Dallas Bribers Club

24:13Jon Favreau:It's done. Look forward. You got to get a scoop. Eight ounces of cold water every morning before the day starts running you. Who's in charge of your life? You? If not, take some AG1. Get some goddamn control over yourself. AG1 is a daily health drink with a multivitamin, pre and probiotic, superfoods and antioxidants. One scoop, eight ounces of water. It helps you stay in a routine and keep up with your wellness goals. High quality nutritional support every single day, no matter where you start your morning. The NextGen formula there are 75 plus ingredients clinically shown to support gut health.

24:43Jon Favreau:fill common nutrition gaps, and improve key nutrient levels within three months. AG1 is great. It really fits into your routine. It's the easiest habit. You know, look, every morning, you don't know what you're gonna eat that day, but for me, whenever I have breakfast and I make sure I have my vitamins, I have AG1, I have something to make sure that I'm like starting the day right. And you should do that too because God knows you're f***ing up everything else. All right? For a limited time, save 20 % on your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro at drinkag1.com slash crooked. That's drinkag1.com slash crooked.

25:17Jon Favreau:Pots of America is brought to you by Helix. If you're like me, sleep is very, very important to your life. If you get a good night's sleep, you're better at work, you're happier at home, you're more productive, you feel better, your body feels better. And if you get a bad night's sleep, all bets are off. Real sleep starts with the right mattress. Upgrade your sleep quality with a Helix mattress. How do you know which mattress is right for you? Take the Helix Sleep Quiz and it'll match you with the perfect mattress based on your personal preferences and sleep needs. They have over 20 mattress models so you can find the perfect model just for you.

25:49Jon Favreau:Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the U.S. The Happy With Helix guarantee offers a risk-free, customer-first experience designed to ensure you're completely satisfied with your new mattress so you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. Plus, Helix offers a 120-night sleep trial and a limited lifetime warranty. I love our Helix mattress. It is super comfortable. We have one in our guest room. I've slept on it many times. Whenever guests come to our house, they say they love this mattress. They tell us how comfortable it is. It shows up really fast and easy.

26:19Jon Favreau:It gets literally delivered right to your door. Just could not recommend it enough. Go to helixsleep.com slash crooked for 27 % offsite wide. This offer is exclusive to Pod Save America listeners. That's helixsleep.com slash crooked for 27 % offsite wide. helixsleep.com slash crooked.

26:40Jon Favreau:Before Trump took the stage to close things out on Thursday night, J.D. Vance gave the keynote address. It was hard to cut down such a masterpiece to just a few highlights, but we tried. Let's listen. Democrats are running candidates who will tell your children what they're allowed to say, how they're allowed to live, and importantly, who they ought to hate. Because that's what the Democrat Party is about in 2026. It's not about you. It's about foreign fraudsters and it's about who they hate and we got to send their asses packing in November. The country does not belong to the radicals. It does not belong to the bureaucrats.

27:18Jon Favreau:It does not belong to the highest bidder. This country was handed down to us by our parents and their parents before them. We received this national birthright and we are gonna fight for it by elected Republicans this November. We just had a protester interrupting us and waving the Mexican flag. Well, well, my friend, if you love Mexico so much, get your ass over there. I'll buy you the plane ticket. If you're ever feeling down about our country, ladies and gentlemen, just take a look at the beautiful ladies right behind me. Ladies, I'd like to know what you had to drink because I'll take two of them when I'm done.

27:58Jon Favreau:What did that mean? Do you think? I think they were drunk and they were being rowdy. And I didn't notice it until he said it. And then I was watching them for the rest of his speech. And they did seem a little boisterous, perhaps. I don't want to accuse them of being drunk. He was so surprised at people being excited at one of his speeches. He assumed they were drunk. What do you think, Dan? Did he win you over with that speech? He did not win me over. I am very curious of your take as a speechwriter on this speech, I'm going to tell you right now what I think the reception is going to be. I think that the sort of the press and the establishment, sort of the political establishment writ large is going to be very impressed with at least the reception to this speech and view it as the official, unofficial, I guess, kickoff of Vance's presidential campaign where he made his most compelling case for himself to date.

28:58Jon Favreau:That's how I think it's going to be covered. I do think they'll definitely see it as the unofficial kickoff. And I can't tell how they'll receive it. But why do you think they will receive it well? Because people generally don't applaud when he speaks. And they applauded here. And I think he... How would you describe the case he made for himself? Not breaking, not stepping on a rake in the middle of it. I don't think he made a very good case for himself. but I don't think the people, the sort of the figure skating judges who grade these things pay a lot of attention to the consistency of the argument or how the message plays outside of the room.

29:39Jon Favreau:I think in this room, he did a much better job of sounding kind of sort of sane and coherent compared to all the other speakers who sounded fucking bananas, Trump most included. I think he's got, I think he's got a potentially unsolvable problem. Well, yeah, that's for sure. Which is like, and now, I'll start with your first point about like how it gets judged. Like, my favorite line from you has been, the Democrats are like reading the stage directions. Yes. It's like all I can think about now when I see a Democratic politician. J.D. Vance, to me, is the Republican version of reading the stage directions.

30:28Jon Favreau:and he's also the Republican version of another problem we have in our party, which is the too many front of the class students who are like, I'm going to study my way to the presidency and I'm going to make sure I listen to all my strategists and do all the things that I'm supposed to do and that poll well and I'm going to write the speech in the right way and I'm not going to be crazy like this one and I'm going to walk this tightrope and I think he is a smart person. I don't think J.D. Vance is dumb. I think he's very smart. And so I think he thinks that he is going to study his way to the presidency, write the speeches, work on the speeches, deliver the speeches that he's supposed to give, deliver the messages that he's supposed to give.

31:11Jon Favreau:And it is going to fall incredibly flat because it doesn't sound authentic. He sounds so phony. He doesn't have the problem of sounding crazy. That is absolutely right. but that is no longer, um, I think how he is going to be judged as the 2028 race goes on. Like there is no other Trump, right. And Trump is crazy. And then there's Republicans who sound crazy and all that kind of stuff. But like, I just think that he doesn't, his problem is not that like, he sounds too crazy. His problem is that he's too fucking boring and phony and smarmy. and like I just don't I don't believe that he sold any of those fine lines that I'm sure like I don't know if they pull well but they're like you said they're not crazy right but like I just don't think it's going to wear well yeah I don't think it's going to get any I don't think it's going to get anyone excited and I don't think he's going to be able to elide the I think he's not as smart as he thinks he is Correct.

32:18Jon Favreau:Which is, he thinks that, like, he had this whole part in the speech about, he talks about Charlie Kirk, right? This is the day, the first anniversary of Charlie Kirk's assassination. And he remembers Charlie, and then he uses Charlie to talk about the war in Iran. He doesn't say Iran, but he says, Charlie hated war. And I know that there are a lot of young men who loved Charlie and were big fans of Charlie and now are disillusioned. and you know if you're disillusioned and maybe it's about war just know that like you can have a disagreement and be on a different side of one issue and still not throw out the baby with the bath water and vote for the crazy democrats vote for us and it's like and if he thinks that he is going to solve the problem of donald trump uh breaking his promise to not get involved in more wars by like some rhetorical flourish where he's like using Charlie Kirk's death.

33:19Jon Favreau:Like, I just, it's not going to work. It is, it is too cute by half. I want to stipulate a few things here. Sure. I was speaking to how I think the press is going to receive it. And that's a question of low expectations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think the expectations for J.D. Vance are understandably quite low because he's a pretty terrible public speaker. From a pure performance, right? Like the, how he sounded, how he was received, how he filled the podium. and this was probably one of his better moments. And there aren't a lot of good moments, so it's not saying a ton. I think, I agree with you that J.D.

33:49Jon Favreau:Vance is not as smart as he thinks he is, but I think his bigger problem is that the voters are smarter than J.D. Vance thinks they are. Yeah. Because everything, like, you can listen to it, and it is, like, he really is like a sophist. Like, it is, he, like, is weaving these arguments together, and, like, each individual sentence makes sense. But then you step back, particularly if you ever knew, and you and I both done this, you'd go back and read the speech afterwards, and it makes no fucking sense. And it's like full of inherent contradictions. His problem is, and this has nothing to do with the kind of speeches, like how he delivers a speech, even becomes great at keeping speech, it's not going to solve the problem, is the only good politicians are politicians who truly understand who they are.

34:29Jon Favreau:They've gone through some period of self-discovery. And J.D. Vance has no idea who he is. He is just, he is a, he is a shapeshifter, a code switcher for whatever works in the moment, right? He is one way when he's at Ohio State. He's one way at Ivy League Law School. He is one way when it seems like Trump's going to lose. He's one way when he thinks Trump's going to win. And he is just constantly trying to do what he thinks makes sense in that moment. Because there is no set of values or morals or personal code that dictates how he should respond in a moment. He is dictating. And so that inauthenticity is what, But that is like the core defining principle of every losing presidential candidate of this half century.

35:15Jon Favreau:It's what killed Al Gore. It's what killed John Kerry. It is what destroyed Mitt Romney. It is what hurt Hillary Clinton. Like across the board, this is why people lose. And he has all the makings of a losing presidential candidate. Now, Democrats have to nominate the right person because sometimes bad candidates do win. But he is a very, very flawed candidate. But you could like, I was watching that speech and every single line, you're like, I know what he's doing here. He was like hitting the Maha notes at the top where he's talking about checking all the boxes there. Exactly. And and then even the way he handled the heckler seemed.

35:52Jon Favreau:I mean, we were all joking. False flag, false flag, because it was so like, there's the heckler. I'm going to stop the speech. And I wrote this whole speech. But now I'm going to have to do. And he actually said this. Now I'm going to have to do something different. and turn to the heckler and go back to Mexico. And then he was like, so proud of himself. And it's like, you know, maybe it was just in the moment and it wasn't staged or whatever. I'm not going to fucking throw out any conspiracies. But it was like, even that, which was potentially ad-libbed, seemed like it was staged. And I mean, it's just, it's so phony.

36:24Jon Favreau:It's so phony. You really saw that, not just in the speech, but when he was doing that interview a few weeks ago, where he's like, decides, he's like, this is the moment. I'm going to defend Usha. against Abdul El-Sayed. And it just seems like, even that, it seems, the whole thing about us, Pawpaw and Abdul, it all seems so fake. And that part, like, that would work, his whole, you know, retort to Abdul, that would work if people didn't remember that he was the guy who went out there and said, yeah, we pushed these completely unproven, false conspiracies that Haitian immigrants were eating pets because I disagree with Joe Biden's policy of allowing them to legally be in this country.

37:10Jon Favreau:And so I'm going to admit that we just pushed false conspiracies because we wanted to get attention to that fact. It's like, we all remember you said that. So like, you can't be all offended by accusations of racism now and xenophobia now when we all just remembered what was happening in that campaign and suddenly be so offended by all this. I mean, even his like, Like he had this line about Tallarico, right? And he's doing the like, Tallarico can't stop talking about transgender children, which is crazy. That's true. You know, right. It's like there's one time in one interview where they were like, Tallarico's like, I love transgender children because he'd just seen them that day and they've like made a whole thing about it, right?

37:50Jon Favreau:And so his line is, a guy that age who was so obsessed and focused on transgender children, I don't know about you, but I never want to see that guy's web browser history. It's not a good place. that is a line that also wouldn't survive one follow-up question from an interviewer. It's like, oh, so you're saying that what evidence do you have that James Tallarico like wants to fuck kids? Is that what you're because you're talking about his web browser? Like, what are you talking about? I would love to hear J.D. Vance answer that because he would fall apart because he it's a line. He can't like Trump could handle that.

38:24Jon Favreau:You ask Trump that question. He would do his Trump thing and he would get past it and it would be like, oh, what's Trump? Whatever. J.D. Vance couldn't get away with that. because there is no answer to why did you say that line. Yeah. Yeah. What did you make, put aside Vance's performance, like this was the clearest distillation. And one thing I'd say about the speech is just, it was really a lot about him for just a midterm campaign speech. So he really was viewing this as sort of his introductory presidential election speech. But let's just put that aside for a second. This was the clearest distillation, I think, of what their campaign strategy is, which is the, even if you don't love the Republicans, and the things we've done.

39:02Jon Favreau:It's not as good as you want. Prices are still high. We are at war. The Democrats are fucking crazy. Do you think he handled that part well? Does that strategy worry you at all? I don't think he handled it. Again, he is... He went through the deleted tweets of many a Democrat. Well, that's what I'm saying, though. It's like, if I was trying to make that argument, I think there are maybe not like, okay, saying that, you know, he's talking about the deleted tweets from Will Lawrence in Michigan 7, where he said, like, fuck the nuclear family in a tweet, right? I think it is hard to pin that on the entire Democratic Party, since no one else has said anything close to that, even in their deleted tweets.

39:48Jon Favreau:And so, which is, again, is something that it's easy for someone to find out. And so if I was going to make that argument, there's plenty of other positions that Democrats have taken, and maybe a lot of Democrats have taken, that I would try to build an argument around about why those positions are out of step with the American people. Just like nut picking a few tweets from like one house candidate here and one house candidate there. I just think that act is going to get old. He, the whole party has this problem. Trump had this problem, especially in 2020, which is like J.D. Vance talks like he is so fucking online.

40:24Jon Favreau:Yeah, that's exactly right. And the reason we all get it and probably the reporters too. I mean, to your earlier point about how they judge it, like everyone who is super online and super engaged in politics and political fucking junkies who can't get off their phones know all the things J.D. Vance was talking about. He's going to get out on that trail as a candidate for president and start saying some of this shit. And most people are going to be like, what do you mean? What are you talking about? Yeah, this is that you've hit on his big like Trump is. Overly versed in his in the lore of MAGA stuff and right wing media.

40:57Jon Favreau:that's because Natalie Hart prints it out and hands it to him. But J.D. Vance is like in the dark corners of the internet. His brain is, Trump's brain is not warped by the algorithm because he's not looking at the internet in that same way. J.D. Vance's is. And he is emblematic of this much bigger problem that you see with Republican strategists, which is their brains are all pickled too. And, you know, whenever I'm doing political experts react and reviewing Republican ads, they're all two steps over the line because they require some sort, They both require a belief in the worldview of Fox News about what is actually happening out there, that we all live in this dystopian world where, you know, MS-13 is killing everyone on the street corner.

41:38Jon Favreau:And you have to understand, like, chapter and verse of the lore of MAGA. And, like, that, J.D. Vance has it, but that speech had that problem. Like, you and I were like, that's Will Lawrence's tweet, but no one knows who Will Lawrence is or that's his tweet or what the fuck he's talking about. Right. Like, look, he's, he is trying to put a, like, I think every vice president who's running probably has to look at the president and be like, okay, what don't people like even in my party about the president that I served with? And like, what's my, how am I going to differentiate myself? Mostly. Not everyone does that apparently.

42:11Jon Favreau:Not everyone does that, but the successful ones. And clearly in this speech, you could tell that J.D. Vance, like there's so much talk about family and kids and he wants like a family friendly MAGA version. and that's what he's going to try to put forward. It's very national conservatism. He wants to sand the rough edges off that. He doesn't want it to appear too mean. But if he does have any kind of belief, it is the belief that he has espoused many times in speeches that we probably won't hear again where he talks about it's blood and soil nationalism. That is what he believes if he believes anything.

42:48Jon Favreau:And I think he's smart enough to know that that doesn't wear well with the general electorate at all. And so he's trying to sand down the rough edges on it, but it's just, I don't, it's going to be hard for him. It's going to be hard, but we'll see. Did you see Marco Rubio today? Asked about his potential plans to run for president in 2028. And he said, quote, I don't know what the future holds, but I have no plans at this time. At this time. Did you take anything from at this time or do you think it's just reading too much into it? No, I think I took it very specifically at this time, meaning he's keeping the door open.

43:24Yeah.

43:25Jon Favreau:It's going to be interesting to see how that friendship with Vance, that close friendship, wears over time and then in the coming months. If we can get a Vance, Rubio, Hegsef, Ted Cruz primary. Oh my God. Because Ted Cruz is deadly serious and he's talking. Ted Cruz is running. He hates Vance. You know, we may get... Wow, I'm trying to think of that. That's quite a stage. I don't think Rubio and Vance both run together, right? My suspicion is Rubio does not run, but Vance obviously runs and maybe Cruz runs too. Yeah, I think that's probably right. Anyway, we have enough time to talk about that later.

43:58Jon Favreau:You're hearing this on the 25th anniversary of the 9-11 attacks. And while Republicans chose not to align the convention with the day itself, the people on stage and on Fox News did take the opportunity to paint Democrats as terrorist sympathizers, particularly Muslim Democrats like Abdul El-Sayed and Zoran Mamdani. Let's watch. I know what they're capable of. And I know what happens when America becomes afraid to call evil by its name. September 11th isn't something that we deserved, no matter what Abdul's buddies say. Abdul is funding his campaign with money from terrorist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood.

44:36Jon Favreau:He wants to represent Palestine. I want to represent Michigan. And on 9-11, could anyone have imagined that Comrade Mondami would be the mayor of New York? When he goes down to 9-11, I hate to even say this, Laura, but you know, it's a message to Osama bin Laden that, look, we conquered New York. It's going to be a tough message to deliver. Yeah, there's a lot of - To Osama bin Laden. There's a lot of questions about what's going on there. One - That crazy woman was an Izzy City Council woman in New York. So that's not just— Yeah, an elected official. That's cool. That's not just a fucking, you know, random guest on Fox.

45:17Jon Favreau:Yeah, I had seen that clip a thousand times, and it wasn't until you told me that she was an elected official, paid for with taxpayer dollars. People in New York have voted for her. She has received some votes from people. There's just—like, when we are afraid to call evil by its name, is its name evil? Is that what Mike Rogers is saying? Or have we stopped saying evil now? Like, I'm not sure what is going on there. it is true that no one on September 11, 2001 could have imagined Mondani being mayor because he was nine. So that was surprising. I mean, what do you make of all of this? This has been a real drumbeat that is now crescendoed here on the anniversary of 9-11 with, and mostly it's about Abdul in Michigan.

45:59Jon Favreau:I mean, they're still doing it to Mondani. It's about Hassan Piker is what it's about. It's about Hassan Piker. Well, I think it's mostly about Abdul, but it's trying to, they're using Hassan Piker as the easiest way to try to stop Abdul from winning. I just am not sure. Like, this is Fox has been doing this for 25 years now. There is this, there's been this sense that after 9-11, like the way to win was to portray Democrats as on the side of Al-Qaeda. And that worked in 2002. It worked in 2004. It stopped working in 2006. It hasn't really worked since then. And with every passing year, It's less effective.

46:36Jon Favreau:And I just, there are a lot of things that they are going to do. Usually, I'm not even, that is just pure anti-Muslim bigotry. Nothing else. Like, it's just incredibly offensive and just openly racist in every way, shape, or form. There are a lot of things they're going to do to try to paint Abdul outside of sort of the mainstream American political conversation. A lot of it is going to be racist. It is going to be quite offensive. I really don't think the one thing that Hassan Piker said, which he has apologized for about 9-11, is a particularly effective attack. Do you think it's even more effective when they spend a lot of time at the convention showing giant photos of Hassan and Espido?

47:22Jon Favreau:I don't know how that would affect the Republicans. I'd like to see their web browsers.

47:31Jon Favreau:All right. One last topic to touch on here, reluctantly. On Wednesday evening, John Fetterman made a surprise appearance by video to introduce his fellow Pennsylvania Senator, Dave McCormick. Let's watch. Big room of Republicans in Dallas. Yes, I'm Senator John Fetterman, Pennsylvania. Yes, I'm a Democrat. Why am I here talking to you today? Because, well, I'm a common sense Democrat. I'm always going to stand with America. I'm always going to reject the extremes and socialism and that anti-American way of life. I have this opportunity to introduce this great American, a great senator. And yes, he's in a different party, but I'm proud to count him as my great friend.

48:14Jon Favreau:So for everybody in Dallas, I'm here to introduce Dave McCormick. compelling piece of content, regardless of how you feel about his appearance. So this got a lot of attention. Of course, Democrats were already fuming at Fetterman for cozying up to Republicans. Love and I talked about this on YouTube on Thursday, but would you like to weigh in on this? I find it very irksome that he did this. I think that the fact that John Fetterman today is the exact opposite of what John Fetterman ran on. only four years ago. And that is incredibly frustrating and it is a real disservice and betrayal to the various Pennsylvania.

48:55Jon Favreau:But people, I'll let you in on a secret. We have one goal and one goal only. Keep John Fetterman in this party for the next two years until he loses his primary in 2028, which he will certainly lose because his approval rating among Democrats is like 45 points underwater. Yeah. So it sucks. It is annoying. He still votes with us 90 % of the time. He's mostly just trolling us all of the time by going on Fox News and doing very, very annoying things. And obviously the things he has said about Israel and about people who are good faith critics of Israel are incredibly offensive and terrible. But like, we're stuck.

49:31Jon Favreau:We're stuck with John Fetterman for two years because if he leaves, makes it that much harder to get the Senate majority. I, yeah, I thought it was orcsum. And then I saw, like, he put out a statement right afterwards and said, I'm still a Democrat. and if we win and take back the Senate, I will be the 51st vote for Democrats like I promised I would be or something to that effect. Yeah. And so like, now, he could change his mind, of course, but if that's where he is right now, then that's where he is right now. And, you know, yelling about it, flipping out about it, like what I just, what is it going to do?

50:10Jon Favreau:What is the purpose? What is the usefulness of this? Each individual person can be mad and should be mad, particularly if you're a voter in Pennsylvania, should be mad. The people of power and influence in the party who are like, get out of the party, not helpful. We need him in the party, unfortunately. No, and the reason we need him is, I said this before, but say it again, like having him as the 51st vote, if that's what he is, could be the difference between, you know, replacing Sam Alito or Clarence Thomas or God knows someone else with Eileen Cannon for 40 years on the Supreme Court or not.

50:54Jon Favreau:So it's like, you know, and yeah, he has broken, he has voted to confirm a lot of Trump's appointees, cabinet officials. He's broken with the Democrats on some like government shutdown stuff. But judges, 42 out of 46 Trump judges he has voted against. and he has not voted for a single appellate court judge from Donald Trump. So even if it's just judges that he's voting with Democrats on and just voting with Democrats to make a Democratic majority leader, leader of the Senate, that's good enough till 2028. It is good enough. It's not fun, but it's what we got. Yeah. All right, Dan, before we go, the Republican convention did wrap up with Trump's very similar condensed version of his Wednesday night speech given again on Thursday night.

51:44Jon Favreau:There was one new part that we should we should leave you all with. Let's take a watch. Please raise your right hand. I pledge to the greatest president in the history of the United States.

52:04Jon Favreau:That loves us so much he can't even breathe.

52:12Jon Favreau:That I will go out with my family, my friends. I'll do it anyway. I don't care if I'm registered or not. I'm going to try and cheat like hell like they do. And we are going to vote on November 3rd or we are going to vote before that. You know what happens if you don't vote? You go to hell. You know that. Take it from that guy. That's what I'm taking. That's our message to our listeners too. Go vote. Go vote. Do register, but go vote. Yes, no cheating. I don't think you go to hell if you don't vote. No, I don't think so either. But go vote. Go vote. All right. When we come back, Republican candidate for governor of California, Steve Hilton.

53:05Jon Favreau:Pod Save America is brought to you by BILT. Here's a question. Are you getting rewarded for paying your rent or mortgage right now? If the answer is no, you need to check out built. Becoming a built member means earning points on every housing payment. No matter where you live, built points can be redeemed for flights, hotels, lift rides, amazon.com purchases, future housing payments, and more. You can get, uh, uh, all these great things. There's restaurants on there. You can, uh, get a built home delivery powered by go puff gift cards, built new AI neighborhood concierge. It doesn't just answer questions.

53:33Jon Favreau:It executes tasks from paying your rent and handling a lift to booking dinner reservations across 50 ,000 plus partners. It handles your to-do list while automatically applying your membership benefits. First, download the Built app. Second, link any credit or debit card to the app so purchases at your local spot become even more rewarding. And third, ask the neighborhood concierge in the app pretty much anything and it'll alert you about exclusive member benefits near your home. Download the Built app and join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt.com slash crooked. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com slash crooked.

54:05Jon Favreau:Use our link so they know we sent you.

54:33Jon Favreau:Apple Vacations, where your story starts. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try a new food and suddenly it's like, okay, hold on, I got a new favorite food. That's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Kewpie mayo. Yeah, it's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it at the grocery store. And this mayo is different. Most mayonnaise uses whole eggs. Kewpie only uses egg yolks, which gives it this rich umami flavor.

55:08Jon Favreau:It's smoother, deeper, almost buttery. Once people try it, they start putting it on everything. Egg sandwiches, fries, burgers. Chefs use it, restaurants use it, people who really care about flavor use it. Put it on just about anything. Then you'll understand. Kewpie, the original Japanese mayonnaise.

55:27Jon Favreau:He's the Republican nominee for governor in the state of California. Steve Hilton, welcome to the pod. It's great to be here. So I want to start by saying that I appreciate that you reached out to the show to come and talk to us. I give you a lot of credit, especially when we have not been able to book Democratic candidate Javier Becerra. Is that right? We have we have we tried in the primary. We are still trying. I believe we have not heard back from our most recent inquiry. Well, maybe he'll do it. Maybe the best service I can give you is like, finally, you'll get Javier now that I'm... I think it's going to work, actually.

56:01Jon Favreau:I actually do. Now, I want to start with this. What is your pitch to Democratic voters in this state who may be frustrated with Democratic governance here, but cannot imagine voting for a candidate endorsed by Donald Trump? I totally get that, just to be clear. I'm on the road the whole time in California. and we're doing events up and down the state, town halls, hundreds of them now. And increasingly, Democrats are coming. And they ask questions about that. And so I really understand. Most of my friends are Democrats. And most of my life, actually, my friends have been on the other side of the political divide.

56:38So I totally get it. That's the first point. And it's a totally reasonable question. And I think that the simple answer for me is that I'm not, first of all, I'm running for governor, not him. secondly i'm not uh i i'm not an ideologue i'm not particularly tribal actually when it comes to politics most of my career has been in business i'm a pragmatic kind of problem solving kind of person we can all see things are going wrong in california i just want to fix what's wrong about this beautiful state that's so amazing in so many ways but we can all see it's it's frustratingly off track everything's so expensive we can get into that but you're not going to get someone who's trying to tell you how to live or what to do or impose any kind of worldview in that sense.

57:25You're just going to get someone who wants to make it easier to live, to run a business, do something about some of the visible problems we have, like homelessness. That's the pitch, really. You can still be anti-Trump, as many millions of Democrats in California are strongly so, and vote for me. You don't have to change your party. You don't have to change your politics. You just have to vote for change in this election. And there's one last thing I'll say, which is a very important word. I mean, you hear the word change, you know, better than most in elections the whole time. Actually, in this instance in California, there's another word that I think is just as important, and that is balance.

58:03So we've had 16 years now where one party's been running everything. And I just think most people would agree that's not healthy, whoever it is. in history, when you've got that kind of political dominance by one party, whether that's right or left, it ends badly. And I just think having a bit of balance in the mix, you know, it's very likely that not just that Democrats will control the legislature after this year's elections, but they'll continue to have a supermajority. So we're just talking about, you know, this is not a MAGA takeover of California. This is just a bit of common sense balance in the mix.

58:41Jon Favreau:So I think for me, and I assume for a lot of others, to be open to voting for someone who's not just endorsed by Trump, but supports, you continue to support Donald Trump. You believe he's a good president? No, I don't agree with everything he's done. Not at all. But do you support Donald Trump right now as you're sitting here at this table? Well, would I vote for him again? I mean, he's not on the ballot. I haven't really thought about that as a sort of... You don't know right now. I'm saying, do you support Donald Trump? Donald Trump is the current president. Do you support him? I think that's too broad of a question.

59:10I disagree with a lot of the things that he's doing. I think that, again, I think these are too broad, right? I think it comes to specific things.

59:19Jon Favreau:And that's fine. But the reason I'm pushing on that, I'm sorry, I want to move off of Trump. But I think the problem, right, is that it'd be nice if we could separate what's happening in Washington, what's happening here. but I think it matters, right? Because there's a threshold question for people who may be bothered by what they see as kind of feckless misrule that we have in California. I am, right? But I worry, right, that like I would love to vote for a change, right? I worry that Javier Becerra doesn't represent that change. But there's threshold moral questions that anyone I could possibly support would have to pass.

59:55Jon Favreau:And I want to challenge you as to whether or not you pass those. That's why I'm asking this. So ask me specifics. Let's do it. What are you worried about? So you said recently that Joe Biden won the 2020 election. Yes. Right? However, in 2020, you said it wasn't a fair election right after. You said that you wanted McConnell to have a full Senate investigation into the 2020 election to be majority leader. You said the FBI directly interfered in the 2020 election. As recently as May, you refused to answer as to whether Biden won. Now, I understand why you would say now. And I'm glad in July you did say Joe Biden won the election.

1:00:32Fine. I always said that, by the way. That May thing is weird. I know exactly what you're talking about. It was a classic kind of on the campaign trail thing. I was in, we were on the road, and it was, I think you're talking about the MSNB. That was, yes. Exactly. And I've always said that. I've always given that answer. I've never maintained anything. I've never said anything different. And so they kept going on about it. I said, I've already said it. I've said it. So I don't think I've ever... You haven't evolved on this issue? Not on that one. Now, the other thing, on the who won the election, no, I've never believed anything different.

1:01:09On those specific things, like immediately after the election, when there was a lot of conversation about what happened and so on, everyone was saying what I was saying then, which is, okay, let's say Biden was saying that. Mitt Romney was saying that. What were they saying? Everyone was saying what? that we should have a, you know, that questions have been raised about the election. We've got to make sure everyone's, you know, those questions are put to rest and properly investigated.

1:01:35Jon Favreau:This is where I think you're very smooth. But that's what Romney and Biden were saying. Very different than what you were saying. You were saying that the election is in dispute, that America is becoming a banana republic. You've recently said our electoral system is a joke. Well, it is in California. Even the New York Times said that. We take too long to counter ballots, agreed. But what I'm hearing, right, you're saying that, oh, I always believed that Joe Biden won the election. However, there have been times when I've been reluctant to say so. And I support someone who is lying about the outcome of something fundamentally sacred in a democracy.

1:02:10Jon Favreau:But I believe Donald Trump, I supported Donald Trump's election in 2024, even though he denied the results of an election that you're saying Joe Biden won fair and free in a democracy. Again, I think we've got to be really precise about it. I think everyone can see that the 2020 election was really messed up. It was in the, COVID was going on. You had very, a large number of last minute changes were made to the voting system that were done in a bit of a rush, driven by the need to accommodate COVID rules. And people couldn't, you know, like, okay, we've got to do mail-in voting because people can't show up.

1:02:45All these things were done.

1:02:46Jon Favreau:But you've also, but see, this is what I mean. And now I think you're saying better things. I think it was a uniquely messed up election. But you also said it was because Democrats wanted to boost Democratic votes to have an unfair advantage in the election. I think the Democrats believed that more mail-in voting would help them. Yes, I still believe that. I think that's what— And that wasn't because of the sort of a once-in-a-century pandemic. You think it was a crass motivation. I think it was both. I think there's no question that they believe—I think they still believe. You know, why did Democrats enact ballot harvesting?

1:03:17For example, in California and all these different rules, the seven-day counting after Election Day, I think that they believe— Well, because they're postmarked by Election Day. Well, but not necessarily postmarked. You can handwrite it. You know, all these things that people just look at, including The New York Times, as I say, and say, look, come on. These things just don't pass the smell test in terms of what makes sense for making sure people— you have elections that people have confidence in, we get a result quickly. And I think 2020 was a uniquely messed up election. And I think that the criticisms I made at the time and still have are totally reasonable.

1:03:56Now, in terms of the outcome, I mean, I've never challenged the outcome. I really haven't. But the points I made then, I still would reiterate now that I think that there were problems with how those changes were made. They were rushed through. that meant that you had all this kind of swirl of, you know, complaint and uncertainty and whatever. And I think that that's, it was, but I think that's, you know, that was 2020. It was the middle of a pandemic. You try and run an election in the middle of a pandemic. Changes were made to the system. And I think that they were done in a rush and in a way that undermined confidence in the election.

1:04:36I really believe that today.

1:04:38Jon Favreau:And so when Donald Trump questions the results in other elections, you think that is wrong and a different problem? Yeah, I said it in relation to our elections here in California, just recently, for example. And you don't have, but you see, this is someone that is, for Democrats like me, we are trying to run a democracy. And one of the great important things about a democracy is you fight to the end, but you have some forbearance. That if you lose, you go home and you lick your wounds, and then you try to fight another day. Donald Trump doesn't agree with that, right? Right. And that's morally reprehensible.

1:05:11Jon Favreau:Okay. Is it? What? Is it reprehensible? Look. I want to, I am mad. Is it? But this is why, but it matters, right? I speak for, I think that I represent a lot. This is a little bit like the MS Now conversation, which is the reason that I find this conversation, I think it's an extreme view to take this particular issue and make it the determinant of an assessment about who you are and what you believe. I think it's one of many things. There's lots of reprehensible things about what politicians say and do. And so I just don't think it's how I, it's not how I think about stuff where you have a kind of litmus test that this is the one thing where you say, because this or that person thinks that, says that, whatever, I'm not going to pay any attention to anything else.

1:06:03And I just, that's not how I think about it. So I'm reluctant to give these sweeping assessments of things. I disagree with what has been said about the 2020 election. Yeah, I've said that many times. I also disagree with how it was conducted. Both things can be true. Okay. So you are the son of Hungarian immigrants.

1:06:27Jon Favreau:and I think you've talked quite movingly about why your family left Hungary for the UK and ultimately for the United States. And you've also talked about what it was like to be detained because you had a problem with your passport and there's a problem with, I believe, your son's visa. Oh, yes, yes, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think people would be interested to hear sort of like why did your family leave Hungary, right? And what are some of the ways in which that is reflected in your politics? So there's three people involved, actually. My mother, my father, my stepfather, also Hungarian.

1:07:06My parents divorced when I was young. In England, my dad went back to Hungary. I really grew up with my stepfather. And so they came in different ways. My mom came, I don't remember the story now, but she was, I believe she was studying English. at university in Hungary, and then had an opportunity to go to England for a few months. I think this is right. I'll check with her after this. And then met my dad, who'd come to Hungary via Australia, where he went. He was a famous sports guy in Hungary. And he was the goalie for the national hockey team, played in the Olympics, Winter Olympics. And then when he stopped playing, I remember that there's one story that I really remember.

1:07:57I mean, he died when I was much younger as well. But I only spent like vacations with him. But I do remember him telling me that after he stopped playing, he got into business, he had a paint factory. And I just remember that going, I didn't really understand what he meant. He went on and on about how the communists took his paint factory. And he was quite a strident anti-communist and he's quite well known. So he left after 1956 when the revolution was crushed by the Soviet Union, went to Australia with his first wife, they split up, he went to England. And so they all came slightly different ways.

1:08:32I think then they met in London, working in, I think they were both working in the restaurant at Heathrow Airport. Then my stepfather grew up in a village in a rural setting in the western side of Hungary. And then his story is different as well. So he was 14 years old, and he and his brother and his classmates heard on the radio that the Russians were coming. That was the Jönnekas Orosok in Hungarian. I remember him saying that phrase. And then they just ran. They were not far from the border with Austria, and they ran. And they literally climbed barbed wire fences and whatever. And he says, I mean, again, he probably doesn't know for sure, but he says that many of them were killed in the attempt.

1:09:19getting out. And he ended up with his brother in a refugee camp in Austria. So they all had a slightly different pathway. So on immigration, you have sort of drawn, I think, a right distinction between

1:09:35Jon Favreau:illegal and legal immigration. And you've basically said some version of, and many times, that there ought to be more cooperation with ICE because the lack of cooperation, of what leads to this sort of the chaos and the targeting of people who are nonviolent offenders. Am I summarizing this correctly? Yeah, and the general kind of antagonistic, toxic brew of hostility. Yeah. So the problem I have when you say that is it would be nice if that were true, but California may be attacked by Republicans for being a sanctuary state, but the sheriffs and police still notify, ICE about removals. Yeah, Gavin makes that point.

1:10:20Right.

1:10:20Jon Favreau:And ICE can still enforce removal orders here. And there doesn't seem to be a difference between cooperative and non-cooperative states. So if you're in Florida or Texas, huge number of deportations, same as in other places, we're still hitting about something in the 70s percent of which are sort of nonviolent offenders or no convictions, right? Five percent violent. And that's true regardless of the level of cooperation. The cooperation just seems to increase the number of deportations, right? And if you accept that as true, would that change how you think about the role of California's governor?

1:10:57I think the number one thing I believe is that we just got to lower the temperature. We've got to find ways of handling this better. And I think there are examples in the past of where this was handled better. Clearly, everyone is grappling with a situation where you've had 50 years of terrible, broken immigration policy in loads of different ways. And so that's just hard. You know, you're dealing with a difficult problem, because you've got a legacy of an unaddressed problem that everyone just passed the buck for years. And so I think that it's not easy. None of it's easy. But I think that the way it's been so, you know, the confrontation and the demonization and all this rhetoric, I think it makes it even harder to deal with a hard problem.

1:11:47So my number one thing is, can we just lower the temperature a bit and sit down and try and figure out how we handle this? First of all, of course, as everyone knows, federal immigration policy, you don't affect that. The question for the governor is like, how do you respond here?

1:12:06And that's my goal. It's like, let's find a way to work together, which Gavin already says he is doing. And if you look at California's sanctuary state law, SB 54, passed in 2017, there's a whole section in there, which I've read, a long section, which lists all the different areas where you can have, at the discretion of the state, cooperation with federal immigration enforcement. In fact, California's sanctuary state law was criticized by the left for being too accommodating on that front.

1:12:37Jon Favreau:But see, but this is the thing, it doesn't really just boil down to cooperation. It's, well, what kind of immigration enforcement would you support as governor, right? Because whether the kind that doesn't, no, I don't like at all. If this is what you're getting at, just be direct about it. I really don't want to see raids into communities, into workplaces, any of that. That is not, I hate to see that. So you oppose that? Well, I don't, I, yes. Okay. I oppose it, but there's nothing I can do about it because you're not in charge of it. Well, you can decide whether to coordinate, whether to deploy state resources to coordinate in those enforcement actions, or you can do what California has done and said, we're not going to break the law, but no, we're not going to participate in these actions.

1:13:22Jon Favreau:And then that is described as a lack of cooperation, which leads to the deployment of federal agents in a big kind of sweep. Yeah. So I know Tom Homan well. I've known him for years. And his argument You can challenge it, but I'm just, you know, his argument is that we wouldn't need to do those kinds of enforcement actions if we had more direct cooperation. And it's not true, actually, that the cooperation is as Gavin would want you to have it. Because regularly in California, we see stories where that hasn't happened. where people who, and we just saw a case in the Bay Area just the other week, a brutal murder of an elderly gentleman in the community who was just the life and soul of the community's family bereft, the community's bereft by someone who everyone watching and listening would agree should not be in the country.

1:14:19An illegal immigrant who did multiple violent crimes and was let out by a judge and was in the community. That shouldn't have happened. And so I hear what they say that, Well, actually, this is all bullshit from the Trump administration because we do cooperate on the cases where people agree, which is the violent criminals. That isn't the case because you see stories regularly. There's another one just, I think, this week or last week where you see examples of that not happening in California.

1:14:46Jon Favreau:Let's say those cases are wrong, but cooperation outside of those cases. Why would the lack of agreement between California and the federal government mean you need to do enforcement actions at Home Depots and work sites and all the rest? Because they're looking for people that they should have been able to be, that they wouldn't need to look for because they would have been handed over by California state and local law enforcement. That's the argument. And so you would, would you sort of deploy state resources as governor to support enforcement operations? Because here's a problem, right? Regardless of whether you would go after a criminal.

1:15:24Jon Favreau:I wouldn't want to see them. I don't like seeing, and I would want to not have in California those kinds of operations. Correct. Absolutely. And so I would, you know, what would I actually do? I would get on the phone with Tom, who I know, and say, right, how are we going to handle this? Because I don't want to see that. Californians don't want to see that. You know that. It's obvious that Californians don't want to see that. You've got a job to do. I've got a job to do. How are we going to do this in a calm and reasonable way? That's what I would actually do. Right. And then the current policy is to pursue a level of deportations that requires going after non-criminals.

1:16:08Jon Favreau:You can't hit the numbers. You can't hit the numbers that they want to hit. But I don't know if that's still the case. I totally accept that there's been a shift over, you just, the numbers, the data's clear, that in the early period of the first, this Trump administration, the balance was mainly the kind of, the kinds of people that the vast majority of California's Americans would accept shouldn't be here. And then that shifted, and the balance has gone in favor of those who aren't in that category. But I sense that it's going back in that direction. You sense it? Yes, because of the response to what happened in Minnesota, the response to what happened in Maine.

1:16:52Jon Favreau:Well, they turned on the public temperature for sure. I don't think there is any evidence to suggest they've changed their enforcement priorities. They've certainly done less of the Christy Noem, Bovino kind of whatever, shock and awe. I'm glad that's gone. But they have not replaced that with a less draconian overall policy and goal. Again, my response would be to sit down and say, right, what's the deal here? What are you doing in California? We're the biggest state with the highest population, very large immigrant population. What's the plan? And just tell me what you're trying to do. And I'm the governor.

1:17:28I want to make sure that we don't have these scenes and we don't have this confrontation. And yeah, we don't have those kinds of raids. I don't want to see that.

1:17:43Jon Favreau:Pod Save America is brought to you by Policy Genius. It's so annoying when you learn that those little things everyone recommends you do to set yourself up for success, like meal prepping, resetting your space, or putting out your workout clothes before bed really do make life easier. A quick act of preparation can make all the difference. So before the season gets any busier, check off one to-do that can safeguard your family's future. Quickly find free life insurance quotes tailored to your family's needs with PolicyGenius. Searching for the right life insurance policy can be complicated and confusing.

1:18:11Jon Favreau:PolicyGenius makes it simple and straightforward. PolicyGenius is an online insurance marketplace that allows you to compare quotes from some of America's top insurers side-by-side for free. Their licensed team helps you get what you need fast so you can get on with your life. Easily find what you need, coverage amounts, prices, terms, no guesswork, just clarity, prioritize peace of mind, lock in your life insurance today. With Policy Genius, you can find 20-year life insurance policies starting at just$276 a year for$1 million in coverage. Head to policygenius.com slash crooked to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save.

1:18:44Jon Favreau:That's policygenius.com slash crooked.

1:18:51Jon Favreau:The Friends and Family Sale is here at Apple Vacations. Book by September 24th and save up to 50 % on all-inclusive vacations with instant savings. Whether it's a getaway with friends or a family vacation, there's always a reason to make more memories with your favorite people. Travel through August 2027 and start planning your getaway today at applevacations.com or with your trusted travel advisor. Apple Vacations, where your story starts. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try on new food and suddenly it's like, wait.

1:19:29Jon Favreau:That's the reaction a lot of people are having when they first try Kewpie mayo. It's the one with the red cap and the little baby on the bottle. You've probably seen it in the grocery store before. And if you've ever just walked past it, some people would say that's a huge mistake. Because this mayo is different. Most mayonnaise uses whole eggs. Kewpie only uses egg yolks, which gives it this rich umami flavor. It's smoother, deeper, and almost buttery. Once people try it, they start putting it on everything. Egg sandwiches, fries, burgers. Some fans even swear by dipping pizza crust in it. And once you notice it, you start seeing it everywhere.

1:20:04Jon Favreau:Chefs use it. Restaurants use it. People who really care about flavor use it. Never tried it? Grab the bottle with the red cap next time you're at the store. Put it on just about anything. Then you'll understand. Cupi, the original Japanese mayonnaise.

1:20:20Jon Favreau:So, if you were the governor, a lot of what you'd want to do, the tax break for people making under$150, is that the number? It's not a tax break. It's no state income tax. And a number of other changes. You'd have to work with the legislature. Have you thought about how you would do that? How you would approach that? Yeah, I mean, it's a huge question because there's basically two questions, which is how are you going to win? And I do appreciate, like you said, you appreciated me being here. I appreciate you having, because you're probably sitting there thinking, why am I talking to this guy?

1:20:50He's got no chance of winning. but I think that there is a shot. I know it's an uphill battle, but I think that there's a level of frustration, and I think we can do this. But the second big question is, well, what can you get done in the context of a legislature that's pretty likely to continue to have a Democrat supermajority? The first point I'd make is that I'm used to that, right? People may know me from TV or whatever, and I obviously as a candidate, but while most of my career has actually been in business, running small businesses, doing startups and whatever. I did spend some time working in the government in the UK.

1:21:27I was senior advisor to the prime minister, David Cameron. He's a conservative prime minister, but it was a coalition government. It was two parties. There's a conservative party, the Liberal Democrats. And I helped, I was part of the team that negotiated the coalition agreement. I shared an office in 10 Downing Street with my opposite number from another party, from the Liberal Democrats. And so actually, temperamentally, I think that they'll find when I get there that I'm perhaps not the caricature that they've heard about and I'm easy and constructive to work with. That's the first point. Attitudinally, I'm looking forward to working with them.

1:22:06The French call it cohabitation. You know, it's normal. It's not that unusual in other systems. The second point, in Washington, it's not unusual. You've had examples of presidents and legislatures of different parties. So it's just unusual in California. The second point is that in the primary, here in California for governor, there were many examples where some of the other, not the ones that made, not necessarily Becerra, but some of the others, we constantly were agreeing with each other. I was constantly agreeing with Matt Mahan on housing policy, for example. Katie Porter actually said in one of the debates we had that she adopted my tax plan.

1:22:49Now, just to be clear, then it was your first$100 ,000 tax-free. Now, one of the points of feedback we got in the primary was that, given how expensive everything is in California, the fact that in many counties now, the official level for being low income is$100 ,000 or higher. We raised it to 150 and reduced another, the flat rate tax above that to make the math work. But, you know, Katie Porter agreed that we've got, you know, the quickest way to get more money in people's pockets, particularly working class people who are just paying 9.3 % income tax. That's higher than the top rate in most states, is to eliminate them from state income tax altogether.

1:23:33Katie Porter agreed with that principle. And so I think that actually there will be things where we can work together. The other point is that you do run the executive branch, and it doesn't mean you can do everything, but on the regulatory front, there's a lot you can do through appointments and giving new direction to some of these agencies that are making everything so expensive and complicated in California.

1:23:54Jon Favreau:Are there any specific Newsom executive orders on, say, abortion access that you would repeal? No, there'll be no change to any of that. And you support, would you be, there's obviously the looming threat of the Trump administration trying to crack down on access to abortion, abortion care. Yeah, but it's in the California, not in California, because it's in the state constitution. I mean, that was passed by referendum, very overwhelmingly. Right, but there's all kinds of mechanisms the federal government can use to try to claim certain Medicaid funding can go towards health providers that provide abortion care or family planning.

1:24:41Jon Favreau:Would you say clearly that you will stand up to the Trump administration to protect the access to abortion in California if they try to undermine it? Yes, no, but I'm not sure. Yeah, in principle, yeah. I haven't seen the specific things you're talking about. And do you support the right of Californians to make decisions about gender-affirming care? Adults, yes. Adults. Not children, no. So you don't, if a parent and a doctor and a teenager come to a difficult decision that a transition is in their best interest, you believe the state can stop that? So I think that the most important work that's been done on this was actually in the UK, in the National Health Service, a model that Democrats, well, certainly on the left, want to see here, universal health care, taxpayer funded, Medicare for all.

1:25:36And it was the longest study, the most detailed and in-depth study. It's the Cass Review, two years plus, because there's a lot of concern about it in the UK. and Hilary Cash is this very respected doctor in the field and that report is very thorough and impressive and it says very clearly and strongly, and this is now the policy in the UK with the National Health Service, that up for children, gender dysphoria should be treated through therapy and so on, but not through irreversible surgical procedures. That's the policy now in the UK, and I think that's right. So regardless of what the sort of, that's a policy around access to state-funded care, right?

1:26:25Jon Favreau:Yes, in the UK, yes. Right. And so what I'm saying is in the United States, where we have a different sort of sense of freedom, right? In part, that's why people oppose universal health care. They don't want the government making those kinds of decisions. You would say that regardless of who's paying for it, do you believe doctors, parents, have the right to make these decisions, or can the state come in and tell them the kind of care they can't provide? Just to take an extreme example, freedom is not unconstrained. It's not a free-for-all. But there's obviously, you understand, there's a place of disagreement.

1:26:58Of course, of course. We have many policies and laws protecting children, including protecting them from things their parents might want to do to them or with them. Of course, of course. And this falls to that category for you. It does for me.

1:27:09Jon Favreau:Okay. Yes. If you were governor, would you have signed or vetoed SB 79? Oh, for housing, on transit. Because I actually don't, I can't find you having a clear position on the law. Yes. You would have signed it. I was strongly against it. I would not have signed it. And I campaigned against it. You would have vetoed it. Yeah. You don't believe in building more, in enforcing states that are, enforcing municipalities that are refusing to approve more housing at a time when we have a massive housing shortage, you would not support forcing them to do it. So just to be clear, look, we've got to build more.

1:27:48I just did a speech at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco a couple of weeks ago called A New Decade of Building. And we absolutely have to build more because we have the highest housing costs in the country, the lowest home ownership. It's an absolute crisis. But I think right now, the attitude to that, And this bill, 17, falls into exactly what we've seen. So the Turner Center in Berkeley, the real source of expertise on housing in California, this is when I, it's actually the first issue that got me involved in this whole era of politics in California. I didn't intend it to run for governor, but I could see that this was such a massive issue.

1:28:26It's the number one reason people are leaving California, the housing costs. And so I worked on a ballot initiative. This is going about four years or so now. and the components of it were to cap developer... I don't need to go into the details. The point is, although we should, because it actually gets into why housing expense. I want to answer your question first. At that time, this is like four years ago, there have been 100-plus bills passed and enacted in the previous five years trying to encourage more housing to be built. And they had barely moved the needle. Things like the ADU bill and so on, just all these things.

1:29:06Well, one of the reasons because of obstinance at the local level preventing building, which is why this law was meant to address it. Exactly, and it won't. Because it's got fundamentally the wrong approach, which is that we're trying to, because of this argument about density, I completely disagree with the density argument. I think rather than trying, I think we should be expansive and open up building in places where people actually want things to be built. And I traveled all of this state. There are many, many areas where people and communities and councils want to build housing, but they're prevented from doing so because of the density argument, which says the current development boundary is perfect and we can't go any further.

1:29:50Now, if you look at the actual numbers on that, the proportion of our land area in California that's developed at all is about 6%. In terms of where that puts us nationally, we're about sort of 20th, something like that. So we are not a, we're already pretty dense in terms of the small, the relatively small proportion of our land mass that's actually developed. There's so much space that we could use to build the housing world. I've said I want to see new towns and cities built. I'm a strong supporter of California forever, for example. Sure. And that would mean we could build on a much greater scale, much more quickly, including the kind of housing that people want, especially when they want to start and raise a family, which is single family homes.

1:30:35That's what actually the research shows people want. And therefore, this attitude of saying the only acceptable form of housing construction is apartment buildings shoved into suburban neighborhoods. I think that's very limiting. But that's not what the law does. But that's why SB 79 says.

1:30:51Jon Favreau:Well, the law doesn't ban building anywhere else. It's just part of, first of all, part of the reason— Other rules do, correct. But part of the reason there's so much pressure to expand the footprint of where we can build, and I'm not against that, is because we have so thoroughly failed to build the housing required in the places where people want to work and live. Yeah, but you say required, but like if you buy a home— The housing that demand would suggest is warranted. No, but I— By market forces. No, I understand. But I mean, if you buy a single-family home in a suburban neighborhood, you've made an investment in that particular lifestyle.

1:31:25And to be told that that's just going to be upended and you're going to have apartment buildings at the end of your street with no provision for extra parking that's going to make traffic a nightmare, that's going to completely change the character of a neighborhood. I disagree with that. So the law, right, was written to address that

1:31:42Jon Favreau:insofar as cities can make their own plan to avoid violating the kind of character of a neighborhood. No, no. 79 is very aggressive. It's like within one mile of transit, of any kind of transit thing, there's a buy right to build up to seven-story apartment building. If cities and states fail, if cities and municipalities fail to create plans, I mean, Los Angeles currently has an alternate plan, right? Right now, they've voted to do an alternate plan to build housing. Karen Bass joins me in opposing this. Of course. Doesn't that make you nervous? No, I'm great. You think you're right. You think that's great.

1:32:15I think good for her because she understands that the infrastructure, everything, but not just transportation, but utilities and so on. It's a massive expansion of the numbers of people that need to be supported by the existing infrastructure, which can't easily and quickly be adapted. Like you can just throw up an apartment building, but you can't change the whole, you know, traffic plan and utilities and sewage and all that. And so I think that there's a massive issue in California, which is the state, at the state level in Sacramento, imposing things on local communities that don't want them.

1:32:57And I disagree with that. One of the main kind of ideas that I've championed throughout my business, actually, as well as in government and in all the things, the books I've written, is the decentralization of power. I've always believed in that. And I strongly believe it in that in this case. So I completely disagree with that whole direction of policy. The RENA numbers, that's the regional housing needs assessment, the way that they're aggressively going after places that don't build enough. And the simple way I put it is instead of forcing housing into places that don't want it, let's allow housing to be built in the places that do want it.

1:33:32Jon Favreau:Who wants it as it sort of matters, right? The vast majority of people in Los Angeles have said very clearly they want lots of new housing built. They want more apartment buildings. They want more housing of all kinds, single-family, multi-unit apartments. They want all that kind of housing built. The problem, right, is that California has a bunch of onerous rules, regulations, systems. That's true. That prevent that kind of building, right? Well, just prevent any kind of building. Exactly. I mean, just the delays. So while this is one, I think, relatively small part of the story on housing, the bill you talked about, the much bigger point is that we need to make it easier to build affordably.

1:34:09And that does take us back to the ballot initiative that I tried to make happen, which then had two components. Number one is dealing with actually Matt Mahan, the mayor of San Jose who ran for governor, didn't make it into the top two. He and I totally agreed on this, which is impact fees, developer impact fees. It's like a hidden tax on housing. The Turner Center in Berkeley estimates that in many cases up to 20 % of the cost of a new home is straight up fees. These developer impact fees used to be a couple of grand. Now it's like way more than that. And we need to cap them. That's one part of it.

1:34:42Sorry, people, you know, they look at this housing thing. and say, well, it's all about the NIMBYs and the YIMBYs. It's so much more than that. Let me give you a second example, which is in terms of the CEQA process. CEQA is the California Environmental Quality Act passed in 1970 or so. Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson wrote about it in abundance. It's a massive obstacle to getting anything done in California. But one of the main reasons that that's the case is not just the act itself and the rules and process contained within it, but the fact that over the years, a private right of action has been attached to it.

1:35:18So anyone can file a lawsuit using CEQA as a pretext to block anything. 70 % of CEQA lawsuits are filed to block housing. Most of those are actually filed by unions to negotiate what they call project labor agreements in order to extract benefits like what they call skilled and trained workforce, which means union members only, prevailing wage, which is two or three times market rate wages. So there's a whole kind of system here that has, you know, over the years has built up that makes housing impossible to build affordably.

1:35:49Jon Favreau:Yes. Agreed. I don't—and it's an emergency. It's an emergency in this state. Yes, I agree. Yeah. And yet, this bill that would not stop anyone from building single-family units or new towns, which should hopefully begin to address the massive shortage that exists inside of places like Los Angeles and San Francisco, right, where we have not built enough housing to keep up with the population, you're opposing it. I don't want to force housing into places that don't want— But you keep saying that, but we do want it, right? It's a small subset. Wait, it's a small subset of people that take advantage of these processes, which you're criticizing to prevent action, right?

1:36:25Jon Favreau:You will have, right now, there's a housing development that's meant to be built in Woodland Hills, California, on a golf course that's gonna be housing, right? That's infill housing, technically. And they are suing to stop it with the help of a city council member because they're claiming it might be a habitat for mountain lions. Now, that's bullshit, right? Now, the state might have to come in and the state may have to come in to force them to do this. I think that's right because I think they are not serving the city or the state of California. Now, that's top down for sure and regrettably so.

1:36:58Jon Favreau:But to address an emergency, don't we need to have the state come in and say, hey, take in local concerns, but we need to build to prevent California from losing more people to Texas? Yeah, I agree it's an emergency, but there's so many. But I also don't think that we should completely ignore the people who live here already and violate their property rights and also the kind of lifestyle that they've invested in. And I think that we don't need to. But see, but this is where, I think that's wrong. I think it's an antagonistic attitude, which is that the only way we get housing is by sticking it to the YIMBYs.

1:37:36I'm not trying to stick it to anybody. And I just don't agree with it. I don't think it's necessary because there's so much space we could be building in California.

1:37:42Jon Favreau:But you look at what happens in a neighborhood, right, where they preserve the character of the neighborhood. And then the housing prices go up year after year after year. And slowly but surely, the middle class and working class families that used to live there are priced out. And wealthier people come in. And the buildings don't change, but the character does. Yeah, but that also happens when you do the apartment approach, where you've got gentrification through these luxury apartments that get built in working class neighborhoods. and that whole hipster gentrification process. You see it all over the world, by the way, not just California.

1:38:14That's another version of it. And that's a version of it that the people who are going to pro-forcing housing into neighborhoods agree with. And I just think that the whole conversation has just become very ideological rather than practical. And I just think there's a much simpler solution, which is to free up more of our land for building, including in the form, which is what we used to do in California when we were like the build, build, build in the suburbs of Southern California, the UC campuses, the State Water Project, all the amazing things we used to build. We can do that again. And that's why I've said a lot that I'm excited about the potential if we can just get people to buy into it of new towns, new cities, new university campuses.

1:39:02You know, we've got to be much more expansive in our attitude right now, it feels very narrow and pinched and kind of antagonistic. And I don't think it's necessary to do it like that. And by the way, fine.

1:39:15Jon Favreau:But you understand that building those new developments also puts strain on highways and resources, right? Build new ones. It's crazy to say we can't. I really am. Abundance is what we should be going for. But in the same way that we have to improve our infrastructure inside of the cities. Yes, but it's much easier in a greenfield site. It's easier, quicker. Look, we can... Just like you're doing in Texas. I mean, that's what they're doing in Texas. Building, there is a lot of... Which is why everyone's moving to Texas. There is a lot of... Well, yes, there's a lot of reasons people are moving to Texas, which I would agree with you on.

1:39:44Jon Favreau:But a lot of times when you build these single... Build a community and highways and roads, the tax base ultimately cannot support the long-term maintenance of these kind of less dense areas. That's just a fact of what happens in some of these sort of sprawling communities. A lot of time in, you know, parts of San Diego County, Orange County, you know, Inland Empire, where that kind of development has worked fine. I'm just, there are trade-offs that go along with this. That's all. All right. You said voters shouldn't decide the election based on who they hate in Washington. Okay. One role of the governor is filling Senate vacancies.

1:40:23Jon Favreau:Oh, my goodness. So Adam Schiff is frog march to Guantanamo. Yes. There's an unexpected vacancy in the Senate. would you pledge to nominate a Democrat given that the two seats currently held were voted for? You would. I pledge to nominate a Democrat if there's a vacancy. I mean, I just think you've got to honor the vote that people took. You said you're friends with half of Trump's cabinet. Which half? Okay, that's a form of speech. I don't know. How many in the cabinet? I don't know. Maybe half. I don't know. So I can tell you the names, right? So Brooke Rollins, the Ag Secretary. Pete Hexer, I know.

1:41:00obviously from, you know, we were colleagues at Fox, Bobby Kennedy, Doug Burgum. Tulsi's no longer, was she in the cabin? I don't know if that counted.

1:41:07Jon Favreau:Is D &I technically cabin? Anyway, she's not there anymore. Who else? I don't know. I'm hearing from a producer there's 16 members of the cabin. Okay, so maybe half is just slightly. Anyway, the point I'm making is that, oh, Sean Duffy, transportation, big role for us. I guess it's a Fox News thing. You had a lot of friends there. A couple of them were actually at Fox News And then I'm just trying to think probably the people I, I mean, Bobby Kennedy I've gotten to know since I left Fox. But some of them I probably would have met there and interviewing them and that kind of thing. You are? Tulsi Gabbard.

1:41:43Actually, I'll tell you when I met Tulsi was when I ran my startup CrowdPak, which was a platform for trying to get big money out of politics. Great job, by the way. I'm kidding. I know. Exactly. Well, you know, you've got to try these things. And we met, it was at a conference in New Orleans, a kind of, I can't remember what it's called, it was great. Jennifer Lawrence was the keynote speaker. It was a very, and I met Tulsi and who else? Oh, Mike Gallagher. They had a Democrat and a Republican talking about the problem of money and politics. Yeah, so we go back quite a long way. Have you talked to RFK about vaccines?

1:42:26Not about vaccines, no. you would support, encourage Californians to get vaccinated? Yeah, I think, I mean, Jay Bhattacharya is a very good friend of mine, NIH director, and I trust what he says about this. And that's basically my position. I have a lot of confidence in his approach. I mean, I really, you know, work, for example, on the COVID vaccine, you know, I was very struck by what he said about that, which seems to be a very common sense position. And so, yeah. I support that. Favorite sandwiches in California? Oh.

1:43:08Well, the thing that comes to mind, because I just had some really good ones lately, the Vietnamese. I was in Little Saigon in San Jose, and it was just unbelievably good. I did an amazing event there. It was fun. Very crazy event. It was great. And then we had lunch afterwards. And I do love them. I love Barmé and I've always loved them. But that was particularly good and that's the one that comes to mind.

1:43:33Jon Favreau:So you talked about how you want to sort of change people's caricature of you. Well, I don't know about I want to change. I'm just saying I think they'll find that I'm not that. I have to say, it was interesting watching the way you've been campaigning versus the way you were as a host. And I'm wondering if your caricature of Democrats has changed based on what it's been like in California, campaigning sort of outside of a cable news environment. So the thing I always, I mean, it's not the whole answer, but what I think of when you say that is that, and I say this all the time, because I got a lot of people say, what is this Fox News thing?

1:44:15You know, we remember you as something completely different when you're in the UK. You were the one that tried to, you know, make the Conservative Party, you know. I mean, I'd never use this term, actually, but kind of modernize it and so on. And, you know, I wrote a book in 2015 called More Human, Designing a World Where People Come First. Actually, the big theme of that is decentralizing power and so on. And I would always say, look, I've never said anything on my Fox News show that I didn't believe or don't believe. But I didn't say everything I believe. Right. And so that's how I saw that.

1:44:53It's a particular job. and I think that, you know, to be fair, I would be pretty, I don't, I want to say, it's not true to say even-handed, but I would attack Republicans on that show. I had a segment on that show called Swamp Watch, which was really, you know, going after corruption and so on. I got a huge amount of blowback when I would go after Republicans, which I did regularly, you know, and prominent ones, you know, Ted Cruz or Kevin McCarthy or whatever. and so I think that I don't want to talk about anyone else but I definitely made an effort to not be tribal what do you mean about Democrats though?

1:45:34Jon Favreau:I think there is something about Fox News which I think exists in many ways to assuage uncomfortable thoughts out of people's minds that's I think part of its function and that is especially important when it comes to sincere objections to Donald Trump, which is where we started. We can end here. When you were talking about Trump's first impeachment, you said of Democrats, they hate the president. They hate his supporters. They hate how they think. They hate their faith. They even hate their food. They hate the fact that this president is delivering concrete results and they're terrified that they can't beat him.

1:46:14Jon Favreau:Now, I'm a Democrat. I think my view on his first impeachment is sincerely held in that it was deserved. that even right now he should be impeached and removed for a set of high crimes and misdemeanors, corruption, abuse of office. That is a sincerely held view. I certainly don't hate people's food and religion. In fact, I was just at the Minnesota State Fair, and I eat like a Republican. But I do think it matters because I think what that is is trying to tell people that supporting Donald Trump doesn't say anything bad about you, that these people don't really believe these moral critiques. And then you embrace someone immoral.

1:46:53Jon Favreau:And you're asking us to say, oh, don't let that bother you. But it's something fundamentally broken about a politics that can embrace someone as unfit as Donald Trump. And so do you appreciate that a lot of Democrats in this state genuinely believe he's a threat to this country and you would be representing them? Yeah, I know because we talk about it. I hear it very clearly. And I disagree with that. Um, like I said, there's many examples, um, starting with 2020, but you know, like all the time, um, I'm seeing things that, and I think about it very narrowly now in terms of California where I don't agree with that.

1:47:32I really hate that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you know, I'd argue strongly against that if I were there now, everything from UC funding to, I don't know, um, this, the business with Yosemite, I mean, I haven't looked into it, but seems pretty bad to me. So I think that on a case-by-case basis, I'm very happy to say that I wouldn't be at all, you know, reluctant to disagree and challenge them. I hear what you're saying on that. I think what I was channeling there is a very strong sense that there really was, and it was captured by Hillary's deplorables comment. I mean, that was a real clarifying moment, I think, for a lot of people.

1:48:17And I don't want to suggest that it was representative of every Democrat. Of course I don't. But, you know, there was something to that that was visceral. And I feel like that is what a lot of Republicans feel. They feel looked down on. They really do. And they feel looked down on partly because of who they are. and all those things I listed, the faith and the food and whatever. And you see it in some of the commentary that people make. And I don't know, you'll say which examples. I mean, I'm just 10 years now.

1:48:51Jon Favreau:No, no, but I would say, you know, sure, she said deplorables. Dumb thing to say. Apologize for it. We now had a decade of Donald Trump saying some of the most heinous, vicious things, not just about politicians, but about California, about our people, about a place we love, that you're trying to run. And I appreciate you trying to strike this balance, okay? But it doesn't seem to be as much what you did. I get why you'd be doing it while running to lead California, but for a lot of us, it's not a balancing question. It's a moral question. I understand that. But I guess I've done a lot of different things in my career.

1:49:36I left Oxford in 1990, 36 years. I actually added it up because when you run for office, I'd never run for office before, you get three words to describe yourself on the ballot. So I thought, okay, I've done different things. I've taught at Stanford, done a startup, run restaurants, written books, been on TV, worked in the government, a bunch of different things. So I actually added it up. Most of my career has been in business, in the private sector, most of those years, starting and running my own businesses. However, interspersed in that 36-year period, I've been in and around politics and the media a lot.

1:50:11And I guess what, including my first job, my first real job was project manager for a construction company. But my first job out of college was, I took a gap year and did that, but was working at the Conservative Party. I've been around a long time in and around politics. And I guess I've seen a lot of things that you could say are reprehensible. I don't think that anything I've seen is uniquely bad and I think you know things just you know things seem from in the moment to have particular kind of you know significance attached to them and I think increasingly with everything's amped up in a way it wasn't before because of social media but then things move on and you're on to the next thing I remember like for example back Back in the day in Europe, George W.

1:51:03Bush was unbelievably unpopular in Europe. Everyone now thinks, oh, Trump, and it's so embarrassing because everyone in Europe thinks we're so, you know, you go there and everyone's talking about Trump and how could you elect Trump. That was exactly the same with George W. Bush. And so I just think that I tend to not get, I don't know, I just try and focus on the stuff that you can control and things that are practical. Honestly, that's truly how I see it. So I don't know. I mean, I try not to get amped up about stuff.

1:51:36Jon Favreau:Well, that's all I do. Steve Hilton, good talking to you. Thank you for coming in. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. It was good conversation. Good luck on the campaign trail. Thank you. That's our show for today. Thanks to Steve Hilton for coming on. Field correspondent Tommy Vitor will be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with Abdul El-Sayed. He was in Michigan today. Tommy obviously Abdul as well but Tommy was in Michigan and he'll also give us an update on how things are feeling on the ground there with just two months until election day have a good weekend bye everyone Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production our show is produced by Austin Fisher Saul Rubin McKenna Roberts and Farah Safari with Reed Cherlin Elijah Cohn and Adrian Hill our team includes Matt DeGroat Ben Hethcote Jordan Cantor Charlotte Landis David Tolles Mia Kelman Ryan Young and Naomi Sengel our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East

1:52:50Jon Favreau:Apple Vacations Story starts. Some people like working twice as hard just to stay right where they are. And in Ohio, we really don't get it. Because to us, owning a home in your 30s, working in tech without the traffic, and still being able to make it to your kid's soccer game sounds pretty good. In fact, Ohio is the second most affordable state to buy a home. Your move. Learn more at yourmoveohio.com.

1:53:27Find the vacation you're looking for in Missouri. Whether you're searching for this, wanting something like this. Oh, that's cute. Maybe up for something like this.

1:53:39Jon Favreau:Or just really, really need something more like this. You'll find the vacation you want in Missouri. Missouri, it's the getaway that gets... You. Plan your fun at visitmo.com.