1102: The 2025 Pundies: Highs & Lows from a Long Year

23:11But let tonight be the final time I utter his name. Ryan, good job with Momdani. That was great. your best one. That one's not a just like him. Good job. Then he's like a big shit on Cuomo's dad too later in that speech. That was a good one. That rounds out the category. Who do you guys like for best beef? Oh, man. This is really hard. It's funny because the Scott Besant versus Bill Pulte was my favorite in terms of the humor of it. It's also like the most purely WWE. Yeah. He literally threatened to punch him. Also, Scott Besant getting in multiple altercations also with Elon. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't see him as the fighter in this administration.

23:52Listen, you want to be a gay kid? Don't fuck with a farmer. Don't fuck with a gay guy from New Orleans.

24:00Having rehashed the Trump-Elon beef, though, that was a big one. Yeah, it was a big beef. And it did get pretty, like, Trump's in the Epstein files, it turned out to be true. Yeah. That was a pretty big one. But you're right, it's more, I'm between Besant, Pulte, and that one. I feel like the MTG Trump one was too civil. But also probably the most significant. Horton, yeah. Yeah, interesting. I mean, the breakup with Elon is pretty significant. But they're back together again. They're back together, but the first three, four, five months of the administration was defined by Elon Musk. He was like a shadow president.

24:33Doge was everything, and now he's just gone. All right, I'm with that. I'm with that. Okay, we can do it. We should do Elon now. Okay, great. Trump versus Elon. Okay, next category. We're up to our groins in beef this year. So we took some extra time in the kitchen to whip up a secondary beef category. Best Pod Save America host public fight with a Trump administration official or lack of personality. Wonder who's going to be leading this category. Let's take a look at this diverse group of nominees. First up, Jon Favreau versus Elon Musk. In a dispute over USAID, Musk called Jon, quote, dollar store Jon Favreau.

25:13next up we have john verse all in chamath uh in a dispute over the legality of ccot chamath called john quote probably not a total arsler who should brush up on his con law uh okay i'm not saying it on the pod the word i've seen the r word oh oh oh arsler got it it's the thing that all those Republicans fought to be able to say. I thought it was like arse, like A-R-S-E-R. He's like a Scottish asshole. I don't remember that over here. Chamath was community noted for not knowing the Constitution. Next, we have Jon Favreau again versus Stephen Miller. Stephen called Jon's objections to his immigration policies, quote, shocking and heartless because in their view, Jon is on the side of murders, rapists, et cetera, et cetera.

26:05Well, he's right. True. Yeah, got you there. Got your number. Jon Favreau again versus Megyn Kelly in a dispute about Sydney's jeans ad. Megyn pretended to not know who's Jon. That was a low moment for you. That was a low moment for you. The rest I'm on board with that one made me a little sad. Okay, what's the next one? You'll never believe this is the last one. You'll never believe it's Jon Favreau versus J.D. Vance in a dispute about Vance's vast and loose way of reporting information. Vance called Jon a dipshit. Oh, you won that one. That was a great one. That was a great one. You get a New York Times story out of it.

26:41Fatality. Oh, yeah. And that's the goal. That's what we have. That's what we have. More media. Tweet your way into the Times. I'm glad you found your calling as a poster. Well, last year's news resolution was to post more. Yeah. Shockingly turned out to be free. Careful of what this, who knows what, what should I, I'm taking suggestions for what I should do this year. Oh, my God. We have to direct your resolutions carefully. I think back to around like 2018. We were on a flight somewhere and we were. Red Steez. We all remember this one. We were rushing to get to our show when John stopped because he had to respond to someone called Red Steez.

27:13And that was a little moment. And then you backed away from the wars. Well, I blocked Red Steez. He wasn't retreating. Also named Stephen Miller, I think. Yeah, yeah. It's a different Stephen Miller. Yeah, Stephen Miller. Tough name. I think it's Vance. Yeah, it's Vance. Called you a dipshit. It was great. You get the vice president and I say it's called you a dipshit. That's impressive. Nice. I was ready to have him back, John. I don't know if it's impressive. It's something. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Joe Biden said that about all of us buying closed doors. Yeah. There's some AOL chat rooms where he's doing it.

27:41And his son did it quite publicly. Very publicly. Yeah, yeah. All right. Next up we have... Boy, I got to read the jokes first. I'm so bad at this. Okay. Donald Trump is like the HBO series, The Last of Us, barely watchable after the first season. I haven't watched the second season, but I like that joke. Also, he sees some sort of hideous fungus sprouting more and more moments of moral decay across our political landscape. Which of the following is 2025's most corrupt corrupt date? Stacked. First up, there's the Qatari jet. Earlier this year, Trump accepted a massive plane from Qatar to be used alongside Air Force One.

28:20It could cost taxpayers over a billion dollars after it's re-outfitted. Here's Trump talking about the plane. I think it's a great gesture from Qatar. I appreciate it very much. I would never be one to turn down that kind of an offer. I mean, I could be a stupid person and say, no, we don't want a free, very expensive airplane. Not free. Again. Can I just hire it for a second? Just take me inside. What was the thinking in which live video to have a producer read and which to use the live video? most of the live videos we had like we went with the live video and then some we couldn't find the live video at the time so we were like well this would be a good producer read and look last year the producer reads they were just straight reads they were great now we've veered into some theater I'm not sure I'm comfortable with got it just throwing your colleagues under the bus right here live on the podcast we threw Elijah under the bus what a safe space for drama what a safe space for actors to bring their best selves do the next thing Next up is Trump's World Liberty Financial Venture, this crypto venture that Trump's family runs.

29:27It's just a vehicle for corruption. One example this year is that a Chinese billionaire named Justin Sun bought$75 million worth of World Liberty Financial Tokens shortly after the SEC stopped investigating Sun's companies. So is this category all crypto, all World Liberty? No, no, no. We're going to jump to some other stuff now, which is corrupting the DOJ. No, I'm saying the last one, the World Liberty one. Is that – Yeah, we call this all the crypto scams. All that kind of stuff. Yeah, crypto scams. Next up, we have corruption at the DOJ. Trump is using the DOJ to go after people he doesn't like, like Tish James and James Comey.

30:04On the other side of that, he's pardoning a bunch of people who are loyal to him, like the January 6th writers for crimes they didn't even commit during January 6th. Crypto mogul and Binance founder CZ and the Chrisleys, a reality show family. Here's Trump talking about pardoning CZ. CZ had caused significant harm to U.S. national security, essentially by allowing terrorist groups like Hamas to move millions of dollars around. Why did you pardon him? OK, are you ready? I don't know who he is. That would have been for a great clue. We had Nora's voice, but then Ryan played Trump. Can Ryan also do a good Nora?

30:47I've heard it. It's really strong. And last up is ass kissing and knee bending. We have ABC and CBS settling suits for millions of dollars, law firms and universities bending the knees, CEOs like Tim Cook giving weird little gifts with gold on them. And recently FIFA created a peace prize and just gave it to Trump ahead of the 2026 World Cup. Here's a clip of that. We saved millions and millions of lives. India, Pakistan, so many different wars that we're able to end. in some cases a little bit before they started, just right before they started. It was going to be late, but we got them done. We were able to end some wars before they started.

31:29It's just so triggering. So which is the most corrupt? I know some of them are specific instances. Some of them are more broad trends of corruption. Right, especially because the crypto corruption includes the pardons. It's all one and the same. hmm there's the crypto there's the pardons in some of the pardons there's crypto but like it's pardons right so it's pardons versus so it's pardons versus crypto versus what was the first one oh the jet versus political prosecutions and non-prosecutions oh and the folding oh the folding the bending yeah I don't think it should be the folding no I agree because that's really more like Bob Iger it's not necessarily corruption Sherry Lance Sherry Redstone scandal.

32:15Right. And that's a calculus based on the corruption that Trump has. You can disagree with the calculus and the stake of it, but they're reacting to a very real thing. I kind of feel like it's crypto. Yeah. I mean, the Qatari jet is the current, I think, biggest ticket item that we know of. But the crypto, I think, is the most systemic, ongoing avenue for corruption that includes getting paid off by the Emiratis in exchange for ai chips like the truly buying and selling of u.s national security i will say the most egregious example of corruption in terms of donald trump just stealing directly from taxpayers is the justice department um lawsuit trump trump suing trump trump suing the government and then trump in the government role deciding he's going to settle with himself which isn't if he had done that if he had actually done it he hasn't got the money yet so when he gets the money in 2026 put on the list honorable mention yeah i would say crypto otherwise i don't agree i think it is the doj i think it's the corruption of the doj the use of pardons the political prosecutions because all these all these other things they're all bad they're all enabled by like it is not possible for him to be bribed without a doj that's not going to look into anything and without a congress it's not going to look into anything but the the doj is the kind of core of the rot if right now pam bondi was replaced by eric holder and he was in that role it would they would all be half they would have to behave it's a good point i think it's the doj you sold me you sold me i'm persuaded vote so who votes crypto i'll vote crypto who votes um what lever love it just said doj doj i think i'm gonna go qatari jet oh you guys win well should Should we go to a runoff?

34:02No, no, no. You have to think two to one to one. All right, great.

34:14This episode of Pod Save America is brought to you by Grazza. Did I do that right? Always fresh, single origin olive oil. Everyone's cringing on the couch. The holidays, they're here. They're not basically here. They're here. And everyone knows how important food is this time of year, whether you're the gracious host or the professional party goer, it's always good to have extra olive oil on hand. Grazza, Grazza said normal, is a top-notch olive oil at an affordable everyday price. Grazza is always fresh, never blended, and made from the world's best olives. They're always picked, pressed, and bottled in the same season.

34:47You can even see the harvest date on the bottle. Grazza has three olive oils for your classic holiday recipes. There's sizzle. They're everyday cooking oil for marinating, sauteing, and roasting. There's drizzle, made by Snoop Dogg. Just kidding. It's a super punchy, flavorful finishing oil. It's perfect for tossing a salad, dipping bread, or giving anything a pop of flavor. They also have Frizzle, a high-heat cooking oil that can handle some serious heat and great for baking, grilling, and frying. If you were to come to my kitchen right now, you would see a bottle of Grazza right by the stove.

35:16And what I like about it is it's super high-quality oil, but also comes in a squeeze bottle. So you can just fire it into that pan, get a good sizzle going. You sopping up some Grazza with your bread? With your bread? No, it's more for cooking in my house. But if I go out somewhere, I love a good dip and dunk. But it's super, it's great. It's high quality. It's affordable. I don't know. It's my go-to olive oil. Has been way before they were a sponsor on this show. And you get 10 % off your first order on their site. But I personally recommend their new dinner party pack or their duo gift set, which is now available in glass.

35:50So head to graza.co slash crooked and use crooked to get 10 % off your order and get cooking this holiday season with some fresh, delicious olive oil. That's graza.co slash crooked, code crooked. It's spelled G-R-A-Z-A dot co slash crooked, code crooked.

36:11Next category. Every week in this company, I crawl out of the scorching sands of the Maga Desert, searching desperately for one tiny drop of living out to keep me alive. It was a real dune situation this year, but we squeezed out a few drops. open your mouths to wet your whistle for these for the most liboutable moments of 2025. They're pretty few and far between. And a lot of them were Zora and Mom Donnie. But first up, we have Gavin Newsom starting to tweet like Donald Trump. It's been nearly a decade of people trying to figure this out, how to counter Trump on social media. Hats off to Gavin for kind of figuring it out.

36:42Here is a read of one of his tweets from a Bon Save America producer. I'm going to blow my brains out before this happens. Fox hates that I am America's favorite governor. ratings king, saving America. While Trump can't even conquer the big stairs on Air Force One anymore, Fox is losing it because when I type, America now wins. Is this red from a boombox? A very teeny tiny speaker. Austin's shouting. Well, the post is in all caps, to be fair. Yeah. Got it. No, thank you. Pick that up. Austin, did Austin do high school theater? No. Okay. The answer was no. Seems clear. Next up is Zoran's primary win.

37:19Momdani completed one of the most innovative and interesting campaigns in recent memory to defeat Andrew Cuomo and the Democratic primary for New York City mayor. We have a clip of him kicking off his campaign by interviewing people on the street, but I don't think it's going to translate that well to audio. So let's skip it. We've all seen it. It's a great clip. He ran a great campaign. That primary was cool. Next up is just election night 2025. We won everything. So we're on in New York, Spanberger and Sherrill in Virginia, New Jersey. We flipped those commission seats in Georgia. California got - Boy, did we.

37:49California got redistricting. That was awesome. We really needed it. And last, we had this nice little moment of Zora Mamdani visiting Trump at the White House. Here's a clip. He asked about your comment called the president a fascist. And your answer was, both President Trump and I have been clear about our positions and our views. Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist? I've spoken about. That's okay. You can just say yes. Okay. It's easier. It's easier than explaining it. I don't mind. That wasn't living out. That was Trump's moment. You know, as I was going to say, it's comforting to know that no matter how much the four of us may like Zoran Mamdani, our staff at Crooked is always going to glaze him just a little bit harder.

38:32Yeah. You're now. Three of the four. I think you said glazing in four of the last nine podcasts. Glaze on, Glazer. Yeah. I think it's the off year. Yeah, of course. It's election night 2025. It's a runaway. For sure. Runaway. Best night of the year. Yeah. I mean, look, it was not a great year for living out. What other moments were there? Crooked Con? Jesus. Crooked Con was cool. Unbelievable. You know what? The Indiana redistricting loss that Trump just was served was pretty big. Yeah, I'll tell you. The Epstein Files release vote, that was good. Yeah, I want to attack the whole premise of the year being hellacious and not a mo - Like, you know, Trump came in like a lion, leaves like a lamb.

39:12You know, it's like things - He came in fast and hard and that caught us all off guard. But I feel like we end the year a little bit. Speaking of the - Better place than how it started. What? What? Speaking of the man's bread. Better than how they started this year. We'll get some most horrifying Trump moment of the year. Maybe we'll - For sure. Look at that statement. How many categories we have left? We can skip a bunch. Look. No, no. I'm asking. No, we had a production meeting about like, hey, is 12 too many categories? I did. I'm not doing judgment on my question. No need to be so defensive.

39:44There was something behind that question. Be honest. Okay. most irritating discourse of the year a perennial favorite this one uh let's start off strong with abundance and ezra klein in general oh my god this year saw ezra and derrick thompson's book transform from a suggestion of some reforms into according to some uh a straight-up embrace of eugenics. Did someone go for eugenics to read that? We won't. John did three tours in the Abundance Wars. I have a purple heart. He threw it over the fence. He threw it over the fence at Cap.

40:34Mira spit on me.

40:41next discourse next discourse the main senate primary obviously Graham Plattner is a polarizing guy give that to a bunch of Plattner bros next we're going to skip the Texas senate primary because that's bad discourse that's just getting started it's not quite mature no bad discourse there next we have Sidney Sweeney's jeans ad this was that's a really good one the kind of quintessential woke is dead woke is alive discourse of the year and at one point Donald Trump himself weighed in saying that he loves Sidney Sweeney jeans are flying off the shelf she has the hottest ad on the market this this went for months next up we have that one clip about Joe Biden from Crooked Con and the Jake Tapper Alex Thompson book and all the continuing zombie discourse about Biden dropping out.

41:35Here's a clip of a pro-Biden influencer talking about Crooked Con. I just saw the most ludicrous thing I've seen in a long time, and that's that their main theme of their little event that they had over the weekend was that anybody wanting to run as a Democrat in 26 or 28 has to distance themselves from the Biden years. Really? Is that Christy Jackson? Most Democrats think that Joe Biden was one hell of a president. And most historians agree with that, too. In fact, last year, he was ranked 14th best. 14th. That's Christy Jackson. That's Christy Jackson. Oh, wow. I've never seen that person. Often frequent tweeter.

42:13First time, long time. And last up, we have Olivia Nuzzi and Ryan Lizza. Basically, it's... We all know it. Remind me what the category is. Most irritating discourse. for me personally it's um abundance because the stakes couldn't be lower it's endless and it's just so fucking pedantic and boring i could not care less you think the stakes can be lower in a category that includes ryan lizza and olivia nunzi i'm just saying the stakes of this argument abundance versus anti-abundance people mad at a book versus a book i the stakes couldn't be lower it's like who gives a fuck tommy cares about journalism integrity and the masthead divinity be fair.

42:55Like I'm not saying the Sidney Sweeney gene discourse is higher stakes. I'm just saying all of it is stupid. I'm I agree with Tommy not for the the stakes thing but just because it is the most annoying to me for sure. It's so stupid. It's the most annoying. And it's not the fault of Ezra and Derek at all. It is the fault of the left. Enjoy that. Okay let's. Gonna go a little extra poke there. There you go. Yeah. The most of the criticisms have been completely insane and grounded in nothing. Yeah I think that's certainly true. Yeah I just think the Sidney Sweeney thing was stupider. It was funny.

43:24And bigger. bigger yeah but it was like it's just sort of fun i feel like this isn't anything to me is like total kayfabe it's manufactured it's like it's like plug and play culture war the abundance thing was genuine and still going crazy and like so angry i'm like what are you nerds fighting about please stop okay i can go along with that sure cool abundance straight out of arkham asylum it's batman's nemeses if they were all tedious unfuckable losers that's right it's the worst shmack a media figure of the year award. Nice. Wow. I like that joke. All right, first up, Katie Miller. She's Stephen Miller's wife and a horrible podcaster.

44:06He inserted a line that says, the Miller's line. Is that not coded language? For therefore we are Jewish? Come on, Pierce, where are you? What? Where are you standing? God, you're so pathetic. You better check your citizenship application and hope everything was legally next to him. We're disgusting. That doesn't mean that is... Next up is Benny Johnson. Benny Johnson was already featured in the self-inflicted wound segment, and he had an awful clip in front of Alligator Alcatraz where he was talking about how awesome it was. Three, two, one. Welcome to Alligator Alcatraz. I'm getting swarmed at my mosquitoes right now, and we saw at least 30 alligators on our way in driving.

44:45And there you go, ladies and gentlemen. As far as the eye can see, you go in, you don't come out. Next up is Tucker Carlson, Tommy's pal. He had an up and down year where he ripped apart Ted Cruz in one of the most satisfying interviews ever, showing that he's capable of doing that. And then gave the softest, gentle embrace of neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes. Let's take a listen. The main challenge to that, a big challenge to that, is organized Jewry in America. It's the most popular, self-evidently true idea you could have. Don't let foreign powers, especially tiny ones far away, control your country. Like, of course not.

45:23There's Nick Fuentes himself. He's a gross neo-Nazi, racist, anti-Semite misogynist, and he had a huge year, unfortunately. And if you dig into it a little bit, he's just a huge loser. Here's a rare interview where he didn't get sucked off the whole time by the interviewer. Jesus Christ. Just to clear up one of the many theories about you, I've no idea what the answer is, and you haven't got to answer it. But are you actually attracted to women? I am attracted to women. You're not gay? No. But I will say that women are very difficult to be around. OK. So there's that. And do you think they should have the right to vote?

46:02I do not, no. Absolutely not. They should stay at home? Well, yeah. Absolutely. See, basically, you're just a misogynist old dinosaur, aren't you? Have you ever had sex? No, absolutely not. Wow. Since the guy who's never got laid. And last is Candace Owens. She's currently at the center of the MAGA Media Civil War for pushing conspiracies about Charlie Kirk's death. She's also getting sued by the president and first lady of France for repeatedly claiming that the first lady is a man. Here's a clip of Candace Owens with one of the Tate brothers. It's not a coincidence that Justin Trudeau is gay.

46:39Obama, gay. Zelensky, gay. Emmanuel Macron, gay and married to a trans man who molested him when he was a child. And that despite the overwhelming evidence, for me, the litmus test now is like Brigitte McCrone. I'm like, if you want to figure out who is a fraud in media, there is no way to read that six part series and go through it and come out of it being like, no, totally legit. Like, yeah, these are just rumors. It's like one picture of yourself in your first 30 years of living, please. And they show me her brother. Where's your brother? Where is it? I'll show you my I'll show you my brother.

47:13Wow. This is a tough category. Is it the worst? What is the category? Overall worst. Overall worst. Okay. Okay. So if it's just like worst impact in the world, that's probably Nick Fuentes, right? Yeah. I would argue like Nick Fuentes being dragged into the mainstream sort of MAGA discourse or even Pierce Morgan is like one of the worst things that's happened in a long time. Yeah. It can't be Katie Miller. No. Having a bad podcast is not really the worst thing you can do. Benny's been a tool forever. Tucker's been Tucker forever. Candace. Candace is - She genuinely lost her fucking mind. Yeah, but I think that she's lost her mind so much that she's getting kind of cordoned off.

47:49I think Fuentes is dangerous. Nick Fuentes hasn't lost his mind, which is the problem. Yeah, I think it's between, for me, Tucker and Nick Fuentes, because Tucker is also kind of acting as kind of a gateway to this stuff. Yeah, absolutely. And he has more, and I do think he still has more reach. So I might say Tucker, but I'm fine either way. I think Nick Fuentes. Fuentes. Fuentes. Fuentes wins. I get what you're saying, Lovett. I was thinking Tucker needs to go in because he kind of is a big part of Fuentes' rise this year.

48:22Pod Save America is brought to you by UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency. Displacement at its highest level since World War II. More people have been forced to flee than at any time in recorded history. UNHCR can only reach half of those facing life-threatening emergencies due to funding cuts. Humanitarian aid cuts are forcing UNHCR to make impossible choices about who receives help. As wars escalate in Ukraine, Sudan, and elsewhere, the number of refugees is at a record high, just as the help they need is vanishing. Sick children suffering from dehydration and disease can't get access to clean water.

48:55Sick and elderly populations are unable to get medical care. Families arrive at overcrowded camps where diseases like cholera are spreading. UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency, has operations in over 130 countries worldwide. Donations are critical in funding aid to save lives across the globe. Once a donation is made, relief can reach refugees within 72 hours of an emergency. $19 for a kitchen cooking set. $37 provides an individual a winter survival kit with a blanket sleeping mat kitchen set and plastic sheeting to insulate their home. $95 provides warm winter clothes for a child. $179 will provide a family without electricity a solar kit to light their home on the long cold nights of winter.

49:34Donate at unrefugees.org slash pod to help save lives. Help families survive the deadly winter ahead. Donate at unrefugees.org slash pod.

50:09And Alligator Alcatraz in his prisons, sending troops to American cities like D.C. and Chicago, doge and cutting USAID. And as we noted before, basically everything with vaccines, which we don't know how big that's going to be. This is tough. Huh. This is really hard. I don't think it's Zelensky. No. And I don't think it. I mean, the USAID stuff has probably has led to the most death and destruction. I think it's a combination of it being the most destructive just on the kind of on the numbers, plus the kind of socializing us to like a lawless administration that doesn't have to distribute the money Congress has spent and turning that into like an actual debate and allowing Trump to use it as a cudgel and government shutdown.

50:59So I think all in all, that has been the most dangerous thing he's done. yeah i just think it's it's tough though because the the abuse in seacott and allegory alcatraz and all that has been quite significant but it's not death none of these are good none of them are good yeah let's vote and he got turned back on the seacott thing yeah usa id are out yeah okay usa id the last category before we get to best in show worst take by a pod save america host you guys have graciously offered to self-report yourselves after you guys got so defensive about your bad takes last year uh they weren't bad uh are you ready john favreau you're up first oh well this was hard because my takes are awesome so i think my overall take that the government shutdown should have been about damn it no i mean did you that was mine too that it It should have been about, you thought it should be about healthcare.

51:58No, no, no, no. I thought I, you wrote an entire essay, so you deserve this category. It was more than a tweet. Yeah, no, I thought it should not be about healthcare. I thought it should be about sort of like the, whether, something in the authoritarian category. You were kind of everything bagel. The ICE detention, the, mostly around immigration. I was hoping for something around immigration. And no, that was bad. I was going to do a corollary and it's more controversial, but like, I also think, that they reopened the government at the right time. Oh, interesting. I think that the criticism...

52:34Is that... I think that if we had helped... So wait, your really bad take is they opened at the wrong time or your bad take was that they didn't open at the wrong time? My bad take was that the criticism of the time that like, oh, the Democrats caved and this is the worst thing ever, blah, blah, blah. It's like, I actually think that it was, if we were in a... I don't think they would have gotten anything else by waiting any longer. And I think right now the worst thing that has happened from the government shutdown and them reopening the government is not getting what they wanted, what we wanted on health care, which I don't think that would have changed anyway.

53:03And I think politically, any argument that it was bad politically is just now proven to be wrong because Democrats have only done better and Republicans have only done worse since the shutdown. I think you can also, by the way, add this, this is going to be a subset for me. I think you can also add that we all were like, oh, and all you got was a vote on subsidies. and I actually do think the political value of getting that vote on subsidies turned out to be more than we thought, right? Everyone was like, oh, it's just a vote. What could it do? But it actually like turned into a whole political moment in which they had to come up with an alternative to put it against it.

53:32Like it ended up actually being a bigger deal to get that vote than I think people acknowledged at the time, myself included. Yeah. Who's up next? John Lovett. So I had a feeling we were gonna talk about the shutdown and so I did, the healthcare being the right path for the shutdown, I think was something I came to late. as in today and uh but what i was gonna say is this was actually i like uh uh i remember when mom donnie announced and i actually was having a this is i'm just earning points inside my relationship where r was like mom donnie is gonna do really well i really think he can win and i remember feeling really nervous it was like oh fuck this is the person they're gonna put up against Cuomo, like Cuomo sucks.

54:19Like he's gonna, like that makes me really nervous that someone like Cuomo is gonna be able to win. And I was too cynical. Can I follow on that? Cause mine is adjacent to that. Mine wasn't in like a tweet, it was in a meeting. I think we all talked about whether we should book Zoran Mamdani in a meeting. And I was like, no, cause this guy's never gonna win. There's a thousand people in that race and then we're gonna have to have all of them on. No one wants to interview Andrew Cuomo because he's a total piece of shit. And in hindsight, not the best take since, especially for like, I've been paying attention to the race, I would have known that Andrew Cuomo was doing zero interviews.

54:50And that wouldn't have been an issue. So, related. And Dan? So, my original take was, John's take was, I think I was, your take was it should be on these things. And my take was that making it just about healthcare was a mistake. And I disagree with that choice. Yeah, I guess I agree with you and. Yeah. It was more of a, yeah. Like, I understood why they did it, but I thought that was a strategic area. I was sort of in the Chris Murphy camp there. That's right. That's right. And that was 100 % wrong. They were right. Schumer and Jeffries were 100 % right about that. And like all the data shows that they've made healthcare affordability a highly salient issue, which is a very – like just changing the direction of the issue of conversation in America is almost impossible for a party of the minority.

55:33And they did it. So full kudos to them. so i think my other take is that i'm doing this on the fly here but where i was wrong earlier in this year is like i you and i've had the conversation this conversation many times on the pod but being very sort of dismissive of the people who are saying affordability affordability affordability that like that had the set like the sort of the data nerd argument message testing that affordability is a thing and my argument against it was like yes obviously everyone cares about affordability, but it's sort of impossible to make affordability the central issue in politics because it's not the sort of culture identity issue that drives discourse.

56:14And so that's why always the immigration stuff, just the general authoritarian anti-democracy stuff always trended more on social, got more coverage. But Mondani showed that you can, if you are smart and good, make affordability the signature issue. And the shutdown showed that if you are smart and good, you can make affordability the central issue and that we have to, instead of being so dismissive of the idea that you can't sort of make, like alter the political weather, is we have to be more aggressive and think about how to actually alter the political weather and make the issues we care about front and center.

56:47I will say we've got a huge boost there from Donald Trump himself because have you not – if you did not have the insane Trump corruption, the tariffs, the big beautiful bill, and refusing to extend the Obamacare subsidies, I don't know that you could have made affordability in a national issue as big as – Mamdani obviously could have in New York because it's a smaller race. Yeah, I mean obviously you have to operate – We had some real help. You have to operate in the political environment around you. But basically, Democrats were able to make Trump change his message and just like step on a rake repeatedly talking about affordability for like a month now.

57:26And that's a pretty impressive thing. On September 14th, I tweeted, Drake May is good, but the Patriots are not. The Patriots are now 11-2, number one in the AFC East and tied for the best record in the AFC. Are we doing bad sports takes? Because I got a lot of those. I just brought another one. Levin and Tommy both did bad takes that are private. They didn't even go with public takes. Well, I would say that like, we all - That was a good public take. I mean, that's fucking public now. That's what I'm saying. That's why I'm glad you did that. I figured we were going to end up talking about the shutdown.

57:54And I think like, whatever though, like, we wait, if you go back and listen to, we thought through every single side. I think we were like pretty kind of even handed about the whole thing. But I think fundamentally, we just underestimated that choosing healthcare could work as well as it did. Like we all did. I did. Everybody did. So here's a, I know this is a take I haven't really workshopped yet, but maybe Chuck Schumer was right back in April. um yeah it was more about how we did it thing oh yeah but like he like everything he said would happen did happen that trump's approval would drop it would a lot republicans would feel once he went below 40 well the shutdown helped kill the approval rating of trump and then it dropped below 40 also that he's not gonna give he's just gonna lay off a bunch of people do a bunch of terrible things and yeah and you're not gonna get what you want so james carvel's op-ed about uh rolling over in plain.

58:44But that wasn't right, though, because like the one other lesson, too, for me, like, and just in how this unfolded is we spend like, what's the Democratic message going to be? And like, the message is obviously really important. But like, you have to pick the right fights because the fight is the message vehicle. Like whatever the like the fight becomes the thing that gets the coverage and gets Trump to respond. And that's what people pick up on. Like we've had people to like, you know, doing federalist papers on the Senate floor for like in the House floor for months. But then you have a group of members film a video and they say, don't follow illegal orders.

59:14And then you kick up a real debate and that gets it more salient. So I think it's about the fight that they picked and they chose not to do that in April. Yeah, that is the argument and why I think Schumer was ultimately wrong was you had to have a fight. He was right about what the outcome would be if he went down that fight. But the actual shutdown showed that having the fight, even if you do not win the substantive thing you're going for, still has value. Like fighting is better. Fighting and losing is almost always better than not fighting. So who's falling on the sword? Tommy's Patriots take is obviously the worst.

59:47Objectively the worst. Patriots are fucking awesome. Well, I mean, let's, should we. Drake May is really, half my tweet is right. By the time this podcast comes out, they may have lost like 56 to nothing to the Bills on Sunday.

1:00:01I'm leaving it to you guys. I mean, I'm not sure. Tommy, you're obviously the most quantifiably wrong. And then you and Lovett are also, you know, you were also quantifiably wrong about Mom Donnie. So on aggregate, you know. I'll take it. All right, there you go. Zoran can't win. Patriots are bad. Neither can the Patriots. Brutal takes. Zoran and the Patriots suck, as Tommy's take. Yeah, brutal. Brutal takes. Put that on a quote card for me. I was going to say, actually, we could just say we were collectively wrong about the Schumer strategy on the shutdown. Yeah, I think that's the way to do it.

1:00:37All of you about Schumer? Okay. Send this right to him. Okay. If the staff could do a dramatic reading of this part of it and send it to him, that'd be good. Yeah, someone do Chuck Schumer. Yeah, just print out the transcript of this and just put it next to his bagel on Saturday. Okay, Greenblatt. Too much? I was going to say, the way the staff's been doing their impressions, that ADL is going to come after whoever does that impression. You're next, pal. Very good point. All right, it's time. The Best in Show Award for the Pundi of 2025. From the Political Scandal Group, we have the Epstein Scandal as our Scandal of the Year.

1:01:17From the Fluffer Group, we have Stephen Miller. He's the worst Trump administration official. From the Beef Group, it's Trump versus Elon. From the Best Pod Save America Beef Group, it's John versus J.D. Vance. The Most Corrupt Group, It's the corruption of the DOJ. The most lib out moment of the year was the off year elections. The most irritating discourse was abundance. Mega media figure was Fuentes. Worst Trump move was USAID. And the worst PSA take is all of you about Chuck Schumer's strategy on the shutdown. What's the pundi of the year? This is like so it's so hard to pick among these different categories.

1:01:55This is what our process thing was. It works better in the in the take version of this. because it all takes. I know, I know. That's the truth. If I may. Have you worked on any criteria, Elijah? If I may, it's just like, I listened back to last year's show and an election really structures your year where you have these discrete moments, takes, results, that kind of thing. This was just a one note year. It was kind of getting punched in the face over and over again until we had that off year win. Elijah, professionals make content. They don't make excuses. Yeah. Honestly, like just for pure comedy, the funniest thing we could do would be to create a graphic about this and then have the winner out of this list just to be the abundance discourse.

1:02:33You know, of all these things, it's like, name that as the worst is so stupid. It's like, you're like, this is what's hard to pick about this. I don't even know if we're doing worst, best. What are we even saying here? Hey, what is more? Trump attacking the DOJ, abundance? Or John tweeting a J.D. Van. Or Chuck Schumer being right. There's no best, there's no... I think we should just go Epstein. Yeah. Sure, sure. I don't even know what we're doing. Yes. Clear favorite. Yeah, absolutely. Clear favorite in the whatever the final category is. Of the year. Pundy. Pundy of the year. Epstein gets the - The Epstein scandal.

1:03:09Epstein didn't win himself. The defining political thing of 2025 was the Epstein scandal. Feels right. It feels right. Yeah. Thank you to the PSA team for your - With abundance coming in close second. Thanks, Allie, for writing those great jokes. That is the interesting thing about it, though. Like, we can stop. but it's like what was the most defining story from that list of stories of 2025 was it epstein was it the midterms like what was like the what what defined the year more i i actually think that the i mean this is the living out thing but i think that the off-year election probably has set that has changed more about the future that's what i think that's what i do 2025 elections i do why not sure pundi of the year what gives you hope the year elections the year ended better than it started.

1:03:56As I fucking said, Elijah, through your shit-eating fucking smirk. He quickly moved past his bad take. It goes on the attack. Is that not another lesson of the era? We'll tell that to every kid who has measles, but...

1:04:15Not saying it's all good. Not saying we're not gonna get our hair must a little bit. Not saying there won't be some fucking setbacks, like the measles making a comeback. The Pundi of the year goes to living out over the 2025 elections. Credit to the PSA team for your wonderful voiceover and how to do the jokes. What else do you expect from the pod, bros? That's beautiful. What gives you hope? All right, what's one of you guys want to take us home? 2025, what gives you hope award? All right. Who's going to close us out with a reading from Abundance? No, we should do a reading from American Canto.

1:04:53Thanks. All right, that's all for the Pundees. Thank you, Elijah. Thank you, our staff, for... Whatever that was. Hopefully we can keep you all and you're not going to leave to go join SAG. Fortunately for us, Hollywood's dying. Do some voiceovers. Yeah, the consolidation will reduce the number of opportunities for some of these actors, unfortunately. We'll be back in your feed next week with a holiday mailbag and some New Year's resolutions. We're going to do those, too. Hell yeah. We'll see you then. Beautiful. Bye, everyone. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts.

1:05:34Also, please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Crooked. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are David Toledo, Emma Illick-Frank, and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reed Churlin is our executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant.

1:06:05Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellaviv, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

1:06:24you