The Democratic Party's Civil War

24:47All right, let's pivot to your hometown of New York City, which has been ground zero for the rise of democratic socialism, beginning first with Bamdani, and then the races that happened in the New York primary. Two incumbents were unseated, and two DSA candidates won races, one unseating a long-term incumbent, one winning an open seat. And then in Colorado, where we had a 30-year Democrat incumbent, Diana, to get unseated by a Democratic socialist. What do you make of the rise of Democratic socialism? Is this about socialism? Is it about the fact that these are all districts that Kamala Harris won by more than 50 points?

25:31What's your take on what's happening here? I think voters are hungry for someone offering them a solution to their problems, especially young people who cannot afford to buy a house, cannot afford child care, are stuck with student loan debt, feel like they have no agency in their lives. They are looking to gambling or crypto or whatever it is, because at the very least, that feels like something you might have some control over. They are pissed. They are frustrated with the status quo. And DSA candidates are saying, here's a solution. They're offering an alternative. The establishment or the center or the old guard could also do the same.

26:04And I think it is telling to me that they are not putting forward like a vision for what else could be possible. You know, the fact that Mamdani was able to speak to the not just the anxiety that people feel about their economic situation, but also like how they feel about what what their life might hold. Like it wasn't just afford to live. It was afford to dream. It was afford to to be able to imagine a better future for yourself. I think also DSA has built some organizing muscle in a lot of these places, which should not be underrated. and their candidates are selling something. That matters.

26:36If you look at the polling, there is just absolutely no question that socialism has grown in favor with Democratic voters over the last many years here. In the New York Times-Siena poll, every single demographic, every single age cohort of Democrats, a plurality of Democrats have a favorable opinion of socialism. Interestingly enough, I find this to be so fascinating. The group with the highest approval rating of or highest capability rate of socialism is not 18 to 29 year olds it's 30 to 44 that's millennials baby yes and which you know i was telling this with ever i think but it does make sense if you are of an age where you came of age in the great recession like you really have been through the ringer in a way that is uh where capitalism has really fucked you like at every turn and you're also at the age where you want to be buying a house and you either can't afford to do it or it's more expensive you can you have kids like you're at it but socialism has grown in favor and capitalism has lost a lot support across the board with everyone um in recent years also understandably so i i think there is something to like it was easy to dismiss mom donnie as a generational talent just like that guy could have he could have been democratic socialist he could whatever.

27:55He was so good. He's so good. But these other candidates, they're good, but it's not generational talent that's winning. People want big change, and the left is more comfortable offering big change than the center. It doesn't mean there can't be a moderate version of something that addresses in a compelling, understandable, credible way the cost of healthcare, housing, food, whatever else, like you can do that, just have been unwilling to do it. And there is just something in, there's a passion in how that is different with not every, but with a lot of leftist first center candidates that comes through that reads as authenticity and that you'll fight for them.

28:40Right. And it is like, I was struck. I remember there's a clip from the Diana to get me like heroes debate where Diana to get is making an argument about a public option, which in a different era, I mean, that was a position too liberal for the Democratic Senate and the Obama era when Obama was trying to do it. And it's like, you know, she's sort of living in the world of legislatively possible. And Kyrus makes this very passionate argument for Medicare, the morality behind Medicare for all and why it's the right thing to do. And it's just like the difference there, part of it is generational, part of it is insider, outsider, but part of it also is that's an easier argument to make in the moment.

29:21Now we can talk about how hard it is to make maybe in a general election, but in the moment, there's just, they're offering something that is different. Now, do you, there, there is real concern among even well-meaning, I think people in the establishment, the people who are trying to win the house and the Senate, that this rise of, And I should say, thus far, Democrats have not nominated any DSA candidates in races that aren't guaranteed Democratic races. So we're not in a situation where a bunch of these candidates are knocking off – they're not winning a nomination in a district where they would be very, very far to the left of the district that's happening in the bluest districts in the country, which is probably how the primary process is supposed to work.

30:06But, you know, you do have an upcoming race with Democratic Socialists in Wisconsin running for governor. But I think a lot of Democrats have this fear that this could cost us the House and the Senate, either by DSA candidates winning primaries where they are to the left of the district or just being tarnishing the already tarnished brand of the Democrats. What's your take? The Democratic brand can't get much worse. What are we doing here, guys? We're going to try. I'll tell you that. You know, I do think that just to speak to that particular point where like if a candidate can't comfortably say, you know what, I don't agree with my future colleague on XYZ issue, but I look forward to working together to find a way to bring everyone affordable health care.

30:46Like you're not a good politician. You don't have to agree with all of your colleagues and everything. You can respectfully dismiss them and look forward to working together to the point of like how are I thinking about the bigger picture here? You know, these candidates where they're running and winning, they are getting people excited. Shouldn't we want people to be excited about this process? Like these DSA meetings, like them or not, and like I'm not a DSA member. That's not where I sit ideologically. But I look at those meetings and there's young people showing up. They are volunteering. They are donating.

31:17They are participating in very boring conversations about process. Like that is what building a political party looks like. We should want that. And we should try to make the broader Democratic Party a place where that is possible. Now, I will say, Run for Something last year had nearly, over the last 18 months, had about 100 ,000 people raise their hands to run for office. That is more than we had in the entirety of Trump's first term. The thing that we have heard different over this year and the last that we didn't hear in Trump 1.0 was frustration with the Democratic Party. Was people explicitly saying, I am running for office because they are not going to fight for me.

31:49They have not delivered for me. They do not see me. They do not care about me. So the DSA is giving those people a home. The Democratic Party, like, you know, Big D, could do the same. Yeah, I mean, it's there's no question. You know, I'm not overly worried about I mean, they called Barack Obama socialist and there were no they called Joe Biden a socialist. What are we doing here? We could elect no DSA candidates and they would call swing state Democratic member candidates socialists like that would that would happen. I mean, you know, this from all the races run is you would need candidates who are ideologically fit their district.

32:22These DSA candidates obviously fit their district. The voters said that that's what they declared. And, you know, and Bulls that maybe, you know, and so far, like we, there have been some non-DSA candidates who have won some primaries that some people believe were against, you know, you, I'm thinking about Maine 2, Randy Villegas were like, were the, the establishment had a view on who was the best candidate to win. The more progressive candidate won. We'll find out in a few months who was right. Actually, I take that back. We'll never find out who is right because it's always a counterfactual.

32:57We don't know what the other person would have won. The DSA thing is, I think, it's become – it's a little bit like the Plattner thing where it's become a proxy for something else. It's the easiest boogeyman for some of the center groups to say – to fight something else or something broader because Democrats are becoming more liberal. That is true on almost every issue. It is true that the number of Democrats who describe themselves as very liberal has gone up significantly since Trump was elected. The number how Democrats feel about a whole bunch of issues, particularly Israel, which we'll get to, has changed dramatically.

33:34And so but that's not like that. That is contributed to the rise of DSA, but it's not because of the rise of DSA. I also struggle a lot with like, what is the who is the target for that argument that like DSA candidates shouldn't win these races? Like, I'm a New York City voter. You're telling me that I should pick my mayor based on who might cause tarnish to the Democratic Party brand as a mythical voter in Wisconsin? Like, what an insane thing to suppose or to suggest. I really I struggle with this because it assumes much like the left assumes that there is some secret cabal in charge who can control how elections are run or control what candidates say.

34:11If anybody was in charge, do you think this is how it would go? Yes. Yes. Yes, yes. It is voters making their voices heard on who they want to represent them. And we should be grateful that they are participating and that there are candidates that get them excited to show up. We should learn from that. There are exceptions. I am someone who generally believes like I am. I've gotten more progressive in my personal views as I've gotten older. I've also live in California now. So maybe those two things are related. Sure. But I still, you know, I grew up working on races in red states and red districts.

34:44Like that's my background. So I'm very cognizant that you need people who meet the district and that you're going to need candidates who are often to the right of the median Democrat nationally to win. And so especially we want to expand the Senate map. We want to get back to a place where we can win Ohio, Iowa, the Dakotas, you know, places in the South. We have to do that. But I think more Democrats should generally be aware of the challenges, like just how the Republican bias in the Senate map, the Republican bias in the Electoral College, and the reality of winning these districts. And you can't – like what exists in your bubble is not what exists out there in a lot of places we have to win.

35:24Having said that, I think one of the great mistakes of the people making that argument is that they never offer – it's always to tear down a – we're anti-DSA. We're anti-Zoron. Like Zoron getting elected was – like this is the third way argument. Zoron getting elected is to be like the end of the world, especially when the other option was – Cuomo. Cuomo. I would just say there's a great irony between the most vehemently anti-Platinum people being the most vehemently pro-Cuomo people, just as a point. I mean, just to like really hammer this home, if you were so afraid of DSA, there was a multitude of other options in that primary you could have galvanized around.

36:05Even right now, and I'm sure we'll talk about Michigan in a moment, like if you are so afraid of Abdul El-Sayed, there was other options besides Haley Stevens, who they are currently having to spend$53 million to try and get over the finish line. It didn't have to be her. Mallory McMorrow, who you and I both know and supported and like a Run for Something alum, was right there. Now, I'm actually glad that she did not get the establishment support. I think that would have tarnished her campaign further. But putting aside for that for a moment, you have to put something forward. We talk, I mean, this is literally Run for Something.

36:36You have to have a vision, a solution. You have to talk to the problems that people are experiencing because voters are actually not progressive or conservative or moderate or centrist, they have problems they want solved. And they want politicians who will do that so that they don't have to care anymore. The center could pose that. They could put forward candidates who do that. It is so telling and frustrating that instead they choose to punch left. And also they are punching left instead of possibly creating space for Republicans to come in, for other Democrats to come in. They are doing the thing that drives me crazy, which is yelling at the enemy who can hear them as opposed to yelling at the enemy who can solve their problems.

37:43We'll see you next time. clinically shown to support gut health, fill common nutrition gaps and improve key nutrient levels within three months. When you're traveling, it's great to throw something like AG1 into your bag. So you know that like, you know, you're in your hotel, maybe you're getting something quick on your way out the door. Maybe you're like eating like at the airport, whatever. And if you have it with you, you know that like no matter how badly you're gonna eat on the road or maybe you wanna eat badly on the road because you're going to Texas or something, you're just gonna barbecue the whole time.

38:08Bring AG1 with you. I love it. I had something this morning. Visit drinkag1.com slash crooked to get a free AG1 travel case with seven free AG1 travel packs in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order while supplies last. That's drinkag1.com slash crooked.

38:27All right, let's go to Michigan, which is the race that has supplanted Maine as the center of the Democratic Party Civil War. We haven't talked about it a ton on this show, in part because Abdul worked for Crooked, did a podcast for Crooked. John, John, and Tommy have supported his campaign. I supported Mallory McMorri. It's the one race where he actually had actually supported candidates. He had actually donated money to primary candidates. That's not something that happened with Plattner or anything like that. This is one where they knew Abdul. I know Abdul. I like Abdul. I know Mallory. I think Mallory's great.

39:02I wanted to support Mallory. This race is now down. Mallory dropped out a couple weeks ago. It's now down to Haley Stevens, a The moderate establishment-backed Congresswoman and Abdul Saeed has become the center of the Democratic Party civil war. There is just the amount of attention it's getting, particularly online from the most online Democratic activists and pundits, is huge. It is really established. It's everything, right? It's establishment versus outsider. It's Bernie versus establishment, I guess, or Senate leadership. it's anti-israel versus a pack all of the above what do you have a take on this race i think it is a uh preview of the 2028 presidential primary that makes me want to throw my phone into the sea i know it's just i think it's it's interesting it's hard i don't envy michiganders who have to make this choice and i really hope that whoever wins this primary can build some bridges, mend some fences, because I think it's getting people really, really, really angry in a way that will be hard to fix.

40:15It reminds me a lot of the 2016 presidential memory, where it just feels very similar. And no matter who wins, they're going to have to work very hard. It's a long road back to you, to me. Yes, yes. I struggle with several things in this race, which is my original beef in maine was the dscc endorsing janet mills like i was kind of interested in platner but my main thing was like let's just let the people in maine decide like and i was very i thought i've talked about this many times but i just thought the mills decision was a sort of a political mistake i thought the decision to back hayley stevens over mallory and abdul i thought was also a crazy decision um i thought just you should stay out of it but where we are now is this is It's become a lot about a quote unquote electability.

41:03And the argument of the Stevens people and Stevens campaign fairly directly is that Abdul cannot win or is at least much less likely to win than Haley Stevens. What's your take on electability in this context? We have no idea. And I think the establishment quote unquote has lost all credibility on that argument. They thought Joe Biden could win another term. Like they don't have the proof points anymore to make the case that they know what voters want. Like. Can Haley Stevens win? I don't know. It seems like they've had to spend a lot of money to get her through the Democratic primary. If she does eke this out, she's outspending Abdul, what, 10 to one?

41:46It's it's not even. And it's 90 percent, 99 percent of that money or 90 percent of that money is from not the Haley Stevens. They actually went – Haley Stevens' campaign went up with their first ad today as we're recording this. APAC has spent tens of millions of dollars, I think north of$30 million at least, on Haley Stevens' behalf. And then you have some other super PACs. The thing that – there's many things that anger me about this. And like it's very possible. You could make a case that Haley Stevens, as a quote-unquote moderate, and who will certainly appear more moderate if she wins a primary against Abdul.

42:27That is one of the things. When you come off looking quite moderate when you win a primary against a progressive because you're positioned in that moderate place, maybe more electable. I don't know that. You could make that case. It's possible. um the you could make the case that because abdul is to the left uh you know michigan is the quintessential swing state now trump's won it to the last three elections it's a 50 50 state we assume it's probably three to four you know five maybe five points uh to the left this time at the generic ballot looks the way we think it does um that you know a candidate that far to the left you know if you look at political science research is less likely to win like that like You can make that case too.

43:10But your point is no one knows. The thing that angers me about the Abdul electability question is no one is willing to just say what they mean by it. Is your argument that he's too far left? In what positions is it he's too far left on? Is it his position on Israel? The polling would suggest that he's right where the American people are. Is it Medicare for all? Super popular. It is popular. Now, if you – like Medicare for all can become much less popular over time if it's advertising against the right. Like that could potentially be a vulnerability. But no one wants to say that because the Democratic base very understandably supports Medicare for all.

43:53Is it because he campaigned with Hassan Piker? Maybe. Like do you want to make that argument? Like in the Data for Progress May poll, only 20 % of Democratic primary voters knew who Hassan Piker was. But you can put it in ads. You can put what Hassan said. You don't have to know who he is. Is it because his name is Abdul El-Sayed? Is that what the reason is? That's the subtext of a lot of this, but no one will actually say that. And I would say I come at this from a very personal view because that was always the argument. When you say he hasn't been vetted, he hasn't been vetted, he hasn't been vetted.

44:28That's what they said about Barack Hussein Obama too, often right after they called him Barack Hussein Obama. And I don't know who's more electable. I just wish people would just be honest about what they actually think about why he's more electable. Haley Stevens did flip a Republican district in 2018. She performed exactly like a generic Democrat in 2024. I think I used the split ticket wins over replacement rating, but I think she's like a point, she's like 0.3, I think, but basically the same. Like it's not a proven winner. And it's like, it's to your point is we don't know. And I don't want to defend Haley Stevens here because I do not think she is the right candidate for this moment in any number of ways.

45:06But I will say a lot of the criticism of her about being unelectable or being a bad candidate is so sexist. A hundred percent. So, so sexist. And we should also say that because this is going to be a challenge, especially as women keep running, which they will. It is very hard in this modern information ecosystem for women to run because you have to be telegenic. You have to speak a certain way. You have to sound a certain way. Where do you perform your authenticity as a woman? Like if she did some of the videos or even if Mallory had done some of the videos that Abdul has done, they would have been mocked endlessly.

45:41It never would have been on the table. So she is not the right candidate for this moment, I think, for any number of reasons. But the criticism of her has been deeply sexist. There's this video that's been circulating that has been got that has gotten, I think, 10 million views of her. and she's at an organizing rally and she is um in a very um emphatic michigan accent is talking about how she's going to fight for michigan and that like that is like that's become like that's become a thing but my guess is most people see that and have no reaction to it you know it's an online thing and you know the the obviously i have biasers in support of mallory but mallory made some of those videos that uh there's are not dissimilar to the ones that abdul's made and torn to smithereens yeah on the internet for sure like whether how an actual voter would interpret i have no idea but it was just absolutely it's like that's why this one is so complicated and it's and then sitting over top of it is israel and gaza where abdul has been incredibly outspoken has supposed to aid israel is called a genocide hailey stevens has um been a big, has been supported by AIPAC.

46:53When she won her primary in 2022, she got a ton of funding from AIPAC. AIPAC, as I said, spent all this money in here. How do you think about AIPAC's role in this and the role Israel's playing? Let's start with Michigan, then I want to expand it out to everything else. When this campaign is all said and done, it seems like 80 % of the funding, at least of her campaign, at least what was on air funding TV ads is going to be paid for by one specific interest group. I don't know that I've ever seen it before. I've seen super PACs put a lot of money in races like in the Iowa primary, Josh Turek got a whole bunch of money from vote vets.

47:31That money really seemed to have come from the DSE, from the Senate majority super PAC world. And it's like a mix of different, different groups. But here you have one specific group with a specific policy agenda, spending this much money on a candidate. Have you ever seen anything like this before? It seems concerning. The only thing that maybe comes close is the way that AI was spending money in the New York congressional races. Yeah, I think it's Alex Boris, yeah. But even that was like not to the same extent. And I saw some really interesting polling in particular about the Michigan Democratic primary voters.

48:03AIPAC has a net negative 46 favorability rating. 78 % of Michigan Democratic primary voters said they'd be less likely to vote for a Senate candidate backed by AIPAC. 86%, they'd be less likely to vote for a candidate who supports continued funding for Israel's war in Gaza. This is toxic for them. I think it's telling that most of their ads do not talk about Israel. They do not talk about Gaza. Never. Never mentioned. Yeah. This is both a question of policy, but it's also a question of morals. I think we have seen now that the way that candidates engage on what's happening in Gaza has become a moral litmus test of do you have the sense of conscience to call what's happening a genocide and to want to push policy away from enabling it.

48:47We just saw the vote earlier this week where House Democrats, a record number of them, including a number of sorts, like I did not expect Nancy Pelosi to vote to cut up aid to Israel. Nancy Pelosi, Catherine Clark, the whip, yes. Yeah, like things are changing and they are good because that is where voters are. Voters see this as a crisis of conscience and they know that they want their leaders to push back. I also think that the way that AIPAC is spending in this speaks to the larger, very negative feelings people have about the role of money in politics. And it has become the ultimate boogeyman for, you know, someone is trying to buy the election and drown out your voice.

49:23Not great. Back on Michigan for a second. One question I have is, is AIPAC going to support Haley Stevenson in general against Mike Rogers? Because right now she has struggled to raise money. You have James Tallarico raising record numbers. You have John Ossoff raising record numbers. Abdul raised, I think, more than$4 million this last quarter. There are Democratic candidates who are raising lots of money. Haley Stevens has struggled to raise grassroots money, which really matters because big-dollar Democratic donations are down. You have more people willing to give$5,$10,$50,$100 bucks, and fewer people willing to write$7 ,000 per couple maxed-out checks.

50:06And so if you can't raise grassroots money and APAC is not going to, maybe they will be there, but it's, I just, is she better than Mike Rogers for them? I don't know. I don't know. But that's like, that's a question. And like, obviously, if she's a nominee, the Senate super PACs, the Senate Democrat super PACs can supplement, but that's money is coming out of somewhere else. That's money that's not going to Iowa or Alaska or Texas or somewhere else. I think it's a really good question. And I also think AIPAC has shown not the smartest of strategies. No, they've elected a lot of anti-Israel Democrats.

50:38Yeah. And like, even if you think beyond this, they have not created space for a political home for people who maybe aren't as far left as where DSA is, but also aren't where AIPAC is in a way that they're not thinking beyond the next three months. And I think it is really dangerous for the future of our democracy in many ways because of how much money they're able to spend and how threatening it has become. The vote of the House, it is, I don't know, many people may not have been tracking this over the years, but the idea that 100 Democrats would vote, the idea that 10 Democrats would vote against aid to Israel, the idea that Nancy Pelosi and a member of the House leadership would vote against aid to Israel is, would have been impossible to imagine.

51:19Impossible. You maybe get one, a Thomas Massey and the Democrat equivalent of Thomas Massey or a Rand Paul. Like the idea that people would do this in mass is impossible to imagine. It does speak, and this is the downside of APEC's and the Israeli government's allegiance sort of alliance with Republicans in most cases, is if Democrats take the majority, how would a speaker, Hakeem Jeffries, even be able to get, like, it seems like that's the end of the ballgame. I don't know how he could even bring that bill forward. I do not envy his job. Yes, it's very challenging. It does not seem fun. I do think like one of the things that the broader activist movement needs to really think about is like, how do you welcome these newcomers in?

51:59How do you, you know, better late to the party than not coming to this party at all when it comes to this issue? The point of persuasion is to get people to agree with you. And I do think there is still some stickiness around like, well, you didn't say genocide early enough. You didn't, you know, you didn't like call it out two years ago. It's like, if I do it now, that's that is better than never. And that is the point of this work. And so I do want to like just plant that seed of as we keep growing this coalition, like how do we make sure it feels like one that can continue in a way that is welcoming?

52:31The way this issue is going to hang out of the 2028 Democratic primary and the amount of people who are going to come maybe lately to be against funding or to call it a genocide or all those things is going, it's just, I mentioned this to Favre last week or two weeks ago, that we are one year away from what's likely the first Democratic primary debate. Yep. I want to die. It's just like so horrifying. No, lie down and never get up. I know. I know.

53:06Hey, Dan Taberski here. I'm a podcast host, a journalist, and now with my newest project, the author of my own manifesto. Well, it's a manifesto about manifestos. My search for inspiration in a world that feels more infuriating, more out of its freaking mind with each passing hour. Manifestos are a call to action, an artful scream. They capture our anger and they try to do something with it. This is my attempt to take the Manifesto back from mass shooters and nihilists and return it to its rightful place with the warriors, the visionaries, the regular folks with just the right amount of crazy.

53:41I compare notes with radicals, secessionists, internet trolls out for a laugh, and punk singers screaming their guts out, all trying to turn their anger into the world they want to see. Listen to Manifesto wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Manifesto early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

54:28so. You've had a tremendous impact over the last, I mean, you've never been doing this for a long time. We are year eight. Nine and a half. It'll be 10 years in January. Just because it'll also be, I mean, you started an organization that got thousands of people to run. I started a podcast, you know, to each their own, I guess, because we're on year nine of Positive America now.

54:52You hinted at this earlier, but I want to put a finer point on it. After Trump won this time, There were much digital ink was spilled around the idea that the resistance was dead. And there was some anecdotal evidence for that. There was no women's march. There was, you know, you saw, you know, no one had protests as a new brunch signs out. There was less protesting. No one rushed to the airports when the next version of the Muslim ban was signed. But Run for Something was a bit different. Like you guys had a different experience after Trump won. Talk to me a little bit about the enthusiasm you've seen.

55:28So right after Trump won, we started seeing thousands of people raise their hands to run for office. You know, 18 months later, it's over 100 ,000 people who signed up to run for office since then, more than we had since 2024, more than we had in the entirety of Trump's first term. As I said earlier last year, we had, I think, a 60 percent win rate on Election Day. we had a night where we elected both a DSA-affiliated candidate to the Atlanta City Council and a former Republican who left the party after January 6th to a rural county commission in Pennsylvania. We have built the tent that is tight on values and flexible on policy, and has now elected more than just about 1 ,700 young people across 49 states plus D.C., including many that are now running for higher office, like James Tallarico, like Mallory McMorrow, but also like Francesca Hong in Wisconsin, like Sarah McBride in Delaware, and so many others who are, I think, the future of the Democratic Party.

56:25And that's not ideologically like pure, however you want to define it. It is people who love their communities, who want to solve problems, who want to speak to their neighbors, and who are willing to do so in a way that is authentic and genuine and connected and fun. And it makes me so hopeful and excited at a moment where like most of the Democratic Party does not. But I really do believe like we are on the brink of a tipping point where the party is going to be more run for something alone than not. It is going to be more leaders who look like our folks than not. And that's a good thing, I think.

57:01For sure. It's what's encouraging about it is we our party is a gerontocracy. You know, there are so many reasons for this. You know, it is, you know, we went, you know, Democrats often pick the next person in line and then Obama skipped the line. And then we went back to the back of the line and went further back of the line with Hillary and Biden. And then we also had the 2010 elections, which gutted like a big chunk of the party because we lost so many seats in the redistricting. And then first in 2010 in that election, and then so many of our state legislative candidates, state legislators were redistricted out in that redistricting.

57:44And then we lost again. And we lost a lot of the middle. And so you guys have helped bring up the – like we missed the middle generation, and now we have a younger generation coming up. Are there some particular candidates this cycle that you're excited about that people should know about? Oh, there's so many. Caitlin Dre is running for Iowa State Senate. She won a special election in 2025. She broke the Iowa Republican supermajority. She flipped the seat Trump had carried by 10 points. She is now defending that seat this November. So excited about her. Julia Salinas, who is running for Texas State House.

58:16This is like probably the genuine toss up in the Texas House district. He's the grandson of migrant farm workers. He came from behind in a three-way March primary and then won the May runoff by 11 points against a more establishment-backed candidate. This is in the Rio Grande Valley. It's in a seat that Trump carried by just, I think, like a point and a half in 2024. So exciting. Chris Thomas in Pennsylvania State Senate. He is a former public school teacher. He's a volunteer firefighter. He's up against a first-term Republican senator. We're trying to flip that chamber there. So he is phenomenal.

58:52Michael Ferguson, who's running for Florida State House in Broward County. He's an active duty Air Force judge advocate. He was served as one of the youngest special trial counsels in Air Force history. He's an attorney. This is the only legislative district in Broward County, which is very Democratic, that is still held by Republicans. So it is a top target to pick up in the Florida State House. You know, I could go on and on and on. We have hundreds of candidates up this year. The value of 100 ,000, as you said. It's going to be good, guys. It's going to be good. So the party, we did a lot of thinking after Trump won in 2016.

59:26One of the things that sort of everyone came to the too late conclusion was is the Democrats did not pay enough attention to down ballot races. I really do think that that focus shifted in the first Trump era. Obviously, there's you guys. There was Sister District. The swing left, Indivisible. Everyone is really working hard to win on these races. lots of focus on secretary of states and in governor's races in the wake of January 6th and trying to protect election integrity. Do you feel like there is the party apparatus, the donor world, the activist world, the people with platforms are, have maintained that focus in Trump 2.0 or have we lost a little bit because we're sort of obsessed with Trump again?

1:00:09We have lost a little bit. I would say in particular the donor world. And I will be very honest, like everyone who's not running for House or Senate this year that can't like if you're not a House or Senate candidate, you are probably struggling. Like run for something, we're doing OK, but we have had to be really careful stewards of our resources. And like just to put a really fine point on this, you know, run for something's budget is eight million dollars a year, just about. The Republican counterpart to run for something is called the Leadership Institute. It has been around for 30 some odd years.

1:00:39It has a 50 million dollar a year annual budget. I think I could have candidate recruitment offices in every state and be doing year round. Like I cannot imagine what I would do with 50 million dollars a year. It is the kind of abundance mindset around we can do it all that the Democratic Party just does not seem to operate from. So is that a scarcity of people want to write those checks or those just checks going to the wrong place? A little bit of call of a little bit of call of B. So some of it is like Like, we don't have enough rich people or, you know, our grassroots donors are very excited about some of the Senate races and not as excited about some of the infrastructure because it's not as flashy and not as exciting.

1:01:21And really big checks still go to places that run TV ads or, you know, this right now it's like creator stuff. And that's not to say that's not important, but that stuff ceases to exist after Election Day. Run for something and so many of other partners on the ground who are doing this real locally driven work that happens. like candidate recruitment for 2026 happened in 2025. The recruitment that we are doing now for say the Louisiana and Mississippi state legislative races, which are going to be critical because of how they've redistricted these states and blowing up the Voting Rights Act, that recruitment happens now.

1:01:54So if you are not funding things year round and sustaining this work with multi-year giving, multi-month giving, it is impossible to do in the way that is the most effective and efficient. You know, it's just so fascinating because I spent a lot of time over the last nine years now, I guess, talking to donors about, like my big thing has always been investing in media infrastructure, right? That we need to do medium and long-term investments in content creation, media, pro-democracy media. I have my newsletter, all these things, but just beyond our stuff, just generally Republicans have investing and stuff for a lot of days, we don't.

1:02:33And you're talking to very smart people who have made a lot of money in their life making good investments. And it's just, I've never been able to figure out why when you talk to them about investments that pay out over time is less appealing than the short-term one-time use of money on largely television ads. Think about how much money was spent. You want your$50 million. Your$50 million could be found in two weeks of Superpack ads. Yep, 100%. If I think about it too much, I won't get out of bed in the morning. I'm saying I want you to be able to continue to get out of bed. You have a very important job and you have children, so I think it's important that you get out of bed.

1:03:17But I want anyone listening who has those sort of resources to think about, even if you could get, let's say you could double from 8 to 16 or get to half of that 50. It's just one, truly one week of television ads in Texas. Is my entire budget. Is your entire budget, right? And to get to the beginning of the conversation, we talked about candidate recruitment is stage zero of winning an election. If you want better TV ads, if you want the megaphone that we're building around media and creators to have something good to amplify, it starts with getting really good people to run in as many places as possible.

1:03:55We work in all 50 states. We also have a long-term vision for what we think the battlegrounds could be and might be in 2030 and 2032. We're doing intensive recruitment in these places. We're providing candidates with the skills and tools they need to win their races. Like, why don't I have$50 million? I don't know. Ask the billionaires. I do know that the work is working, that there's such demand for our work, and that I am so proud of what we have built. And I think it's going to keep paying off because the nice thing about candidate recruitment in particular is when one person wins that like against the odds race.

1:04:29And when one person makes history, dozens and dozens or hundreds or thousands more like them say, you know what, maybe I can do this, too. That is a very hopeful place to end this. But before I let you go, just in case we have a billionaire or someone who maybe works for one of these AI companies going public, who's about to be a billionaire, and they would like to help you get to your well-deserved$50 million budget, where can they give you money? Runforsomething.net. You can look us up. You can also find any of our other entities. And I should say, if any of your listeners want to run for office, it is probably too late for 2026.

1:05:03It is definitely not too early for 2027 or 2028. You can go to runforwhat.net. You can look up where you might want to run. Amanda Littman, always great to talk to you. I always leave these conversations smarter and a little bit more optimistic. So this is great. Thanks for having me, Dan. Thanks to Amanda Littman for coming on. John, John, and Tommy will be back in your feed on Tuesday. Bye, everyone. Pods of America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Farrah Safari with Ree Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hepco, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, Kirill Pellaviv, David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Singel.

1:05:35Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.