Episode 038: "You’re Pixelated as Usual"

9:29Jacqueline Novak:You're on period blood. Once a month, you get to write a couple things down. You have to save it all month and then be like, what was it? That's beautiful.

9:37Kate Berlant:Particularly because, wait, this is huge. Maybe that is what we're meant to do. The true writing.

9:42Jacqueline Novak:The true writing is. The blood on the walls. The blood on the wall of. You know a woman wrote the Bible. You know about this? A fucking broad wrote it. All the obsession with the Bible. This girl married that guy and this happened and they had. Some broad. Some clucking in the hen house is the Bible.

9:59Kate Berlant:Are you talking about Old Testament, New Testament?

10:03Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. The stuff of like so-and-so married so-and-so and they had so-and-so and the who-a-ha and the he-he-he.

10:09Kate Berlant:Not to be, you know, whatever, but I forgot. Who wrote down the Old Testament?

10:14Jacqueline Novak:All I know, and again, I know nothing.

10:16Kate Berlant:Because the new one is all disciples of Jesus, correct?

10:20Jacqueline Novak:Right, right. It's all secondhand, whatever. The old one was a freaking girl. Interesting. That's what some people are into. And I could go deeper, but I lack the knowledge. I'm going to have to write that one down. Look it up if you need to. Okay, so my aura ring has popped off.

10:36Kate Berlant:Wait, but 10 ,000 steps.

10:37Jacqueline Novak:Wouldn't it be horrible if research came out in, you know, however many years, right?

10:41Kate Berlant:That actually 11 ,000 was what was needed and anything below 11 ,000 had no effect.

10:48Jacqueline Novak:It was useless. They've actually found research points to a different trend that actually 10 ,000 is probably a little more than – if you're talking about just like what to – just for maintenance or something, they're saying that's probably actually less than 10 ,000 is still okay. Let's see what I've walked today. Oh, my God. I can see how people go crazy with this though and they like – With data? Yeah. Like because I'm just kind of dipping in.

11:11Kate Berlant:Yeah.

11:11Jacqueline Novak:But then guess what I also got? Wait. I have an at-home health system. I'm developing a health. So I've got the vibration plate. I've got the HiZoo.

11:19Kate Berlant:The HiZoo. And guess what I've added? Wait. Let me guess. Is it in the realm of health? I can't remember if I mentioned it. I can't remember if I mentioned it. Health. Wait. It is. Is it in the realm of, is it tech or is it analog? Somewhere in between.

11:32Jacqueline Novak:All right. But more analog. More analog. Instapot? Well, by the way, that did arrive two days ago. And I'm planning on trying it out tonight.

11:40Kate Berlant:That's huge. I just ordered an instant pot to the location I'm staying in because my new thing. I heard this. This is quintessential me, right? This is quintessential me logic. And to be clear, I mean good logic that others have ignored. I do not. And I'm not a fan of this whole like, you know, girl logic or whatever. Okay. You know what I mean? Girl math. Like whatever. This whole. Anyway, point is, point is, point is. I mean, I like spiritual logic. I like emotional logic.

12:10Jacqueline Novak:but you know own it as such right anyway point is point is i've been ordering in from this plant-based

12:15Kate Berlant:mexican ha ha ha ha ha place right i'm telling you the order you say ha ha ha ha ha because that's what it's called yeah i mean j a j a j a j a yeah yeah yeah yeah i got it i figured that's what you were saying but i had to be sure yeah okay understandably and i'm telling you when i order what i really want like the full the full deal which kind of includes like a secondary meal for later it's like a hundred bucks it's like a hundred bucks of course it's a hundred bucks i've been getting for two people i've been getting basically like these nachos because you know i love them and and as kind of this like fun lunch and then i've been getting this secondary salad that has these chickpeas it's like a big lightly i guess blanched broccoli and just this really dense whatever kind of salad and then i'm trying to think oh and then i like to get a side of big ass side of salsa and then times two me and Chris.

13:09Kate Berlant:So you do that a couple days in a row and then you see instant pot is on sale or whatever the one, you know, a hundred bucks. And I'm going, if I'm at a place for two days, it actually saves me money to order an instant pot just for that trip. If I were to a hotel and I was willing to plug it in, you know, you know, that's not allowed. But if I were to a hotel for three days, it's like not allowed to Plug in at a hotel? They don't want you with cooking plates in hotels. Right, right, right. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

13:39Jacqueline Novak:You can't bring your little hot plate.

13:42Kate Berlant:You can't be roasting. You can't do corn on the cob. I heard another thing that was like the amount of underwear left in the coffee filters of hotel coffee machines. I hope they can't be doing it with Nespresso. Maybe that's part of the change because it's too small. No, that's old school. Although, honestly, they kind of could do it in Nespresso because it's really the dead center of the underwear.

14:01Jacqueline Novak:you're you're worried about cleaning isn't it oh jesus by the way back on hotels and coffee i'm i called a hotel recently looking which hotel should i stay at i call hi can you tell me what the in-room coffee situation is there's instant coffee yeah yeah but we have coffee in the lobby this again this is different from celebration is this different this is different this is a new time and then and then i said what about do you have room service they have dinner only. Between 4 and 6.30 p.m.? Probably. And then they go, we can't technically bring it up to the room to you. I didn't understand. Wow.

14:39Jacqueline Novak:Needless to say, I booked elsewhere.

14:41Kate Berlant:Needless to say, I booked elsewhere. Huge phrase, actually. Loving that for the t-shirt when those roll out, everyone. Needless to say, I booked elsewhere. Wait, you didn't guess what I bought. Oh yeah, thank you. For my at-home health life.

14:55Jacqueline Novak:Okay, hold on. I'll give you a hint, 10 ,000 steps.

14:58Kate Berlant:I was just about to say, you're going to give me a hint that's too obvious. People always do this. Wait, wait. But what was it? My hint? Yeah, the hint. That I'm trying to get 10 ,000 steps a day. It's related to that, right? Oh, wait, I think I know. Oh, no, I don't know because this is definitely analog. Rucking? Actually, I have one of those. I got a weighted vest. All right. We'll talk about rucking soon. It's only 10 pounds though and I kind of feel like I barely feel it. I think that's the idea. You're not like weightlifting. Although I was lifting weights the other day. Instant muscle? and um i mean it looks you're pixelated as usual but by the way i'm sorry i'm thinking only in t-shirts but you're pixelated as usual makes me laugh as that's funny both the podcast and life i agree

15:44Jacqueline Novak:so it's a stepper i couldn't wait anymore sorry thank you what it's a little stepper oh i think you talked about this like a little treadmill i get half off if you want one i can get send you a promo you'll get it half off great thank you for jumping to it's not expensive it's like a hundred bucks a stepper you you mean like one of those walking desk kind of things so you don't know i don't what the fuck do you mean it's this oh wait i think i know what it is no hysterical

16:13Kate Berlant:okay my dad my dad went through a period with those fitly i don't know why it's so funny but it is it is funny he went through a period with that maybe he had an injury or something

16:25Jacqueline Novak:i was stepping watching couples therapy okay is it i was like well i'm 60 sorry about all the

16:30Kate Berlant:noise folks no just trying to find a pen it's not we can't we can't we can't all right so give us your entire thing um so you've got right now you got a vibration i've got the vibration plate I've got the high zoo okay you've got stepper so this is a real don't need to leave the house

16:51Jacqueline Novak:kind of plan right and then as you know we have the led light path got the lima so we've got kind of the whole overall light path not to mention the higher dose sauna blanket but really but

17:03Kate Berlant:these items these are the new items yeah yeah no I'm just talking about the new and this is just

17:09Jacqueline Novak:recommitment to and listen the stepper so i know it sounds but then i got my head to go you hear this 10 000 steps a day you've been hearing this forever right and i was like eh and i thought well what what if instead of because i go what if i actually tried to let's see how many steps i have today what if i actually tried to hit that um god listen to me guys turn off the show if you're

17:29Kate Berlant:there are times where i'm at 4 600 steps today what i'm probably because all i did was go to the cafe where I bounce my legs and they say that, you know, that's good too. Wait, hold on. Should I look at what mine are? Cause, cause I've walked nowhere. I've walked to the cafe and back today. Ready? Yeah. It's going to be low. Okay. Thousand, 1047. Oh, that's not bad. Jacqueline,

17:59Jacqueline Novak:I did hot yoga. Oh wow.

18:00Kate Berlant:Really?

18:01Jacqueline Novak:And then I, okay, guys, this is what happened to me, right? I did hot yoga and then I bought the new client special,$80 for unlimited for a month. And I go, well, here we go. Well, here we go.

18:11Kate Berlant:Because first of all, the new client specials, I just want to say. Genius. They're geniuses. They get you. I've paid. I've continued on. They work. They are correct to do it. When did I go to yoga? Two weeks ago. So tell me everything. Did you think about me and Warrior? Yes, I did. I absolutely did.

18:28Jacqueline Novak:Were you like, she's right? I did yoga a week ago. I haven't been back. It's not that bad. and so much happened in the last week. So I'm fine.

18:35Kate Berlant:What about chair pose? Let's go through every yoga position. I genuinely think this is interesting.

18:40Jacqueline Novak:Thoughts on chair pose. What is that? Ukatasana?

18:43Kate Berlant:I feel like it is.

18:44Jacqueline Novak:Oh, I don't know. You're the yoga master.

18:47Kate Berlant:I haven't done yoga in ages except for a couple of times.

18:49Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, but you're still the master.

18:51Kate Berlant:I'll take it.

18:52Jacqueline Novak:You know what I don't like in yoga? And immediately I was reminded of this. So this is hot yoga, which I like but so get in there in the room it was a nice studio not too crowded thank god not crowded at all I'd say 9 a.m what am I pregnant with six kids it's crazy to be at 9 a.m yoga anyway although I guess six o 'clock is when they're real or so anything below nine is impressive actually I guess nine o 'clock is like the god I want to be one of those people one of the 6 a.m I know so can you imagine I just I don't know okay so when you eat dinner at midnight it's

19:22Kate Berlant:It's tough. All right.

19:25Jacqueline Novak:So I'm down there on my back, right, in corpse pose waiting for the class to start. And then I'm hearing this. It's always a man. Sorry. It's always a man. Ew. What? Heavy breathing, deep. Really taking up space with his breath. Like, can you fucking keep it down?

19:47Kate Berlant:I mean, they do a lot of time encourage audible breathing. I know. I know.

19:51Jacqueline Novak:find it so fucking i don't like it no and it and i know that we're all breathing in the room but it just conjures aerosols i'm like so you're aerosolizing and then also it's just i don't know suddenly i'm like so now i'm like making out with you against my will i think yoga i got an

20:12Kate Berlant:idea you'll like this one yoga studio right in front or around your mat or maybe it's a no mat studio it's a different kind of system there's a vacuum vent that's essentially sucking air straight down like oh you know what i just invented on my own i invented that thing in planes that's above you basically air distribution happening right under your own mat oh that would be smart that would be smart so wait i just want to go through the positions i know it's stupid but honestly give it to me so chaturanga you know are you like are you able to do a goddamn push-up you

20:47Jacqueline Novak:probably are i find it quite challenging i can do like three it escapes me it's hard push-ups are fucking hard it's like i'm but by the way i feel like i'm having a revolution because i am trying to wake up my ass my ass muscles get out of the quads you're trying to wake up your ass muscles

21:03Kate Berlant:as usual new ass by january january 2006 yeah and the weighted vest that's in the so i've got the

21:10Jacqueline Novak:weighted vest i've got the stepper i could do the weighted vest at home with the stepper while watching couples therapy interesting do you watch couples therapy no it's astonishing you love that shit like what is that hbo fucking love it you'd think so very good i'm sure hbo passed and they're regretting it maybe they didn't pass it's showtime now paramount there's a new season it's exquisite

21:32Kate Berlant:it's unbelievable people stay in i don't usually want to watch those things but i often resist reality when it's described and then once it's on i'm loving it i think you would just love it it's so fascinating it's like just utterly fascinating okay so i this morning so hang on

21:50Jacqueline Novak:i've really really been working on staying off instagram listen i'm sorry amazing but last couple weeks i've been very good just on there for a second to pop in when i need to for example to promote i'm just going to do a local los angeles promotion i have my own sandwich that i've collabed with kismet kismet rotisserie star and anise i have my own sandwich in los angeles for the, there's no star anus in it.

22:13Kate Berlant:Sorry, I just mean, isn't that in there chicken and what gives it special flavor? There's something really specific about the flavor of that. And I once tried to identify it and John Early said he thinks it might be that. Anyway, go on. Sorry.

22:25Jacqueline Novak:Well, I have a collaboration pita sandwich, all benefiting Churla for the month of July, which is the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights. So if you're in Los Angeles and you're as horrified as we all are by ice, Churla does great work. you can get the pita it's a cob so i'm sorry if you're vegan you're not gonna be but it's so good because go to kismet your friend can get the cop you can get they have amazing vegan

22:50Kate Berlant:vegetarian options you could also probably get the cob just i don't know can't you just say i want my sandwich to go to the thing the cake i don't know i don't know i think you can order that sandwich but it's fucking delicious and i truly had it today for lunch for fun swinging by

23:08Jacqueline Novak:getting my sandwich. Can you imagine?

23:10Kate Berlant:The dream. Mary David dream, you know?

23:12Jacqueline Novak:I know. It's the dream. And then, by the way, across the street from Kismet is my new hyperfixation beverage, which is, and I know I'm late to the game, Kettle Matcha. They sell it online. They have a store in New York. They won in LA. Getting the Kettle Matcha Soy Latte.

23:28Kate Berlant:Wait, so what's the business called? Kettle Matcha?

23:29Jacqueline Novak:Kettle. Sorry, Kettle. K-E-T-T-L is this kind of high-grade matcha. But where do they serve it? At a store

23:36Kate Berlant:called Kettle?

23:37Jacqueline Novak:They have a shop in New New York, they have a shop in LA.

23:39Kate Berlant:Not a cafe.

23:41Jacqueline Novak:Cafe. Sorry, I'm saying shop. Cafe. Gorgeous cafe. Okay, interesting.

23:44Kate Berlant:I wonder. I wonder.

23:46Jacqueline Novak:I've been like three days in a row and I'm driving 20 minutes to get it. That's how good the matcha is. That's interesting because I've actually been doing matcha for the last couple days. I got to make it at home.

23:56Kate Berlant:Just matcha at Joe, but. Really? I have to. By the way, I really appreciate the hags who said hello in New York, in the neighborhood. The hags. Always say hello. Always say hello. even said like you did you said to say hello you know and of course of course doesn't matter how focused i look i'm always focused doesn't matter if i'm under my special headset always tap always say remove the headphones boy does it give me a boost no we need it so bad we need it so fucking

24:24Jacqueline Novak:bad yes by the way sorry so i was saying popping up to promote the sandwich but then also so this morning i popped onto instagram and i see in classic form they're feeding me a recipe someone at home making something and I go, I'm going to do it.

24:39Kate Berlant:So this is, you're going to do what the

24:40Jacqueline Novak:recipe make this thing, which is an egg white.

24:45Kate Berlant:So I can't believe you're able to get your ass to do a recipe. I just cannot bring myself to recipe is a strong word for what this was. It was so easy,

24:52Jacqueline Novak:but it did involve me busting out the hand beater, like the egg beater electric thing. And I was like, that might be too much. That might push me over the edge. Yeah. Having a plug in. yeah i was like oh fuck but listen to me and this is very like yeah keto whatever thing but it's an a so it's a like a big fluffy i'm just gonna say it fucking worked and i loved it oh i see i see i see i know where this is going egg beat i know three egg whites to form peaks you make cloud bread yeah yeah literally guess who's known about cloud bread for eight years of course i just say did you make it no i've never had the courage so there's the bread that i feel like is weird because it needs certain additives, like special things.

25:34Jacqueline Novak:This is only the egg whites, a little baking powder, cinnamon, vanilla.

25:40Kate Berlant:It's protein bread, I imagine, is how they sold it to Cape Relent.

25:43Jacqueline Novak:It was a pancake. I wanted a pancake. Look, it does not look good.

25:49Kate Berlant:Are you sending it to me? I think everything looks good.

25:51Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, totally. But this is, I have to say, I loaded it up with some Greek yogurt, some berries some monk fruit why am i laughing syrup and i was moaning that looks delicious i was moaning like a cat on a hot tin roof that looks delicious okay thank you you're being

26:14Kate Berlant:generous no i'm like staring at it going i'll make a better one luckily i'm just trying to think i'm like wait but i don't eat egg whites and then it's like oh right i could make i could i know i I could just make a pancake. Not that you're trying to avoid chickpea or whatever. The point is it's still a mix.

26:30Jacqueline Novak:No, this was just a fun idea. I also sent you a meme because I was like isn't there something really cozy and relaxing when a meme really makes you laugh? Okay, and you're like laughing. I couldn't agree

26:43Kate Berlant:more.

26:45Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, so I was like you know, stressful week. Oh, wait, wait, wait. You sent me a meme. Hold on. Can you describe it for the listeners?

26:55Kate Berlant:Is that Pedro Pascal? I have two really good ones.

26:58Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, for whatever reason. He appears to be lying on his back. You could take him out of it. You think that's irrelevant? Actually, no, you're right. It's not. It's not a traditional. It's irrelevant to my enjoyment of the meme, but yes. It appears like he's lying on his back. He's on the ground.

27:13Kate Berlant:And then his head is lifted up almost and smiling to look at his phone. I suspect he was actually taking a photograph in that moment. anyway but irrelevant smart god you're smart it creates a nice baseline for the quote the caption me in my bed taking a survey at 3 a.m to see what kind of pasta i am oh no wait well okay no this is funny it's just no no it's just funny to like

27:42Jacqueline Novak:this actually really this is really powerful exercise because it shows the way it doesn't fucking work because the whole context of enjoying a meme is you're in bed you're laying down you're like supine it's not about oration it's not about dictation you have to see it and you have to come across it in like the hellish scroll you know what i mean like that's part of what it is right you are in it while you can't hang them on a wall you can't hang them on a gallery wall although

28:11Kate Berlant:the memory of where we meant to perceive them could actually put them on the wall but it only emerges in the chaos yeah i think um memes fucking rock okay and they will be ladies don't let no man who drinks matcha raise his voice at you you talk to him woman to woman that's funny naomi's on that yeah naomi like like is in the like catches memes they're my

28:42Jacqueline Novak:A youth correspondent, yeah. No, but memes have replaced contemporary art 100%. Correspondent is funny because I know what you mean by it,

28:50Kate Berlant:but when you say like the White House correspondent, whatever, it's almost like they're reporting. No, I guess it is. It is. Sorry. I had to walk through the metaphor. They're reporting to me, yeah, the youth.

29:11Jacqueline Novak:i've had some hot summers in my life i have to tell you cozy earth sheets are so cooling i know this is an ad but i'm here to tell you this is my authentic experience to getting into my bed after cozy earth sheets what oh my god i was moaning i was i i could not believe the comfort i was like well i need these sheets for the rest of my life i know and i was already panicking because i have I famously have a queen-size bed, but I'm looking to upgrade to a king in the next half a year. And I'm like, well, I need the king. I need the king, the Cozy Earth king. I have a king. They are so comfortable.

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30:27Kate Berlant:have I already talked on this podcast about how I've been wearing a headset in public no full gamer headset with a big ass great floating for phone calls for everything yeah for just dictation like you know floating what oh the floating like microphone in front in the face of a true headset hound. I'm not the first to introduce them in the Joe Cafe. Can't believe you're on a stepper. I don't know. Doesn't matter. We are where we are.

30:57Jacqueline Novak:I have something from Movie Club, and someone did tag Godzilla Midas 1 and say, like, holy shit, this is amazing. Still waiting for you to watch. Perfect summertime movie.

31:05Kate Berlant:Well, it was interesting. I was almost disappointed when I realized that it was a Japanese film, right? I was like, oh, no wonder it's good. I thought it was some American like, you know, trash film that then was actually amazing.

31:19Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

31:20Kate Berlant:So I'm almost disappointed to know that it's known as a good. Those almost don't exist anymore.

31:24Jacqueline Novak:Right. There was a great era of that in American cinema, the trash film that actually was good because there used to be some kinds of standards. Now they're almost entirely unacceptable every last one. I don't know when the last good American trash film was. I couldn't tell you with a gun to my head.

31:38Kate Berlant:Yeah, it's hard to say.

31:39Jacqueline Novak:I believe everything has a chance. I hardly believe, but I think they still are making some, well, but here, I want to submit this to Movie Club and Jacqueline specifically. I need to know if you've seen this. I want to guess. Just kidding. Have you seen Ari Aster's masterpiece, Bo's Afraid? I literally haven't. And I'm humiliated. And I did hear - Okay. So this is great news because you can. No, no, no. Listen, listen to me. That's so embarrassing having not seen something, isn't it? It's not. No, this is a, no. Yes. I'm a fan of, I'm a huge fan of his, all his work. This, Bo's Afraid is my favorite of his films, and I'm a big fan.

32:15Jacqueline Novak:But I would have to say that one's the one for me. And I saw it in theaters. When I tell you for the first hour or whatever, because there's some different kind of segments in a way. Amazing. I was cackling. And I mean loudly laughing in a way where I became self-conscious. People thought I was performing laughter.

32:36Kate Berlant:Much like me at your show, and I still feel bad about that. It couldn't be helped me screaming.

32:45Jacqueline Novak:No, no, no, that's great. That's so, it's so nice.

32:48Kate Berlant:No, no, I love it. No, but here's why you say, I look, I look it up and I just see American surrealist tragic comedy and I go, well, yeah, well, yeah. Like, holy shit. Like that gives language to something like that I want to from now on be like, so I'd like to make an American surrealist tragic comedy. don't read anything don't read anything there it is i'm not i'm not no one don't watch a trailer no one no one do anything just go watch it but i knew naomi would love it when i tell you they were

33:17Jacqueline Novak:screaming like there no there's things that making them like the best feeling truly i almost started filming them like howling that's the best there's unbelievable comedy and by the way and i have announcement which is and this is i'm really saying this there isn't another film there's nothing that I've ever consumed in my life that produces the anxiety of this movie.

33:39Kate Berlant:Oh, my God. And it's the kind of anxiety.

33:41Jacqueline Novak:And that's how successful it is. Wow. Like, I've never related. I like watching difficult characters, right? Like, okay, take it from the comedy. David Brent in The Office, right? Lisa Kujo in The Combat. People go, oh, I just can't watch. It's so hard to watch. I just can't watch. And I've never related to that. Yeah. And I'm like, it's hilarious.

33:59Kate Berlant:Like, what? Yeah. It's like, you understand that's exactly what's funny. And part of me, I'm like, really?

34:02Jacqueline Novak:you really can't watch it or whatever right but some people really do have come to learn find it too difficult to be walking phoenix in this is it's such a remarkable performance and it is

34:16Kate Berlant:oh do you mean you actually experience the anxiety of like of almost like what people are talking about like the whatever secondhand embarrassment or whatever like it's this tragic

34:25Jacqueline Novak:comic figure but there's times where it's you really feel his the difficulty of his like unique subjectivity and how it is i'm gonna go even further and say it is it is i would argue maybe the only effort on the part of a filmmaker to in any way try to reflect back the moment in which we are alive oh is in this current moment yeah or you know current like yes or just like 23 everyone and you know and he's also doing this in his new movie it's and everyone's like oh we really want to talk don't we want to watch a movie to escape do we want to get out of this hell sure but i would argue yeah sure the only way out is through and also yeah reality is medicine and also it's actually unbelievable when you see kind of your your situation reflected back to you

35:10Kate Berlant:or the someone trying to make sense of it yeah true anyway please watch it i'm submitting it

35:15Jacqueline Novak:to movie club. And I really think, but, but I'm also like telling you it's, I don't want to see your phone in your hand when you're watching this, everyone. This is not a phone watch. We have enough of those. No, I meant everyone. I'm saying though, we have enough of those. This is a phones down. Okay. Also last thing I'll say in this goddamn world. Oh, it's two and a half hours. I don't want to hear it. I just saw Eddington, which I loved. I'm sitting there. It's what? Two and a half hours? I haven't seen it. I'm telling you this. I'm never going, let's hurry up. Let's get through it. What's next?

35:53Jacqueline Novak:At the very least, a huge accomplishment, which is imagine two and a half hours where you're not thinking about your life. I would argue then what you've done is a success. People go, oh, well, that's Marvel movies. No, you're thinking about your life. I'm going, where's my car? I'm thinking about what I'm having for dinner. Actually, no, I'm not. I'm not even in that. I'm not even in the fucking seat for that shit. That being said, I'm available.

36:19Kate Berlant:Wait, you're not even in the fucking seat for which shit? To play a crazy cashier. Wait, sorry. I lost you at the end there.

36:24Jacqueline Novak:I was making... How could you have followed it? I was making a pretentious comment.

36:28Kate Berlant:Usually I don't. Usually I'm right there. I was making a pretentious comment. Yes. About the fact that I don't see those films in theaters. Right.

36:36Jacqueline Novak:The last one I saw, I saw Guardians in the Galaxy, the first one in theaters. When was that? 2004? four like i feel like hard to say hey they're having fun up there sorry i just heard a sound

36:45Kate Berlant:and i got scared i live in constant terror all right um totally totally i actually i want to make a comment on that the constant terror because something i am that you are not is a gasper

36:54Jacqueline Novak:gasping no i'm a gasper do you do that oh because i am and my mother is the hugest gasper and my whole childhood is like my mom and my dad like they say it's a new to do thing what they say

37:07Kate Berlant:it's an ADD thing because you're kind of being like woken from hyper focus on one thing. Like I gasp. Chris is like, why are you surprised that the person you live with walked into the room?

37:19Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, yeah. Completely. Completely. You know, I mean, he doesn't talk like that or sound like that, but I mean, he's raised that point. When you live with a crazy bitch. Yeah. Yeah, of course. No, it's a classic. Like I shouldn't be surprised to see him. I remember hearing or reading somewhere that it's like when you're spooked suddenly or startled, easily. It's of course a sign of like adrenal fatigue or like that your system is shopped, like your, your vagus nerve is like shot beyond belief. And I once was, I was having particularly tough or like tense couple of days. And I was, I think I've even talked about this on the podcast, but I was walking with my keys in my hands, kind of like a little above my, like I was walking in stride and I saw out of the corner of my eye, my own key that I was holding.

38:02And like, not just

38:04Jacqueline Novak:gassed, I like got out of the way. I thought it was like almost like a rat, like a flying rat or

38:09Kate Berlant:something that was coming for me.

38:11Jacqueline Novak:And it was my own keys in my own hand. And I kind of flung my body away from my own hand. And then I realized that's not a rat. It's my hand.

38:21Kate Berlant:Yes.

38:22Jacqueline Novak:And I thought, well, that's a sign of adrenal fatigue.

38:26Kate Berlant:By the way, like signs of adrenal fatigue is like the biggest headline, like they've been pushing for 15 years. They're like, At this point, it's like, we know. We've been blowing out our cortisol.

38:38Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

38:40Kate Berlant:But, you know, now we just have to wait for, you know, to come around again the other way. Just like the barrier cream, you know, like we've been, guys, you created too thick a barrier cream. Wait, you know what it is? I'll submit to television club because. Oh, my God. There I am gasping. Sorry. It's deeply. It's deeply a me show.

39:02Jacqueline Novak:I was going to say started Titan, but haven't continued.

39:04Kate Berlant:Keep going. What?

39:06Jacqueline Novak:Started Titan Submersible last night, but haven't finished.

39:08Kate Berlant:Oh, yeah. I actually received video of you watching it. Oh, yeah.

39:11Jacqueline Novak:Me high on one one. You didn't know?

39:13Kate Berlant:Or you didn't know?

39:14Jacqueline Novak:No, no. They filmed me. But yeah, but it's me. Yes. Reacting to. Yeah, I'm excited. Recalling Interstellar.

39:21Kate Berlant:Wait, now I. What's odd is I can't remember what was in the one I watched and what was in the Netflix one. Because remember, I was. There was two. The one wasn't available. loci went running to discovery network or whatever it was yeah by the way you know about this that i call it i think it's funny getting maxed which is you're on hbo max or max right okay okay and you go oh this looks like an interesting documentary love a prestige documentary you hit play you go this is and then you go oh okay and it's like because they bought and subsumed id discovery network, all this shit under there. Getting maxed.

40:00Kate Berlant:That's hysterical. It ain't the jinx.

40:02Jacqueline Novak:I'm like, we got maxed. You got maxed. You think it's the jinx, but it's actually, yeah. Yes. Well, what's the trend? There's a horrifying trend in contemporary documentaries. I find them almost exclusively on Hulu or something where it's because it's like, you know, now no one can watch a movie or no one has the bandwidth to tolerate anything that's longer than 10 seconds. So they pump in like, it's not even because of course obsessed with documentary reenactments and how pathetic they often are.

40:26Kate Berlant:Oh no, you better not be talking about the things in the corner that are like, have you ever thought your husband was going to kill you? No, I've never seen that. Tweet at us. Try to keep you in.

40:36Jacqueline Novak:No, but it's like Hulu or something like the conglomerate, they pump in clips from movies. So let's just say in the documentary, it's like, and then I realized, oh my God, I'm going to miss my flight. And then they pump in some fucking clip from a movie and it's like Clive Owen.

40:53Kate Berlant:I don't know why that's okay. Are you serious? I'm going to miss my flight. I know why you just said Clive Owen. Why? Because I was about to bring him up. No, stop. A good 46 seconds ago. Wait, that means that, okay, this is good. This is channeling. I'm very good. Because Jacqueline, he's not in my life.

41:07Jacqueline Novak:He's not in my mind. He's not someone that is my guy at all. I know. You sent it to me.

41:12Kate Berlant:He broke through. You sent it to me. This is huge. This is huge. You sent it to me live. I honor you once again. You're not coming back.

41:18Jacqueline Novak:Oh my God. After this lifetime. Oh, my God. So, and they pump in clips from other movies so that the distracts. To say, essentially, to say go watch this. No, no, no. Well, sure, but to pepper it with like, don't worry. Don't worry. It's not boring. Look, here's a clip from this one. Clip, clip, clip, clip. To mimic like. Oh, that's pathetic. Oh, it's so pathetic. I don't think I've seen that. I've seen it in a few things. And I have to stop watching because it's like they think they're like, oh, it's a documentary. but then you realize it's actually for like the schizophrenic, like scrolling youth, I guess.

41:49Jacqueline Novak:I don't know. But it's not even just the youth as we know. It's in fact, the elderly I feel like are even more because now they've got the phones in their, in their golden years and they're susceptible. I know. And they've noted to launch in retirement. Well,

42:03Kate Berlant:I was going to say the most me show ever. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I basically am him, you know, it's like whatever the nick ever seen it have i brought this up before i almost can't even

42:20Jacqueline Novak:soda bird i almost on air can't admit that i haven't seen it it's how shamed but i have not

42:24Kate Berlant:seen it no right it rocks we're on our second viewing i watched it years ago we're in new york we're feeling this very like let's watch stuff that takes place in old new york whatever and I watch it I go god damn okay Clive Owen star that's why I can't believe I mean that's what I was about to bring him up yeah okay you sent me Clive Owen I'm sorry but this is you

42:48Jacqueline Novak:sent me Clive Owen there's no reason he'd be in my mind I know I'm almost like I need to look him

42:54Kate Berlant:up to see if he's who I think he is because I'm so bad with celebrity names and I wonder if even yeah that is Clive Owen I mean I don't know which way is even more impressive if you've got the right image or not because it kind of doesn't matter like it's like you know when the psychic is like so i'm seeing my symbol for you know mother's brother right right right you know that

43:11Jacqueline Novak:is there's no reason he'd be up there you looked yeah so it fucking rocks why because it's about

43:19Kate Berlant:early surgery okay it's about being a pioneer of surgery which would i not have been of course okay wildly advancing you know going for it going yes it freaking rules okay and that was i said freaking i don't say friggin so i will not be misquoted this has happened before occasionally i say freaking i love i say freaking i say freaking freaking maybe i say fucking

43:55Kate Berlant:so anyway the nick get in if you want to spend an hour with me i want to do that's fun that's fun

44:02Jacqueline Novak:i want to do major tv today i was thinking about firing up the screen firing up the like it's a fucking grill firing it up at like five and and plug it going till midnight yes because tv rocks naomi had never seen the piano teacher which is one of my favorite films of all time newsflash yeah googled it earlier today going have you not seen have i seen it panicky it's a brilliant you can watch it on criterion because nothing was coming to mind so i'm like humiliating but but jack and i need you to watch beau's afraid i'm i'm going to and back to how powerful it is as filmmaking i'm going to issue a warning because for example is this a movie that i would necessarily say it's not scary because ari astor made hereditary which is genuinely terrifying and like yes and if you don't like scary movies that's a movie that i'd be like well it's gonna be too scary for you i was afraid it's not scary in that sense it's not right like but it's a i mean it's a testament to the filmmaking and to the performances it actually is deeply unsettling in this way that's hysterical too do you remember like maybe i'm assuming

45:12Kate Berlant:but like the first time you saw Salon's Happiness?

45:18Jacqueline Novak:I'm actually going to have to almost. Seriously, cut this? No, no, no. This is a first for the podcast. We've been doing this podcast for years, okay? I've never had the instinct to do the classic rip off the headphones, walk away.

45:34Kate Berlant:Oh my God.

45:36Jacqueline Novak:No, because it's like, it's the most, it's one of the most integral films to like my entire being. well that's so right it's one of the things like walking away like i can't big enough like it's like it's like yeah it's like happiness is well that's why i said do you remember the first time you saw it out of the assumption the answer is yes i must have been 16 15 i really want to get opening i want to say that i i know it it's it's i have it on dvd you know it's deep in there the first scene of happiness changed my life because i didn't know you could start a movie that way i I didn't know. I know.

46:11Jacqueline Novak:I didn't know actor. I didn't know you could do that. I didn't know. I know. I felt the same.

46:17Kate Berlant:I was in my basement. Okay. Me, me like asking the question to tell my own tale. And there is no, there is no story. All like the story is like watching the film, but, oh, and I also, you know, it's pretty fun. I ordered it once online, this like special poster for the film. Oh. And it literally has like this like semen on it. Has what? Like a semen on it. like as a reference to the semen on the wall. Amazing. Okay. And so I watched it alone in the basement during my sort of like teenage awakening filmmaking. I want to be a filmmaker. Yeah. I still do folks. Okay. Watching, going like, cause to watch it alone is interesting.

47:01Kate Berlant:Okay. Because you're going, this is like the funniest thing I've ever seen in my whole life.

47:07Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

47:07Kate Berlant:Right. And you're going like, there's a purity to it because I think if you watch that with someone or you watch that with someone you don't know or whatever, I don't know what scenario I'm trying to imagine other than watching it alone. But I mean, to call the humor dark is an understatement. No one fucking had the realest motherfucker in the game.

47:30Jacqueline Novak:Todd Solons. I guess Solons.

47:33Kate Berlant:I don't know. I've been saying Solons. Right. I've been saying songs the whole time. I engaged with his films, not his name. Calendromes.

47:44Jacqueline Novak:Oh, my God. That's really funny.

47:46Kate Berlant:And happiness to me is, you know, a lot of people say welcome to the dollhouse, you know. But I'm like, happiness, happiness, happiness. I'm not dissing dollhouse. Dollhouse is, I mean, it's really hard to pick this doll. But happiness is, holy shit. Like, I'm even scared, you know, because we're in a dawn of a new day. I don't even think I can reference the jokes in scenes that are the funniest thing in the world. I can't be like, in one scene.

48:12Jacqueline Novak:I know. But it is. I mean, listen. We can talk all day about the state of media, cinema, the movies that were made that could never be made now. Indie film used to exist. And it still does.

48:29Kate Berlant:Indie film used to exist. But it used to really exist. I saw one hour photo in theaters there's a there's a new layer there's always a new layer right the thing gets commercialized taken ruined a new aesthetic must be born you know where not aesthetic an aesthetic of the marketplace right a oh now the real film's happening on YouTube or whatever you see what I'm saying yeah yeah all right love you bye bye

49:02.