Gavin Newsom Is Finally Comfortable with Himself

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20:27Tommy Vietor:Let's talk about the book. You've been saying that writing this book made you realize that for most of your life, you were trying to be someone you're not. Who were you trying to be?

20:40Gavin Newsom:I don't know.

20:43Gavin Newsom:Oscar Wilde says the first duty in life is to strike a pose. the second duty no one knows and I feel like I'm in that second phase you know the first phase I struck a pose I put a mask on and my face was growing into it in some respects you know I quite literally as a kid I write about putting on a suit you know I try to put on this armor you know as a kid that struggled in school it's a pretty severe learning disability that still marks who I am today. A lot of my anxieties, my insecurities. But I was also marked by those moments that I never fully understood until I wrote the book and learned about them in a way that I never understood.

21:26Gavin Newsom:I'll give you an important point of that. My mom was 19 when she was pregnant with me. And a few years later, she was on her own with two kids. My father, for reasons neither of them explained, left just a few years after the birth of my sister who's here tonight. And I didn't understand it until I learned about it, an oral history that he had done that none of us knew about at the Bancroft Library. And someone said, when I was asking about my father, and do you guys know why they got divorced? They never talked about it. They said, well, did you hear the interview he did in the Bancroft Library?

22:02Gavin Newsom:So he said it to a stranger. He never told us. And he said that he, and there's reason that I'm telling this story. He lost an election for county supervisor, turned around the next year, ran for state senate, lost both races. And in the interview, he said he was broke and broken. And he had a breakdown and just had to get the hell out of there. And he left. And he went up to Lake Tahoe region. And for years and years and years, not only did I not understand that, I also never understood why my mom was so insistent that I never get into politics. And up until her nine days, she's like, you need to run, get out of this.

22:47Gavin Newsom:And by the way, when that recall against me, you know, qualified, she spoke very loud to me even though she passed away in that moment. But it makes sense now. Here she was coming from no wealth, no money, no privilege, got married to a guy who was 32 years old, scandal. at 19 looking for that mentorship, looking for that stability and support. And here he is, he takes off. Not because he was a bad guy, but he didn't know how to be a good husband. And he didn't know how to be a good father in those early years. And so here's my mom, just hard work, single mom. And by the way, single moms. I mean, just mad respect for all those single moms out there.

23:31Gavin Newsom:Honestly, like I didn't, and I didn't know I, I, my mom died 20 years ago. I'd never told her, thank you. I didn't. That young man in a hurry with that mask on was just me, me, me. You know, I'm just running, running, just hustling, just trying to, you know, I'm grinding away. And here she was working two, three jobs. And by the way, when I say two, three jobs, I describe every single damn one of them. Part-time bookkeeper, part, you know, working part-time in a, you know, department store, working for aid to adoption of special kids, kids with intellectual and physical disabilities, working as a waitress at Ramona's restaurant, and just grinding grit.

24:05Gavin Newsom:We had roommates. We had people literally, I walk in, my mom's living in the living room because she left her bedroom because she's renting out. She's just trying to pay the damn rent. And so what this book is I'm paying homage to her, to thank her for her sacrifice. And teaching me resilience, man, teaching me grit. And in the process of doing this, also teaching me to let go, that it's okay. You know, take the mask off, just be yourself. And so this book was cathartic. It's not a sanitized politician's book, man. It's not.

24:46Tommy Vietor:I hope that's not. I've read plenty of those. Yeah, I appreciate those.

24:50Gavin Newsom:And I try to scrutinize and I kick the tires and I went deeper and I questioned my own relationship to, you know, my own participation and my own image of that slick guy and all the whole thing. I mean, I get it. I get it. I'm not naive about that. And so this was my opportunity to, you know, tell a different story and also tell the story that my mom and dad deserved. So look, as you were saying, you clearly have a complicated relationship with your father.

25:19Jon Favreau:I can tell reading the book and in this conversation that you revere your mother and all that she did for you and all the sacrifice. But I was struck by a comment made to you, I believe by your aunt Cindy, who said... Who's by the way here tonight, so let's be careful. She's a star in this book. Fascinating person. I'd love to meet Cindy. But no, I think she said to you that your parents' inattention to your dyslexia as a boy was abuse. And that was sort of a jarring thing to read. And I was wondering how it felt to you to hear that and whether you agreed. You know, I was, and some of you may know this,

26:00Gavin Newsom:most of you probably don't or won't believe it, I can't read speeches. You'll never see me, someone hands me a speech and I start to read it. I could do a teleprompter and it just takes dozens and dozens of hours for dozens of minutes. And it's hard just sort of focusing on that written word, but allow spatially, I'm able to just, you know, stare at the screen and I'm able to do it. And that's, you know, my entire life, I felt dumb, you know, in the back of the classroom, uh, you're struggling through school. And by the way, you know, it wasn't just me struggling. And this, again, part of the process of writing the book, I can't even imagine what it's like to be a mother, a single mom, trying to read your kids, trying to explain it's okay.

26:43Gavin Newsom:I mean, my mom said something that I'll never forget. I really was angry about it. And I wrote about it in the book. She said, in a fit of frustration with me, she said, it's okay to be average. And it's like, damn. And I honestly, for years and years, I held a lot of resentment around that until again, in the process of writing this over the last five years, I realized she was, she just was saying, it's okay to just be you. You don't have to be someone you're not. You don't have to put that mask on. And so, you know, my, my aunt saw it up close. She saw the struggle that my mom had, she saw me running out of classrooms, running away from, you know, just constantly running and searching and struggling.

27:23Gavin Newsom:And, you know, I'm just, I can't sugarcoat it. And anyone that's got a learning disability, I think you can appreciate this, but same time, you also start developing these superpowers because you start overcompensating for the things you can't do as well as everybody else and that has been the gift and the ability to you know sort of absorb and create and look outside the lines and paint outside the lines take risks you have to take risks learn from mistakes have a resiliency all those things are also part of the journey of having a learning disability and having a learning difference and so I'm I'm here because of it despite some of those early these scars that mark those moments in the book.

28:03Tommy Vietor:I was going to ask one thought I had when you were talking about, when you were writing about dyslexia is how does it affect you writing? Like how did that, was it a challenge writing the book?

28:12Gavin Newsom:Well, the worst part was doing the audio of the book. I mean, whoever did the editor, they deserve a pay raise and hugs. You can't pay them enough, Penguin. They did it. It took like, I don't know, 20, 30 hours to do the audio reading the book. and reading about your own dyslexia as you're saying you can't read. Going through 25 times that same sentence. So, no, it's just an interesting, you know, the writing process is difficult, but the opportunity to work with a writer, Mark Erick's, was how I was able to. That's why this was a five-year process of writing this book and constantly editing and iterating and stress testing.

28:58Gavin Newsom:and we were joking backstage, writing about your family when most of your family's alive, that's not so easy. You better get it right because you got to go to Thanksgiving dinner and explain why the story is this, not what you're all saying the story was. Here's the real story. And so this was, yeah, it's an imprecise art writing, particularly a memoir.

29:23Tommy Vietor:So you didn't grow up wealthy, but your family's close relationship with the Gettys put you in proximity, as you write about, to obscene wealth. How did that shape your view of wealth, extreme wealth, as you got into politics and sort of how you look at the world right now?

29:46Gavin Newsom:Well, it certainly shapes the way I look at the world right now. I'm with the single moms in terms of you know where that where the fundamental decision points are in that respect But it was really interesting. I you know my father grew up one of his best best friend is My dad described and his best best friend describes Gordon Getty They grew up together in high school and became just best friends and so much of their lives cross paths My dad, godfather of a number of the Getty kids, and their travails, their triumphs. My dad's godson was tragically kidnapped in a very famous kidnapping where his ear was cut off.

30:28Gavin Newsom:And my father marks so much of my early memories. In fact, a little cute story. Paul, Jr., was his name. He came back from the kidnapping. And his godfather, my dad, wanted to drive him. and his two kids we were visiting down at Chestnut Street in the Marina District. And there's a story that I tell my sister and I in the back of the car, relatively young age, and my dad just pleaded with us, whatever you do, don't talk about Paul's ear. Just whatever you do. And within a few minutes of Paul getting in the front seat, and we're driving along, my dad's driving, and I'm looking at my sister Hillary.

31:09Tommy Vietor:I'm like, you know, shh.

31:10Gavin Newsom:and my sister just couldn't help herself. She's staring and she goes, Paul, how many ears do you have? I'm like, oh God. And luckily Paul had a great sense of humor, but it really marks my first memories of the family. And again, some of the tragedy, not just the tribe. And these are still my days. Some of my closest friends are members of that family, but I never was a member of the family. and there's a scene in the book this crazy and there's some wonderful stories in here and it's really honestly worth taking a look some that are just rather ridiculous including a trip to Spain that I took and King Juan one of those trips and I'll never forget all these fancy people

31:58Tommy Vietor:I was a kid, I was in high school

32:01Gavin Newsom:I'm thinking I'm all that young man in a hurry in his little suit thinking he's Pierce Brosnan from Remington Steel. Like actually, literally. And just discovered hair gel. That's a whole nother chapter in the book. Forgive me. And I'm with Ann and Gordon's four kids on this trip, and relatively the same age, and the Getty boys. People are, oh, it's wonderful to meet all of you. Which one are you? I'll never forget, which one are you with such pride? And I said, well, my name's Gavin Newsom. She goes, which one is that? I said, Newsom. And she literally immediately turns. Go away, young man. And it was such an imposter moment.

32:55Gavin Newsom:Like you knew your status. You knew your standing. And so that was my relationship to that. You know, I walked into those doors, but I walked back home into my mom's arms. And I'll never forget all those trips. Once a year, we would go on these amazing trips with my father and the family, but I'd always come back home. And when my mom opened the door, she was not on those trips. She would go invariably, she'd go, welcome back. I hope you had a wonderful time. Good night. and literally never talk about it again. And that was the reality. And so, you know, it just, it shapes, you know, it shapes a consciousness of wealth, but in different layers, in a different understanding.

33:46Gavin Newsom:The proximity to it, the relationship to it, but never absorbing it. My father, when he passed away, he gave us a second mortgage and a lot of beautiful books in a small town in Dutch Flat, California in Placer County. So even his relationship, it never created the abundance that so many people, I think, believe in terms of my life and the perception of remarkable privilege, plenty of privilege, plenty of doors that were open. I'm not naive about that. But again, a very different reality than those many believe.

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35:38Jon Favreau:Speaking of extreme wealth, I mean, you knew a lot of the big luminaries in tech when they were broke, right? I mean, you write about Steve Jobs showing you the first iPhone at a party.

35:51Gavin Newsom:You were like, we, wow. Sergey Brin was there.

35:53Jon Favreau:I think you said Elon Musk gave you a ride into the set of current TV in the first Tesla.

36:00Gavin Newsom:Yeah, the first Tesla.

36:01Jon Favreau:So I know I've heard you say, and I agree, that like tech writ large, there hasn't been as big of a metamorphosis as people might think, given where some of the CEOs are. But it does seem like there was an inflection point, maybe around COVID, maybe around Trump's election or re-election that radicalized, changed some of them or made them speak out. Elon Musk obviously being the number one example.

36:24Gavin Newsom:Do you have a theory? Not only a theory, actually, interestingly, that's part of the book that we're not publishing. And I write about it in detail, particularly Elon's relationship to me and the state and stories around how he got us ventilators. She never did. And how that breakdown started occurring, I started seeing there was libertarian tendencies, but we saw something that came out the other side very very different you know for a lot of people not just some of these more well-known tech luminaries and it's been hard to see yeah uh in every way shape or form because i write about those early days you know kara swisher she wrote an amazing book in this space and kara i were talking about it the other day in san francisco um and comparing notes you know to the old days and it was do no harm back then there was a sense of idealism and we were connecting the world.

37:17Gavin Newsom:And San Francisco was in the center of that entire universe. I remember doing Uber day and Yelp day and Twitter day. And it was like a big deal. And the CEOs would show up and I got a t-shirt. And I was like the first guy on Twitter. And I was like, you could go back to my first tweet. I'm jogging in the marina. I didn't know, what does this even mean it's a coffee wow this is amazing 10 followers and you know and you know and it was when larry and sergey were talking about we need to do free wi-fi in san francisco and and and so it's it's just so radically different and it feels so much darker because it is today and that darkness came on an inaugural you know when i saw all those guys up there and you know and it wasn't just those guys.

38:04Gavin Newsom:You know, I joke about that Patriot site and the knee pads. You know, the good news is we have new ones in because the last, they're the new Trump signature series knee pads because the last ones sold out just like many of the tech CEOs, just like the lawyers, just like the universities, just like the law firms, just like so many members of the media have been selling out this country, our republic. And so, you know, we got to call that out. And we got to call them out. And that's why... And that's why...

38:45Tommy Vietor:Okay. Yeah. Anyway. Alright. We're going to continue the conversation. Let's please let the governor talk. This is... We're going to have a conversation up here about the book. That's what we're here for. So, Governor, continue please.

39:02So look, I think it goes to the zeitgeist of this moment and the moment all of us

39:11Gavin Newsom:are feeling the anxiety, the stress, you know, and I, and I think so much without, you know, getting into the last few years. I mean, I think, you know, it's been the last 10 years since Trump came down the escalator. And just this stacking of stress that's reflected in, I signed the first bill banning private prisons, including CoreCivic in California. So that was legislation I advanced. I signed with respect. And I don't know that there's many. I take a backseat to no one being a fierce opponent to what's happening on American streets. It happened here first in the state of California. We saw 4 ,000 of our National Guard troops here in Los Angeles, federalized, 700 active-duty Marines, were not sent overseas.

39:58Gavin Newsom:They were sent to the second largest city in the United States of America. What did we say last June? We said it was a preview of things to come. You saw exactly that happen in D.C. You saw it happen in Chicago. You saw it happen in Minnesota. But you also saw the steel in the spines of Minnesotans that stood up in the retreat of Trump and Trumpism, which should give us pause to reflect on some optimism. that we can defeat these guys. He's in retreat. And so I appreciate the advocacy. I appreciate people standing up. All of us have that responsibility. All of us have the role to play. But we are on edge.

40:34Gavin Newsom:Communities are on edge. You know, when we launched that Prop 50 campaign, Little Tokyo, you know, the Democracy Center, people said, did you see the masked men out front? I'm like, come on, there aren't masked men. We literally went around the side. There were folks in masks. We didn't know who the hell they were. They weren't marked with any representation. And then this guy dressed up honestly like he came off a set in Burbank in 1930s garb. Literally with a Himmler haircut. Guy named Bovino. Gray Bovino. And we said at the time that was a preview of things to come. so I appreciate the relationship to this moment is shaped by so many moments we have and have had here in the state of California but it's also marked with the moment of resolve and conviction and and so I I'm here you know in the relationship to my truth and my past you know this is not a story about perfection.

41:43Gavin Newsom:It's a story about perseverance. That perseverance of a mom who, you know, as a young child was thrown against a fireplace by her father who put a gun to her head. That same grandfather of mine, her father, that spent years as a prisoner of war after the march and Corregidor and how he came back a different person, ultimately took his life. How my mom took her life in a moment of her own despair because of her own pain, because she was struggling for the second time with breast cancer and she just couldn't take it. And at a time when it was illegal to do assisted suicide and she found a doctor who had the courage to give up, you know, he was risking his license in the relationship to that moment and those moments you never get again and how precious this all is.

42:44Gavin Newsom:And so I hope we're all standing, including those that are speaking. I appreciate them, that context. We're all standing in this moment that we all have agency and that we're not bystanders in the world. And I think that's my history. My father's fierce advocates. He was an environmental warrior. I mean, we, we, our first pet, this is hardly relatable. This is a weird pet. Yeah. This is not on your bingo card. Our first pet was an otter. Yeah. What does the otter eat?

43:19Jon Favreau:Your fingers and toes and anything he sees in the house. This jumped out at me in the book. I literally wrote down, you had a fucking pet otter growing up question mark and you eventually gave it away right did you have to did you have to

43:33Gavin Newsom:we had to give it away because he bit the mailman and my mom that's fair this was the first act of resistance in my home my mom said it's either the otter or you dad you know to my my father but i say that to make a point by the way his name was potter the otter uh and it's a good name Yeah, why not? But it marks my father just as a fierce, you know, environmental warrior and environmental justice and, you know, racial justice, economic justice. He was a Sars-Schreiber Democrat. He was a Bobby Kenney Democrat. He was an activist judge on the California Court of Appeals. And he marks my sense of idealism and daring, but that grit, that hard work and the energy of my mom.

44:17Gavin Newsom:And it's a combination of all those things. And it's a combination that has allowed me to get through a recall. It's a combination that allows me to wake up every day and read another true social and, you know, try to sort of, you know, mark a relationship to this moment to do better, to do more and recognize that we have to do better and more because people are suffering, people are struggling. And we all have to raise the bar of expectations and accountability and self-reflection. And so this is a book about self-reflection. It's a book about taking a deep breath, letting go, and just being yourself and putting it out there.

44:52Gavin Newsom:And I hope people you've seen with me, you know, I'm willing to go out there on a limb. I'm putting a mirror up to Trump and Trumpism. I don't, check out my social media, you know, go to that Patriot store and, you know, and I'm in the arena, man, and I'm not perfect. And I know you want more and better. I get it. And I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm not trying to be any more ghost, your question. Someone I'm not. And I just, I'm who I am. And you know, you don't, you don't have to like the book. I can't, I can't control the third thing. I can, you know, it's not, I can only control what I can control.

45:30And, and I, it's, it's what I learned in this process.

45:35Gavin Newsom:And, and that's why this, this is why it's been a really remarkable gift to, to be able to tell my story and to be able are dedicated to those that will carry on this story and that's my precious four kids to dutch brooklyn and hunter and uh and montana and to my extraordinary wife uh who's also here with me tonight as you know from the introduction and and to make sure i don't screw that up because at the end of the day you know we could talk about our resume values no one gives a damn about those it's your eulogy and it's that relationship to your truth it's your relationship to others and it's your relationship to the world we're trying to build and how we can, you know, be fierce advocates for each other.

46:21Tommy Vietor:Well, speaking of that world, I want to sort of talk about something in attention in politics that I think about a lot that I think you have dealt with. Against the best wishes of your mother, you did go into politics, you become mayor of San Francisco, and when you're mayor, when you were mayor, you write about this, you went against the law, the California Constitution, the Democratic Party, most Americans.

46:48Gavin Newsom:Not to start with the law, but keep going.

46:49Tommy Vietor:Even with Californians, when you allowed the first same-sex marriage to take place in San Francisco.

47:01Gavin Newsom:No one was applauding back then, I assure you. Well, yeah. They weren't.

47:06Tommy Vietor:I think, you know, reading it, you get the idea of sort of the politics and sort of like the title wave of public opinion that you were up against then. And you said, and you wrote in the book, that the reason you did it is because simply it was the right thing to do, which is refreshing. And you also called the sort of go it slow, I think you said admonition, the mother's milk of democratic politics. And there is a lot of go slow admonition out there. But, you know, we also live through elections. You've lived through many elections. After this last election in 2024, we've all been going through this process.

47:47Tommy Vietor:What went wrong? And, you know, and you recently said, you know, Democrats need to spend less time on, you know, identity politics and pronouns and more on tabletop issues. and um but the question is because you've now you've been on both sides of this like how do you square those two potentially contradictory ideas yeah i don't know that they are um look my

48:12Gavin Newsom:why is to stand up for ideals and strike out against injustice and i don't come to that flippantly i've really absorbed that stand up for ideals strike out against injustice and if i'm on the fence on a bill or a fence on a personal decision or a professional, even business decision. That's where the default is. And that's reflected in marriage equality in 2004. Remember, in 2004, we were just finishing up the debate around domestic partnerships. We weren't even into separate is equal, which was civil unions back then. And that's where, by the way, a lot of my family was you know old Irish Catholic family the west side you get my drift to San Francisco the church the Irish Catholic Church where my dad was and I describe in the book this scene where he kind of had an intervention with his my uncle Brennan his brother and this fierce warrior for justice Joe Kachette one of our state's countries great lawyers and Kachette they had an intervention the night before I was gonna move forward with one marriage and there's a whole nother story there.

49:19Gavin Newsom:And they're like, why are you doing this? You just got elected. Like, things are good. You're relatively young. You were the youngest mayor in the 100 years. You know, you got plenty of time. You don't need to do this. No one asks you to do this. Folks don't want you to do this. We don't want you to do this. And I really got into it and I couldn't, they started really challenging me and I couldn't answer. And in a fit of frustration, that's when I said, I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do and it wasn't I wasn't trying to win an argument I was exacerbated and I was like it's the right thing and I'll never forget Joe looked at my dad and my uncle and he said boys it's the right thing to do and that was the end of it next morning I married Phyllis Lyon and Del Martin they've been together 47 years and you know 4 ,000 4 ,035 other couples from 46 states and six countries got married in what we refer to in San Francisco, not as the summer of love, but the winter of love.

50:24Gavin Newsom:But there wasn't a lot of love, to your point I was getting from the Democratic Party. You know, we had the convention later that year, and you know, I won't name names, but folks were like, you really should focus on homelessness in San Francisco. You don't have to go. They're like, you really don't have to. Certainly, you're not going to be speaking. See, you really don't have to show up. And the hard part was a lot of the folks that showed up for me on election night who all universally gave me the same advice. It's the advice we all get. Young man, just do what you think is right. Those same folks were out there saying, what the fuck do you think you're doing?

51:05And there were folks that ultimately blamed me, and this is the serious part of your question,

51:10Gavin Newsom:and this is what i back to scrutinize not sanitize for the election outcome too much too soon too fast you know i can wax on about letters from birmingham jail which i did which i reread or maybe read for the first time they meant something very different it's always the right time to do the right thing king said and and so fast forward fast forward to the conversations we're all having today and what we need to do to get back into power. And so it's a legitimate question. So you have the tactics, the electoral question, and then you have the policymaking question. You know, how, and I just think the Democratic Party needs to be a little, and forgive this word, ruthless about winning.

52:02Gavin Newsom:We just have to be. And so that's the second part of your question. you know we're we're just trying to win arguments right after right after Donald Trump called Greg Abbott and said he was quote-unquote entitled to five seats because he knows he's going to get slacked in the midterm elections he knows he's going to lose so he's trying to rig the election that's one of 10 things he's doing we could talk about the other nine is doing mid-decade

52:31Tommy Vietor:redistricting I imagine he thought and frankly I may have even thought our reaction would be

52:37Gavin Newsom:maybe like to call you guys up, see if you can help maybe draft an op-ed that we can place in the New York Times. Wow. To try to win an argument, you know, gosh, darn it, this is so wrong. And, you know, and we responded very differently. We said, look, we got to fight fire with fire. We're going to lose this country. We're going to lose our republic. And so I just think at the core, At the core, my humble belief, guys, is at the core of our party problem, it's my humble belief, is strength. We've got to be stronger in our convictions, our courage. We've got to start to dominate the narrative again.

53:22Gavin Newsom:We've got to win not just the argument, but we've got to address the attention deficit that we have. There's an asymmetry. These guys have propaganda networks. It's Pravda. It's primetime lineup. I mean, my gosh, Laura Ingraham is in business with Trump Jr. That's happening in the United States of America. I mean, it's Pravda. You know, listening to Hannity and these guys and Murdoch Inc. It's surround sound 24-7. They're flooding the zone. Donald Trump understands this. So we can no longer be conventional in our politics is ultimately what I'm arguing for.

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55:43Tommy Vietor:So the line that stuck out to Tommy was about the otter. For me, for me, it was this line. You write this about becoming a father, quote, I could count on one hand the times I actually changed a diaper. You have four children, sir. This was the first child. How did you pull that off?

56:03Gavin Newsom:You know, this was the edit my wife made to the book. I don't think, Jim, it's that bad. But like I said, I was scrutinizing, not sanitizing. This young man in hurry was out and about. You know, as mayor of San Francisco, I was showing up at events, and that was a pattern interrupt, you know, in psychology. We talk about scratching the record for those old enough. to know what her record is. And, you know, a pattern interrupt where Jen's like, get your shit together. And there were a number of those pattern interrupts that I write honestly about. Look, one of the things that I imagine, you know, Jen's here, got to be careful, that she was wondering when she married me, like, what, you know, what kind of husband are you going to be?

56:47Gavin Newsom:And then shortly after, truly, what kind of dad are you going to be? Are you going to be your dad? You know, she loved my father. My father was present in my life later on, but she was also deeply aware he wasn't when we were growing up. And that stress test came home in this beautiful bundle of joy, Montana, our firstborn, Montana Tessa, who wasn't there, my mom, Siebel Newsome. and and I didn't know until that moment that's and you guys have had this right you don't know you can intellectualize it all day but I had something that I'm not sure my dad ever had and I boy dad you missed it I had this thing that went from here and it just burst in here and it was like this baritone this deep like oh whoa this light this this sort of like oh my god to truly understand love at a different level.

57:49That said, I didn't necessarily love changing diapers.

57:54Gavin Newsom:And Jen, who's a fierce advocate, has written and done all kinds of documentaries, one called Fair Play, which is about partnership in the household. She kind of reminded me, you got to get your shit together. You got to step up your game. And so that was marked for my first daughter's diapers. I made up for it, sir, John, with all the other kids, and continue to work harder to make up for equal time and imperative, though equal may be illusory. I'm still working on that.

58:33Jon Favreau:One other thing that jumped out at me in the book is you talk about election night, you get elected governor, you wake up the next day, you walk out of the hotel room, and there's two California State Patrolmen who then become your ubiquitous part of your life, your security detail. And you're then followed by staff everywhere you go. And you lose your anonymity, you lose your freedom. I think you say freedom is the price you paid for the privilege of the job. I was wondering how that impacted you. And if you thought about how there are other jobs where that problem may be exacerbated, even the process of running is exponentially worse.

59:15Jon Favreau:And if that bothers you, if that worries you, is that something you think about? You can't go for a walk. You can't drive yourself in a car. You can't go to fucking drive through.

59:27Gavin Newsom:Look, I, and everyone's rolling like, whatever. Yeah. Oh, it's so tough for you. But that is, there is a thing, you know, so in the book I describe, you know, just running for office and being able to run around on the streets and be able to go to coffee clutches and stores and you know have some anonymity here a little bit you know people angry pissed off yelling here and you know you should do this that fine and then there's an election and I literally went to bed and then truly I woke up the next morning and didn't get a lot of sleep and sort of blurry I'd walked out and there's like these two strangers right outside the door I'm both I'm like oh hey sorry what's uh you know excuse me and I walked down they're like they started walking with me.

1:00:08Gavin Newsom:I'm like, who the hell are you guys? And it literally was that moment that I have not had one without some semblance of that. You know, guys in the car, you're trying to make a phone call. Hey, honey, how are you? I'm fine. You want to talk about it? I'm fine. What's wrong?

1:00:27Tommy Vietor:Nothing.

1:00:27Gavin Newsom:You know, we're sitting right there and sort of this relationship to anonymity where you know there was there was a year and a half where literally i wouldn't get on an airplane not for me but for everyone else on the plane because i'm like i'm sorry yeah i'm sorry i know i know you know people that you know this that the whole thing because i get it like back to the stacking of stress back to the stress the intention that we're all feeling and and so i you know it allowed me to drive back and forth to la more often and spend more time in central valley than any governor in history, which was also important.

1:01:01Gavin Newsom:But yeah, you lose that. You lose the serendipity. And I remember as mayor, I lost a little of it, but not a lot. So every week, a true story, and I wrote about it a little bit. Every Friday, I would walk to work, and I'd walk through the tenderloin of San Francisco. And I didn't need to focus group. I didn't need to see where the polls were. You got the pulse of how people felt in that relationship to people's struggles and aspirations and desperation, especially in that part of San Francisco. And I miss that. And I think our politics misses that. You want your elected officials. It's management by walking around.

1:01:37Gavin Newsom:You want to walk through a skid row, but not with an entourage. You don't want to be that guy. You want to be able to absorb and feel and understand how you're really doing. And I think you're right with the president. I mean, that's something I can't even imagine. And you guys were up close to that. how that disconnection to your truth and that relationship to that truth and and how you absorb it and how you feel it differently than intellectualizing and poll testing it uh how i think it does shape our politics and how do you overcompensate for that especially now with the violence right especially with you trump people shooting at trump you know the charlie kirk

1:02:13Jon Favreau:assassination i mean the distance between politicians and the people who they're serving or trying to get votes from is only getting greater and greater. And it's a terrible cycle.

1:02:24Gavin Newsom:This is like an actual real thing. And this is where I think about any future I think about in relationship to my kids. When I talk about that recall, we had to homeschool my oldest daughter. And I will never forget, I helped her with her speech that she gave in our living room for eighth grade graduation. And I was so proud of her because she looked up the whole time. And I said, look above someone's head because they'll see you thinking. And she was staring at me with a big smile. And she gave this beautiful speech, but she gave it just to Jen and the kids and her brothers and sisters. Because the attacks at the school.

1:03:02Gavin Newsom:You know, I hate your daddy. I hate this and this and that. And we had this again. I mean, we all did. All had this protesters for almost a year and a half. And now, to your point about what's happened, this is another level of stuff. And like, trust me, you don't know. an infinitesimal amount of the stuff that comes in. And that's why the temperature definitely, I mean, we have to take that temperature down. And I do worry about it. I mean, we talk about, you know, when you send troops to American city, not overseas, this sort of lack of civility and this concern that we all have, are we crossing those red lines?

1:03:42Gavin Newsom:Are we at war with one another? And forgive me, because I know, and forgot the long windedness. But we've had this conversation when I went on your podcast because you were asking me about mine. And thank you, the one of you. Yeah, listener.

1:03:57Tommy Vietor:Please applaud. I've got one listener. The man has a podcast. That's the sound of a download.

1:04:03Gavin Newsom:But I was, people felt I crossed the line because I was reaching across the aisle. Because I was making the case Bill Clinton made for years and years, divorce is not an option. We're just, you know, it's not. just because I don't want you to exist doesn't mean you're not going to persist. And we just have to define the terms of the future. And so I started reaching out to people I vehemently disagreed with. And a lot of folks were angry saying, how are you platforming these people? Why are you talking to that son of a bitch? But it's honestly was in my relationship to this reality, man, we got to take the temperature down.

1:04:37Gavin Newsom:You know, we can punch Trump back. We can have the line. But at the same time, man, you know, we all want to be loved. We We all want to be protected, connected, respected. And we've just got to move. I appreciate the resistance frame, but I think all of us back to, you know, we want to talk about renewal. We want to talk about a rebirth of our civic spirit and civic pride and our civic duty. And we're all waiting for that moment. That moment's going to come. I don't think it's here yet. You know, we're in this struggle. So many ways the obstacle is the way. Trump will define that. but all of us look forward to when we can turn the page on this moment and we can restore some civility and grace um so uh the epilogue of the book uh you write a lot about your relationship

1:05:30Tommy Vietor:with trump your interactions with trump uh we could talk about it forever we will not do that

1:05:35Gavin Newsom:the only want to talk about my tour with trump in the bedroom well that's what so the thing the The thing that Tommy and I really want to know is tell us more about the reaction on

1:05:48Tommy Vietor:Jared Kushner's face when Donald Trump said in front of him and you that he wished Ivanka had married Tom Brady instead. Yeah. Seems kind of mean. Was he crying? It's a weird thing to say to your son.

1:06:07Gavin Newsom:I was crying for Jared. I thought, I mean, how could someone, it was so dehumanizing in front of his own son-in-law saying it wasn't his first choice. And if Trump can do that to his son-in-law in Marine One in front of strangers, that sums him up, man. That sums him up. And it's an interesting, it's a fun little story where Trump talks about how Ivanka didn't call Tom Brady back. and she's like, what are you, what the hell, why are you calling Tom Brady back? It's Tom Brady. And she goes, well, dad, I'm in love. And, and Trump is telling the story and he goes, well, who are you in love with? Well, with Jared.

1:06:49Gavin Newsom:He goes, you mean the guy whose father was in jail? He says it in front of Jared right there. Said, can you believe? And he like hits me on the leg, said, can you believe Tom Brady? She didn't do Tom Brady. I was like, there's Jared's right there. damn

1:07:05Jon Favreau:that is so weird damn so weird so weird it really brought the story brought me joy though it's petty but yeah I know Jared sucks but I mean no one deserves that also Tom Brady's everybody's first choice if we're being honest take a number Ivanka what are you talking about

1:07:25Tommy Vietor:Governor you've been so generous with your time everyone the book is Young Man in a Hurry it is a It is honestly, it's a really good book. I appreciate it. It's a really good book. Thank you guys.

1:07:36Gavin Newsom:Thank you for being here. Thank you for reading the book. Thank you to John and Tommy. Thank you guys all for being here. I appreciate you. Thank you guys very, very much.

1:07:49Tommy Vietor:That's our show. Thank you to Gavin Newsom for joining us. One little housekeeping note before we go. Love It or Leave It is coming to D.C. April 23rd at the Lincoln Theater. It's Lovett's traditional pre-White House Correspondents Dinner show, and it's always a ton of fun. maybe even more so this year since Trump will actually be attending the correspondence dinner itself. Love It will be announcing some big guests soon and if you can't make it to the DC show, Love It or Leave It is live in LA every Thursday night. Tickets for DC and LA are on sale now at cricket.com slash events. Love It, Tommy and I will be back on Tuesday.

1:08:21Tommy Vietor:If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Also, please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Crooked.

1:08:56Tommy Vietor:is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellaviv, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.