1113: Trump Retreats After Alex Pretti's Killing

25:55But this is different. You're also seeing Republicans willing to break with Trump. Like there are some usual suspects, Rand Paul, Tom Tillis, Murkowski. They're going a little further than usual. But even like James Comer, who's a, you know, dyed in the wool MAGA guy. He's saying I should get out of Minnesota. Greg Abbott said I wild. Yeah. Texas governor says ICE needs to recalibrate its decisions in Minnesota. A bunch of high profile MAGA like media people, even like formerly paid propagandists from the Russian government are criticizing ICE and Trump. The New York Post editorial said, quote, the hasty, misleading rhetoric coming out of the administration needs to stop.

26:33The American people didn't vote for these scenes and you can't continue to order them to not believe their lying eyes. So I do think like that is a lot of pressure from the right. Yeah. Love it. What's your sense? Yeah, look, I think it's broken through. You know, it's been interesting watching the kinds of people that try to defend Trump at every turn or find the intellectual way to not defend him while still managing to make sure they're doing their job of making this about the way the left is causing it in some fashion, how they've kind of run up against some weather in this. And I do think if like you're not in the kind of daily political battles about how we argue over all kinds of videos and images and seeing the opposite, like even those who want to be like deferential to law enforcement, when you watch this video, the Renee Good video, on top of all the other videos we're seeing, it's one thing for people who are maybe instinctively more defensive of law enforcement to defend police.

27:38acting professionally, but what ICE or border patrol, what they look like in these moments, they just look like a gang and they're scrambling and they're running up and they're pushing people. They're not acting like police. They're just not. Like you can have all kinds of criticism of police that is deserved. These people are not acting like police. They're not deescalating. You see a lot of criticism from cops, by the way, law enforcement officials, both locally and nationally saying this is not how a professional police force acts because you're supposed to deescalate. You're supposed to step back.

28:05You're not supposed to make things worse. And you see like the number of videos you see of somebody from ICE or BPB, we put them together, but they are different, kind of running up and just shoving somebody, grabbing somebody. And then because now somebody maybe grabs back or falls, whatever, an agent falls. Now there's two people on top of each other. So six more agents come in and now they're part of this scrum, a little bit of like what happened with Preddy. And it just doesn't look like police. It looks like gangs. They're acting like gangs. And so I think that is visceral for everybody, including people that are less political, less anti-cop, more pro-law enforcement.

28:39Like, I think that is part of what makes these images so powerful. I mean, remember after they killed Renee Good, you could hear the man who shot her, the agent who shot her say, fucking bitch. And then now after this, there were two agents like fist bumping, high-fiving after the Preddy murder as well. Sickening. There was also a doctor who, you know, filed this in the affidavit for the court case that we'll talk about a bit. But said that he, once again, just like in the Rene Good killing, tried to rush and provide medical care for Petty. And they wouldn't let him because he had his license on him.

29:15And then finally they let him. And he said it was weird is that he was late on his side, which is not what you do when there's like a gunshot victim. And then he saw that the agents, the Border Patrol agents were counting the bullet holes. That's why they had Petty on his side as opposed to trying to help him with medical care. They were counting bullet holes. Well, they're also looking for a gun and they realized there was no gun on him because he'd been disarmed before they executed him. Yeah. The other Republican I thought was interesting, Chris Medell, who was a Republican candidate for governor in Minnesota, and the pro bono lawyer for Jonathan Ross, the agent that killed Renee Good, dropped out of the race, said, I can't look my daughters in the eye and say I'm running as a Republican when they're pulling over Hispanics and Asians because of the color of their skin and what they look like.

29:56I did not sign up for that. That was the end of his candidacy. Some of the tech people are finally speaking up. Some of the next tier tech folks. I did see one guy from OpenAI as an exec there, James Diyet, which is a pretty damning tweet. He said, there's far more outrage from tech leaders over a wealth tax than masked ICE agents terrorizing communities and executing civilians in the streets. Tells you what you need to know about the values of our industry. Yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah. The fucking all in pod crowd. They think the real problem is a 5 % wealth tax on billionaires. Chamath was literally tweeting about that all weekend while this was happening.

30:28This is your buddy, Donald Trump. You didn't have a fucking word to say about this? The real victims are the billionaires. Do we think Tim Cook was on Do Not Disturb during the screening, and so he only saw it after? What Levitt's referencing here is that Donald Trump, on Saturday night after the killing, held a screening of the new Melania doc that was a little bit of a drug deal there. Amazon paid$40 billion for it. Yeah,$40 million. And Tim Cook went. That was great. Why? Got a couple executives. It's on a competing streaming service. Why is he going to the premiere of a documentary on a competing streaming service?

31:02I guess Tim Cook and Apple just wanted to show support for the president who just presided over, you know, federal agents who executed the second American citizen in a matter of weeks. A riveting documentary for everyone who always wondered, what is the first lady up to in the 20 days before she becomes officially first lady in her inauguration? Directed by Brett Radner, a person we all missed. That Hollywood was clamoring for more work from. Yeah. Let's talk about Trump himself. And I do think it's notable that we have waited until now to talk about Trump, which I think just goes to show that he has at the beginning of this, he sort of was in the background of it.

31:39It is pretty clear now that he and at least some people in the White House have realized that at least from a pure political standpoint, they have royally fucked this up. Trump announced Monday that he's sending border czar Tom Homan to Minneapolis, who will be replacing Greg Bovino, who is finally leaving the city with at least some of the Border Patrol forces under his command. And Nick Miroff at The Atlantic has just reported that Bovino has been removed from his role as Border Patrol commander at large and will return to his former job in El Centro, California, where he's expected to retire soon.

32:14This is according to a DHS official and two people who have knowledge of the change. What a world where we're like, oh, yes, we got Homan. Got rid of Avino. We got Homan, guys. Just the guy with the 50 grand in the kava bag. That's like a relief. Well, remember how this all went down, too, is that it was first Homan. And then there was all this sort of reporting about this internal scuttlebutt over like Tom Homan wasn't extreme enough for Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski. Corey Lewandowski, of course, the brains behind the operation at DHS. Something behind that person. And so, you know, Homan wasn't tough enough, right?

32:53Because, of course, Homan is an Obama administration holdover from way back. He was some mid-level ice guy or senior ice guy there. And so Homan wasn't tough enough. And so they kind of demote Homan, or at least he's out of view. they get Bovino on the ground with his uh you know with his ss coat and in his in this phalanx of agents that he needs to have around him even when he's going into target to take a piss he's a big tough guy and so so they have so then so then it's Bovino and remember after Good was killed and Homan is in one of those first interviews and he's like I think there should be a full investigation like I think we should not call it domestic terrorism all this and then suddenly he's like back on the talking point so Homan they all see Homan as like a cuck right Right.

33:36Homan is a real. Yeah. Homan's a real bait up to them, which is fucking nuts because Lewandowski and Noem don't they don't like Homan. There's like a tension there. Right. Right. Yeah. So now so now Homan is back in. And and I guess this is the last of Greg Bovino for a while. Trump also said on Monday that he had a, quote, very good call with Tim Walls and that they, quote, actually seem to be on a similar wavelength. I'm sure Walls laughed at that. The Walls office said that Trump agreed to allow for an impartial investigation into Freddie's killing that involves Minnesota state officials, which they had originally been trying to keep out of it.

34:11And they and they did for goods investigation, lack thereof, not a real investigation into goods murder. And that also Trump agreed to, quote, look into reducing the number of federal agents in Minnesota. And of course, there's that reporting that some of the Border Patrol is going to leave with Bovino. Also, apparently, right before we recorded, Trump talked to Fry, Jacob Fry as well. And they had the mayor of Minneapolis and they were supposed to have like a productive call as well, according to Fry. There were also hearings on Monday on both of the points that Walls and Trump talked about in these record cases brought by the state of Minnesota by Attorney General Keith Ellison.

34:46One asking a judge to stop the ICE surge and the Border Patrol surge immediately, and one demanding that the Department of Homeland Security preserve all the evidence from the scene of Preddy's death. You know, the judge seemed reluctant or sort of torn on whether they could actually stop this enforcement operation during the during the hearing, though. The one thing that was really getting the judge was Pam Bondi's letter that she sent basically saying, we'll take out our agents only if these conditions are met. And and one was we want your snap, your food stamp rolls. And one was we want access to your voter rolls.

35:21So weird. Yeah. And then we want more cooperation on law enforcement. And so the judge was like, it does seem a little weird that there's basically a demand of meeting certain conditions before you stop terrorizing a population. It's not what the judge said, but that was basically the feeling there. So we'll wait for rulings on that. And then White House held a press briefing, their first press briefing since the killing on Monday. Caroline Levitt was asked at her briefing about Stephen Miller and Christine Ohm calling Freddie a domestic terrorist and an assassin. And she said that Trump doesn't characterize him that way.

35:55Did not defend Miller, did not defend him. She hung him out to dry. Did not, yeah. The bar is so low, right? But also didn't criticize Miller. You know what I mean? Just sort of - She didn't condemn him, but she definitely were like, they're on an island And I'm signaling that Donald Trump has not said that. Yeah. And seemingly wouldn't say that. I mean, yeah. I can't imagine any White House press secretary unless the person was fired to actually, you know, make the criticism right there. But I thought that that was that surprised me because Caroline Levitt's never done that. No, she was. I was actually like she was.

36:25It was actually more circumspect than than than usual. Trump, of course, aside from some of these posts, spent the weekend of a lot of other posts over the weekend. He was posting about his ballroom, basically saying it's unstoppable now. You can't stop me now from building this ballroom. OK, he was hosting the screening, of course, the Melania screening. He threatened to again now to make bad polls a criminal offense. So his head's in the right place. You guys have thoughts on the the evolving nature of the Trump White House response to Freddie's killing in this seeming retreat from from Trump in the White House?

37:02uh yeah look trump has been as you said he's been horrible at times but i also think at other times his reaction has seemed more human than jd vance or steven miller or christine noem or at least more like politically in tune with the moment and so um he definitely seems very much to be in climb down mode the fact that he's calling the mayor the fact that he's calling uh governor walls is is significant i think i look i think he is mostly focused on making money and like legacy stuff like the ego stuff like he wants the ballroom he wants the ark to trump wants to build these monuments to himself.

37:32And he wants to know about Peace Prize. But he doesn't like when the markets go down, doesn't like when the stock market dips. He doesn't like getting calls from Republican senators or other allies telling him that his team is screwing up. So they're making changes. And, you know, there's been a lot of reporting even before Alex Preddy's murder that there was internal White House disagreement over the political impact of the ice crackdown, specifically in Minnesota. I think there are people in the White House who are monsters, but they can read a poll and they know that this is not helping them.

38:02In fact, it's backfiring. But their problem is that Stephen Miller doesn't want to give an inch. And Stephen Miller is the first among equals in that building. Like Susie Wiles has the title of chief of staff. I'm sorry, but you're not the most powerful person in the White House, nor is J.D. Vance. It is Stephen Miller. And so we know this because during Signalgate, Stephen Miller basically told J.D. Vance to shut the fuck up and get on the get with the program about bombing Yemen. And so, you know, I think clearly we're seeing a climb down in Minnesota. Maybe there'll be a change to where ICE and CBP is deployed.

38:32I think people probably understand that another incident like this is inevitable. If some change isn't made, I'd still worry, though, that there's going to be a constant kind of back and forth push and pull with Stephen Miller and the people trying to constrain him. I don't know how long term it will be. Love it. What do you think? So there's three things happening to me. One is the policy, the policy of mass deportations and how you execute on a policy like that. The other is the incredibly aggressive tactics that they've been pursuing in the Twin Cities and other places. And then the third is the tenor of the administration and how it talks about what it's doing.

39:16Clearly, Trump is trying to do this with the tenor, maybe some surface changes in the aggressiveness of the response. But the mass deportation policy remains. And that's a math problem. That's not even a Stephen Miller problem. It's a math problem. I agree he's the driving force behind trying to hit whatever number, a million deportations in a year. But they just can't get just criminals. They don't have it. So they have to go after normal people. And there is no way to pursue a mass deportation agenda without causing chaos in communities with immigrants. because there are documented immigrants, undocumented immigrants, and citizens from those communities.

39:55And by the way, they're neighbors and community members and colleagues and people that go to school with their children who are American citizens. And so he can have a different phone conversation tone with Tim Walz for a day. Well, by the way, still posting that he's going to go after Ilhan Omar and go after the fraud, which is ostensibly going after Walz, right? Whatever else he wants to call it. But the reality is the policy, if this is the policy, this is what will happen no matter how they try to kind of massage it. It's not an optics problem. It's a math problem. And I don't know how they resolve that.

40:26There's no real way to resolve it. You can do a mass deportation policy that is less monstrous, I suppose. It's still going to be incredibly disruptive and horrible for these communities. So that to me is still like, what are we talking about what's homin gonna do uh that's different than what bovino was gonna do slightly better tone uh is homin is homin some fuck does he have a great bedside manner i mean maybe compared to fucking bovino but he's still tom homin yeah what i worry about is so imagine what happens on saturday takes place alex prattie is murdered and steven miller does not tweet that he was a would-be assassin greg bovino does not give that press conference that we saw christy gnome does not go out there and say he was a domestic terrorist they do not have a response as fucking nuts as they had they announce all right we're actually going to take this seriously uh we we believe that you know this man had a had a gun on him and we believe he was going to cause violence we're going to have a full investigation of this and and that's going to be it and you know the outcry then is is huge i would hope but they probably think at that point they can still send in ICE, send in Border Patrol to the next city and the next city and keep doing this and keep getting away with it.

41:45And, you know, they're now in Maine. We haven't heard a ton from Maine. We have because we paid really close attention to this. And so, you know, people in Maine, but they're in Portland, they're in Lewiston and ICE and Border Patrol, whoever's there, are acting just as monstrous as they've been acting in Minneapolis, not just to immigrants or not just to legal residents, but to protesters as well. So you do, and no one, I mean, we don't have good insight into what's happening at the detention centers, which are fucking just horrific, the conditions there, or where they're sending people or when they're sending people to third countries, not even their own countries, right?

42:19Like, so there is so much harm they can keep doing that I do think that it's now going to be incumbent on everyone who has been monitoring this, who's been reporting on this, who's been filming this to like keep it up because you're right. Right. Like Trump, Tommy's exactly right. Like Trump just doesn't like Trump doesn't like the mess. Right. He doesn't like seeing a mess on TV. He doesn't like the blowback. He doesn't care. It's not like Trump is like really feeling for Alex Petty and his family. Right. But Trump's like, I got other things to care. I don't want to deal with this shit. Stephen Miller's like, OK, fuck.

42:50How do I get done what I want to get done without the boss getting mad at me or me getting sidelined or anything else? And I do worry that there's enough of them like Miller and Vance who are smart enough to figure out how to do this in a quieter way. And I do think like sidelining Bovino and maybe Noam, we can talk about that, who's just a fucking idiot, is like, that's an easy thing. Yeah, there is another. You're right. That's all I think right. Except the one thing that they can't manifest is a magically more professional immigration bureau because they've staffed it. In fact, they'll get a less professional one as time goes on and the new recruits who they keep hiring are going to.

43:30Well, that's what I mean. Because part of this, again, is like they've staffed up too quickly and they've ramped up too quickly. And they've recruited people that are either some combination of unqualified or ill-tempered and poorly trained. And so that will continue. Right. That mess is there. And they can't talk their way out of that. Yeah. Unless these assholes are all just like sitting in an office somewhere at DHS or some field office not doing anything, you know, which seems unlikely. I think all we can really hope for right now is some near-term improvement on the ground. And I do think getting CBP out of these situations sounds like it would make a material difference because they sound like the worst offenders in terms of abusing people, including American protesters.

44:06I think it's so important for people to know that too, is that like ICE is awful, right? We all know that ICE is awful, but some of the worst abuses have been at the hands of the Border Patrol people. And they should be back at the border where their job is and never in the interior of the country.

44:42We'll see you next time.

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47:16so as for what's happening in the grind of minnesota right now it seems protests have remained peaceful i'm sure a lot of you now have seen the minnesota national guard uh has arrived they are wearing you know bright yellow vests so that they people can distinguish them from border patrol which feels like it's like we're in some you know developing country civil conflict somewhere that we have now to you know two two sets of armed uh agents uh one of the state and one from the federal government. But, you know, they're the guard there handing out coffee and donuts and, you know, people are there's there's a lot of vigils and everything on the ground.

47:51But love it. You've been there. So tell us tell us what you've been seeing, who you've been talking to and how people have been reacting. Yeah. So we went to the Whipple Federal Building, which is where most of the kind of federal operation has been run out of, where there's been a constant presence of protesters. That's also where we've seen some of the confrontations between protesters and law enforcement. And, you know, we talked to two guys from Minnesota, one who's been out here protesting for a while, another, it was his first time he'd ever been to a protest. Well, the option really to me is do this or do nothing and I choose to do this.

48:36I was talking to my dad and he said, he's worried about me. He said, this isn't your fight. You got kids at home. But I mean, the people who are getting abducted, they got kids at home. And I really, I mean, I'm not going to go fight anybody. So my options are stay home, pretend it's not happening or come here and do what I can. Jesus said to love your neighbor. You can't love your neighbor if you stay home. Ignore the issues going on. So he said, yeah, forgive them father. They know not what they do. I just want to show that not every Christian support what's going on. And it was actually like a, like remarkable how many people we met, uh, who had like went back to their religious faith for why they were out there and their like revulsion at what they're seeing.

49:17and especially from people who claim to be Christian and conservative, that was repellent to them, including someone who had been a conservative and been someone who was on the other side but was converted, has moved to the left because woke up to what was happening in the country. There was a mix of people, some who'd been involved in organizing for most of their lives some from like native communities that involved in organizations that are as old as the 60s. There were people that had been protesting since George Floyd. And then there were people that had never protested before, but they all agreed that they'd never seen anything like this in the Twin Cities.

50:03They'd never seen anything like this. One thing I just, I thought was worth saying is, you know, you see polls from people saying ICE is making cities less safe, Right. And those are polls of people that aren't there. I mean, for the most part. And so they're reacting to the chaos they're seeing. And so that's a kind of aesthetic judgment. Like this looks like it's not good. Right. It's a good judgment. It's correct. But then you talk to people about what it's actually like and to people that are trying to kind of assist in the communities. And they are seeing people afraid to call the police.

50:34They're seeing people afraid to go to the hospital, afraid to report domestic abuse, afraid to get warm in the cold. and that is a community that is less safe because of this chaos, because of the presence of ICE. I tried to talk to, not on camera or anything, some local law enforcement and they're obviously skittish about the politics of this. They're dragged into this and they're trying. You just see, it's from Minnesota guys. They're from the local police and they're just trying to keep the peace. And I said, Like, this can't be like making the community feel safer. I like I know you're sort of staying out of it.

51:15I'm not I'm not trying to put you on the spot on the politics. But like, obviously, if you weren't out here, you'd be doing something else. And you watch him like struggle to answer that, like, yeah, like, look, we've got to be out here because we're worried about what's going to happen with these protests. We're worried about counter protests. We're trying to keep these people safe. We hope people still call 911. And one, we're not immigration enforcement and we're still answering those calls. But yeah, like if we weren't here, we'd be somewhere else. You feel it. You feel the way in which it's a small thing.

51:47But when you're at the Whipple building, there are all these protesters. And there's two kind of honks when people pass by. There are the locals that are saying, hey, I'm with you. And then there are like the ICE guys kind of laying on their horn. And when we were at the Alex Preddy Memorial, there were some like kind of anti-protester, pro-Trump people kind of honking their horns and going by, which people were ignoring. But when like a fire truck would go by or a car they couldn't tell who was in it would go by, you see the protesters kind of looking in the window and saying like, are you one of us?

52:24Like, are you from here or are you from ICE? Like, are you with us or are you like, are you from this community or are you part of the outsiders? and you see like the like fire people in ambulances or like fire trucks or just passers-by just going like, like waving. Like, I'm just letting you know that I'm here. Like, I'm not, I'm sorry. Like, I'm not part of this. Like, I'm from here. I'm part of your community. I'm not part of this force that's come from the outside. And like that, that to me is like the feeling that you get when you talk to people, which is like, and it's, you know, like, Like, like, get out, like this idea of like, get out of here.

53:01Like this feel like you are not, we don't want you here. That feeling, it's not just like a political statement. It is like a community statement of the pain they're feeling of like, stop doing this to us. Like, stop doing what you're doing to this city. Like, we don't want this. Forget immigration enforcement. You are ripping this place apart and it doesn't need to be this way. Like, that's the feeling you get when you talk to people. I'm just um I'm so impressed with the community in Minneapolis and St. Paul and also throughout Minnesota it just like how they've gone about protesting and organizing I was talking to Lydia Paul Green about this who's also from Minnesota for offline last week and she said yeah it's just like I almost don't like calling it protesting because it really is it's organizing it's like helping your neighbor being together and we haven't even covered it and we probably would have if Saturday hadn't happened.

53:49But, you know, on Friday, they held the Day of Truth and Freedom, which is this like just gigantic, it was like an economic, it was a one-day economic boycott strike plus protest. I think they had like, I heard Klobuchar say 50 ,000 people and nothing happened. There was no violence. There's no, there was nothing on Friday. It was just peaceful protesting that many people. That is like, just statistically, that's like a really tough thing to pull off it's also so cold and then i can't like it was like it's not 30 degrees it's zero or below zero it is unbelievable and then and then after and then saturday morning comes and and and freddy's murdered and i was texting with um emily has a lot of family in minneapolis and i was texting with emily's aunt i was checking on saturday and she said there's there were these vigils that they were holding.

54:44And she's like, we just came from one in our neighborhood and it was like 250 people just in there. She's like everywhere in both cities. You can just see all over Minneapolis, all the suburbs, you just these vigils everywhere. And they just like sort of spontaneous. And she said that a friend had texted her like if there aren't riots in the Twin Cities tonight, it's because of the vigils on every corner. It's just like unbelievably that it's unbelievable how powerful they were in changing the energy. And sure enough, No riots Saturday night, nothing Sunday. You know, like it's just for all that for all that the Trump administration has tried to make Minneapolis be, they have just refused to take the bait.

55:22and the power of sort of nonviolent organizing peaceful protest and now sort of repelling Trump and Greg Bovino and the Border Patrol agents from this city because everyone there had the discipline and the love and the energy to be like, we're just going to sit here and we're going to be witness to this. We're not going to back down. We're not going to hide in our houses, but we're also not going to give them what they want is just unbelievably fucking impressive and inspiring. Yeah, I saw there was this woman at Whipple. We went back. We went to a couple different places. But then sort of before we recorded this pod, we went back because there was more people at the Federal Building sort of in the afternoon.

56:04And there was this woman who had a jacket on that said, Granny's against ice. and we'll put in the sound here, but she's out there just as every SUV comes in and out. She just yells that they all have tiny penises. That's what she wanted to do. That's why they're wearing masks. Show people the back of your jacket. It's a granny against ice. What have you been shouting at the passing ICE cars when they're going into the Whipple facility there? Oh, just that they've got tiny little Winkies and small penises. Because I'm assuming that's why they hide their face. You think that's why they're hiding their faces?

56:51I think so, yeah. Because of their small Winkies. One of the reasons would they have for... And is Winky, that's a Minnesota term? It's a granny term. And what should people who aren't here right now understand? What are they missing about what's happening in the Twin Cities? Kindness. That's the main thing. I mean, look, we've got people bringing food, people bringing coats, people taking and grabbing, you know, helping the people that get released from detention and bringing them to their homes, giving them phones because they release them without coats. So just like a few minutes ago, we found out that, in part because of all the backlash that we're seeing, Trump is going to remove Greg Bovino from Minneapolis in the Twin Cities.

57:38What do you think about that? I think that's good, but I don't think Tom Holman is going to be any better. Tom Holman, we're prepared for him. We've got money. I was about to say, we've got to get some Kava bags. Well, I just had grocery bags. We've got some money there. It's play money, but I mean. and she's like and but was what was it was just sort of goes to the conversation because it's like personnel changes tone changes like talking to people like what are they what does success look like what what is it's this ending it's these people being removed from the city they don't care who's running it from inside the building not going to see that person they're seeing the impacts and one last thing too is just something we've talked about in a couple previous pods like i i was talking to people about like how much are they really feeling it like how much of this is centered in a few areas versus something everybody in the community is feeling.

58:30And to a one, they felt connected to it, whether directly people at their work or friends who have felt it. It has been pervasive. And it matters only because Minneapolis isn't a special example. It doesn't have a high degree of undocumented immigration. It's not a big city. If they can do this here, they will do this anywhere. There's no place they couldn't justify doing it if they can do it to Minneapolis and St. Paul and that community. I love it. Ryan said you were introducing yourself to voters as the Gen X Nick Shirley. Is that true? Yeah, that's right. Can we drop that audio in right here?

59:10I was actually saying I'm the cowardly Will Sansel. That's how I am. I'm like without the guts. Without the tear gas? Yeah. Amazing. All right. Let's talk about what might happen next on Capitol Hill. Government funding deadline, January 30th. They have been, we're not going to go through all the details, but we've talked about this. They're passing department by department bills. Basically, Senate has to vote to fund the Department of Homeland Security. The vote's going to be this Thursday. And House already passed it. And now Senate Democrats have to decide what they're going to do, whether they're going to fund it or not.

59:48you know, whether they're going to pass the whole package of bills together, whether they're going to try to strip out the Department of Homeland Security bill because they agree on all the other ones and maybe enforce changes in the Department of Homeland Security bill to ICE, to immigration enforcement operations. Basically, now all the Senate Democrats or most of this, Chuck Schumer has said, like, they don't have the votes, meaning Republicans do not have the votes to pass this bill. So the Democrats are going to demand this. And what they are demanding as of Monday is for DHS funding to be separated out from the other bills.

1:00:21And so, so far, at least Republicans are like, no, we want to move forward to vote on all the bills and, and keep the debate focused on avoiding a shutdown partial or otherwise. And even if the Democrats do extract some concessions from the Republicans, the house is out this week. Cause you know, if they get concessions, then you have to pass it back through the house again anyway. But like, you know, even your Jean Shaheen's your Jackie Rosen's the people who basically provided Republicans the votes to open the government up last time. This time we're saying like, absolutely not. We're not going to vote for this unless there are real changes.

1:00:55Schumer was on a call with the caucus Sunday. He apparently said the message is going to be restrain reform and restrict ICE. And then, you know, they're going to ask for some reforms. What do we know about the reforms they're asking for? Democrats are asking for and basically like can they achieve them i don't know that that slogan sings you know i mean look the problem about the kind of conversation about our messaging is it inevitably devolves into this like intro democratic party fight about the last time we talked about abolishing ice and that slogan whether it was good or bad and whatever happened to that sean mackle we guy and like we just i don't want to have that anymore like i think i think there's short and long-term message issues here or sort of priorities.

1:01:37Short term, I guess, as Schumer thinks that a reform message is more politically palatable and beneficial. Maybe even thinks he can get some Republicans on board, although it sounds like no. Also, like Caitlin Dickerson had a great piece in The Atlantic about how the Trump administration has systematically dismantled all these inspector general offices and civil rights and civil liberties offices within parts of the government that are supposed to investigate these kinds of incidents and that we should, Democrats should be fighting to fully staff and fund those again. Longer term though, like it's just clearly like ISIS, like a fundamentally broken organization.

1:02:07It cannot be reformed. There needs to be systemic change. I think the thing that always bumps me on abolish ISIS, that doesn't answer for me where CBP goes. You know what I mean? And like CBP, it's not part of ISIS. They report to the, to the Secretary of Homeland Security. And ultimately I think like that is the bigger problem, which is that DHS was a fucking stupid, colossal mistake creating that dumb thing. Thank you, Joe Lieberman. Homework for our listeners, Google, Department of Homeland Security org chart someday. You'll see like the Coast Guard and the Secret Service and then FEMA and then the thing about weapons of mass destruction.

1:02:38Like, what is this? So I think like ultimately, Democrats probably need to fight for a lot of this immigration, all these components to be pulled out of DHS and put into DOJ where at least there's oversight and accountability or something else. But in the short term, I think whatever we can do to pressure the Republicans on this and Trump on this is probably helpful. Dan and I have been nerding out about this a little bit, But it's just like there's you can put all your demands on the table. Right. And see if there's enough Republicans to sort of make any kind of incremental changes that honestly are just not going to make a huge difference.

1:03:15the real problem is that ice has a budget that is the size of the israeli militaries right now and uh that budget they have no matter what happens with the government funding fight because it was a statutory appropriation that they got from the big beautiful bill and so like ice is fine they're going to do their thing and there's nothing i you went on here but there's nothing democrats can do about it what democrats can do is we can shut down the government or a partial shutdown, and you could shut down Department of Homeland Security. And then I imagine at that point, what the administration will do is say, well, ICE is still going to do their thing.

1:03:52And what we'll do is, yeah, we'll shut down TSA and then no one will be able to fly anywhere. And we'll shut down FEMA. And then they'll blame Democrats for emergency management not showing up or long airport delays and all that bullshit. Do Trump want to shut down FEMA anyway? Right. Yeah. So they'll do whatever. They'll be a stalemate. And then at some point, you know, I do think it's and I said this last week, I think it's worth like making these demands. And and if we're going through a shutdown, we go through a shutdown just to like call attention to the fact that this is fucking bullshit what they're doing.

1:04:25And if you can get them to make some reforms, that's good. I don't think anyone should think that if we just get a few reforms that Democrats are demanding, that that's because Democrats didn't demand more. because the truth is no one's abolishing, reforming, or doing anything until a Democrat is president again. And then if a Democrat is president again, like, again, you know, my view there is fire literally every single fucking agent that Donald Trump hired for the agency. I think you need immigration enforcement somewhere, but you're right. We have these Border Patrol cowboys who are out of fucking control.

1:04:57We have ICE is clearly out of fucking control. And so basically you need some kind of border security and some kind of immigration enforcement. But like everything that we're seeing now can go away like literally the day that a Democrat becomes president. And it won't go away until then. Yeah. And that's the truth. Like there's already been a bipartisan negotiation that has some modest reforms. Right. That is what they would be voting on. It's paltry. It's not nearly enough. But because the funding for ICE has already been put through, it is not like a normal shutdown in which the shutdown slows them down.

1:05:31actually like these these reforms applied on top of the funding would be more effective not nearly effective enough not nearly as far as we need to go not resolving the problem but would do more than a shutdown with that's just the truth now i i could and we should say that what what democrats what at least 10 senate democrats have uh coalesced around this they are demanding requiring warrants for arrests kind of thought the constitution required that but you know um mandating that federal agents identify themselves and i think body cameras are probably part of that as well. And then mandating that, you know, DHS cooperate with state and local investigations into ICE abuses, violence shootings like they did with Renee Good and Alex Pretty.

1:06:11Again, all things that should be law, should be in the Constitution, should be, you know, maybe a court will decide anyway, but that is what they're calling for. There's also House Democrats, there's about 15 House Democrats, and not just the Progressive Caucus either. You know, I saw like Seth Moulton on this and Pat Ryan and a whole bunch of different people calling for an immediate stand down uh in interior enforcement until they can fucking fix this bullshit that's happening right now um you know i don't see that going anywhere i don't see the trump administration ever agreeing that but good for them for doing it and then of course there is the um and you're even seeing moderates like you know nevada's jackie rosen center jackie rosen calling for gnome to be impeached and that's gaining steam as well you know my thought there too is like great get rid of christine gnome but again she you know she basically just does and says what Stephen Miller tells her to do.

1:06:58Yeah, she's better job. She's a bad person. I'd love for her to get fired. I'd love for her to be impeached. Push for it if you want. It doesn't solve any underlying problems. It doesn't cut their funding. It doesn't change anything. I'd like, you know, it's probably it's not going to make Trump. It's not going to change Trump's mind. Trump's going to go Democrats hate her. OK, now I like her. Yeah, the like, you know, the there is this like credibility problem in sort of both directions for Democrats and Senate Democrats led by Schumer, which is people think they'll cave, including the Republicans, right?

1:07:29And so their demands carry a little bit less weight. And then on top of that, given the level of corruption in that department, Abolish ICE has gone from being kind of a minority view to, in some polls, a majority view. And even if you question that, it's obviously gained a lot more mainstream acceptance as a view. So then why aren't Democrats trying to abolish ICE? And obviously, we are not going to be positioned to do that for a long time. But there is another problem under there because like, OK, you want to get rid of ICE. Like, what kind of immigration enforcement do you believe in? What kind of immigration support?

1:08:13Not as a compromise with Republicans for comprehensive immigration reform. what do you believe interior immigration enforcement should look like at whatever level? Maybe you think there shouldn't be much. Maybe you think there needs to be a more humane version of it. I don't know what the answer is. But I have no idea what anyone's position on that because we haven't had any kind of full-throated democratic kind of vision on immigration in a very long, long time. And so I think this is the credibility problem that Democrats in the Senate fall into over and over again, which is they want to signal that they understand what they that they need to fight, but they have their limited tools.

1:08:49And then nobody knows what their deeper goal is. Like, they understand that the tactics may be in the short term, which they don't trust. But in the long term, like, what is your what are you trying to get to? Because we want to abolish ICE and we have no idea what you're for. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And I think, you know, to their credit, I think they are angry, like most of the country, want to do something and, you know, have limited options available to them by being the minority, which is what they are. We had Mark Warner. I talked to Mark Warner, which was on the YouTube, and he was initially pretty opposed to

1:09:27stopping this bill to having a shutdown over DHS. But I think he's been moved by what he's been seeing. And I do think being reasonable and then moved to the stronger position does make it more credible to Republicans as well. So there is that. Yeah. And again, it's like, you know, I was in the Senate and someone was like, well, what are you going to do? I'm like, I'm not going to vote for the bill with the government shutdown. OK, well, you're not going to get what you want. Well, I'm not voting to fund everything that we're seeing on television. So if the government shut down, then the government shut down.

1:09:55And if Donald Trump wants to do something, he can do something. Well, aren't you mad about the policy? Well, no, that's just, You know, like you could just have that position if you want. Now, everyone should realize that, you know, it's then it's in Donald Trump's lap and the Republicans lap. And we've all seen how that goes. But there you go. All right. Two quick notes. You know, we've been pushing you guys to subscribe to Friends of the Pod. This is our subscription only service here at Crooked Media. And by the way, if you subscribe, you're supporting independent progressive media, which is super important.

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1:13:47out. One other thing we want to touch on before we go, just because it's a little fun, and we need some of that today. Ben Terrace at New York Magazine is out with a big news story trying to get to the bottom of whatever's going on with Donald Trump's health, for which the White House decided to make Trump and a couple of military doctors available for an Oval Office interview, along with a bunch of other Donald Trump advisors and cabinet secretaries. It's all incredibly reassuring, of course. Ben opens the piece writing that when he walked into the oval, quote, the president was standing next to a couple of doctors clutching pieces of paper labeled talking points.

1:14:24At one point, Caroline Levitt said that when we all see Trump dozing off during meetings, he's not sleeping. He's actively listening. He's engaged in active listening. That's what it is. And then there was this gem where Trump talked about his father, his own father. And he said, quote, he had one problem at a certain age, about 86, 87. He started getting, what do they call it? And then Terrace writes, quote, Trump pointed to his forehead and then looked to Caroline Levitt for the word that escaped him. And she said, Alzheimer's. And then Trump goes like, like an Alzheimer's thing. Well, I don't have it.

1:15:00Any other, any other favorite parts of this, uh, this, this piece? It's, it's, it's quite extensive. The other part of the Alzheimer's back and forth is Trump has asked if he thinks about his father's Alzheimer's much. And he says, no, I don't think about it at all. You know why he said, because whatever it is, my attitude is whatever. And telling a reporter that you don't think about Alzheimer's at all, because whatever is kind of a hilariously bad way of convincing someone you don't have Alzheimer's. Like maybe you forgot. There's also, I also love that he, he starts the interview by threatening to sue New York magazine and says, there'll be a time when you could write about my bad health, but it's not now.

1:15:35That might be in two or three years. At that time, quote, no one is going to care, I guess. It's like, buddy, you're still president in two or three years. If you have like declining health and potentially Alzheimer's in two or three years, it's actually a very big deal. Like the whole story is just fucking hilarious back, like the back and forth with Ben Terrace, who writes it brilliantly. So the mystery of the Trump MRI and why it was ordered remains. There's a very funny part in the story where Trump says having that MRI was the worst fucking thing I ever did. I blame them talking to the doctors.

1:16:08They wanted me to take it. And because I took it, people want to say, oh, there must be something wrong. And then Trump turns to the doctors and says, can you explain why you asked me that? And then the doctor says, we asked him to do it because he had a scheduled trip at Walter Reed. While he was there, I asked him if we can complete some additional physical things that we were planning on doing annually. And he was like, okay, we'll work it in for the schedules. And it wasn't an MRI. It was a computerized tomography exam of his chest and abdomen. And for not any reason, Trump adds, what? No one ever.

1:16:40What are you talking about, guys? Why did you why did you give him some kind of an MRA like scan of his chest and abdomen? And my ongoing belief or theory is that Trump doesn't want anyone to know that this was about his prostate that is what i think this is that is my theory about this that that he doesn't want anyone to say it was for prostate and so they all have to talk around it and really that is why but it was as it was of his chest chest and abdomen you go all they they right going all the way down going you had a prostate exam what no no no no but i obviously yes obviously i know that there's two ways at it uh you can get you i i'm honestly i sort of did a lot of prostate exams in my sort of my 20s but the but uh sort of like in a kind of you know in a sort of not a clinical setting ministered yeah um uh but but got it you have a theory you're diagnosing him anyway that's what i think i think he didn't want i think that he doesn't want people to know that he was getting something looked at at his prostate that's what i think is going on that's my ongoing theory i think that ben tyers uh is a a brilliant reporter who got access uh to the White House for ostensibly a story about the president's health.

1:17:56And the story he ends up writing is really about just like aging dictator thinking about his death. That is that is because he realizes that he doesn't have that much longer. You know, he says at one point when he was at Jimmy Carter's funeral within 10 years, this is going to be me. You know, according to one source in the story and the coterie of sycophants around him who just like live to make sure that they are praising him publicly. and curry favor with him so that like they are the chosen one and marco rubio some quotes that are marco at one point marco rubio is asked about his health and he says to ben taras the guy is too healthy he's too active he's too marco rubio thinks he's too healthy he's too healthy the north korea shit in the story is amazing like there's so he uh ben taras has three different people a few different people about trump falling asleep in meetings you read the the active listening one from Caroline Levitt.

1:18:53Marco Rubio says it's a listening mechanism. That's his spin on it. And then Will Scharf, who's the goober who does the staff secretary, is asked about this. And he says he's always awake, always alert, always knows what's going on. It's not dozing. Sometimes if he's thinking about something, and I made that mistake at first too, he adopts a pose. So it's a listening pose when you close your eyes and not your head into your chest. What's funny too about that too is like the piece does acknowledge that his hearing is getting worse yes i will i i want to i want to defend i'm going to say this i would like to defend christy gnome i when she made that point about the hurricanes she was joking she oh yeah that was clearly a joke i think people have tried to suggest that she was like like kind of giving him credit on the end i think there are enough people without a sense of humor that have not taken that as a joke that i've seen yeah i think the problem is that you could imagine it being real you know I mean, you can.

1:19:48Given the tenor of the other comments. It's a lot about his legacy and what he's thinking. One Republican operative with ties to the administration said he doesn't think of legacy in terms of policies enacted. Yes, great quote. It's buildings he can leave behind and prizes he can win. And then you get a direct quote from Eric Trump saying, he's having more fun building this ballroom than I can possibly tell you. And it's like, this is. Go do that. I mean, reading this on a day like today, we were talking about everything else. I'm like, this is exactly what's going on in there. He's making money.

1:20:16he wants the prizes he's talking to Marco Rubio about pendants and a chandelier at the State Department and he's like you don't have enough pendants there and then suddenly he's got 12 different samples for Rubio to choose from because he's trying to be a fucking interior decorator like this guy is the President of the United States and all he can think about is what is immediately around him what he has, the nice things around him, where he can put his name this is it! Everyone's like what's his psychology? Who's this? This is all there is. And the thing is, like, he is so diminished. You know, you go look at this, like, the speeches he gave from 2016 to now.

1:20:58He's a much like kind of his, he's much less able to find words. He's constantly searching for words he can't remember. He's slower. His sentences make even less sense than they did before. Like, it all gets categorized into, oh, he's nuts, but he's really like aging in front of our eyes. And that's just something we do now with about 60 % of American presidents. We just watch them age before our eyes. And then later we get the reporting about how bad it was. And they all think that retirement is the same as death. And they all know somebody who retired and then died so that everyone clings. And that's clearly what happened with Biden.

1:21:33That's clearly what happened with Dianne Feinstein, like countless senators. And Trump basically admits it in this piece too. It's an old father's line of his. Can I read you guys one hilarious quote? I thought this was just so funny. So the context for this quote is Trump talking about how his parents lived well into their 90s. And he says to Ben Terrace, I had this friend whose mother died at 49 of a heart attack. His father died at 51 of a heart attack. He's now 60. I said, you're fucked. He watches everything he eats, but you can't beat genetics. Imagine saying that to your friend. Their parents died young and the guy's trying to be healthy.

1:22:03He says, you're fucked. The other is how much he hates exercise. it says that recently after he'd been dealing with swelling in his lower legs and ankles owing to his circulatory condition doctors recommended he walk more he asked his staff if there was anything else he could do instead besides walking no that's that's about the lowest lift you can wear we'll dangle you from your fucking ankles in the diplomat in the dip room what are you talking about yeah walk uphill for 15 minutes it's also like you know your circulation problem from being so perfect from having such perfect health. And just in case you're wondering whether these doctors are on the level, the piece ends with, he point blank turns to one of the doctors and he's like, you were one of Obama's doctors too.

1:22:48Quick, who was healthier? Me or Obama? And like instantly the doctor's like, you. You, yes sir. Yeah, Donald Trump. Not the guy 15 years younger. I love that. The 235 pound 79 year old man. Yeah, and love to your point, it's like he is old. He lives an unhealthy lifestyle. Like being president's the hardest thing in the world, the hand thing is weird. The MRIs are really weird. If his staff was just normal about it and they were like, yep, he's slowing down a bit, but like, look at his schedule. He's worth the Davos did like seven press conference today. I think that would kind of be the end of it, but they do this North Korea shit where the doctors have to say he's healthier than Obama.

1:23:19They got RFK Jr. in the story, quoting Dr. Oz being like, I tested the hard way. And this man's testosterone is off the charts. And it's like, what are we doing? He's a high T guy. It's gross. And it's like, you know, like if they would just chill out, I think people wouldn't care as much. And at the same time, like there's all these Democrats who want Trump's age to be the same as Biden's age, but they kind of forget that Trump isn't running again. So there's just not the same level of interest in what comes next for him. Yeah. Trump isn't running in. And again, Trump has always been about 100 times crazier than Joe Biden.

1:23:52I cannot conceive of what is going on in that White House presidential bathroom when this guy is eating nothing but burnt red meat and Diet Cokes. he does not exercise god only knows what kinds of just like no one if anyone in if america could see the shits that this man is taking the question about him being what then what then what then what they'd all be like he's gotta go he's gotta go this is that would be it that would be it that's the articles of impeachment would finally move that's what we think so i think so just fucking white knuckleted in there there's no fiber in this fucking diet there's no fiber i think it's i honestly think it might be maybe not much is going on i think this might be one like basically whenever he goes on those all night truth social things that's the shit of the week that's the one time where he's just grabs the white marble he's had installed and unleashes unleashes what could like from the bowels of hell.

1:24:59Something God forsaken. You ever seen the movie The Last Emperor? When like the, it's about the Emperor of China and these like, these aides like examine smell the new king's shits. Do you think that's what like Stephen Miller and those guys are up to? Apparently that's what Rubio and Vance are doing because the other thing is he has not decided which of them he wants to succeed him and so he tells Vance you're my guy and he tells Rubio you're my guy. Of course he does that. Your farts smell like flowers, sir. I think they smell more like perfume, sir. I think they're more like baked cookies, sir.

1:25:31Meanwhile, while they're like praising him in these cabin meetings, he's asleep because he's like, they're fucking boring. Yeah, he's practicing mindfulness. Which is right. By the way, CNN's reporting that DHS suspended Greg Bovino's access to his social media accounts because he spent yesterday responding to people criticizing him. Wow. So maybe this guy's really getting slapped around a little bit. I can't believe the first administration official whose social media account has been suspended was Greg Bovino. Really hit him where it hurts, I guess. Unbelievable. All right, that's our show for today.

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