Episode 040: "Soy Sisters"

11:37Kate Berlant:What? I have a few ideas. Okay, we could go Plant Strong. They sell other milks, but you know I love Plant Strong, the Esselstyn family. And then I, what is the one I really trust? Oh, like New Eden or Eden?

11:50Jacqueline Novak:Eden, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what they have at Kettle. It's very 70s. It's organic. Yep.

11:55Kate Berlant:Organic, unsweetened. You know, I'm like, do I also eat their beans? Is that the same brand? Could be. I mean, soy bean. Yeah. So I'm just thinking us soy, us pushing soy is very exciting.

12:10Jacqueline Novak:I agree. Soy sisters instead of soul sisters. Soy sisters. Tag your soy sister. Oh my God. Soy on the brain. Tag your soy sister. because I'm just thinking we push soy in here.

12:25Kate Berlant:Okay, like calling all soy merchants. We go through a lot of soy in our house, okay? To the point where every time we're at the market, we have to get it, okay? So I'm thinking the right brand, I'm going to need it in bulk, and that means some kind of, I don't know, I'm just thinking the right purveyor. I'm thinking slash hags. Of course. I'm seeing the whole thing. Sorry, I'm just pretty, pretty pumped about this.

12:53Jacqueline Novak:Can I pivot to community? Sure can. But all soy purveyors, email us directly. Okay. I was walking in a neighborhood, not my own, with my partner, and we stopped. I was admiring this front yard, like how well it was landscaped, and it was just gorgeous. And I was like, God damn, that's good, you know. We're walking back. I notice the owner of the home in the driveway getting stuff out of his car. I go, hey, I was like, just had to say, love your garden. Just gorgeous. And he goes, oh, yeah. We start chatting. He goes, well, I'll be paying it off the next five years. Ha, ha, ha. We're chatting. It really is expensive, isn't it?

13:27Jacqueline Novak:Blah, blah, blah. Oh, I see. Next thing I know, I'm getting the number of his yard guy, of his gardener. And he goes, yeah, tell him Steve sent you. And I just go, isn't that gorgeous?

13:38Kate Berlant:You know what's interesting to some, like myself, who are interested in user interfaces?

13:44Jacqueline Novak:I should get my Lima.

13:46Kate Berlant:Yeah, I just pulled out my Lima for those listening. Wait, hang on. Get it. There's nothing like watching a friend using her Lima knowing you're not.

13:58Jacqueline Novak:Hey, sister, soy sister. Ew, my Lima instantly dirty because I'm putting it on top of all my sunscreen. Yeah. But that's fine. That's what's great about Lima. You can just use it over anything. So what were you saying about user interface? Okay.

14:14Kate Berlant:When there's a moment where you just want to get someone's number. Yeah. Or write down a number or any of that, right? It feels like the phone, you know, write down a piece of information. It feels like we have, you know, this piece of technology in our pockets. It should be like the easiest thing in the world. It's actually not. It's actually kind of annoying. Like, I find it. I'm not talking about someone's contact because now you can like bump their phone or whatever. I don't like that. I'm talking about like opening a notes app to write down a piece of information. It's hell. Like, it's too slow.

14:48Jacqueline Novak:Well, don't worry. It's going to be gone soon. And lobbying your head by Christmas

14:53Kate Berlant:And then I struggle with like The conversations going Doing the task on the phone While keeping the conversation going Really struggle with that Sorry I just had to deal with Like a curious text Like a Someone here It's a little bit Like What is it? I'll respond to it now

15:12Jacqueline Novak:What is it?

15:13Kate Berlant:Do tell do tell Oh sorry So you know The gardener Hi Jacqueline and Chris I'm going to be coming by the house today around 6 to water the plants outside.

15:23Jacqueline Novak:Great.

15:23Kate Berlant:And then, hey, how are the plants inside? Do I need to come in and water them? Now, the house manager had said to us, like, if you want to water the plants inside, you can. But also just let him do it. Because I was like, yeah, I get nervous. Like, I always think I'm going to overwater a plant. So I wrote, while trying to stay on the podcast, I wrote, unsure I'm bad with plants. Please do come in. And that was my quick. And then I just wrote, literally stealing it. Like, I tend to over or under, and it's not gone well. I mean. Well, you're fine. That's it. I just, like, it's more that I'm, like, confused by him, like, asking.

16:01Kate Berlant:Because I'm just, like, either we are or are not responsible for them. You're not. Because there's a gardener who's going to come and do them. So, he's, like, sort of, like, trying to make me, I think. Water them? Yeah. I mean, so I was about to. This is, like, me rushing to be liked. I was about to be like, you know, if you want to come in and show me exactly the amounts, you know, I'll do it.

16:22Jacqueline Novak:But no, I think I think you can absolutely say, like, this is really not my forte at all. You know what I mean?

16:31Kate Berlant:So I'm going to let that sit there. All right. So back to us.

16:35Jacqueline Novak:OK, I just got an email. Explore Germany with Amex. Hysterical. Renting cars. I've developed an allegiance to Sixt, S-I-X-T, car rental. We should actually try to do a collab with them.

16:49Kate Berlant:Don't know them. Are they like a normal one or are they disruptors? I think they're disruptors in the field.

16:55Jacqueline Novak:I don't know why. They're not Hertz budget dollar. Yeah, there's something about them. I don't know. I had a really positive customer service experience with them in Hawaii once. And then again recently, I think they're disruptors in the field, but I couldn't tell you why. But all of a sudden, I just have the allegiance where I feel like Hertz, Enterprise, all that. I just picture the long line, the thing, and hell. Everyone does. And something about Sixth, I feel like it's easy. It's like a young—it's young. Wow. It's a more— It's young. It's 2.0. They know you've got your phone right there. I mean, dream come true.

17:28Kate Berlant:I could hear you say that. Right? So let's get them on the morning. I mean, that business is waiting, right? Right. Because it also just feels like this. Yeah. You can picture the standing outside. Yeah. You know, why does it take so long? It's like there's an issue here.

17:43Jacqueline Novak:Also, like what's going on? It seems stressful. And just my drop off was so easy. Oh, my God. This really feels paid for. But I just was like something about it. I just go. I have to rent a car, you know, soon. And I go, I'm going with six. Wait, wait, wait. Oh, by the way, there's a tagline. I'm going with Sixth. Because of going, driving in the car. Yeah. By the way, shout out. Still some seats left for San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Denver, and Austin. Get your tickets at kaperland.com. Thank you so much. Yeah.

18:16Kate Berlant:Okay, good. No, I say that because I'm going to. Okay, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait. Something about Sixth I was dying to say. I'm going with Sixth. I'm going with Sixth. Sixth. S-I-X-T. I wonder, what is the Sixth related to? I really don't know. it's a really good point very interesting but again you know this is exactly like spontaneous ads happen we do them enough that i say like it happens naturally enough that i believe we could fill the ad slots with these send them after the fact integrated say you want to have you can use this you know i just think that's sort of the way started the final yeah i fell today

19:00Jacqueline Novak:backwards from this chair oh my god that reminds me it's a wild feeling was it painful so amazingly no okay was it scary sure falling is always scary so two things happen i fell and i

19:14Kate Berlant:stayed there this is this is not new for me okay to take it in and to be yeah and to be witnessed Of course. Okay, so I start yelling for Chris, okay? Oh, no. Just, I want to be witnessed at the end of the fall. If I get up.

19:25Jacqueline Novak:Well, it's the only joy, the only, the only little treat inside of fall. Falling's horrible. The only thing that's in there is if that's your kink. And then they gather around. Ew. Crying.

19:38Kate Berlant:Did you cry? No, it was, no. So here's what was interesting. Okay, I go to sit down at the desk and I've got this coffee. And I had gone capless, you know, no topper, don't need all the plastic. Totally. Had it, walking home. I do that too, no top, no straw. I knock it over, I spill it all over myself first. Yeah. I clean myself up, I come back, I go to sit down, again, to get started on some work. And I climb into this desk chair in the cross-legged style that I enjoy working in. That, the balance was off. It can't handle that style coming from sort of behind. so back I go and it's it's a wild feeling when you're falling in a way where your limbs are constricted you cannot reach behind yourself not that that's even good you break your wrist I mean it's one of the craziest feelings like like you literally can't do anything but wait for the hit yeah yeah totally I'm going backwards wondering is my the back of my head going to hit the bookshelf it did not I landed without it hitting the bookshelf as far as I remember And then I sat there stunned and I thought two things.

20:48Kate Berlant:I'm not getting up and getting back to the desk. Obviously something is throwing me. I've tried twice now in a row to sit down and get started on the work. Something is not. I'm meant to consider this moment, right? What?

21:01Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

21:02Kate Berlant:Does something happen?

21:03Jacqueline Novak:I'll tell you off air. Yeah, we have off air conversations, guys. Some stuff's not fit for print. Keep going.

21:14Kate Berlant:Fit for print, by the way, so good as a phrase. I know. It's like, hmm.

21:20Jacqueline Novak:Does it still say that on the top of the New York Times every day? All the news that's fit to print? I think it must. Yeah, it must. Okay, keep going.

21:27Kate Berlant:So down I go, right? Well, they're not, yeah. I followed my way back earlier in the story. But I'm sitting there and I go, and I have this moment where I go, that was quick. And I go, was I scared, right? Yeah. And I'm like, I was like, oh, no, kind of. but you're in it your body's in it in this way okay that does prevent over the course of even if it was two seconds long real meditation on it now i say this because it gave me peace about like if horrifying traumatic anything were to happen yeah yeah i'm like even like i would tend to think that two seconds even of terror, like one Mississippi, two Mississippi, as the anvil is falling from the window towards me, like that that would be like plenty of time to really be disturbed and sad and all this kind of stuff.

22:21Kate Berlant:But falling backwards like that, I was like, no, you're in like a, you're just in a slightly different state. It's like you're in your body, just handling, doing what it can.

22:32Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

22:33Kate Berlant:And I found that comforting. I was like, That was a good two seconds, and I was completely consumed by the fall in a way that was not existential. That gave me peace about scary deaths. Yeah, yeah.

22:46Jacqueline Novak:Oh, my God. Yeah.

22:47Kate Berlant:You know, that it would just be like, what the fuck? You'd be like, oh, God.

22:50Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. Best case scenario is, oh, God.

22:52Kate Berlant:Yeah.

22:54Jacqueline Novak:Well, best case scenario, just.

22:56Kate Berlant:And then I sat there going, why have I been thrown from the desk twice?

22:59Jacqueline Novak:Yeah. What is going on? Suggest something. With the chair?

23:01Kate Berlant:I'm supposed to sit here and I stayed there and, you know, Chris appears and, you know, I don't know why I yelled for you, you know.

23:11Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

23:12Kate Berlant:Okay. I didn't hear you, you know, whatever. Yeah. And then I'm like, I'm like, and he's like, here, why don't you get up? And I'm like, no. Okay. I was like stuck in this position where my foot was like, I was still sort of like mangled loosely in the chair. Yeah. But I was sort of like into staying there. I was like, there's something to this. Stay down. As far as I've been here.

23:34Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, yeah. Zen.

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25:38Kate Berlant:I'm reading two radical books about weaving time, rivers of time. What do you mean? Streams of time, retrocausality, navigating timelines and the multi-worlds, etc. Do you want to know what they are for fun?

25:58Jacqueline Novak:Sure. I'm reading recipes on my phone.

26:02Kate Berlant:Yeah. I don't remember how I got to it, but this one is called A Map of Secret Rivers, How to Navigate Timelines. Okay? Okay. You know, it's just, it's a good time. Yeah. That's all I'll say. Yeah. I think it's by Pippa Una. And then the other one I'm reading, I saw somewhere, I think someone in the Mitch Horowitz, you know, my favorite in his chat room sub stack thing. I think someone else mentioned it. Weaving Fates. And it's very witchy. What does it mean? What does it mean? Well, it has, I opened it up and I look at the table of contents and I couldn't resist jumping ahead. You know, because I see this thing, it's like one part's like the corridor, one part's like the stone, and this other part is like the black book.

26:50Kate Berlant:And, you know, there's all this witchy stuff where, you know, you create a cloth sack and you purchase dirt by which from a crossroads to like charge all these objects up and consecrate them. It's like purchase dirt. You're like, what? And it's like from a crossroads. And it's like you go to a crossroads, whether it's a path in a park, whatever. and you dig up a little dirt and you put three, you have to pay for it with three silver coins. So like they're like dimes will work just fine. And they're like don't do it on the way to sign. They're like go out on Dirk's seeking mission and then like put some of your bodily fluids in it.

27:27Kate Berlant:And they're like whatever you're comfortable with, you know.

27:29Jacqueline Novak:Oh my God.

27:30Kate Berlant:They're like that creates a connection. So there's this very like witch kind of, you know, magical workings part of it. but then there's you know i read things without like like particularly anything with like any sort of magical claim without like researching the author okay and so sometimes i feel like almost self-conscious like i'm starting to talk about this i'm saying the name of the book and someone could do research and be like you know oh god well that person was you know a murderer and of course you know what i mean or whatever i'm very like you know i'm just saying that it's sort of a caveat that I just fucking like read things you know what I mean so anyway it's not an endorsement okay I'm just telling you what what what has passed my eyes so so so then this is all kind of about like charging up the black the black book and and then the black book you consecrate a particular pen which excited me and there's a practice with the black book with weaving fates that's like these journal entries where you're you know writing about the past but in this kind of like you know like manifest-y kind of way but it's like literally like like there was this example like this woman like dear diary you know like i had the most incredible day like i was offered this job like whatever you know what i mean it's like and then they keep doing it but it's more playful than that and it goes through and it's like okay that's a little narrow that's little not really felt sense like like you know you want to play okay you want to get in there and if you decide like like you could try stuff out in there and then decide you don't like it and then you can put a huge the words cancel across it like you're not trying to do that thing but but this example had like this woman describing like getting started taking like boxing classes and then and then boy did she have a strong hit and like the teacher said this and all this kind of stuff and it was sort of like now is this woman like does she actually want to start taking fighting classes or is this just something that really scares her and so she's journaling out as though she's gone through this process and it's all been great it's very realistic way it's like carving out new possibilities for the self by writing about it in the past tense like in detail it's it makes sense when you're reading it you're like oh yeah like it's very it's very interesting

29:49Jacqueline Novak:well and then i ran the five minute mile or whatever yeah yeah you know but it's like so

29:55Kate Berlant:there's there's that and then i mean i can't remember if i talked on the pod or not about retro causality i mean i know i said it like a minute ago but it's like right now i'm just like i'm reading a lot of stuff about sort of like not just these sort of like theoretical or or even like real quantum physics like like not so much that kind of stuff about like time it's i'm more like getting in the getting in the dirt with with the witches on it you know what i mean like It is more like books like that, like just like, let's get in there and like, like, it's like, let's fly through timelines. Like, you know, let's send blessings into the past.

30:35Kate Berlant:Like, so you could, you know, you could send blessings now to yourself as a child. That's cute. In some scenario, if it's, you know, that shit is not supposed to be limited by time and space. So arguably you absolutely can, you know, send like a message to yourself in the past as a child, like almost like you're going to be all right or something. I love. and then you know the effects of this it's all this like kind of time loop stuff that is exactly what i need at the end of the day to unwind and get out of the day like it's literally like it's the best because i'm just it's how i transition to sleep i'm like i read about this stuff i get like whoa totally and then drift right off and then i want a journey to other realms

31:26Jacqueline Novak:quick story we all love a period story on poog um so i classic day two of my period going to the beach which by the way advertising is so deep in our personal language or internal language that i was like it really is a tampon commercial isn't it here i am on the beach with a tampon or whatever the fuck so but point is those close to me know i'm heavy the first couple days and um i so i'm in the bikini standing packed beach right i'm standing there facing the water with some friends by the way there was a really serious riptide warning that day so we weren't going like all the way in and there were lifeguards on duty coming out telling people like get the fuck out like it was serious yeah so we're kind of just going up to our knees and he's like you kind of feel the current like pulling like it's yeah it's like terrifying okay so we're standing there facing the ocean I feel a tap of my shoulder I turn around there's a woman maybe you know in her late 40s I go oh that's sweet a fan she goes hi um there's blood running all down the back of your way you're and i oh my god oh my god i thank you thank you i start backing into the ocean my back to the ocean so fast into the riptide right by the way knocked down pulled not not far out but started to be i was knocked down i'm starting to be pulled and it was like all to avoid the embarrassment of i mean it's so funny and here's what was liberating so it's never happened to me Since, you know, since you turned 13, which are, you know, the fear of bleeding of public.

33:13Jacqueline Novak:Oh, my God. It happened to me. Right. For the first time at this age, here I was standing on the beach in the bikini stranger. Hey, you're bleeding down your fucking leg. OK. I was like, it was amazing. My instinct was run, disappear into the ocean. I didn't feel I wouldn't say I felt embarrassed. I wouldn't say I felt shame. but it was like right something overtook me run into the sea and then i of course was like i was like i was like walk behind me check and then it was like fine but it was like you know i was like walk behind me check me you know i didn't want to be walking all the way back to the blanket but then i and then i was fine but i just thought it was interesting to face that now I mean I wonder um I'm trying to think if I've ever had I don't think I've ever had anyone else yeah a stranger to tell me which I appreciated you know I fairly regularly straight through the

34:15Kate Berlant:jeans yeah like and it's almost like like the other day I was like it's like I noticed it's happening get distracted okay just straight up get distracted and then I'm like oh okay and I look down and it's sort of like it's kind of incredible though i will say it with jeans it's almost like for the most part the place that you can take it that it goes through is not that visible when you're standing like usually yeah usually it's like there's also something i think like there's something about like the period blood soaking through whatever like the jeans or the underwear or whatever it is like visible from behind when it is when it's kind of up like heading towards the ass right there's something about that that's almost like i feel like it has a different quality of shame to it because it's like if it was pristinely in the center like straight down to the earth but there's something about it like making its way up that it's kind of like headed towards the ass like like the stain being in that kind of like not in the bottom but like here like out of 45 to like the earth yeah it's like shameful somehow

35:27Jacqueline Novak:Well, I have the strongest memory of the head of my middle school walking down the hall in khakis with blood. She was bleeding through her khakis. Head of the middle school. Mistress? Head, mistress of the middle school. And all girls school, all of us like, oh my God, she has blood. And it was like really formative, I think, for me.

35:45Kate Berlant:I mean, hugely because.

35:48Jacqueline Novak:And I remember feeling bad for her.

35:50Kate Berlant:You know, it's like people like seeing their teacher at the grocery store freaks the shit out of people.

35:54Jacqueline Novak:When you walk in and your two teachers fucking.

36:00Kate Berlant:um but yeah but i also and then i like intellectually i think that i'm like i wouldn't be that freaked out like i'm kind of like i'm like chris bring a shirt or whatever like i'm like so i can wrap it around myself like i'm not even like leaving the cafe i'm just kind of like it's sort of in this i don't know the other thing though like i like what rules me more is I hesitate before sitting on almost any light-colored sofa or chair in life. I know. There's like a constant fear. It's terrifying. And yeah, I'm always sort of sitting on my own leg or doing something else. It's like, it's a really bad feeling when you go, oh, God.

36:49Kate Berlant:Like, what just happened? And did I just have to stand up from this person's beige chair?

36:57Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

36:58Kate Berlant:I mean, it's primal to leave a stain, is it not? It is.

37:03Jacqueline Novak:It's often all we leave behind. Okay, well, love you. Love you.

37:20Thank you.