Total Eclipse of the Harp

23:48There's a notice story that basically says Donald Trump is seriously considering Scott Jennings for this job. That he is calling around, he's doing his thing where he calls around people and asks, what do you think of Scott? How do you think he's been doing on TV? So this is live that he's thinking about this. But at the very end, and the notice story, we should say, the headline is like Trump is thinking he wants to pick a man because he's had a bunch of women in this job. Who's the only man? Oh, Sean Spicer, right? Sean Spicer, yeah. Sean Spicer. So he's thinking of maybe having a man. Scott Jennings was named.

24:22Ari Fleischer was named. God help us. But at the very end of the notice piece, it ends with this tidbit. Quote, a person close to the White House predicted that all of the attention on the president's close aide, Natalie Harp, could catapult her into the position. So to be fair, as we said, Harper did do a stint on the right wing outlet, One American News Network, OANN, before working for Trump and where she sounded like a totally normal news anchor. Let's listen. We can't talk about winning back the House and Senate in 2022 and the White House in 2024 if we don't act on the fact that we actually did win the White House and the Senate in 2020.

25:05We shouldn't be afraid to say that because it's true. We the people know America as we know it could be ending in the next two or four years, which is exactly what President Trump is warning of. It just shows how desperate the Democrats were to find the votes to make up for President Trump's insurmountable lead. I mean, not to nitpick here, but I'm not sure she fully clocked what insurmountable meant. again i mean some real north korea shit there so she has that down by definition the lead was quite mountable what do you what do you think natalie for press secretary you think that's how this whole thing ends i can't imagine trump separating himself from his human binky for several hours a day while she preps for and does the briefing or her separating herself from him yes it goes both ways yeah she would even though it would obviously be a very lucrative position for her in the long run.

26:01She would become very famous. She would maybe get to graduate to a network better than OANN, like Newsmax. But she would turn it down because it would require separation from Trump. Yeah. And I mean, to be fair to her, she has more power right now. She's probably one of the most powerful people in the world. In the world right now. Why would she want to go be White House press secretary? Yes. She is Geppetto to Trump's Pinocchio. Just moving around one tweet at a time. All right. One more story about women being forced to babysit Trump administration bozos before we move on, because there's two this week.

26:39Jennifer Hegseth, wife of Pete Hegseth, gets a big story in The New York Times today on Thursday where she's described as her husband's most influential advisor and de facto producer, apparently attending highly sensitive meetings, traveling with her husband to, quote, keep him out of trouble and conducting job interviews at the Pentagon. What'd you make of that story, Dan? It seemed a bit odd to me. It's not your normal relationship. But then I tried to think, imagine you or I were secretary of defense or something like it. Okay. And I know my wife and I know your wife. And so I kind of imagine that in both those cases, they would be our closest advisors.

27:24Yes. although i would ask emily would be like i don't have time for your boring shit no she would she'd be producing you she would she would really i don't know i would get into the production part of it for sure i don't think she would be interviewing your press secretary she would not care about the meeting with the the ukrainian officials with the no but she but and they would be deeply involved both hallie and emily in both cases that's true and and clearly they'd have to be on the road with us to keep us out of trouble because we go on the road. We've done a lot of trouble together over the years and we were pretty, we're pretty boring.

28:01Oh no. One drink and then in bed by nine 30 so we can read the news. Could stand to get in a little more trouble. All right. Enough of that. Let's talk about the midterms where democratic primary results continue to drive the take economy, which is obviously what matters most here. Here's Politico. This is about Tuesday's results, Tuesday's primary results. Hashtag resistance Democrats are flopping in primaries. Here's Axios. The rise of DSA is killing off resistance 1.0 Democrats. And most definitively from the Atlantic, quote, the resistance is over. Those headlines refer in part to Tuesday night's results in Florida, where state representative Angie Nixon, a relatively unknown DSA candidate, won a massive upset against Alexander Vindman in the U.S.

28:49Senate Democratic primary. You might remember Vindman as the former Trump national security aide from the first administration who became a national figure as a key witness during Trump's 2019 impeachment hearings. That's the first impeachment. Extra points if you can remember what that was about. Vindman was widely expected to win, refused to debate, to even debate Nixon, and out-raised her by$15 million. She raised less than a million dollars total for a Senate race in Florida and won the primary. Nixon now advances to the general election where she'll face Senator Ashley Moody, who took Marco Rubio's seat when he was selected as Secretary of State.

29:30You wrote a great message box about this result, encouraging other Democrats to learn from Nixon's unexpected win. Tell us about it. How'd she win? How'd she pull it off? What should other dumbs take away? Sure. Nixon, as you mentioned, is someone who – she's a liberal. She joined the DSA during the campaign. But the typical coalition, both historically and in this cycle, for DSA or very progressive members has been young voters, white college-educated liberals, and a failure to make inroads with black voters and more working-class voters. Nixon won here because she ran up huge numbers among black voters in Florida.

30:13And she won the counties that have the largest segment of black voters. She won by 30 points. Now, she is from Jacksonville in Duval County, which is a huge slice of black voters. But she also did very well in the I-4 corridor, which is Tampa and Orlando. She did well in Miami-Dade, where also a lot of black voters. And even more importantly and notable, she did really well in what's called the Black Belt in northern Florida, which is the rural areas with large black communities. She just cleaned up in those counties. And then she took this really impressive number with black voters and then combined it with younger voters, more progressive voters, more college educated voters to give herself a 13 point win in this primary.

30:52When you wonder why these progressive candidates fail in particularly presidential primaries, Bernie Sanders, Howard Dean, Gary Hart, Bill Bradley, it's because they They can do the half of the coalition with young and white voters, which can get them through in the old calendar, Iowa and New Hampshire. And then you get to South Carolina in the South, all these black voters. And the only candidate who's been able to put the coalition together that allowed you to win is Obama, because he had college-educated white liberals, young voters, and black voters at a really high percentage. And so as they think about how a very progressive Democrat could win the Democratic nomination, it is going to look a lot more like what – angie nixon did in florida than abdul al-sayed did in michigan or aoc does in new york or anything like that it also reminded me of i mean in florida in 2018 that is basically how andrew gillum running against desantis came so close to winning that state he didn't win it but um he was a more progressive candidate did really really well with black voters college educated voters younger voters and that was enough to what was it like 18 000 votes something yeah it's but i think and it's how he beat gwen graham in the right in the primary and the primary it does seem like nixon will have um quite a bit of an uphill climb we should say uh to to win the general election they uh you know some of the forecasters moved it from one of them moved it from i think uh likely republican to safe republican um and just because i think that now i will say i i've seen her now do a couple of interviews post-race.

32:31She's very good. She's very good. Very good. And if you did not, like, if they did not report that she was DSA, you would never guess that she was DSA. Yeah, she is a work, true. This is a lot of, sometimes the DSA candidates, not all of them, but some of them have sort of the, I don't, this is not a fair thing, but this was used to describe Francesca Hong with the faculty lounge problem, right? Where how they talk about things. And That's not actually a fair characterization of Francesca Hong's life, who worked herself up as a restaurant owner and a chef. Angie Nixon is working class. She is a longtime champion of working class, but she's a community organizer.

33:11When she communicates, she communicates like a community organizer, not like some sort of academic who's studying these problems. She's someone who is deeply embedded in trying to actually solve the problems that working class families are dealing with. Well, and also she was very, I mean, so I think Willie Geis asked her, so do you support abolishing prisons? She's like, no, no, I don't support abolishing prisons. I support getting rid of for-profit prisons that are being like run horribly and costing us a lot of money and stuff. But like it was just she had all the answers. It was very good.

33:39I just so. The challenge here is if there is one state in the country where the DSA label is a problem, in particular, it's Florida because so much of the Latino vote in that state has roots in Cuba and Venezuela. And the socialism attacks hit much harder there. It's one of the things that has moved Florida to the right in recent years. And again, it's just it's a gigantic state. So it's super expensive. And it's not the kind of state where you can say, all right, well, you know, look beyond the label and actually come meet me, you know, because it's just it's too big for that. So that's why it's going to be tough.

34:17Anyway, so Vindman wasn't the only quote unquote resistance figure to lose this cycle. Dan Goldman, lead majority counsel during Trump's 2019 impeachment. Representative Diana DeGette, a 2021 House impeachment manager, both lost their primaries to left wing challengers. Harry Dunn, Capitol Police officer on January 6th, lost his bid for a house seat in Maryland. George Conway, Trump critic, co-founder of the Lincoln Project, Bulwark, came in fifth with just 6 % of the vote in the Democratic primary to replace Jerry Nadler. So this has spawned a lot of resistance's overtakes. What do you think about those takes?

34:59Do these losses suggest a real trend to you or is the take machine trying a bit too hard here? I mean, the tank machine, by definition, is always trying a bit too hard. Fair, fair. But there is something real here. And it actually should not be that surprising. The Trump era began 11 years ago when he started running. Yeah. He won election a decade ago. It's been a very long time. And that decade actually feels longer than an actual 10 years because of the pandemic. And here we are. We are struggling to remember, and people who covered it every day, what happened in Trump's impeachment in 2019.

35:33because it really feels like 100 years ago. Ukraine, perfect call. Zelensky was involved, but it was before the war. Yes, but we didn't even know Zelensky like we know him now. He wasn't even our hero. He was just a guy. He's just a comedian who got a job. And so that's all old and feels like in the past. I think that what has changed is that, and this is a good thing for Democrats, is we do not identify ourselves entirely as in opposition to Trump. And so standing up and fighting Trump is necessary in a Democratic primary politically, but it's insufficient. You have to be fighting for something bigger than that.

36:10You have to find you as someone who's actually fighting to solve these big problems that I think people over the last year or so have realized are more than just Trump. Like it's a rigged economy. It's people can't get health care. And Trump has contributed to that. And he's certainly not helping it. But if you're simply focused on Trump, that's a problem. The other thing that I think defined a lot of these resistance 1.0 characters is they are institutionalists by nature, right? We were going to bring him down through Robert Mueller. We're going to bring him down through impeachment. And that stuff, I think, feels dated here and doesn't really – it doesn't have this hit in the same way it did before.

36:44So those folks are sometimes naturally out of touch with what's going on. But then when you look at each of these individual races, it really wasn't about them being resistance figures. Dan Goldman went down because of a huge dispute over Israel. George Conway was a Republican with relatively low name ID running against a really stacked field of local elected officials like Michael Lasher and Alex Boris. That was my problem with this is I just don't think any of the dots connect. Like, yes, what they have in common is they all are, you could call them all resistance figures, but every single race was different for different reasons.

37:20I think what's known was how in each of the races, Trump really wasn't that big a deal. He wasn't the dominant figure in the conversation, which wasn't good for the people who became famous for standing up to Trump. Well, and it's also not just how long we've been doing this, which is a long time. Which is a long time. But it's what is coming next, which is like we are almost at the end of the Trump era. Yeah, you can see the light. Right. And so if you're I mean, and this is going to be especially true in the 2028 primaries, but like all of those Democratic candidates that can run for president, why would they talk that much about Trump?

37:55They'll probably talk about how they're going to fix the damage that Trump has done. But like there it's it's sort of like we dealt with this in the campaign in 2007, 2008. It's very similar where there was a lot of Bush bashing, obviously. But at some point in that primary, I remember Obama was like, the real question is, like, we know that George Bush isn't coming back as president. And the question is, what's next? Like, what's next for the country and where are we going to go and what's going to happen? And like, that's where all these Democratic candidates are going to have to pivot very soon after the midterms.

38:28And then we won the nomination and we ran approximately$80 million of ads with a video of John McCain getting into a golf cart with George W. Bush. Well, that'll be and that will be the campaign against J.D. Vance. Yes. Yes, there will be. Or if Marco Rubio somehow makes it out or anyone – if anyone is the nominee connected to the Trump administration, yes. They're going to be in a lot of ads. Then that six months or seven months or whatever the campaign, that will all be about Donald Trump. And then – but in terms of a primary and what you're going to do for the country, it's beyond Trump at that point.

38:58So I think that's something to keep in mind for people.

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41:50Let's turn to Alaska. Former Democratic Congresswoman Mary Peltola was the top vote getter in the state's jungle primary on Tuesday, where she outperformed Republican Dan Sullivan by 5.4 points with 98 percent of the vote reported. Alaska, unsurprisingly, takes a while to count. There's still some few rural areas coming in. The top four vote getters now advance to the November runoff election, which is expected to include the other Dan Sullivan, Dan J. Sullivan Jr., a retired school teacher who Republicans maintain entered the election to sabotage the nominee Dan S. Sullivan and whose candidacy is now being probed by Trump's DOJ, who got a grand jury to subpoena witnesses connected to the campaign.

42:32uh before we get to that let's start with paul tola's results what did you make of um her outperforming the real dan sullivan and what it may or may not portend for uh the general election which will happen in a couple months it was certainly a good sign because she won by five points even if you took out if you gave all of the fake dan sullivan's votes to the real dan sullivan she still wins by two and a half points so that is good now so it's a positive sign now Now, it's worth just noting that about 133 ,000 people, I think, voted in this primary. The last Senate race had twice that in 2022 when Murkowski was up.

43:06So it'll probably be even more this time because this will be a more competitive race. So this is only about half the electorate in Alaska voting. But look, a five-point lead or a very Republican is safe. Trump won by 13 points is a great place to be in August of the election year. What about Dan J. Sullivan? Do you think he's on the ballot come November or is the DOJ going to intimidate him off the ballot? I know there was already a ruling that he could be on the ballot from, I believe, the state Supreme Court. I think they are going to try to intimidate him and get him off the ballot. Like, why else would they be doing this?

43:38They think if this is a very, very close race, then Dan J. Sullivan could be very bad for Dan S. Sullivan, if I think he did that correctly. You did. But he seems pretty committed to his goal of being senator. And confusing people. I think it's cool. His goal, he wants to send people to Alaska, John. Of course. Of course. Yeah. Don't make don't make the DOJ's case for them for them. I don't want to get a subpoena. I know nothing. You're going to end up in an ad. This is the first I've heard about this. First I've heard about this Dan Sullivan character. I don't know. I'm going to look into it.

44:09Maybe he's a maybe he's going to be a great leader for Alaska. Who knows? anyway that's Alaska on the other side of the country in South Carolina Congressman Ralph Norman and Darlene Graham will face off in next week's runoff election to decide which of them will replace Senator Lindsey Graham on the November ballot Darlene who's currently serving out the remainder of her brother's term was the top vote getter in the first round of the primary and has Donald Trump's endorsement he will be campaigning for her in the state on Friday apparently but during her one and only debate with Norman this week.

44:42She gave one hell of an answer to a question about foreign policy. Let's listen. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the question? Are Taiwan and the South China Sea national security issues for the United States? And if so, why or how? I'm just going to be honest here. I'm not on national security that I'm not that informed on national security. So. But I do support the military. My brother was in the Air Force for 33 years. So I will do everything I can to support the military. My dad was in the Army. I'm not a polished politician up here. National security is not my thing, not my area of expertise, but I do support the military.

45:25In case I didn't make it clear the first time, I will say a second time that national security is not my thing. And just to be extra clear, I'll say one more time, I am not an expert on national security. Just to make sure you have all the context you need for the ad and that you don't have to infer anything. Rough, Dan. Rough. Well, right there is exactly why you don't pick people who had no qualifications to be senator just because they're blood relatives of the previous senator. Yeah. I kind of hope she wins the primary. She wins the general. She wins the special. I think – no, what I'm saying is obviously South Carolina is a long shot here.

46:09I do think that Annie Andrews is the Democrat running on the Democratic side. And before Lindsey Graham passed away, there were polls that had her within a couple of points. She has raised a lot of money. Again, still a huge long shot. But I think she probably at this point, I think it's an easier race. I think she has a better chance against Darlene Graham than she does Ralph Norman, even though Ralph Norman is like Freedom Caucus crazy. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's right. Yeah, 100 percent that this is we just randomly pass the Senate seat along like it's the the Iron Throne to the next person, regardless of how unqualified they are.

46:44Yes, I think that like once again, hard state. We have been quite burned by summer polls in South Carolina Senate races before. For sure. For sure. Look, in a very Democratic year with a very, very bad candidate and a good Democratic candidate, Andy Andrews, anything is is potentially on the table. It'll also be interesting to see, you know, Trump's endorsement going to campaign for her. Does that like Trump has now had a couple of endorsements that haven't gone well, including Tuesday night. He lost three on Tuesday night. Three on Tuesday night. And this will be a pretty high profile if she goes down.

47:18This is going to be the real to tell the people who can't – within the Democratic Party can pass the marshmallow test because the short-term one marshmallow benefit is we all get to dunk on Trump next Wednesday if she loses. But then they definitely get the Senate seat. If we can delay gratification to November, we might have a shot at an extra Senate seat. Yeah. Everyone practiced being like, oh, Trump's endorsement still matters. That Donald Trump, his grip on the party is still strong. Everyone just practice that for a little bit. All right. So one issue that does seem to be panicking Republican campaigns all across the country right now is data centers.

47:54Earlier this week, Axios reported that the NRSC, the Republican Senate campaign arm, sent a memo to AI companies warning them that voters' opinions on data centers may lose them the Ohio Senate race. The memo details how Sherrod Brown has made opposition to data centers a, quote, centerpiece of his campaign and warns the companies that if Republican nominee John Husted loses, quote, data centers will get the blame. Politicians across the country will take notice and they will not go near the next one. The NRSC goes on to ask the companies to, quote, fix how Ohioans see data centers, I guess by not having them, though they don't say that.

48:31More broadly, data center backlash has forced elected officials and candidates in both parties to recalibrate their messaging. For example, the Republican in Wisconsin's gubernatorial race, Tom Tiffany, is running ads now calling his opponent data center David Crowley. First of all, what do you think of the NRSC strategy of pleading with AI companies on this one? What do you think they're up to there? Well, the text is we're pleading with the AI companies to do a better job of PR for data centers. The subtext is we want the AI companies through their leading the future super PAC that has$120 million or so in the bank to spend money to help make sure that John Husted wins.

49:12Because if John Husted loses, everyone will read that as being a loss due entirely to data centers. And it'll be very, very bad for the industry's ability to build data centers around the country. Because then every Democrat, every Republican will be anti-data center. So it is just basically a fundraising ask to get the super PACs to come in here and help Houston. And I'm just going to throw out a guess here. But if the super PACs do come in and help Houston, I wonder if they will go the route of APAC and maybe not run ads trying to make data centers more appealing and defending data centers, but perhaps run ads against Sherrod Brown on unrelated topics that they think they have a better political argument on, because that seems to be what super PACs do these days.

49:53If you are a super PAC representing a very, very unpopular interest group, then yes, that's what you're going to do. Yeah. So here's how Sherrod is talking about data centers and his opponent. Ohio's electric grid. Big corporations treat it like a game, gobbling up energy to feed their data centers. No matter how much it raises our prices, it's the latest way they've rigged the system, costing the average Ohioan thousands of dollars with prices still going up. I'm Sherrod Brown. I'll require the data centers pay the full cost of their electricity, not you. They don't get to play games with your energy bill.

50:31That's why I approve this message. What do you think of that ad? What do you think of this debate in general, which is now popping up in, I mean, we mentioned Ohio and Wisconsin, but it's happening in races all across the country, gubernatorial races, House races, Senate races. It's everywhere. Just as an organic plug, it makes it organic if I say it, that next week on Monday, we're going to have a whole special on data center ads that Brian Tyler Cohen and I did on the Crooked YouTube channel. So people should check that out. Part of our Political Experts React series. But this is, you're right, this is happening everywhere.

51:05It's a huge issue in Texas where Gina Inohosa and Greg Abbott are competing to see who could be the most anti-data center. She has an incredible ad that Brian and I watched that is where she asks a AI chatbot about why electricity prices are so high, what's happening at data centers. Just today in Michigan, Mike Rogers came out for a one-year moratorium on data centers. Josh Shapiro, who had been very pro-data center, is now anti-data center. He has an attack ad up today criticizing his opponent for being pro-data center. This is, I think, potentially the signature issue of this election for several reasons.

51:40One, it galvanizes Democrats and Republicans. The polling in here is two-thirds don't want a data center in their community. Two-thirds think the data centers are being built too fast. People are very concerned about the impact of AI. And data centers represent several things in one fell swoop for people. Fear about AI. Fear about an economy that's leaving them behind. A lack of control with these big tech overlords who are making decisions for their lives. a crooked system where they're all giving money to politicians and to Trump and building ballrooms so that they can do whatever they want.

52:17And most importantly, affordability, because the states where the data center issue is the biggest, Texas and Maine in particular, it's around where they have the highest electricity and utility prices. And so this is like, you're going to see every politician is going to, it's going to be very hard for defining if it's going to be pro data center, other than Donald Trump, who's out there every day talking about why data centers are great. And it's like just an incredible contrast for Democrats because Mike Rogers can be formatorium. Tom Tiffany can sort of lie about his position. But at the end of the day, they are Trump Republicans and Trump wants to build a data center on every corner in America.

52:52Democrats have had a couple of different positions on those different Democratic candidates. There is the moratorium. We want just a moratorium on data centers, no data centers. And then there is – and I think this is where Tom Tiffany thought he had an opening with David Crowley and Josh Shapiro similarly with his executive order that he just signed sort of has this position which is no data centers unless all of these conditions are met. And so I think in Pennsylvania now, you can't even get a permit from the state for a data center unless it is approved by the local community. And also they have to pay for all of their own costs, all of the higher electricity rates.

53:39It gets into the weeds here. I went down a rabbit hole on this. You can't have them pay for all of the potential increases in electricity because it's spread across multiple states, right, which is a problem. But there's a big part of the power generation and the electricity that they can pay for to hold rate payers, to hold everyone else harmless on this, right? So that you don't have higher rates because of this. There's also like they can do stuff about the water issues and the energy issues. And then you can, as opposed to some states that have been giving tax breaks to data centers, which seems crazy to me now.

54:15There's states like Virginia and there's a big story about Loudoun County where there's more data centers than anywhere else. which basically the data centers have to pay so much in tax revenue to the community where they're in, that these communities now, like Loudoun County, are becoming like you're getting all these property tax cuts and you're building these great schools and giving teachers raises. And so it's like you can set out all these conditions for data centers that could help a community and could still get them built. Or you could say no moratorium. That's it. But do you think that a Democrat with a position like Shapiro, like David Crowley, do you think that's still a politically good position to have and still gives you the contrast you need against Republicans?

54:59I think it is a moratorium is a much cleaner position. And I think the way to think about a moratorium is it is not an argument that we'll never build data centers again. It's that if you want to build a data center, you have to negotiate with the local community. And I'm cribbing from another organic plug, a very excellent conversation you had with Fashik here on offline about politics in general. But you dug deep on data centers because More Perfect Union, his organization, has done a lot of work here. The point of the moratorium says, our view is no data center. If you want to build a data center, you're going to have to come to us and you're going to have to meet our demands.

55:37And here is what our demands are. And what's important is the local community. This is why the tax incentives are so stupid. is the local communities have the leverage here. These companies are desperately, desperately, desperately to trying to get the data. These communities are desperately, desperately, desperately need these data centers to continue building their large language models to do their work. And so they need it. And if we don't get data centers, they're fucked. And so to use that to make decisions about where it is, how much they're going to pay, what standards are going to be in place, How are they going to protect the community from bad – Harmful environmental impacts.

56:18Harmful environmental impacts, the increased costs, all of those things. Because there are going to be – this was Crowley's point when I talked about this, which is not – it was not delivered in the most politically savvy way because of the politics here. But there are communities in Wisconsin and other places that are in rural areas that are looking for an economic engine of some kind. And so they're open to this idea. And what the AI companies were doing before. Because originally I was like, but they don't even create that many jobs. Like there's jobs building the data center and then there's like a couple security guards.

56:52You know, like that's exaggeration. But like they don't create a ton of jobs. But the revenue that they could potentially provide that is like a constant stream of a fuckload of revenue to a community, like that lets the community do quite a bit of good. And previously, I think the AI companies were taking advantage of these communities. And now the communities have gotten organized. They are pushing back. They're getting support from leaders like Shapiro or Tony Evers or others to be able to go into these negotiations and come out ahead and then make an honest decision. Is this the right thing for our community based on our economic needs, our environmental concerns?

57:30But at least they have a fighting chance against these companies instead of just them just essentially bribing the local council and moving in and getting it done before anyone even has a chance to blink. I totally agree with you, though, that and I think it's a really smart way to to think about it, which is it is much easier and cleaner and more accessible to say, like, yes, I want a data center moratorium. And then when someone says, oh, no data center built forever, then you're like, no, a moratorium unless a whole bunch of conditions are met. And then you can, you know, or unless you negotiate with the local community and everyone's conditions are met in the local community where it's going to have the biggest impact, you know, as opposed to saying like, well, I kind of like data centers, but I need this, that and the other thing.

58:13Like just for for political communication here, I do think it's easier to just talk about a moratorium. OK, up next, you will hear Lovett's interview with Iowa's Democratic Senate nominee, Josh Turek.

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1:00:21Apple Vacations or through your travel advisor.

1:00:35So I'd love to talk to you about your endorsement from Barack Obama, which you announced last month with a video. Let's just start with a clip.

1:00:48Boggin. Who's got next? I got it. You ready for me, Josh? I'm ready. Let's go. We playing horse or what? We're playing Iowa. Tell me how things are going out there. Everywhere we go, urban areas, rural areas, people are ready for change. Oh, I thought I had that one. That's Iowa right there, buddy. A lot of people have heard me say this. Of all the things I've done in politics, Iowa was my favorite thing. There was just a magic about regular folks showing up in gyms. Like this? Like this. And just talking out. How do we move our state forward? How do we move the country forward? I'll tell you what, people all across Iowa are saying that they're feeling that hope, that optimism for the first time in a long time.

1:01:41That's my sense. That's what I think is going to happen. First of all, just how did that video come together? And what was it like actually shooting it on that day? Sure. It came together. I was in Chicago and I ended up meeting with David Axelrod through a colleague of mine in the Iowa legislature and sat down, was trying to convince him on myself, on Iowa, that this thing is absolutely winnable. We could be seat number 51 in the US Senate. And when we finished, he texted me and said, look, I'd love to be helpful however I can. I said, I've got this crazy idea where we've been including basketball so much and playing Iowa with people going to the YMCA in Des Moines.

1:02:25And I said, I've got this crazy idea where all I need is President Obama just raise his hand five times, just five shots. And he said, well, let me see what I can do. And 40 hours later, text me back and said, I think he's interested. I think this thing is going to happen and came together and incredible. I mean, my political hero, it was a surreal moment as I'm shooting and I'm looking over and I'm like, oh my God, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm playing horse against, or as we're calling it, Iowa against president Obama. And honestly, a great shooter, really, really good shooter. I will say my first reaction when I saw the ad was, wow, I am shocked that he agreed to film an ad that is about him missing shots and ultimately losing the game.

1:03:13He must really want, like he must really want to do this because he's competitive. And this is like, oh, they're going to show you winning and you're going to show the times where he's like missing shots. Like that must have, he must've been a little reluctant. Well, we didn't know who was going to win. No, I'm not suggesting it was a rigged game. I'm not suggesting that, but he still obviously was going to be, he was going to be shown missing. Yeah. We came out, here's what I'll say. He came out, he missed his first shot or two. I gave him a letter, I. He gave me a letter, I, because I'm having one of those surreal moments of looking over like, oh my God, I'm playing President Obama.

1:03:49I ended up beating him I-O-W-A to I, but he was talking trash to me the entire game. He's like, look, I'm not going to let you win. I said, Mr. President, with all due respect, I'm certainly not going to let you win. I have a reputation here. I'm a two-time gold medalist. I'm a four-time Paralympian. I'll never hear the end of it if I let you beat me. You're a pro. He's got to go down. That's right. So on the other hand, I saw a post recently. So Trump said that you are lazy. Donald Trump has accused you of being lazy. Now, when you were recuperating from 21 surgeries or being bullied by other kids or training for the Paralympics or being cut six times and then winning multiple gold medals or dragging your own wheelchair up the stairs to canvas for votes, do you ever stop to think about how much further you could go in life if you weren't such a lazy piece of shit?

1:04:43I found that one fascinating because so much of my story is overcoming adversity. As you said, I grew up in a working class family, working class community where we went to the Goodwill for clothes, shared clothes, 21 surgeries by the age of 12. I had my first surgery at one day old. And then, as you said, I mean, I was cut six straight years from the national team. I kept coming back year after year after year saying, eventually I'm going to get good enough. You can ask any one of my national team teammates. I was absolutely one of the hardest workers. and to win. I represent the reddest district that's represented by a Democrat in the Iowa legislature.

1:05:20The two communities I represent, Trump won Carter Lake by 18 points and won Council Bluffs by 10 points. I was able to win by 6%. And I went out every single day, rain or shine, hot or cold, dragging my wheelchair upstairs to have conversations with independents and Republicans because the math just didn't work any other way. And so I almost got a chuckle out of saying, you're lazy. It's like, if nothing else, I'm an unbelievably hard worker. And truthfully, I'm really proud of my time in the Iowa legislature. When I first joined the legislature, I was told outright, you'll never get a subcommittee.

1:05:55You'll never get a committee. You'll certainly never get anything signed by the governor. And I said, I refuse. I'm the first permanently physically disabled member of the Iowa legislature. I'm like, you can teach a monkey to come up here and push the red button over and over. I've got to get stuff done. And so I did the hard work behind the scenes that nobody will ever hear about, building relationships, finding stretch fellows where we can disagree on 90 % of policy, but we're going to agree on this one thing that's going to really help people. And I was able to be one of the most effective and one of the most bipartisan members of the Iowa legislature.

1:06:28I think that's what people want. Yeah, you recently put on an ad talking about your bipartisan record, including your willingness to work with Trump if you're elected to the Senate. I just want to understand the voters you're trying to reach. And when I see that ad, I think, oh, there's a hump you're trying to get people over. There's a bunch of people out there that may be dissatisfied with the state of things in Iowa and the country, but they're a little bit uncomfortable with the idea of voting for a Democrat. And I'm just curious what you're trying to say to those people and what it's like being out talking to those kinds of voters.

1:06:58I believe to my core that more than Republican versus Democrat, I think particularly in Iowa, I think what people want is they want a representative that is going to do the hard work behind the scenes. That what they want is they want a representative that is going to work to solve people's problems through policy, but through bipartisan policy. And so what I want them to understand about me is I'm not an overt tribalist. I'm a common sense, pray populist. So my political North Star is always what's best for Iowa, what's best for Iowans, what's best for the middle class, what is best for our workers.

1:07:36and I think we've got to get back to this country over party mentality. And so I say, I agree with President Trump that we shouldn't have tax on tips or overtime or that we need to drive private equity out of housing. Fight like hell where and when we need to, but also be willing to do the work behind the scenes to provide solutions to people's problems because I think that's what Iowans demand. And so I think that's the purpose of that. So you recently stopped by the Iowa Speedway to talk to voters. Part of what politics is today is the fight on the ground to break through the assumptions people have based on what they're seeing on Fox News, based on what they're seeing on social media, including just getting people to kind of not adopt the tone of what politics has on the Internet.

1:08:33And I'm just curious what it's like being on the trail in Iowa, in red places, at a NASCAR event where there's going to be a lot of people that are not just independents or moderates or maybe Republicans who are unhappy with Trump, but true diehards for Trump. And if you've had any interesting conversations with some of those people on the campaign trail. It's been great. My favorite thing about doing this is being – I love people. I love being able to get out there, talk to people, hear their stories, hear what they're going through. And then when you're willing to listen to people is when you can actually think about, well, here's a solution that we could provide to them through policy.

1:09:10I love being able to get all over the state to a state that I was born in, raised in. We've got 99 counties. It's a beautiful state. Really, really good people. There truly is an Iowa nice. I've been all over the country, all over the world. There is a uniqueness to the people of Iowa. But I think that modern politics, the coin of the realm now, is meeting people about politics in an apolitical fashion. So that's why the Obama video, we include so much basketball. Bring him in with the basketball, then talk to him about politics. I did RAGBRAI, the Des Moines Register's great annual bike ride across Iowa.

1:09:46I did day one. I did 60 miles, the hottest day, the hilliest day, the humidest day. But there was 40 ,000 riders out there being able to talk to people, engage with them. And the same with NASCAR. So part of this for me is I think that a mistake that too many Democrats have made over the last decade in my state is they have thought about this math problem incorrectly. They thought we've just got to maximize turnout in the urban areas, Polk County, Johnson County. But ultimately, we're a rural state. And so you've got to be willing to go into the lion's den. You got to be willing to go into all 99 counties, every one of these midsize small communities and go in and talk to them.

1:10:27And what I've learned representing a really red district is you won't win every single one of them over, but you will win enough to trim the margins. And every one of those Republicans that we went over is a double vote. One out of her column and one of my column. But what's it? I'm really actually, I'm OK. Those are the people you're getting. And those are the people you want to get to win this race. But Iowa is a state that sent Tom Harkin to the Senate for 30 years. Barack Obama won it twice. It then shifted to the right and swung very hard to Trump, right? What are you hearing from the people, like, in terms of the long road of kind of getting people to see either Democrats in a different way or politics in a different way?

1:11:16I'm curious about what those conversations are like with the people you're not going to get, right? Like you're talking to people, you're not winning them all over. What are those conversations like? What are they missing, right? You're running against somebody that voted to cut healthcare in Iowa to fund the war in Iran. I mean, it's deeply unpopular, but there are people that are going to be upset about that, but still be unable to vote for you. And I'm curious what that is like. I've had a handful of conversations even with some Republicans when I was on RAGBRAI. And they said, you know, you don't have my vote, but I've got a whole lot of respect for you.

1:11:50And certainly I appreciate that. But what I'll tell you is, regardless of where I am in the state of Iowa, urban areas, rural areas, I keep hearing the exact same story, which is Iowans are struggling just to keep food on the table, a roof above their head, pay their electric bill. And now with this war in Iran, be able to put gas in their tank. I think that the – a couple of things. Iowa is, we basically hit the bottom. We're one of three states already seeing our economy contract. We're basically dead last for every healthcare metric. Just since Ashley Henson's been elected, 842 healthcare entities have closed in Iowa.

1:12:28And she's voting for cuts to healthcare. I mean, 110 ,000 Iowans are going to lose their healthcare outright because of her votes. 119 ,000 Iowans seeing their healthcare premiums double or triple or horror stories like I've heard quadruple. uh we're we're a state that we were basically the gold standard in public education we've precipitously dropped down from the gold standard now down to the to the bottom half because of giving private schools public money we've got a water quality crisis that's not being addressed we've got a cancer crisis we're the basically the only state with a growing cancer rate second highest rates behind kentucky and now we lead the nation in farm foreclosures largely driven by the tariffs.

1:13:07But also, I think this war in Iran, which Ashley Henson has voted in favor of continuing six times, four times in favor of the tariffs, it has disproportionately hurt Iowa. We've lost three Iowans in the conflict. And then you're looking at this driving up fuel cost, fertilizer cost, and diesel cost, which is disproportionately hurting the farm communities. This is a state that is really hurting, that is ready for change. Everywhere that we're going, people are saying to me, this is not the Iowa I know. This is not the state that I grew up in. We need change both at the state level and the federal level.

1:13:41And I think that a common sense prairie populace like myself is where they're willing to park their votes, but it's a state that's ready for change. So your opponent, yes, votes for the big, beautiful bill, votes to send more money to the Pentagon, additional funding for the war in Iran. also really embraced and just a lot of Republicans kind of held their nose and thought Doge was kind of OK. They were unsure where to. She's a huge fan of Doge, part of the Doge caucus. It seems like there's that just seems like bad politics to me, kind of unabashedly so. Is it just about getting Elon Musk to drop money in the state?

1:14:24Is she like what is the What is your argument against Ashley Hinson? And why is it that this is somebody running for the Senate in Iowa who seems to be not really even worried about her past positions in the race? It's confusing. She comes out when she announces that she's going to run for the U.S. Senate. She says, I want to be Donald Trump's best ally in the U.S. Senate. She says nothing about Iowa, nothing about Iowans, nothing about the middle class, a state that is hurting, farm economy that's collapsing, cancer rates, etc. Yeah, she has voted for cuts to health care, to food assistance, just to give tax breaks to billionaires.

1:15:04It's been a level of essentially naked corruption with her. She is now up to 10 times more wealthy than when she entered Congress just six years ago, taking$50 ,000 of taxpayer money to give herself a luxury D.C. apartment. I think the calculus was she looks at a state that Trump carries by 12 points. and she says all i need to do is just get trump voters to turn out and and vote for me and and i'm just going to have a cakewalk to the to the united states senate but this is a fundamentally different state and uh and i don't think she was prepared uh for a common sense prairie populace like myself with proven results of being able to win over independence and moderate republicans and we're we're getting big turnouts particularly in the rural areas of uh you know 30 of iowa voters are independents.

1:15:55And so these are the kingmakers. But we're also getting a lot of card-carrying Republicans that have said, vote for Trump, vote for Ernst, vote for Grassley, even vote for Henson. And enough's enough. We need change. We need change at the state level and the federal level. And I think this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity that we've got in Iowa to not just change the state, but in Trump's first midterm in Iowa, we won three of the four congressional races. We've got an amazing opportunity here to change the country, just in Iowa. And I think we're going to come November, we're going to do something really special.

1:16:26It seems like part of what the Republicans are counting on is that not only is this a Trump state, but that the Democratic brand is so tarnished that they can overwhelm the ways in which you are unique as a candidate to try to kind of ride on the idea that like, oh, people just generally find Democrats, I don't know, annoying, whatever it might be. How much is being just being a Democrat a hindrance to you? And what would you like the Democratic, like if you asked Iowans or the people you're trying to reach, like, what does the Democratic Party mean to you? What would you like it to be in people's minds?

1:17:03The reason why I'm a Democrat and what the Democratic Party means to me is because I think at its essence, it's fighting for the little guy. And so I'm always reminded of a quote from JFK where it's, you know, why do you align politically the way that you do because I believe in looking forward, not back, because I care about people's wages, their jobs, their health care, their schools, their civil rights. I think that's the essence of why I'm a Democrat. And I think that at our best, that's really who we are and what we stand for. I think that going forward, especially if we're going to win in prairie states like Iowa, it has to be really clear that we are the party of the people, party of the middle class, party of the workers.

1:17:45That's why I define myself as a common sense prairie populist. and uh and and that's certainly the the way forward we can't be the lesser of two evils we can't just be a corporate version uh we've got to go out there with with really really clear ideas and the other thing that i say i am just absolutely laser focused on cost corruption kitchen table issues that's what this election's about the issues that apply to 3.2 million iowans so that's a livable wage affordable housing affordable health care affordable pharmaceuticals, drinkable water, addressing the cancer rates, functioning public schools, infrastructure, and addressing corruption.

1:18:21And that's a corruption in terms of the need for campaign finance reform. But that's also going out there and talking about the need for ethics reforms, term limits, banning members of Congress from owning and trading stocks because people like my opponent, Ashley Henson, shouldn't be going up to DC and in six years becoming 10 times more wealthy. Or putting a provision in place where I believe that every single member of Congress should be forced to have at least one annual town hall because i believe that members of congress should be accountable to their constituents to the people not just to the billionaires the large corporations the donors and the lobbyists that's what i'm focused on and that message is clearly resonating with iowans how much money is coming in to the state from outside groups like how much you worried about that?

1:19:09And what can people listening do to kind of help right now? If they want to see us be able to win this US Senate race, if they care about the country, they care about addressing corruption, if they want to have somebody that's going to be in there fighting for the people, not just for the billionaires and large corporations, certainly join us. Go to Turek4Iowa.com and chip in a few dollars because I'm not taking any corporate PAC money in this. Yeah, Ashley Henson, she's sitting on already$50 million between all the PACs and the super PAC money. The state's being flooded with it because we've got congressional races and attorney general race that's going to be competitive, a competitive gubernatorial race and the Senate race.

1:19:54And it's funny, I was just with my parents the other day and my mom gave me a stack of mailers that she had received. And it's just out of state, super PAC, super PAC, super PAC. So the money is there, but this is a real chance for us to have, to win this and be able to change the state and change the country and have a voice in the United States Senate from Iowa, like what we had for so long. For 30 years, we had Senator Tom Harkin, my political hero, the father of the American with Disabilities Act. And I believe that this is our opportunity to have someone in the U.S. Senate that's going to be fighting for the people, fighting for Iowa and Iowans and fighting for social and economic justice.

1:20:33And these social safety nets have allowed so many of us to be successful, like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. And not just like what Ashley Hinson has done, just enriched herself and just looked out for the haves, for the billionaires and the large corporations. That's the opportunity that we've got this year in Iowa. So I married a Minnesotan. And so I have married into the best state fair in the country, but I would love to hear why the Iowa State Fair is second best. The Iowa State Fair is incredible. and have you been to the Iowa State Fair? No, I've only been to the Minnesota State Fair.

1:21:03Okay, well then you've got to come to ours before you make a final determination. But I know that people in Minnesota will say, well, we get a few more people in the door than Iowa. So ours is better. Iowa State Fair is absolutely amazing. You've got animals from every part of the state. So many unique people, unbelievable amounts of crazy food. I mean, I was eating a pickled pizza and deep fried Oreos. I mean, hot dogs, corn dogs. I had a corn dog with peanut butter and jelly on it, which honestly, pretty decent. And then you've got all these games and just people from all over the state. And it's a great energy.

1:21:43I did my Iowa soapbox there. And look, there were some people there with signs that were clearly not in favor of me, but they were respectful. And afterwards, I heard from a lot of people who said, look, Josh, I'm an independent. I didn't think I was going to vote for you, but I like what you said. I like who you are. I like what you stand for. You got my vote coming November. Here are some of the current items that you can get at the Iowa State Fair. You can get the, these are all on a stick. Bacon, cheeseburger, corn dog, hot Cheeto, mozzarella, corn dog, rattlesnake, corn dog, jumbo plumper, footlong, corn, hot dog, dilly dog.

1:22:17What's a dilly dog? I don't know what a dilly dog is. Chicken, bacon, ranch, waffle on a stick. Okay. Star spangled swine. that's why not that's pork belly with an apple chipotle rub bacon pecan pie on a stick and finally and this is i found mystifying something called yummy thing on a stick no other information provided are you aware of what the yummy thing is and what the thing we'd be eating would be i am not but uh i will certainly be back there again a handful of times and so i will definitely try the yummy thing on a stick but yeah anything on a stick and anything that can be deep fried, we've got it there at the Iowa State Fair.

1:22:56It really is. It's just absolutely incredible. I've loved it. And I was also able to clean them out of a few stuffed animals that I ended up giving to my wife with the shooting games, which I was proud of. Coming like a ringer. I will say a little disappointing to see that acai bowls and caprese salad on a stick made it onto the venue. I feel like the socialists must be stopped. but shrimp corn dog was listed as a health food, which I think is actually kind of makes me, that makes me feel America is going to be okay. Yeah. I did want to ask, you talked about being bullied as a kid. Have any of the people that, to the point where you almost, or you did leave school or you almost left school?

1:23:42Yeah, in sixth grade, I left public school and went to a small private school that my aunt was running. We only had a handful of kids in there, eight, nine kids. And then I went back and finished public school. I went back for high school. Have you ever heard from any of the kids that bullied you? Have you ever seen them again now that you've kind of risen? I've run into a handful of them. Look, it's tough growing up disabled. It's tough growing up in the kind of economic situation that I grew up in. I have run into a few of them. I don't hold it against them. You know, you're young, you're a kid.

1:24:21We all make mistakes when we're that young. They were probably going through a lot themselves. But I will say this. I certainly would never want to go through again what I went through. I mean, the 21 surgeries by the age of 12. I spent a lot of time up at Shriners Hospital by myself. You know, full body cast. You can imagine a full body cast as a kid in the summer heat in Iowa with the humidity. And we didn't have air conditioning through the whole house. So you're taking a hanger just to try to itch yourself. So I went through some really, really tough times. But what I believe is those that come out of that sort of circumstance, I believe that it creates a mental strength and a character that can't be broken.

1:25:02And I think it has uniquely prepared me well for what this is. I say to people all the time, they'll say, Josh, thanks for running. Thanks for what you're doing. I know how hard this is. And I say, this is really, really difficult. In a life of hard things, including winning gold medals, this is harder than winning gold medals. But I say this is not the hardest thing that I've gone through. And the thing for me is because I have gone through the level of economic struggle and healthcare struggle, I have a different level of empathy and a different level of fight. And I think I really do believe to my core that is what is missing in DC.

1:25:34We've got 73 millionaires in DC, a lot of people that have come from privilege. You don't have a lot of people that have had to worry about missing a meal, keeping a roof above their head, or healthcare struggles. You know, like, oh, where's my direct care worker going to come from? Medicaid wait list, things like that. And this is what we're missing. And I know I have that fight, that fight for the people because I've gone through that. I've experienced that same struggle myself. Do you think having spina bifida puts you at an unfair disadvantage for dealing with spineless politicians?

1:26:05I've never heard that one before. It's a new one. You know, I'll say this, that there has been very little representation from the disabled population at every level of government. That's at the local, the state, and certainly at the federal. There are very few with congenital disabilities. You can imagine if you're blind or deaf, there's a communication barrier that's nearly impossible to overcome. Same with intellectual disabilities. So you're left with a small subset of individuals with physical disabilities. And I'm not up there to represent just the disabled population, but I do believe that my background and experience of everything that I've gone through makes me a much better legislator.

1:26:46And I think that's what's sorely missing in D.C. And I'm ready to go up there and fight for the people, the people of Iowan, the Iowa and Iowans, because everywhere I'm going, people are hurting and they're struggling. And I've felt that struggle. I've felt that pain. And we shouldn't be living in the richest country on earth. and this unbelievable level of wealth divide that we're experiencing right now, where billionaires and people like Elon Musk and the levels of what they're paying on their taxes and things like Social Security, et cetera, there's a whole lot that we can do. Josh Turek, thanks so much for your time.

1:27:21Good to talk to you. Thanks for having me. Good luck. I appreciate it. Go to Turek4Iowa.com, help us out. We really do. We've got a once-in-a-generation here opportunity to change the state and change the country. And with everyone's help, we're going to be able to do something really special come November. Thanks to Josh Turk for coming on. Dan will be back on Sunday. You're going to talk to Danielle Butterfield, who's the executive director of Priorities USA. That's the big Democratic super PAC. And I think you're going to talk to her all about how Democrats can get their message out to a lot of voters who just don't pay that close attention to politics.

1:27:53Yeah, Danielle's one of the smartest strategists in our party, and they have done deep research on how swing voters, the voters we need most, are actually getting their information. And she has a lot of really interesting thoughts about how to get them, get the message to them, and how we can begin to win the fight in the 2028 election right now. I'm really looking forward to that conversation. Everyone check it out, and have a good weekend. Bye, everyone. Pods of America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Faris Safari with Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill.

1:28:22Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hethcote, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Single. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

1:28:34If you missed some of your favorite Crooked Pods this week, don't worry. You can now catch up on the week's best moments on MS Now on Saturday nights. MS Now is streaming an episode of highlights from your favorite Crooked Pods, packing as much analysis, funny moments, and 100 % correct opinions into 40 minutes as humanly possible. Crooked on MS Now airs every Saturday at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific.

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