That was good. How about that? There is one media soothsayer out there who basically predicted this whole controversy. I asked the team to pull a clip for you guys that John and John have not seen yet, so let's watch that. There's no video of President Trump sucking a ding-dong. And so what if there was? that's a lot better than world war three o 'er that's good i never sucked any ding dongs but i'll tell you if they were gonna blackmail me to start world war three about one i'd say hey i sucked a ball golf ball through a freaking garden hose didn't you already tell der spiegel that there we have it didn't you already tell der spiegel that of course i guess what he's saying is it's how in fairness al jones he's saying there that had i been had i performed a blowjob and it had been secretly recorded as a means of blackmail, I would put the country first.

1:02:08Yeah, I think the context was like bombing Syria or something. Mm-hmm. But you know. This one really just sort of just broke out of the, like, political junkie containment. Everyone I know. Yeah, like, everyone. Like, it really, it was, it's like one of the bigger things. Okay. What? One of the more viral stories. One of the more extra medium things to burst out of the news cycle. as it were. Oh my God. And then Trump today says, I lost my voice because I blew my stack. Do you think they had to explain it to him? I bet they took a pass on this one. You think so? I think the reason Trump is not...

1:02:48It's going to be hard to avoid. I think the reason Trump is not posting about South Park is everybody goes like this. Everyone decides like, you know what? He doesn't need to know that this ever happened. Yeah, who's doing the Hawk Tua briefing? Not me. Oh yeah, there were a lot of some Hawk Tua memes as well. Oh yeah. Trump is the face. how to what a time that was the tiktoks have been out of control so and ai it's some good music too there's a there's a very weird hamilton remix what i haven't seen that oh wow go check that out you should you take your shot is that what it's about did i get it uh no it's not it's not the shot it's um it's the one where he's cheating on his it's that's that whole song ah yes remixed yeah Beautiful.

1:03:33Anyway, good stuff. I feel like it was, you know, I was like paying attention to all weekend. I'm like, I think that the internet needed this, right? Like it is obviously the underlying story here is horrific. All of the stories of the Trump administration are horrific. There's some funny jokes here that everyone can kind of get behind. We deserve to make fun of the man who is suppressing these files. Yeah, absolutely. For sure. For sure. Hey, absolutely. All right. When we come back from the break, you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Ro Khanna about the big win on the Epstein vote and what the fuck is happening with our military pressure on Venezuela.

1:04:04See, another story. That's not great. But a few quick announcements before we get to that. I know everyone's still celebrating our wins in the off-year election two weeks ago, but we've actually got another one to try to win. We are two weeks out from a special election in Tennessee's 7th district, which includes parts of Nashville and lots of areas to the west of it, to replace Republican Mark Green, who stepped down. This is a Trump plus 22 district, but we have a chance here. and Republicans seem to be getting a little nervous despite the fact that it is a Trump plus 22 district. The Democratic nominee is State Representative Afton Bain and she's great.

1:04:40You can go to votesaveamerica.com to find out how to get involved, whether you live in the district and if you don't, Vote Save America will help you figure out what to tell the people in your life who might live in the district. It would be a huge pickup if we could make it happen, needless to say. And the freak out that would follow. Oh, it would be incredible. Beautiful. Look, it's going to be hard, but man, what a beautiful thing that would be. also Strict Scrutiny is headed west for live shows in San Francisco on March 6th at the Herbst Theater and in LA on March 7th at the Palace Theater get your tickets now at cricket.com slash events before they sell out finally holiday merch it's up in the Cricket store right now some fan favorites are back in new colors and we have new items as well go get started on your shopping now at cricket.com slash store when we come back Ro Khanna

1:05:29This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. This November, BetterHelp is encouraging everyone to reach out, check in on friends, reconnect with loved ones, and remind the people in your life that you're there. And if you could use a little extra support this season, BetterHelp is there for you. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the U.S. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, and their 12-plus years of experience and industry-leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time.

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1:06:30This month, don't wait to reach out. Whether you're checking in on a friend or reaching out to a therapist yourself, BetterHelp makes it easier to take that first step. Our listeners get 10 % off their first month at betterhelp.com slash PSA. That's betterhelp.com slash PSA. This is Brian Tyler Cohen, host of the No Lie podcast, which is part of Crooked Media. You've likely seen my videos online or watched me torture Tommy Vitor as part of our series on YouTube. But this week, I've got a really exciting episode. I'm interviewing the 44th president of the United States, Barack Obama. So if you want to tune in and hear what he's got to say, including a definitive answer as to whether or not aliens are real, make sure to listen by searching for No Lie with Brian Taylor Cohen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1:07:16My guest today represents California's 17th congressional district. Congressman Khanna. Ro Khanna, welcome back to Pod Save America. Thanks. Congrats on the Crooked Con conference. I'm hoping that becomes a yearly tradition. Me too. And thank you for being there. And thank you for kicking it off with me and Ben Rhodes and Yasmin Ansari. Talking about foreign policy, it warmed my nerdy little heart to get to geek out with you guys. But we want to talk domestic politics today. So you and Republican Congressman Thomas Massey have spent the last few months gathering signatures on something called a discharge petition, which for listeners unfamiliar with kind of procedural tools in the House, basically is just a way for members like yourself to force a vote on a specific bill or issue.

1:07:57You recently got 218 signatures on a petition that would force a vote on the release of the Epstein files. This, despite Donald Trump reportedly whipping Republicans very hard against that he had meetings in the Situation Room with members of Congress, he was calling them, haranguing them. Then on Sunday night, Trump did a total 180, and he said Republicans should support the release of the Epstein files. What did you make of this flip-flop? And then what happens next with your bill? Well, you could do math. Thomas Massey and I had over 50 Republicans ready to vote for my underlying bill. It's a Democratic bill against Donald Trump.

1:08:40And that would have been a colossal embarrassment for him. So instead, he caved and he surrendered. and the real heroes, of course, are the survivors. I mean, they've been denied justice for over a decade. I mean, what happened here is just horrific, right? I mean, you had Epstein with basically a rape island and rich and powerful men who had given all this money to politicians and cavorted with bankers thinking the rules didn't apply to them. And these women were raped as girls or sex trafficked and over a thousand victims. And for over a decade, nothing has happened. So he realized that we had a coalition that was outraged standing with these survivors.

1:09:26And he saw the writing on the wall. I saw it. So what happens next, though, procedurally? I mean, will there be a vote? There's some reports that it might be Tuesday. But I mean, is there a chance leadership might decide, OK, now that Trump is for this, we'll put forward our own our own kind of Republican vehicle? Like, how does this work? Yeah, no, I mean, they've folded. They're doing the vote at 3.15 tomorrow. We have a press conference where the survivors are coming in at 10 in the morning in front of the Capitol. And, you know, to break a little bit of news, I've been in touch with Merkley and Murkowski's office in the Senate.

1:10:04They expect actually now that this will quickly go through the Senate, which would be enormous. I mean, just last week, if you had asked me, I would have said uphill battle both in the House and the Senate. And now it looks like it's going to pass both the House and the Senate, which is a testament to why organizing matters, why survivors speaking out matter and really why the grassroots mobilization has worked. Yeah, and I should say we're recording this Monday at about noon Pacific time. So when Congressman Connors says vote tomorrow, that means Tuesday. day. I too was surprised by the change in tone coming out of the Senate.

1:10:40I mean, initially, John Thune, the leader, was saying he didn't think we needed a vote. Now it sounds like there will be one. I mean, I think Donald Trump would still have to sign this bill into law, right? Is there any chance he might veto it? Oh, Donald Trump, nothing is predictable. I mean, two days ago, he was unendorsing Marjorie Taylor Greene and threatening every person who voted for our bill to be unendorsed. And Massey and I were in a panic wondering whether we would have defections. And And then, of course, people held. And so Trump saw the numbers. I'd be surprised if he vetoes it. I do think he would sign it.

1:11:14That in itself is going to be an enormous deal of the Congress and the president basically assuming accountability for these survivors. I hope, and I'm going to ask tomorrow at our press conference for him to meet the survivors. I think that's important for them. I know it's important for them. And it's important for the country, for them to be uplifted. But the challenge after that is to actually get the release of the files. You know, there's some concern that he's initiated these quote-unquote investigations, and he may use that as an excuse to delay the release of these files. There's a concern about him being selective about the prosecutions.

1:11:53And both Massey and I have said from day one, we don't care if they're Democrats or Republicans implicated, but we want it to be fair. And we want to make sure that it's not done through a political partisan lens. Yeah, there's this belief in the kind of the right wing circles that Democrats don't want the Epstein files released because all of us are trying to cover up for Bill Clinton or something. It's like, absolutely not. If Bill Clinton is in these files, release all of them. I want to see all of it. But you're making the point that Trump, he recently posted this message on Truth Social calling on the attorney general and Pam Bondi to investigate Bill Clinton, Reid Hoffman, Larry Summers, a bunch of other Democrats.

1:12:29Over the weekend, Congressman Massey said these new investigations could be a smokescreen in a way to avoid having to release more documents. Can you explain that a little bit? Like, how could a new investigation impede the release that you're calling for? Sure. The Justice Department could say it's currently being investigated, and so it would compromise our investigation if we made these documents public. I mean, that would be a smokescreen, as Massey pointed out, but I don't put anything past the Justice Department. And the reality is that at this point, we need the information to be public.

1:13:07The ability to prosecute people for what happened is unlikely. I mean, we should do it if it really leads to that. But justice has been sitting on this for years. What the survivors want is a public accountability. They don't want people sitting on the boards of companies, having buildings named after them, having scholarships being named after them, being given awards when they engage either in the rape of underage girls or in sex trafficking or in the cover up of this. And they want a public accountability. That's what the survivors are asking for. And so we are going to continue to push for the full release of these files and not let some partisan investigation be an excuse to prevent that.

1:13:58Yeah. Over the weekend, I saw that Trump, he posted this bizarre message on Truth Social where he went after Congressman Massey for getting remarried. He suggested it was like he got remarried too quickly. And then he said, quote, his wife will soon find out that she's stuck with a loser, end quote. So it's my understanding that Congressman Massey got remarried after his wife passed away last year. This was his, I think, high school sweetheart who he was married to for 30 years. They had four kids together. What did you make of that message? And have you talked to Congressman Massey about getting attacked on such like vicious personal terms like that?

1:14:29I have. Look, Thomas Massey has become a friend. I've met his new wife. She's lovely. In fact, I don't think he'll mind my sharing this. We were doing Caitlin Collins together, and she comes up to him and gives him floss and says, Massey, get that stuff out of your teeth. And I said, you know, his style has gotten better. She's dressing well. He was devastated after his wife's loss. I know what a difficult time that was for him. I know the conversations he had with his kids. And, you know, it's just disgusting to go after him like that. There used to be a time in Washington where the type of genuine friendship that Massey and I have was more common, where you have vigorous disagreements like we do on gun policy, like we do on tax policy, like we do on national health insurance.

1:15:20But you respect people's families and humanity. And Trump, obviously, has no regard for that. And it just was sad. And it's sad because they're going to be going for their honeymoon soon. And I just found the whole thing disgusting. Yeah, I mean, like, I'm used to Donald Trump being harsh and just a mean person. But that really, it crossed a line in a way that I just hadn't seen before. The innuendo there, the suggestion that Thomas Massey did something. I mean, it was just disgusting. And frankly, like, terrible politics. Like, you're trying to earn this man's vote. You're trying to get him on your side.

1:15:56And you're going after his family. Like, what's wrong with him? And the thing with Massey, and if you look at how we built this coalition from day one, We never made this about Donald Trump. In fact, Thomas Massey would go out of his way to say, I don't know if there's Trump in the files or not. The point is, this is about getting justice for the survivors. And I go out of my way and say, look, if Donald Trump wants to meet the survivors and release the files, I'll be the first to praise him. So we actually did not make this thing about Trump. It's one of the reasons we were able to get Marjorie Taylor Greene initially and Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace and get MAGA influencers supporting us.

1:16:33And so for him to take it so personally just shows his pettiness. But I do think it's a broader theme about how Democrats can approach this, which is when we identify with MAGA's concerns about a corrupt system and say, look, we hear you on some of that and here's how we're going to work forward on that. I think we can build trust and effectiveness without making every single thing about Donald Trump. That doesn't mean we don't oppose him where he's wrong, but it means that we can earn the trust of the MAGA base by focusing on the attacks on the system rather than just the attacks on Trump. Yeah, I mean, the interesting partner that you and Congressman Nassie have identified in this effort is Marjorie Taylor Greene.

1:17:16She has had this sort of slow rolling fallout with Trump over the last week or two. Trump is mad at her for siding with you guys for calling for the release of the Epstein files. He's mad at her for suggesting Trump should focus more on cost of living issues. And then Trump, you know, his counterpoint is he says Marjorie Taylor Greene is just mad that Trump wouldn't endorse her campaign or candidacy for governor of Georgia. What do you make of all this? Is this an intrapersonal spat or is there a chance that Trump could be kind of losing his iron grip on elected Republicans in Washington? There's not a chance he is losing his grip on elected leaders in Washington.

1:17:55Look, Tommy, I mean, you work for President Obama. The idea that you would have had 40 Democrats vote for a discharge petition against President Obama on something that he was actively opposing would have been unthinkable. And President Obama didn't use the kind of authoritarian strong-arm tactics of Donald Trump. So this is a huge blow to him, that you had people willing to sign a discharge petition against his wishes, that you had probably near 100 Republicans ready to vote against him for a Democratic bill from a progressive Bay Area Democrat against his wishes. And that's really what has gotten him infuriated.

1:18:37That's why he unendorsed Marjorie Taylor Greene. Now Marjorie Taylor Greene, until recently, would keep saying that she just realized that Trump was out of touch with his base and she was trying to get him to release these files because she understood that this was hurting him. She's trying to get him to focus on affordability because she understands he's deviated from his message. And she's a smart politician. She sees that he is disconnected from a MAGA base. I think this has elevated her among some of those voters, but it was not personal. Like, do I think she may be upset about Trump in the Georgia race?

1:19:15Maybe, but no one makes a decision that big on risking a president's wrath because of some endorsement in a race. This was a much bigger issue about her feeling that Trump was no longer connected to the base that she felt he gave him his rise. Yeah, I mean, the other area that really is standing out to me of where Trump seems disconnected from his base is on foreign policy. Again, he ran an America first, not necessarily fully isolationist, but certainly anti regime change wars. But that is exactly what it seems like his administration is setting up in Venezuela right now. So for folks who haven't followed this, we have seen over the last few weeks this massive U.S.

1:19:57military buildup in the Caribbean. There was a report by CSIS recently that said between 10 and 15 percent of all deployed U.S. Navy assets are in the South Com area of responsibility, so Central and South America. Those military assets are being used to blow up boats that are alleged to be part of drug trafficking efforts in the Caribbean and in the Pacific. And the administration is also doing all the saber rattling about a regime change operation in Venezuela proper. I mean, to depose Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro, who was a bad guy who stole the last election. But still, I mean, this is the kind of thing Trump ran against.

1:20:34Let's just start there. I mean, how concerned are you, Congressman, about the U.S. launching some sort of invasion or attack on Venezuela? And what do you think the Congress could or should be doing to prevent it? I'm very concerned. I mean, Marco Rubio is itching for a regime change war in Venezuela, either through covert means or by actually a kinetic conflict. And he makes no secret about it. The reality is that would entangle the United States in another conflict like we got entangled in Iraq or for 20 years in Afghanistan or in Libya. This is exactly what the American public has been voting against.

1:21:12They've been voting against this from Howard Dean to Barack Obama to Bernie Sanders to Donald Trump. They don't want these wars. And it's not just a sense that we'd rather focus on our country than bad wars overseas. I think that's actually not giving some of Trump's voters enough credit. When you talk to them, they actually say, yeah, we don't want to be killing people unnecessarily. We don't like it that boat people are being killed off of Venezuela. We're the good guys. We don't want that blood on our hands. And there is a kind of moral simplicity to people who are not part of the beltway. And they're horrified by it.

1:21:51Some of them were horrified with what was going on in Gaza. And that's why Donald Trump, when he ran, kept saying, I'll be for peace and I'm going to bring peace. Just to follow up on that, Congressman, I mean, so the Wall Street Journal reported that there was a classified Justice Department briefing authorizing these strikes on the drug smuggling boats, alleged drug smuggling boats that described fentanyl as a chemical weapons threat. This was reportedly part of a longer briefing to justify these strikes that have now killed more than 80 people. That number might be even higher. It strikes me as crazy for a few reasons.

1:22:24I mean, first of all, fentanyl is not coming from Venezuela, as we've said many times. Fentanyl is chemicals from China are shipped to Mexico and their fentanyl is produced and smuggled into the U.S. But also second, I mean, like under international law, under like the, you know, the chemical weapons convention, that usually is focused on chemical weapons like mustard gas or nerve agents or VX gas or Novichoc, like chemicals that you would use to kill someone. Not one, an addict might voluntarily ingest or someone who needed pain relief might ingest in a hospital setting. What did you make of that report and just sort of the broader, you know, legal justification in air quotes for these strikes on boats off the coast of Venezuela?

1:23:05There is no legal justification. That's why Admiral Mosley resigned. That's why the Colombian president is saying you've killed fishermen and we don't have a clear response. You have Republicans who have said that the fentanyl excuse is totally ridiculous. They know it's narcotics that are actually being credited. And you've had Republicans who said that in this country, we don't have the capital punishment for narcotics. Whatever else you may think, we don't just have a capital punishment. You have due process. And right now you have an American government in our names, Tommy, and you're in my names, killing people based on who they think is a criminal.

1:23:47I mean, and there was a Republican senator who said to me that he was with the vice president and with the secretary of defense. And it's like a video game for them. They view these people as animals. It is it should send chills down the spine of any American of what they're doing in our name, because at the end of the day, they're not going to say, well, you know, Donald Trump was a president. Ro Khanna didn't support. They're going to say the Americans are killing our families. And it is it is outrageous. And I'm telling you, there are Republicans on armed services where I serve who are horrified with what's going on and are starting to push back.

1:24:23I'm glad they're pushing back. I mean, it does just seem like, as you said, extrajudicial murder with no legal authorization, with no clarity that the people that we are bombing are even involved in the drug trade or in any way connected with cartels. They're certainly not high level cartel members. Right. I mean, the the senior boss of a cartel is not jumping on a boat and driving, you know, thousands of miles to traffic drugs in the United States. And it is it seems like the people that are involved in this could have some real legal problems going forward when there is a new administration.

1:24:56Absolutely. I mean, I do think they will have a legal challenge when there is a new administration. And I think the heartening thing to me is seeing some Republicans starting to speak out is, you know, this sense that America should care about human rights and should care about not killing people overseas. It's not just a left thing. It turns out there are a lot of decent Americans who don't like that. that there are a lot of decent Americans who have been upset with the direction of our foreign policy. And it's been surprising to me when I've spoken out on Venezuela, when I've spoken out on Epstein, you know, I've had people on the right, like Rasmussen or others, say, you know, that I'm speaking in a way that the MAGA base agrees with on these issues.

1:25:45And that should give us hope that we could actually have a moral call to foreign policy. you're not going to win everyone, but that you can build a governing majority in this country around some of these principles. Yeah, I agree with you. And I also think there is a real growing anger at Donald Trump for not living up to the ideals that he campaigned on. You saw it around the Iran strikes. You're seeing it with Venezuela. If there is this regime change operation, I think there's going to be a lot of people in MAGA who said, I did not vote for this. We got to make a big change here. Final question for you.

1:26:16So Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is at the White House this week. He, luckily, we could go through all his various human rights challenges, the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, all the reasons that I would prefer this man not be in the White House. But bigger picture, I mean, the Trump administration is reportedly considering offering the Saudis like a NATO-like, Article 5-like security guarantee. There's also all these reports that the U.S. might sell the Saudis F-35 fighter jets, even though the U.S. intelligence community is concerned that the Saudis could pass that technology along to the Chinese.

1:26:49My question on both is just why? Why is either of those steps in the U.S. interests at all, in your opinion, or if you disagree? It's not. But Kushner has all this monetary deal in Saudi Arabia. I mean, he raised almost $2 billion there. The Trump family is connected there. Look, my first, as a young member of Congress, my first real impact was working with Bernie Sanders to pass the War Powers Resolution to stop the refueling of Saudi planes, which were bombing Yemen. That was one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world. It was of the order of what happened in Gaza. It was horrific. And you still have NBS, who not only presided over the killing of Khashoggi, but who presided over Yemen's mass bombing in charge.

1:27:39Why we would want to give a government like that weapons, and there's even talk of giving them nuclear technology, makes no strategic sense. And by the way, the last thing you would want in the Middle East is to be arming Saudi Arabia and having cut an arms race with Iran. That is not in any nation's interest in the Middle East or our interests. So I happen to think it's just financial and cultural ties that the Trump family has with Saudi Arabia. And it's not in America's interest. Yeah, agreed. It's just stunning to me. I lied. This is my actual last question, just because I know you actually deeply care about these issues.

1:28:20Speaking of humanitarian disasters, I mean, there is a massacre happening now in Sudan in the Darfur region that is being compared to the early days of the Rwandan genocide. It is this group called the RSF, which is one half of a civil war that's been fought in Sudan over the last two and a half years. There's a lot of reporting about how the United Arab Emirates has been feeding arms into this conflict, specifically to the RSF, that's making it worse. And it's culminated the last couple of weeks in the takeover by the RSF of this city called El Fasher, where, you know, at the time, like 250 ,000 civilians were seeking shelter, basically, after being under siege for 18 months.

1:28:56It's hard for me to like read about this stuff every week and just see the total kind of lack of action, either through the international community or by the U.S. Is there anything happening in Congress? Are you hearing anything from the administration that they might do something to try to stop this conflict? I mean, Donald Trump wants the Nobel Prize. He wants all this credit for ending wars. I mean, this seems like a very live war that he could step in and end with one phone call to the Emiratis if he wanted to. He really could. But I mean, Sarah Jacobs has been very strong on this issue. She has introduced resolutions to stop the UAE from arming that group.

1:29:36And it's not taking sides in who's right in a civil war. It's simply saying we can't have external countries escalated. Obviously, the conflict there is a legacy of colonialism that created these divisions. But what the United States can do now is to say to the UAE, stop, don't escalate the situation. And Sarah Jacobs' resolution calls for that. It should get a vote in the Congress. But we also should continue to put pressure on Trump. This is something he could stop, especially given his relationship with UAE, where he has put data centers and where he has enmeshed with cryptocurrency. Yeah, that's absolutely right.

1:30:22Well, Congressman Khanna, thanks for your work on getting this discharge petition passed, getting the release of these Epstein files and everything else. Really appreciate your time. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

1:30:35that's our show for today thanks to rocon for coming on we'll be back on wednesday with more from crooked con my panel on the story democrats should be telling voters right now with our friend jen saki and democratic strategist faz shakir liz smith rebecca katz and adam jentleson you'll also hear lovett's conversation with senator ruben gallego be sure to check it out and dan and i will be back with another episode on friday if you want to listen to pod save america To add free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts.

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