Episode 044: "Thick with Fairies"

14:08Kate Berlant:There are drought-tolerant things that aren't fully cactus. The point is you want blossoming blooms.

14:13Jacqueline Novak:Yeah.

14:13Kate Berlant:I want some.

14:14Jacqueline Novak:It's going to be a mix. How interesting. I'm fully like, and I want them to send a new model to experience it. Shout out to Oura Ring, who sent us Oura Rings in the olden days of POOG. And now I'm back on it and wearing it every day. To experience your garden? Not all day. Sorry, completely separate from the garden. Completely separate from the garden. I just mean the sleep tracker and the steps tracker is fun. You're gone again. You're going to be this, like, here it is, folks.

14:45Kate Berlant:I'm going to say it. Apple rolls shit out. It has not figured out too soon. For example, Siri.

14:54Jacqueline Novak:Remember when they rolled out Siri? Oh, well, Siri's, Siri can't do shit. Okay. It's like. Sometimes I say to her, you fucking useless bitch. I get angry and she goes, and she goes, I'm just trying to do my job.

15:10Kate Berlant:well i'm thrilled to see that we actually are doing an ad for one skin why because that means boy will i be knocking on corporate's door i'll be emailing the brand going hey i'm gonna need some more of this stuff i mean we were literally just talking about the os1 on the podcast in our

15:26Jacqueline Novak:little corner called product corner i returned to one skin again and again the serum recently has been so restorative to my skin. I love it. I believe I've said this before on the show, but a very chic French woman told me that she swore by these products.

15:43Kate Berlant:I'm currently using the SPF, which is sort of an OS1 infused SPF experience. So I know that I'm doing something positive for the skin as I protect it.

15:55Jacqueline Novak:I continue to return to OneSkin and it's so simple. The serum, it's like a moisturizer and a peptide in one. So I just use that. And after just a couple of days of using it, I'm sorry, but I saw a difference.

16:10Kate Berlant:One Skin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, One Skin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer.

16:19Jacqueline Novak:For a limited time, you can try One Skin with 15 % off using code HAGS at oneskin.co. that's 15 % off at oneskin.co with code HAGS, H-A-G-S.

16:29Kate Berlant:I need to be very, very clear as you run off to purchase it. You probably already did from listening to the podcast, but you need to use our code. Okay, you need to use our code. Otherwise, they won't send it to me. Do you understand? How will they track? How will they know?

16:48Jacqueline Novak:Okay, do you understand? After your purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that we sent you.

17:01Jacqueline Novak:is that your new banquet no that's not dennis gross that's that's um bitch oh yeah bankhead you know what i mean yes i'm so happy for you gorgeous it's beautiful i'm gonna send you the full pictures thank you for noticing thank you for noticing and there's book storage below you can't see it right now i'll send you picture it's fabulous shout out to sky chamberlain incredible artisan i saw someone what do you do when this happens i was on my walk i saw someone it's so fascinating someone i don't even know well acquaintance over the years i recognized him didn't see the side just back of the head just back of like recognized him like it was it was just kind of weird because there's a lot of things we don't notice that we notice i know and i don't even know like i don't know if he has tattoos or not like I just know I did but he does but I didn't know that like I but I was like that's him haven't seen him honestly in years and I saw him do something that like he didn't know that anyone who's being observed but it's something that I was like wow that's kind of cool I want to steal that I saw him do almost he like bowed to a tree you sure he did like he are you sure is the perfect question by the way no he like kind of yeah it was like a like put his hands up like put his hand it was like i saw it as prostrating before a tree it certainly could not stretching his back using the tree as soon as i said i'm realizing it could

18:31Kate Berlant:like trying to get the a thousand fucking percent between those traps you know that he could have just been going it's a very good feeling yeah also because he was like

18:40Jacqueline Novak:he was jogging and then was he definitely the man you thought he was yeah because i texted did i just see you and he goes yeah that's me turns out we're like neighbors i know and like i saw you prostrating before nature no i thought it was cool i was like that's fucking cool i should be

18:55Kate Berlant:doing that so you're telling me oaxaca with a w is a chain in the uk of plant-based mexican food yeah honey i've seen it in london great this is great news because i've been loving it by the way

19:10Jacqueline Novak:What you got there? Well, I'll definitely experience it when I go to London. Guess what? I am a fish. By the way, tried to start this week. Got a slight tech hiccup, but it's happening soon. Oh, my God. The light phone? Yeah. You didn't give mine away yet, did you?

19:26Kate Berlant:Of course not. Give it away. To your cousin? If Novak wants it, she should have come back to the country sooner or something. Cousin ain't getting this. Are you excited?

19:35Jacqueline Novak:Yes. I'm hoping that I can get it installed so that I'm... Because guess what, sweetheart? Guess who's going back to El Roblar in Ojai? You. Can't stay away. I'm going to take it.

19:49Kate Berlant:What do you think it's going to do for you? I don't mean that as a doubt and negativity. Going to Ojai?

19:56Jacqueline Novak:Oh, the light phone or the Ojai? Light phone. Okay, so here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to get a separate phone number. It's going to be involved. This is kind of a thing. And I really hope it can work. because listen, and I'll tell people, if you're looking to minimize phone use, I purchased a brick. It really does help. I can never remember what the hell that is again. And so ostensibly, it's like just use a brick.

20:18Kate Berlant:You lay it down on something?

20:20Jacqueline Novak:Like. Oh, right. I always. It's literally a tile that has a magnet on it. And you can block whatever apps you want. So I've done it for me because, again, I'm addicted to the most pathetic thing, which is Instagram. Okay? So if I don't have Instagram on my phone, And sure, I'm texting. And that is the issue, right? Texting, emailing, all of it. But the point is, you can brick the apps. I brick email, Instagram, internet. You're free. So I think that is a good, it's also a more cost-effective alternative. I think I brick it.

20:52Kate Berlant:We started my thing, my trick of when you lift up your phone, like I want to fuck around on my phone and you just open a book on your phone.

20:59Jacqueline Novak:It's huge. I really like that, your idea of that.

21:01Kate Berlant:Like I did some focus modes where I like slimmed it down. Like, okay, this is like a whatever mode. And you go into this particular focus mode and it like blocks every app except for like three that are nutrient dense. Yeah, totally.

21:15Jacqueline Novak:Well, the thing with the Lifeline that's tough is that I just fucking do rely sometimes, of course, on rideshare apps, whatever. But another thing you can do to minimize your phone use is this. Oh, yeah. Making it go grayscale. My friend was describing watching a toddler, like his friend's toddler was immersed in the iPad. Toddler's parents should be tried at the hay.

21:38Kate Berlant:Oh, wow.

21:39Jacqueline Novak:And then my friend went in there and changed the settings on it to make it grayscale. And he said he watched the kid pick it up and just go, ugh, and put it down. Like didn't even, it had lost all of its power. Wow.

21:52Kate Berlant:Although I remember years ago, something was wrong with the television in the apartment I was living in. And then everything was – it was essentially green scale, you know, like grayish but like shades of green. TV is different though. And like, you know, it was like insane but then quickly did I adjust, right? And it was like, how can you watch that? It was like, what do you mean? You know, like it just becomes what it is. Yeah.

22:19Jacqueline Novak:We adapt. We adapt. What was I just saying about this? I was like, the way we adapt, the speed with which we adapt is shocking.

22:28Kate Berlant:Yeah. It's like, it's, yeah.

22:30Jacqueline Novak:And it can be a tool or it can be your fucking demise. It can be the end of you.

22:35Kate Berlant:Certainly. I'm enjoying something, which is at night I like to watch a crime show called Department Q that takes place in Edinburgh. Oh, yeah. Takes place in Edinburgh. So it's really cozy. People love that. Oh, really? They do? It's really cozy to watch it here.

22:53Jacqueline Novak:Ooh. Oh,

22:54Kate Berlant:Edinburgh. Huge news for the community.

22:58Jacqueline Novak:What?

22:59Kate Berlant:One video. Oh, wait, but I do want to talk about what it feels like watching television at night. There's something about specifically getting into routines. Two things. One, I'm into this thing, which is like, so I watch the show. I stay up late. Like, Chris has fallen asleep. I plow ahead, okay? And there's this feeling of when I'm just saying, fuck it. Like, I'm not going to try to adjust to the time. Okay, I'm going to just go deeper into the belly of the night and the show. And then I know that because I'm actually looking forward to, say, the next night settling in to do some tasks, okay, on my computer, while he catches up, okay?

23:39Jacqueline Novak:Oh, I see.

23:40Kate Berlant:So it's really cozy to sort of have already seen it, have it going. Yeah. It's like half entertainment. And so I can get stuff done while being cradled by the television program that I've already seen, right? That sounds really nice.

23:54Jacqueline Novak:It's seven.

23:55Kate Berlant:Okay. That sounds really good. And then like, but then I like catch him like not paying attention. I'm like, and I'm like, hello. You know what I mean? And I was like, well, actually, I'm happy to do it again. I'm happy to do the same routine again. I was like, you know, become a scholar of just the show I'm happy to be watching. It's also kind of an interesting act. Like not going, what is the show I should become a scholar of? Just whatever the fuck you're watching, just see what happens if you watch it 10 times. What might be revealed. So two things. One, I wonder if you saw this too. It was like someone on Instagram watching another video of a cheek exercise thing and being like, these exercises where you're bulking the facial muscles instead of using filler or something, right?

24:36Kate Berlant:This one lady was like, no, like that's not the answer. Like, yeah, it'll work in short term, but blah, blah, blah, blah. Actually, all the problems are related to tension in the face and bulking these muscles that are supposed to be mimetic muscles actually isn't the one. And I was like, oh, shit. You know, I was like, oh, my God. Oh, OK.

24:55Jacqueline Novak:OK. And then makes me thrilled because I haven't done a single cheat squat.

24:59Kate Berlant:Right. And then I mean, but the real, you know, and then someone commenting below, you know, can you respect that there are different modalities and different approaches and da da da da da. And then, you know, I wasn't coming for you specifically, blah, blah. Right. Right. Right. It was interesting. You know, that's what we do. We chase the latest. I mean, not even, really. I don't know. It felt like news. We chase it down. It felt like news, given what a proponent, how taken I've been with the idea that cheek squats. I don't know. I'm tired of it. I'm tired of it all. I've changed. Guess what I'm getting in two weeks?

25:47Kate Berlant:Microdermabrasion. Microneedling.

25:51Jacqueline Novak:Micro-needling with salmon sperm.

25:53Kate Berlant:Oh, right. You little LA bitch.

25:59Jacqueline Novak:Slut, I know. You little, you are, you know. What do you think of this, Jacqueline? What do you think of this? Because Jacqueline and I were told directly from a very high profile facialist, don't ever do radio frequency, right? She said, don't ever do that. Melt the fat in the face, whatever. I go, I'll never do it, mommy. I'll never do it. Then I was just told this idea. She goes, what I would suggest is such a low level of the radio frequency. She's like, it's not melting your fat. She's like, I'm not going that deep. She's like, I would do such a subtle amount that what you would just get is lift.

26:41Jacqueline Novak:What are your thoughts? Don't even touch it.

26:43Kate Berlant:I can't remember what RF does or is. I can't. I haven't done any of this shit. I've done nothing. the RF thing I can't even remember that I remember the person we were talking to and I didn't remember that that was what but you're saying that someone came in and said no I'm going to do it to you but I'm going to do it so light that whatever

27:03Jacqueline Novak:yeah yeah she's like yeah it can be damaging if you're doing it really hot and then they brought out the card reader yeah exactly

27:12Kate Berlant:well I haven't done anything yet I don't know I'm having trouble mustering excitement for for skincare at this time. I got to say my untouched, you know, naturally drying hair, fresh out of the ponytail, pretty good. Gorgeous. What is it? It's way leave-in conditioner spritzed into the ends after shampooing. I just shampoo, that's it, and then spritz this into the end. And I comb it getting out of the shower so long I basically have to comb it. Do you ever diffuse?

27:41Jacqueline Novak:I mean, not really. You go natural dry. Natural dry, I really think that is – I let my, because I'm really diffusing. I let my hair dry naturally the other day. And I was like, damn. The reason why I don't do it is that very often I'm rushing to go somewhere. I can't just show up with wet hair.

27:57Kate Berlant:I always show up with wet hair. I think it's one of the classiest looks.

28:01Jacqueline Novak:I actually saw someone. You're never so clean. I was actually very moved by a woman that I just know barely were acquaintances. And I think she's gorgeous between us. And I ran into her at an event. there I am dressed to the nines there she is kind of wet hair she's also like gorgeous and 25 or whatever but I was like whoa the power move of showing up at an event where other people are like done up and you're in you're partially wet hair and like no makeup but again she's like a super model like how much is because I mean again no she was wearing a skirt she was dressed she was wearing like a cute skirt she was wearing like Like a dressed up shoe.

28:45Kate Berlant:I mean, I want to be very clear. I go on stage with wet hair. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I want credit right now as king of showing up with wet hair. Because to me, it's like, I don't know. Men have wet hair a lot and it just dries. It's a very clean look. I mean, hair dries pretty quick. Am I wrong? I think conditioner is one of the biggest lies for my personal hair texture because I haven't used it in years, okay?

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30:58Jacqueline Novak:I was healed by the ocean, went to the ocean the other day. Unbelievable. It's amazing what just a couple dunks in the water restored. Femininity restored.

31:08Kate Berlant:Nothing like it. God, I might have to get into these Scottish waters because, I don't know. There's something about I found the woods here. Have you done the hike, the thing where you go up on that hill? Not this time, up to Arthur's seat. But Chris like runs through a forest up a hill like 10 times here. Like there's some crazy thing he's doing. I could see a restaurant on the top and I can't bring myself to walk up there. Just in a restaurant. Yeah. But he's like – and like all the times that I've gone through parks here or these other parks, these forests here, there's something. When I see the trees here just on the edge, you know, beyond a wall or something, something's up.

31:50Kate Berlant:Okay, I really feel there is something mystical in these Scottish woods. Like, you can feel it. They're thick with fairies is the feeling.

32:02Jacqueline Novak:I believe it.

32:03Kate Berlant:It really feels like it. It's like...

32:06Jacqueline Novak:Oh, thick with fairies.

32:12Kate Berlant:It really does feel like...

32:15Jacqueline Novak:Speaking of just magical little encounters with nature, taking a walk the other night in the neighborhood. There's a guy, two women. I see, wait, what are they holding? Two of them are holding tiny kittens, like sweet little kittens. Not like so little that they look like bugs, like at full kitten status, like tiny, but great. And I'm like, oh my God.

32:37Kate Berlant:They've never looked like bugs to me. I mean, do you mean that negatively or do you just mean like?

32:41Jacqueline Novak:I mean when they're like so little that they can't open their eyes. Like they registered as kittens. Like these were full kittens. and then it turns out, oh, this is our neighbor. He's fostering five kittens. He goes, come on in. We go into his house. He's offering us tea. There are five kittens jumping all over each other, tripping all over each other, jumping on our shoes. Can you believe how cute? Okay. I mean, it just was a magical experience. Okay, I'm listening.

33:07Kate Berlant:And then you each opened two of your own pockets.

33:12Jacqueline Novak:He was like, you sure you don't want a kitten? like you know he's like they're and they were so sweet their their little personalities immediately making themselves evident like oh this is the one that really wants to like jump all over the place completely one who's shy it was like so sweet watching them like bite each other's tails and like i mean it was it was crazy but imagine a neighbor do you want to come in tea we said oh no no no we're just on our walk and sure you don't want any tea he's making up tea Can you believe it? Poison. Poison tea. It's wild.

33:44Kate Berlant:Well, yeah, yeah, of course.

33:47Jacqueline Novak:Oh, I can believe it.

33:50Kate Berlant:What were the kittens?

33:51Jacqueline Novak:What did they look like? Two were kind of gray. Or not kind of gray, gray. And then two were kind of the classic kitten thing of like black and, not black and white, but like the tortoiseshell coloring. Yeah. Abbey look? Yeah.

34:06Kate Berlant:Standard issue cat. they call it sometimes on reddit they're like i just this is my src or whatever there was another standard issue like when it's like this sort of tabby and then there's like the you know i've probably talked about some here but god the community the cat community on reddit it's unbelievable but it's like the void cat or like the black ones void like you know like they all yeah like like like the ones that like like are pitch black like a proper like halloween cat and then the orange brain cell or no no orange ones are like the one brain cells they have all these communities for people like but the joke is like you know they're all domestic short hair i told you that it's like they have different colors they're not actually different breeds really oh just different colors of course you know what i mean they're just like they have different like calico it's just like different fur patterns whatever i mean there are different breeds of cats, but like all these people being like, well, my cat, my cat.

35:01And it's like, I don't know.

35:04Kate Berlant:I'm, I'm half repeating secondary Reddit cat humor, but I got, you know, you know, you go, you go, I'm not going to open the Instagram, but you do. Sometimes you get rewarded. You go, well, thank God they fed me this. And it's just like, like earlier I saw, you know, a scared kitten that an older cat came in and like showed the way. So sweet. It was so scared and it was hissing and the whole thing. And then I watched that. I watched the shit out of that. I know. I can't believe you have foster kittens nearby.

35:38Jacqueline Novak:I need to show you two things. And I want you to show you like a meme that really got me. And I will be posting it. Okay. Maybe I already talked about this on the podcast. Remind me. it said it was a picture of a spider with a tear like an animation like a crude animation of a spider with a tear drops i'll tell you this and it said i'm sorry for scaring you but i did not know that being seen would cost me my life and it oh god fucking tore through me wrecked me i'm looking i was hoping i thought something i found it i found it um this truly fucking wrecked me. I'm texting it to you and we will be posting it.

36:21Jacqueline Novak:Look at this.

36:24Kate Berlant:Oh, okay. It's animated. Sorry. As it was coming into view, I thought I was starting to see the scariest image of a spider I've ever seen and had an authentic reaction to it. All right.

36:36Jacqueline Novak:It fucking really worked on me. I have to say, I don't go out of my way to kill spiders and my loving partner will take them all out of the house. They really don't want to kill them but then yesterday i'm getting into the bath there's a fucking spider in the bath i go you're gonna you're gonna die i know like and i was saying to him sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry but it's like i can't yeah really because you were just like i'm not like i thought you

37:07Kate Berlant:had that thing for for i don't know by the way where the fuck is it it's something that i feel

37:11Jacqueline Novak:got lost in the move. Yes, I have a spider catcher.

37:14Kate Berlant:I just feel like it needs to be 10 feet longer, that tube. I don't want my hand a foot for it. The whole point would be that I'm afraid. We should invent one or produce one or produce an add-on that fits onto that thing. That's the poog long one.

37:32Jacqueline Novak:This is a contraption that I got years ago that I love. It's a bug catcher. Never forget, my friend bought one and he ended up catching a mouse in it. but it's a little there's a little window so you can observe them because i love observing insects but you can put it down snatch it and then you can fling it out the door or whatever but i didn't have if i had it handy i would have done that but i didn't and quite frankly i was naked i was there in the bath and i was like i i can't put the spider on the piece of paper and the one thing from the bathtub to the front door it's not happening yeah that that little illustration.

38:08Jacqueline Novak:No, it's I did not know being, I'm sorry for scaring you, but I did not know being seen would cost me my life. It does the human drama.

38:17Kate Berlant:Yeah, exactly. It's, well, that, yeah, yeah. It's, I mean, the one thing you know, when a mosquito's on you and you slap that feels pretty, pretty much God given. And mosquitoes. Mosquitoes. Sucking your blood. Mosquitoes actually probably the one insect I feel

38:34Jacqueline Novak:like the one it's like I feel no remorse for a mosquito yeah I mean who does which is you know not fair right can spread disease well but I do think given that they carry disease and suck our

38:47Kate Berlant:blood it's like we're just like we're built to swat at them um I don't know so once I start getting into trying to get like a fly out the door from between or between the two window you know the window pane and the screen or something like that and it becomes like i'm involved in this scenario with it i i start to feel like who am i to snuff out its life like who am i to snuff out the the uh you know the fly it's just totally what am i doing i don't know it becomes it becomes like

39:23Jacqueline Novak:there she blows hey speaking of television last night i watched or began to watch and then fell asleep due to the horrible migraine. New Alien series just dropped on FX, Alien Earth. Oh, really? Seems a little fun. Cool. I have to say, it's very top shelf, well-made. I go, the original Alien is one of my favorite movies. And it's the weird moment that we're in culturally where we just cannot imagine a future. Like the Earth, we cannot imagine a future. So we just endlessly reproduce the past.

40:01Kate Berlant:you mean in visions of the future like it looks like the 50s again like that kind of yeah well

40:05Jacqueline Novak:i just mean like all culture now everything's a remake i mean for about for about a million reasons but i mean just oh the only thing we can do is regurgitate the past and that's obviously being mirrored with ai too ai can't create anything new it can only reproduce what's been made or cobble together things that have already been made and that's why it fucking has to be destroyed it's the end of humanity but it's too late we can't destroy it um because people in power don't care anyway the point is but in in the in the show i got a little because they're kind of expertly trying to capture the amazing scene alien of them all around the table and it's you know 70s like but it feels embarrassing to watch it when you love the original because it's like you think i'm this little whore that's just gonna go this reminds it's it's the uncanny valley thing And it's so close to the thing, but because it's not, it's so eerie.

40:57Jacqueline Novak:It becomes so removed. This is not a criticism of the show, and I would love, I'm going to watch more. But I just meant like, it's just such a depressing time to be alive in a few ways. But you know what I mean? I was like, God, they're really, they go, hey, we love Alien. We love that scene in Alien when they're all around the table. Yes, we all love that scene. That's what's so amazing.

41:18Kate Berlant:And really, and literally going to remake it?

41:20Jacqueline Novak:Yes, and we watch that scene and we go, wow. Like, and also when you watch that scene, when you watch that scene in Alien today, you're like, God, now movies, big alien movies, right, are so dumbed down. And so, like, it's just pure comfort cinema. They would never allow a scene to kind of linger in this conversational thing of here are the astronauts or are they astronauts? What would you call them? Yeah. They're in space and they're having, you know, they're like waking up eating Chinese food, smoking cigarettes after being put down for 65 years or whatever. It's like, anyway, I just found it eerie.

41:53Kate Berlant:Well, right, Tanako, we loved it. Why did we love it, right?

41:56Jacqueline Novak:Let's recreate it exactly.

41:58Kate Berlant:Because this was a genre and instead, you know, well, what was it? It was a kind of scene you wouldn't see in this sort of genre thing. Okay, well, what might that look like here? How might we apply that here and do something interesting? Instead it just becomes this bizarro. Replication. You know, reference. Yeah. Yeah. There's no driving intention guiding it with stiff movement.

42:20Jacqueline Novak:It's what we would refer to as authorless. However, it did do a good job, and I will be watching more. Media report. Can't wait to see. I keep calling it Watchers. Weapons. I was trying to see. I really want to see Weapons. But I've been calling it Watchers. What is it called? It's called Weapons. Sorry, I'm jumping. I thought it was called Alien Earth. This is a movie. Alien Earth is a television show on FX. Weapons is a theatrical film. Theatrical release.

42:46Kate Berlant:Yeah, I feel really out of that. Oh, Weapons is Julia. Love Julia, honey. Love Julia. It's going to be good. It's going to be good. I'm just thinking about ordering from Oaxaca tonight.

43:03Jacqueline Novak:This podcast is unbelievable.

43:05Kate Berlant:Cue up the department queue. Well, now it's almost like I'm not saying that I'll never be aiming for, you know, to really turn it on or do entertainment. It's a friend. It's a spectacle of continuation. Yeah, the episodes are a spectacle of commitment and continuation. It's like I'm dying. I'm lying on the floor. I'm in the rock climbing position. Oh, yeah, totally. You know what I'm talking about? You're clean. No, but I love that. Did you get served this? Okay. It was like they were like, do you sleep like this? I do. Is that a problem? That's trauma. Okay. Oh, shit. I know. I know. It's like so is everything, right?

43:50But it's like they're like you can't really relax.

43:52Kate Berlant:Like you're ready to spring.

44:00Kate Berlant:They're like you're ready to.

44:05Kate Berlant:They're like.

44:18Kate Berlant:The idea that now I podcast like this is a game.

44:27Kate Berlant:I make money in the wrong climbing position.

44:31Jacqueline Novak:I can't believe that's really funny. By the way, I'm blanking on the floor. You're a toddler. But that really is funny, sleeping like that, because I do do it. I'm ready to spring. Ready to the predators coming. and so you can, like a frog, leap away.

44:52Right.

44:53Kate Berlant:So that's... Some of the springs are bent. They're in the coil... The muscles are in the coil position. But yeah, it's like that. What else is it?

45:04Jacqueline Novak:Well, I sleep like this sometimes. Yeah, but that's not... On your back. Compared for the muslim. I sleep arms crossed sometimes. This really does feel good to me.

45:15Kate Berlant:Oh, I tried. I tried. Did I try that last night? But then it went to the point of my eyes hurting, doing the thing.

45:22Jacqueline Novak:Oh, my God. So I've been doing it and it fucking works for me. I did it the other night and it almost made me nauseous. Like it felt weird. How long? I was like.

45:30Kate Berlant:Yeah, kind of. It's kind of uncomfortable. Yeah, it kind of has that. Yeah. It's right, left, up, down, round and around.

45:39Jacqueline Novak:Don't go too fast, though. It's up, down, left, right. and then in a circle up, right? And then you cross your eyes.

45:46Kate Berlant:Yeah. Wait, it's only one circle? I thought it was clockwise, counterclockwise.

45:50Jacqueline Novak:I heard one circle, but who knows? Maybe it's both.

45:54Kate Berlant:I was just thinking if... People have been saying it works. It's sort of magic, okay? Magic of consciousness. We were to create our own arbitrary set of movements, okay? And get people doing it while going to sleep. Totally.

46:10Jacqueline Novak:To connect with the group. Okay. I don't remember. You didn't listen to telepathy tapes because you were a debunker? Are you? Well, I don't remember. Did you listen to it? How dare you?

46:22Kate Berlant:No. Remember, I was frustrated because, well, first of all, I started to, and then I was reading a Reddit about it before I started, and I got frustrated because, so listen, I'm like, they're going to come for, like, this is, I'm like, this is, I completely believe it's real. And I'm frustrated that it really seemed like I'm hearing this sort of – I'm hearing this like – and so I brought along my, you know, like my camera guy who's really skeptical. Like – and I'm like, you're making the effort to document this, okay? And you're like not bringing in even a single person other than your skeptical friend to maybe put in place certain things that would make it really – demonstrate it.

47:10Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, yeah. You've got to keep going, Jacqueline, because Jacqueline, you're going to be weeping. When you get to episode 9, you're going to be weeping.

47:18Kate Berlant:Yeah. No, it's just, I want it, I believe it, I was reading accounts, it was just moving really slow, and I was frustrated and hearing it secondhand, and I just wanted the videos, and I don't know, so it was like, maybe I'll push through, but I was hungry.

47:32Jacqueline Novak:Yeah, well, I made a reference to the, that's what, I said the hill. We'll meet on the hill. That's a telepathy tapes reference.

47:43Kate Berlant:Well... This is monstrous. What?

47:48Jacqueline Novak:You going?

47:50Kate Berlant:You going? I was going to say pushing the astral realm on the audience members. I don't want to get too into it.

48:00Jacqueline Novak:Jacqueline, speaking of Product Corner, an eyebrow. item that I purchased and a certain eyebrow product that you referenced. I purchased it and I'm liking it. I think I already talked about this on last week's episode. It's serious, right? Yeah. I'm obsessed.

48:19Kate Berlant:I'm obsessed. I'm thinking that for Product Corner today, I can tell you about the five most recommended cameras for vloggers. Hey. All right, sell us on your product corner because I've got to think.

48:37Jacqueline Novak:I've got a couple makeup items that I've really been enjoying for the eyes. I have a new mascara that I'm enjoying. We all know how I've been really obsessed with the tubing mascara. Now I have a more daytime, casual look mascara. The tubing mascara, I'm realizing, really is for stage, things like that. Wow. And I've got a makeup brand I've never used before, and I have to say I'm enjoying some of the items. Really?

49:04Kate Berlant:Someone was going to send us something. Well, that's the brand. I haven't gotten through that. I'd be curious if you haven't received from them yet. All right, we'll talk about the product corner because I got to give them my requests. I mean, I don't think they're going to ship to Scotland.

49:16Jacqueline Novak:You might have to wait until you're back on American soil. Yeah. Okay, well, with that, love ya.

49:21Kate Berlant:Love ya. And, you know, thanks, folks. Look, I know that, you know, I'm stomach on the floor in a blanket like a toddler. And I'm diminished. I've been diminished for years. Okay. But that's part of the journalism here. All right. I'll see you in product corner. Okay. Love you. Love you.